Diablo 4 Podcast with Zizaran, Asmongold, Kripparrian & wudijo - Launch Recap, Progression & More

I think that's where we're pretty much set we have a is there any time limit anyone time sensitive not really oh I've got I mean I got two hours so I mean I got plenty of time man I'm chilling sweet all right let's just get into it I'm joined today by asmin cripp and Woody and we are going to talk about Diablo 4. and yeah let's let's do like a quick intro for if there's anyone that doesn't already know everyone on the podcast Crypt you wanna do a quick intro for yourself yeah so I actually started streaming uh 11 years and some change ago because of Diablo 3 . so we couldn't we couldn't miss this one and I've been streaming it a lot along with a bunch of other games I guess and it's been pretty fun awesome buddy yeah I have also been streaming for eight years now or so starting in Diablo 3 season one and I've been playing a lot of the other three some Poe as well and well now the other four was something I've been waiting for for a long time I've been preparing for this and having a little fun of it so far it's been great awesome has been well uh I've been streaming about seven eight years something like that made videos before then a big fan of Diablo 3 actually never really played a lot of Diablo 2 but I've been excited for Diablo for it feels so weird to be here actually playing the game talking about it after how many years that we just got quarterly updates about the game and it's actually out it's so astonishing so I'm glad to be here I know when they're talking about gear without a release date it's like nah I'm good I'll just I'll just figure it out I didn't I needed YouTube content very true and I'm uh I'm scissoring I've been streaming Path of Exile for seven years so Diablo is a big change of pace streamed Diablo a little bit but not a lot and mostly Diablo 2 so I think we uh have a lot of different opinions here I think uh we do have a topic list that I made but I think we could start talking about the dev talk because that just happened and honestly there was a lot more information and good stuff there than I was expecting because a lot of the past talks I don't feel like was that much info but this one was pretty decent um yeah I agree sorry uh Woody anything that really stood out to you on the current Dev talks you were excited about yeah absolutely um especially the nightmare dungeon stuff I mean in general uh they seem to have like you know a really nice place now with their Dev talks and I think they have been getting better overall anyway so they had like they know these other chats already previously and they started video yeah not not very juicy but it's getting better I think and this one in particular I think that the nightmares and stuff the changes with like um making them more interesting or make more valuable and then the the teleports that surprised me that you can teleport to a dungeon I think I didn't see that coming because they were like I didn't either yeah yeah they were like so you know what um yeah focus on this like immersion and you know traveling around and stuff so I figured they would actually do something about you know something to do on the way instead of giving a Teleport so maybe they caved in at the end but yeah that's definitely a welcome change for most people I think though that was like the biggest thing I wanted those on my wish list and yeah I was scared too because of all the immersion stuff actually I disagree a little bit I think if they gave us like an infinitely sized nightmare sigil tab I wouldn't care so much because I just have thousands of them in my inventory yeah I just pick up like 20 of the same one and go there like the the teleport would be secondary to the the stash filter size different tabs I don't even know where to start with that yeah but I think they want to break up the autonomy of it too right like not everybody enjoys doing the same dungeon repeatedly so they want to break that up without punishing them for running between dungeons but now it's going to be a ghost world I wonder about that you know like I'll be honest I could really see why like you know if they didn't make this change I would have I would have defended it if they were like we don't want to make it like that we want people to out in the world I would have understood that because they did that in WoW with Mythic plus Dungeons and like maybe like a good middle ground would be then just letting people teleport if they completed a certain nightmare level but I feel like if they're already letting people do it at this point like it's done like this there's no time yeah it's also though it is a bit of a ghost World already because it's what 12 or 16 people per Shard and even like our trade chat is limited to The Shard so yeah that's why there's like nothing in the trade shot I'm like okay um yeah yeah so I don't know I I think it would make more sense for the immersion if you could see everybody and that would make the world feel more alive um but yeah I think that's one of the best things about MMOs right is like whenever you're out in like the city and you can see everybody I think that's what coolest things so it is kind of it's kind of sad that there's so few people in the area they could do a middle ground where they don't charge the cities but they share the areas outside that way you don't have to like wait for spawns but you actually get to trade and talk to people in town well that's actually the intent like the the towns are more populated like you can see that there's more people but there's still like very few compared to like you know wow right so I'd like to see hundreds of people standing around so this is probably like more about what you would expect I think they could maybe like increase the numbers for towns in general so that they feel a bit more lively I guess I know this is a little unrelated but you know when I think of town I always think of like having to run back and forth to the stash like way too much you guys remember when they added Jeeves the World of Warcraft like in Wrath I did one of those just like automatically well I'm sure they'll add it into the shop I didn't play wrath yeah yeah I don't know I thought what they were gonna do because like the towns are crazy they put the chest in like the worst location in every town uh I thought what they were gonna do at like some sort of end game was unlock The horadam Hideout you know the one that were in the campaign let us have that and they could even have that as a clown Hideout so you could see everybody in your clan running around in the Horizon hideout that's the one like where you know like you go down and like you fight that succubus and then Donuts there later on and like that girl was rifling through his stuff ah yeah okay yeah yeah that's the one where you don't want to be a barb yeah oh yeah except for the 25 demo I mean fun to play I mean it's like are you guys having fun with like what class are y'all playing and like like if you could rate like your enjoyment of your class on like a one to ten what would you do what would you say it is I'm doing Rogue and uh and then I Rogue again and the third Rogue right now and I would say 10. all right it's a high score dude that's a high score well I like what I'm gonna say there's not a lot of tens es in the single digits well I played stork until the last couple days and I think Zork experience is is really cool like it's a nice class there's a lot of like cool stuff you could do and there's a lot of stuff that you can try um I'd say the sword experience is like a nine um it's good and there's there's one thing that like is driving me crazy the more I play necro uh you have to like literally Target the corpses to use Corp skills with mouse and keyboard and on a controller it just automatically targets the nearest corpse obviously you can't see the corpses when you're pulling a pack of mobs and then in the dev stream they go over how they're both necro players on on Console so this is yep there you go controller players getting auto aim and yet another game but it's insane like it's not just Auto like it's not like it it's not like you can't cast it it does the cast and fails if it if you're not targeting a corpse wow yeah horrendous maybe it could increase the the range of like the target acquisition a little bit right so you don't have to exactly Target on the corpse and just like has a bit of like a radius that would be yeah it has to be like hitbox the hitbox but the corpses are actually really tiny yeah exactly also they get covered up by like every other mob that's in the area too and like then you're stuck in an animation lock and it's like kind of uh yeah it's not necessarily great I remember having that happen whenever I was playing on the the beta yeah that's not ideal uh has been what have you been playing how would you rate it I'm gonna be honest I played Barbarian at the beginning and uh holy [ __ ] like 50 one to 50 as a barbarian or a druid in my opinion is not fun but I've just finished getting all my legendary Powers getting my Paragon and so like I feel like I played Whirlwind Barbarian and it's only gotten more fun like every level I get it's just more and more fun so like it started as like maybe a three or four and then I'm like level 50 now it's like a six or a seven and now I'm level 75 I've got pretty much everything that I need minus like one or two things and I would say now I'm sitting at probably a nine or a ten why because I just spend the win and that's it I only have to look at the screen well yeah I've played uh I've played three classes so I did the first hundred push on a sork in a group and so I haven't really experienced the solo sorkia and I tried playing a little bit after the group but my character is so weak after the group push I would say Sorkin a Duo eight or nine it was so fun because there's so much Synergy with other sorts so I think a four-man sort group would be really fun um and then I did I'm doing Rogue right now which I think I'm like level 90 or something and especially with like the shadow imbue that's like for Poe players and stuff that like feels like Pee-Wee right you get those huge explosions an absolute blast and and the royal guy got boosted to level 50 and it felt like a dream even when I started playing it I got Druid boosted too and I drew it at 50 after getting boosted is the closest I've come to hating the game like that I have heard people said it's better if you play yourself from 1 to 50 so you have some of the gear but like starting Druid after a boost was just like I'm in pain I would give Drew like a three after getting boosted so that really needs you don't have those legendary Powers I've none of the legendary powers and then Auto attack is like it's like me but in the game it couldn't be more useless so I I've seemed rude is like super sick when you have the stuff you need but it's uh very painful with that yeah I think Druid probably has like the most insane scaling with like legendaries and uniques and everything and you have nothing you just don't do anything after getting boosted yeah I can say that's probably very painful I I've never felt so represented in a video game before but no it's uh it's been really fun like I definitely want to try everything to around like 70. maybe everything to 100 but yeah that's a lot to do yeah I feel like grinding to 100 and this is like one of the things like we were talking about for like a minute before we started it's like grinding to a hundred like I'm 75 and I'm already starting to hit like a bit of a plateau like do you guys feel like after you get to like I don't know like 70 or 80 or so the progression kind of kind of stops for the most part because I feel like it doesn't I don't think it's going to feel as rewarding like getting to 100. yeah it's definitely true oh so yeah it kind of stops when you get like most of your first ancestral gear set and then after that you're only even fishing for like considerable upgrades because if it's like five percent better you're like yeah I'm not using their souls to re-roll it or whatever so yeah for some people that's that's like level 61. um I feel like there's this like end game part where I mean those of us that kind of planned out our builds it starts to really like a complete like completely fill the Paragon board in like the 90s and then there's this Gap that's like a good 50 to 150 hours in between of kind of doing the same thing yeah I agree with that as well so you know most builds are kind of like online at like you know level 60 70 like you have like you know you have one or two most important glyphs you have like all of your legendaries and if you don't even lie on like unique let's say you know like especially with roots I guess if you lie on certain uniques for example for certain builds yeah you have like everything you need basically like the entire build like the gameplay doesn't really change anymore right you don't click this like it's one item and suddenly you know you you can swap in like another skill and you know you you don't do this like major adjustments anymore it's just like the Paragon progression and it feels good still to like get those paragon levels like I really like that you kind of keep building the Paragon board and you I don't know a few more little things here and there it feels nice to progress it but it definitely slows down and I can imagine that especially for people that play a lot less it's gonna be a bit of a drag so it's probably fine for me because I just play all day every day and like I you know I need like a food levels to get to 100 basically but yeah a lot of people you know they need the weeks or something or if they even hit 100 right so yeah I I think the biggest problem for me is especially when you're done with the campaign you're effectively doing the same content and level two and level 98 right it's there's not really a difference so I think that's going to change a lot with seasons and adding more different forms of content if you have you know nightmare dungeons hell tides and like three or four other things that breaks up that are not uh autonomy a lot yeah I definitely agree with that I think that just more different types of content is something that's like really really important because like if you compare like obviously a lot of people are going to compare talk about this a lot since everybody here has played Poe right one of the things that I think is is good with Path of Exile is that there are a lot of different ways to play the game right you can do bossing you can do like delirium Maps magic find Etc and like you have a lot of different ways to play and I think that's one way that people stay engaged with the game for a long period of time is like this is something that World of Warcraft did well too is that you can effectively play multiple different games inside of playing World of Warcraft because of how many different other gameplay Loops there are and hopefully Diablo 4 keeps adding more of those to keep people more engaged after just like spam running nightmare dungeons gets monotonous because that's what kind of burned me out of Diablo 3 is just doing greater riffs all the time yeah I absolutely agree with that as well I know and I mean it's also like soaking back to the death chat that we just saw earlier they did say that you know one of the main focus actually is the content right they want to add new content first before they start adding you know like these other smaller fixes they're just gonna like bring them in over time basically right so I would definitely expect that you know right now the game is like yeah mildly empty in terms of like the variety of content but as the seasons come in and as you know they start adding more stuff and it's probably going to be something like you know they have a different side contents to do right so you have hell tight now and Nightmare dungeons here and then there's gonna be the season one thing there and then it's gonna be season two thing there and there's gonna be like another Uber boss so I think that's kind of like how it's gonna go and then you know like two three four seasons Down the Line it's gonna be a completely different picture I think yeah I'm I'm a big fan of how they do Uber bosses with Lilith being like super over tuned right now like I think they do that in WoW as well right where it's like kind of overtune most people can't do it early I'm a big fan of that form of balancing um instead of it being you know a good difficulty from start and then they can nourish it over time I love that yeah so yeah apparently everyone has something to say about the boss yeah crefko uh uh I hate that boss like for first of all every single thing one shots you I don't think that like we're going from an arpg to a platformer at that point and some classes get so punished like the sorks get so wrecked like you have to kill the the ball thing and it's not affected by almost any crowd control so I just like I just don't do damage with firewall no way to kill that thing so it's like crazy limiting for classes and defenses just don't matter anymore like that's like I don't it it doesn't there's no transition from the entirety of the rest of the game to that there's nothing in between we're going like from like a 12 out of 100 for difficulty to like a hundred it's like a different game well this may be also just because you generally just you know you level up and leveling is not really hard but for example if you would start doing nightmare dungeon pushing you know trying to get to like closer to tier 100 pushing then you would probably experience like a similar difficulty level yeah which right now it's not really incentivized but I guess it will be eventually with leaderboards or you know maybe special drops or whatever you might get in higher tiers but yeah if there was like a more like difficult endgame content besides just the Uber boss you would probably not feel it's like huge gap so I think but I agree though with this that it's nice that it's like really overtuned and really hard um at least for now you know it's like better this way than just like going in and having nothing to do and then you kill her in like two attempts and well then what right at least now people have a kind of like something to like you know bang their head against the wall and uh you know overcome a challenge you know it's an actual Challenge and uh so far I think every class besides swords have beaten it actually so at least what I've seen so that's kind of current I'm sorry yeah I agree with Crypt it's probably like really rough but uh maybe someone will figure something out so I feel like if no sort can beat it it's probably tuned badly I mean like because you you have like there's a point where things are hard and then there's also a point where they are so difficult that certain classes are just non-starters I think that every class should be able to beat a boss with like a certain relative amount of ease especially if these are like Pinnacle challenges that everybody is supposed to Aspire to it kind of sucks whenever somebody has to climb you know theoretically you know 10 feet but somebody else has to climb a mile issue though yeah I agree with that there oh you think that they should just buff sork rather than Nerf the boss I think that's a good point yeah yeah because especially if sork just has a huge single Target issue and a huge issue with like not dealing damage to things affected by crowd control that's something we're then going to see on every single boss right yeah exactly I would love to I'd love to see that I also think it's more of a sock issue than like the boss itself like the boss you know having monster mechanics I think it's totally fine you know if you have like the kills that we see they're like a few minutes you have to dodge these waves for a few minutes which actually comes down to like you know maybe like 10 or 15 good Dodgers or throughout the entire fight and then it's basically over so this is not too much to ask for someone who wants to beat like the hardest boss in the game basically so it's more about actually fixing Zork single Target I think yeah what do you feel about like the rewards for that boss because like it doesn't really drop anything good does it no that that was very disappointing I guess a lot of us were expecting that's where crests dropped right yeah yeah we wanted it but no it's just the amount it's just the mountain which I like that they have a cosmetic behind it I think that's very cool but yeah it would be nice if it you know dropped at least a lot of uniques or a chance for shotgun Visage grandfather yeah I mean I have to kind of kind of like find a balance writing Poe for example boss fights have a cost and then the rewards that you get from the boss are kind of like tied to that causes all right it counts as like chain run Uber cortex all day long or something right you need to farm the cortex and here there's no