Building a 6DOF Sim Racing Cockpit

[Music] welcome to another edition of the simracing garage I am Barry Rowland in this episode I'll be taking you on a journey to build a true 6dof motion system this from using existing motion technologies that you can buy today using the awesome JCL v4 motion system and the most excellent next level racing traction plus platform I will be attempting to build a believable six direction of freedom or DOF motion experience now I'll be showing you all the challenges that needed to be met to make this dream cockpit become a reality so let's get to it so let's take a closer look at this 6 DOF build so first thing we'll do is go low and we'll get down to this next level traction plus platform that everything is sitting on and that's the base of course so yeah that's taking all the weight which is about 500 pounds now of course I had to manufacture or fabricate some brackets that would let this happen now the brackets that I have on here I actually have a segment in this video that goes into great detail on what I came up with for mounting but needless to say it is working quite well now with this bracket system you are also able to statically mount a profile rig to the next level Racing traction plus system I have a sitting on actuators because that's the way that I wanted to set this up obviously to get 6 DOF so again we'll go into detail on the on the segment that you can look up in the description for this video and follow along as you can see we've got the actuator sitting on some 4080 profile and those four profiles are sitting on some adapter plates that I fabricated we'll go to the back and we'll go around here and just take a look at the bottom part give you a better look at how that bracket is working now when I first was going to do this bracket I had some other ways of capturing the feet on these actuators but I found a much better solution and that's these cuffs that you see here and they are made for 4080 profile and they work a treat and they are from PT actuator now I did have to put some material in there to make this cup a captive cup instead of a non captive cup which we allow it to slide around a little bit either way would probably work but I just went with that right so we're moving around again on the bottom here and of course we can see the same thing going on up here plenty of clearance for the JCL v4 frame sitting on here and I'll go ahead and go around to the get a better look at this so sitting on the frame is what we've already seen before in a review that I've done which is the excellent JCL Racing v4 platform with surge and you'll notice that there is a p1x cockpit sitting on top of this v4 chassis and also have a segment in this video of how I went about making this narrow enough to accept the p1 X chassis p1 X chassis is 580 millimeters wide the original chassis or the stock or default chassis that JCL has for their v4 is a 780 millimeter chassis and that's what usually ships but again they'll can make this as we see and this is again a proof of concept that they can make it any width that you want to fit on here even the harness tower that is an important part of by the way the surge system on the v4 chassis fits in there just fine at five hundred and eighty millimeters and yeah what can you say about this chassis the v4 it's just a very very nicely sorted unit and the surge is just something that you have to try for yourself to understand how it just how good it is and you can see the p1 is just sitting in those slider brackets that are sliding on linear earrings and rails so everything moves quite well and again I have a detailed segment on how this all went together as far as setting the p1x cockpit down inside of this once I had shortened the cross members of the original jcov four chassis that was sent to me for testing right you know you also notice that I have some brake configuration here for the brake tray a big pedal tray rather that is different than the stock one of course the p1x comes with that nice height adjustable pedal tray but because I was able to fit this one to the p1 and chassis our p1 x p1 same thing as far as width goes I was able to fit this with that linear rail system on there it makes it so easy to adjust the pedals and really locks it down very very tightly once you set it back down and the reason I did that was because I do have is you might imagine a few people coming by from time to time to try these cockpits and try the movement in them or lack thereof but this makes it a lot easier to adjust things especially when my seat is kind of fixed I want four bolts but I can loosen those bolts and still have the seat forward and backward pretty easily and we don't have the original v4 steering wheel mount here so we don't have that sliding accessory or that sliding motion that we can get out of it right so we have the Prisma seat from NRG mounted and we have a trough six point harness system and everything is working quite well so yeah just wanted to give you guys a shot of this we I did put a floor board in there I cut down the original floor board so it would fit this 500 millimeter gap in here so that when people get in and out they're not stepping on the controller boxes great idea right and we have the Bodnar 54g sim steering - mounted up here to the great front mount that comes with your PM 1x or the former p1 copy it from sim labs and we're running the wave Italy pedal pack here and that's about it I don't have a shifter mounted right now and it's just a simple matter of coming over here because I am in a right hand shifting country and just mount my shifter like I would on the p1 that you guys have seen in many videos when I was testing shifters out so I just don't have it mounted right now because the people were in here testing I had over relieved it really didn't need to do any shifting we just did all the shifting on the paddle shifters because we're really just testing out the motion so everything works a treat yeah everything went together well there was a lot of work in it as you might imagine pulling the v4 chassis completely apart to get the crossmembers out and this is the front one you can see here and that had to be trimmed 200 millimetres so yeah that was for those I had to do and then course reassemble and put it like I said it was the kind of a labor-intensive thing to do all that but the results I think are more than worth it and again you can check down in the description for the segment's for those pieces of this video as far as how I mounted a p1 to the v4 and also how we did the brackets fabrication for our next level traction + platform so right the next thing we're going to do is get into the platform go ahead and fire it up now I might even show you guys a little