Carl & Laura Lentz talk Hillsong, Rehab, & their family’s healing journey..

so glad you're here wherever you're listening to this hope you're well if you're watching this glad you're here this is episode two and what we did on this episode what you can expect uh is to hear our story and we felt like it was important to be able to walk people through our journey uh up to here how did we get here how did we get to a place where we're alive and we're happy and we're talking and we're healing and um it's a story of of God's grace so we hope that it's a a blessing to you in here we talk about why we left New York City where we went what kind of job I got um why I ended up in rehab what I learned there and what our hopes for the future are so um that's the hope is that this episode will uh continue to shine a light on what can happen if you don't give up that's our story I'm you're going to get hit with stuff in life where you can either lay down or you can get up and break through and our our lives are evidence of what happens if you choose the Breakthrough route so hope it's a blessing enjoy see you soon [Music] we got to La trying to recover somewhat and there was a lot of media Presence at that time still and it was very it was a confusing time and we had a conversation where you basically said I'm G to go I'm going to get help and you went to onsite which we've referenced before do you want to talk a little bit about what that was like for you yeah that's where the Skittles happened and me being the broken vase you are the broken V vase V tell us a little tell tell me a little bit about it so onsite is a place it's incredible it's been around for a really long time and we had some close friends that firstly put you uh um you went there first and did an intensive yeah when everything first went down when we were still in New York and then I went when we got to La I was like okay now everyone's settled yeah I'm going to go yeah and so I was able to go to onsite which is an incredible um place for therapy and they do group settings they do family therapy they do they have a rehab as well for addiction they have all these different programs that they did but I chose to do the Intensive which is a 4day one-on one intensive with one person and I will say babe that it was also really hard for you to accept that and then you did because your pattern is to put yourself last yeah even in this and I don't know who who grabbed you it wasn't me and spoke into you but you just woke up one day and you're were like I'm going to get help from myself because your pattern for a long time had been I think it was actually Dino Rizzo could have been Dino he was like you need to go but I felt like I couldn't go until we had a little bit of a little bit of somewhat Norm normaly normal in the middle of Co um but yeah so I I didn't want to do it and again yeah I I didn't want to leave the kids I didn't want to leave you like it was really hard because this was the first time I had to really trust you to be by your to for me to be by myself cuz I didn't have a phone I didn't have anything I was like completely like Off the Grid and you were at home with the kids and it was just a scary time like you said to me I'm going yeah so you're going to do what you're going to do right um I I got to go I me yeah I had to go um so basically I did an intensive it was 4 days which they say is about it's worth about 5 years of therapy so it's a lot and it's very intense it is exactly what it is but um I went there with literally I think what I learned is I had no voice I I lost everything and so when I got to onsite you you know the pro the process is you kind of fill out a form it's a little questionnaire that they give you online you send it in and then you get you get to onsite and it's like your phones are taken everything's gone and then I met met my therapist um and we go to this room it's just our room and from as soon as I got there I knew I didn't really but I knew that it was on like from the moment I stepped into the room he was like he was so sweet I I can't even remember his name doesn't matter but uh we got in there and from the moment we got in there he was like okay is this going to be our room for the next 4 days where would you like to sit or what would you like to sit on and I was he said there was a there's a couch there's a seat you can sit on a cushion on the floor you can just sit crisscross on the floor wherever you want and I was like I don't care whatever and he was like no you need to pick just choose a a seat and I was like I honestly don't care where do you want me to sit like I don't care and from that moment I knew that this was going to be a long journey cuz then for the next 30 minutes he asked me a bunch of questions where do you want to sit and I had to pick where I wanted to sit where do you want to sit in the room where do you want me to sit in the room and he he was asking me and I'm like I don't freaking care like just sit anywhere like just sit but I was learning that I I didn't know how to make decisions I didn't know how to say what I wanted I didn't know how to uh say what I really felt and so for 4 days I had to get in touch with myself and it was probably the hardest it was so hard I I'm sure people can relate maybe they can't but um it was really exhausting and but I learned so much I got to the bottom of feeling my how like how my body felt with trauma how my body felt with just um connecting to the world and like to anyone around me so we did all these you know you do all these different exercises and it's just a it's a lot of work and it's literally from like 99 to 6 full day um you get a break for lunch and dinner and then you're just you go to bed but it was a lot it helped me so much though I came home with such Clarity and we went through every question it was the first time I'd felt like I had help for myself like someone saw me someone knew me and someone was like pushing me to to be a better person and to really use my voice and so I came back and I used my I did use my voice with you and uh you did you did it was it's hard to hear and beautiful to hear I also I loved one of the things that started to change was you having an opinion that you didn't apologize for and your laughter that came a little bit later but I know it started that that valve began to release and because you're extremely funny and that had left a lot in our marriage because there was no there was no fun to be had you were trying to survive trying to make sense of it and that was gone from our household and when that started to return I think even our kids like you're you make your kids laugh just by your in your accent which makes no sense it's Australian well I'm constantly taste but yeah it just it's it was cool to to see you and to hear you realize and and it's not fun to be the guy when the spouse comes back from onsite because you're so matter of fact yeah you have had a hand in me not having a voice anymore well it got to the it was to the point like I can talk about this when I did one of the ex sizes and it was three hula hoops and they represented me you and our life and he wanted me to make them connect like how would you put this like how do these work with your your life and I stood there for 20 minutes I could not like moving these stupid hula hoops around I couldn't figure out how to make it work and I kept asking him like does this look right like do I do it like this and he's like I like he was it drove me insane but it was that point where I realized I had nothing outside of you and outside of our kids and our church and so I had to really find myself and so I came back really focused on realizing that I was codependent that I'd become codependent in our relationship and everything I did was for everyone else and so I had to really like I didn't know what the