entrance entry like ticket right so you can just go in and farm little if you want so if they would make a similar system like Poe where you have like limited attempts or like you know like there's tickets so to say to enter Then they couldn't give it like insane drops of course but if you can just Farm her and you have a builder just you know two shots sir easy peasy you just get like a kill every two minutes then you can't just like Prince chargers right so that'll be a bit of a problem as long as they're not tradable is that really a bad thing right I mean if you have a build that's so good that you can Farm Uber Lilith that fast like at that point don't you deserve to have all the best gear you know I guess at least here is like crazy at that point yeah definitely yeah I agree and also like I don't know I'm a big fan of Mephisto farming so even if it was tradable I do love stuff like that I love like a repeatable farmable boss like that that's probably my favorite thing and what I spend the most amount of hours doing in Diablo 2. so something I'm really looking forward to is eventually Diablo eventually getting so much more unique items much more legendary aspects and stuff like that I love like dropping things like that right I mean in general I think I'm kind of Against the Grain on this one with the with the boss I actually don't really like it across the board you guys haven't convinced me unfortunately either um and the loot is a really big part for me like I I kind of agree with that a little bit like even in Poe if if it's a hard boss and it doesn't drop anything I want I'm still not gonna bother for it I'm gonna just focus on a different part of the game but I think the the real shortfall for Diablo 4 is that um defenses are kind of conditional but it's so much easier to scale defenses than it is to scale offense and because of that it's going to be really difficult for them to not have bosses that are actually difficult and don't One-Shot you with every single thing they do and I think that's a challenge that they're gonna have to overcome somehow like if you look at like a pair of pants or like a chest you just get like four stats and each one increases your survivability by like 15 which is crazy but then there's there's no DPS comparison to that like like I I didn't realize it would be that kind of game it made me rethink like the glass Cannon passive on a sore it's like well I don't want to take more damage but actually you know damage is more of a premium than survivability in this game but then I don't know how they're gonna fix bosses with with that in mind yeah so during the dev stream today they talked about how they talked about resistances and first they said we were confused about it but maybe they meant like the communities confused why they're so bad um but I don't know how they fixed resistances but the fact that we only have four slots on gear right like if resistances would be super mandatory that would be very hard to fit in right now with those four spots it'd be very hard to fit say getting 50 or 70 of all resist right now yeah I agree I think the point that [ __ ] makes here is is like maybe a general issue with the game that defensive stats especially the stats on like chests and pants are like way too powerful right you literally have like a legendary aspect in one single stat line on your pants and then you have another one and another one and another one so I think they're just like really overturned defensive stats on the high end at least you know you get you roll like 20 close damage reduction and then you like get 50 bonus on that because of the upgrades and it's ridiculous so I think those just seem to be tuned down so there's not like so much like you know uh up and down between like a very defensive build and a mediocre or defensive build right so there needs to be like a more streamlined difficulty curve with the defenses that he can build which is also like one one major thing that I think a lot of people do wrong right A lot of people always ask me like man I keep dying all the time if you build like what can I do and and I tell them guys guys look at your chest and look at your pants and get some get some big pants you know basically so this is what you have to do in order to play it again and exactly like this if they would Nerf these stats a little bit then these defensive choices that you do in other slots would matter a lot more like the aspects and all that and then you can like balance out the difficulty in general I think that's essentially right what I was thinking but the the issue feels like the entire game not not just even gear is kind of leveraged towards giving damage a premium and survivability is just like wherever like if you make the tankiest character possible you can maybe start to like I think a Barb can tank some of the little one shots maybe I think with everything Barb can tank most things except the waves yeah so like that but if you compare it to Poe defense is the premium in Poe right so and and you get damage just to reduce the fight length so there's this balance between defense and offense as a result of that but when you have like offense as a premium and defenses everywhere like I I just think they yeah they probably shouldn't have some of the defensive stats like like Woody is saying but like it goes a lot further than just stats on gear in in this game like I think the whole game is kind of developed that way that damages the premium they just didn't want to repeat Diablo 3 in that in that in mind I think I do appreciate that though I I really appreciate not seeing like oh 9 million more damage with meteor and stuff like that that's my that's literally the only reason why I hate Diablo 3. yeah the numbers were so ridiculous like I think wajido I saw a clip of you where you hit for like 400 quadrillion or something like this it was like I didn't even like I thought it was click bait and I watched it and it wasn't like what the [ __ ] how did that even happen well this is what happens when you don't listen to the people that say you know Nerf something instead of buff everything you know like if you always listen to people that say oh please buff everything else because this one thing is too strong you know like it happens every single time but you can't do that because then you land in the other free end well yeah but yeah in general I think that I agree that like it's nice to have like relatively in small numbers in D4 so I think that the numbers that we have you know like you know like around 10K live and like you know you hit like in the hundreds of K maybe Millions on like the high end of like some hard-hitting stuff yeah that's that's really nice you know this numbers are okay um and if it stays around that level it will be good and yeah they can definitely tweak the the defenseless I think this is something at least long term they should take a look at again like I think they really overdid it with these defenses uh to you know that it's nice that it can have defensive choices on a gear but they should not be like so mandatory that he you know you give up like two times for 30 damage reduction or three times or something and then of course you can go on one shot by everything right and the other extremists you do is tank everything so yeah yeah no it's uh it's a little bit crazy I think also like people like one big difference between like Diablo and Poe and why people build defense more and Poe is because there's more of a punishment for dying and PeeWee right you lose experience Diablo you just lose time which I mean I'll be honest I hate losing experience so I'm fine with that but I think that obviously if you if you don't lose anything whenever you die there's less of an incentive to not die yeah because you just lose durability in Diablo which is it's pretty crazy yeah I wonder yeah I mean I mean technically they're both time but I mean the Gold Coast is pretty small right I haven't played software so yeah I think it's like pretty relevant right it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter at all right I am I'm actually more of a fan of losing experience when you die because I like I like to play hardcore but I don't want to like level a whole new character I I like the middle ground I like the medium core that's why in in POA I like playing ruthless because the much rougher experience curve like you very slowly are drifting towards hardcore like if you want to level past like 95 and periodless you cannot die like if you die every like three days you're never going to level so it just it's it's really this kind of cool medium core and I don't know it might be personal preference but I I do like losing some experience if I do like deaths being meaningful like right now if I die I think 10 times I lose a hundred thousand gold like a hundred thousand wow yeah I'll take minutes to get back yeah exactly yeah I I agree with that so I think that like you know the lack of like uh any kind of like like loss I guess for death is is kind of um a problem for like softcore but I mean there's always hardcore I mean we can play hardcore but yeah hardcore is like too extreme for some people especially if how long it takes to double red if you lose it in 100 character I mean it's actually like weeks gone for some people so and you lose them to a DC too like that sounds so crazy like I've been watching these compilations and it's like I used to always watch like these classic wow death compilations and it was funny to see somebody like randomly jump off and just die to fall damage or something stupid but like it's actually just it makes me mad watching the Diablo 4 like hardcore death compilations whenever it's I'm disconnecting and then they log back in and it's like your character's in the Hall of Heroes now so apparently they're they're fixing that though I I heard that they're adding in the scroll today they said that well that's season two that's coming in yeah of Escape will automatically proc when you disconnect but in season two so that is like six thirty seven months away yeah um four months but yeah it's like it's like four months of pain until it's fixed yeah I mean they said actually like years ago already that the scroll is supposed to work that way and uh basically then you know open Beta came around and I tried it out and stuff and you know I'm not sure I made like a video um about like all these exploits they can do on Hardcore away just don't die right you can like you can like log out instantly and I was able to revive my character with task manager in the right moment like it died on my screen but I did it of the right timing and I could come back in and my character was there so they fixed all that luckily but they never fixed the scroll that just doesn't trigger and now we have to wait another four months like what is taking so long like why is that such a problem man I I do not understand why it takes six months for a gym tab that's crazy good it's it's the same reason why we're not getting I think a number of fixes like resistances like why is it why does it take that long because the resistances you can do an easy fix where it's like instead of 40 cold resist just reduce cold damage taking by 40 like it's yeah it's pretty easy it's not it's not even powerful it's just not completely useless right so I think the reason is and I think they kind of admitted to it on the stream today uh season one's basically shipped any any kind of system change they have to make it in both the live version and season one and I think that's like crazy development time that they now realize they can't really afford because there's still a lot left to do with like the general game so I think they're gonna have a big focus on season two I think that's what we're gonna see yeah season two will fix you all before [Laughter] playing it okay we're still in in the bag here yeah I mean it's something good that they have like a timeline though if like you know at least they're giving us you know they're identifying the problems and they're giving us you know a bit of a timeline and you know if something to look forward to even if it's not coming you know so soon you know I mean at least I know I'm gonna be here to blast season one I'm gonna be here to blast season two Etc and there's always like okay ah this is coming you know and improvements are coming so this is kind of like the the light on the horizon so to say the the squirrel of Escape stuff in particular has been so funny for me as a Peewee player because obviously like logout macro is such a Hot Topic right and I've been asking people in my chat they're like oh logout macro is cheating it's awful I hate it and I've been like so how do you feel about Scroll of escape and they're like oh no that's fine and I'm like okay okay and I'm like well but Scrolls can't be stronger like it's better than Logan America so I'm like okay at this point grading your games please just like we can have a scroll of Escape in path of excel then it eradicates the entire discussion so I'm like this is great I mean there's one thing here look at macro is infinite and skull of Escape is not I think if score of Escape was a lot more rare it would be a lot cooler like like I think I've literally like 200 Scrolls to escape in my stash right now like I rarely use it and it just keep dropping like you know sometimes you know here and there like you know in a dungeon right and if there was like maybe 10 of this drop rate and I would have gathered like in all one score of Escape per five hours or something like that you know I think this would be a very reasonable value where like sometimes you have to you know Escape out of like a boss fight that you maybe under underestimated or something or like you have to kill a little attempt way scroll out after the death proc which is another topic I guess and um you know these kind of things so I didn't have a DC protection of course whenever it comes so I think the score of Escape is just too common so it's it's kind of causing an issue with that see okay oh go ahead yeah I disagree a little with that because obviously I I do play RPGs a lot but I'd say I've used less than five Scroll of Escape I think maybe three I misclicked it a few times but like I'm like consciously been like okay I need to get out of here less than five times so don't use it a lot but the main purpose is for like disconnects and stuff right that's where it like alleviates the most pain in an ideal scenario where there was like no server issues no crashes you wouldn't want to cheat death Elixir or squirrel of Escape it is like really nice that it does alleviate the crushing issues so I don't know if it necessarily needs to be super rare yeah like uh I know you guys have the um you know the expectations to your viewers to play hardcore and all but I don't want to hear any complaints for anyone that willfully chose to play hardcore on Diablo 4 given what they've seen in the server slam and the previous weekend and the crazy differences and bugs and like they've had a miraculous launch in terms of like server stability and still you guys have no excuses like it's you know you're asking for trouble and nope the bad end actually always no matter what offline anything but still yeah you're right I actually recommend that people play software on Diablo 4 particularly because of the DC issues uh but yeah I've been very impressed with their launch very impressed oh I am too I think that the launches overall actually been good and it might sound like everybody always like talks about how bad like each of these launches are and like going into what people thought it was going to be awful I actually think the launch went pretty well same yeah I do I think it went quite well yeah no I mean there there's obviously things that can be improved and I've been very surprised at like the the anti-criticism crowd that's been like the biggest surprise to me I've seen so many people have like legitimate criticism of things that can get better and people are like oh you hate the game and I'm like What's Happening Here like that's that's been crazy to me well that's blizzard Gamers you know that's what you get and uh yeah I've had to deal with that for a long time with Wow and so it's just like yeah any time that you suggest any sort of an improvement there's always some reason why you're wrong no I understand yeah it's been very interesting I think the reason why we're all still like within a positive attitude and why a lot of the things that are coming out people are trying to be constructive one thing they have done really well is um kind of impress the community with doing changes when no one like when I played the beta weekend I thought that was it you know I thought the balance looked like a complete mess uh and I'm like yeah it is what it is um gave the game a six it really surprised me that they tackled anything uh between that point and the launch let alone in a pretty good way I would say I think they did actually address many of like the build issues at least and then again on launch they were just actively doing it I know some people hate the Nerfs and all that but I think they've they've really impressed a lot of the like really die hard players because yeah certainly exceeded expectations I thought we're playing the beta weekend to this day like the extended version of it yeah I I honestly agree with that I I mostly agree the one thing that was very frustrating though is that some of like the really glaring issues that people have been reporting for like six to eight months before from the early betas Etc uh like the the Barb infinite stacking damage and stuff the fact that that got nerfed like a day or two while they're officially holding a hardcore race that that peeved a lot of people off like that could have been done before lunch yeah probably but generally I I totally agree with what Crips that like the like overall the balance things they are doing really impressed me with like how on point they were generally I mean not everything is like property balanced but you can definitely notice that they are targeting the right things either with Buffs or with nerves in my opinion so there's like nothing where I think like why did this happen you know and that is a really good really good um yeah like a point to go from from here on right when they do like other you know adjustments or they maybe introduce new items or you know try to bring up other builds so that's that's definitely really nice I think they have like a good team there like working on the balance in general so of course like some stuff you know we talked about socks single Target Etc there might be like some kind of like systemic issues with uh with some classes or like certain builds or so but we're definitely moving to a point where yeah things are in a really good spot I think I kind of want to just uh add in like I think sork is a bit underpowered but I think the different sork Arc types are actually really well balanced between each other it's like something more damage but there's this this kind of curve where the more damage you do the less survivability you have and I think with class identity being as strong as it is it's actually more important that the classes builds is more are more balanced amongst each other than the classes are balanced because like if you want just you know a crowd control character or a birth character would like sork in a party you can't you can't you know substitute that so all classes have this uniqueness to them I don't think it's that important that the classes do the same damage compared to one another as it might be in other games they have that with Diablo 3 right it's like each different class had its own leaderboard so it's like you weren't really competing against like the top person on leaderboards you were competing against the top person for your class on leaderboards I think it gets a little bit more messy whenever you have like Pinnacle bosses that are kind of like benchmarks that every class needs to overcome but in general yeah just like making sure that one class isn't like you know 5x more powerful than the other ones and I think I mean I will completely agree with you guys I I feel like a lot of what happened with uh with Diablo after release and even like leading up to it like the amount of changes they've made and everything I've been genuinely impressed with blizzard like they've done a great job I I think on the on the stork issue in particular I think I feel a little differently there but you're probably right and if there was a stork only leaderboard I'd probably feel differently but if like just look at my experience with Druid now right and wrote I had such a blast on Rogue and I'm obviously going to compare my druid to that same experience I went on Druid and I'm like this is [ __ ] hell I hate this so I I'm just like I'm not comparing it to how fast am I killing monsters I'm like my road was blasting an entire screen at this point now I'm running around like I'm out