CALLED TO COMMUNION - Dr. David Anders - July 8, 2020

um I'm Teresa Tomeo and called to communion with dr. David Anders starts now what's stopping you from becoming a Catholic why can't women become priests one eighty three three two eight eight EWTN I don't understand why I have to earn salvation one eighty three three two eight eight three nine eight six why do I need to confess my sins to a pre what's stopping you this is called to communion with dr. David Anders on the EWTN global Catholic radio network everybody welcome again to called a communion here on EWTN radio it's the program for our non Catholic brothers and sisters those of you who have questions about the Catholic faith consider us a resource to help you get those questions answered here's our phone number if you have a question about the Catholic faith especially to all of our non Catholic listeners what is keeping you from becoming a Catholic here's our phone number eight three three two eight eight EWTN that's eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six if you're listening outside of North America please dial the u.s. country code and then two O five two seven one two nine eight five you can also text the letters EWTN to five five zero zero zero wait for our response and then text us your first name and your brief question message and data rates may apply and of course of course you can send us an email 24/7 CTC at ewtn.com CTC at ewtn.com Charles Barry our producer we also have rich Jesse as our celebrity phone screener again today and Jeff Burton is on social media he'll be glad to pass on any questions you may want to oppose via youtube or facebook he'll post those to us right here in studio one i'm tom price along with dr. David Anders why Tom how are you today well I'm good how's that tea you poured yourself a nice cup of tea earlier I'm a big green tea guy you are so it's good for you green tea good stuff antioxidants there you go we're gonna lead off here with an email from Thomas who says because of call to Communion I've very interested in the early church to try to really discern the origins and content of Christian teachings so could you please succinctly address this question why in the book of Acts which documents the spread of Christianity for the first 30 years or so after Christ's ascension why there is absolutely no mention of Peter as head of the church and that he would be followed by his successors no mention of purgatory no mention of reparation no specific statement of Christ being present in the breaking of the bread and no mention of prayers to Saints or the holiness of Mary these all seem to be important Catholic doctrines but as the church was forming and spreading throughout the known world there are exactly zero references to any of these dogmas doesn't that imply that they came along much later and were essentially manmade as opposed to inspired tradition thanks Thomas okay thanks I appreciate the question so what what is the book of Acts about what is st. Luke tell us that he that he wants to do in in writing this text right and and for that matter you could you could raise similar questions about Luke's Gospel why does the Gospel of Luke not tell us everything that we find in say the Gospel according to st. John or Saint Matthew it doesn't it doesn't at all Luke has a distinct theological agenda he's got something he wants to communicate in his gospel that's not the same thing that Matthew or John or Mark want to communicate in theirs and Luke Luke tells the story of the advance of the faith from Jerusalem into the Gentile world that that's the story that he's telling so really the hinge on which the book turns is the Council of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15 and that's that's the hinge on which an awful lot of Saint Paul's letters turns as well and so you know it's difficult I think for modern Christians to appreciate what it must have meant in the minds of first century Jews for st. Paul to get up in a synagogue and teach that Gentiles can also be considered heirs of the covenant with Abraham even though they don't have to circumcise their children hmm now if you want to if you really want to know like what what in in Paul's mind what was the just earth-shattering groundbreaking world ending apocalyptic realization of the Incarnation it was that Gentiles are included in the covenant this was this was this was the news this is the thing that's a big ho-hum for most people today quite honestly we take for granted I mean I'm Jim tell John prices just tell her you're probably a Gentile I don't know but maybe you are and it doesn't even occur to you that that would be a question of such intense spiritual moment but this this was the question Paul says this was the secret held throughout all generations now revealed to Christ's holy prophets and apostles my point is that that context and and what what is considered sort of spiritually salient is to a large extent culturally conditioned and that's not to make the doctrines of the faith in any way artificial it's just to explain how and when and why they are articulated in precisely the way that they are all right when you get into the second century and you can begin to see this this is hinted at in the New Testament a big question is was Jesus Christ really human that's a big issue in in say the the ja9 correspondence for a second and third John we find a little bit of it in there and it becomes the origins of docetism 2nd century heresy that Jesus only seemed to be human it wasn't really a human being again not a big issue for most people today no huge issue in the second century and it's in that context that theologians like Irenaeus of Lyon begin to reflect much more intensely on the significance of the virgin birth and the humanity the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary and he expounds on what st. Luke and Saint Matthew tell us about her maternity but he turns it to a new question namely what does this tell us about the