Called To Communion w/ Dr.David Anders - 10/13/17

the families of all our EWTN employees special blessings mm thanks Mike how's my sound is it good what's stopping you from becoming a Catholic why can't women become priests one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six I don't understand why I have to earn salvation 2805 eight five nine three nine six why do I need to confess my sins to a priest what's stopping you this is called to communion with dr. David Anders on the EWTN global Catholic radio network welcome to call the community I'm your host David abyss remember to be on the show called communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six if you're outside the US or Canada you can dial one two zero five two seven one two nine eight five you may also text EWTN to five five zero zero zero wait for a response text your first name and question message and data rates may apply the main line to be on call to communion again is [Music] [Music] 1-855-249-9865 for my te a Catholic and you might have people giving you a hard time about your Catholic faith and what Catholics do this that or the other thing and if you would like me to take a stab at answering some of those questions I'd be happy to it one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six you see I myself am a convert to the Catholic Church I grew up in the Presbyterian denomination and thought that I would become presbyterian theologian and actually sort of intended to spend my life shoring up the Reformation critique of Catholicism now we're coming up now on the 500th anniversary of the Reformation Martin Luther's promulgation publication of his ninety-five theses that started the whole ball rolling and I thought that was just a grand thing and I dove in and did my graduate study in theological study on the Reformation theology I studied John Calvin and had the very surprising event that John Calvin made me a Catholic and so I had to kind of work through with the standard objections to Catholicism that that most Protestants have and came to realize that the reality was nothing like the stereotype I've been given growing up and what I discovered was a marvelous world a wonderful world a very very special world a world that made sense of my reality my life my ethical sensibilities my spiritual longing an aspiration in a way that I had never seen reflected in any other religious tradition before and I love to tell that story in fact that's what I do every day here on called the communion on BTN global Catholic radio network so wherever you are in that journey towards the Catholic Church or perhaps away from the Catholic Church please call us and tell us about it at one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six now here's an interesting question we got via email this one says can a member of a Methodist Church's clergy who is also a Catholic receive the Eucharist and I have to confess normally we don't get a lot of original questions we recycle a lot of them this is one I've not heard before right so the way I understand this the person wants to know this someone who is canonically Catholic probably baptized Catholic receive sacraments in the Catholic Church and then and then quit practicing the Catholic faith but without actually repudiating their Catholic faith and went off and got himself or herself ordained in a Methodist Church this person wants to know if that individual could come back to participate in Catholic sacraments well so I don't know the state of this person's participation in the Methodist Church you know it could be a if somebody's just on staff and a Methodist Church like perhaps they're the music Minister or something they play the organ on on Sunday morning and actually I know a lot of Catholics that are in that situation they got to make a living you know they may be musicians and they go to Mass on Saturday night and then they go work for a Lutheran Church or a Methodist Church on Sunday morning because they got to pay the bills well that's fine that's okay but but if you're actually accepting clerical orders in a Methodist Church then that's that is in a performative kind of way giving credence it's a it's a it's a symbolic gesture that says that you affirm what the Methodist Church teaches about the nature of Holy Orders but what the but the Methodist Church teaches about the nature of Holy Orders and where they come from and what they mean is in contradiction to what the Catholic Church teaches about Holy Orders and so there is a there is at least an implied contradiction between a dogma of the Catholic faith and then and what your actions would seem to convey all right and that that's problematic because that that sort of kind of puts you in danger of heresy now we don't usually Catholic Church doesn't talk about Protestants as heretics heresy heresy is a crime as a term we used for Catholics who commit the canonical crime of denying a Dogma that they ought to believe by divine and supernatural faith and since you know our Protestant brothers and sisters they don't know better and they're not Catholics and we wouldn't expect them to believe Catholic faith so we don't use the term heretic to describe them but to somebody who would different identifies as a Catholic and understands what they're supposed to do and says yes I'm a Catholic but I reject you know say this Catholic dogma or that Catholic dogma well that's the canonical crime of heresy and and I'm not I'm not gonna go so far as to say that this person is guilty of that but I'd say they're attending pretty strongly in that direction and and they need to give a strong can see Rees consideration to what the Catholic Church is what their involvement in this non Catholic denomination the nature of that involvement and and they're not practicing the Catholic faith obviously so they've their missed their obligation to go to Holy Mass and probably other obligations as well prior to receiving Communion they'd have to come back into the full participation of the Catholic Church go to confession repent of their sins including I would say this performative contradiction to the Catholic dogma and then once they do that of course there's no barrier to their going to Holy Communion but they need to straight with the church first alright I appreciate the email thank you so much the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six we're going to go to a short break when we come back I'll take your calls a 1-800 five eight five nine three nine sex sharing the fullness of the Catholic faith one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six