Don't Let Your Financial Dreams Turn Into a Nightmare!

welcome to the dave ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john dolone ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host here on the air today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life because dr john's here are you talking about your money cause i'm here and i'll interrupt him anyway because i own the show that's how it works that's how our that's how our little interaction works that's how most of my life works at home my wife owns that i was gonna say i'm always interrupting you what is that you own this part so it's good okay well everybody's gotta have a gift that's right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five let's start with cameron in los angeles hi cameron welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave thanks for having me on i really appreciate it you too how can we help well i'm new to your plan um i just found it uh maybe a month ago and um you know i'm in serious amount of debt uh right now i have a total of 745 000 worth of debt and um you know i'm really really anxious to get out of it you know made some mistakes and uh i didn't even realize that you know i was making them but after hearing your show you know i really think that you know i want to get my life you know straightened out and uh you know i want to aim for financial freedom okay um what kind of debt do you have so um i have it all broken down well i have a home and it's 525 000. i feel better already for real i just exhaled i was afraid you had 745 000 student loan debt or something i didn't know what to tell you okay but yeah 525 000 on the home what's that home worth by the way so right now it's about seven we're worth about 700. okay cool all right and what's the other 220 thousand i have uh 150 in student loans i have you're gonna get set but i have 20 in timeshare and um 30 personal loan 10 in car and 10 in credit card okay all right and who's the person loaned to a bank uh yeah okay all right and are you a doctor or a lawyer uh neither a nurse practitioner no oh no that's good okay all right i thought i thought with that student loan bill there may be something involved here so what are you making so right now i make a hundred and thirty-five thousand good news and you're what twenty-eight [Music] 150 to 180 in the next year excellent excellent okay good well you're not afraid of work that's good news all right are you married no okay cool so uh what is it you want to accomplish here i um i just you know i made a lot i made a lot of mistakes and i kind of just want you know the best way to get on track you know um i'm the first in my family to you know to ever graduate college and even have you know some level of success with money and you know i want to make sure i change you know my family's tree so well congratulations that's awesome that was a bad note and i want to just fix it it's a wonderful start good for you it's awesome man oh well the the the the bad news is there's a mess uh the good news is that the hole that you're in uh compared to the shovel that you have 130 to 180 income is uh this is very doable okay uh so it just depends on how quickly you want to do this and how deeply you want to sacrifice obviously the more deeply you sacrifice the quicker you'll get out does that make sense yes because we'll use more of your income to clean up the mess the more deeply you sacrifice and or you sell that house and you've gotten rid of most of it so not suggesting you do that but i'm just saying those are sacrifices no life no house but the debts all gone and you start fresh and you could do that pretty quick i i don't think i would in your case i think i would if i were in your shoes i'd hold on to the house and let's uh plow through 220 000 worth of debt making 150 to 200. um let's just play with some numbers if you put 50 000 on it uh or 75 000 on it it takes you three years which is 2 000 bucks a month no it's not i wish it was two thousand bucks a month it's not even close yeah it's way more than six thousand bucks a month thank you but um anyway yeah if you do that that's 75 000 a year you'll be debt free in three years translation you have absolutely no life you're working so many overtime shifts your eyes are crossing you are living on beans and rice rice and beans you are not going on vacation and you're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there's your extra job which you shouldn't do as a nurse practitioner you ought to be nursing as your second job okay i can do that i can do that i kind of think you can i know you can i think you're the guy because did you follow the math with me 75 times three is two and a quarter yes yeah but 75 000 bucks 6 000 bucks a month out of your income means you're working extra and you are living on nothing and you're going to list these debts smallest to largest and you're going to attack them with a vengeance in your community who has seen you as the guy that got out the first guy to go to college the first guy to get the big fancy job the guy that works in the hospital is not gonna understand why you're driving a crummy car and working on the weekends they're not gonna understand why you're not picking up the tab and that's why they're broke and this is the this is the gut-wrenching moment when you change the family tree with the hard hard stuff now honestly cameron the the people that have done this stuff that we've worked with over 30 years the ones that are the most successful care the least about what other people think caring what other people think it will kill you on this so if broke people are making fun of your financial plan you're always on track okay i really appreciate it so really quick you you don't think i should get rid of the house not unless you have to if you if you can if you can lean into it for three years if you if you want to move anyway okay that's fine but if you want to hold on to a piece of california real estate which is not a bad idea and you want to lean into this and bust it then i think you can keep the house and still be done in three years or sooner if i thought it was going to take you 10 years i'd sell the house okay but the math says it's not if cameron says he can do it and it's all up to cameron now but we'll help you we have a thing called ramsay plus and we're going to give you a one-year subscription to that and that puts you into the financial peace university class it puts you into the every dollar premium version of the budgeting app it puts you into the baby steps tracker it connects you up with all the tools like the death snowball tool it connects you with everything you need to be able to move to the next level and to cause all this to happen including community and coaches and everything else i'm going to give it to you because i just want to start this hour that way and you are on i think he's going i'm just going man he's going to do it i know he's doing it call me back give me that free scream man i'm smiling brother i love it three years from now i'll be sitting here waiting on you hold on kelly i'll pick up we'll get you signed up [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings [Music] so have you ever seen the movie trapped in new york it's not a real movie but it's really happening and we should be filming it right now uh anthony o'neil's been up there six days in quarantine in order to get to do the ryan and kelly show i've been hassling and he is a man he's stuck in a hotel room so we wanted to call and harass him a little bit because he got to be going stir crazy anthony how are you are you making it dave john man i'm i'm barely making it i'm not gonna lie i'm ready to get home are you ordering room service just to see people i really am and i'm looking out the window looking at cars driving by and i'm waving up top so but it's good though this is new york city they don't wave back yeah exactly they really don't they really don't they're looking up and laughing at me to be honest they just they just sent out a bulletin saying strange person waving to others up there this is so on new york man oh man so um seriously you is your dr john's here is your mental health okay having been trapped in a room by yourself for six days anthony i'll go ahead and tell him so he's been texting me while he's gone dave he's not doing good he is not unraveling right in front of us no man i'm i'm all right i'm making it i'm making it but it is boring uh and i miss the family though but hey we're here to help people so i'm good i'll sacrifice for the people if it wasn't for our people days i would not have done it i told my wife that uh my friend anthony was gonna have to spend six days by himself in a hotel and she just paused and said i can think of no greater heaven six days without me and the kids in a hotel in new york but yeah thanks for taking one for the team anthony yeah you're very bad you did something the rest of us were willing to do um so uh uh alex gave a great introduction during staff meeting this morning on the new podcast coming out and uh we need to let everybody know that anthony o'neil has a brand new podcast as of today right yes sir yes sir it's a drop zone apple spotify pandora and it's still on youtube as well but uh it's it's the new uh podcast right here on the ramsay network uh the table with anthony o'neill feels so weird to say anthony'll know what i'm anthony but yeah it's the table with anthony o'neil it's going to be a great great podcast day so what is the i know but i'll give you the underhand pitch why is it named the table well it's named the table because actually you know our tribe called it a table but i really wanted to make a place in a space where people can feel comfortable to come and have a real relevant and relatable conversation uh when it comes to dealing with our finances when it comes to building healthy relationships when it just comes to life in general you know you think of the table are you thinking about coming somewhere you having something to eat and you're just having a good time you just get comfortable at the table you just talk and and you listen and you laugh and sometimes you may cry and sometimes you may argue and so i wanted people to know like hey hey here at the table we're gonna have some rough conversations but we're gonna also have some life transformation conversations especially around finances relationships and just building true success yeah how to become how to have a quality well-rounded successful life and really i think this kind of was i guess it was expanded uh maybe it was born a little bit all on the subject of racism and uh i mean we you use that platform to have some uh difficult conversations during a time that everybody needed a place to talk right yeah we did we did we did um it was last february uh when we launched the black history panel and it was just so great because it it it pretty much burst out of that and so we just kept the table uh going from there and dave you know we're bringing that actually back uh next week uh the uh black history piano it's a special edition of the table and i'm really excited about that i'll be on the podcast shopping monday through friday next week on podcast and on my youtube channel so we're going back to where it birthed where it started uh but man it's there's the conversation from there though is just so much more than just racism but it's really just about how do we build a true successful life here's what i learned dave a lot of young people want to be successful but they don't know where to start and how to make their dreams become a reality so i literally uh created a space where i can walk them through that entire process john's been on the show dave hasn't been on the show yet uh but he'll be on next month so i'm well not next month he hasn't been in the first quarter been on my show either anthony don't take it personally you know well it's you know there is this thing you have to be invited oh here we go so here we go you two stop your bonding i don't walk into your room with my buddy boots on besides that i mean what are you gonna call it the boomer edition i mean come on i love it remember no dave you're on i've already gone with uh your assistant and you're already scheduled for a day so i'm looking forward to it because i want to introduce uh you know our tribe over there in the ao circle just um the cool uh honest transparent fun cool relatable dave so i'd like to hang out i'd like to meet that guy too so i'll be listening to that episode anthony that'll be good if we run into him we'll send him right over we'll send him over that's right yeah this is gonna be great it's gonna be great because the types of people you've had on on the youtube version of