true humanity of Jesus different set of theological questions give him an opportunity to explore different aspects of the Gospel message that's how dogmas develop okay well we thank you so much for your email Thomas so we do appreciate that by the way if you want to send us an email as we mentioned earlier you can do that anytime ctc at ewtn.com CTC at ewtn.com we try to answer at least one email sometimes two or three depending on how the show flows when whenever we're doing a live show which is most days of course Monday through Friday at 2:00 p.m. Eastern but we also do a whole bunch of emails whenever we do one of those fabulous mailbag programs so sooner or later we're going to get to your email just give us a minute or two in a moment we're gonna get to the phones if you have a question for dr. David Andrews would love to hear from you at eight three three two eight eight EWTN that's eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six what's keeping you from becoming a Catholic love to hear from you today on call to communion here on EWTN stay with us the best way to pray is simply to open our minds and our hearts to God to allow his presence to begin to fill us to restore us to refresh us to make us new the best way to pray is simply to be aware of that presence and just say yes to it to give Fiat to that presence as our Blessed lady did in that way we delight in prayer and God Himself delights in us [Music] the leading Catholic voices are on EWTN radio we've started doing these shows call in if you're an atheist calling if you want to redefine marriage those are the kind of shows that make very engaging radio we're gonna continue to try to reach out to the fringes and find those people who fundamentally disagree with us and we're gonna continue to create shows they're gonna reach out to those people to draw them in to the fullness of the truth Catholic Answers live tonight 6:00 Eastern on EWTN radio now here comes another thought from mother Angelica's perpetual calendar we cannot put off a change of life for tomorrow or old age for there may be no tomorrow mother Angelica's perpetual calendar features an inspirational message for each day of the year it's available from the EWTN religious catalogue at ewtn our si.com that's ewtn RC [Music] hey tomorrow morning here on EWTN radio be sure to join us for the sunrise morning show at 6 a.m. Eastern Annie Mitchell Matt Swain will be discussing st. Cuthbert Maine and the Forty Martyrs of England and Wales well who were the Forty Martyrs of England and Wales you might be surprised check out the program it's a winner sunrise morning show tomorrow morning 6 a.m. Eastern right here on EWTN radio we gotta get to the phones in just a moment here at 8 3 3 2 8 8 EWTN quick question here from Joe in Gaylord Michigan he says doctor Andrews if the angels were created with so much more knowledge than us and realized that their sin would lead to eternal damnation and they did not have access to the Sacrament of Penance like we do why would they sin did they see God as he is and still sinned or were they not yet granted to see God until they were tested thanks Joe in Michigan yeah thanks to appreciate the question at the creation the angels did not have the beatific vision they did not have the beatific vision if they'd had the beatific vision they would not have been able to send hmm right so they they're more intelligent than we are but looking intelligence is is not correlated to moral purity okay and there it is appreciate that Joe thank you for writing to us here at EWTN if you're ready now let's go to the phones at eight three three two eight eight EWTN we're going to begin this time with Robert and Cincinnati listening on the great Sacred Heart Radio hey there Robert what's on your mind today I've been thinking about the importance of forgiveness in Christianity and I know that the crucifixion of Christ was for forgiveness of all sin I was thinking if God and Jesus had not forgiven people for crucifying Jesus what would have happened then would Jesus have been cursed by his humanity okay thank you Christian Isaac resident Rick yeah I appreciate the question so of course the the the reconciliation of sinners is not an instrumental cause of the resurrection of Jesus and that that seems to be what your question implies somehow the fact of sinners being reconciled was itself instrumentally causative of Christ's resurrection and that's not God the divine power is the efficient cause of Christ's resurrection is God willing Christ willing to rise from the dead now but let me reframe your question this way the the passion of our Lord is death and resurrection is for the reconciliation of sinners I mean that's why he died on the cross was to reconcile sinners God he didn't die you know to just have a kind of firework show but for a specific purpose namely to reconcile sinners and there were there was a speculative question in medieval theology is speculative his contrary to fact right just let's play around and see what we can come up with some theologians asked this question they said well what if Adam and Eve had not sinned what if humanity had not fallen well would Jesus have become incarnate right do you know sinners to reconcile but that's not the only good we've received from there from the Incarnation that's the biggie that's the biggie but we also receive the great good of having the Incarnate Lord having God in the flesh with us Christ God with us in in a way that we can taste and touch and handle and see so there might that might have been good to realize even if there were no sinners to reconcile and and there was a substantial number of theologians particularly John Duns Scotus famous Catholic theologian oh yes Middle Ages who took the opinion that Christ would would have become incarnate even if there had been no sin now on the other hand st. Thomas Aquinas said uh nope Revelation tells us that he became incarnate for our salvation that's why he was incarnate that's why you