this is call to communion with dr. David Anders on the EWTN global Catholic radio network this is father Joseph Mary this is dr. ray guarendi host of the doctor is in hello this is Bishop Mike cysts from the Diocese of San Angelo Texas thank you for listening to the EWTN global Catholic radio network I'm Jeanette D'Mello editor in chief of the National Catholic Register and co-host of register radio with Matthew Bunsen join us every week as we talk with the registers expert writers and editors about the news you need to know and offer authentic Catholic insights on the important stories that impact your life register radio every Saturday at 7 p.m. Eastern and Sunday at 11 a.m. Eastern here on EWTN global Catholic radio ewtn religious catalogue is your online destination for catholic books dvds rosaries devotionals and every purchase directly supports EWTN submission ready to shop visits EWTN are c-calm today celebrating 100 years of Fatima with Monsignor Charles Pope though the messages of Our Lady of Fatima were completed in 1917 we had from sister Lucia an important application of the message for our times she wrote to Cardinal Carlos Farah in 1981 saying the final battle between the Lord and the kingdom of Satan will be about marriage in the family don't be afraid she added because whoever works for the sanctity of marriage will always be fought against and opposed in every way because this is the decisive issue then she concluded never Our Lady has already crushed his head work and pray every day in your own marriage and family to uphold the sanctity of holy matrimony and the family has God sets it forth in the scriptures pray the rosary every day for marriage and family join a wtn as we celebrate the 100th anniversary of Fatima visit ewtn.com / fatima what's stopping you from becoming a Catholic this is called to communion with dr. David Angela one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six welcome back to call to communion I'm your host David Anders the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six where you go to the phones now I'm gonna start with Sarah and Massachusetts Sarah welcome to call to Communion hi how are you pretty good how are you I'm doing alright what can I do for you today good alright so I kind of come from a similar background as you I was raised I would have called myself a Calvinist um and I've I converted just a few years ago a few days ago I was hanging out with a friend of mine from childhood so she is still in the church that I grew up going to and is not on board with Catholic beliefs so she would start to ask me some questions and then the topic of prayer to Saints came up and I referenced like the cloud of witnesses and the community of the Saints to explain to her why why it's okay to pray to Saints but then she wants to know why why is it useful to pray to Saints and I asked I referenced where Jesus said wherever two or more gathered in my my name I am also there with you and then she immediately shot back with saying that that purse is taken out of context and that it's actually in regards to discipline in the church and I was like I I thought she was crazy and then I looked it up and that is in fact the context so can it still be used to apply to prayer to Saints and if not are there other verses that I could use to explain it to her a little bit better yeah thanks I really appreciate the question so you're absolutely correct in your friend is correct that the context of Matthew 18 is about expelling people from the Fellowship of the church due to immorality and and the lack of repentance now there is a way I think that that context itself can be leveraged in your favor all right it's it's going to be a very indirect rate route but let's look at this so what does that imply about the nature of the church in the mind of Christ and of course we have to also compare this with Matthew 16 well what it suggests is that the church is a visible Society from which a person can be expelled by a juridical decision all right now that's something that was well known to the Protestant reformers I mean John Calvin wrote extensively about the practice of excommunication but it's something that is remote from the mind of most evangelical Protestants today they tend to think of the church as sort of an invisible aggregate of all the people who have true faith in Christ and and the concept that the church is a visible Society with with with identifiable limits of inside and outside in that a person could be ejected from inside to outside by a juridical decision carried out by executive authority that's a view of the church that is really really remote from the minds of most evangelical Protestants you know what are the terms for ejecting somebody from the fellowship well unrepentant son now st. Paul elaborates this in first Corinthians in Chapter five he deals with the man who is in manifest grave son who he acknowledges as belonging to the body of Christ that's very very important so we're not we're talking about someone who's received for the grace of God through baptism and faith Paul recognizes him as a member of Christ's body and yet he tells the Corinthians following up on the teaching of Jesus here to kick the guy out of the church until he quits his immoral behavior and then to readmit him to fellowship so that his soul can be saved on the day of judgment so that suggests that within the body of Christ there are clearly people who have no right to participate in the sacraments of the church and have to be expelled in order to bring them to well that right there sort of undercuts the notion of salvation that many Protestants have namely that we can enter into the state of salvation through faith alone and that nothing we can do can imperil our souls from that point on well that's that's radically contradicted by both of these passages of the Bible there are many other texts that suggest that within the body of Christ there is there's not sort of perfect equivalence or perfect identity between all the members of the body but there is a differentiation in degrees of love and charity so in the book of Ephesians for instance st. Paul in chapters 1 and 2 and 3 actually well praise that the eyes of our hearts might be enlightened so that we can come to know the depth of the love of Christ that has been revealed to us through the gospel and he expresses the the conviction that that the Corinthians the Ephesians aren't there yet right that he says I can sometimes he says I can feed you only milk and not solid food you're not ready for the fullness of the faith well these are