this uh you know ian kron talking about uh the enneagram the uh anti-f downs has been on matthew mcconaughey's been on i mean lots of quality folks have been on just to lead anyone that's willing to watch or listen to the table on podcast or youtube to give them a better road map for their life yeah yeah yeah dave and it's so funny today when we launched the podcast matthew mcconaughey is on there and he's talking about three key things that has helped him build his wealth and has helped him build his success in the acting career and the man is he's just getting straight down and being very real so i would encourage everyone to get the podcast and listen to the podcast and i got to say this when you come to the ao uh the table with anthony o'neil you're going to learn how to build wealth and develop strong relationships and find out how to have the hard conversations and get advice you need to be successful around your finances and mental health so i would encourage you it's going to be a fun conversation but i promise you you will walk away with something that you can apply today that will change your future but you all know me the caliber of our future is determined by the choices you make today and you're going to make the right choice by subscribing to the podcast because together we're going to grow and go further along in our journey anthony o'neil it's called the table check it out on all podcast locations as well as youtube and john when anthony comes back you've got to debrief him and make sure he's okay he's a mental health standpoint after having been trapped in a room by himself for six days listen there's a limit to what i'm able to do there are practicing professionals that he's gonna have to sit with it's gonna be a minute i subscribed this morning um personally i uh obviously you're one of my close friends here but i can't wait to to dig in and listen to this myself and i'm i'm grateful for you man it's going to be super successful you can help a lot a lot of people yeah you will i'm so proud of you sir very well done looking forward to big things yes i appreciate you and john all right anthony o'neil ladies and gentlemen you can check him out at anthony o'neil dot com of course uh one of our ramsey personalities has had multiple best sellers had a number one with a debt-free degree and of course destroy your student loan debt as a follow-up that we did from that he's done all of that stuff you've been preaching about student loans for years and years helping people with that and so this is going to be amazing this this guy is really caught a stride he's he's in a zone you know it in this world we get to meet a lot of quote unquote influencers and people who are so excited to see their name in shiny lights and that drives me bananas to be honest with you and it makes your heart swell when you meet somebody like anthony that behind closed doors is so passionate not about having his name look shiny but about helping young people helping new adults helping folks who are making that transition from 20 to 30 30 to 40 not have to walk in that walk that he did that if you cannot sleep in your car man if you cannot have train wreck relationships that's he's so passionate about it and so the the influencer part is just simply a vehicle for him to help other people and he loves it man and that's just that's just me talking about my friend and so i love how this thing is taking off and i love how successful he's been how authentic he's being it's just it's it's awesome just to get to sit by it and watch him yep absolutely he's doing really really good work i agree anthony o'neil be sure and check out the table spotify uh itunes google anywhere where you're picking up podcasts you can get them there and of course the youtube version has been there for a while and we'll continue to add it'll be the same exact content only you can watch it for those of you that are youtubers and um he's got quite a following there oh man vastly popular so this is the dave ramsey show [Music] so [Music] you know health care has gotten to be ridiculous it puts people um you know on the brink and so it would have put us on the brink had we not had chm chm saved our life same problem financial lives christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget-friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians learn more today and check us out at ch ministries.org that's chministries.org [Music] dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the dave ramsey show open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five adrian is with us in long beach hi adrian welcome to the dave ramsey show hey dave how you doing thanks for taking my call better than i deserve how can we help um so my wife and i started the financial piece this month yay we're currently on baby step one which we have about five hundred dollars at a boy um but we want some advice on what we should do with our vehicles um currently i make around 35 000 a year my wife makes 52. um we have 110 000 in debt and the vehicles we currently own my wife's vehicle is 24 000. my vehicle is a lease which has uh 22 000 left and i'm already over mileage and i just don't know what to do here i kind of want to get rid of them i just don't know what to do okay all right well the rule of thumb that we use on cars is two things if you like them and want to keep them the only way you would want to keep them mathematically is if they total up to less than half your annual income which these two barely do but they're right around it uh and you can be debt-free not counting your house without selling them in two years or less and that's questionable here so both of those things point to selling one or both of these cars and it sounds like the one you're fleecing is the biggest mess of the two so if we're going to start we'd start with that one probably right yeah that kind of sounds like the conclusion you'd already come to yeah and i was thinking about it's just i don't know i was just a little confused because i don't know how to sell it if i wanted to sell it should i just buy it outright no and then well you have to you have to buy it outright and sell it simultaneously here's how you do it okay there's a couple of numbers you've got to gather up to figure out what to do number one who who's the car fleeced from who's the fleece with taylor who tell you that toyota toyota i'm sorry i'm definitely supposed okay toyota all right and so you're going to call toyota motor credit and say uh here's my account number what is the early buyout on the fleece if i want to pay it off today and you send me the title okay so on it's like having the payoff on your loan if you had a loan but that's not what it's called on a fleece okay now it should be at the end of your lease there is a figure that you can buy the car for after the lease is over and you have your remaining payments if you add your remaining payments to that figure at the end of the lease that's your total exposure on this car and the early buyout should be less than that by a lit by a couple thousand bucks anyway a few thousand dollars so how much is left on the fleece how much before it's over uh it's 22 000. no how many months uh i got one more year left february of next year okay so you have so 22 000 includes the that you've gotten the early buyout it sounds like well i looked up on my you know on my account it says 22 000 left on below okay no that's not the number i'm looking for all right you got to call them and you got to get the early buy out okay because that number that number is the number i'm talking about it's the total of all your payments remaining plus your buyout at the end how much is your payment okay it's about uh 400 yeah okay and so you got like 5 000 bucks of those plus you got a 17 000 buyout at the end it sounds like does that sound about right okay great okay and so anyway let's pretend that when you call them it's 20 000 for the early buyout that's probably not going to be that far off somewhere in that range okay then you look up on kelly blue book and find out what the car is worth private sale have you done that yet yes and it's about 21 000. good okay so you can sell it and pay them off and get out basically about even right right that's awesome and then we've just got to get you a thousand or a 1500 car that you pay cash for and we're gonna drive that hooptie for a little while while you get yourself out of debt now we're gonna do the same thing with her car if we can't get you moving and get you out of debt okay either one of you got overtime available yes what do you do to make 35 grand uh i'm an estimator and a construction company okay so what are you going to do for extra income i was thinking of starting maybe a side business doing some power washing i love it you know i have that uh all the equipment here at the office and they tell me i can use it freely so that's what i'm talking about there you go you're the man right there man you can double your dead gum income that's right yeah and you're gonna yeah that's a ton that's awesome yeah there you go and now we're gonna put you on on a budget and you guys aren't going out to eat and you're not going on vacation we're gonna list these debts smallest to largest we're gonna attack these debts in like a vengeance and uh so now we've got like eighty thousand dollars i'm sorry ninety thousand dollars of debt left after we get rid of your car and if we do 45 a year for two years out of 87 you're debt-free in two years right awesome and i think that's i think that's doable but it's going to require extreme focus and concentration and no one takes your eye off the ball and lots of lots of saturdays and sundays starting early power washing power washing until it gets dark getting up and doing it again sounds good the next two years are power washing that's your that's and then after that you're going to hate power washing for the rest of your life of the california water crisis my friend [Laughter] single-handedly yeah that's right but they will be shiny and clean right everybody's gonna be clean there's not gonna be any mold or mildew no i love it well done yeah hang on man i'm gonna get also put you into ramsay plus because you need to be in there going through financial peace university he said he was already in it no he just uh just started the just i think got got word of it okay if he's not already in it put him in it as my guest we're gonna take care of him eric is with us in cincinnati just giving everybody stuff hey eric what's up man hey thanks for taking my call today sure how can we help uh well i need your permission on buying a vehicle no you don't buy my dave car no you don't i'll give you an opinion but you don't need my permission you're a grown person yeah yeah i hear ya so um i'll give you my stats i'm on four five and six um and i i think i'm in the right place to purchase this vehicle i don't wanna buy a new one i wanna buy a toyota tacoma and i don't want to buy a new but i want to buy it like two or three years old and so um that's what i'm thinking about doing i've got the cash to do it um what's it called my i'm looking to spend about 25 to are you married yes what's her car cost um well she is a business car through her work so she doesn't have a car in her name the business gives her a car correct okay yes all right and what's your household income uh about 115. okay and you have your emergency fund in place and you're out of debt except your house correct yes i'd buy it okay it's a good truck all right i just wanted to make sure i wasn't like overstepping or uh do you know how i did that all right i think how you did it was that it's less i have less than half my household income in in things that depreciate value there you go right yep you're paying cash okay yeah and you have your emergency fund in place so it's not an emergency you buy a taco but tacos are great trucks my wife uh she likes to have an emergency to the emergency fund i like her yeah and so she's very much like yours and so i'm just trying to figure out we would be dipping into the emergency of the emergency fund [Laughter] hey eric you're a smart guy and you clearly have worked together with your wife to to get an emergency fund get out of debt do all the stuff the right way trust your instincts and trust the math man you guys are doing good stuff very well done very well done tacos are good trucks got a couple of them in the ramsey family this is the dave ramsey show [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal all right today's question comes from joshua in indiana joshua asks how can i start to rebuild my relationship with my son after being absent for a long time after years of fighting with his mom she got custody and