Christian Sexuality Interview with Francis Chan

[Music] you know when i first started believing in god like it just felt different than when other people would talk about god because they would throw that word out there like you know oh you know what do you think about god what do you think and i go man if there's a being up in heaven right now who spoke the world into existence and made me if there's literally a person right now a being who determines whether or not i live for the next 30 seconds think about that someone else is in control he determines whether i continue breathing then the thought of the authority that he holds over my thoughts my feelings might to me it was just logic like if there's a being like that who cares what i feel who cares what i think i i need to be right in his eyes and so the authority of god's word and his commands i've just for some reason my logic tells me i should take that person's words very seriously and if there really is a creator then why do i value my own opinion so much i know that authorities almost like a bad word in today's society because everyone wants to be in control and just kind of you do you but my logic leads me to believe if he is there i want to be right in his eyes i was definitely different from the average teenager in a lot of ways but i think the biggest thing was because my parents were dead you know my mom died giving birth to me and my dad remarried but then my stepmother died in a car accident when i was eight and my dad got married again then he died of cancer when i was 12. so by the time i'm entering into my teen years i've had three parents die and it's a it's a i don't care i'm not going to try to act all tough or whatever when i saw their dead bodies and and we buried them it freaked me out the finality of it you just realized i'm not guaranteed tomorrow and so as a teenager i'm just thinking i need to know the truth okay i saw my parents die i watched as their bodies went in the ground i had nightmares about it like what happens what happens when i go into the ground like like man it just ended they were here yesterday and now it's over like i would look at life that way and i would look at my school and everyone's into their different thing and i go gosh don't you see that it could end tomorrow and don't you want some answers and so i was on this search like i need to know what happens if i die today and i want to be sure of that and then i can move on and and go and play and do whatever else but these were real things in my life and so when i began to pursue this idea is there something more than just what i see here it definitely put me on a different journey there was a different urgency in me you know i'm 52 now i didn't think i'd live to 52 my parents certainly didn't live even close to this it's just a different mindset of life can end tomorrow or today and if i find the truth then i need to follow that truth wherever it leads me no matter how painful it is or what aroused because i'm not guaranteed tomorrow so i i've spoken about how my dad died when i was 12 but i i don't often talk about how there was a part of me that was glad i hate to say it but because we didn't have a good relationship we didn't have i don't know even what i would call a relationship it was just more of a he was just an enforcer one to punish me i feel pretty severely for like little things that i would do wrong and so when he died there was a part of me that was relieved well i'm not under that anymore and so when i started believing in god and reading about how he was a good father it's hard to just you hear that word father and i want to believe god's word but there's just a lot of baggage there and so all the passages about fearing him i had no problem with that i can fear i know how to fear a father but then when there's verses about his love and pursuit of him of us uh his forgiveness of us his unconditional love for us his desire for us growing up and just feeling like he never real my dad didn't really want me around was kind you know because i'm the one that in a sense killed his wife you know his his wife died while she was giving birth to me if if i didn't happen he'd still have his wife and so they just felt like there's this underlying tension of i wish you were never there now i'm reading about a loving father who desires me and you know and sings over me and i'm just like it's just so it's it's weird okay so there's this truth that there are passages of scripture that almost feel negative like commands thou shall not and it's like oh i don't like that but i'm going to submit to it but then there are these truths about his promises and his goodness then i naturally go i have a hard time believing that so so surrendering to god is okay i'm going to believe these truths about you that i don't like but i'm also going to believe these truths about you that seem too good to be true both of them in the flesh i wore again it's hard to have faith in some of his promises and i noticed years ago it's like i'm okay at trembling at his commands you know but i don't tremble at his promises like i didn't have the same reverence for his promises and the things about him that seemed almost too good to be true i was like god give me faith to believe in that that you adore me right now that you're thinking about me right now that you love me you're singing over me you desire me why in the world would you want francis chan after all the garbage that i've done all the ways that i've offended you all the ways i fail you every week how could you want me right now because i'm an earthly dad that they'll come over here with i never had that and so i'm reading these promises and it's just hard to believe but again trusting him means oh god give me faith to believe in