people who have received the spirit and yet they're not walking in the fullness of charity and love and illumination that is offered to them in the gospel well again many Protestants don't have a category for that kind of sanctification and spiritual growth they recognize that there can be growth in holiness but that there can be this sort of deep mystical abiding through the life of intense and contemplative prayer and something that has to be yearned for and and longed for eagerly and prayed for so that the so that Christian life can be marked out in terms of infancy and maturity against the standard of whether or not my will is perfectly aligned with the will of God that's that's not a concept of sanctity that many Protestants have now st. James takes that idea that that Christian life is hierarchically ordered I mean Christian society I should say so hierarchically ordered and that there are their grades of holiness within the body of Christ and he applies it directly to the question of the efficacy of prayer in st. James in his epistle he says to the Christians why are you praying and your prayers are not answered he says you're not getting your prayers answered because you're asking with wrong motives to spend what you get on your pleasures and clearly again James has in mind people who really have the Spirit of God who have faith all right but they're they're not living holy lives their hearts are not right before God and their prayers are therefore not efficacious and he follows it up in chapter 5 he says but the prayer of a righteous man availeth much and then he points to the example the Old Testament prophets who could pray that the rain would come of the rain would stop and God would hear their prayers so here we have embedded in all of these texts the idea that there are genuine Christians all right who can be expelled from the Fellowship of the church or who are in the Fellowship of the church but not getting what they asked for in prayer because their hearts are not sufficiently aligned with the will of God and then there are others within the body of Christ who are intensely elide with the will of God they've they've achieved this mystical union with the will of God through a life of asceticism and contemplation and they get what they ask for because they're holy in what they ask for is perfectly in accord with the will of Jesus and that's the way in which we interpret the promise of Christ whatever you ask in my name you will receive well I'm still waiting on the Ferrari right I'm not getting that because I'm not asking for something that perfectly accords with the will of God but when I'm other Lea aligned to God in the sanctity of my heart then I will will only what He wills and then whatever asked for I will get well who is in that state permanently of only willing what God wills well it's those who have been who have been who experienced the beatific vision those who have been confirmed in charity and glory in the life of heaven their prayers are infallibly efficacious because they only ask for that which is Accord in accord with the will of God and you know when we when we venerate the saints when we ask the saints for our prayers there's one form of devotion to the saint so it's very popular in the Catholic Church today it's called the total consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the method of Saint Louie de Montfort and one of the things that Louie De Montfort urges people to do is quit worrying about your particular petitions right I mean you don't necessarily know what you need but the Blessed Virgin Mary what she wills is in complete accord with the will of God entrust yourself to her intercession grant her the dignity of dispensing your merits and prayers for whatever purpose God has in mind and such prayers are infinitely efficacious at least that's the way he elaborates it in his own private theology and that's just one one Saint one theologians opinion but I think it sort of captures the essence of what I'm trying to what I'm trying to argue here so the the reason it's useful to pray to the Saints alright why would God encourage this is precisely because Jesus wants us to cultivate a relationship of dependence upon one another in charity and in spiritual friendship it's eminently fitting and in accord with the will of God in the nature of salvation that we're not just in an atomistic individual relationship with God but that that relationship to God is mediated to us through human relationships characterized by charity and mercy and nothing exemplifies that better in the life of the body of Christ then that we depend upon one another for prayer it's a beautiful beautiful teaching of the Catholic Church I need my brothers and sisters to pray for me those that are holier that I those whose example I seek to follow and it's in this way st. Paul tells us in Ephesians 3:10 that it's through the church that God wants to make his will is reconciling will manifest to the world I no longer call you servants but friends he says because I show you everything that the father has given me alright it's spiritual friendship that he desires us to cultivate with the Saints because it's beautiful it's beautiful thank you so much sir I appreciate the call the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six I want to go now to John in Lafayette Louisiana John welcome to called a communion yes hello my question is as a Catholic I've every once in a while get into conversation with Protestants regarding the Bible you know our version versus theirs and the deuteron deuterocanonical books that were thrown out by lutheran and the following protestant so-called reformers and my question is I understand Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the septagon you know from which our Bible is based did they also quote from the the deuterocanonical books as part of that you know and because if they did then that would seem to me to really you know impact the argument okay thanks I appreciate the question the answer to the question is yes Hebrews 11:35 is an indisputable rough so second Maccabees chapter seven that's one really solid reference st. Paul seems to me it's compelling at any rate to quote in several places from the book of wisdom [Music] I believe that Revelation chapter eight verse three references are alludes to the book of Tobit in the account of Raphael's his relationship of intercessory prayer on behalf of Tobias and Sarah in England he carries their prayers before the throne of God that seems very much to be in mind in in chapter 8 of the book of Revelation where we're