was able to move 16 hours away i'm trying to learn to slowly rebuild the trust with him and start moving forward what is the best way to start man there's a lot here i'd want to know how old this kid is and for some reason she was allowed to move 16 hours away so i want to know what your what trust you're rebuilding from but at the end of the day dave i think it starts with contact and intentionality and being accountable to yourself what does that mean that means i'm gonna call on the same at the same time every week that means i'm gonna facetime at the same time every week and no matter what i'm not gonna miss that i'm gonna save my money and come to a basketball game if i can i'm gonna write handwritten letters so he's got a legacy of me reaching out and when i say i'm gonna do something i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna be real intentional about being in that young boy's life but this is the key here man is you're playing a long game now joshua um you're not gonna fix this in six months i can fix this in two years this is one of those things that you want your son to know that you were relentless in pursuing him when he turns 25 and when he turns 27 and um that's hard and we don't know what all happened here obviously um my tendency and i think i'm gonna guess and call it a human tendency would be to um want to tell my part of the story and that's probably not useful it's almost never ever useful um because most of us want i want to defend myself there you go you know and i want him to like take my side kind of right i think that's kind of a human thing and most of the time in these situations that's a counterproductive isn't it right that's it unless one day joshua is old enough to process it and that's not 21 or 25. well and and that's not him asking in the first conversation what happened and you go well you just don't know about your mother absolutely not and and you do whatever you can to stay neutral or be positive about mom but when parents start running each other down to try to look better in the eyes of their children they're seeking approval from children right and a child can't carry that weight they can't carry the complexity of my dad's a good guy and does things that i don't approve of or i don't like at the same time it takes most of us until until we're adults until we're parents before we realize just how hard it is to be to be a grown-up to be an adult right and there's things i love love love love about my old man and there's things i'm doing differently with my kid and that all is in the same package all the same guy and i love it all but that's also part of the human condition i didn't understand i don't think there's ever been a human that goes i want to do it exactly like they do if you do whoa that's strange you should see somebody too right yeah exactly but yeah dave telling yourself the story doesn't help um almost never unless there's just some abuse mom is very sick and in these situations it's rare that someone is sick or abusive and gets to move 16 hours away yeah right yeah that would be unusual and joshua if it's appropriate here start the conversation with i'm sorry or your daddy messed up and um he's working as hard as he can to show you that he loves you and teaching humility teaching vulnerability is a big thing for dads yeah the um yeah there's how do you rebuild trust in any situation where your spouse doesn't trust you with money i get that one a lot yup uh because i messed up i overspent and i had credit cards and and now 10 years later i'm still not allowed to touch the money because she won't trust me or he won't trust me you know well how do you rebuild trust you first have to be worthy of trust that's called trust worthy right and that's what you were talking about early in this discussion here which is the steadiness the consistency keeps showing the predictability part of tr when you if you if you um want to step out on the ice do you trust the ice what you're asking is is it predictable right will it can i count on it right is it going to crack and i'm going to fall through or is it solid enough ice that i can step out on it and not end up in the river and so you know the trust is about predictability consistency um it's a type of integrity the word integrity is where we get our word integer or it comes from the same word we get the word integer from which is any whole number no fractions i like that and so for you for your math nerds but yeah integrity is wholeness and it's like so you can't be uh one person on sunday and two people own uh i mean another person on monday another person on friday night there you go uh that's that's fractured right it's not worthy of trust that whole there's no hole but the challenge here is you can't hold the outcome he could theoretically show up and be a great father from here to kingdom come and this young child may never come around he can't hold that there's a point when somebody commits um financial infidelity and ten years later it's not their problem anymore their partner needs a heart change their wife needs to grow up their husband needs to put that nonsense down right and um you can't hold that outcome you've got to continue to be a person of integrity for you you got to keep leaning in and leaning in and doing it and doing it and doing it you can't control what they can do that's right and once you start chasing their approval that's when you get yourself in trouble you overspend you do these weird big presents and weird big trips trying to win approval from a child can't do it man you know i i just a friend of mine recommended a movie that apparently everybody's seen but me what's that warrior oh it's yeah it's good it's right on right on this subject that's my mma world man that's yeah that's good mm-hmm stuff that's man i watched it the other night it's very much this subject yeah very much the subject well acted well written too and it's a beautiful story of brotherhood and redemption and sort of i wept wept that's right it's kind of a modern day rocky but yeah except better and um yeah it was really good but i thought that you know nick nolte probably did need an oscar or something like that that was pretty freaking crap it's an old movie though was it like 2011 yeah it's it's been out for a minute i guess i'm just the last of the party but i got there so yeah but it's the same thing this idea that that you can't just show back up and it's all okay like nothing happened it's all good that's right but that doesn't mean you don't show up right because the showing up heals you from the inside out right and you keep showing up and you keep showing up and there's that beautiful moment when he falls off the wagon and his son's there his son knows right you keep showing up man and redemption may not look like the fantasy picture you have and there's no there's no soundtrack that swells and there's no people cheering for you but redemption almost always comes it just looks different than we think it's going and it's it's like a lot of things like a lot of healing it's messy yeah oh it's a mess because there's wounds yeah there's just trash cans full of gauze over there in the corner it's a mess it's gross but it doesn't mean it's not the right thing yeah yeah healing hurts everybody but so john nothing else joshua there's just we know the data there's millions of dads who don't even ask this question mom moves 16 hours away and they give up they cash in and they sit there and lift their wounds and they chase whatever addiction is gonna numb that hurt that son's gone and wife's gone and kudos to you for saying i i don't want to be that guy i want to rebuild and what can i own here man i'll tell you you can own almost all of it and just get to work being a dad's heart dave yeah it it it is and you know meg meeker does a lot of really good writing on this strong father strong daughters and uh hero dads and her her books and materials on the power of father even being absent i'm reading his line here for a long time still showing up well christy wright's story yeah chris he's got a great redemption story yeah on this on this process and it's just it's a powerful uh thing and uh it needs to happen so yeah i commend you i'm with john on this joshua i commend you on doing that but i think it's good to remember whether it's in business or working with an audience um you guys relationship with us that are out there are we worthy of trust are we consistent um you know i get one of my biggest criticisms is you know dave you're one track you know you one trick pony you don't have but one thing to say over and over and over and i go yeah yep but i always say the same thing that's right you can count on it yeah i would never violate never violate it because just one time it'll make the front page of the paper oh man just one time you're inconsistent in someone's mind they're begging for a reason to to to carve you out right to cancel you in the cancer culture just begging for a reason this is the dave ramsey show [Music] [Music] welcome to the dave ramsey show you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status of symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money you jump in we'll talk about your life we'd love to have you dr john deloney is my co-host today ramsey personality best-selling author of the book redefining anxiety you can call here at triple eight eight two five five two two five and we will talk adam is in cincinnati hi adam welcome to the dave ramsey show hey good afternoon thanks for taking my call sure what's up uh my wife and i recently finished painting overhead except for our home and i am blessed to get a seven and a half percent match on my 401k for my employer wonderful when i'm calculating uh saving for retirement do i do 15 excluding that match yes okay and then should i put all of it into that or should i only put in to get the maximum match and then put the rest in a separate account well uh the rule we use is we call it kind of rock paper scissors except it only works one way and uh that is match is best so for sure the first seven and a half we're doing right uh well i have to do five percent to get seven and a half you have to put in how much five percent okay then the first five percent is a no-brainer okay we're gonna do the match first then we're gonna do roth now they offer your 401 k in a roth i'll have to check i doubt it because we have a big company that we go through third party so i doubt it i think it's just a slate of index funds that we can choose to invest in who do you work for it's a company or a large what it's a large company well most third parties are offering most third parties are offering roth i mean if they're with like if they're like with fidelity or they're with a tiaa or they're with uh whoever most of those would have a roth available if your company chose not to offer it that would be what's unusual okay so let's pretend both ways and then you'll have your answer okay number one we're gonna take the match the second thing is we're gonna take roth because the best thing is double your money in your case more than double your money five to seven and a half the next best thing is tax-free growth and the next best thing is the traditional which is tax deferred growth you don't pay taxes on the money and you get to grow money with what is going to be taxes someday and so that's your last mathematical choice but none of them are horrible choices so we're going to take your five percent match and then we're going to do a roth now we if your company offers it and you have good options and you want to do it all there that's fine if you want to do a roth out as an individual roth for you and your wife you can just get in touch with one of our smartvestor pros and sit down with them they can help you select the types of mutual funds we pick growth growth and income aggressive growth and international spreading it across those four evenly but then if you've maxed out roth and you still haven't gotten to you putting in 15 let's say for instance your company does not have a roth and you go do a couple of roths individually and that plus your five percent is still not 15 then you'd go back and do some non-matching traditional in your original 401k so dave i've worked at multiple places over the course of my career and every place is different when it comes to match what is a when a company's thinking through what the match is why does it vary so much is it is it a matter of how much money the company has or is it we're gonna we pay a little bit higher salaries here so we match a little bit lower here or what's the thinking it can be anything uh obviously well not not necessarily in most cases the match is vested instantly okay meaning that