of energy I'm out of energy and I'm just like miserable like I'm me in the game and I don't want to be me in the game so yeah just miserable so I I at least for me I will always compare one class to another yeah go ahead sorry now I was just going to say that quickly that uh you know they couldn't answer this like you know tweak maybe the early game was leaking progression a bit right on something else it's like you know like Druid comes online way too late basically but the early game is kind of like yeah so they can maybe you know like for example reduce the base cost of skill or give you like more Spirit generation and you know like tweak it down somewhere else right that's on some of the later progression stages like the paragons for example right the paragons are really powerful I want to do it compared to other classes sometimes so you know there are some of these examples where they can like move power from one part of the game to another part and then it would feel a greater overall well they've got to have like an internal scaler for like how much a spell does each level right so I feel like it it can't be that hard to just change some of those numbers up at the beginning for Druids and for uh for barbarians because I feel like at the very beginning of the game that's actually the most important part of the game because for a lot of people if that part isn't Fun they don't make it to the late game you know it doesn't matter to them like oh it gets fun after you know 15 hours 30 hours they're gone after 15 minutes yeah exactly it is exactly the point that comes out of this I guess so um speaking of the nurse they've done they've obviously been nerfing a lot of dungeons there's been some short dungeons with a large amount of Elites and stuff like that and even the longer dungeons they've been like nerfing some of the density I wonder how you guys feel about this because I would say even like the most dense dungeon has felt a little sparsely populated for me obviously it's very different for me for Poe so I wouldn't know yeah like has been how do you guys feel about the dungeon density uh I like it whenever uh there's a lot of mobs because I like killing a lot of mobs at the same time I think it's just like really cool and like you know like in Poe where you have like a giant pack of mobs and you proc like Harold of ice and there's like the pop you know it's so good yeah and like in Diablo like at the very beginning of the game where there'd be like 10 Elites and like one random room and you just like pop all your your spells you use your old they're all dead and there's like two legendaries that drop it feels good so like obviously they need to balance the stuff but I would rather that with like these higher nightmare dungeons because obviously this has been like something they've been struggling with like incentivizing I I wish that they would increase the density and increase increase and change the mob types inside of the uh the higher tier nightmare dungeons to make them more rewarding fundamentally by like having just a higher Elite density or maybe like a higher chance to spawn butchers or something like that something to make them more interesting rather than just doing the same thing but there's a bigger number for the mob yeah I think that's a really great suggestion um from asthma uh like actually changing the you know the way that you play for a dungeon in some way right so you only have this kind of distinction between like tier one and then tier 10 and tier 21 Essentials and stuff like you get like more affixes and stuff uh that's in addition to it here and the level scaling also make the runs a bit different maybe you know adding more density would be also one way to like yeah just like spice it up more right so this is definitely a definitely really cool idea but I think also that for example the seasonal content is missing right now I think for example we get seasonal content it's gonna be probably similar to the poe Maps where you're also going to see that in dungeons right or at least some of it right or there's like a chance for it to appear I guess it's gonna be like a very similar system in the end so there's also probably why the dungeons feel a bit empty now and why there's any nerfing the density to kind of like make space for such a system where there are these seasonal mechanics that just come in sometimes and then you have the butcher here you have like the season one thing there and you have a season two thing there in the other dungeon or something right it's like imagine if you could do a nightmare dungeon and it could proc as an affix that every Elite is replaced with the butcher see butcher Butcher is so annoying because he's not rewarding like at all he's a legendary and if you're doing a Sigil he always drops I think two sigils yeah he's Grace what do you mean which is perfect I would rather always kill him in a randomly yeah I I feel like he's not that rewarding him now and he's not rewarding enough yeah I don't know I just I'd like to see them add in like more types of monsters like the butcher because like what do you what do you all think about the uh the events inside of the dungeons like the hostage save me from like the waves and then like you know random like mob breathes on her like and in like tier four and she's dead but like theoretically I because like the way that I feel about the little events is that I skip every single one of them unless I'm just in a weird mood and I feel like doing it and the reason for that is because you can't really speed it up like it disrupts the flow do you guys do the same thing so some some of the events are pretty good um yeah you kind of have to know which ones they are because most of them do kind of suck yeah but I think a lot of the issue is like so especially the save me thing it's like oh save me first you have to find the like the the kneeling guy like under your pile of corpses and loot and then you click on them then you have to click on them again but you have to wait like five seconds in between and then the event starts but it doesn't really start until like 30 seconds later it's starting to drip like one mob every five seconds and then two mobs after ten seconds and like three mobs at like the 15 seconds and then yeah you get the build up after like a minute where you get kind of get swarmed with Mobs but the the ramp is too slow the the RP is too slow everything's just too slow so yeah I think they just need to speed up a lot of them I also don't think they're hell scales by going in higher dungeons because like in higher ones they seem to like they get one shot especially if you have like the goblin explorers it's a save me they're all gone okay [ __ ] this I'm leaving yeah absolutely true and what group said it makes makes absolute sense I think it would be way cooler if like these events were generally like beefed up but more rare so you know I don't want to see like every single dungeon like this was actually kind of the opposite of what it was in like the the open Beta right it had like a 10 chance and then it buffed it to 60 chance and now you see like all the time and then there's also the cursed chest and then there's also the cursed Shrine and then it's occurs well and I had like Dungeons where I had like four different events because of that and it's just you know it's kind of nice that it can be multiple things but I think it's like yeah too often and if they just like made them more rewarding but like a business weekend you know because there are these different triggers and again as we just talked about there's probably going to be season mechanics coming in as well you know it's nice if like you don't see the same events all the time right there should just be more rare and like way juicier so yeah yeah I like the purple chest thing that's like decent but like especially my my least favorite thing right now is when I have a sleigh everything Zone and I click on a shrine and it's cursed because it spawns like three monsters I kill those three here's another three monsters I kill those three here's four monsters I kill those four and then like the last two waves is like a bunch of Elites and a bunch of monsters but I'm like I would like come on this is like very disruptive to the flow here it's very unenjob it doesn't feel good like I feel like after you do your five waves whenever you do one of those every single wave after that should have one Elite and then like six has one Elite seven has two Elites and just see how far you can go yeah things like that shouldn't feel like a punishment yeah I'm totally agree with a bit of a differing opinion to the Mob density so before we kind of lose weight track of that yeah maybe pitch that in there um so the mobs get much dumber when there's more of them like mobs in this game have this thing or they like bump into each other and [ __ ] and I get there okay so if there's like one mob it's really easy if it's two it's pretty easy the peak difficulty is at like five or six coming from different sides of the screen because when you get to like 30 you just like kite them they'll just they're not even attack bumping into each other especially if you're playing sork like if you're playing sork once you hit like 30 mobs you literally have infinite damage with a firewall build like it right it just they can't move the damage keeps going up and up and up because one one thing's triggering another thing trigger another thing so I I like the idea of maybe slightly higher density than we're experiencing but I think they're really doing that to like maintain the difficulty given how they given how the mobs behave in this game I would say yeah the mobs just don't work very well when there's tons of them yeah I think that's a good Insight yeah definitely I mean I could 100 see that personally I I don't mind it I I like having the high density with Mobs but if they don't really play well I think that really what people are asking for with high density is just like more rewarding Dungeons and less downtime I think that it's not necessarily about how many mobs there are it's more about how many times you're just like running from area to area and there's like two of the little Fallen guys running after you it's like kind of annoying in that way so I think that if they added in like I think that they need something that's like a higher tier of elite than what we have something in between like an elite and the butcher and just like to have those existing in Dungeons and for people to like fight them and want to fight them because they give better rewards yeah I think that'd be a good thing that's something Grim Dawn does really well is the special monsters in that is very very exciting to find and stuff like that with monster infrequence which is like a special drop type so yeah for me it's also like the down time I still think I would enjoy higher density because yeah something like the fireball thing and just everything exploding on screen that always feels good to me I think it has been said with Harold device I just I love seeing big shatters that's why I'm loving the Rogue so much yeah I agree with that as well it's kind of nice to like blow up like large packs for example right now I'm playing like a death trap build and it like pulls in like half the screen and then they also like vanish basically so it feels really good but I don't think it needs to happen like you know literally every five seconds or so I think it's fine if that's like sometimes these big packs and then sometimes like these smaller packs with like you know one or three Elites but you know most of the time I don't know maybe it's just my builds but I go really fast and you know none of these fights really are like big fights right now it's just like yeah yeah I just blast it down move on right and then there's like this down time in between that you try to overcome as quickly as possible by just you know using a dash using your invade to go to the next pack if there was like more monsters like in between like not just necessarily bigger packs but more monsters that just fill up the empty space then this will probably feel a lot more like you know like an action RPG right where we don't need to blow up entire screens we just need to like not around for like 20 seconds straight without anything so this would be already a massive Improvement I think having like slower and more like in individual in PC based gameplay is actually kind of a good thing though and I kind of like that about like especially the beginning of Diablo 4 and like even Diablo 3 had this a bit where you're really going through a dungeon and you're fighting one Elite and you're actually beating that specifically I kind of don't mind that like the slower Pace to it but I feel like the problem is that if you don't have that be like uniform across all the different dungeons everybody's just going to run the same dungeon over and over and over and everything's just going to default back to that I think that's almost always gonna happen the only thing that will change that is the Nightmare sigils and the fact that you can't run the same dungeon that's why I was still even with the new nightmare dungeon changes I was hoping they would address scaling at some point and have you know because people will want to level characters to 100 and if that for just XP is still just running dungeons people will do that I was hoping dungeons healing would stop like the normal ones would stop at like 88 or something because you like have to do nightmare dungeons to go like past yeah well they could just make Nightmare dungeons rewarding enough that people will be running that but yeah so I mean they are rewarding already and they're gonna buff them significantly like there's no doubt for me that nightmares is the meta like after this patch comes out so even right now like as a solo player I I've tested this like last few days or so like on my builds I was doing like some of these dungeons that people were suggesting which was ruins of erudu pre-nurf and I was doing Blind boroughs and you know all this kind of stuff and I timed it a little bit and I was getting pretty much almost the same XP that I was getting in Nightmare dungeons by just running like good visuals that were like you know over my level basically so if you can do them quickly and and effectively like the nightmare lessons are already almost on the same level as this dungeon span that everyone is doing and not talking about like Google play here so yeah yeah Group Play obviously yeah but yeah the rippiness okay yeah it's definitely rippier but I mean this is not a concern for like the software release I think so yeah it's harder to do nightmare dungeons that's for sure but it's also rewarding in terms of the loot you get more uniques there and you also get the glyphs so you know a lot of people I think underestimate the power of lists and then they're kind of like weak and they're like looking at my at my stream and you know they're saying oh you do so much damage like why is my rock not doing that much damage I have 10 000 attack power and you have only seven well it's because I have my glutes leveled and everyone else just running normal dungeons of course your character sucks you know so yeah this is how it is so you know that people are really underestimating that like power progression yeah I mean that's what I've been doing now on my rogue is I've actually been doing all the nightmare schedules and getting all my Clips up to well soft cap level now at least I have them all at 15. um I'll probably try to get a few to 21 and see how big the difference is but I really want to discuss a little bit about the nightmare sigil mods like the blood blister the um there's so many I hate that red thing that runs after you that shit's so annoying oh the like big crystals oh my God yeah I hate that I don't mind the crystal so much but like I I hate the lightning from the sky one but like that that's at least my take on it it's like so many of them are very they're oppressive they're very oppressive they're so they're exhausting like I wish they were more like the nightmare dungeon portal one I love the portal yeah it's like Beyond in Path of Exile and I really enjoy it the Elder portals or something yeah so many of the other ones are just straight up oppressive like the um what's the red like plasma beams they fire out on death yeah oh this one I hate death poles I actually I hate half of them I over half of them I love I actually don't mind drifting shade I don't mind the crystal that follows you but I really hate the lightning from the sky and like a few of them are just insane I really feel this kind of ties into I kind of want to pitch in on the last topic I think I think you guys are I think the people that like nightmare sigils are just like built a little differently where they're not triggered by the terrible quality of life of running back and forth and figuring out which mods are okay and knowing which ones are good which ones are not um finding it on the map managing the in the inventory doing the math on the levels to know which ones are actually efficient like not everyone can just you know minus 51 the Character level like you know Snappy right yeah and like I think that like magnifies like crazy in a group environment and I think because group environment is rewarded more than solo play you're kind of missing that Mark a little bit like having like four people on the same page with all this stuff is is is such a mess and yeah when you throw in the mods as well you know you're trying to organize with your groups who hates what mods with their build like oh my God bro we are we are way off the deep end on this one in terms of our sanity some of them are like just annoying or whatever I think that it's it's about like how to make the the affixes like more interesting and like fun rather than just making them like annoyances I know that like World of Warcraft had this problem with uh Mythic plus dungeons where it's like Mythic plus dungeons every single one of the affixes is just like what is going to annoy you this week rather than what's going to make the fight like more interesting or challenging yeah I'd rather see more like damage mods Health mods things like that more things like the nightmare portal um and honestly I think the volcano one is pretty good as a dangerous mod like I think that one is like a little bit less oppressive than the rest but so many of them I'm like I just don't want to run this dungeons I'm not enjoying these mods so I would love to see them like add like a bigger pool of things they can roll when we were running in a party there were so many things we didn't want to run because especially if you're doing uh split farming right because xb's share dungeon wine if you have the lightning from the sky one they're like okay well that lightning protection thing is only following one player so the other three are taking full damage every time that's great yeah combine the asthma's idea of butchers and stuff doesn't all have to be downsides it can be area has five butchers as one of the mods yeah you can you can choose if you want to do that one or not you know these these downside upside things I love I love those kinds of decisions in in arpgs where where something is not necessarily A downside right now every single one of those mods is a downside and half of them are really annoying yeah yeah it's pretty annoying too and then I'm important I tested it they actually give you XP so I guess yeah technically I've K found them so I just call it Beyond yeah okay it's beyond yeah but the suggestion that group made is really good with um you know like having something that is like not necessarily A downside right so if there's like more stuff like that like that that could be really cool as well but I gotta say personally I don't really mind like almost any of the nightmare uh affixels it's only about yeah death Powers it's like it's a super Rippy so yeah like on Hardcore you just don't run that and then there's resource burn which is sucks that was insane yeah I like resource brand though yeah it's it's kind of like an interesting affix but it's like way to overtuned I think so if that was like tuned down I think that would be more reasonable but also on that Tech honestly I almost never pay attention to the ipixels like it's just kind of like whatever but uh yeah it would be cool to see like more variety right like even more effects it's like you see like you know you run like five Dungeons and then you see the rock you see that it is a portal you see the lighting storm and then either in the next one you see lightning storm again then you see the rock again so it's like too small of a pool right and it was like more variety and like more access to sizzles or even like a way to change the social you know rerun essential for example you know like randomly like you get like maybe the right dungeon to write here and they can just go to your cultist and you know do