told that the angels bear up our prayers before God as incense and there there are other passages as well so I'm weak and you can get them in this is the kind of thing that's easily looked up online there are you know endless websites that that chart and catalogue these kinds of things so yeah they're they're plentiful references in the New Testament quotes from the deutero Canon as well as the as well as the Septuagint more broadly but let me issue one caution all right and here's my caution that the that that the the premise of that argument all right that way of reasoning is a is a more or less a Protestant way of reasoning about the nature of the Canon all right in other words the only way I can have certainty or principle way that I can have certainty about the contents of the Canon is if I can find New Testament citations of the old or I can demonstrate that Jesus you know cited this or that text and that's it that's a dead end and we'll never get certainty that way all right the the I had a debate one time it was a dinner table debate but it was a debate with a Protestant theologian who was a petrol adjust he was a real expert in the history of the early church and it was about the status of the Diderot Canon in the Christian tradition and it's no it's no secret that some of those biblical books were disputed in the early centuries and so he was trying to build a case for rejecting the deutero Canon on his extensive knowledge of certain Church Fathers that didn't regard them is fully authoritative and he went threes very erudite man and he knew his stuff quite well and he kind of went through all this this historical evidence and and I'm not a pathologist my training was in the Reformation so I sat and listened and nodded my head and accepted a lot of what he said just based on Authority and but what he got done I put this question to him I said let me ask you that's all that's a great erudition that you've given out and I appreciate it but do you regard the contents of the cannon as an article of faith he said what do you mean by an article of faith I said something that you have to believe on divine authority like the dogma of the Trinity are the two nature's of Christ something that we absolutely have to believe and he thought about it for a moment and he said well I suppose it must be right because we have to have certainty in our act of faith and I said that's that's exactly right you're correct I said if you believe that the contents of the Canon in an article of faith in the Christian religion then tell me what divine authority conveyed the contents of the Canon and then he was stuck then he was stuck all right because if nothing else I mean that not every book even of the Hebrew Canon is cited in the New Testament not even every book of the Hebrew Canon is cited in the New Testament and of course the New Testament is not cited in the New Testament right so if you start with that premise you're never going to get to a completed ganon you have to have some authority outside the Bible competent to judge this book is or is not canonical and inspired in order to have certainty in your act of faith in the contents of the Canon and that presupposes or that requires I should say the authority of the Catholic Church so apart from the authority of the Catholic Church we really cannot have any certainty at all about the contents of the Bible and remember Luther who did one throw out the deutero Canon from the Old Testament he had difficulties with the anti leguminous in the New Testament anti legume in over the disputed books of the New Testament I mean his preface to the book of James he said I won't have him in my Bible Luther was doubtful on 2nd Peter 2nd 3rd John the book of Revelation kind of squirrely on Hebrews and and and to this day there are some very traditional Lutheran theologians who are hesitant about citing the anti leguminous from the New Testament and they don't know they don't know well we know we know because the authority of the Catholic Church I appreciate the question thank you so much the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six I want to go now to milah in Newport News Virginia milah welcome to call to Communion hi sir thank you for this opportunity thank you so much for being on the show what can I do for you okay so we are like family and during the summer my I take my kids to Vacation Bible School so they they go to the Bible School that our local Catholic Church has prepared for their local kids but then I also take them to the Vacation Bible School in the other local churches like Methodist Baptist churches is that okay sir I appreciate kids enjoy them and I believe they since they're only on seven and nine years old I think they do not really um tell my kids that is establish and this is Protestant or yeah okay thank you I appreciate the question of my love very much every Vacation Bible School that I was ever engaged in as a child growing up in the of angelical in Protestant South was deeply deeply enmeshed in a theology of conversion that is a nimac 'el contrary to Catholic faith I remember one Bible school that I was involved in used to teach a little song and the song went like this it said one door and only one and yet its sides are too I'm on the inside on which side are you it was an extraordinarily sectarian position that identified Catholics with those outside and insisted that they have a evangelical conversion experience in order to encounter Christ that's a very dangerous thing to teach a seven-year-old to throw his Catholic tradition under the bus in favor of this novel of angelical conversion istic experience so I would be very hesitant about sending my kid to that kind of an institution unless I had thoroughly vetted it first anyway I appreciate the question milah Thank You Raymond Arroyo part of the success we've had on the world over I attribute to the audience my relationship with Mother Angelica and her teaching me that when you sit with someone you talk to them and you create an environment where they will tell you things they've that ease that humor that warmth she gave me that and that's what I try to impart and make a part of every interview we do on the world over the world over tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern on EWTN radio and I'm Doug Keck here on EWTN bookmark brief I just finished talking with my great friend Marcus Grodi about his new book life from our land the search for a simpler life in a complex world and Marcus could you give us a synopsis of what this book's is about Wow maybe the subtitle really puts it how