your forgiveness your desire for me oh god just like i need your spirit to believe and follow these commands i don't want to follow god i need your help to believe these promises that i just find so unbelievable one of the things jesus said to the crowds was if anyone wants to follow me he must deny himself pick up his cross and follow me those are very unpopular words today when everyone wants to just do what they want to do we all want to do what we want to do jesus says no if you want to follow me i mean the idea of following someone like we we don't we don't get this concept of following like you are the king and so i choose to come under your command you say go left i'm like but i really want to go right it doesn't matter you're my king jesus asked the question i think it's luke 6 46 where he says why do you call me lord lord when you don't do what i command he said doesn't make sense that you would call someone your master your lord and then you don't do what they command you to do it it's like you know if a master tells his servant hey go go wash my car he's like no master like that that makes no sense you know then don't call a master that's what jesus was saying and people don't understand when you call jesus your lord your king that means he calls you to do things that you're not going to want to do that that's why he says you're going to have to deny yourself so as i started studying this book there were commands you know as a high school student you know want to mess around with girls or whatever and you know you read the scriptures like ah that's that's that's reserved for marriage uh you know just just whatever the natural desire is there were certain things where you go ah i have to say no to that just even reading from the very beginning that the sin of eve gone oh i want to eat of the fruit but god said no i'm gonna do it anyways you know it was just this this separation and so i i think we where there's this very fundamental uh again it's my logic obvious truth if i'm gonna call someone master that means there are times when i will do what he tells me to do when i don't feel like it and i don't know how that's been lost but it has been lost and so there are things in scripture that i certainly wouldn't have come up with that francis chan doesn't like but you know what that's part of the choice i made in saying i believe in you jesus i'll follow you jesus after everything you've done for me i trust you and trust means i trust you when your logic doesn't square with mine i trust that actually what isaiah 55 says is that your thoughts are so far beyond mine and it's you know humility is not something we see nowadays everyone just trusts so much in what they feel and what they believe and following god means you know i actually trust that your logic is better than mine and so when we disagree i'm going to assume that i'm wrong and we just don't hear that type of thinking nowadays one of the hardest things to do as a christian is uh it's it's not just denying yourself your own desires but it's when you love someone you really love a person and you see that the way they're living contradicts what god says and what i wrestle with i still wrestle with it is i love being loved i love when someone loves me back right and being accepted and and so there are times when i want someone's approval i want their friendship and yet for me to love them means i have to tell them what this book says because i want them to be right with god they're going to stand before god one day and and there are times that god tells me you know an open rebuke you know the bible says is better than a hidden love and to truly love someone is to to tell them look you're gonna stand before this god and here's what he says there's times when god god tells the people look i didn't come to bring peace he says i came to bring a sword and i'm gonna divide you know father from mother from kid to you know wife like jesus says you're gonna have to make a choice there are times when my love you you know my love for you and your love relationship with me is gonna interfere with this love you have for other people and at that those times you're going to have to take a stand and are you going to be ashamed of my words because you want this relationship with this person so badly or are you going to follow me jesus says unless you hate your father mother wife kids you can't be my disciple his point is your love relationship with me has to be number one there can maybe be a close number too like your love for them has to look like hatred and so there are times when i've had to say things to people based upon the word of god and it's so painful because i love these people so much and i know they're going to hate me i know they're going to reject me i mean but that's that's that was jesus's life like he was willing to preach truth even if it meant rejection his crucifixion that that's that's the life of every prophet basically in the old testament is like i'm going to preach truth even though i know you're going to kill me but this is the most loving thing i can say to you and my commitment to god is first and so there have been times when i've had to address friends on divorcing their wives and going ugh dude you can't go through with this you don't have biblical grounds and i look at passages like matthew 18 or first corinthians i believe it's five where he says you know if anyone calls himself a brother but continues in these sins without repentance don't even associate with them it's like oh god this is one of my best friends but he's leaving his wife for this other girl and you know i i've looked friends in the eye and go look if you can't keep calling yourself a christian and move in this direction and if you do like biblically i can't even associate