like a reroll for some powder um you know why not so yeah I'd just like to see like more I I guess like the type of variety I'd want to see and this is like such a weird example but if anybody played like Pub G back in the day like how excited people would get whenever there would be like a fog map or a rain map because it would change the way that you can play the game and like strategies that you can use in the game and I feel like that's what really makes things exciting whenever you're talking about like adding in affixes something that actually like changes gameplay in a way that's like interesting rather than like okay this is just what's going to be annoying this time rather than something else well I mean I already have like those like you know all it needs to have cold and sound that all needs have suppressors I think this definitely changed how you approach around so it kind of goes in that direction but I see it like maybe more environmental effects or you know something that like is like a global modifier of some sort right to the entire run um that could be quite interesting so maybe they can come up with some creative ideas it seems like they are for them to be creative like what they could have like a wallet system like just add like four mods and you get like exclusive access like uber butcher that can be one of the models like like the the system they set up is really open for them to be creative with them but I don't know I I I'm expecting for the first few seasons they're just keeping up with their regular content plan which is probably pretty light and polishing every system in the game yeah yeah you can see how much they put in in season one besides zombies obviously yeah I'll be really curious too because like I think that's really what like for me the reason why I stepped away from Diablo 3 is that I felt like every season kind of felt the same like it didn't really feel like I was making a lot of progression or doing anything that was like very very much meaningful yeah so like I kind of just moved away and lost interest in the game but if they were able to make the seasons like more Dynamic and different like kind of like how Poe seasons are because like in Path of Exile like you immediately start interfacing with like the new seasonal mechanic whenever you are on the beach like at the very very beginning and that's what I think that uh Diablo needs to have is like things that are like really defining and changing for pretty much everybody that's playing yeah that's the plan actually they said that it will do that so it's like within the first hour at least or something it should you should already experience the season mechanics so that's I think that's really sad it'll also be interesting to see how many balance changes they'll do in terms of like shaking up the meta so if you are generally playing the same skill I really you're probably gonna be a little bit burnt out faster as well but I gotta say that balancing is I mean I mean talk about bouncing audio right so I think generally it's it's moving towards like a really good spot where you don't have like this insane outliers you know maybe on a very high end with like the Exodia combo right certain builds like really pop off but you know on the way there I know those hundred hours of grind you can definitely play and be successful with a lot of different things right and what we talked about earlier like this needs to be balanced within the class more than across classes I think that's definitely more important for example on the Rogue right now I've been experimenting with like all kinds of builds you know I've and if anything like Rogue is probably like the most balanced class right now like basically any core skill feels good everything like you can combine so many different tools with the end viewers with the smoke grenade with the ultimates you know the only thing that is like really out of whack is the reign of arrows on Rogue versus that's awful but everything else that kind of like has a reason to exist on Rogue you know all the key passes everything so this is great so Rogue is like the prime example of like how balance should be almost and then if they get other classes kind of to that Sports that'll be great yeah I think that'll be good yeah and I wouldn't even feel like too obligated to like you know play this or that skill unless like a season starter for example uh you know that's to like race you know like okay maybe this one thing could be like an hour or two faster but you know it may have less availability so for like a hardcore race I might rip on the way or something right so um but overall I think they're in a good spot and they're just getting better with the balance I guess they do have some challenges though with with like mechanics like I don't care how much they're gonna buff Channel skills if you have to stand still to channel the skill no one's going to use that skill like it's it's just that simple I guess you could always do it in a wow is like allow you to have a legend nerd where you can move while channeling yeah but I don't like the idea of making a skill not suck just just to get a minus one gear slot you know I don't like that either incinerate on sork is so hideous it's it's hard to to describe like the the glyph that Buffs core skills increases the crit multiplier it doesn't crit you have to stand still uh the way that channel skills work is it charges you the cost and upfront and then also over the time so if you Channel it for one second it actually costs double uh and it's the lowest damage core skill on sort like I I don't know but like if if I'm like asked to use it if they make it the highest damage core skill I still wouldn't use it if they make it twice the highest damage course game I still wouldn't use it so it's it's just like a mechanically crippled skill um and I think that's the case for all the the channels so they have these things that just it really needs a bit of an overhaul there's no other oh no there's one other condition that's good right there's lightning storm Necromancer Necromancer has the decompose I guess but not a core skill right so no not a core skill yeah so it doesn't matter much on necro but it does matter on the road I guess but druida beefy boys you know they don't die so it's fine they can stand there but honestly we're enjoying that yeah I think there are definitely people that just likes to stand there and like you know we know if they're fired power fantasy of that of just being able to just endure everything attacking you and it just doesn't matter I can totally see that no one here would enjoy that but um there are people that do that I think and it would be maybe cool if they would open up some options like for incinerate in particular I guess maybe as like a double like a dual core skill set up where you know you have like a fireball and then whenever you can you follow up with an incinerate so it's not just not just standing still but you know whenever you have the the opportunity right so there could be maybe like at least an option to explore I guess yeah I think uh I want to move on to another topic of crafting and items because at least for me personally I was very surprised how enjoyable the item Chase is for being on a simpler end of a system so [ __ ] do you want to talk a little bit about items and your experience with them so far um again this is mostly from like uh sork play style uh items are fantastic on sork uh the four stat item per item is exquisitely limiting um if you want to be tanky you're always losing damage and vice versa so it's always a choice of what kind of gear you're pursuing for your character if they had five stats this would kind of go away if they had six stats you have Diablo 3 where everyone's looking for literally the same items um so the I think the four stat item the fact that you have quite a lot of agency over the items like rerolling one stats and converting rares to legendaries actually works out pretty well by the time you finish leveling a character to 100 I think your gear is like 90 of the way there and I think that's a good place to be in terms of like gearing out a character so the only thing that that is super lame is like they pitched us on some of the coolest unique items and I'm not convinced they exist um or it's something like doing a Flawless uh save the guys that are being beheaded on a nightmare dungeon 100 solo and then Shaco has a chance to draw ten percent chance yeah unless it's some crap like that I don't know this is why I have not seen a grandfather Yeah yeah probably nobody has nobody has seen that sword like we've seen one Korean Shaco and apparently I saw uh there was one dude I think it was called a doombringer or something like that I don't know what the name of the sword was and there was one of those but other than that all of these other items uh like nobody's even seen them at all which is like I mean you can compare that I think it's too low like I don't know maybe I'm being a casual here but I think like not like this is gonna because you think about it right this is gonna be the most that people are ever going to play Diablo 4 pretty much ever right because at the beginning of the game so if people aren't seeing these items now like they're not going to exist yeah because it's like incomparable Rarity to anything we've seen before right it's incomparable to materials might Mage blood or Headhunter in Path of Exile or mirror because the sheer amount of people that are playing right now is just insane level I you know what I think they're gonna do I think we're gonna get a tier five how do you guys feel about uh ornament five or whatever they call it a world tier five yeah so that has been data mined people are saying that there is one and I'm guessing that's coming with season one I would assume I I disagree I disagree I have I have a take on this I'll go I don't know exactly how D4 works but when I talked about how Diablo 2 Works people who data mine Diablo 4 told me that it works in a similar way so it's like a category of files and a lot of the files that have to do with just items and stats on a spell it's kind of like an Excel sheet so it's really easy to data mine that's why everyone's data mining this is really easy so if you're going to code a game where you might later have higher gem tiers uh yeah you're just gonna leave some extra cells in the X spreadsheet obviously you're gonna do that and I think some of these datamine guys are getting way ahead of themselves so I think they got some yeah some Tim bits of it's like this is where we're going to put the the torment five torment 10 torment 20 data when we decide to do it and then the data mine guys are just like oh my God it's happening tomorrow it's like no I think they're just they're just future proofing whereas like the data setting it's implying that it's happening in season one yeah that's what I think when they put more than just one though then uh the gyms there's more than one gem but as far as I know there's not more than one uh World tier level yeah exactly so I also agree with what [ __ ] said I think this is mostly like maybe something in the future you know maybe in the expansion like if you don't know like what expenses will do will they raise the level cap for the will we just like have the same kind of like progression over like you know squish the devils and you know like anything can happen right we don't have no information about anything of that and this might be the moment where they introduce like yet another like torment but they like you know like reduce the time it takes to get to tone five you know it's just you know a little bit faster so you know it could just could just be something like that right where they have like maybe an extra progression system you know let's say like subclasses or you know something like ascendancies whatever you know something like that might happen so um you know that there's a there's just like room for that and I think right now there's nothing I got happening and there's also no need honestly I would like them to beef up the open world content in general maybe at some point like you know like especially at level 100 there's like no reason to do anything in open world content really and there's basically only knife and dungeons which well you've already grinded you know for like 50 hours straight just so you can get 200. so in general I think the open worldcon is just lacking a bit but again this might be like a solution for season content anyway so maybe you want to go out there and want to find those seasoned monsters or whatever right so we don't know how it's gonna be but we're gonna learn soon but yeah in general I don't I don't really trust any of this data mining right now like and the same with those uniques um yeah there's some uniques or data mine that we have never seen literally like that what they said blizzard came out instead that they're in there yeah they did yeah but for none of the others really I think I think they mentioned grandfather in like one of the death streams actually so I'm not sure I did as well yeah yeah so maybe I mean they're definitely way too real I mean they release those uh stats lately with like 300 million hours played or something and there's like one chakra that we know of okay but the only thing that makes sense that if Checker let's let's argue in the the belief that Draco is in the game the only thing that makes sense then is that it's nightmare dungeon 100 plus at least and that it's really rare then because that's that there's even on software not that crazy amount of people during that amount right so if it's like meriteral Rarity or Mage blood tier Rarity like you know there's pathway style players that played 20 000 hours of Path of Exile without finding mirror people are saying that people got a shackle but I don't know yeah I've seen so many people claim they have a drop even in my own chat and like people who watch my chat are like 30. I'm sure you go to different communities everyone's found every single item they're dual wielding grandfathers on Barbarian and all like yeah I'm sure I'm sure that's the case yeah people are linking me all the streamers are very unlucky yeah exactly yeah they're stupid they don't know what they're talking about they don't know anything man so yeah May that's the only thing that makes sense maybe they manipulated the streamer client to be worse RNG than usual instead of better RNG so have you thought about that make the viewers feel better yeah it's good that probably work really well I just I want to see those items be easier to get like not actually not easier but like you know in in path Exile if you see like a Headhunter you can work towards a Headhunter incrementally and in like Diablo in original Diablo 3 you could work towards gear incrementally as well because you could get gold enough gold to buy it but like in Diablo yeah I was like how do you how do you work towards an item like everything is just like a random drop and I think that there needs to be a way to work towards those super rare drops or at least have targeted farming for them if you want to just have them in the game because other than that it just kind of it just feels weird to me so that would all change for you if you if we find out later today that it does in fact 100 draw from Nightmare Tierra level hundred right that would change right absolutely yeah right because there there it is there's your goal yes I agree so I think there's a lack of Target farming is is massive in in D4 and we're gonna notice it more and more as Seasons come in as more uniques come in as more legendaries come in right like I hear from people that you know they played a Druids true level 80 and they have not gotten a single polarized Shockwave aspect you know like imagine that you're trying to play a rare Druid a where bear Druid and you don't get your main aspect you know like you know this this kind of lack of Target farming is is you know it's cruciating I think and we definitely need like a solution like that goes somewhere in the direction of divination cards I guess I really hate donation cards but divination cards solve a problem at least you know like we need something where you can go somewhere and have like a better odd of getting the item you want or getting the aspect you want getting unique somewhere you know maybe like some kind of like you know I don't know some kind of system right it doesn't have to be divination cards directly so I have a little bit of a system and I like it but yeah they obviously need a lot more um like so Necromancer not a lot of people are going to understand how the system can be gamed but um an item can only roll like within certain items so if you if you want a certain power that's utility um one of the best place to get it is on boots because there's almost no movement aspects like Necromancer has two movement aspects right so if you want to utility yeah the best thing to do is to use like your Opals for boots so like the way I level the necro is I just did every every single world event I ran across I just did it and then I only gambled boots and then when I when I did my Capstone to go to world tier three I just spammed hell tied which also do you do the events in Hell tied and I got a crazy amount of bubbles uh I basically was about level 50 with like 10 plus two skeleton Warriors like three blizzards and like five skeleton Mages sitting in my stash so like I had like five characters worth of of of legendary powers so you you can really game it but you do need like that character knowledge and you have to warp your play style to acquire it if it's if it's going to make your character like in the case of that Drew Barbarian has that too yeah I I really like the limited Target farming that is in Diablo 2 like even if it's just things like you know Stone of Jordan has higher chance to draw from Nightmare and Daryl so you can spam Nightmare and Dario you have a bigger chance to get Stoner Jordan and I think they have a really good opportunity here with the fact that they have so many dungeons right you could have like these five aspects have a slightly higher chance to draw from this to like Droid pulverized that said if you're a Droid you really need to pull the rice you farm this dungeon if you really need the Barbarian unique Helmet or the a druid unique helmet you farm this dungeon right it's got a slightly higher chance you're not guaranteed to get it but yeah um I I think stuff like that would help the game a lot I think target farming is a huge part of arpgs and another thing that is very crazy to me in Diablo is the fact that the item level or requirement of item scales with your character which they finally addressed today I'm very happy about that what are they doing about that I didn't get a chance to see that and not doing anything I think it's just no they only they only address the fact that by the way item power is what makes characters um what makes uh item scale not the item level because apparently a lot of people have been looking at oh required level is higher this item must be better but at least that means they're looking at it right surely surely that means they're gonna surely that means they're gonna share some of that copium with the rest of us surely I have a point about this actually so um yeah so personally I actually really like the system because it makes items that are really good that you find early in the progression very valuable especially for trading I think like once trading really like comes in and once people actually like you know understand what items are good and bad and you know we don't just get spam flooded with like you know like trash dude in the trade channels at some point you know if you find like you know a level 60 like item Power 800 you know two handed weapon that has like core skill damage vulnerable damage crit damage then you're gonna sell this for a fortune basically right so I think this is like one really cool thing and it's also another is that it kind of gives you like a nice progression curve for all of your alls as well so you don't like just like Target like pre-farm they know the entire gear set for your second character or something but you have this this same Adventure that you do with your main character by by going through the entire game and finding your own loot as you go on the Africa like this kind of like you know like you always have like this next step basically so I think this is what they're trying to achieve here and I personally actually enjoy it you should never be punished for leveling up yeah okay I can see that it's it's it feels weird and I I agree that you know you can't find the same item of the same website requirement 100 over 60 right but on the other hand I don't know it's kind of like yeah like for what it does like the effect it has on the game is actually good in my opinion so this is why I'd rather see the other way around that you actually do get a slightly larger power the higher