if you leave it goes with you right okay very unusual for it to not be uh the second thing then is um you you're using the match to not only be generous to the team but uh in some cases in most cases somebody wants it to give you a reason to stay it's a it's a it's like consciousness it's like being paid well okay it gives you a reason to stay i get paid well here so i want to stay here right and so i got this great match it's it's a bit of a golden handcuffs thing right i wouldn't want to give up this match and so you know if i'm going to give this job up i'm going to give that match up and oh boy yeah you know but if they go well they don't match anyway and then put match over here so it's a competitive thing for hiring or retaining team members uh it's a way to be generous um when i see a seven percent match that makes me think something whether they're being super generous on the back end or they may compress salaries a little bit over here or maybe i'm just a cynical guy there or maybe they're trying to make it hard for you to leave yeah seven and a half is unusual that's high i've never heard that well i've seen 10 i've seen up to 15. i had an eight one yeah i did but but it's an unusual number it's usually five or three right right and most of them are 78 of the companies match right now okay something so not matching anything leaves you at a disadvantage from the standpoint of hiring or retaining to other employers who do so that's it's a competitive advantage so to speak um but but probably it's a huge company i'll give you a guess okay uh 10 15 years ago or more they did away with their old pension plan uh okay and they converted the money that they used to dump into that and they moved everybody out and a bunch of people were pissed they moved them all into 401ks and so they just did the math and it came out seven and a half and they left it and they just did it even if you're not putting in seven and a half that's what that's a real unusual thing there they're given a match that's higher than what he puts in right that's very unusual yeah i hardly ever say that's just a free two and a half percent then yeah that's uh uh very unusual so it has something to do with something else that's well that's what i'm wondering probably and i've never been a ceo of my own company that way so but if you you know the old-fashioned pension plans like when i started the show 20 years ago there were a lot more pension plans there were 401 cases and every year they just kept dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping it because people started getting on the 10k well they're very yeah yeah very expensive and the 401k you control your destiny yeah the the team member controls their own destiny they can become a millionaire and lots of people have with their 401ks um and just steadily investing and you take it with you when you leave you roll it to an ira when you leave it's yours you don't have the pensions got all these rules on it and you know do i buy more years do i wait until i you know do i will i'm 62 or 63 and a half or all this crap and nuanced stuff you have to get into with a pension the 401k is just real clean real simple the cost to the company is two things whatever you match and the cost of the administration which with a thousand employees here our administrative bill is you know it's just south of a hundred thousand dollars a year yeah just to keep up with the dadgum regulations you know but but uh and that's money that just you know goes out to quote professionals right to do this stuff and you know i'm not mad at them or anything but that's all based on federal regulations scared death somebody's gonna screw somebody yeah with a 401k uh and and so that's money that doesn't go into our team's account uh but we've got a match here and uh for a long time when we first started our match didn't start until you'd been here a year yep because we wanted to make sure you're here before we start giving you money you know extra money and so it was more like a long-term team member thing now we started now at 90 days after everything else we started immediately or whenever when's your start remember i don't remember right i don't remember this first day or 90 days but like all our other benefits are set up same way so but as we've gotten bigger and have a little more money yes we've relaxed some of that good questions this is the dave ramsey [Music] show [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] folks it's an honor to tell you about the army national guard not only are they big supporters of our high school curriculum but they also give you the opportunity to impact your local communities whether your goals are to get an education serve your country or have a better life the army national guard can help get you there plus they offer unbelievable financial benefits secure your future today visit nationalguard.com to find out more [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] dr john dolone ramsay personality is my co-host today this is the dave ramsey show do you feel like you'll never save enough money or pay off all your debt and if you're a year like 2020 most of america feels that way but money should not be one more thing you have to worry about and that's why in 2020 we are hitting reset because no matter what's happening in this crazy butt world you can take control of your money you just need the right plan ramsey plus is our step-by-step plan that helps you get quick wins so you can make real progress on your debt because once you get all your debt out of your life you get your money back and you can be more generous and invest and become wealthy that means you can finally start spending and saving money without worry and get the security that you need right now so here's our challenge decide on a total money reset this year then start ramsey plus commit to working hard the first 90 days watch all those small daily wins we will show you exactly what to do the first 90 days turn into lifelong habits so you never feel out of control again you can get a free trial at ramsey plus for free just by going to daveramsey.com reset daveramsey.com reset nick is with us in greenville south carolina hi nick welcome to the dave ramsey show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up well four years ago i got stupid saw chapter 13. uh moved in with my sister she kicked me out in july so i came home once no ain't no big deal man the dog jump in the truck well i made the last payment on that chapter 13 today and then can i tell them they can have this truck you made the last payment on the chapter 13 today you're living in your truck what kind of truck you talking about a semi yes sir okay so you're driving over the road yes sir and i'm so tired of this okay now i do have the va so you know i don't really need like the down payment or anything i'm just curious you know i know it's not gonna i don't know did is was the truck did you have it financed in the 13 oh no sir no sir i'm a company driver i'm not an owner operator oh it's not your truck no sir okay all right so you're just you're just you and the dog are living over the road and you're sick of the road and you finally got your 13 closed up so all your bills are behind you yes sir i mean i'm debt-free i just don't have a house yeah so what are you going to do for a living if you come off the road i don't know if i may i may go back to running a city or find something completely different okay cool what do you make now about 60. do you have any debt at all um no sir okay do you have any money um after today no okay i don't think i got million dollars you're done and you're done so you're going to be driving a little while longer agreed yes sir yeah i mean i'm not trying to jump out of it today i mean i'm just looking realistically how long am i looking at because 20 years is too long i got you i got you we need a better plan this this one doesn't this one doesn't scale well i got you and i and i agree with you by the way how old are you 22 cool you're obviously single yes sir okay all right what i would do is rent before you buy i wouldn't worry about buying today because with the chapter 13 it's just obviously messed up your credit you file bankruptcy um and yeah you can get in on the va and they'll be more lenient on that but i wouldn't today um instead i if i were in your shoes i would say all right if i drive x number of months let's just pick out you pick out a number and i you what let's call it six months i'm gonna drive for six more months and i'm gonna pile up uh ten thousand dollars okay okay i'm just making this up whatever the numbers work out you you decide if it's eight months fine if it's five months fine i don't care and if it's not ten thousand dollars if it's eight thousand dollars that's fine but you need a little nest egg between you and life because life's been kicking your teeth in for a while okay yeah a little pad like ten thousand dollars would make you walk a little more uh a little strut a little more rather than walk right yes sir okay uh and then i would just get me an inexpensive one-bedroom apartment rental and get me an inexpensive two thousand dollar car that i pay cash for and i would line up a job that gets me off the road i'm sorry my pickup was my pickup was included in the check 13 and that's paid off oh good so you got a car i don't even have that okay yes sir what's it worth uh 16 ford f-150 i had an offer for 16-6 i think okay all right that's a lot of car for where you are right now if you want to hold on to it you can i don't care you got it paid off uh or you can sell it today and have fifteen thousand dollars in cash in your pocket right right that'd be tempting to me and get me a five thousand dollar truck um and have ten thousand dollars in my pocket and go ahead and start looking for a job to come off the road and looking for a little one apartment to come off the road and get your life set because your rhythm right now is throwing gears that's your whole rhythm and i want to reset your rhythm into not being out of town you and the dog have an apartment uh or a little small home of some kind something it doesn't have to be much because you're not going to be there forever you're going to be there for two years while you finish this transition out of the 13 and off the road does that make any sense yes sir and nick there's some there's some literature out there there's some nerd research out there that talks about what it's like to sleep in your own bed for 60 days for 90 days and your whole body your whole mind starts healing itself and there's something about showering in your own place and sleeping in your own place and suddenly you things clear up when it comes to thinking right and then this new job this dude what am i going to do next some of those things get a little more clear because you get a little more stable and a little deeper sleep if i were you i'd start looking for a job today as soon as i found one i'd sell my truck get me a 5 000 truck and come off the road if you can do that no we gotta do it and i got i got i got fond memories of just me and my old hound dog in a one bedroom apartment for a couple it was awesome man no doubt right and just kind of you know and then just kind of get you know off the road no bankruptcy no crap flying around your head and you you get a calmer more uh uh more calmer more peaceful rhythm to your life and then that allows you to start growing your career into the future that allows you to start you know plugging into a good church that allows you to start working out again that allows you to uh uh you know think about buying a home two years from now and start setting some goals on all of that and um if you were my little brother that's what i tell you to do if you want to keep the truck and wait four months or five months and pile up some cash that's fine i would personally you know i think you'll get you another truck someday soon and i would rather personally be off the road and get this fresh start if i were you then own the truck but that's just me you get to decide that as to how quick you want to do that but uh to me that is an unusually large item value-wise in this story yeah it stands out in this story and so i would use it to reset my life and get in a slower peaceful rhythm that i can use to build my wealth build my body build my spirit build relationships again because you're just you're just gone all the time you're throwing gears man and when you don't when you're sleeping in a truck you're not all the way asleep you're not sleeping for seven eight hours at a time you're not getting that you don't have that place to anchor into yeah yeah and it sounds like there's some relationship steps you need to work on