with you and i love you man you know i love you you know how many years we've been friends and i do anything for you but my commitment to god and i've had friends like like this close to my face going you're telling me i'm like yes like that's how seriously i take god's words and this commitment to him and it's tough those have been some of the toughest times in my christian walk in following him the first verse in the bible genesis 1 1 in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth and i remember hearing it in the context of a some sort of kid's gathering or youth gathering and you know everyone just kind of nods their head and i don't know for me i'm just like that's a big deal and every year of my life it's become a bigger and bigger deal the thought that in the beginning so there was a time when francis chan didn't exist yeah you know it was only you know 50 something years ago if it's true that there's a being who spoke and this whole world that we're sitting on right now came into existence it's like that's a giant gap between that being and me and my little breath even right now i'm sick you know you can probably hear it in my my my my voice and and it's like gosh my fragile little tiny human you know one breath left in these lungs compared to a creator who whenever that beginning was there wasn't even an earth he just speaks it into existence that gap means everything like who am i compared to that see we a lot of us we sit around and look in the mirror and go who am i and you know we try to figure it out we compare ourselves to other people and you just start with genesis 1 1 and ask yourself the question who am i that that verse in the beginning god created oh god what if you never thought to create this earth you never thought to create me that was just a thought in your mind of this much bigger picture and plan and and that's that's that's the starting point in us before we look in the mirror and go who am i look at genesis 1 1 and ask yourself okay what is your identity what's so crazy about that whole genesis creation passage is when he talks about creating man it's different from all you know from creating the the earth itself and the water and even the animals it says now we're going to make man in our image and this is different from the animals the plants the earth itself because man is going to be created in the image of god so when we talk about identity it's like okay i'm not just this worthless piece of dust also there's something so special to me that i was made in the image of god and even there's this weirdness of you know let us you know make man in our image and it's like what's he talking about and and from our further reading of scripture there's this unity with the father son and holy spirit that we don't understand and it's like this it's like in his very being he's he's like three but he's one and there's this this connection it's like he was made he he or we were made in his image and just like god is this singular yet plural like this confusing relationship he invites us into that relationship and that unity and it's like wait what is wait a second there's this there's this i'm made to have relationship with you like in in my very essence somehow i was made to be one with god that and i know i'm not explaining it well because it's like it's it's kind of beyond our understanding in some ways it's like he makes it so that there are things that we don't quite understand about him the bible says we see in part we see in like a mirror dimly but he does reveal some things to us and i believe that passage is very important that i was created in his image so that i was made to have fellowship with him that's that's why like the psalmist in psalm 8 he says when i look at your heavens the work of your fingers the moon and the stars which you have set in place what is man that you are mindful of him and the son of man that you care for him he's like i look at the stars i look at the way everything works and any of us that have studied our our milky way or the solar system we're like what the heck is and goes on forever where the tiniest little speck and and then you look at a microscope and you're like what in the world what is going on in my mouth with every saliva gland you're like this is intense the god who created all of this says he made me in his image and i was made to have fellowship with him like to be one with him and then you start reading the new testament and going wait that creator sacrificed suffered because he wanted to forgive me and have this union so badly why do i care about anything else why do i okay so yes i love people and i love my relationship with them but you're telling me i could be one and i was made in his image and there's something in the core of my essence that was created specifically different from all other creation because he wanted oneness with me and these are the words jesus says look i'm knocking at the door if anyone opens that door i'll come into him and i'll dine with him as my father and i will be one with him my very spirit will enter into him it's this oneness that we were made for that is possible that makes all the things of the world that the material possessions and health and everything else just feels so trivial compared to that i think the most popular lie today is is really the same lie from the beginning it's just you can do what you want to do you're a good person it's that whole idea of independence it's it's it's what it just it's almost like the same lie that just gets packaged differently you know eve saw something that was attractive and satan lies to her and says come on did god really say that's wrong and you see it you like it just say god's just trying to keep you to suppress you and keep you from doing what