level you are so you still have like you fix the floating problem you're talking about but the fact that if I'm playing on a level 100 character and find an item there is like 13 other people on Hardcore basically that might be playing the same class as me and are a level 100 and actually don't have full best in slot yet like that that feels really bad I don't want to be punished for leveling up and and you can never find things for your alts I mean maybe they could make cap it you know maybe they could capture maximum another requirement at 80 or something how would you feel about that I I would say 70 but yeah I think having a yeah having the cap it makes sense because like you know having an item drop and it's like required level 94. like I don't know if it can go up that high like what why is it 100 yes why is this you can't buy a shop item from your higher level characters that's just weird yeah it should be entirely dependent on the item power yeah but I mean I think I think it would be bad if like at least in late game if you're like you know like you like level 70 you just entered uh torment or the level 80 and then you find an item that's like really God roll and then you have to wait like five levels because it has like such a high level requirement if you like rolls it doesn't require The Buffy character so the fact that it's like maximum or basically equal to your character level is fine but yeah maybe that's just like stop it somewhere right so 8 over 80 and then you know that okay at level 80 you've already done like such a big partial progression and now it's just kind of like a sailing to the finish line so I'll just you know pick up all your best install loot from your stash and from trade and there you go right so why not as long as it's a limited amount of levels I don't really mind that like if I've just started doing ancestral torment stuff like let's say I maybe did a little bit earlier I get something that's level 70 and I see this is a huge upgrade for me in like three levels and five levels I don't really mind that that much that like that makes me look forward to that level so much because you know like there's something that's yeah that's coming yeah yeah as well I think it just depends on like how how much you have to wait and how long it has to be it's like a matter of like degree I think in in those things yeah like obviously a few things oh God oh God I didn't have anything interesting to say oh I'm I'm backtracking on topics because sometimes you guys shift and you know yeah for for codexes like they have so many dungeons they could just add like the the like all the legendary powers to the Codex honestly yeah I think one thing they should do is they should play around with the percentages a little bit I think the free ones from the Codex should be worse on the on the scale like I think the scale should be expanded so the bottom end is worse but then they should be more accessible so you can actually play those characters if you want but on the other hand they have this like weird like perfect role thing happen like like I've found three perfect Shadow blight things uh and the roll is 60 to 120 and I've only found like 10 of them there's no chance that it's random like I think it kind of cheapens it for me I want them to actually be random because that's why it was in D2 getting like a perfect unique even if it wasn't that good of a unique felt really good and it kind of made me pick up all of them yeah it's uh I mean it is random I think what you experience is that there's not that many steps that can roll right it's 60 to 120 but it's like 60 70 80 90 or something like that so this is probably how it works now no I have like 106 109 the cap is 120 so oh wait I thought you were complaining that you found like perfect ones all the time like well then I didn't I mean I found three perfect ones out of the ten uh okay there's another one you know razor plate the razor plate has a range of thorns at high level of like four thousand yeah I've found two that are the worst role there's there's no chance I don't think that it I don't think that it's actually a range I think that there are certain benchmarks that it can hit there's like five or six benchmarks yeah exactly that's what I said yeah that's like you know a few steps I've had so many perfect roles there's no chance yes exactly it's always like maybe it has like 20 different intervals on like you know an item or something right so that it can hit and you got lucky and hit like the Maxwell a few times right yeah I still would like it to be like all the way random yeah I guess I guess it's like a very minor thing I don't really have an opinion on that so I guess I I think that would be nice too and I really like what you said I think especially every core skill aspect should be an aspect and yeah they could they could be even lower to just make it playable and it does get exciting to drop a good one and like they're like if there was going to be drop only ones that could be like the ultimate things or some of the defensive ones like something that isn't like build enabling and mandatory a 92 Shadow blight so it's not even a factor of three this one might actually be random I don't know the theory is falling apart guys it's falling apart at the scenes that was this blizzard going like oh you're talking [ __ ] [Laughter] this is made one just for you right now yeah yeah no but one point I have about the Codex Powers is I mean how would you go about changing the Codex now like I mean the clearly cannot make a dungeon for every single codex part for every single Legendary Power and every dungeon has a codex power now so so they just remove certain codex powers and then add other ones in or yeah for one doesn't know what no but some codex bars can be default why not have them drop from the different act boxes or that um like that would be fine I mean yeah okay I mean it could definitely be like more unblockable like more things you can do to unlock codex pass right so maybe it's just like you look like maybe even like a side event right you could do like a local event in this area and the local event there and maybe that also unlocks one so this could also be like a bit themed around you know certain powers I guess yeah the bricks are five times like you can you can even do cute stuff like um like if you do a dungeon you get its codex power and a random other one or something like that yeah right and then in order like you can like you can yeah you can make that work I think yeah strongholds as well there's a lot of things they can put things behind so what do y'all think about the by having the reform Renown in Seasons because like they just made an announcement they said we're not going to have to do like we're not gonna have to like reopen the map but I feel like they haven't been like very defined on it I I'll give my opinion I don't want to ever have to do those side quests again I never want to have to do Omega like it was nice the first time I actually enjoyed it and it was really great the first time but then what about after that you know if they swap the Paragon points and the ovals and with the fact that you you from they said you were getting the Renown from the Lily statues we've done before right I didn't miss hear that yes yeah so we're actually are starting a lot higher than we were before we get the full exploration and we get the littlest statues if you then swap number four and five around so that I at least you get the Paragon points at four then I'm okay with it that's a good point I would be okay with it at that point but I would still prefer to not have to do them damn well the thing is that what is your plan for starting out a season if you don't want to do Renown you just want to go straight to the best Dungeon and just grind it or what I mean yeah pretty much like you know play a new character build that character get the gear for the character like I mean it's like Renown isn't really like there's never going to be a point where like I level a new character and like part of that enjoyment for the season is going to be doing the same side quests and like because you know a lot of you guys how many of you guys read the side quest I read the by three they come in skip button I did I I read my three they come I think that was really good I was very excited for that one but other than that I didn't care at all yeah I mean personally I gotta say I'm a huge fan of renowned system I really like that it actually incentives you to go around the world you know you do the external there get the waypoints that's what I've done of all my characters now so they've done this like three times in a row basically now and I had a good time with us you know I like going around and just grinding my way through the zone at least once I didn't like full Renown on all the characters but you know I did a full moon on my first and then kind of like you know it should be an option at least to do the Renown on the odds and something that is not like useless because they're known on the old school like literally nothing because like 10 000 gold and like half a bar of XP you know or something like that and there's like pre-double 50. where you have 10 bucks I think I think having it give like huge bonuses to experience would be cool yeah yeah exactly I think I think I have a solution okay since since audition is the only one who wants to do it what if everyone who plays during the season just gets progress for free when Udi Joe gets the completion that's great I'll get it on probably the first day right yeah yeah I think that would work yeah you're gonna have it by hour six yeah I don't probably no problem man I mean I'm already I'm already like you know strategizing around the renowned Speed Run basically so you're running the side quests yeah I mean I agree with the zyquest I don't want to do side quests but what if for example they add a season content as potential renowned sources so you you do like strongholds and you like your dungeons like you're gonna unlock your codex Powers anyway and you know it's kind of go around do all the Dungeons and you have like a good head start from the altars and the exploration it's not it won't even be such a grind I think because of this Head Start that you have from from all that and then let's say that they add like the season stuff as we now own as well so you can actually do a season event there and season event here or something I I think there's just so many things they could add a small amount of renown to as well that would make it a lot less mature like for example you are already completing a dungeon gives Renown but what if repeated dungeons gave two or five are noun and then you had like world events to a few like between one and five hell tied stuff give a little bit like there's a lot of things they can give a little bit of renown with that makes this still enjoyable for like you know majority of players are playing these types of games to just grind and I don't know I haven't heard that many people that are I love the side quests I want to do more of that right there's nothing I think that's a really good Insight that like people are really not complaining about Renown they're complaining about having to redo side quests yeah yeah exactly but you know let's say there's like you know two or three more sources and you can completely skip side quests right I also don't want to Side Quests again to be honest you know like I try to stay away from them as much as possible but just a variety of going around doing a dungeon here doing an event there I think that would be cool yeah I'm gonna be a side quest Defender okay all right so I think any individual side quest once you've reached where it is and you have it tracked it's fine I think the problem with sidequests is every time you're doing a side quest you're dealing with a crappy map system the crappy navigation system the horse bumping into crap the fact that you can't have more than 20 of them it's really hard to track even if you have a lot of quests in an area the difference between a tracked Quest and just a quest is it's like a one huge difference in the blue like it it's it's blue versus slightly Bluer you can't I just learned that there's a difference right now you can't properly skip the dialect like yeah I think I think the actual side quests themselves are fine it's just every time you're doing them you're dealing with the worst parts of the game yeah which brings us to a UI I guess I that was the number one thing I was really upset about today is that they didn't even touch on the fact that there's no map overlay I was like talk about it I will be the contrarian this time I actually don't mind the fact that there's no map overlay and I think that in general like whenever I play Poe I always have it up and I do think that contributes to kind of a more uh weird experience playing and just having this map up over the screen the whole time so I actually understand where they're coming from it up then say what just don't have it up well why would you well the thing is like if you have an advantage that's so important that gives you like because obviously the reason why I have it up is because it's useful right and so if it's so useful that everybody is going to have it up all the time which is what I think they would do um I could be wrong but that's that's definitely what I would do is have it up all the time and in doing so you end up not really seeing what's going on in the game like do you see that as being a good thing because I don't really think so but instead I'm spamming M if you like so many streamers you can say m m I completely agree with you I think they should allow you to zoom out them anymore I think that's so worried that the solution would be like we understood that a lot of players who are opening the map repeatedly the map now has an opening animation where a character kneels opens up a map New World oh God that's what I'm wearing will happen so it's very good when you when you bring up the the journal for quests to see like we're going back to this it puts the map overlay over so to look up a quest you can't see your character um now the flip side of this is playing couch co-op on Hardcore is awesome because anytime you don't like the player you're playing with if you're tankier than they are you just bring up that full screen map in a dangerous moment and there's there's like next levels of couch Co-op that have yet to be explored it is what it is so there's multiple forms to PVP I didn't even know about that that's great yeah but I mean I I agree with Osman here like personally I'm a huge like map overlay enjoyer actually like in Pue I I don't look at a screen I look at the map but uh in in Diablo 4 I don't miss the overlay map very much I gotta say like you know you have like this um you know the right click the pin on the map you can use that and I actually started using that and it works it works fine and in dungeons if you know the last layouts I feel like it's really unnecessary like if you run the dungeon a few times you know know the layout you know they're kind of similar and you know that there's a side room here and the side room there and you know you kind of go through them and you know your way around so I don't miss it at all so bad it's the GPS equivalent of sending you to the ocean it's like I click and it's like okay here it stops and it just like goes through the mountain and I'm like bro like I love my overlay map I I don't understand how that like if you all played Lost Ark before no yeah in Lost Ark so like if you click like let's say there's a road with like a a bend in it and if you click on the other side of the road the horse will walk around the bend if you click on the other side run Diablo 4 the horse will just walk into the wall why is that I don't understand it doesn't make anything they're just not as smart in Diablo it's true yeah in one stock we do have unicorns that makes sense I've said it on my stream a few times now but the the amount that I want in this game is like a freight train I want to just Stampede over the mobs I want their scrawny barriers to be like completely obliterated when I walk through them I want NPCs to be trampled and recover like a minute later like this this is the Mount that I want in Diablo for I don't know I think the the donkey yeah I'm riding you know and I I did find it a little bit sad just for my RP point of view I found it a little bit sad that like all the like dismountabilities are like the coolest thing ever the only one that's useful is sorks like the Rogue pops off fires like a volley of one damage arrows the Druid jumps off girls like do you slam for like 17 damage and I'm like bro why can't these just like it's not like I'm gonna spam them they have like a crazy long cooldown and I'm not gonna get back on my Mount to go far monsters I I please like let them like at least one hit like the normal trash monsters they argue with that I mean they don't seem to have scale with anything right at least I could scale if your overall character power like you know anything else does and you know you can you can actually do something of it right yeah especially especially the Rogue man the Rogue is a sad story man yeah it's so cool but I was like whoa when I did that and then I I was like oh I'm gonna go one shot a pack with this it's like one one one one I was like the third one's insane though yeah I'd like to see more of that stuff too yeah maybe they could actually customization like you know actually it's not in like a different ability and it would actually become a bit of like a part of a combat you know like the the open world exploration right if if you're like if you like focus more on open world content eventually with like you know seasonal stuff or whatever they could also like beef up those Mount Dismount abilities or maybe even some other benefits they can get from your mouth yeah not not that maybe like this will be like too much but at least like you know having like you know like a you know you have like no abilities right you don't have to like this this Mount you have to does this Mount attack and the Boost right and there's like three extra slots they can fill with some stuff right where you know maybe a bit like the dragon riding and wow like it could be in like uh more abilities that actually do something and like you know just you know spice it up basically and maybe like another attack you can do or whatever well I mean hopefully I mean what happened and wow is they added extra abilities to Dragon riding like throughout the expansion and they still are so like hopefully they do the same thing I think that'd be great yeah I think it would be definitely a way to go to make them more interesting and you know like more included in the in the overall combats right for me like right now I go on the mound I press speed speeds and then I ride like two screens and there's like a huge pack I despawned I you know do my thing then I you know dash dash evade and then I mount up again into the next pack and it's it's kind of like a nice fast back and forth but the fact that as I said go up on the mountain down on the mount without anything else it's a bit sad yeah yeah I hadn't actually noticed the role play horse walk until day two where people pointed out like the further away from your character you hold the curse or the Foster you run I haven't noticed that so I was like why is everyone faster than me um so yeah apparently you can't even do that on the controller by the way I've heard that type of controller people they cannot run fast without more with the mount oh wow it's been worse you know those controller Andes are taking over at least the world of necromancer ruining our game especially with their advanced search features oh huh yeah um oh I really want to go back to items actually how do you guys feel about vulnerability I feel like on every item all I'm looking for is wrong because it's like in its own bucket and it's crazy strong you can't have multiplicative affixes in the same pool as additive ones everybody is going to go with the multiple kid of one and it's just common sense like I I understand that like you want to have like good and bad affixes but I'm gonna be real I think that most of the abilities like close damage far damage core damage like these are all just like percentage increases I I don't feel like any of the uh the stats that you get except for maybe vulnerability damage are interesting at all yeah it's so much more damage yeah I agree like a vulnerable I mean vulnerable is just like two op in general right you have to glip for it you have like uh you know especially on Bob and Rogue you have like removable and like all the weapons I think if the glyph it's uh the exploited that wasn't like um vulnerable damage but actually like you know additive damage like other glyphs uh then you could theoretically think about not running vulnerable on like something like a sword or a necros or where you