- I'm going to react to a fascinating moment
I saw between Mike Tyson, Bill Burr and Jeremy
Piven on Tyson's podcast. You'll see Tyson pushing
Burr to be more open and self-disclose some personal things. The point of this breakdown is to learn about how conversations like
these can sometimes develop. What I'd like you to do is to
put yourself in their shoes, ask yourself if at the
end of this conversation, is there anything Tyson
could do differently that would've helped Burr
open up more naturally. I'll use the psychological
model called the Johari Window to help make sense of the conversation. The clip starts about 10
minutes into the podcast. They just finished talking about religion. And now they're starting to talk about how they've
been working on themselves over the past couple of years. We'll watch the whole two and
a half minute clip together, and then I'll make some
observations afterward and make one small suggestion for Tyson that may have helped Burr open up. And you can compare what I say to any advice you might give
Tyson after watching this. - But there's something about
it that really struck me at the very end with the credits and you're there with your kid. And it's that silhouette
of you guys in the back. - Oh yeah, Royal Open Hall, yeah. - How you feel about that? - It looked like someone, I don't wanna say who has it all, but you've figured some stuff out. - No, I did, I did. I did. No, I definitely figured stuff out that's why I'm trying to
figure out how to come back to a higher power thing, trying to figure out my
temper and all of that. I mean, there's something wrong with you if you have a kid and
it doesn't change you, it doesn't make you look
at yourself and be like, "Well, I got a lot to work on." Because there was a lot of stuff
I didn't like about myself. And then when I had a kid, I was like, "Oh my God."
- Oh, you see it in your kid? - I feel like, yeah, I'm contagious. - And you think, "No, no, no." - It's like, "I don't
wanna pass this (beep) on. - You don't think you're contagious. You thought you could hide something. - No.
- No, we like secrets. - I have a temperament,
you can't hide that. - No, no, no, we're
not hiding your temper, we're hiding the cause of the temper. - I'm trying to figure out,
what's the cause of it? - Oh, you know the cause of it brother. Don't start that, "Why am I mad?" I know you know why you're mad. Why are you mad? Who hurt you? - Oh yeah, but that's
what I just figured out. But for years when I
would yell at my phone, I thought I hated technology. - Oh, this guy is clever. - It had nothing to do with your phone. - No, I'm serious, I'm
being totally honest. - No, you're not, you silly goose. - No, you know what it is? No, the thing is you're more evolved. You've worked on yourself more. So you think I'm where you're at, I'm not. So I'm learning from you right now. I'm not trying to be clever. I'm being totally honest. You know how many times I've said? I (beep) hate technology? Technology kept me alive,
I had a ruptured appendix. I don't hate technology. I just get frustrated
with it and I have this- - No, this is what you hate. You hate this phone. - This is an aggressive therapy session. You hate this phone. You hate technology, you
hate this phone, this phone. - It's too light out. It's the afternoon to go into my demons. (laughing together) Smoking a cigar. I thought I was smoking
my last cigar here. - Let's Segmund Freud him,
man, let's Segmund Freud him. - I don't know if we should
drag him to deep water. - I see that this is
the good cop over here. Piven over here like,
"Yeah, I saw your special. "I really enjoyed it." And you're like, "You
know why you're angry." I just wanna (beep) sit
here and smoke a cigar Mike. - Remember, the question for you is, what if any suggestion
could you give to Tyson that would have made it
easier for Burr to open up? I'll give my tip at the end, but first let me break it down. I noticed some really interesting moments. The clip starts with Bill Burr and he's speaking in this
first box of the Johari Window. Like Burr, in relationships, we spend most of the
time in our comfort zone. The first window is sometimes
called the open self. Burr is talking about parts
of him that are known to him and known to others. He says, "There's a lot "of stuff I didn't like about myself." He uses the past tense, "I
didn't like these things." He says, "I'm contagious, I
don't wanna pass this on." And that shows he's really
well aware that he's an angry and irritated person. I think comedians have
a higher self-awareness than the average person
about this kind of thing. And I'm guessing that most
people know that about Burr, so that puts his comments
here in the open box. Then comes the big turning point. Tyson wants to go to a deeper level and is trying to draw information
about Burr from inside of the facade area, into the open self. The facade window is where
Burr knows things about himself that are not necessarily known to others. Tyson says. - You don't think you're contagious. You thought you could hide something. No, no, no, we're not hiding your temper, we're hiding the cause of the temper. - It's a really insightful comment. Burr doesn't disclose anything new. He says, "I'm trying to figure out, what is the cause of it?" Self-disclosure is a
term we use to describe when we voluntarily reveal
information about ourselves. But Burr isn't volunteering, Tyson is pushing him to disclose. My favorite moment is
where Tyson then says. - Oh, you know the cause of it brother. Oh, don't start that, "Why am I mad?" I know you know why you're mad. Why are you mad? Who hurt you? - There's this huge pause. Question for you, what happened in your gut
when you heard Tyson ask that? For me, it was visceral. I could feel the whole mood change. And if you were Burr, what would you do? Would you talk about it? In that pause, I imagine that Burr is doing some calculations
about the potential costs of saying more. There are costs and
rewards to self-disclosure. One obvious risk on a public
podcast is what happens when you name names? I don't think I would name names. What would you do? Burr is always really quick on his feet and he does some clever redirection. It goes by so fast, but before he redirects, he says, "Yeah, but that's what
I just figured out." A moment before this, he said in the present tense. - I'm trying to figure out,
what is the cause of it? - Then after Tyson pushes him, he says. - Oh yeah, but that's
what I just figured out. - That means Tyson may be right, behind that wall, Burr
may know the root cause of his temper. He could've talked about
it if he were ready to. If Burr really had not
figured anything out about where his pain came from yet, we'd say that that information is still in another box, the unknown box in the Johari Window. That's the box where he doesn't know, nobody knows what's in there. Either way, it was a powerful question. And when I first watched this, I asked myself that same question. I'm like, "Wait, is Tyson right? "If he asked me that, do
I know this about myself?" Burr deflects with humor. He says, "But for years when
I would yell at my phone, "I thought I hated technology." And he bounces the conversation back into the open self window,
in his comfort zone. I use humor sometimes to deflect. Do you ever do that yourself? And then comes my second favorite moment, Tyson knows Burr is deflecting and he sort of lets him off the hook. - No, you're not, you silly goose. - No, you know what it is. - And now we've all lived long enough to hear Mike Tyson call
Bill Burr a silly goose. That was a gift for all of us. All three of them then joke
about what Burr really hates is his phone. Burr calls it an
aggressive therapy session using the good cop, bad cop approach. Big picture, what would
your advice be for Tyson? Keep your own advice in mind. Here's my suggestion for Tyson or for you to help other
people open up in real life. Tyson is trying to push
Burr to self-disclose, but instead of pushing,
one of the best ways to create an opening for self-disclosure is to first share something
personal about yourself. If Tyson had talked about his past and the source of his pain, it would have made it much more likely that Bill Burr would have
reciprocated voluntarily and opened up more about himself. That's usually the way it works, self-disclosure and then reciprocity. When people talk about their problems, it makes it much more comfortable to talk about our problems. It's a fair exchange. Either way, it was still an incredibly interesting moment to watch. Question for you now. What advice would you give
Tyson as an interviewer in this situation? And another question. By the end of this clip, if you were any of the guys in the room in this conversation, just
the way it played out, do you think that would
make you feel closer to them in some way or not? And what else did I miss
that I should've mentioned? I'll put a link to the
original podcast below. Let me know who else I should react to? Until next time, God bless,
and I will see you soon.