only thing I knew that I loved was being at the ocean that was like when I when we were able to leave New York someone asked where do you want to go and I said I just want to be near the beach that's all I knew and so that that feeling of like understanding what I wanted I didn't know what I needed and so that was a full journey I probably went that was probably a year of that trying to figure out what I loved what I wanted to do with my life what I wanted to so when we got to Florida that was the best cuz I found someone that helped me with that site as well but that's for later but yeah it was it was definitely a journey finding my voice huge impacting I I went before so two days after all of our stuff exploded I was so suicidal that Dino and Bob Goff couple men that have never never left our corner just made somehow I got there I don't know how I got there and how I describe on-site it's where they broke me in a bunch of pieces then they just send you home yeah and so you came back so excited did because an onsite was where I found out uh that there's hope for me yeah I don't know how I'm going to get it done but the choices I've made they're my responsibility the decisions I've made my responsibility where some of the origin of the stuff that came from and caused me to become a person that could do that not my responsibility and I'll get into that in a second but that was huge for me because at that point I was just so filled with my own self-loathing I written myself off and I left on I going I don't know what I'm going to do but there's there might be hope for me there might be hope for me yet so we're in LA and at that same time I could feel myself spiraling and when when you talk when I talk about a spiral if you find out you're caught up in compulsive living you can't control you or you feel like you can't control your compulsions and desires and it just it becomes a pattern cycle and I basically told you we were sitting on the beach then I said to you I'm I'm not going to make it I feel like I'm going to do exactly what I've done and that's pretty much always been my cycle there'd be a cycle that would include things that I hate and then all of a sudden you go through the shame and then the regret and then the remorse then the loathing and do it again so the cycle sometimes can be it can be months in between some of that stuff happen and I just said I'm right on the doorstep like I know and I feel like I can't control myself I want to go somewhere to get real help and you said to me yes I agree with you you know if you do this again there is no second chance there's nothing it's we're done and I might even leave now but I want you to know I hope it goes well and I think it's going to be something that helps you and I'm believing for the best and that was a crazy day and um I went to a rehab in in uh wiinberg Arizona that's specialized in all different types of addictions and mental breakdown and I went there knowing that I had issues and I found out when I was there that I was dealing with multiple addictions well you found out first at onsite I think that you had anxiety disorder disorder and uh chronic depression yeah and that all happened at onsite right so I came home from onsite knowing that I'm chronically depressed unmedicated I have an anxiety disorder and I didn't think I had any anxiety turns out that I internalized it so deeply that it just became a part of who I was and I found out I had some childhood trauma that produced some things in me that I did not see coming and then so when I got to this rehab uh it was is I mean the drive from the airport to the thing is about an hour and a half into the dead of night desert and you get there and you have to give your phone away and they search you and you go through a big medical examination and they basically shut the door behind you and I remember that day going this is uh this is it for me like I can't believe and I couldn't talk to you for two weeks the first two weeks so and this was over Christmas time yeah and our kids are wondering what's going on and then I leave to go to a rehab you're by yourself I was by myself at Christmas with the three kids with the kids on the other side of the country that we just moved to and right before that was Thanksgiving where we were headed to a friend's house that called five minutes before we left and said hey we don't want you to come anymore uh so our kids were like why aren't we going to Thanksgiving at this person's house I'm like you know what we just our plans have changed and every everybody was kind of reeling from that and it's still that's still painful because that's a more kid stuff that isn't deserved like I I get it I mean Ava's talked about that she said that she during that time she didn't know if you were coming back right cuz yeah and cuz she was how old 15 15 16 yeah and so the anxiety she started to have some anxiety is stomach issues started from that which we didn't realize until a couple years ago when she started talking about she's like I think that's when I started to get anxious was I didn't know if Dad was coming back from when he went away in La cuz everything was so up and like just crazy they just cuz Charlie had come come back from her Hospital St in New York anymore yeah we after she was done with the hospital we left from New York the next day and moved to LA so everyone was just reeling it was awful so I'm in I'm in that that rehab and you know that that place to me is it's it's the word they use they use a mental picture called hugging the cactus that's what Real Recovery looks like and you can leave anytime you want and I definitely tried to leave twice maybe three times even well I said if you I told uh someone to tell you if you leave early if you leave ear don't come back here yeah yeah and no talking for two weeks and then you start getting letters and you know I read some of them a couple months ago we were looking through it and I don't I don't like even looking back on the letters so you sit there and I think the feeling of being an utter failure overwhelms you when you're at a rehab and you're just there like what has my life become and I got I remember reading Ava's beautiful handwriting when she basically said Dad I love you um yeah she's the dad I love you and Rehab is gonna be great because they're going to help you fix some of the broken pieces yeah how does that feel as a dad oh man oh it's bad bad because I'm like I don't need my baby girl encouraging me this is not this is not the design and uh it definitely set me up though to to stick it out and yeah I found out early on you know I found out that I had developed Dr a drug addiction and that was hard to hear because it was a part of my life for so long and and it was prescribed and I obviously started to abuse it and so I was a full-fledged drug addict on top of everything else and and with some of my compulsion issues that you know led to things that you never think could be doing when it comes to infidelity and just just lying I found out that I was molested you know as a as a young boy and when that happens your brain chemistry is altered and once they broke it down for me I realized yeah this is this is a significant part of who I am that I have left unaddressed unattended you downplayed that I downplayed my whole life and I was so mad most of the time at rehab I was so mad because I'm like this is such a clear reason why can't why couldn't God save me a different way you know and that I spent every other day mad because I'm like this this isn't this isn't fair you know I've got and they and they teach you and it's good for me to re highlight on our own podcast when you give reasons for why you failed it is not an excuse right if we don't give people reasons nobody can grow from our story there is no excuse for what I did right none and there's