don't stack many weapons of vulnerable damage for example but for example on Bob and Rogue it could be like more of like a you know integrated class mechanic so to say right where you have so many sources of it and there could be like a kind of like a thing like fortify and like you know all these other kind of class mechanics barriers that you know some classes kind of lean more into it than others but right now every single build that is good has to have vulnerable and this is like yeah yeah too mandatory and too powerful and then it's down it feels awful right so you always have to search for a way to have problem in your build if you build doesn't have problem it sucks so just basically how it works right so it's like too much of a you know black and white basically and yeah just in general I think the values at the very seem to be massively lowered I think it's fine that they're on the same items or the same you know stat pools basically if the map if the values were much lower of vulnerable damage if this wasn't like 60 vulnerable damage I mean I can you know then if it was like 15 I would say yeah okay that's probably like a kind of like a trade you know it can make right but yeah so it also for rogue makes bow completely useless right like I didn't actually realize how big the difference would be on one so the fact that like bows have I think it's distant damage and then crossbows have all damage it's like yeah I mean both both are just awful like you know like people ask me like 10 000 times every single day like yeah why do I use a crossbow and I just say yeah yeah okay you have like one item that gives you the best stats in the game and then you have another item that does literally nothing when you know almost anyone plays a melon Rogue yeah you know of course you're gonna choose a crossbow and even even the bow builds use a crossbow you know because this sometimes is just terrible so yeah yeah it's just like yeah this morning ball needs to be it needs to be be tuned for sure it makes the unique bows really bad too yeah it was a little bit closer before they nerfed the crap out of the vong glyph though because characters that didn't have much generic damage and actually had a lot of volume damage uh it started to swing a little bit the other way but yeah it feels like valm was something that wasn't considered when they made a lot of changes with itemization and gear over time and more recently we can see that being really evident with uh the glyph change like the glyph changes pretty big I I just don't really like vulnerable and the more impactful vulnerable is I think the more annoying combat is because I mean there's characters with like 300 volume multipliers and you're literally doing like no damage or damage so yeah when it's a conditional effect that you have to apply it's just it combat is always going to be put your curses up then you can do damage next pack put your curses up then you can do damage yeah it's just this tedious form of slowing down combat that uh yeah I just really don't like uh yeah I think it's I think it's okay if like one thing is just way better than others on gear it's pretty hard to avoid that honestly it seems for most games but um not this one this one's just not a good mechanic to to be the the one that is leveraged yeah I I fully agree like if like vulnerable like vulnerable in the early game you don't have like 20 30 you know like you apply it it feels good you know you you notice you do more damage but it's not like you need to have it right but late game you need to have it or else you don't have a build so it's just like yeah like if the numbers were like way lower and maybe you can scale it to something like maximum double damage let's say I think that'll be okay it's like massively lower basically from now yeah yeah I can have like a cap on it or something like that for sure yeah I hope they just they end up creeping them um and also with like crafting like do you do you guys like the current crafting and D4 which is rerolling one Stat or is that really crafting no but it's what we have right I would like to see a little bit more though yeah yeah it's not I don't dislike it it's okay I just like to see more I'm surprised with how good a gold sink it is like yeah so obviously like something I've seen the last like 10 days since loads of people from other games being like oh I wish this was more like this game I wish this was more like that game and I love when games are different but there's one mechanic that I love that I think every game should have and that's path of excel's valorb which uh has been introduced to like Diablo 2 mods as well like pathod Diablo Etc I'm such a huge fan for those that don't know what it is it's basically like high risk crafting it's like a final step where you have a chance to either make the item better or break it entirely um I I love that I really wish there was something like that oh yeah absolutely I mean Corruptions would be amazing to have but maybe this will come over time I think that you know right now we have this rerolling of a start and maybe eventually we actually get something like you know you pick up a white or blue base and you do something of it maybe they're going to introduce Rune Birds you know maybe they're going to introduce Corruptions uh I think there's definitely room for that you know like long term to like start not adding some stuff like yeah I think for now it's kind of fine but I would definitely really like to like you know grind up for like 100 hours and then at the babies for like one or two of my items I can use all those materials I have gathered you know like the 999 raw height or whatever and uh you know actually do something with it and you know craft an item you know exactly how I want it from scratch you know that would be nice you know even if it's like a very rare thing you know at least I can because something I could be talked about with like the working towards a goal right like it doesn't have to be only unique to working towards it can also be like the best in slot weapon or like a nice armor piece or something right and if I can actually use my stuff and kind of optimistically get there that'll be great but it just shouldn't be like the main way of acquiring loot I think they still and the devs also want to keep it that way right they want to you want to find loot but something yeah it's nice when drops are exciting my suggestion was having like a pretty rare drop where you know like the one or the stuff that you're actively crafting is like highlighted blue right and you can change that but having a item that would let you change that that's pretty rare that would be pretty cool so it's like okay you've crafted that part of the item you now unlock the stat and as long as that's like pretty rare then you can at least craft one or two but it doesn't raise that the gold sink then you have an extreme gold sink as well so actually crafting an item to Perfection would be very hard but maybe crafting two stats is pretty doable I think they're they're system that they've set up for the game is very open-ended it's very easy for them to add this onto the game and I'm kind of hoping they will um with the seasonal content I haven't really made up my mind on what I think they'll do with seasonal content because they they could go like big on seasonal content or they could just you know start really small and work on like polishing other parts of the game I I think and I'm hoping that they'll go pretty big in the first one to kind of set the bar of what each season might be later so I'm I'm expecting the chaos to be interesting like just do crazy stuff how do you guys this is going to be like a crazy thing how would you guys feel if they added raids into Diablo like a three-person boss or a five-person boss like World bosses but they're harder I'd love it and I'd love to see World losses being harder I think they're really cool and like uh we did the first one that we did uh which was avarice and we were super under level we weren't ready for it at all it was actually pretty hard um and like yeah uh somebody in our party didn't have a cheat death potion was staying out of the Zone um I almost got one shot instantly because I didn't know how I was felt and I yeah I wish they were a little bit harder thing out of the Zone doesn't seem very hardcore I mean it's no it was full [ __ ] mode but yeah personally I've been skipping World bosses like all the way I just I'm just really interested in doing them because I just like not really a big challenge or it must be worth my time right now I think raids would go too far I think it's important that in Diablo 4 and averages in general like this stuff needs to be so horrible I guess it's fine if you have like maybe group setups that actually take on you know something like an Uber boss or so together and you know there's like some some kind of a reason to do it but it should also be a Solo figure like uber live you know that could also be a raid I guess so to say like as a four four player made I don't think it needs to be more than four players they probably cannot be more than four player so maybe it could actually right so you can have more than likely to find a way to like make a great party basically right um that would be okay but it should still always be there also a solo experience I think that's one of the biggest things right is like for a lot of people like playing an arpg or playing a game like this they don't want to feel like they have to be in the group and I think that's why the question is so divisive I was like kind of curious to hear what you guys have to think about it I don't I don't know what to think like I would like to see them try out a raid in the seasons and I hope that's what they do with like these new seasons is just try out new crazy cool stuff and if it doesn't work out then just don't do it again right that's it it's done I would love to see it yeah I mean why not you know if it's like an option I guess if it's like not required you know for you to do it as a sole player for example it's just like some extra and I'm sure yeah I I mean I'd like to see him go big with seasonal content but um games are always going to struggle to keep that balance between like solo play and Group Play yeah I have grown to be a solo player Andy ssf which is kind of how I've been playing it but to be honest I like the the Quasi multiplayer like I like hell tied I like like following people around I don't want a group of them I don't want to have to deal with them I don't want to talk to them no I don't want any of that but it's nice to see them yes yes and like the world boss stuff the same so I think they're they're may be intentionally or maybe by accident kind of hitting a pretty good spot but still I think they might have to eventually do like an ssf Style game mode but I would still like to have the side by side in a in an ssf mode I think that would make it unique and interesting and yeah especially with like boss content and stuff like that if they do because you know if you're playing ssf and you're and you're doing boss content you're like forced into the the the the raid finder situation I think that is its own chaos yeah yeah I'd love to talk more about that actually I really hope they put in an ssf mode yeah I've actually been discussing those as well lately this is f mode and how it could work it could be literally as simple as just like known ssf tag when you make a character and you just have this tag or like name was a different colored name or something like that that just indicates your ssf and that's it right you don't group you don't trade that's it and you're like make your own stash with that character maybe so uh and then then you can break it at any time but you only still on the same server you see the people running around but you know you can't manipulate anything you can't do like this you know group strategies you can't do like resetting with groups you can farm with groups you just see people here and there and you know it's okay it doesn't really break this immersion of like more like this ssf flow you're seeing someone in a Hell tied right it's just kind of like you know maybe you're going to ditch an event here and there in the right moment sure but it doesn't really give you an advantage in the in the granting of things that other people would not also get sometimes right so this is like the main thing I guess about ssf even even if you can't see anyone in the world I think that would be fine too yeah I mean the thing is that you know I don't think they're gonna make like servers for every single player that places app right it will be probably be crazy so this is like the main reason why they're probably not gonna make something like that it's just the cost I guess of the service sure so you know like having other people running around in the same chart even if they're not ssf tagged it's it's I think that would be totally fine yeah I would like that yeah I mean like just to have it to have it be in the game because I know a lot of people like playing solo cell phone so it's like why not give them the ability to play the game the way they want yeah right I think that that's that's one of the main things to me is like just give people the ability to do what they want to do in the game rather than like trying to like force a certain play style yeah exactly it's fun for competitive stuff too yeah exactly especially for competitions for races you know for leaderboards eventually and like that it will really matter to have this ssf like you know a verification of ssf because you know basically most of the competitions are going to be based around solo play probably because it's just like the most you know skill expressive mode to play I guess and so and also like just most people just don't even have access to like a team that you know they could actually group up with so I think like something like that needs to happen for like the long term like um like high-end especially I guess of players that they want to like maintain Integrity kind of yeah exactly yeah something that very often can happen and why like group play started like dying off a little bit in competitions in path of excel was because especially in Poe where trading is so imperative it would just become a popularity contest between streamers right it's like okay I found a mage but here he goes is it's like that's not very fun whereas in ssf it's entirely Merit based yeah um and surprisingly very little RNG right we very rarely see in path of excel any race be decided by well he just got lucky yeah yeah and I think it would be a similar idea for as well right if you do like a race you know there could be like many race modes right you could also have some mid-season race of like you know one two tournament unlock for example right or something like that and you can just you know have like an ssf character and then you stream it all the way and you know like the fastest wins easy Club so but with with no ssf we can't do that right because we can't verify and that's that's a big problem so yeah right also like it hasn't really picked up yet because I think the top end doesn't have that much of a requirement in terms of like you don't really need to have a 100 perfect character but with no robust trading system in the game can you even imagine the advantages of a streamer it's like you can trade a rare item like viewers just find the perfect rare items you just slap the legendary aspect you want on it you basically get best in slot gear so if somebody does that like if there was a robust trading system in the game but there's literally nothing literally nothing I actually had people come to me and I could literally trade me in town and they're like putting some ideas into the trade window and I was like yeah no no thank you like you know so halt yeah it's like one of the only games that I don't take free [ __ ] in because it's like in an arpg that's the only like that's that's the game you know like if you're gonna take free stuff in in an arpg what's the point you know yeah no absolutely I I have really whole point on you asthma I'm disappointed yeah well I will whenever I make other characters to show different okay that's fine yeah that's I'm doing that for the community right so it's totally different right of course oh man um yeah let's see I want to talk about the UI and like things like just Dash tabs search features like that's been driving me insane like even after my first character I hit 100 I was like man this is going to be a problem now my second character is about to hit 100 I had to call it I'd start calling good items and just like yeah it's it's 2023 I'm playing a new Diablo release and I have five mules yeah oof yeah that's something that's crazy like there's been a lot of tin foil head theories people have been like do you think they're doing this to see if it'll be acceptable to sell stash tabs and I'm like surely they would get a lot of backlash right it's a 70 game like it's kind of excuse me mortal that backlash yeah hundreds of millions of dollars of backlash yeah it's a very different audience I'm not sure if they can really creative is from their shareholders did like their their shareholders they're gonna be just fine with paid stash tabs I tell you that yeah I don't think they can be realistically sell stuffs I think they have to be free so if they make the extra stash then it has to be like you know unlockable or something they did it in D3 for example you play a season with the with the season challenges and then you get a stash tab you can lose five times so I think it's gonna be maybe something like that where it expands I don't really think they're gonna do like the poe way of selling stash stuff so that would probably be too much they would just sell it for gold definitely selling stash tabs for money are you serious I am so afraid of that because I bet a guy in my uh in my stream 500 that they wouldn't do that oh yeah they're doing that I am I am so nervous if I if I had money in blizzard stock I would be upset if they didn't okay that's that's where I'm at yeah you're losing your money asthma like that's just a matter of time and I think you're losing it soon how are you gonna recover from this setback I don't know I have to do I don't have to go on my main Channel or something far more stops yeah I have to take a deal from kick apparently [Laughter] uh but let's go back to the topic of of like uh the stash in general I guess I mean the stash is obviously awful right it's like way too small it has no search I mean these are like obvious issues that everyone saw coming even even stuck at my level 20 character in the beta you know like playing like two or three different classes I already had so much [ __ ] in my stash and uh well now I have another 100 character I have like you know a bunch of like perfect roles of aspects there like saved up in case I need an upgrade and then I have like a bunch of like you know base items that I may or may not want to use for like pushing or for another build or for selling and you still have any space for any of that right I'm playing like one character my entire stash is full and I'm really really selective about what I put in there so I think it's fine that there's a bit of a decision making but especially the aspects the aspects are a huge problem so it's sigils yeah and the consumables and sigils being in the same tab I'm like dude yeah hello yeah that was like that I mean it could be easily fixed I guess right it can just literally make like a social inventory and then you know at least at least have like some extra space there and it doesn't get mixed together right so it kind of kind of like organize it like I like to organize my scissors on the flight so I put like you know the ones I want to run like in the bottom left corner or in the bottom right corner and then yeah kind of like two yeah I kind of like put them like you know in order of like the way I want to run them kind of so uh with this inventory we have the elixirs in there as well and you have like these 50 different elixirs right if I'm hell tired you get like all these elixirs and there's a lot of everything man it's horrible so Elixir tab yeah yeah I mean residual tab aspects tab yeah bottom bottom tab oh my God how much are we buying this for a [ __ ] yeah the problem of nightmare sigils is so bad that when they're gonna charge for a stash tab you're not even gonna feel bad to buy it like I'm telling you it's this is this is like a perfect layup okay we're getting light up right now it's Yep this is like a combo move green problem sell the solution hey it's done so exquisitely you know we really have to appreciate this moment in the hustle well I mean the thing is that I guess the problem just comes out of the game design and I don't think the deck they actively designed the stash in a bad way like I mean if you just had more stack space it would still be a struggle to handle all the stuff I think