well let's go back and call on your sister and slowly start to heal that or healing some of those old relationships man but having a good place that you anchor in so that you're steady and you're having that just peace man yeah um then that's a great place great news is you're free from the bankruptcy it's all in your rearview mirror so you get it you got a whiteboard you got a brand new day brand new year brand new thing yeah as soon as you can find a job if i'm you i'm gonna sell the truck and come off the road yeah and i start looking today that's that's you do whatever you want but that's our advice for you listening to you and i really really appreciate the kind of guy you are that you're you're a guy that just scratches and scraps pushes through makes it happen me and the dog jump in the truck and got her done yeah you know i love 60 grand crush doing a great job man you're working your butt off you're going all the time i love that and um i just i think the next phase is going to be so much better for you you got some real cool things in the next 12 to 24 months for you if you make real careful wise choices this is the dave ramsey show [Music] [Music] [Music] cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease it was just such a relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of chm is the original and longest serving health cost sharing ministry get started today and check us out at [Music] chministries.org [Music] [Music] dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at eight eight two five five two two five adam is in dallas hi adam welcome to the dave ramsey show [Music] hey dave thanks for taking our call sure how can we help my wife and my wife and i we are currently working through baby step two we are about halfway through that process um and my question is my wife is she's an operator um of a woman's retail store and we eventually are going to have the opportunity to purchase that store outright um at the end of 2020 she received kind of i guess it would be like a bonus from the company so our question is do we do we put that aside in some type of fun to save to purchase that business down the road or do we throw that at our snowball and try to help us get out of baby step two with that money i'm a little bit confused this sounds like a big company in one hand the other thing that sounds like a local boutique and she's buying out this a single store or is this a chain or is it a franchise it's it's a pri it's it's not a chain there's there's multiple stores um ours would be the the local store in the in the little town that we live in that we would be purchasing and other people do that in their towns or is this the first time the company sold one of the company stores to a former employee right this would be the first time yeah do you have any idea what the store is going to cost um we we have a figure yes how much we know the number on that 400 000. okay um well let's just talk about the business aspect for a minute then i want to buy a 400 000 business uh you're in debt and baby step two which tells me you do not have any money right uh not not the kind of money to buy that store right now i don't know well if you're working baby step two you should not have any money but a thousand dollars and all of it should have been applied to baby step two unless it's in a retirement account right is that where we are right i mean that's where we are yes sir okay so you don't have a hundred thousand dollars in a mutual fund sitting to the side somewhere no okay what do you make about 75 a year what does she make um around 100 what's the net profit on that store do you have any idea not profit on the store you know after she's paid her 100 right uh yes okay all right well 400 is not a bad purchase price on it then that's a fairly reasonable valuation if it includes all fixtures inventory receivables and everything um that's not a bad price the biggest problem is you don't have any money so um right okay let's go back to your original question and then let me solve the problem on buying the store okay because i want to try to do both if that's okay with you um sure number one is how big is her bonus coming um it was 30 000. and how much debt do you guys have left in baby step two we are right at 45 that we have left okay so let's pretend that you set 30 000 to the side and uh you don't use it to get out of debt then you've got to pay off the 40 000 yet okay or let's pretend you use the 30 000 and you get out of that that much faster and the in the exact same period of time that you could have paid off 40 000 worth or thirty thousand dollars worth of debt you could put back the thirty thousand dollars right so if we go to the end of this and there's thirty thousand dollars in your account and your debt free you'll get there in exactly the same speed regardless of whether you pay down on the debt and then you use the fact when you're debt free to build the account back to 30 or whether you use the 30 to knock it out now and then you build the account back to 30. i mean you leave the 30 alone and you just pay through it or you use the 30 and get out you're going to get out in the same speed okay at the end of the story now so i'm going to pay it on the debt for that reason um and because you need to be debt-free before you talk about buying a 400 000 business the second thing i'll tell you is that eighty percent of the small businesses fail in the first five years and the number one reason they fail is cash flow problems which falls under two headings they screw up their taxes they don't hold their sales tax back they don't set their quarterlies aside on their income taxes and the second thing they get into in cash flow is they get into debt so you go don't have any money or you put down 50 000 you take a 350 000 loan for a store that's making a hundred thousand dollars and a pandemic hits and you go out of business and you're bankrupt and that's what normally happens eight out of ten times i would tell you do not do that i want you to buy the store but i do not want you to buy it that way with 350 000 worth of debt with a 50 000 down payment with an sba loan on your home there is a high probability you're going to fail and go bankrupt in that scenario and i know you don't think that's buzzable but it's very freaking possible i've been doing this 30 years and i see it all the time so i don't want your dream of owning the store to turn into a nightmare fair enough here's what i would do number one one possibility is you just pile up cash after you're out of debt so high that you pay cash for the store that's one possibility now that's going to take a little while but you make 175 000 a year how quickly can you come up with 400 probably four years you know something like that right are they going to give you that long to buy it um well i guess we're gonna we're in a good unique situation as far as purchasing the store um the 400 000 would be interest-free right yeah so it would just be oh they're going to loan it to 400 000 outright well not necessarily um we still have to come up with the money but um it's it's interest-free um you know we're not going to have to go take out a loan or anything like that but you're going to you're going to owe them the money you're going to owe them the money right and until you pay them they can come take it back if it fails right yeah so they're going to own or finance it great that's the best of all worlds let me do one thing if i can talk you into changing the structure just a little bit and you've got to talk them into this and since they've never done it before there's no reason they can't be talked into it here's what i want to do i would propose to them that if they're going to finance the store for you at zero interest at 400 000 that is an awesome deal thank you so very much i want to pay you every bit of the profit above 75 000 salary instead of 100 000 salary that i can i'm going to give you a hundred percent of profits above that until the 400 is paid that's going to pay that store off in three years four years okay and then now here's the nuance to that i said all the profits above 75 000 and you guys can easily make it in your house with your wife making 75 instead of making 100 you making 75. you got 150 000 income in my scenario and 100 of the profits which is now 100 and a quarter if our numbers are all right here are going towards the 400 are you following this yes sir okay now if profits drop because there's some weird pandemic or something happens you're not bankrupt because all you've pledged them is a hundred percent of the profits above 75. so if the stupid thing goes down loses drop drops way down and doesn't net a hundred and a quarter above 75 it nets one thousand dollars above 75 you're gonna give them one thousand dollars and take home 75 and you're not in bankruptcy court and they're not foreclosing on you oh if profits drop to zero one year you're going to give them zero because they get a hundred percent of the profits above 75. and if this all works out the way you all think it's going to perfectly which by the way it never freaking does you're going to be out completely out of this in 36 to 48 months under my scenario and you've done it interest free and they've accomplished their goal selling you the store it's a wonderful idea and it doesn't bankrupt you if there's a freaking pandemic this is the dave ramsey show [Music] [Music] [Applause] dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today it's tax season or almost [Music] what's worse than a pandemic taxes almost almost so by the end of this month employees must employers must send you your w-2 your 1099s and many people put filing their taxes off until later in the spring because well who wants to sit down and do taxes the only people that rush into it are the ones that are getting a big refund and a lot of them don't even rush into it but folks let me tell you this year you'd be wise to start your taxes as early as possible 2020 was crazy and a lot happened that can affect your taxes if taxes were confusing or complicated to you last year this is not the year to do them alone our team has partnered with tax professionals across the country who will help you get your taxes done right and done now instead of later so text tax pro to three three seven eight nine and we'll get you some help with your taxes that's tax pro no spaces two three three seven eight nine tax pro dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today nicholas is in miami florida hi nicholas how are you i hate being afraid dr john how you guys doing great how can we help first i want to say thank you for taking my call i appreciate it sure um so recently separated from the military march of 2020 not by choice might have made a few bad decisions uh hung around some people that i shouldn't have and uh ultimately got separated early um it wasn't on terrible terms it was still an honorable discharge but uh i just couldn't finish my contract so early on in my time in the military i purchased the vehicle uh just as you do as you know a lot of people do in the military soon you get that paycheck so purchase the vehicle for about twenty two thousand dollars uh put zero down on it and uh the payments came up to around 470 around that a month um i made the payments for about the first four months or so and come the fifth month or when the fifth month came around i missed the payment and i just snowballed from there and i didn't end up paying on the car for about a year and a half and for the better part of the year and a half uh around like a year three months and the car never got repossessed um during that entire time wow um are you still you still have the car no so it got repo'ed in um so i i got the car finally in june of 2019 yeah uh paid for it for about the first three to four months so now you have a repo okay yeah or sorry not 2029 got the car in uh uh june of 2018 and i got repo'd in may of 2020 paid for for about the first four months so um car got repo'ed um and um you know they sell it to auction and nicholas what's your question i i wanted to know what should i do because i i i owe i owe the uh about this offered me a settlement of twenty four hundred dollars for the car uh during the time that i got the car i also bought a pair of tires uh and i didn't end up paying on that so uh i owned the tire the car's about twelve hundred dollars i got a settlement offer for that as well for about two hundred fifty dollars okay so twenty seven hundred dollars solves your problems and i have a thousand dollars in credit card debt okay um thirty seven hundred dollars problems what's your income so i i just got a job i make conservatively speaking about 1500 a month and as of right now i