you want to do just take of it just take of it come on eve you know he's just he's afraid that if when you take of this then suddenly you're going to become like him you get to decide what's good and evil come on you're you're just like him it's it's this it's the self-righteousness of i don't need to come under someone else's commands i have a goodness in me that i can just do whatever i feel like doing because whatever i do is good i mean the vast majority of the world believes that now i'm a good person because we've been taught that and and we compare ourselves to other people and and that we all have this right to really be our own judge it's it's quite different from what paul says where he says look my conscience is clear but that does not make me innocent it is the lord who judges me so paul saying i don't care if you judge me or any human court judges me i don't i can't even judge myself right he says i my conscience can be clear but that doesn't make me innocent it is the lord who judges me and we just live in a time when uh and again it's packaged differently in the book of judges it says everyone did what was right in his own eyes that's no different today everyone just goes well here's what i think here's what i think here's what i think here's what i feel and we feel pretty good about ourselves and we go well i'm not like hitler you know everyone says that same thing or i'm not like this guy or i'm not like well i'm not like those people in the church and those conservative republicans or i'm not like these you know it's just like we we kind of make our own uh system of right and wrong and for some reason everyone feels right doing that rather than looking at the scriptures saying god i i don't trust myself i've been wrong before i've done what i thought was morally right and it would it really hurt some people some things i used to think were right i now think are wrong so how what kind of judge am i i think it's just this whole idea of i can judge myself or let the go with what's popular and right now it's very popular to just as long as you're not hurting anyone you're okay one of the biggest struggles today and i believe it's the enemy setting it up this way we hear so many voices on a given day you just look at your phone and it's just message all of these voices i mean we have access to so and the majority will say the same thing they'll push you the same way and jesus made this clear he says look there's a wide wide road that's easy and leads to destruction and many will go down this wide easy road and then there's this narrow difficult road that leads to life and few will find it that's why there would be times when there were thousands of people following jesus he would speak and those thousands would just walk away from him and he's left with a a dozen people there and going you guys want to leave too and for for peter's saying no you've got the words of life uh where would we go well i'm not leaving you you've got the keys to so you got this little group that walked away from the thousands and that's a difficult thing today it's no different now you've got millions of voices all screaming the same thing hey whatever you feel like doing you do you don't let anyone tell you this oh you're gonna trust a book that's thousands of years old you know it's it's just it's laughable by these millions of voices the wide easy road is just to go with man is what everyone's saying now who thinks like that anymore who still takes the authority of god's word you know like man people don't understand like it's always been like this we have to learn to be quiet and drown out these other voices and i feel so bad for this younger generation because at least i can remember what it was like when there were no cell phones and you know you just weren't always constantly connected to all these people and you didn't have these shallow you know instagram relationships and followers and thumbs up and you know and it was just you could be quiet and your mind wasn't racing and there wasn't just pressure it just wasn't as great as it is today so in some ways it's the same as it's always been but in other ways it's different young people have such a pressure and that wide road and easy road just seems it feels a bit wider and easier and the narrow road just seems a little steeper and more difficult and fewer fewer people who are truly hearing the voice of god and even want to hear the voice of god because what paul warns timothy is he goes in the last days you know what people are going to do they're going to look for people and teachers to tell them what they want to hear and they're gonna find those teachers that tell them what they want because they're things that i naturally want and i can it's easy to find a teacher to tell you what you want and you gotta ask yourself am i just am i just trying to find someone to tell me what i want what i want to hear or do i really want truth even if that truth leads me away from my own desires even that lead leads me to saying i can't sleep with my girlfriend anymore i can't sleep with my boyfriend anymore i want god that badly that i'll leave all earthly relationships and that's the hardest thing it's these greatest desires probably our greatest desire you know i was once told when i was in high school like your two strongest emotions will be i don't know if it was emotions or whatever feelings sex and anger you know it's just this desire you know that you it's just like this urge like you just want to explode and just say something or just crack someone in the face it's just this it's this explosive side with you or that sexual urge it's like these are so strong they're just these fires and to put that under submission and go okay i'll love my enemies i'll do good to those who