shot of it moving as we get everything fired up and ready to go and then we'll get in and take a look at the GUI or the controller software for both the D box and the next level racing and yeah this is something that could have been a problem having two dissimilar systems coming together and trying to get them to work together and sync up properly so you get something that felt like a real car is not something that's guaranteed when you do a project like this so we'll take a look at what I ended up with in those configurations so we're going to take a quick look at the start up sequence of this system and they start at different times the next level Racing's traction Plus will start first and then the D box system when the JCL v4 chassis will start and I have everything wire into this power strip over here so I can turn it on and I'll come over here and we'll turn on the next level racing watch it move all right and now we'll see the D box system should come up and there we go and now we're ready so everything is online everything went through their boot up process and self calibration process and now we should be good to go so let's go take a look at the settings we ended up with for this a 6000 F platform now let's take a quick look at the configuration I ended up with an M this is still kind of a work in progress that tweaked it a little bit here and there depending on what I want to do as far as dirt or regular circuit driving that kind of thing so up here I have the iRacing motion coach Settings window open and of course we get that open from down here in settings in the d box game center and I have this 150 will go to the actual editor and what I've done here is the accelerations for left and right as far as role is concerned I actually have turned that down a lot and the reason is when you have this sway platform that's doing this way in the yaw this traction + platform from next level racing you don't need much roll because it you know they still want a little roll obviously but you just don't need much because now you have something else that really kind of takes precedence over that when you feel it so you don't need as much roll so I'm trying to minimise my movement - to where I need it in or what I don't need it rather and give myself movement where I do need it so again we've turned that down to 29 versus the up and down I still want to feel the road bumps and that is at 47 so we go down here the surge gain I've got 54 and surgery activity I have 43 and the rest of the stuff is just the normal effects engine vibration skid vibration suspension servus texture things like that now I'm going to go over to the next level racing configurator or their configuration software and you see I have some erasing profile saved here and I'm going to go ahead and click on that and I noticed that it would not it or didn't by default this next level traction plus platform did not enable itself when the game started it may have been because I had D box running already and D box all the game and it started but I found it was very easy just go in and pull whichever profile was working on and just click on activate once you do that it goes back down then I'll pull it back up and then I can go to my oversteer and understeer and this is where I wanted you guys to actually have a look at what's going on here now when I first got the profile now this is the newer profile for our race and remember when I did the review for the traction plus I only had a profile for set of Corsa at that time now of course we have the iRacing profile and I noticed when I was first testing it that it was a little bit well is actually a lot yah prune or y'all biased in other words I go around a turn in a wood yah instead of the front moving its they moved a little bit but the rear moved a lot more and first I thought it might be pivot point that didn't do anything then I went enter to via vehicle understeer prunus so this is what worked I think it default it was like way down here I forget it was very low I have it 42 now let's see as low as I can go yeah it was right there at 5 so I actually have it up to 40 to 5 something or over 5 in anywhere and there's fine and yeah that's that's what I ended up with but if you'll also notice here on the other effects understeer effect intensity I have that at 81 this stuff all defaults to like 1.25 including the oversteer effect intensity was 1 to 5 and so was everything else so I've got that as you can see cranked down a bit and that is because it's it was just too much at least in my opinion of course all of this is subjective again the stand disclaimer from the srg yeah it's all subjective when it comes to motion direct drive force feedback all that kind of stuff so whatever makes you happy is what you want to use but this seemed to be a good setting with this understeer proneness for the other people that I had driving and will see that when I get to the driving segment for this platform that yeah we've had a few other people in here and yeah as you might imagine everyone was pretty happy and we can adjust this on the fly so I was making some adjustments as people were driving just to see what they thought was better and everybody was pretty pleased what you see right here right so there it is not much else to see here go back and it takes me back to this this actual page and let's get my settings back up for d-box and let's see there it is so I have usually have this window open and I'll have this one over here open when I'm doing my driving so that I can always hit activate for some reason now I have it as a habit and yeah so this is this is the two screens I'll have open so I can actually tweak things back and forth and see how they feel and I'm going by fuel in by the video I used to I was shooting video when I initially started tuning this because I really you know I was trying to drive at the same time as feel-feel everything but I also wanted to look over and see what the chassis was doing and you know how much it was moving and how much you know it took tour or how little it took for me to feel the effect that way I wanted to so there that was that was fun doing that so anyway this is where I've ended up with a course again subjective but now let's just get in here and I'm gonna drive you'll see me driving and in a couple of different angles on the camera then I'll show some other guys driving and those guys obviously had a great time but they also were different weights there's another thing I always wanted to talk about and I'll talk about that while driving remember we have an official claimed weight limit of the traction plus platform from next-level racing to be 518 pounds so I'm at 500 pounds with me in this rig as it sits I had someone else it was about the