so more space is not the solution necessarily it'll be like a map tab like in Poe right or it would be you know like a currency tab like in Poe or something like certain fake slots for certain things you know you have like your your elixir of this and elixir of that and next they're here you know like if the Elixir tab so you know if they actually do like a Poe style specialized tabs then yeah I think this is like actually dealing with the problem and they're not necessarily just selling a solution so I think that probably just arose from from the game they made but okay I mean it's just me I have I have another thing to say that yeah I actually brought this up in my original review that was driving me crazy even just playing level 25 when you hover over items quickly you can't see their stats because oh yeah it's like transition thing I'm not even that fast of a reader but I the thing that drives me crazy so when I'm when I'm trying to look at the nightmare sigils I can't even hover through them at a proper speed exactly that feedback slow down yeah you have to go 20 miles an hour on this road that's like double lane and no 20 miles an hour that's it right it's like next item next item oh I think that one was three items ago no it was this one it's yeah if it's too slow for me it's a problem problem I I want to be able to see stats on items that are on the ground and honestly I want some sort of basic item filter like oh yeah where at least because at the moment I don't care at all about sacred items like if I don't care about gold I'm only picking up ancestral and usually only picking up for a few items that I hear about as well uh if I'm trying to go fast like the fact that the game launched without a basic item filter is crazy to me leaving items on the ground or like constantly paying attention to only try to read everything that I'm walking by yeah I think that's like something so much loot like we talked about the density and like these large monster packs and the examples you go in there you blow up like five Elites and then there's like you know 10 you know I just want to ground and I just click on a bunch of things that say ancestral and move on but yeah I mean maybe number one is like there's maybe too much loot number two yeah like the item filter is absolutely needed like especially it's not just the basic filter of like okay leaving out sacred and blue items or something like you know items yeah exactly white items but you know at level 80 90 or so like your gear is kind of like in a good spot right and an upgrade is going to be like a one in one thousand drop or so like why can I not just say Okay I want at least you know two of those four stats on my piece and then maybe maybe highlight it some way and all right like why do I have to look at a thousand items or you know it's a thousand chess pieces to maybe have a chance to get like an upgrade you know like everything is trash besides this one in a 1 000 drops so why can't I just like say Okay I want that right and like highlight it for me it doesn't have to be like filter out everything else you know a green color or whatever right so that uh you know the stuff that I want to see actually is like highlighted maybe in some way I mean that that is something last Epoch does exceptionally well they have like an amazing in-game item filter where you can like just very customizable very easy to use and you build it alongside your character like really good yeah I think that's like definitely needed at least like you know once more and more people start reaching later stages of the game they're gonna run exactly into those problems that we discussed here because well we're Masters and we have seen you know like we've level 200 and stuff like we have seen this problem but those most people have nots and it's gonna become very evident very soon for a lot of people I think that you know once they approach the 100 he's gonna have so much trash and then the fact that you cannot even sell all to the vendor and you have to like sell them one by one or mark them one by one you know there's not even sell all button because you know you don't sell those items you just sell them so yeah it's just it's just so backwards it's Mark as chunk you know it needs to be exactly reverse I think you know like I want to Mark the item I don't want to sell because everything else is trash anyway like you know 999 items are trash it's like I know whether everything is trash why do you need to tell the game that it's trash you know yeah instead of the junk feature I'd want the upset of that like spare this item feature yes exactly this is how it should work in my opinion it's just like talking about this because I had this I had to step off for a second but there's a cap on materials that I hit yeah did you cover that no we didn't yeah okay so like there's a lot of loot that's like Auto pickup and one of them is like leather or something there's a lot of leather drops you just don't really raw yeah we've seen that though they did say that on the podcast yeah it hits 10 000 and you can only you can't drop it you you can only upgrade the leather to the other leather 20 at a time oh yeah and it costs gold too doesn't it no no no and it's not like one click for 20. no no you have to click hover over there one type in the 20. okay and that's the only way you can lower it from ten thousand okay you're gonna have this problem asthma pretty soon trust me oh good yes yes and yeah you have to do this it's a lower or else it clutters your screen because there's some instances where leather drops off like every mob like if you do like the the one like the the trees and and the Animals every single animal drops like some leather so your screen is entirely leather if you don't do this crafting 20 at a time when you have your cap of ten thousand yeah in season two it'll be eleven thousand they're increasing it no I was I was very happy with the podcast today to be honest it also felt a lot more natural and just nice I liked it oh I love doing these These are totally good with me I'm always down to come on and talk about the game especially whenever it seems like the best thing about it is the fact that it seems like they're listening right so I'm at the dev podcast like this this is great too but I meant the the dev one I thought you meant that yeah no I that well that's the same [ __ ] thing I say the same thing exactly yeah I'm gonna watch it whenever I go online yeah I am no it was really good are you gonna react to this podcast again afterwards no I'll probably tell everybody that's on because it'll probably be on your channel right yeah it was just joking yeah see I I don't know do you guys want to talk about the story I know like obviously that's spoilers for some people who are still doing spoilers for me because I actually uh hit escape on every single conversation that's fair we can we can skip talking about the story and just just to be clear I know I had like access on the review beta or whatever I skipped those two I have never seen any cutscene or anything I've never seen it so yeah the full cutscenes it's just I'm doing the campaign at a time where I'm so sick of like NPCs giving me forced Conversation Pieces where I'm just completely done with it like I just want to play the game if if the cutscenes of every other Quest was basically zero I'd definitely watch all the campaign and stuff the the trailers and stuff there are actually brutally excessive for me yeah there are actually like cutscene YouTube videos but so what I was doing was I went through the campaign on my second character and I actually died I was doing a chat and um I mistook my own poison trap I thought it was my own poison trout for like four green explosions I was like oh that's mine I'm good huh and then just ghost I was like a little 20 or something oh and then I was like ah do I really want to go do that again so what I did after that was I watched the last of the cinematics uh on a YouTube video it's really good I was happy about the story I hope they add in more content for this story because I think that keeps people engaged right there's like all the people that are like posting about it on Twitter and stuff because like it's definitely that thing that like everybody who is like more of a casual player that's what they do a lot you know they know all about the story or something like that because that's their that's like their main content yeah I think it would be not so bad like you know it's like very clear that they're like setting up the story for like they know the expansion where you know we're going to meet mcmephisto and all that I guess at some point right and uh well maybe they're gonna even put Diablo into a Diablo game who knows so um yeah I think that maybe they have like some slides you know like kind of content strategy with that where like you know every season or maybe every two seasons yeah give like a little tidbit that kind of like builds up to that expansion that would be great I think to kind of like move it forward slightly and then you have like the big you know content drop on the expansion I wanna I wanna pitch my my story Theory from Diablo 3. again I have not seen anything from Diablo 4 but Diablo 3 before the expansion content ended with the the thing in the forehead the Soul Stone it just kind of drops from the clouds and then that's it right there it is it go no that's a good question right well well who died in Diablo 3. came what if from the clouds it just happens to drop through the clouds on the ground and exactly where Kane is buried in his forehead okay resurrect it resurrects Deckard Kane as Diablo himself exactly exactly great story you know I mean well you got a lot of loose ends right and I I want Kane back in my game so I don't see a problem with it how they do it yeah but I mean yes and nothing sort of time travel it can really bring deck arcade back I guess at this point I mean because they have nephromancers I mean the thing is that the whole story is like said like what is like half a century after D3 or something I mean that's a long time and it was already kind of an old fail man maybe we could be a ghost like something cool yeah maybe maybe yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah no I think that they could do that I mean like uh they kind of brought back I didn't really bring back but I felt like the did you guys ever play Diablo Immortals like storyline and I'm like okay bye yeah do you guys think that uh the Diablo 4 is gonna be paid to win in the future by my definition by my definition definitely like I consider path of Excel for its Dash tabs pay to win so absolutely okay no I don't think so and I mean they have also at many occasions you know said very strictly there's no pay to win and they will never beat pay to win I mean we have to like you know we have the post you know they they said that I don't think they can really like backpack from that in any way like if they ever do that this is gonna burn it would be really they got 10 character slots dude they got 10 character slots okay like yeah I mean I I do I'll try to say it would be fun to see but on the other hand obviously I don't want them to ruin the game so uh pay to win that cannot exist in this game like this but that's gonna be a big semantic difference right because then they're gonna be like well we're not selling power we're selling quality of life we're selling stash tabs we're selling character slots we're selling a map overlay like you know yeah I think it'll be a semantic difference I mean okay I mean you can always like argue it's just like a video Pay to Win it's like it's like more stair space it's like winning more like can you can you actually translate more stash space into you know getting a rank one in the competition yeah to some degree but not really I guess depends on the competition I guess so you know it's like yeah there are definitely some kind of gray areas with that I guess if they sell stash tabs or if they sell uh character slots but yeah it's not like it's not like the The Immortal style pay the winway actually gain power so that's like the most important part but I agree it would be nice if they don't sell anything and it's like unlockable in the game yeah I I'm not sure if the guy in chat is correct but somebody's saying they never said they won't be pay to win they said it won't be paid for power so oh I don't even know the exact wording uh you know who does though blizzard legal they know the exact words but Kodak oh that's good yeah I mean we'll see I guess but realistically I like if they ever do anything like that I don't think it will really go beyond something like characters that like character slots and stash tabs so I think they cannot do anything outside of that and like in terms of like selling stuff to people already that would be you know that will already produce like outrage I think yeah oh people will be furious I don't think it will as much um I think if they deliver a good quality game they can ding people constantly and I still have the faith that they can do that over a long period of time but I think five years from now there's gonna be such Advanced stash tabs in this game where like your your nightmare glyphs automatically go there and you can index it when you're in the world and click it and teleport to a nightmare dungeon and the guy who hasn't bought those stash tabs is using one of his four free ones for like a quarter of his glyphs among his mules okay like that's where we're gonna be at is is I'm sure of it anyway the poor people that only spent seventy dollars on the game well no no that's before the expansions no no oh right yeah it's only 120 dollars it's very frustrating I'm very frustrated with where the Monday station and games is going with things like early starts and stuff too right I think even within like five years we're gonna see like bronze Q Silver Q Platinum kill it's like as a platinum Q user if you're not able to log into the server we will kick a bronze cue user off the server so you're able to play I would be outraged and instantly buy that feature at the same time yeah I can't believe this this is awful how much is it oh I hit it that's not even a question to ask like oh people in Lost Ark and the thing is Lost Ark you can literally buy gold and then buy upgrades with the gold and then the upgrades make your character do more damage and people still find ways to be like oh it's not really pay to win I mean because you can you can die in a boss fight so I mean there are people that have paid money and they didn't win and and that exact time is why I'm moving away from the statement pay to win I'm like trying to be the end of course so I'm going towards if anything Alters your game experience then it's not cosmetic and even Cosmetics can be paid to win right I think even in League of Legends there's some skins that are banned from competitive player because they give some form of Advantage now this will do it in Poe too by the way you know someone feels like Kira ball pass things like you can see a floss being active and your your vowel skill challenging I mean it's not actually mildly competitive advantages those aren't that interesting but there's one where I can't remember what it is there's something about fast charges come towards you for Monsters so you can see when you've killed things off screen no uh things like that like that can very easily be paid to win but still like at least for me is there anything else I need to take notes anything else that's paid there's one thing that's pay to lose and that's the uh the righteous Fire uh shaper cosmetic because whenever I played that obscured different ground effects and I [ __ ] died because of that that [ __ ] micro transaction so yeah don't get that one yeah but it looks fancy though just like a good character is it started for me just a friend of mine was like this you need to try Black Desert online I was like okay cool is there any pay to win in it he was like no there's no pay to win in black dresser and I was like oh sick let's try it so I download Black Desert and literally the minute I launched the game he's like okay now open up the store and buy a pet and I'm like the [ __ ] loots thing for you it makes it easier and faster and he was like well you don't really need it and I was like okay so I shouldn't buy it he's like no no you need to I'm like [ __ ] yeah uh so I don't trust people anymore no trusty shoes so now I started being very like like I'm very semantically aware now I'm like does it alter your game experience if I spend a thousand dollars and you spend zero do we have the same experience um and it's like pretty much just Fortnight lift right that that's like true in by the pet I did I played that game a lot and then I uh I realized that I couldn't play it 16 hours a day and I quit the game because it wasn't worth playing only 10 hours a day well it was a good game but it's like yeah like that pay to win stuff like it's just I feel like anything that you have that that's like that there's like no sense of like satisfaction in it like I feel the same way about like store uh cosmetics and Diablo 4. like a lot of people are like really critical about how much they are I'll be honest I don't care because I'm never gonna buy them right it doesn't matter it's just a cosmetic piece of [ __ ] that doesn't make a difference yeah I have to go overboard on on this okay I think they should make Cosmetics some of them way more expensive like why not make like some ten thousand dollar boots like who gives a [ __ ] okay a few people are gonna buy it because they're ten thousand dollar boots and I'm totally fine with that well and you can and they'll they'll feel good about that too that's the thing is it's not like they'll feel like a loser or anything I actually need more of those cosmetics in my opinion I I actually have a similar text to like winning game has cost many monetization that's this sort of monetization that I do want to promote because I want everybody to have an equal playing field gameplay wise right that's the most important thing to me and I still think the devs deserve to Mondays they should make a lot of money and cosmetic monetization even if it sometimes can be paid to win it's still the most mild form of anything right some visual increases so yeah for for Cosmetics they should charge whatever makes the company the most amount of money is that three dollars and have it literally everybody buy it that's great it's that one being three thousand dollars that's great right because uh as long as the company is financially motivated to do updates I get more content um where it's like I'm I'm it's so important to me that everybody's on the same equal side gameplay wise yeah I I totally agree with that so uh for example I did play Immortal and I did a completely free to play uh I played for like a month and then I quit and uh like my goal was to become immortal and what what do you mean what I said a month a month yeah maybe a bit less I don't know exactly it was like a few weeks yeah anyway so uh yeah and basically we hit a model and I did Legend in PvP and then I quit so because I was done and I had kind of like peaked so to say and I didn't want to continue anymore it was just like way too crazy with you know everything that was going on like I hated to pay to win and I will hate it if it ever comes to Diablo 4 I will hit it even more I guess because of how good of a game I think it is and how how much better it can become and how much worse it can become with pay to win so yeah it's it's definitely important to stay away from that uh for for the good of the game and the crazy the annoying thing about pay to win is that it incentivizes the whoever is making and selling the game and profiting from the game too um create problems and then sell the solutions that's right yeah I mean you know there's always like this argument you can make you know do they create a problem on purpose you know do they do they actually create the problem of you know your nightmare sigils you know just being like randomly thrown in a stash versus selling a nightmare Sizzle tab you know I don't think that for example Poe did that on purpose as well right it had literally the same problem you had maps and then people realized well this stash system sucks for maps right and then they made a map tab right and then they started thinking about uh what else could we do uh currency that seems kind of nice you know everything goes in the right place and it just kind of like builds was built over time and I guess a similar thing might happen here so if they sell these tabs or if they just give them for free or make them unlockable I mean yeah eventually we're gonna have specialized stats I'm pretty sure there's there's got to be some Middle Ground here like Woody's right like if if Poe doesn't sell stash tabs there's no way they would be as good as they are like that feature is better because it's a paid feature yeah that is also true I guess