am a full-time student um i was looking at purchasing a vehicle that was like the main thing i wanted to purchase a vehicle this week actually i'm about three thousand dollars saved and um i wanted to get a car um but i wanted to know how are you getting around now uh i use my grandma's car and and is it an extra car or why is why are you able to use her car um well she she doesn't really drive much you know she's like said she's up 76 she doesn't really drive at all so she just has it for emergencies really for her but so how much could you drive it for two more months um yeah i could but she i could but it's not i mean it's not going to inconvenience her she's not driving it you just don't want to how old are you uh 22. ah okay all right yeah so and i and jumping into crap jumping into crap that you can't afford is caused you pain right time to stop doing that making decisions that you know aren't right has cost you pain man you know this is not smart so i'm going to take 2 000 of your 3 000 and get rid of 2 000 of the 3 700 worth of debt which means i'm going to get rid of the tire debt and the credit card debt and then i'm going to save towards 2400 to settle that stupid debt uh with a repo and um you're going to be done with that in about a month and a half because you need to be working like a maniac like six jobs while you're in school full time i want you to have no personal social life at all i want you to do nothing but make money and clean up your dadgum mess because this is so stressful dude it's not fun can hear your voice man it's not fun you're not it's hard for you to even think through this clearly because the stress is so overwhelming am i wrong no no it's trying it's driving you nuts you're not even sleeping good are you listening you hit it right on the now yeah i've been there man i've been that scared and freaked out and let me just tell you if you will work like a maniac live on beans and rice use 2000 towards the 3 700 problem that you have and then knock the 2400 out in a month and a half to two months from now and then save up and buy you a car for three thousand dollars in cash by the end of sep by september you're going to be debt-free driving a car that you paid cash for and working a plan called your education towards having a great life in the future now you got control of your dadgum life right that sounds appealing to me yeah i i agree my point honestly my plan was and i know especially hearing what you just said i know you're gonna disagree with it i was gonna i i i was gonna get a car for around six thousand dollars uh you don't need any more debt honey man don't do it dude you know it's not been a blessing in your life you call me up stressed out not sleeping because you got debt and repos on tires and cars and credit cards and no and no no peace that's why we call our thing financial peace two words that don't go together you know so please don't do that honey you do whatever you want to do you're 22. you're grown man you're allowed to do it it's legal but that doesn't mean it ain't stupid don't do it i want you to reverse engineer the last 24 months of your life man and look at the decisions that haven't worked and don't voluntarily walk back into them you've already done it man taking out a big loan it was probably jeep it was stupid and putting big tires on it was stupid and you've been given a gift to sell to settle at the price that you've you've been asked to settle it's a gift brother yeah take it you told somebody i will pay you and you didn't and they're offering your way out do it go see one of the counselors that you pay for at this college go see somebody get your head screwed on straight and don't make stupid decisions on top of stupid decision you're smarter than this man i know you are it's you know ask yourself what's going to give me peace a new car payment is not on the list and doing the same thing that got you in this mess in the first place it isn't the journey out take a new road man yeah first step to getting out of debt don't borrow anymore man big step big step you can do it you call me back if we can help you anyway we're here to help you man i've been right where you are i've been scared and i've been living in the poop that i made and that's where you are and um just you know the trick is don't don't keep doing it and i feel myself getting passionate because i've been there too man pace in the house just like yeah walking around figure this out sweat in the palm of your hands yeah it's just not it's not fun it's not fun so we feel for you we're not we're not shamed now we're not picking on you two old guys that have been there man yeah we just um yeah i love you man i don't want to see you hurt yeah hold on kelly's going to pick up i'm going to send you a copy of the total money makeover thank you for your service to our country sir this is the dave ramsey show [Music] welcome to the dave ramsey show you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five christopher is in scranton pennsylvania hi christopher how are you hey dave how are you great man how can we help good so i'm 23 years old i'm still living at home just finishing off my debt i have 6k left paying it off um so if you were in my position 23 years old what's your next step once you're debt free should you invest should i save more or save for a down payment on a house just curious what your what your info is cool you're doing great man congratulations thank you how much have you paid off uh started at 32 000. wow good for you man what do you make thank you uh 83 000 for here lord what do you do for a living i am a project manager excellent good for you thank you you're killing it okay thank you so you like that you're making great money you like your job in your area huh i do uh my job is it's a blast i really enjoy it um the area i i don't have an issue with i don't like the winter but i think i'll stick around here for a while sure okay well we teach folks to become debt free which you're very close to doing to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses that's baby step three and then start saving 15 of your income towards retirement sometimes between baby steps three and four between getting your emergency fund done first people will stop there and save up a down payment for a house before they start saving for retirement particularly in your age group because you got plenty of time to get after the retirement and you're not going to be sidelined from retirement saving very long to save up for a down payment on a house so what would i do if i woke up in your shoes i would make plans to have my own rental place within 90 days okay and i would rent for a little while while i built up my emergency fund and started saving for the down payment on my house and plus or minus start saving for retirement but um it's been my experience that it's going to be very very good for you you make a lot of money you're doing really good i have a great first job out of the gates man i mean your income's amazing you've cleaned up your debts um being on your own is a great next step right right do you have a good relationship with your folks i'm sorry do you have a good relationship with your folks oh yes very close yeah man so leave it on a high note i love dave's recommendation right yeah they um the good relationship with mom and dad makes my suggestion feel a little bit um ludicrous because why not stay there for rent free and build up some cash that's what runs that's what runs through mom and dad's head because they don't necessarily want to kick you out and it's what's running through your head i will tell you that the advancement of your adulthood will far outweigh the uh your wealth building over the next 10 years by moving out earlier rather than later um their math their math is wrong and uh the good news i mean i had one of our kids live with us for a little while right after college and um and we love her and honestly to this day she could live there and i'd be fine i mean it did we get along well and um you know all that kind of stuff it would not be an issue at all uh there wasn't anything driving her to leave or us to throw her out or something like that but man but she stayed about 90 days and went out on her own and it just changed the way she walked it changed the way she talked it changed the way she functioned when you start buying your own groceries paying your own light bill it just changes stuff and i hear so often folks get to that that relational tension where mom and dad and you just can't sit at a table hardly yeah yeah hate it when they walk into quote unquote your room but it's in their house all that leave on a great note leave when everybody's um when nobody wants you to leave yeah you still have lunch once a week go to lunch on sunday afternoons together still and yeah be connected still watch the game with you with your old man but um leave while things are good and your your financial footing is so strong right now you're good to go man making 83 at 23. it's a different world that's not the world i lived in that's good man way to go man so proud of you project management's great great field great field for sure well it is time to put 2020 behind us if you're ready to own this year and actually accomplish your goals with your money your career your life we got the plan to get you there last year left us all with wounds and feeling stressed out so start 20 21 with our newest quick read redefining anxiety by dr john deloney to learn what anxiety is what it's not and how to get your life back the best part is it's just quick read it's only 10 bucks and this year many of us need to spend time connecting with god to rest to reset christie writes new women's devotional called living true 40 days to get back to you will help you feel like you again and to help you with your money goals pick up rachel cruz's brand new best seller know yourself know your money this book will help you tackle your money mindset so you can make real progress and reach your goals even faster online store daveramsey.com backslash store to get serious make some real progress if i woke up in your shoes i would probably buy all three of those redefining anxiety the new 40 days to get back to you devotional and know yourself know your money they serve three different purposes and they're all solid material and all best sellers by the way seen some neat things with that redefining anxiety i've i'm starting to get notes from counseling offices across the country that are buying them 10 at a time no way to give to their clients on the way out the door so they can say hey read this and then the next session we're going to talk about it and you've got some tools and the counselors love it because it's it's short and it's simple and it's it's right to the point um and that's fine that's affirming yeah hey it is yeah and when one focuses you kind of expected some of the counseling community to be mad at you about this i did yeah that we distilled you know thirty six thousand dollar degree into about 85 pages but um but yeah but i mean some of the stuff you say is a bit heretical in that world it is just because it's simple and we tend to over complicate things and it was a it was a journey writing this for me even to they you guys kept pushing me back and saying you're not talking to a bunch of scientists man how can i help somebody in their house right now who's struggling at their kitchen table and it's another fire it's yeah it's it's really a gift but it's neat that that's cool community's picking it up yeah that is i did not hear that yet that's awesome cool well we need to like come up with a bulk deal man that's a good that's a good thing ten dollars is not about that ten bucks man shut up yeah shut up cut the price even more that's right cut down what john's going to make on it but yeah that's great the book is redefining anxiety what it is what it's not and how to get your life back three out of five counselors now recommended three out of five dentists right dentists that's right three out of five dentists recommend it it is great it's a great read if you've ever had or know anybody that think like yourself that's dealing with anxiety it is a it's a must read and it's only 84 pages there you go this is the dave ramsey [Music] show [Music] what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings [Music] dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five cody is with us in houston texas hi cody how are you hey i'm good thank y'all for taking my call sure what's up i just needed some advice on how to practice patience better whether it be in my career or just life in general i'm just really impatient i've always been peddled to the metal you know climbed the ladder climbed