know God predestined him for this passion this death and resurrection to say and we have no other information about this maybe this is not something God had to do some God freely chose that he wasn't compelled to do it and we can't speculate beyond what he's real and what he's revealed as it was for the sake of the salvation of sinners okay Robert does that help you I'm trying to relate it to forgiveness any any thoughts there about forgiveness well I think I understand Roberts question he's asking would Christ have been raised from the dead if God had not in fact reconciled sinners but that the reason that Christ was raised for the debt from the dead was so God would reconcile sinners right right right and so so that there would not have been a purpose for Christ's death and resurrection but the reconciliation of sinners okay there we go Robert a great question thank you so much for it that opens up a line for you right now at eight three three two eight eight EWTN that's eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six we have several lines open right now great time for you to get your call in we want to help you out on your faith journey because it's different for everybody but we want the best for everybody and God's kingdom is the best all right let's go now to Ashley in Sioux City Iowa listening on Iowa Catholic radio actually what's on your mind today hi yes I had a question Kevin a form of analogy I guess is just kind of speaking on my behalf of my sister you're both raised Catholic and she has this trying out being a Lutheran right now and I'm trying to get her to come back so I was just thinking about this that if Jesus were to have chosen a diamond for his brides to the church he would have considered as jewelers do the cut the color the clarity and he would have chosen the best one and I feel like my sister has chosen kind of a knockoff branded you know is she satisfied with what that is and I guess I get I get frustrated with with that but just kind of to bring her back to the Catholic Church and I think that she feels like you know that it's just as good and you know it cost less that she just has to have faith and she'll go to heaven and my parents seem to be okay with it that they say well something's better than nothing and would rather her do that than be a non-practicing Catholic okay yeah thanks I appreciate the question well the the reason that most people give for leaving the Catholic Church if you if you interviewed and you poll them as they will tell you that they did not feel that their spiritual needs were being met as Catholics now the way I interpret that is that they didn't know how to make sense of the faith in their life they didn't know how to take what they had received as Catholics and apply it appropriated into their spirituality in a way that they could tell made a difference and so that's that's that can be for any number of reasons it could be for some people it could be a matter of relationships and I really think that's the case for many many people that they may have attended Catholic Mass but they didn't have good spiritual friendships in the Catholic Church and then someone befriends them from another Communion and and then draws them in and and what people people will believe anything right for friends I mean they really will and they'll swallow all kinds of of all kinds of whales right you know for the sake of friendship and justified in their own mom yeah right and so the relational thing is huge for a lot of people sometimes people don't really understand the faith and I have a good intellectual understanding of the faith and the first time they encounter someone that challenges them on their Catholic faith attempts to poke holes in it and gives them a persuasive alternative they are ill they're not equipped to respond to that I mean I before I was Catholic this true story I once was taking a preparatory class for the GRE Graduate Record exam and on a break between instructional times I'd like 15 min set the Coke machine I met a Catholic woman and persuaded her to leave the church oh wow in like 15 minutes flat all right thanks and uh and because I knew the Bible backwards and forwards and she didn't you know she didn't know the Bible from Adams housecat mm-hmm and I just had her you know twisted around in circles i manipulated her and i'm very sorry that I did that I repent right but that's not uncommon right Catholics that are just ill-equipped to deal with challenges to the faith and and we really have to kind of address both those the the human side and the spiritual side the subjective component and then the objective intellectual teaching about the church and the way your sister seems to be addressing the question is it's sort of utilitarian yeah well this works for me I you know this works for me I I I get good feelings out of this and you know we have to push back a little bit against that reasoning right that is that the is that is that the only criteria or is that the best criteria that I could bring to bear to determine the truth of religious faith now when it comes to the question of the Christian religion specifically there's this thing called Jesus and he had some very concrete things to say about salvation and the Christian faith things that were explicitly contradicted by Martin Luther and by the Lutheran confession things like you have to actually do good works to be saved and that's about the only thing Jesus ever said he enumerates them over the course of his career he tells us over and over and over again these are the things that you have to do mm-hmm and and the whole the Lutheran tradition is predicated on reinterpreting all of the words of Jesus to have him mean something that he didn't actually say as a problem that's a difficulty and so you know I I think you know some apologetic illiterate on on Lutheranism from a Catholic point of view would be helpful but also not collecting the element of real human relationship and it's gonna be difficult to