do we understand Christ's radical call to simplicity often statements about denying wealth and possessions how do we live that out it doesn't necessarily mean leaving the city and going to the country getting a farm no not necessarily because you might find that's not a simple life at all but but the books about is what Marilyn and I did learn learn and my children from our time in the rural life about living a more to taxes simple life in obedience to Christ and then trying to figure out how we can pass it on to her okay very good thank you so much Marcus look for Marcus grones interview about his book life from our land the search for us of their life in a complex world that's available to be dipped in religious catalogue thank you for joining us on this EWTN bookmark brief a lot of people listen to Catholic radio and get great information to help build their faith and support their faith but there are also people out there who haven't yet built a relationship with God and Catholic radio reaches them wherever they are it evangelizes in a way like no other medium and that's just one of the many reasons why Catholic radio is so important Jimmy akin thinks Catholic radio is important so should you what's stopping you from becoming a Catholic this is called to communion with dr. David Angelus one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six welcome back to call to communion I'm your host David Anders the number to be on call to communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six if you're outside the US and Canada dial one two zero five two seven one two nine eight five you can text EWTN to five five zero zero zero text your first name and message message and data rates may apply the main line again is 1-800-585-9396 the reason the reason that we can be held accountable is that we can we can freely deliberate and choose between right and wrong that's what makes us accountable alright the less clarity of vision we have about the difference between right and wrong the less basis we have to rationally discriminate right from wrong and the less culpable we are is it possible to be so ignorant about your moral duty that you're your moral culpability vanishes altogether yes that is theoretically possible it's called invincible ignorance and it is theoretically possible that people can be invincibly ignorant now is every ignorant invincible is everyone who is ignorant of a moral truth not culpable for for violations of that no no because there's such a thing as the simple or culpable ignorance when there's a moral question and it is within your power to discern the right answer and you recognize that it is a dilemma and that there must be a right answer and you know that you could figure it out but you don't avail yourself of that opportunity because you're trying to basically provide cover for your conscience well that obviously that's that's the kind of ignorance that's not that's not going to be excused now I think there there are some I won't go so far as to say that that there are no sends excuse me let me start over presumably almost any Sun a person could be invincibly ignorant of but the the the more deeply the Sun touches the nature or the heart of human dignity the harder in harder I think it is to claim invincible ignorance so for instance you know if you take a crime like murder in cold blood it it's going to become very very difficult for somebody to claim invincible ignorance because the capacity for empathy is something that is so deeply biologically ingrained in our neurology I mean the mirror neuron system in the brain people have a capacity to literally feel you know overtones of other people's pain the capacity for empathy and to recognize the humanity of another is something that's so deeply ingrained in our biology and and of course the the inclination for self-preservation is probably the strongest inclination that we have so the the capacity to recognize that I am denying somebody else or violating their their right to self-preservation through my active murder is it impossible could someone be invisibly ignorant of that of that duty well you know possibly but I'm gonna be skeptical of that claim except under extraordinary circumstances but fortunately you and I don't have to make that judgment we're not the ones that judge whether somebody was Vince ibly or invincibly ignorant we leave that judgment up to God but if you yourself feel like you're in the situation of a head did this bad thing but I really believe that I was operating with in ignorance and I you know and I I just really didn't know better well of course God's gonna take that into consideration but in any event it can all be forgiven so thank you so much appreciate the call Joe all right the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six I want to go now to Delores Delores is in Denver Colorado Delores welcome to call the comedian thank you hello hi hi I have a question about full-immersion baptism as Protestants believe in it I have a friend who I had asked her to come with me to a Bible class at my church and I thought it was pretty safe it was the Bible but she said she couldn't go with me because we had difference of opinion about faith and and the one thing she cited was that they believed or she believed in full immersion the baptism in order to be saved and not just a little sprinkling on water she said meaning Catholics how we conduct baptism so I told her that and I was sort of going out on a little bit of a limb because I don't know the whole Bible but I said that it didn't say anywhere in the Bible that it had to be full immersion baptism or by token that it had to be sprinkling either and so the next day by accident I just found Ezekiel 35 verse 25 or it says I will sprinkle clean water on you to make you clean and I thought she used the word sprinkle and here it is people sprinkle clean water to make us clean can I use that for her but what else can I say I mean I know I went back and reread everything about the baptism after I mean Jesus went into the Jordan says he came up so he must have been down in the water John the Baptist baptized people getting into the Jordan River you know name and had to go into the water the eunuch had to go down into the water so I think that's maybe where they get it okay thanks Dolores I really appreciate the question I'm really impressed that you came up with Ezekiel 35 that's a great text I love that yes I'd absolutely use that and you've already covered a lot of the ground that you need to cover the most important point is that the the rubrics the rules governing the