the ladder climbed the ladder and then covered it and stopped all the ladder climbing so i'm just getting kind of bored where i'm at and just needed to figure out how to be more patient with my life and career progressions what are you running from man i don't know i just i grew up super super super poor and i'm tired of being that away i'm in a lot better position now than i ever dreamed of being i'm just i'm just trying to not go back to that place when you say you're in a better position what does that mean just financially i mean me my wife we live a you know we have a good life and better than my family ever did growing up so i don't know i'm just trying to make sure i don't end up back there when you say good life give me a picture of that you talking about financially your marriage is good you got your kids are healthy what's that mean we don't have kids but financially our marriage is good i mean we're we're in our second year of marriage now so as good as two years of marriage can be during a pandemic but um i mean we make really good money i mean we're both young we don't have any kids yet thankfully because they're expensive but you know what's uh what's really good money uh between the two of us about 220 and you're how old she's 27 and 26. it's really good money that's great money so sometimes when folks have a picture of a life they don't want to have they take off running as fast as they can another direction and that's often a good thing right but if your identity doesn't become about building something good but it becomes about not being that then you're going to always be running for the rest of your life and your identity will become as being a sprinter and so there's a way you can look at this season you're making great money great money astounding money in a city that's not super expensive and you can look at slowing down as a curse or as wow what a gift man i can spend more time with my brand new wife and we can figure each other out that becomes you're talking about legacy shift earning the money changing your financial footing that's part of a legacy shift but so is having great relationships deep rooted trust with somebody you can anchor and rappel off the edge of anything with or survive any car crash with right and so i'd love to challenge you to come up with some practices that when you start running from something when your heart starts racing when you get those looping thoughts in your head i gotta go gotta go gotta go that you and your wife come up with um whether it's a code word or whether it's a a special meal or something that you slow down and intentionally practice being still there's one way to practice patience brother and that's to practice patience i wish it was harder i wish it was more complex than that it's not um you have to decide that my life isn't going to be judged on how many zeros i have after my check they're awesome but it's not all of your life you're gonna have to decide that i'm gonna put prioritize some things in addition to changing my financial future right and so you're going to have to decide to not spend your life as a sprinter the tortoise always wins always there is something to be said man you shot out of the gate and that's incredible man what do you have an emergency fund you guys got a home you all set up yes sir we're in three b and four so we're we're out of two and we do have the emergency fund set up so now you got to do the hard work you sprinted you gazelled out right yeah you finished up the intensity now you're gonna go to the intentional and that's hard man four five and six it's a gear change so um how long have you been making 220 uh not that long in the last maybe six months she just finished pa school so when she got out and got a job it really kicked it up yeah so based on the math of what you've told me and you're all focused intensity and your high level of motivation i'm going to tell you that um 20 years from today when you're in your mid-40s you're going to have between five and fifteen million dollars yeah that'd be sweet now the difference in five million and fifteen million in terms of what it does for what you're running from is zero five million gets you as far away from poverty as 15 million gets you the only difference is which room you stay in on vacation and which how many lobster tail you order with that steak that's really the only and really with either one of those numbers you could do as much of either of those things as you want to do there's only so much crap you're going to be able to buy and the difference in 5 million and 15 million is merely legacy stuff it's merely stuff you can do with generations it's merely things you can do with generosity but your actual state of well-being the difference between 5 million and 15 million is almost nothing the difference between 5 million and 15 million that you the price you would pay psychologically emotionally spiritually between now and then to have 15 instead of five ain't worth it is my point so five five at five at twenty years from today or seven or ten at twenty twenty years from today running a marathon pace instead of a sprinter's pace is all i want for you i don't want you to have 20 and there's nothing left in your guts and your kids don't know who you are or they don't like talking to you or you're on marriage number three and i work i work with wealthy people for 25 years man and i am wealthy and so and you know i get up on uh sunday morning and go to dunkin donuts at six o'clock in the morning and take the grand babies donuts with sprinkles on them and you know you can do that with five million you can do it with 50 million you can do it with 500 million um you know and it really in the laughter of the kids is really not even gonna change the car you drive yeah and that's between the difference between in other words at a certain point wealth only begets more wealth it does not change the your situation that's right it doesn't change it doesn't change your setting right there's only so much i mean when your home becomes two percent of your net worth instead of eight percent of your net worth it doesn't change anything right yeah it's not a it's not a thing when it's a hundred percent of your net worth that's when you you are feeling that one right you are feeling that one but um but but there at some point your uh your environment is no longer your personal lifestyle your environment is no longer affected unless you're just kind of some kind of freak who's just buying you know stuff like you know whatever bling or you're trying to just buy stuff to impress people i mean you can do all that but even then you know you just got another yacht that you have to work on right and they break down and so if you've ever been hiking in the woods and you turn a corner and there's a bear you have a built-in your heart races when you go in the woods whenever you hear something rustling you immediately you've got to train yourself over time to not see a bear everywhere it's a rare occasion i've been in the woods a million times it just doesn't happen that often it does occasionally but man when you've seen poverty when you've seen pain in your family question it's just such a good i do and it's so hard to get your head out of that because man our brains take care of us david it's an interesting way to ask it what's that how do i learn to practice patience well that's somebody that's got some wisdom and he's starting to see it right it's not you know i but i don't think it's patience i think it's contentment that's it how do i practice practice peace something this year that uh godliness with contentment is great gain i'm working this year to reverse engineer the fruits of the spirit what does it look like where do i see peace where do i see gentleness and where can i trace that limb back instead of trying to do it over here i'm trying to walk it back i'm just going to open a can of gentleness that's exactly that's not how it works right so where do i see it and i love his question because he's certain what he's searching for hey we got that money and i still i'm not just falling asleep at 10 o'clock yeah i'm still water early promoter how do i just go to sleep and i want to tell you you practice peace you practice gentleness you practice forgiveness and slowly your default setting falls that way yeah that's good but he's on it and because he asked the question and that's a gift because he's not blaming everybody for his lack of sleep he's not chasing pills he's not chasing anger he's saying how do i practice patience they need practice patients by practicing patients there you go dr john deloney this is the dave ramsey [Music] show [Music] folks it's an honor to tell you about the army national guard not only are they big supporters of our high school curriculum but they also give you the opportunity to impact your local communities whether your goals are to get an education serve your country or have a better life the army national guard can help get you there plus they offer unbelievable financial benefits secure your future today visit nationalguard.com to find out more [Music] so dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air mike and marianne are with us in richmond virginia says on my screen you guys are debt-free congratulations thank you uncle james way to go guys how much have you paid off we paid off a hundred and seventy two thousand dollars all right and how long did that take you 27 months wow and your range of income during that time 150 000 to 200 000. very cool what do you guys do for a living uh i'm a small business owner and general contractor and i'm a fundraiser for university health system awesome way to go so what kind of debt was the 172 thousand dollars uh we had where i had a little bit of business that um i think it was two vehicles student loan and uh some renovation loans for our home okay so you got just kind of normal very normal pretty normal yeah no credit card yet but yeah how long you guys been married we've been married almost three years and our story is pretty cool dave we met about 30 years ago through church and even dated a little bit in high schools and went our separate ways married mike had two children we both went through a divorce and reconnected about four years ago and did what any newlywed and love couple would do we bought a house a 200 year old farmhouse and hundred thousand dollar loan so before you knew it we were almost five hundred thousand dollars in debt wow wow yeah yeah that was a big tipping point for us for sure and we were on a long drive and we heard this dave ramsey podcast mike had read the total money makeover and in that process we looked at each other and we said we could do this we could too be debt-free i know that we can make this happen as a couple so mike you got her in the car before you put the podcast on huh well played strapped around for a long time nowhere to go man trapped crazy dave ramsey oh my gosh oh man so how long was this drive i do think it was about an hour and a half and i think she said hey do you like podcasts and i i think i said do you know who dave ramsey is and that that was that was how that started and we were listening to it dave and we we thought gosh these people are amazing they're paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars we have that same problem is there any way that we could do this and i think we were pretty scared at first but the second we got married we combined all of our finances and we went right into the snowball and it really changed our life both individually and then as a couple coming out of two other two failed marriages how hard was it to combine your finances uh that's a really good question i don't think either one of us had a lot of expectations based off of our previous experiences but because we didn't have partners in our previous marriages um it was really fun to kind of learn how to do this together and there was no point of resistance at any time to to do this as a couple yeah and the best part has been doing it together and having that partner what i tell people all the time is that marriage can be wonderful and the financial part of marriage can be even better it can be a lot of fun to dream and plan and not only did we accomplish this goal but every single day we dream together about what we're going to be able to do in partnership man that's awesome that that's that's the key to success especially in second marriages is being able to say we're going to build something brand new together and we're gonna plant it and see it and dream it and then go make it happen and good for you guys that's incredible very well done very very well done all right you pay off 172 000 after listening to a podcast in 27 months