still reasons so the reasons are what they are they don't change my consequence they don't change the fact that it's my responsibility but when I found out that sexual abuse to a child in that way can alter you and and and begin a life pattern of secrecy and hiding and secrecy and hiding and you don't even know why don't know why I'm lying I don't know why I'm lying I don't know why I'm doing this I don't know and slowly but surely it was I remember going in there feeling like a block of ice and I felt like every day I would melt a little bit well the first I was going to say the first letter I got from you that I burst into tears was when you said I've realized I've got a drug addiction yeah and I feel so different and I bowled my eyes out because one of my things that I've been praying for for years was the fact that I knew yeah I could see it that it was like what was prescribed to you but it was not good like it was not doing you good and anytime I'd try to bring it up it was like I mean it's like when you talk to an addict it's they're going to give you the push back yeah so it just was always an awful conversation so when you did that when you sent me that letter I bowled my eyes out and I felt such a relief and so then I it just gave me hope for whatever else was coming for the next six weeks of you being there um so yeah that was amazing what you learn in rehab is is tools to stop manipulating everything around you and I had learned ways to manipulate situations and people so I could function how I needed to function and when you go to a place like that there's just nowhere to go there's nowhere to hide and there was some really tough tough hard moments but sticking that out is one of the my proudest victories as a man can you talk about sorry keep going go ahead can you talk about one of the most significant moments that helped you in rehab which one I was thinking about the you talking to your little self oh man cuz I think people think rehab is just maybe sitting in a room and like recover like trying to recover from whatever addiction you have what was the work like like I just remember you talking about this one part that was very um yeah yeah let me get there I'm just gonna take a a breath I think and my tears my tears still work I understand someone was asking May was my daughter did your dad always used to cry when he preach and were those tears real and I'm proud to say they're real I understand the question understand the criticism even uh but crying was a healthy part of my life before one of the few one of the one of the and it has carried over might even be worse so uh my my tears are my tears they come out they come out uh I wish I could do it on command not that good not that special um yeah so you go through it you go through a thing where they they help you dig into the age you were when that abuse happened and it's hard you know it's it's you just don't want to go there and when you first get the rehab there's a bunch of grown men walking around with stuffed animals and you're like man what is what are these guys doing with stuffed animals they're like oh have you been to week three yet I'm like no like you'll see you'll see it's like it's like Fight Club and then we go through our own and I remember as I'm sitting there with the therapist and you do it with three other guys that are in your learning pod um after we start talking for a little bit I remember grabbing my otter like a stuffed otter and I remember like leaving that thing after a lot of stuff went down in that session and walking around with my stuffed animal and I would see new guys they be like what's with the stuffed animal be like you you'll see but they force you to go back to that age where you were damaged and begin to speak life into it and begin to understand yourself and begin to understand what happens to a brain at that age and I had a beautiful family a beautiful upbringing I love my mom and dad they're amazing it just was one horrible situation with a house guest as a parent it's your worst nightmare because we've all been there you trust people and and I was violated I was I was abused and and caus a lot of wreckage and I'm I'm gonna use it and it's I don't know if I'll ever not be emotional I don't think you will I don't think I will it's it's hard to it's hard to think about what it was like to be lost before knowing some of these answers and so you get to this place where you start talking to this kid they make you write a letter with your left hand which looks eerily like the age everybody was and and and it just began a journey for me of being kind to myself and uh being patient with myself cuz what you didn't realize was you were you hated yourself yeah I mean worse than that you loathed yeah yeah there are there are Parts there are parts of me you know with with loathing that I didn't understand cuz I dealt with the up and down of a compulsive issue addiction my whole life and and you just start to hate yourself you start to hate that part of you and then you learn you got to bring that part out and you have to talk to it speak to it look at it um give it help repressing it doesn't work right hating it doesn't work using bad Christian doctrine about praying more does not work and that's where I found out I I will not be a victim to the situation and they start to give you language for that and now I don't look at my abuse as something that destroyed my life I look at it as something that has helped me be a catalyst for healing in my own life and hopefully for other people so I I sit here today with years of sobriety as a you know um a recovering addict and I'm proud of that it's awesome but more than that I sit here with a whole lot of uh compassion and because I know so many people have been through have been through similar things and they haven't had the opportunity to go where I went right and yes my failures were in public and that is bad it's way it's very hard but I don't know if it's worse to fail in private where nobody knows and you just have to deal with ital it so I look at it now even that is a blessing because if you watched my life blow up in public please keep watching you know you owe it to yourself to see where the story goes so I'm an example of somebody that made huge mistakes and rather than just try to not get caught again I wanted to change and there is a there's a part of you that's like ah how quickly can I repair this so I can you know move on and you see it all the time in Ministry like dudes will go through stuff and then a month later they're doing it again whether it's starting a new church and I'm I cannot judge those people I don't all I know for me is it took me decades decades to get where I was and it wasn't going to fix itself in a couple of months you really really got to excavate you got to break it all down sometimes you have to completely allow life God to break it down for something better to be built and that's that's my story for sure I lost I lost a lot in that fire I lost a lot but what came out of it was a different human being and I'm here today you know very very very involved in our recovery Community I did have a relapse and and that was a couple months after I got back from rehab and I you know pride is a thing that dies slowly but I remember talking to the nurses before I left they give you an outpatient plan and they're like you know a lot of guys struggle you know and there there there is you know relapse potential and I'm like I'm not going to relapse which I think everying like I'm be the only guy who never relapses and they teach you how to they teach you how to live a life where you you draw circles there's an Outer Circle which is super healthy Behavior there's a middle circle which is danger ground it's stuff you can't avoid as an addict as covering addict but it's stuff that you really need