validity of baptism are not articulated in the Bible and there's not a single passage of Scripture that tells us what the mode of baptism ought to be and all of the passes that passages that you mentioned about going down none of them none of them suggest or demand that the one to be baptized you know douve under that doesn't say anything of the sort and and in fact the iconographic evidence from the early church displays the Baptist baptizing Christ for instance kneeling or standing in the water or squatting and pouring water over his head so the the evidence that we have the contemporaneous evidence from the early church doesn't suggest full immersion but pouring or sprinkling even while standing immersed partially in water and in fact when you look at the archaeological evidence of the early churches you'll find that the the baptistry is even that when they were designed to be climbed in we're not always big enough to be submerged submerged in so there's just no good reason to conclude from Scripture or from history that that baptism by immersion is necessary but you know there's another thing we can do as well and that is that we need to challenge the underlying premise all right and so let's say your friend comes back and tries to make a biblical argument for immersion alright and admitting that the biblical argument is going to be weak well what's wrong with that all right well it's the premise that we have to derive our rules for baptism or the liturgy or whatever else what other aspect of Christian life we might be considering from the text of Scripture as if as if Jesus intended the Bible to be the the kind of authoritative manual on liturgical practice but Jesus never says that the Bible is the authoritative manual on liturgical practice or any other aspect of Christian faith in fact Christ never anticipates the formation of the of the biblical canon at all he never mentions it and in all of his ministry he never instructs the Apostles hey I'm going to deliver you 66 books that Protestants recognize if you have a question about the Christian faith make sure you go exegete these texts and try to figure out the hard passages you know using a Greek lexicon and then whatever you decide well if you can come to consensus and you know publish a few academic articles on it that must be what the Christian faith is Jesus never says that and that's actually the way a lot of evan Jellicle theology happens as a bunch of scholars get together pull out the Greek texts try to figure out what was going on and then you know what they conclude or find consensus about that must be the contents of Christian faith but Jesus gave us a different rule of faith what in the Bible alone and it certainly wasn't the Magisterium of scholars it was a teaching authority at the church to him he said teach everything that I've commanded you and I'll be with you to the end of the age which you bind on earth is bound in heaven what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven unfortunately for us not only do we have the Bible we have sacred tradition and the teaching authority of the church which is declared to us by dogmatic fact the baptism does not have to be by immersion it just has to be water running over the head in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit so we can rest assured on the authorities that Christ gives us to convey the faith thank you so much I appreciate the call the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six I want to go now to Troy driving through Oklahoma Troy welcome to call to Communion hi dr. Anders good to talk to you thank you so much good to talk to you too well I'd like to preface my question with this many times we talk with Protestants and I'm a Catholic we find ourselves kind of talking past each other because we use similar vocabulary but the words seem to have different meanings that's right there's the classic are you state and most Catholics will answer that question with a strange look on their face because they don't know how to answer it and that's of course used as justification well you're not saved because you don't know that you are so my question is another word that seems to be problematic is the word great and how catless understand grace how would you approach talking to a Protestant and the particularly an evangelical when there was a discussion that was that I was pretty to where somebody was criticizing Catholics because we talk about grace is imparted through sacraments and the criticism was that we'll let's blame that Christ's hands out his grace piecemeal you know a little bit here a little bit there and that they receive all the grace when they're when they when they quote get faith so how would you how would you approach a discussion like that about God's grace and how is it party thank you so much I really appreciate it so first of all I think I think you've hit on something very important in ecumenical dialogue or discussions about religion and and that is that this that often we approach the same set of questions from in commensurate theological systems in which we invest our vocabulary with irreconcilable notions and then we just argue past each other and our you know bang the table and think we've won the argument when we fail to communicate entirely and I think the way to get to get beyond that is to do what you have done which is to draw explicit attention to that fact and to drive down as much as possible to first principles in theological discussions so and you've probably heard me do this on the air when people call up and will challenge me with something like can you show me where purgatory is in the Bible I usually will respond with something like yes but why should I like what's at stake if I don't and what if I admitted to you that purgatory was not in the Bible which is not true it is in the Bible but what if I said it wasn't how would that threaten the doctrine of purgatory because he is a Catholic I would be completely unthreatened by the idea that some dogma was not present in the text of your Bible it's just not a threat to me at all because I don't think that's the way I'm supposed to construe the Christian faith and when you when you come back with an answer like that usually the head spins around a few times because it's never occurred to them there's any other way of construing the Christian faith so you have to just kind of bring it to conscious attention now when it comes to the question of the dispensation of God's grace again they're reading the language of grace in a very idiosyncratic way they're basically reading the language