argue somebody back in if the reasons for leaving are not argumentative sure sure actually thank you so much for your call I'm thinking David of a famous person in media I won't mention his name but at one point he was he was like at the at the bottom of his career he was a heavy drinker and there was only but but he had a friend who was the one person that did not desert him and eventually this fellow turned his life around gravitated to his friends church which was the Mormon Church yep and that's you know that it's the old story are you you know are you are you my friend or you know I'm struggling here so we're all called to be that that that good Christian that the people need well Pope Francis has has made much of the need to accompany people in their faith mm-hmm right not not just to evangelize them with words but to come by and actually befriend them accompaniment live the faith with them and you know Pope Benedict and his encyclical on faith talks about faith being the ability to see the world through Christ's eyes which is which is seeing broken wounded people who need love sure called a communion on this Wednesday afternoon here on EWTN we have a line available for you at eight three three two eight eight EWTN if you have a question for dr. David Anders eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six Cesar is watching us on YouTube right now hey Cesar he says previously you have mentioned a book about the beatific vision and you said it was the best one you came across could you please give again the title and author yes the book is life everlasting by Reginald Gary GU Lagrange life everlasting Reginald Gary gula groans okay should be easily findable out there called a communion here on EWTN email here from Christopher and this is a one line question but it might take a little while to unpack dr. Andrews is the mind a component of the body for the soul yes yes I knew I knew you were gonna say that right so so you know that here's the problem with the way you framed the question right that that in in traditional Catholic theology the the operating category here is sold not mind mm-hmm all right mind is really kind of a modern philosophical concept but Catholic theology really follows the Hellenistic tradition here and says when we look at a human person which I figure out what humans are and what they do the most obvious thing about humans in comparison to other entities in the universe is that they are alive now there are other things we can specify about them but that they're alive sets them apart from rocks and constellations and you know things like that and and the word soul in Catholic theology and tradition means whatever it is about the human person that makes them to be alive all right that's what the word means and what distinguishes say a human soul from other kinds of living things other other other Souls would be the characteristic operations of a human person now some of the things that are characteristic of human operation also characterize other sentient creatures all right so so you know vegetative powers like you know growth and nutrition and reproduction and so forth characterized both ferns and humans there are there are operations that are more characteristic of say mammals but then there are some operations that are characteristic only of humans or sort of pre-eminently of humans namely rationality and when we begin to kind of try to unpack what are the nature of those operations how should we conceptualize them we see that some of them are purely material some of them are purely material sensation is purely material now sensation would fall within the the orbit of what would be considered men whole operations you know the mind in other words but other operations are immaterial like abstractive reasoning and intentionality and but there's also our operations of the soul and so there is both a material and an immaterial aspect to the operation of the human soul okay well there you go what a great question Christopher thank you so much for it in a moment we'll get back to the phones and talk with Michelle in Omaha listening to us on spirit Catholic radio there's a line available for you as well at eight three three two eight eight EWTN that's eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six and what's keeping you from becoming a Catholic we would love to know called a communion here on this Wednesday afternoon on EWTN stay with us dr. Scott Hahn Jesus gave us the most perfect of prayers it's always prayed by the Catholic Church after the consecration and right before communion but always there at the climax of the mass the leading Catholic voices are on EWTN radio 60 on 10 with Monsignor Charles Pope the second commandment you shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain the disclosure of a name in the ancient world belong to the order of trust and intimacy and so when God revealed his name to Moses it was an extraordinary outreach to us saying that we were called to an intimate trusting relationship with him and so we should always reverence this name is a great gift we should obviously never use God's name to curse her to blaspheme or to berate others God's name is meant to bring blessing likewise the vain use vain means empty so some of these expressions like oh my god or you know and so on I need to be avoided as well the vain means empty and those are using God's name as an empty kind of expression of exasperation and then finally never ever to use God's name to swear an oath falsely God is the God of truth the second commandment you shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain for more about the Ten Commandments visit ewtn our c-calm he is honored by the church as one of the greatest enemies of clergy sexual abuse Matthew Benson of the church in his time st. Peter Damian fought against the many vices of contemporary clergy especially sexual abuses among the clergy in 1051 he wrote the book of Gomorrah that is still considered essential reading for