to be mindful of and then there's an inner circle which is a complete relapse got to go back and when I had my relapse only a couple months maybe three four months after getting back I remember looking at you and explaining the situation is it as if it was already over like hey I I this is what happened and I'm sorry I understand if you will if you if you go understand I've got no more chances here I don't see this like that I didn't know that this particular thing was going to trip me up like that and I know that I can fix it here's what I'm going to do to fix it if you'll allow me and you were really gracious with me I don't know where you dug to find that kind of Grace but it's a real part of my our story and and it's important that people know that because I know a lot of people try to get sober and they fail it's a terrible feeling and I'm not sitting up here you know as a guy who I I've been there I'm there today I've got to stay sober today I've got to stay recovered today and I got to do it again tomorrow but I like being able to look at guys and say man I I'm sure you've been humili I have been too I'm sure your situation was bad mine was real bad yeah I'm sure you feel discouraged because you you might have relapsed I've been there um but there's hope right and so that's what the rehab part of this story for me was uh was powerful I don't know I've already been able to help a couple other people get there and and that's a that's a joy it's beautiful and between the two of us doing the work that we've done you know we're sitting here very different people yep but really grateful for it you are a very different person and I think that's been hard for me it's been sad because the people that have left our life I feel like oh if if they you know you were you were a great friend a great person before this but you're an even better person now like you're such a different person and I think I I saw someone put up the other day on Instagram something along the lines of that like people remember where you were but it's a shame that they don't stick around to see what what you become yeah and yeah I mean I think that we've got a lot of friends that have stuck around been it's been amazing but I just want to say publicly I'm proud of who you are thank you and the man that you've become and the work that you put in every day to be that person I know it's not easy I know any addiction isn't easy to O overcome and but you do it really well day by day and you're very conscious of it and I see it yeah and I acknowledge it was also heavily thank you I was heavily addicted to my own opinion right which is a very Sinister but just as deadly you know addiction and yeah I'm I'm I'm grateful for where we sit you know some people that left we'll talk about friendships in depth but I think it's hard when you go through a valley and people leave and you get out of the valley and they might come back and you're so different that it's like God if we yeah got nothing to we yeah we're not the same people so it's like I you you had to leave for your reasons but when you're not with somebody in the fire you can't understand what the fire smells like what it feels like because you chose to leave the reasons don't need to get judged you just weren't there yeah and so you missed that that part of someone's life and that's that's not on them that's on me that's on the person that made the mistake cuz you you know you you don't have to go through valleys with people you don't and so yeah that is something we found though is that when we do catch up with some people in our heart we're like don't don't feel sorry for us yeah we're good I know you say you're praying for me but I'm kind of praying for you you're still in it so that's that's been new to be like yeah I know like you might leave and feel sorry for for me don't W like the feeling of Freedom that you have when you are honest and living with no secrets no what is it no secrets no lies no secrets no lies um no untalked about triggers yeah yeah it's uh super freeing and very powerful so it's sometimes when I see people I'm like oh you still have to live like that it's hard it's hard been there yeah been there um you know with with re uh relationships Brian and Bobby and our relationship to Hillsong for those of you who don't know you know that the church we were part of was a part of a a bigger picture and when I let people down it began like a Cascade of things that were that were discovered and happening and uh what my relationship like what do I think about Brian yeah what's your how do you feel about that now cuz I know people ask that they do they do they do or they want to they want you to be like yeah yeah a certain way I mean it I I'm I will always love Brian Bobby no question love as a choice I choose that I choose to love them my experience with Brian up until my epic failure was he was uh a hero to me really pulled me out of a crowd and just said I believe in you and and you know gave me opportunity gave me trust uh I never once felt like I went through any battles that he didn't have my back you know we we got along really well most of the time and and and then as I got older towards the end of my time at Hillsong NC we had we had difference of opinions a lot which he was always relatively cool with he was never he always left room for that we definitely bued heads and we definitely had some issues and had it not gone down like it did I probably would have still left but it wouldn't have been bad and so my overriding sentiment about Brian is that I'm grateful I'm really grateful for him because I've been taught too good to stop at where the tragedy is so where how I feel about Brian now very different um I was crushed by what happened but before that if you had to ask me what that man means to me I'm grateful for him you know he gave me gave me a lot of trust and let me do something that was will always be a really really special part of my life to be able to plant that church in the middle of the greatest city on earth and to see it explode was what far beyond what we ever thought could happen and so I'm I'm grateful for Brian um I think he was extremely proud of us for that for some reason at the end it kind of was twisted but yeah for the most part like we you know I think the hard the hardest part of that was that the narrative was shifted so quickly from him being a second dad to me proud of me tied as a drum to like this guy is a renegade Vagabond always been doing like all this stuff started coming out I was so like man that's not that's not the way this was yeah and then to find out that I wasn't the only one that had some things that weren't talked about that's what shocked us the whole time anyway is that we saw the stuff going down and we' see interviews in media and I kept thinking I know I know so much they must not think I'm GNA say anything because this is outrageous like I could I could do one interview and put all this to bed and out a lot of people about a lot of things and I think that might have been the motivation probably for why they kept doing things because your reaction naturally would be to do that yeah I think they were preparing I think they were prep preparing for that so in they did all this and it's like oh you didn't like I wonder if the conversation was we got to hit him before he hits us cuz he's definitely going to say something and I do know a lot about a lot of stuff right but I haven't found it constructive on this side of the situation to talk about other people's business that stuff comes out on its own we have never and I don't know if we will I mean it's a point now where it's like cool yeah I do have a microphone again right and I don't expect people to talk as recklessly now that they know that I'm not just going to fade off into you know Oblivion um on oh yeah well I was