hate me i'll bless those who curse me or i'll suppress this urge that i have for this person right now because god you are my lord those are the times when you find out is he really master so i've been married for 26 years i've got seven kids grandkid another grandkid on the way and the thing i i love my wife i i adore her she's amazing but uh i i see marriage in its rightful place i think sometimes even in the church they they make everything about oh if you can have a good wife and you know family and it's like that's not really the way the bible talks about marriage i mean yes it's a beautiful thing created by god but it's very small in scripture in comparison to your relationship with god i i mean it's jesus if you write down everything jesus says about family i think you'd be shocked it's it's just like you've got to you've got to be willing to hate your wife and kids compared to this relationship with god i mean marriage was only supposed to be a a picture of something so much greater which is my union with god you know great i have this union with my wife you know i enjoy sex like everyone else but seriously it's like compared to a union with the creator who spoke the world into existence my oneness with him i mean as great as lisa and the kids are they are such a far second i really mean that compared to god it's it's and i don't think people get that i rarely see people get that they they treat like marriages everything and it's like no that my marriage to god is truly everything the thought that are you kidding in heaven there's this being who the bible says dwells in unapproachable light that the high angels are like like covering themselves up with their wings screaming out his holiness because he's so far beyond us he's the creator and he says you can be one with me and when i think about that and and he says that he will love me and cherish me as a member of his body like you would love your own arm and i'm going god thinks of me like that oh my gosh this is insane he loves me that much i'm one with him like that needs to be just head and shoulders so far beyond my union with my wife which is great which i would put it up against any marriage and my love for my kids their love for me i'd put that up against anyone's family i mean we love each other but god is on another level and my union with him is on another level and even our union as husband and wife we see in light of our union with him and we're together to do his work and we don't make decisions based on oh what will make our family happiest we go god what you you gave us this family what do you want us to do or where do you want us to go what do you want us to do what decisions you want us to make as a family because it's about you being lord of our lives something i'd like to say to all the the youth consider humility just consider it for a second just consider the thought that maybe there's someone who knows so much more than you and that your feelings and your thoughts might be off when i surrendered just my own pride of just thinking i knew best it feels like this loss like i'm letting go of who i am or whatever and it's like no jesus says if you lose your life that's when you'll find it but you try to save it and that's when you'll lose it he says you you surrender to me and you're gonna find real life but if you try to hold on you're gonna lose it it's somewhat counterintuitive but that's that's what it means to trust someone and god says he opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble you're never going to experience the grace of god if you hold on to this belief that you're the center of the universe and you're good and you can figure it all out god says he'll oppose you and i have found and again i i get it this is one person's opinion and like the bible says it's this narrow road and fuel i know the vast majority of people on this earth will reject what i say i get it i get it but i'm sad anyways when i humbled myself and every time i humble myself and follow god instead of my own mind and my own desires i've experienced the grace of god i've experienced blessing even last year at my 25 year anniversary my wife goes do you know anyone more blessed than we are like can you think of anyone happier than us on the earth she goes i know there has to be someone like that but i can't i mean it's great hearing that from you she just goes i just think we're the happiest people in the world and i'm sitting there going i think so too and and and then and that was last year i go this year was on another level like if we were happy last year i'm just saying like that surrender that that seems like you're letting go of something because you just think you know best that's going to kill you and it's when you humble yourself that you experience this grace that i'm telling you is just unbelievable and i just beg you humble yourself before god because that's when you experience his grace there's a story in the bible when jesus asks peter hey who do people say that i am and he's like oh some say this some say that i guess okay who do you say that i am and that's such a such an important question because the world right now everyone say oh jesus a good teacher i like this you know yeah jesus a good prophet but it comes down to who do you say that he is and that that may that may be in my mind i think it is the most important question on the earth what would i say who is jesus to me he's the creator he's my judge because scripture says so it says that all things were created by him and for him jesus is also the judge he says that at the end he says the father doesn't judge anyone he's given all judgment to the son like oh he's my creator i was made by him for him he's going to judge me at the end of the earth at the end of my life and