of grace through the mind of Martin Luther and you need to draw that out explicitly to their attention you need to say well look you know Luther had a very idiosyncratic reading of st. Paul you know Luther's tower experience if you will when he he claims to have discovered quote-unquote the doctrine of free justification occurred something alarm to the year 1519 and and and he is conscious of doing so think innovative at the time right and it's clearly breaking precedent with his immediate tradition but Protestant scholarship Protestant scholarship Protestant scholarship confirms that Luther's quote unquote insight was was a radical break not just with his own immediate past but with 1500 years of Christian tradition throughout the world in fact the the the Protestant historian Alister McGrath and his two-volume book on the history of justification it freely admits that Luther's understanding of the nature of grace and salvation was a complete theological novelty never before seen in the history of the Christian Church and you know and that's this plentiful historical evidence man I come alike Krister stunned all another Lutheran scholar was a biblical scholar at Harvard University in the 60s and 70s has made very similar arguments about Luther's miss reading of st. Paul in early Christian history so I would point out to them so first of all you're reading this through the lens of somebody who brings a very idiosyncratic position all right and and and again they're not cognizant of this you have to draw it to their attention Luther as he read the Bible because he recognized that the way he read st. Paul was difficult alright it created difficulties for him theologically for one thing it did not accord with the rest of the Bible very well because Luther wanted to argue that the life of grace is something over a part from separate from the life of morality or ethical behavior and the two things are maybe they're they're fundamentally disconnected and the difficulty that you have with that thesis is that about 98 percent of the Bible is pretty straightforward ethic I mean just pretty straightforward moral exhortation and the teaching of Jesus himself I mean is this just shot through with moralism we bless it all the pure in heart blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness blessed are those who are peacemakers and so forth Jesus's teaching is inescapably ethical and and so the way Luther read st. Paul calls all that into question now Luther recognized this he recognized this and he said he does an astonishing thing and his preface to the New Testament Martin Luther's preface to the New Testament he actually admits that you cannot learn the quote-unquote gospel and that is to say the way Luther understands it just by reading the teaching of the words of the deeds of Jesus now that's an astonished admission on his part Luther admits a forthrightly that the objective teaching of Christ does not convey what he Luther wants to convey about the Christian faith you have to read Jesus Luther says through a very particular interpretive paradigm and then Luther hands you out that paradigm and it's his alleged dichotomy between between law and grace which becomes for him more than just conceptual categories to interpret st. Paul but I but a hermeneutical system to interpret the entire Bible and in doing that he's imported onto his reading of the Bible something that's just so radically discontinuous with Christian tradition in order in order to accommodate Jesus because Jesus doesn't seem to fit in Luther's theological paradigm the teaching of Jesus is far into Luther's to Luther's program and he's got to find a way to domesticate Christ and work him back into this very idiosyncratic reading of st. Paul now I mean these are heady theological concepts right but I think this is the way you do it I think you go at it through the through the historical theology you go at it through critical exegesis you go at it philosophically by drawing attention to these paradigmatic differences and and and you don't accept the conversation on their terms all right you question those terms now in terms of the actual teaching on grace st. Peter tells us in 2nd Peter 1:4 that we become participants in the divine nature all right now that is a sublime doctrine of Grace and st. Paul elaborates in numerous places that this participation in the divine nature is something that is progressive and is fulfilled in the perfect union with God in charity in a coming to acquire the likeness of Christ and a paradigm text would be second Corinthians 3 where st. Paul says we now I'm trying to murmur the exact phraseology basically says gazing on the glory of the Lord we are made like him progressively and all of this comes from the spirit all right so it's a doctrine of mystical participation mysticism of the three ages of the interior life you begin in infancy and then by contemplative prayer you grow ever more into the likeness of Christ until we have the mind of alright and this is what it begins in this participation alike of Grace and a creative manner through baptism and it's continued through the life of asceticism as we seek continually seek to acquire that purity of heart without which no man will see God I've run a little bit long and it's a great topic so I need to move on to something else but I really appreciate it sure I'd love to talk about it more if you would call back all right I need to read an advertisement for the EWTN religious catalogue Our Lady of Fatima with children metal alright beautifully detailed sterling silver medal now available at the EWTN religious catalogue depicts the apparition of Our Lady of the Rosary to the three Shepherd children in 1917 the medal is arched and has the words Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima inscribed along the top it comes on a 20 inch I don't even know what this pedal is rhodium plated chain with a clasp available now at the ewtn our si.com so get your rosary metal from their religious catalogue thank you all right the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six we have some questions from youtube now the first one is from Nate Nate writes and says if I'm Catholic and I have the love of God shed abroad in my heart is the expectation that I am actually able to perfectly fulfill the law thanks Nate I really appreciate the question so yes actually and the Council of Trent teaches us in session six section 16 that the man who has grace has fully met the demands of the law has fully met the demands of the law namely to love God and love neighbor so that the baby