going to say everybody sounds right until they're cross-examined and one of the hardest parts of this was watching things be said with no defense at all it was like whatever you wanted to say about us about the church nobody was saying anything and found out a lot during that time and I feel like there's an old adage you find out what you're worth to somebody when you can offer them nothing nothing MH and if that's true and there are times in my life I felt like it's true it seemed like the moment I couldn't offer Hillsong church the church out we were a part of our whole lives anything well the reaction and response was like man I don't know if I really mattered because I can't offer anything in fact I'm taking and it was such a swift hardcore cut that it shocked me and it shouldn't have because that has been our culture when we were a part of Hill song church that's just what we did we'd be at Global Retreats and there'd be a guy who was a pastor there for two decades up until then and then you'd show up and he's gone and we'd be like Hey where's where's that guy oh he's gone you know he left he got fired whatever and we'd be like ah good writtens you know we'd laugh make a joke about it I just never thought it was going to be me right what it was and so it it stopped surprising me because I was like of course what we do but my thing was the culture of cover up that's the culture that we had and if anybody says anything different they don't know the situation what I mean by cover up is there was a time in my life where I felt like cover up could be switched out for the word protection protect and I now look at it when I was involved in things that were covering things up for other people my whole life as a pastor and different there are sometimes where it was protection where people don't need to know but there was other times where it should have been brought to light and the way we operated at Hill song church was if it benefits us to be honest we're going to be real honest if it doesn't we're going to be really private and so the motivation wasn't what's best or what's right per se it was what works best for us and our brand and our church name and that's cool you got to make your decisions but that's what happened yeah so if there's any other narrative about it I'm sorry we we lived it we're there and for us it turned out it was better for the church to make me uh um look even worse than I made myself look because it evidently I think their logic even they handled it so bad and I think the logic was um you know the more we put on him the less it's going to come our way yeah and having said all that babe again to go back to the truth of it it's my fault that they were in the situation how they handled it great people can pick it apart for days and it does deserve some commentary and some criticism but to go back to the original impetus of it it was me so I have l so much bitterness and frustration about what people's response was to my actions because of the ability to own my own failures right and that's that's consuming I don't even have time to be mad anymore about what this guy said or or or what this guy meant um that's freeing yeah so when you're in a situation like this I never want to forget you know let me just work on my side of the tracks but yeah that's for you to get cut off by our our church was extra hard because it was even more your life than it was mine you talk about that yeah that was it was hard because it was my whole life has been Church yeah and so when I was cut out of that which of course I would be because I'm married to you so it had to be that way I I mean it wasn't like I wanted to stay around you know what I mean but I think it was just the fact that you just kind of left yeah and I never heard from anyone Bobby did reach out a Bunch for months and months and it was very sweet um but I just because of what was happening in the media I found it really hard to try and text back because I was like this is so it felt fake to me because of all the that they were saying and my kids having to every time and every time something came in came up it was another wave for me of just getting hit by betrayal hit by this anxiety that I just I just wanted it to go away like we weren't saying anything why is anyone else saying anything like it was just so hard for me to understand cuz I was I felt like just thrown out in that setting and so she did reach out a lot which I appreciated but then I finally just had to say and be really honest as I found my voice I had to text her and I texted her what I did and just said all the things I had to say I don't understand this I don't know why you didn't protect us here I don't know why are people lying there you had you had these people you let them whilst on staff say things about me and my husband that aren't true and you know aren't true and they didn't protect us and so I said all of that and that was it I never heard from her again she never wrote you back on that one which is another part of culture like when you stand up for yourself like that right it all the nice but I needed to I needed to say it and um move on and that's been it's been hard because I miss them were like my second parents so and I miss a lot of things about the church we would say we still love you know the the church it it is being scrutinized and it really should be as much as we love it we're also really aware of things that we would have done different that were done that were done that that are that are wrong yeah and so that's hindsight I feel like anybody who's about growth should be able to do that you should be able to look back on anything you were part of and say I do something you know this different and that different were we're there and I think the response of Hillsong Church you know from our view is just I've just been you know we just stopped caring a long time ago and just walked away yeah and I think people have said well why didn't if you're not guilty of things why didn't you say something and I said well number one it wouldn't have mattered but two we also signed an NDA which is a practice of most corporations and some Churches not saying it's right not saying it's wrong but the way it works and we didn't know any of this because i' never gotten fired before um we were told we had to sign this NDA in order to get half of a a severance payment for like a year salary and you have no money we were scrambling didn't know what was going on and it was a very it was you know not a lot of money but if I didn't sign it I couldn't got anything and which I now look back and I go that's I didn't know that it was going to go the way it went so I was like yeah yeah I'm going to sign it and because I'm not going to need to say anything well you're not thinking either like you're just just like they they they were they were pretty forceful on it as well like you need to sign this today today and I didn't I didn't have to sign it and I should have had a lawyer present yeah didn't know what I was doing but did it I signed it and I think that's why they went so hard because they knew I couldn't say anything yeah and I it wasn't just because the NDA I would have probably said something maybe but um I don't know about that practice I feel like that practice is is one that can be scrutinized but that's what happened so people are like why didn't you say something early I was like well I was petrified because I didn't want to lose the little bit of support that we had for my family and I signed a freaking legal document that was so extensive I back on now I'm like what in world if you went over it now it's pretty wild but that that's in our past but people need to know that's the truth about it and um you know it was a hard lesson to learn really really really really sorry for the position that I put a lot of people in