he's my savior the bible says that he made him who knew no sin become sin on my behalf that i might become the righteousness of god through him the bible says that i was at enmity with god because of my offenses and everything but what christ did on that cross was he took the wrath of god for me so he's my savior there's no short answer to this it's it's like without him i would have to face god one day having done some pretty bad things in my life and having to answer for that and jesus took that for me no one's ever loved me like that i'd be scared of death i'd be confused about life i'd feel hopeless as a dad i'm blown away by my kids that are grown i just walked my second daughter up the aisle a little over a month ago crying the entire way up there and oh man and i love the guy that she married my two son-in-laws are like two of my closest friends to the godliest man that i know i'm not exaggerating two of the godliest men that i know i'm going god what what in the world that father-daughter dance you know that they do at the wedding i'm just sobbing as i'm holding my daughter because i'm just thinking about all the great memories like i just can't imagine a better relationship there may be one on the earth like there may be a father daughter really better but it's just like oh and so to give her away it was like the one of the best days and one of the worst days like i i don't know how to describe it but one thing i can say is uh i'm not worried about her as i give her away to this man because she walks with jesus like her walk with the lord is on another level than mine was at that age it's just not even comparable it really isn't the things that come out of her mouth the wisdom the the depth the love the connection i'm just like what in the world i wasn't anything close to that my son-in-law is the wisdom that i hear coming out of their mouths this is what you want for the next generation right you're just like they're starting here they're starting here and i think too many parents are just content with oh i hope my kids hold on to the faith and you know hold on to some of my faith that was never my desire i'm going god please i've got this connection with you that i love but that's not enough for them they need to you know like like that as saying goes i need to jump off of my shoulders and take it to another level first of all it's absolutely the grace of god do not think for a second that i'm trying to tell parents hey do it the way i did it because you know that'll work the moment you go down that road uh that's just arrogance okay grace of god grace of god grace of god thank you lord that my kids are walking with you that they love you that i'm just seeing even my younger ones just like the spirit of god i still got a five-year-old at home and when he prays i'm like whoa what in the world okay so i know i'm an anomaly with you know married kids and a five-year-old at home but i just go god your grace on all their lives that's why they're walking with you there's a time even in my oldest one she just like lord what's going on please please please change your heart and he did and she fell in love with jesus so i know it's not me it's this miracle but if there's one thing that uh lisa and i did right or maybe by the grace of god had right thinking upon was we try to teach them the right thing but we we we really believe that old adage that ninety something percent of what your kids learn will be caught and not taught that it doesn't matter what we say they'll remember us in our example and if we're not the real thing we can't hide it with good teaching let's just try to follow the holy spirit wherever he leads us and let's show them a life of faith and they'll see that god rewards those who earnestly seek him by just looking at our lives and so i am grateful for that and so even with teaching and showing them videos and everything else and right teaching nothing nothing replaces you as a parent in your walk with the lord because think about it we figured out our parents at some point and we're like he said this but i knew his life or you go yeah my parents didn't say much but i saw their lives and i saw the power i saw what happened when they prayed i saw the answers to prayer i saw the steps of faith that they took and i saw the way god came through that's what we wanted to reveal to our kids was not hey look at us look at us look at us but watch god watch god when we take these steps of faith i wanted them to see god so they didn't grow up going oh we had good parents it's like now my parents followed god and we saw god come through for them and god rewarded them in ways that didn't make sense and my parents had a peace and they didn't stress out about things and they just always knew god was going to come through and he always did and i want to live that way and there were times i remember one time pulling my kids aside i go look there he goes again there's god and i'm telling you you could just marry whoever but i would tell you you'll miss out on some of this stuff if you don't marry someone that seriously wants to live by faith and maybe that's part of why they married guys that live by faith is they saw it in mom and dad and said okay i want i want that same thing so i'm not saying don't teach the word of god obviously teach it in the home but you got to watch your life closely and you're not as good of a liar as maybe you think you are those who live with you will see the real you so don't live as a liar know your god deeply love him with all your heart that you maybe will demonstrate the power and the fruit and the blessing that comes with following him you

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Length: 50min 27sec (3027 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 13 2021