what else did you do to get out of debt and what are the keys for the listener out there that this is maybe they're in the car trap listening to this podcast and they're going hey these people paid off 172 000 tell them how you did it yeah the first thing we did was we sold a car we didn't need uh we got on the every dollar plus app which has been amazing totally transformational for us and we had a plan every single month we had a plan we would sit down on saturday mornings together and we would decide where our money would go we cut up the one credit card we had that we hardly even used we refinanced our house we took side jobs we increased our income through promotions we did everything that we could to stay focused together and before you knew it we had paid it all off that's powerful and i think you know the secret and we've talked about partnership a little bit already but for me it was you know the promise to each other to always be in partnership to have patience with the process and to have positive cash flow dave yeah that always helps yeah so uh you guys almost make this sound too easy what was the hardest part um we were talking about this a little bit it wasn't i don't want to act like it was easy but once we got put our mind to it it wasn't that hard so the thing that was somewhat challenging was from time to time you know we would get distracted and with things like well you know maybe we should continue to give to retirement or maybe i want to go off on this business venture and do well-intentioned things with our money but it really wasn't the time so we would talk through those things and just bring ourselves back to the process here and just stay focused on this this baby step two and so the challenge was just the endurance to stay focused for that long you know your your story is really interesting in in one respect because listening to you you're very articulate intelligent um you're not people who just uh you know uh kowtow and follow any old thing uh but one of the biggest problems people have honestly out there is that and me included when it comes to something like this is am i going to submit myself to the proven process and something somehow youtube decided we're going to submit to this we're going to do it what do you attribute that to where the partnership came that's where it came in we looked at each other eye to eye every week and went we're still committed to this so anytime there was a temptation or there was something that came in our way or you know amazon tempted me to buy something else i'd look at mike and we go no we have dreams and plans and goals and you know dave we want to give and we want to be you know wealthy along the way we want to teach our children mike's children how to do the same and i think that was a big motivator for us with our family and knowing the kind of legacy that we want to leave behind as well yeah for sure so what you did was and this isn't isn't vernacular that we normally use but this is exactly what they what you did you practiced commitment every week you recommitted to commitment and every week you got together and committed to commitment and then over time it became your way of being so when these new ideas these new temptations came your way nope we're not we're not going to do that right and my guess is you also started practicing co-parenting and you also started practicing co-calendaring right and co-eating and go exercising is that fair to say yeah that's pretty accurate guess yep yeah i tell people all the time and i'm not being hyperbolic but this changed everything for us we were more driven in our careers more driven in fitness and health more driven in parenting i mean everything that we've done has been better because we've been locked in financially wow yeah i'm snowballing in my business now that we're done doing this personally i'm so proud of you guys well done got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires uh that's definitely the next step in your all's journey the next chapter in your story absolutely amazing very well done mike and marianne richmond virginia 172 thousand dollars paid off in 27 months making 150 to 200 count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one [Applause] wow it is amazing if you submit yourself to a proven thing you're going to get those results why do we all push against that i do they submitted themselves to one another every week too also yeah that and what a great practice to start america i'll tell you what man man powerful well done they're rock stars absolute rock stars this is the dave ramsey show [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] our scripture today first john 4 1 beloved do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from god for many false prophets have gone out into the world bret sugar said words can inspire thoughts can provoke but only action truly brings you closer to your dreams yep otherwise you'd be called a dreamer no i'm a dreamer you gotta go do it man there it is just you gotta you know when in doubt bust something bust into it i mean you just gotta do it all right let's move quickly to calls before john sings again lindsay is with us in phoenix arizona hi lindsay how are you good how are you better than i deserve what's up um well i'm a single mom and i have 50 000 um in savings wow so should i use that for a down payment on a house um because my income isn't that high or if i should invest it um i guess i'm kind of just like suck on what to do with it what's your income um this year it should be 52 000 a year but i've usually like the last whatever six years it's been like 26 or less so why is it so high now um i moved and i got a different job good for you good for you how many kids you got and what ages i'm just one and she's six oh good okay so a single mom making 52 thousand dollars a year and in phoenix arizona and you have 50 000 in cash where'd you get 50 000 in cash um i just i saved um a lot like i saved all my texts um returned ever since i had my daughter and just i lived at home for about almost five years um until recently when i moved um so that helped and then how old are you just working really hard i'm 29. okay yeah you're you're and that's impressive making 25 000 bucks and you save 50. man that's a grind out yeah i thought i've always been like much of a favor um but uh my daughter's father he basically stole a lot of money from me and ruined my credit score so after all of that i just really put my mind to it and saved and got my credit score up girl you're a warrior that's what i'm talking about good for you i'm proud of you well done very well done well um what we teach our baby steps and baby step one is a thousand dollars two is to be debt free other than your home you've done those two three is to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses are you debt-free yeah i mean just my car payment oh well that would be a deal okay how much do you how much do we owe on said car um i think maybe a little less than ten thousand i should be done in like a year now okay so if you were going to follow our plan and do what we teach which is obviously what i recommend and it's how i live and it's how i teach people to live you would pay off your car today and you would take some of the remaining the remaining forty thousand dollars and we would set some of it aside as an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses i'm gonna call that twenty thousand dollars okay and so thirty of your fifty has been allocated to paying off the car and 20 of it's set aside so that's that leaves us twenty thousand dollars of still asking the question what do we do with it you follow what i did 10 on the car i'm sorry 10 on the car 20 in the rainy day fund leaving us 20 to do something else with right okay and right now it's just another regular bank account just okay it doesn't have to be invested to be fancy you are way ahead of people who make 10 times more than you make they can't save a nickel you're amazing so now what i would do if i were in your shoes i would leave that 20 000 in a separate bank account i'm going to name that bank account house fund and now that we don't have a car payment and we're going to live on a budget and we're going to make twice as much as you ever made i'm going to put money on top of that 20 and money on top of that 20 and money on top of that 20 and in two or three years i'm going to buy a house with a really large down payment and i'm going to use that down payment money for that account okay meanwhile you never borrow money again when you do buy the house you put it on a 15-year fixed where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay but i'm going to guess and say you're probably going to put down 100 000 on a house i don't know that's a lot that gives me like the thing is you wanna know how i did that let me help you i did that okay you saved 50. you saved 50 000 making 25. now you make 52. i think you're gonna save 100 really fast i know but i still think you're going to save really i think really really fail you make twice what you used to make it's just in your nature you're a warrior and you're a saver and you just you're incredible and i want you to do a budget with your six-year-old daughter i want you to bring her into this and let her practice it and this this is how you're going to start to change this family we're going to buy us we're gonna buy us a house baby girl that's exactly right and every week she's gonna get to make the little chain with you or whatever game you'll come up with but she's gonna learn how awesome her mom is what an absolute um great mother and saver and planner and builder her mom is and she's going to learn what a strong invested woman looks like and you're going to she's going to walk alongside you it's going to be a great journey for both of you it is interesting to me in a culture that has completely gone wussified where everybody spends all their time being a victim everybody spends all their time looking for something to be offended by i get this sweet little voice on the phone who is a stronger warrior than almost anybody out there listening man that woman's incredible yes she is and you you and and so unassuming you would never think that conan the barbarian lives in her soul with a giant sword yeah yeah yeah it's just so sweet man oh but she looks at that baby girl every morning and says we're gonna do this yeah right she's got a big big y fifty-two percent single mom lived below the poverty level not her yeah she doubled her income she made a move yeah she lived at home for a while moved out save fifty thousand dollars listen if you're out there and you had a tendency to whine after that call you're done now just shut up euro it's over now your whining is over now back back in college we called her the curve buster right yeah yeah we all got c's everyone's going to get moved except for you got a 97 that's her right except for the one who messed the curve up yeah yeah yeah we're gonna grade on a curve oh well then there's then there's lindsey from phoenix good for you way to go kiddo so proud of you well done you know what's interesting is um the number of times people face uh adversity which is all of us sometimes and most of us last year yeah and then the choice and it's a choice yeah on how to react to it you choose i'm gonna wail and scream and wait on the democrats to send me money yeah or i'm gonna wail and scream about whatever internet story i found i'm gonna find somebody that will because of that guy whoever voted for that guy tell me what i want whichever guy whoever voted for them you're stark craven evil both of you both of you that's right and so you must be punished you must be canceled you must be killed or you know what i'm going to do i'm going to show you i'm going to live in rage and anger so that i poison myself hoping you die right i'm gonna i'm gonna ruin all of my relationships and drive like an idiot and slam doors in my house and yell at my kids that'll show whoever's on the other end of that computer keyboard it's just nonsense right or or you can be lindsey you can just start nickel and dime in your way and say i'm in charge of my life i'm going to practice and i've got i've got it nobody's going the lone ranger is not coming i'm going to practice patience i'm gonna do it i love it get on the back of the turtle great show guys great show that puts this hour of the day ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus [Music] you

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Views: 46,032

Rating: 4.8874073 out of 5

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Id: 54yVAtPeW0I

Length: 122min 50sec (7370 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 25 2021