fighting abuse today he died in 1070 - for more about the doctors of the church visit doctors of the church calm I'm Jerry Asher and I'm Debby George eonni join us for take two with Jerry and Debbie at noon eastern with an encore at midnight Eastern now back to more of call to Communion it's called a communion on this Wednesday afternoon Tom price here along with dr. David Andrews answering your questions at eight three three two eight eight EWTN that's eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six here is Michelle in Omaha listening on the Great Spirit Catholic radio hey Michelle what's on your mind today I have a question about our religion I know if Catholics we go to confession to admit our sins and then the priest blesses us and says that our sins are no more and and God forgets them but when we go to die we do we just Jesus God let us see our lives as we lived and the hurt and things that we did come to light how he sees us but then we go to purgatory so how does that work if our sins have been forgiven yeah thanks Michelle I really appreciate the question so let me let me give you an analogy all right so I'm a parent I have five kids and if one of my kids actually none of my kids played baseball but let's assume they did for the sake of the illustration my kid comes in the house with the baseball and I say do not throw that baseball in the house you are liable to break a window and I walk out then a few seconds later I hear crash and I walk in in there's broken glass everywhere and the kid sits there with lip quivering and glass shards all around his feet and he says to me daddy I am really sorry what am I gonna do I am gonna say it is okay I absolutely forgive you or at least if I'm a good father that's what I do I said I forgive you and what does that mean when I tell him he's forgiven it means that we're reconciled we love each other where where it went Union this has not shattered our feeli ol paternal relationship we are we're good then I hand I believe him when he says he's sorry I believe him then I hand him the dustpan and the broom and I say all right you're forgiven I love you we're reconciled it's all good but the right thing for you to do is to clean up the mosque so here go go start sweeping going clean it up if you need some help you know call your brother I'll give you an indulgence but but you know but you go do your best go clean it up throw the glass away and we won't talk about it anymore and next time you're not gonna do this that's what penance is that's exactly what penance is penance in purgatory are the same thing penance that we can say in this life or purgatory we can do the next or both penitential mm-hmm we said when we said we we alienate ourselves from God we're at enmity with him we turn our backs on him he doesn't turn his back on us we turn our backs on him when we go to confession when we're absolved we're being reconciled to God God says it's all good I forgive you I love you we're friends again I ain't holding it against you but you know what because because I love you and because I respect you as a moral agent here is the dustpan and the brim go do your best to clean up your mess not as a condition of forgiveness really as an expression of our reconciliation because this is the right thing for you for your dignity as a moral agent that's the way forgiveness and penance works in the Catholic in the Catholic faith okay hope that's helpful for you Michelle thank you so much for your call it is called a communion here on EWTN our phone number eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six question here from Johanna in France dr. Anders she says dear dr. Anders a friend of mine in Tunisia who I understand to be an atheist or perhaps an agnostic recently posted some questions on Facebook I hope that you might be able to give him an answer and now this was actually in French but Joanna has translated it so here are the three questions and the person writing it says no hidden agenda here God is generous he had a bunch of fruit trees in Eden but nevertheless had a hissy fit because Adam and Eve stole an Apple or God is forgiveness yet Adam and Eve were forever banned from Eden for a single sin God is just yet billions of humans are condemned because the fault of the first two any thoughts from my friend thanks Johanna in France yeah thanks I really appreciate the question okay so first of all the first two questions that really are about the the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden mm-hmm you must understand that that the the story of the Garden of Eden and the fall of Adam and Eve we all recapitulate right I mean what the this is the point of this story is not to simply give us a curiosity about ancient history something that took place in in you know mythic time before before civilization oh that's interesting no this is to paint a picture for us of what human relationship and and and moral responsibility and moral reasoning looks like and what the consequences of sin are in our lives not in Adam and Eve's life so to speak but in ours and and and how does that work so what's the temptation that we all face in our own Garden of Eden moment right the temptation is that that I am going to I am I am boss and it's my it's my passions my will my inclination that gets to define the content of good and evil right I'm God basically and we're all tempted to do this the problem is we don't we're not adequate for that job right we don't we don't have the requisite requirements to to to determine without God's help the ultimate good and we make a mess of things and the result is alienation alienation from one another and from our highest and greatest good which is God himself and you don't even have to meet the book of Genesis depicts that for us in the story of Adam and Eve but we experience this all on a daily basis all the time look around look around what we find constantly I find it in my own life and you see it on the news you see everywhere you look our