Hillsong Church in so what people need to understand when you talk about churches that are failing it's typically the leadership that's failing and the amazing people that are part of it have nothing to do with that that's that's how I feel about a lot of things that have to do with Hillsong is that um we there's some people that made it difficult and it got cloudy somewhere along the way started beautiful was powerful was going forward somewhere in there there were some cracks and it was it was hard um to deal with the Fallout and to watch everything in that that regard crumble but those are the consequences of of my actions and it was what it was so what do you how do you feel like the media affected you or us you especially because there was a lot of stuff said man really tough really hard if I'm being as honest as I can I it was brutal I think we got very fortunate early to get the advice to stop pain shopping M and for those not familiar with that term it means looking for things that are going to literally cause you pain what what can I what can I find today that's going to make me sad and it's actually a symptom of an unhealthy life but I was I was a pain Shopper early and it was also unavoidable you know I I You' go to stores it was just heavily heavily heavily covered and it's It Made Me Stronger because it went at my number one my deep one of my deepest needs is to be understood yes that has driven a lot of my life to be understood and to be in my estimation so misunderstood and to be able to do nothing about it uh was just really hard and again it it felt like nobody was standing up for anything and here's what I learned in some of those hard moments how stupid would it be for me to haggle about the details of my right of my AC who who's who's really struggling in that case like so for me to call and clarify accounts that were very untrue almost everything reported was spun to the way of whoever was saying it I thought that's my old Pride again because the fact is I have to go heal I gotta walk away and it's like no it was this not that who what what are you talking about I failed I failed my wife I failed my church I failed myself and that's what I'm going to focus on and there will come a day where I'm going to sit on a podcast with a blue jacket and have my own microphone and I will be able to speak to my own situation and I trusted that that day would come that day is here it does feel really liberating to be able to say no I'm definitely going to speak to that now you know and it's not from a bitter place right we're at a place just to give people information that will help them heal and that's um so the Media stuff I would just say to people please especially the Christian Media pretty disappointed what I found was the Christian Media was just cutting and pasting tabloid stuff like how far have we gotten where it's like ah yeah so that that was tough that was tough to see but guess guess who put us in the position to have false things said me yeah so um I'm looking forward to never being in that position again you know we went through a hard time as a family and it was in the media but we also went through a really hard time with a lot of our relationships friends that we thought were family ended up you know leaving or not being there for For You especially as a friend who has always been there for everyone else who is a guy that will get on a plane for anyone at any time when they're in trouble how did that make you feel with some of your close relationships that you lost yeah it's extremely hard extremely painful and and and sad and then obvious like of of why this is happening and I put a lot of people in a very very difficult spot and it took me a while there's like there's two sides of you there's the the right healing healthy answer and there's the the broken side of you that has to have a voice you don't have to express it but you have to be honest about because there was a time there I was trying to not even be honest with myself like no no it's cool I understand I don't understand and even be able to say that was a breakthrough for me because I was so good at like you know saying the right thing and I had to have people dig out sometimes the wrong thing to start a new pattern in my life of not faking that stuff so oh yeah my friends they did what they did it does hurt you no no no I get it I didn't get protect them yeah yeah yeah I would like you would and the truth is this the easy answer is when you break the trust of your friends you don't have the right to criticize their reaction other people can but as far as I'm concerned the friends that I had like the the crew that I used to run with that people would recognize I don't talk to any of those guys substantially well I don't talk to any of them except for one very lightly and I did have one conversation with a friend that was preempted because we were going to see each other at a mutual friend party and I think he was worried about running into me and yeah it was what it was I we were on the phone I'm like hey that's good to hear from you and I know that you're calling me because you know we're about to run into each other um and I wasn't as healed then or as honest so it might have might have been bad when you're the one that that broke the trust you have to respect people's process and their dignity and whatever they have to do in addition to that there hadn't been a scandal like we we were a part of in a long time and everybody was really scared MH nobody knew what was happening nobody knew it was true right and I think people pull back from me because even if they were to ask me how do they know what I'm saying is true right it's not necessarily my friendship ethic I am I do have my own version of friendship what it means to me and I had to learn I can't put that off on other people it's not it doesn't have to be yours and who who's to say mine's even healthy like when you talk about the getting on a plane to fly everywhere uh that is what I used to do I don't know if it was healthy I Had No Boundaries and so my biggest strength yes I do believe in loyalty I do believe I could be there for friends and there's not much you can do to get me out of your life like I I actually prefer it when people are in trouble because I'm coming and that's just how I'm wired not everybody's like that we had one one of my friends actually say I'm just not good at adversity yeah I'm not a friend that's built for adversity like well that's that's an interesting convenient way to say that cool but at least he s aware enough to go I'm not the adversity guy if you're going through a tough time going have to find somebody else I'm not wired like that you know what else it did though it made me really question my motives CU you know when you do stuff for people do you do it so they will return and like you take something like someone living in our house or us giving somebody a car or us doing what we can do for somebody and then you look back at those same people who turn their back on you and you immediately have to check why did I do what I did in the first place ah I did it because it was right so I don't feel like I don't have that bitter thing of like I was there for you but you weren't there for me I didn't do it so you'd be there for me I did it because I felt like it was right and that's a really big temptation to to feel wounded about that and I got over it and I got over it's taken me a long time I'm not going to like act like that was easy for me was not because I love my friends but I found out what kind of relationships I developed and because of what I didn't know some of the things I didn't know I had areas of my life that were shut off to everybody nobody knew and I was as intimate as I knew how to be but didn't know that there was so much stuff that I wasn't that I wasn't honest about so