The Detroit News has a very significant report just crossing tonight that I want to share with you, just coming out saying that then President Trump is actually recorded on tape and he is recorded on tape pressuring two Republican members of the Wayne County canvassers, most populous county in Michigan not to certify the 2020 presidential election. Now, this is a phone call. According to a phone call on November 17th, 2020, Trump is on the phone call right to Trump's on the phone call with with just people certifying an election in a state. And he's telling the two Republicans that they look, quote, terrible if they sign the certification, adding, quote, We've got to fight for our country. We can't let these people take our country away from us. Later saying you take care of lawyers for them. According to this report, which is just breaking, the chairwoman of the Republican National Committee, Ronna McDaniel, was also on the call and then told the two canvassers, quote, If you can go home tonight, do not sign it. We will get you attorneys. And that's when Trump replied, quote, We'll take care of that. Craig Mager, who broke this story, is for the Detroit Noise News, joins me on the phone. Craig, I just had a chance here to read this as it as you as this is crossing your breaking news. I just want to emphasize here, this is at at best time the president of the United States on tape recorded for 4 minutes of a longer exchange talking, pressuring these individuals. You've heard much of this tape. Can you tell us what you hear Trump say? What I heard listening to the audio of this conversation was the then president of the United States encouraged pressuring, contending, arguing in favor of these two Republican county canvassers, not signing the certification of the 2020 election for Wayne County, Wayne County, the Democratic stronghold in Michigan. And it's the state's largest county as well. So is there anything else you know, that that could have happened in the other minutes of the call? Or how are you aware of exactly how long the call was or or anything else that that you may not have heard that could change the context here or add context? You know, we heard 4 minutes of what could be an up to 11 minute call, according to Verizon phone records that were previously obtained by the January six committee. We don't know what was said during the entirety of the call. We do know that the Wayne County canvassers have previously the two Republican, Wayne County canvassers have previously said that the call was simply just Donald Trump, thanking them for their service on the canvassers. And nothing they have, they have said previously that they didn't remember anything specifically being stated about the 2020 election. They didn't remember that the recordings that I have reviewed show that the call was heavily about the 2020 election and very much about the certification vote that had just taken place. Right. And telling them not to certify. I mean, it is pretty stunning and again, that the United States is on the call. How did the canvassers respond to Trump? I know you're saying that they say retrospectively that they didn't remember 2020 being a big part of the call. Clearly, in the 4 minutes you heard, it was it was what the call was about. How did they respond to him? They didn't say a lot
on the call on the recordings that I was able to review. They did not say a lot. I think what they did say was try to argue in favor of what they had just done. If you go back to November 2020, what happened during this very contentious canvassers meeting where the Wayne County results were certified is the two Republican canvassers initially voted against certifying there was a minimum pressure put on them. There were lots of arguments made from members of the public and public comment encouraging them to certify, and eventually a deal was brokered. The Republicans agreed to certify the election vote to certify it if they could also demand an audit be done on the election. So with that deal, they voted to certify the election. However, after casting that pivotal vote, they left the meeting without signing the statement of votes, you know, confirming what the vote tallies were in Wayne County after they left the meeting. That is where in the phone call with the then-President and Ronna McDaniel, the chair of the Republican National Committee, took place. I want to ask you one other thing, Craig, before you go, and that is just listening to it. And what was the what was Trump's tone like when he's talking to them and pressuring them in this moment? How would you interpret sort of the tone in his voice, his emotion? And it I would say it was an appeal to these these canvassers. It was a direct appeal to them. He made a lot of comments that were similar to other comments that he had made. Unproven claims of fraud in the election, arguing that there was something extremely improper that happened in Detroit, Michigan's largest city. He was kind of making a lot of the same arguments he had unleashed on social media. But in this situation, he was making them directly to these canvassers, basically, and directly asking them how could you sign this, knowing what I'm telling you, how could you sign it? And the comment that you mentioned earlier really struck me where he, the president of the United States, told these two county canvassers that they would look terrible if they sign this, according to their recording. Yeah, I mean, it isn't it is important just to think about it right there. Getting a call to canvassers in Wayne County, Michigan, from the president of the United States and just the power disparity, the way they would have felt getting such a call, the pressure. And that in and of itself. Craig, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing all this reporting and I hope everyone will go see Craig's full reporting in The Detroit News. Professor Laurence Tribe is back with me now. So, Professor, what do you take away from all of this to, you know, GOP Wayne County canvassers? They get a call, Ronna McDaniel from the GOP, RNC puts them into the present United States. And now Craig's had an opportunity to hear this call and a very clear, direct appeal from the president to to county level employees, telling them not to certify the election. Well,
assuming it's all accurate and I just heard this for the first time, so I'm not going to make a, you know, a final judgment about anything. But assuming it is what it appears to be, it makes you think of all the pressure and and defamation directed at Shay and Ruby Moss. It makes you think of the reference burger call where he's trying to twist arms and say that you're going to get in trouble unless you find me the votes I need. This is all part and parcel. It appears, of an extended plot going back way before January 6th and extending right up until the violent insurrection, an attempt to interfere with the central process of democracy, the process of making a peaceful transition to the newly elected president. And I can imagine whether special counsel Jack Smith already has this evidence or is in the process of developing it. The trial we're going to see that is supposed to begin on March 4th is going to be dynamite. No wonder the president wants absolute immunity. No wonder he wants to delay the trial. No wonder he wants to prevent the American people from learning the details of how he tried to steal an election that he had lost in the name of what he calls the big steal. Marshall has done extensive reporting on these canvassers. Ryan Goodman is on the phone as well. But, Marshall, these canvassers, you have reported extensively on this and you knew that there was a recording. We're now finding out what was on it. And you hear the president of the United States on it. You hear at least Craig Mauger was saying he heard 4 minutes, which included the president of the United States speaking. Can you put this in context for us? Yeah, we knew that there was a phone call. This is the first time we're actually hearing what was exactly uttered on the call. Thanks to this great reporting from the Detroit News. Put yourself in these people's shoes. They are local county canvassers, local folks in Detroit getting a phone call from the president of the United States, the highest office in the land. This is unprecedented. And it was at a moment in time when Donald Trump was trying to do everything in his power to stop the certification of the results in Michigan. He lost by over 100,000 votes in that state, but he was trying to find any lever of power that he could find to stop it. He had invited the top state officials to Washington, met with him in the Oval Office, the head of the state House and state Senate, both Republicans, to try to twist their arms. They ended up putting out a statement saying there was not massive fraud. And then he went lower on the totem pole and went to these local officials and got them on the phone, convinced them and look at these, quote, convince them to rescind. He said, we'll take care of that. Ronna McDaniel from the RNC do not sign it. We'll find you. Attorneys don't do it. They ended up trying to take back their votes. It was too late. They voted to certify the results. But it just shows how Trump tried to find anybody anywhere who could gum up the works and overturn a lawful election.