people who are caught up loving the wrong things they love the wrong things they choose the wrong things they choose they choose intensity over intimacy that is a big one that is a big one and it wrecks relationships right they choose pleasure over meaning and these are the things that lie at the root of say addiction for example but they lie at the root of so many kinds of dysfunctions um they choose pride over a kind of self effacing growth and wisdom and knowledge that would lead to to real intimacy and real meaning right we double down on the things that we do wrong because we can't abide to say you know I was wrong and on and on and on and all these things flow essentially from that that pride of saying I'm gonna determine the good for me even though I'm really not equipped and adequate to do that and the result is gonna be I'm an alien ain't myself from God for people and so forth and so the like it's not God who's having the hissy fit right we're the ones that's having a hissy fit all right and and of course the the issue of this could God condemn millions of people for our single sin no no that's not the teaching of the Catholic Church Church does not say that we ourselves are condemned and punished for someone else's sin now it says that that original sin is an inherited condition meaning that we are born wounded without knowledge without wisdom without charity right and and these are these are things that we have to receive by way of gift okay that's what it means is virginal sin is a privation it's like these we don't come into the world with wisdom and charity these things have to be given to us that's what the doctrine mean not that we're condemned for Adam and Eve's crime as if we were personally held responsible for it no that's not the teaching of the church and both of these come from a misunderstanding of the purpose of biblical narrative right as the book of Genesis in particular which is which is to depict for us in narrative form spiritual truths that are perennial not just simply located in the past and this is I'm not making this up this has always been the way the Catholic Church has approached the Bible the point of the literal text the literal narrative that we find in Genesis is to reveal to us spiritual truths that are immediately applicable to our own lives anagogical truth which is that in encountering this text I can I can find principles in it that I can apply directly my own situation whereby I can ascend to God all right allegorical truths that point forward to the salvation that we have in Jesus right and who is the second Adam and just like we recapitulate the fault of the first Adam in our own personal sins we can recapitulate the victory of the second Adam in the sacraments we die with Christ and baptism rise again with him to new life so that we ourselves can be continually resurrected putting the past behind us and being reinvented by God and His grace after the likeness an image of Jesus right and then the final question was I think I already answered that one you did you did fantastic I Joanna we hope that's helpful for you and for your friend in Tunisia thanks again for your great email it's called a communion here on EWTN we do have a line open for you if you have a question for dr. David Anders anything at all about the teachings of the Catholic faith why do we believe what we believe why do we not believe these other things over here on the side give us a call at eight three three two eight eight EWTN that's two eight eight three three two eight eight three nine eight six there we go all right Mary is listening in st. Louis on covenant radio hey Mary what's on your mind today yeah hi thanks for taking my call sir I'm interested I'm trying to put together two ideas in the New Testament for one thing in the book of Revelation you know there's that bit about the you know the Saints that are under the altar and they're you know speaking to God you know and asking how long and so on and we're aware that the Saints intercede for us but how do I put that together with other places that refer to Christians who have died as having fallen asleep how do I put together the the awareness on the one hand and then the idea of falling asleep on the other yeah sure thanks I appreciate the question so the biblical references to death using the metaphor of sleep are just that they're metaphors and it's a euphemistic way of talking about death it does not mean that the souls of the just lapse into a Samuel --nt incoherence or something that's not what it means there have been people in the history of Christianity who have held that who thought that the souls of the just are unconscious it's a heresy referred to as a psycho panic eeeh soul sleep right um but it's condemned by the church and that's not that's not the doctrine so in the actually in 14th century Benedict the 12th but beneath the 12th actually wrote an encyclical on this Benedictus Deus was the name of it that taught as a dogmatic fact that the souls of the just do in fact consciously experience the beatific vision and and so the way the church's understanding of this developed was in part the fact that intercession of the Saints has always been a part of the Catholic tradition from even Second Temple Judaism all the way to the present day and the passages that you cited from Revelation are integral to that right the the depiction of the saints actually praying for or offering up the prayers of the church and then the practice of the church of actually seeking their intercession and and of course the those practices those Catholic traditions that are there from the beginning are are one of the modes of Revelation scripture is not the only one and and we reasonably conclude from that that they are in fact conscious and that we take those other texts as mere metaphor okay appreciate your call Mary and because I am the king of segue David I happen to notice an email right here that talks about soul sleep so why don't we just take care of that as