I I have talked to some of my friends some have called and apologized when one guy said I do it so differently to which I said sweet here's the truth if it hadn't happened like that I don't think I would have healed at the rate that we did yeah because if two of my best friends would have stuck around I would have leaned on them talk to them I would have hid in there but because they all scattered it was like me a mirror and you and that's all we had we had to get to know each other yeah we had to become best friends we had to hang out with our children we had to there was nobody else to lean on and I look back on it and we had just enough of the right people we didn't have extra didn't have one of our friends said you're going to have exactly who you need in this season and he was right and as I look back like every I look back on some of the Lonely Seasons I'm like had those people not left it wouldn't have been the same for me it's still painful and it still was a bummer but I love those guys I wish them the best uh like I said we're super different now there are some relationships I'm still believing that will come back around it is a joy when in this season when relationships drop back in your life and they do get healed and they get better and there's some like I said before where you just shake the hand you're like we're never going to be we're never going to be like that again yeah I get it I get why you ran but the the the reality is you definitely ran and so I know it it exposed me it exposed us let's all grow and I think that's a good discussion for people to have like what what is what is the response when somebody goes through that let's look at it we found it to be you know very very very um let a grieving yeah it's literally like you Lo you're losing things for me was like I I literally probably two and a half at least maybe even some of them still I grieve grieve the relationships we had yeah but babe this is the the the part that I do get upset about and I'm still working through is the fact that we had friends that we were they were couples you had your own relationships with them and those people also abandon you yeah that's that's on me not them firstly as I've told you before but that was tough for us to understand because because it didn't make sense to us and and I'm going yeah leave me I get that but why would you do that to my wife and again it becomes a mirror moment where you got to look in the mirror I did this I started this but it wasn't fair and we we were able to say that we were able to land on your side of things going no your offense is legit that exposed a lot like some people just never people we were friends with for decades didn't even even heard from them yeah not even a text I'm like I I would text my worst enemy right and in the middle of a crisis there were people who they just left you and some people spiritualized it some people rationalized it and you got to do what you got to do it's like cool if and I don't think everybody's proud of that but I think there is a there is a a side of it that someone said to me my mental health had to come first if I stayed in your life during that hard time it wouldn't have been good for me and I said I get that that's okay you've got to do that that's probably healthy thing to do again it's hard for me CU it's like but you're you're the priority there so I think with relationships we've just found there as honest as you make them they're as deep as you make them now we don't really play around it's like you're not g to catch me I guess I'm more careful with my words yeah because we did have some heavy things said you know family you're my brother I love you for life got kids too yeah we used to have a joke with each other's kids like if your daddy ever goes to heaven early I'm going to take care of you and that stuff actually sticks with kids yep so our kids were sitting there going like so those people were Liars too dad like well how come they get away with lying I'm going no no no no they're not lying um and then a therapist told me to stop defending people who have left my life so my kids can have their process and they have their own opinion about it but again they've had their process which has been really great to watch as well and the fact that they can be honest about it and we let them be honest about it not in a not in a degrading or anything way they're just honest with their feelings and a couple of your friends have reached out and talked to especially Ava and to Charlie one one sorry yeah and at one point Ava was like thanks for reaching out but I'm not ready yeah I'm not ready to talk to you and they respected that which was great and then she has since then talked yeah um but and I have been explicitly clear with them that it's the these are my issues caused this relational breach not them they're doing the best they can but you got to process it the way you can so I think the only thing that I took from that that's to me something it's not a concern it's just something to talk about like we're all leaders me and my friends are all church leaders and if that's how we act it's not right or wrong it's just let's be honest about it so when someone Falls you know say it we're we're leaving them right and that's okay but we need to people need to know that because if that's how the leadership is how does that flow down flow down to the Christian communities and unfortunately I think it's pretty common and and I think that's what we build our stuff on you know there is nothing you can do that's GNA you know break there there don't be ashamed of this like we we built our oh yeah you're accepted here and it is hard I'm it's a human moment but we do have to we did unfollow a lot of people because you I can't watch certain people preach about some subject it's like dude Don't Preach about don't talk about yeah don't talk about you have a heart for restoring Fallen ministers because you did you would have called me yeah it is I did have to T that's a tough that's just being human I'm not saying I'm right or wrong I'm just saying there are a moments I got to check myself but I always land on the same freaking thing if you want to have great friendships don't be dishonest in them right I wasn't honest with my friends I was honest as I knew how to be and I wasn't so much a liar to your face to my friends I was a avoid allow you to think things are true even though I know they're not which is just as much a lie is me verbalizing something and I had to come but don't you think everyone does that in relationships and friendships they do and in life in general they do yeah so that's a hard one as well it is it's hard to like I didn't know and I think there was some stuff that Spilled Out into other areas that you know I love the theory we've always stood on don't judge somebody on their failure judge them on their reaction to the correction of their failure M so I hope my my reaction shows who who who I am I'm that's what I was goingon to say like you took responsibility from the get-go and you you did the process all the way through and you like I think you did it very well as well as you could yeah and so for people to like come at you in some of those ways I that was hard for me as a wife to watch as well I'm sure it was but it just it's such a beautiful place to be where you like who who am I to to hold any bitterness towards these guys for not acting like what however I think they should act yeah hello news flash so I there are parts of me I'm like yeah I do friendship different now that's great I'm sad sometimes I look back on that chapter of my life and I love those guys I'm sad yeah but I'm good like we're life goes on life is long not everybody that's in your life is in there is in your life for life right some are for seasons and evidently sometimes that chooses us we