definitely it's also like at least for me like I I personally call Path of excel pay to win but I would give it like a two out of 10 pay to win right because the big difference is if if you ask me is this if I spend a thousand dollars and uh and you spend zero do you have a big difference like well not really past like 40 to 60 dollars right which is pretty fair and that's how I treat like all games I play like that's a one-time payment on a phone yeah exactly like it's the game trying to get anywhere from like 20 to 80 maybe even a hundred dollars right out of me then I'm like okay that's that's fine it's a game trying to juice me for like 300 to 2 000 I don't love that I don't love that at all yeah if it's like capped at like you know a very reasonably small amount right like a two digit amount let's say you know like a typical game price you know like this is like you cannot you cannot really be angry about this right like puree is such a massive game and it's totally fine you know it's like literally like to answer the game price and it was like the argument that so you always have to to also give to people that say that perfect style is like I'll pay to win blah blah but you know me basically it's not right like you know the reality of pay to win does not exist in power of Exile outside of r t so it's like a different story yeah of course the bad thing about pay to win is whenever somebody who spends a hundred dollars is weaker than somebody that spends a thousand dollars and they got a thousand dollars is weaker than the guy that spends ten thousand dollars that is never pay to win it's really bad I don't really mind like especially in a free-to-play game having to do like a one-time purchase or like a battle pass type thing that you buy once per season because like you're effectively buying like anything that functions effectively the same as like a sub fee like in World of Warcraft I don't mind yeah yeah that does definitely yeah I would see it too like I wouldn't mind you know like I played Diablo 10 hours a day you know I I can pay 10 bucks a month if I have to right so yeah right and I think like all people that kind of like you know like the game enough to play it enough you know it's just like just like such a small like you know piece or to say and I mean while he's been doing it successfully for like almost two decades right and this is how it is and wow was a better game for it because of the money that was that earned for me wow absolutely how much do you think the expansions are going to be probably 60 bucks and there's going to be a deluxe package and there's going to be an Omega deluxe package and then there's going to be the Early Access deluxe package I think they'll bear The Exodus on that too okay so here's the thing if I I think Early Access is cheesy and it's stupid and it's unfair and I don't like it but if I ever made a video game I would do it aren't you making a video game well yeah I think like around 50 60 is probably a reasonable like to expect for expansion and didn't look stuff of course it's gonna happen it totally access happens again who knows I mean it has kind of worked out for for this launch with only access and I figured that you know when it comes to like you know racing and stuff you know anyone who would care about that will just get it and that's it you know I don't really see this as I've done some major competitive problem or something like that so yeah whatever it's mainly just annoying yeah I hate it I feel like Diablo 4's upfront cost was uncomfortably High and they made an insane amount of money so 667 million dollars for Diablo 4 will cost more than sixty dollars I don't know how much it's gonna cost but it's gonna cost more than that it's gonna be like oh my God that's a lot that's how much it's going to cost probably it can be like seventy dollars for an expansion to the game so the game is 70 and then I mean you see it can't but like their their bottom lines probably not you know the shareholders are happy right now so I would expect there would be 30 40. yeah I mean what year is this two years from now a year from now two years from now it was 10 years ago maybe it would be 30 or 40. I'd be very surprised to see over 50 yeah for uh for dragonflight in WoW uh I think that they sold like versions of dragonflight uh somebody can correct me and chat if I'm wrong for like 90 dollars and that is an expansion that has a a a monthly sub fee I need some copium yeah yeah he's used it all up for this well oh yeah I fully expect to see like the expansion uh expansions cost a good amount of money but uh you know probably as long as the game doesn't have like the unlimited types of pay to win like Diablo Immortal had like I'm amazed that you got a mortal man like I thought that like there was no way a free-to-play player could hit him well I I mean I didn't didn't do it alone of course you know and also had people that were also kind of like carrying through there pay to win and all that stuff so it wasn't just me being Immortal suddenly as like a my own achievement right but uh yeah it kind of like worked out basically and we managed to win it and then you know I was like I was like really focused on PVP I actually really enjoyed Immortal Pap I gotta say and uh especially like this uphill grind of being free to play versus on the high ratings he had like a lot of whales and a lot of like really that kind of you know every game though that's pay to win yeah it was it was it was really really tough especially towards the end like close to the legend rank it was it was really rough but uh yeah I kind of like you know just grinding my way through it was it was a fun experience but then once I was done with that I I uninstalled mainly that was it so goodbye because it was just like way too crazy you didn't notice it so much in like week one week two of immortal like you know I was like blasting grinding you know and it was more about the time investment advantage that I had from just playing so much so it wasn't so so obvious that I was so weak compared to other people but then you know basically like after like one two weeks it really felt the difference where people just like we're wailing past straight past you basically and uh yeah then yeah well it was pretty pretty weird experience to be honest but the other hand is understanding of immortal is that it's completely unacceptable to leverage time investment I don't think that's how that game works yeah that had a hell of caps and all that stuff if you may not or what do you mean exactly like uh uh time investment was uh yeah always capped always suppressed always yeah exactly exactly it's like you're literally you're you're you're getting cooked like you're you've got one of those chastity belts on and you can only take it off for like an hour a day and then the entire rest of the day it's how it is every game has like these Energy Systems it's crazy it drives it drives me nuts yeah I mean it doesn't have the energy system and you can still grind stuff right but yeah it's like massively disincentivized I hate time gating and daily it's like the only game I've ever enjoyed a daily in is tarkov ustrating um what do you think are gonna be the first new classes we're gonna see 100 pounder yeah I guess yeah I've I think the pound is like really the number one choice it's like the holy class that's missing basically right uh personally I would like to this is missing too there's no tank class yeah true they they don't have like barbarians of the shields they should make they should give like barbarians shields in an expansion or something and some Shield skills I mean they'll be cool too but um yeah yeah Paladin like with Shield I think that's very very likely or something like Paladin right I don't like to see a witch doctor though I think like after Paladin a witch doctor would be amazing in D4 Amazon yeah but you have like the problem with like the you know like what is a male Amazon uh so I don't think you're gonna see something that it won't be an old class but I don't know how far reaching that really is like you can slap on a name and you know get a different theme on it yeah yeah you've got to have like a whole like some sort of like holy damage class I mean we have a necromancer like yeah I mean the end there's like a massive like the whole story is based around effectively paladins and like sacred energy users it could be a fallen Paladin [Music] a lot of the religious stuff was like killed right like they're pretty gone yeah I think one thing I think would be really cool if it was like some kind of like more holy caster and not like a holy night so like something like a cleric you know one of these cultists or you know something like that that um there could be a visitor yeah increase I don't exactly something like that because I think that in the album 4 right now with like the distribution of classes basically every class has like Melee specs at least to some degree you know we have our class even on Thor can we have like the several stuff on necro you know Rogue is like half melee and mostly melee Bob is entirely melee Drew there's like a lot of melee so having like a paladin added to the mix is just yet another melee class basically but maybe very little like range capabilities and I think we definitely need more like range and more casters and even though pounding would be cool and all and it's like some some old fan favorite I don't want to just like you know M hammers all day long I wanted to have like a real Caster that'll be cool with like an awesome yeah some like real like holy fantasy someone hasn't played D2 he he's thinking of maybe spamming some hammers saying what this is all about oh yeah I've never played it okay well you can give the Hammers a try you cannot go wrong with hammers in in diabolo too I hated hammers yeah the only one yeah I hate it too like it's not it's not that I don't want Paladin before because I hate hammers but I think that it's just like a such such a big variety of melee play Styles already in the game that we don't need yet another full magnetic class but yeah who knows yeah that'll be interesting um all right I mean we're we've got a little over two hours I figured we'll do the last topic like talk about people's favorite things in Diablo 4 that they like the most wrap up with something positive uh Aspen do you want to go first uh my favorite thing is I like being able to go in and just use Whirlwind and kill all the mobs at the same time it's the same thing I liked about Diablo 3 and I'm still able to do it and I think that's really cool I like the gameplay the gameplay is genuinely fun Spin to Win Spin to Win that's all I ever want to do that's good uh I actually kind of want to say the same thing uh just more broadly uh I think their their class identity is very good like uh a sork feels like like you're doing some things like far too powerful like sork is like all about crowd control and if you don't think so try to do damage without it you ain't going to right so like sork is like a master of like really really BS abilities but they're really short or you can extend really long crowd control on your enemies so it's like a very very sorcery type of thing like some really powerful spells even though yeah the damage is lacking but I think that's fine I think I think a class that excels in crowd control and immunities probably shouldn't do quite the same damage of a class that doesn't have those things and I think necro has a really good identity I think uh people got so tired of complaining about minions they forgot to even try them I think I think necro really does Excel as a Summoner and as like a death dealer death knight type of play style um I mean Barb Barb's like shout so I guess that but yeah I mean I think I think in general the the the the the class identity is very good like it's uh it's actually exceptional uh maybe maybe some of the best for for an arpg nice Woody yeah I totally agree with um the points that Osmond and [ __ ] are making already about the the gameplay and the class identity maybe to add to that I like the the build crafting so a lot of people complaining like the skill tree is so small and the paragraphs look so basic but basically leading up to the four launch all I was doing was the other four Planet streams literally for months like I was sitting here every night like five hours plus crafting builds and I enjoyed it so much and I have like a category a catalog of like 100 builds or something that I want to play at some point and I like the variety I like the choices you can make I like that there's actually a lot of like it's actually fairly balanced in in many cases at least you know the balance not perfect but they are very often these choices where you know I can start on this skill and that skill instead of those and that one and suddenly have kind of like a similar play style but you know it's completely different at the same time because you use like two different utility skills or you know you can swap around you know there's offense for the defensive part and I'm having a really good time just experimenting like for example now when I was actually playing my rogue I was like you know I was doing like a rock with like a completely different key passive a different ultimate a different utility skill but the same call skill like the same core skill can feel so different to play because of those other choices and that's really one thing I enjoy a lot like I can really replay I couldn't just play a rogue for like years at this point and always make a new build and this is what I what I like so much right now it's not just you know Bob spin twin basically you can also do Bob spin the win with you know maybe some other stuff in there or you can do like you know you know five different versions of like you know a double swing Bob with showers or with stomp or with little you know leap and charge or whatever right you can you can have like all these like utility choices and yeah they may not always end up exactly being as powerful but they are generally balanced enough and I really like that and that's kind of like keeps the gameplay and like the moment to moment gameplay very exciting because whenever I get tired of one thing something and put something else in and play with that and it works that's great I I agree with a lot of that and I think what I've been the most impressed with so far about Diablo 4 uh and I've been sort of going into it obviously I'm a path of excel player and I'll be going into it with the mentality that well it isn't path of excel it's a completely different game and I think it's better for casual players than it is for no lifers um but what I've been impressed with so far is how well it does with with doing a lot with little like the the Paragon system and the skill tree is a lot more simple than path of Exiles but there's actually still a surprising amount of choice there and the same with the item Chase it's a very very simple and primitive in a way but it's actually still a very fun item Chase like I my my before video so before the other four came out and playing garages level 25 I was [ __ ] hard on the item system going like this is going to be dog [ __ ] and awful and I've been very surprised with how good the item Chase has been because on every character I've been looking forward to finding new items so that's been my favorite thing yeah I mean overall like you know I've been very critical of the game but I've actually really had fun playing it I mean like I that that's at the end of the day what matters right am I playing the game the answer that is absolutely yes yeah so I just want to see more content uh more stuff added into the game more ways to play the game yeah just give us more stuff that's it yeah I agree is there any other topics anyone wanted to talk about our cover before we wrap up I'm pretty much chilling like I I've talked about I would say pretty much everything I I'd want to talk about at least okay yeah I think me and discussed a lot of good topics now and I mean if you want to repeat something you know like a more specialized podcast or something I mean yeah you know something that could be like around yep so it can always be like you know like the the hardcore topic or like the item topic or whatever right you can like have some ideas and but generally I had a good good time here so it was great a simple one Paragon refunds apparently I think the Paragon system is is more more interesting than you're giving credit for is this I have I have to disagree with you a little bit I and I think that one of the big things that is like gig of fail is a lot of the glyphs just not working um like physical damage reduction multiplier for example there's a glyph that Buffs cold notes there's a single one on the entire Paragon board not even two you can't even buff two it's cold resist there's one for lightning same thing the one for fire gives you like extra fire damage along the fire resist note that one actually hits two notes they could easily just add more as well though of the boards right balance the current glyphs one of the glyphs bonus gives you resistant 13 resistance for each uh for each enchantment on its damage type so you're getting 26 resistance as its bonus all right that's just that's like less than 0.1 survivability like it's well they'll fix that in season two [Laughter] Maybe well it's just I I was expecting it to be very very primitive I was expecting it to mostly be focused on stats and some other things so I've I've been enjoying it compared to what I was expecting it to be yeah do you think that uh is enjoying it a lot because expectations were low or is it like objectively nice system like from your perspective I think just with games in the current year just having low expectations is just always better I've never had known anyone that has high expectations for a game and they were happy Elden ring sure uh so I think I think having low expectations pretty healthy for gaming at the moment I unfortunately agree yeah yeah I'm just I'm just glad to see the games uh you know like a good game come out that's like actually fun to play and you know it's not like massively predatory or it's yeah you know not this awful thing oh the Golem game was really good oh my God like that's that's one of the best things about waking up late in the day is I can just wake up and read Twitter it's like is this worth playing [ __ ] yeah yeah oh yeah no it's good all right we can uh we can end it there I love ending with links shout outs so Zach rawr where can people find more of your content uh on Twitch and they can also watch me on YouTube and uh just search uh asmon reacts and uh you'll find probably everybody on this uh on this panel yeah [ __ ] well I'm NL underscore [ __ ] on Twitch but I'm the only [ __ ] so it's not that hard to find and uh preparing on Twitter and YouTube the same we also have a second Channel we have casual [ __ ] which is not exactly casual it's just the eclipse Channel I'm I'm trying to be the uh the next uh as gold of reactantes nice yeah yeah well um yeah we can find my name Rudy Joe on YouTube twitch Twitter everywhere and then we have Max role where I am writing guides and I'm like the team lead for the Apple 4 for all the guides that we write there uh so if you are interested in any kind of like Diablo 4 content and need guidance then go check it out and I'm scissoring also sometimes called cesarian and this is cesarin so I have many names apparently but yeah it says and uh yeah just scissoring on everything twitch YouTube and I I've now started reacting back to as Bengal which has been great so good ideas you can do like a whole circle maybe or something like we actually did that once we did actually do that once I reacted to him he reacted to me I reacted to him reacting to me and I mean like all of us you know like you know like I I react to this reacts to that and then awesome goes on that Unstoppable exactly that's the future guys that is the future all right well ended there I hope you all enjoy the podcast it was a pleasure having you and thank you for taking time to be on here yeah absolutely thanks for having me I'm glad to come home whenever and uh talk about the game that's great thank you nice am I the only one who's been playing the game during the podcast no you're not the only one oh I wasn't playing I just had to kill my shot music running

Channel: wudijo

Views: 324,834

Keywords: diablo, blizzard, wudijo, diablo 4, diablo 4 wudijo, diablo 4 barbarian, diablo 4 rogue, diablo 4 sorcerer, diablo 4 druid, diablo 4 necromancer, diablo 4 guide, diablo 4 guides, diablo 4 builds, wudijo diablo 4, diablo 4 build, diablo 4 endgame, diablo 4 best build, diablo 4 build guide, diablo 4 blizzard, diablo 4 hardcore, diablo 4 leveling, maxroll, diablo 4 tier list, diablo 4 podcast, diablo 4 progression, zizaran, asmongold, kripparrian, diablo 4 launch, diablo 4 recap

Id: vSJmuxpE3yE

Length: 165min 8sec (9908 seconds)

Published: Sat Jun 17 2023