long as we're on the subject this is from Henry who says dr. Anders how would one deal with the objection common in those who believe in soul sleep that the Saints do not intercede for us based on verses like Ecclesiastes 9:5 for the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing or revelation 14:13 and I heard a voice from heaven saying write this blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on blessed indeed says the spirit that they may rest from their labors for their deeds follow them and that's from Henry yeah thanks so the book of Revelation is a excuse me the book of Ecclesiastes is a lament right it's a lament and the sacred writer writes about his his experience his phenomenological experience of life as meaningless of eternity as unknowable of eternal life in the vision of God is unattainable how many of us have not felt these things hmm how many of us have not woken up in the morning one day and thought is this all a dream as this all of lie does my life have any meaning I don't seem to be able to connect to God or to other people everything I do is just toil you know I just better off dead better off dead what people have felt that I felt that many people have felt they even believers feel that this guy felt that call that felt that and he wrote it out in a poem and here's the brilliant thing about the sacred scriptures they put that in the Bible they put that in the Bible why why did the Hebrew rabbis and them in the Fathers of the Church think that that should be included in the Canon of the Bible because that's human experience that's what Christ came to save that's the reality of being human being these these despairing that we have from time to time and they can be made into prayer and liturgy that's the brilliant thing that is the brilliant thing but look I'm not going to go to the book of Ecclesiastes 4:8 for a straightforward clear explication of the doctrine of the atonement or the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist or or you know or what not that's not the purpose of the text this is a poem of lament all right so read it the way the genre intends to be read with respect to the book of Revelation and we were just talking earlier about those passages of the text that clearly depict the saints praying for us and again language about rest and sleep and so forth are euphemisms there are euphemisms for what would otherwise be considered or a horrific kind of experience namely death so there you go okay Henry thank you so much for your email and thank you David I'm glad we were able to tie those two things together on the on the same topic there it is called a communion here on EWTN you may not have sampled our latest radio offering it's a special channel called EWTN radio essentials you may remember EWTN radio classics we've kind of doubled down here with what the the wonderful things on radio classics and brought you ewtn radio essentials this is something really wonderful we air on essentials the Holy Sacrifice of the mass every two hours beginning at 8:00 a.m. Eastern and then at 10:00 a.m. 12:00 noon 2:00 p.m. 4 p.m. all the way up to midnight in between you're going to hear rosaries chaplets of divine mercy Stations of the Cross and lots of devotionals every hour so do check it out EWTN radio essentials you can hear it on smart speakers you can hear it on the EWTN app or you can listen online at ewtn radio dotnet it is a wonderful wonderful service and a lot of people have chimed in let us know how much they enjoy it so that is something fantastic just for you and of course it's absolutely free back to the phones right now here on call to communion let's go to Beth in Cleveland listening on AM 1260 The Rock hey Beth what's on your mind today hi hello thank you for taking my call so I just finished my 19th year of homeschooling and we just adopted two children from foster care so we're starting all over again and my therefore they're four and three and a half and we have another little foster son who's 20 almost two and if he if he goes to indeterminate custody were adopting him so so the real reason why I'm calling is the beginning of June there was a prominent Catholic homeschooling family that developed like 15 years ago a Catholic 'el classical Catholic curriculum like bookless syllabus program for homeschoolers and that i've used most of my homeschooling on and off so most of my homeschooling career and i we were kind of blindsided they her husband announced that they were leaving the catholic church and they listed various reasons the basic one of the reasons was the abuse the child the sexual abuse that three of their two or three of their children are now atheists and they have left the church and anyways this post was he's now taken it down this post was very it was heartbreaking treat because we we all looked up to this family of 10 they've homeschooled their whole life she wrote she developed this cat classic Catholic lessons you know state book a planner and and there's their the response was obviously there it was twofold everybody's like yes it's finally it's great you finally left the church this is wonderful and now your future's so bright and then there was the Catholic contingency that were like what the moderators of the curricula and the moderators of the Facebook groups that she's involved in were completely blown away they didn't know they were shocked you know we're all praying for them but they're shocked at the Catholics response and somebody somebody did a YouTube video about why they let or you know that please contact me I will I'll pray with you and help heal your wounds and you know you can't just leave the church and with everything going on with the riots with the virus with black lives matter my daughter my daughter and my foster son or African American and I can't back the court of the organization black lives matter because it goes against everything that I believe in and I just I'm so unsettled with how this you know family that was