don't choose it because I wouldn't have chosen to break a relationship with any of the guys that I love like that so uh but that's where we stand with friendships now we love everybody we're not holding any bitterness or any you know animosity I think we're just trying to heal and we're moving forward one thing we've definitely learned with friendships is when they break down when there's dysfunction focus more on your role Focus where where are you in the story because it's so easy to like point at yeah so for instance what that means for me if I was mad at one of my friends that left my criticism would be you're a hypocrite that would be my criticism for them because you don't carry the same logic you don't there's other people you you know you're not consistent with and you're saying one thing and and then if I look in the mirror I don't think I'm the guy to hold somebody else accountable for something that may or may not be hypocritical so rather than point the finger I'm just in this habit of going I'm not going to go over to that side of the track I'm just going to work on here I'm I'm working on my own hypocrisy I'm working on my own ability to be a friend I don't choose to look at my situations like did I have bad friends no it's probably more accurate to say maybe I wasn't a great friend at times because I wasn't honest with my life Fair yeah and it helps you stay free so that's my my encouragement to anybody with friendship heartache it's real it's hard it takes a while time doesn't heal anything yeah you love that intentional work heals time makes it worse so when people like Time Heals I have not found that to be true I think time makes you a time bomb that's what it does so just time alone no intentional work intentional forgiveness intentional acceptance that's what changes somebody's life and the ability to accept things was not in my vocabulary before all this went down I if I didn't like it I'm not accepting it well guess what I don't control everything and I can't control what somebody else is doing so I've learned how to I accept that yeah and I don't have that doesn't mean I like it approve of it it doesn't mean that I endorse it but like when someone left my life it's like Okay I accept it it's it's hurtful and I'm sad and I'm sorry that I put you in a position to leave and I accept there's something really peaceful about that's why it's like a Bedrock of recovery is praying prayers centered around accepting things because it's a it's a superpower if you get it right I accept it I was going to say that's so hard for me to do yeah but and it's got to be so hard for you so that's how I know that you're doing doing the work because that is not what you would do and the the flip side of is that I got to really protect myself around people that love us that haven't gotten over it and it's not even their relationships it's like man yeah I can't stand this guy that guy that guy and I'm like no like that's not I'm first of all don't reopen all this stuff in me it was my relationship I have settled it I have peace please don't bring it back up with your offense you've now taken on my offense my offense and you live in it and it's not even fair for them but yeah so we're we're we're at a good place with friendships and relationships and we're just going to cultivate the kind of relationships moving forward we just yeah they're they're going to be easier they're going to be honest and it is what it is so yeah that's that's my summation of how I feel about friendships it's a good conversation to have yeah we'll have more down the road yeah for sure um it's been said a few times the comeback when are you coming back or when are you come back Carl like I want to be there with you when you come back back like what do you feel about that um how do you feel about that I appreciate it I I totally understand it because it's a word used and it's a it's a thing um what we think is there's no comeback because the person that I was is no longer here just not here that version of me died right and what has developed is a new person a new life a new lease on life a new mentality a new way to think so I wouldn't say I'm coming back because there's nothing to come back to the chapter closed to go back to that would mean I'm I'm going backwards literally I don't want to come back to that life I don't want to go back to that uh Church Circle I don't want to go back to that way of thinking I don't want to go back to any of it I feel like for us it's a new chapter if anything it's a rebirth I mean we started our second marriage MH um there are other things that we've decided to look at like that we're in the second half of life and so no if people are like are you coming back nope I'm not coming back because you know a preaching Church we're doing a podcast to talk about things that were painful for us in the hopes that other people won't have to go through the same thing yeah so it's a rebirth into that that's it relax there's no comeback there's nothing to come back to do miss preaching yeah yeah I miss parts of it and yes easy answerers yes I miss preaching because I like what we're able to do I I know also what I'm created to do I know what I'm good at I'm a good preacher I'm I'm God gifted me to be able to communicate things in a way that a lot of people resonate with so that that's a part of it that I miss but I'm really content in the season and do you like what you're doing now yeah I love it I love it I love it I love I it feels really free to not be leading something so heavy right and I'm still enjoying it and there's there's a price to pay both ways so I love I love what we do we have you've started multiple businesses to tell people you know this this journey for you has been beautiful and selfless like you've done multiple jobs in Florida you came home one day and I said what are you doing you said I'm a I'm a I'm a Uber Eats driver and I think I went outside and lit myself on fire um I just couldn't believe your resilience you had three jobs and I I I had to get a new job as well and it was just a crazy chapter but you you're the bravest person I know to be able to do that it was incredible well it was it was hard but it was like trying to figure out what we were going to do because all we knew was church yeah which again I think is why a lot of people just rush over it and keep doing it cuz they're like I don't know what else I'm not I can't do anything else with my life this is all I know which is sad because there's so much more to life as well and I I'll say this I think how I would sum it up is people talk about the word restoration here's what I wanted to be restored to your husband and their dad yeah so I'm good right people always put the word to the words to Ministry on the back of restoration to Ministry and I believe it does the whole word a disservice you know we've never been about that we've never had a single conversation about that um it's simply been about let's try to let's try to restore our lives and from there we'll move forward you know someone told me they said hey you only got to convince four people that you're changing and that's Laura and your children after that everything else is gravy I'm in the gravy stage I'm good we are content now in the present really excited about the future and healed enough to talk about the past so all in all we got a whole lot to be grateful for and I'm grateful for you grateful for you

Channel: The B-Side

Views: 224,227

Keywords: carl lentz, laura lentz, hillsong, rehab, addiction recovery, therapy, divorce, triggers, relationship goals, marriage advice, how to save your marriage, communication, how to talk to your spouse, telling the truth, brian houston, bobbi houston, the church, church hurt

Id: dbSZBTD1WBs

Length: 67min 11sec (4031 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 06 2024