who dies two seconds after baptism merits eternal life all right and if you're in the state of grace you merit eternal life what you have to do to obtain eternal life you have to fulfill the law what is the law of demand the love of God and love of neighbor so anyone who's in the state of grace has in virtue of that state of grace fulfilled belong st. Paul tells us in Romans eight three and four that if we have the spirit and walk in the spirit the demands of the law are fully met in us so yes we do now that doesn't mean that if we have grace that that we have yet been made absolute perfect in charity all right we have charity sufficient to have obeyed the law all right but we can grow in that charity to absolute perfection and we can align our will more and more with the will of God and there are degrees of charity you see not all I mean there's there's there's there's greater charity and lesser charity and it is the it is the lot of the Saints to grow in that charity until there's a perfect alignment between their will and the will of God and they desire no untoward thing whatsoever at all and don't even commit venial sins now we're not that we're not at that place when we leave the baptismal font that's our alternate destiny and that's what we're shooting for appreciate the question Nate all right another YouTube question well I'm getting to that just remind you the number to be on call to Communion is one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six one eight hundred five eight five nine three nine six this one is from Lilliana also on this one's on Facebook and she says is the same theology about the Immaculate Conception is it the same theology about the Immaculate Conception between the Roman Catholic Church in the Eastern Orthodox Church thanks so much Liliana no it's not the same and principally because the Eastern Orthodox don't have a doctrine of original sin and so the way Catholics articulate their belief about the Immaculate Conception is that the Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved from every stain of original sin from the moment of her conception well if you're either Eastern Orthodox you don't think there is such a thing as original sin so there's nothing you know there with from with - from which to preserve the boss at Virgin Mary so they object to that formulation of the doctrine now let's frame it this way did the Eastern Orthodox believe that Mary sons absolutely not they think that she's the all pure one she's completely holy all right there's no stain our spot or wrinkle in her whatsoever at all so you know from my way of looking at it and if you actually look at what do they think about the the quality of her spiritual and moral life compared to how the Roman Catholics understand it I think that's just about identical it's just they object to the doctrine that she'd be preserved from something that they don't think exists I hope that helps you alright my computer's a little bit squirrely here Mike do we have to hold okay I can't see the names Tony okay thanks so we're gonna go to Tony driving through New Hampshire Tony welcome to call to Communion thanks thanks for taking my call thanks for our I've got a question I've got some acquaintances who are fundamentalist evangelicals and they pretty much take everything in the Bible as a literal okay including the story of Genesis including the story of Noah and I haven't get it to them but I think you know those things my understanding is they are of by Catholic teaching allegorical to some extent they counter that by saying well Jesus said at the end times will be like in the days of Noah so it had to be real it had actually happened otherwise would be saying in the end times would be like in the days of the Easter Bunny or in the days of Santa Claus what is your position on that yeah thanks I really appreciate the question and I it seems to me that their argument is a non sequitur so I mean the if I appeal let's just let's just bracket for a second the question of the literal truth of the Noah story okay and and ask could I make an intelligible argument about human behavior analogizing to a novel of course I could you know I'm a big fan of novels and I and I reference them a lot in my speech and I'll say hey do you remember that place in The Chronicles of Narnia where Aslan says bla bla bla bla bla well it's just like that I mean that to me that's a perfectly sensible position to take that just because I reference a story to make an illustrative point it's not necessary that I take the story itself quite literally alright now let's talk about the the deeper question about whether or not the scripture contains allegories figures and symbols all right that are not meant to be read in a strictly literal way well that's patently obvious from the New Testament because this is exactly how st. Paul exegetes the Old Testament I'm thinking about a passage like first Corinthians 10 when Saint Paul says of the Israelites when they were traveling through the desert and he references the event of drinking the water that pours forth from the rock and he says they ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink and they drank from the same rock and that rock was crying well Jesus is not a rock all right but clearly here hes allegorize the account of the Israelites in the desert or when he talks about Hagar and Sarah as being two mountains all right standing for the children of Abraham by faith and the children of Abraham according to the flesh well I mean the text itself says nothing of the sort I mean Paul's gone to the literal text and he's derived a spiritual interpretation it's not at all obvious from the literal reading and there are plentiful other passages as well we could derive the same conclusion well that's a fascinating question I wish we had more time to go into it but you hear the music we don't the show is called to communion we hear Monday through Friday at 2 p.m. Eastern on EWTN global Catholic Radio Network taking your calls about the Catholic faith I'm your host David Andrews my facilitator Tom price good friend is off on a high school reunion many decades deep I think high school reunion in Missouri he'll be back with us on the show on Monday so y'all pray for Tom that he has safe travel and everybody have a great weekend pray for us we'll pray for you and we'll see you Monday thank you so much [Music] [Music]

Channel: EWTN

Views: 1,724

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television

Id: d_ukH4DNOtE

Length: 54min 49sec (3289 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 13 2017