that did our CIA and and marriage crap and also me Beth let me offer a few thoughts if I might so I'm really familiar very familiar with the sort of the social and intellectual and pedagogical circles that you're describing I mean these many of these groups and and their texts and and so forth have have have crossed my desk in my life many times I myself have been a contributor to the sort of classical education movement within the Catholic and the Protestant church actually before I was Catholic I used to work as an administrator and teacher in a in a classical Christian Protestant school and you know I'm a Catholic school administrator and or educational administrator I should say and I have a very conversant with this with this movement and the people involved right and and so so you know when when folks get interested in classical education that word means different things to different people by the way all right but one of the things that kind of sort of common note is hey we're doing something different we're doing something different we're we're not the mainstream and that's a big appeal homeschooling itself attracts that right because I want to do this because I don't like what's on offer at my public school or my Catholic parochial school and I want do something different and and the classical tradition is attractive one because it's kind of esoteric for a lot of people you know you're just the first time you've ever picked up and read Cicero and Seneca and maybe a Gustin and quintillion and these kind of characters and you get excited about it but also you know you get it can be a note of primitivism involved hey we're going back to the sources we're going back to the early church this is the good stuff and look I'm I get it I appreciate the sentiments and I think that the Catholic intellectual tradition as it's developed in the Catholic pedagogical tradition as they've developed over two thousand years are a source of just nearly infinite riches and wealth and insight and I want to give that treasure to people and I really really do I mean that's a lot of what I do on this show but I also can understand the perspective of somebody who notices this stuff and and says hey well you know my priest isn't talking about quintillion incenter Seneca and Cicero in Augusta and Thomas but there's this there's this Protestant minister over here and he spends all his time reading Puritans and he drops this stuff in his homilies all the time and he claims that he's more Catholic than the Pope and and he's got the bookshelf to prove it right and and there's a kind of intellectualism that comes into play and in a well to be honest with you kind of a note of spiritual pride and and sort of sectarian attitude and and then you look around all these but knighted Catholic folks that don't seem to know their knows from their elbow and and hadn't read all these good books that you've read and here's this group and they've all read the good books and now all of a sudden I'm I'm part of the Gnostic elite my you know I'm on the inside I'm one of the know-it-alls that's a very attractive spiritual temptation it's also kind of an American thing you know we're we're a rebellious lot yeah but but the Gnostic thing that's ancient yeah you know the Gnostic thing like we're we're part of the we're part of the literati we're part of the you know the hermetic circle we're we're the guys in the know right we're the Illuminati yeah that that's very ancient that's very ancient and it's also very easy and and the the real gift of the Catholic intellectual tradition is is at the end of the day when it all boils down to it that the unity of reason right that the god of Revelation and the god of nature are the same God the life of the virtues and and that the greatest wisdom is you know what Socrates realized he said I was the wisest man never left because I alone knew that I did know anything and and all I can do is is try to deepen my capacity for wisdom and love for wisdom and love and and and that is the position of the Catholic Church right that's that's the Catholic Church and these other groups ultimately end of the day don't hold that right because they they think that they can have you know perfect knowledge or the perfect system or or or they downplay charity or whatever it might be right and and we need to call people back to the Spirit of Christ that inspired that great Catholic intellectual tradition that we try to pass on in in the classical movement sure is that helpful for you Beth yes thank you very much you are you are most welcome David were in a bit of a quandary here because we've got maybe 15 seconds before the music starts which is not enough time to tackle a couple of great questions that we have here from Valerie in New Orleans want to give her a shout out also Mary in Canton Ohio these are excellent questions Valerie and Mary would you please call us back tomorrow if you'll call us back tomorrow we can get your questions on the air please call during the the beginning of the hour rather than toward the end so that we can move your calls to the head of the line dr. David Andrews thank you sir hey thanks Tom we do the program Monday through Friday 2:00 p.m. Eastern right here on EWTN radio we also bring you an encore of the same show at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and also a best of show on Sunday is at 2:00 p.m. Eastern don't forget you can check out the podcast pretty much any time that you wish it's great to have these shows on demand because then you can play them for a friend or a family member who needs a little more instruction on something or other EWTN radio dotnet is the place to go for that for our fabulous tea behind the glass I'm Tom Price along with dr. David Andrews see you tomorrow

Channel: EWTN

Views: 2,119

Rating: 4.5087719 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television

Id: dQarfVfGTVY

Length: 53min 57sec (3237 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 08 2020