same way as me get in it and run it I had someone there 175 pounds and I had another person who was 185 pounds so it was good to see the differences if there were any as far as how the system reacted to those added weights and you I think you'll see in the videos there really wasn't any difference anyway well we'll see that when we get to the actual driving segment where we'll discuss all that next so I've already narrowed the JCL v4 chassis and yeah it was a matter of and I got a piece here cutting down these four spreaders or crossing profiles to or by 200 millimeters this was actually the you can see the frame over there for the cockpit that was sitting on top of it before and now Matt was seven hundred and eighty millimeters wide so the p1 cockpit that I'm putting on here is five hundred and eighty millimeters wide so I only had to cut out two hundred millimeters right so we got that done then we had to obviously put everything back together and we did a little bit of different cable management not that much what they had already pretty much was it was good to go but I just had to rearrange a few things a little bit and yeah so everything went back together quite well I've already tested it and it's looking good so now all we have to do oh one more thing this box back here there is a concern of the surge actuator actually hitting the box when we had two of them sitting back here before I had two on the other side of this side of that bar I had to move the bar back a little bit over here and move the second one over the bar to clear the reach of that actuator not a big deal just sliding around a few things just again just rearranging things a bit to make this work like it should and there's are the brackets the slider brackets that will be setting the copied into and yeah everything's ready to go we're at five hundred eighty millimeters exactly one these brackets so it should just fit right in there and again yeah this is something obviously you wouldn't be doing if you originally ordered the JCL v4 chassis or platform with the requirements for p1 or you know for whatever requirements you have either five eighty five hundred or whatever the width your profile cockpit would be so yeah all we've got to do now is set the I'm putting a P 1 X 1 here and it's kind of stripped down so it's gonna be lighter when we set it on this chassis and then I'll build it back up but yeah next we'll just go ahead and see if we can lift this on and make sure it fits right now we have the p 1x bottom frame mounted to the JCL v4 frame and we'll just kind of walk around here to see what we've got and of course it's sitting in the cradles in the position it needs to be sitting and it fit right in I'll show you a quick shot of it here it did it's a snug fit which it should be because the v2 cockpit that was on top of it before was a very snug fit when I've said it when I took it off and put it back on a couple of times when I was doing some things anyway so yeah it's looking good you can see that I have down here the surge actuator has plenty of room here I'm actually gonna back this up a little bit frame whoops okay like that and then we're gonna put the brackets on obviously so we can attach it on either side to this 4160 profile and everything is lining up perfectly so this is gonna work I do have a little bit more on the back of this bracket hanging off the back of the bracket then I do on the front up here but I really don't think it's going to make a difference once this is bolted down yeah it's just going to be moving yeah pretty well I've actually slid it around a little bit and you can see that yeah I'm just moving it with one hand here very easy to move I really love this this system managed is so slick so this actuator right here won't have any problems moving this even when I get everything built on top of this with a seat the uprights wheel bases and pedals and all that kind of stuff so yeah we're looking really good at this point and yeah we'll just get on to the next segment I wanted to show you guys the p1 X chassis securely mounted to the JCL v4 d box surge chassis and yeah it was a simple thing just putting in some tea nuts and setting it into the these brackets here or sometimes I'm call them cradles on the linear bearing system and of course we have them in the back no drama is putting this on because there are slots in these brackets you can see the slots there so it allows up-and-down movement of the screw in that bracket so yeah no dramas there everything worked quite well now I want to come over here and take a look at this beautiful surge actuator and the brackets for this again no drama here everything went in quite well and these holes land right up with this 4160 series spreader or with plate or with profile if you will and over here on this side you can see we have the brackets attached there and yeah everything is working good in fact I'm going to cruise over here and check these sign brackets out again no dramas here and you saw before how it kind of just kind of fell in it's a very snug fit so our measurements were really precise when we got this cut so that worked out a lot better than I had hoped alright so I'm gonna fire this thing up and let you see the actuator working here in the back so but it takes a minute for this thing to boot up so we can see that but we're gonna watch that actuator work and see them moving the whole chassis yeah that is beautiful man just as slick as can be and we've got a couple of bars here these are 10 series bars on it got some corner brackets I'm going to cinch those down nice and tight once I get the floor plate cut so it'll fit in this 500 millimeter spacing and I decided to because I had it on hand use the JCL s really cool linear bearing system for the pedal tray because it's gonna make it very easy to adjust when people are coming about to try this out and there will be a lot of people coming by how to try this out I can guarantee you anyway we've got the wheel bases mounted we got the seat over here getting ready to go on so it's coming along quite well and yet when we come back we'll probably have the seat mounted maybe the wheel base in and some pedals and yeah see where we're at from there in this segment we're gonna be talking about fabricating a bracket that's going to perform the duties that this bracket did when we had the GT track cockpit mounted to the next level traction plus platform and all I really need this for is these holes here it's going to be my template if you will to transfer this whole pattern onto this aluminum plate because I'm going to use this to create our fabricators I said before the mounting system to put my p1 chassis on with the d box actuators or it may be another chassis with D box actuators heaven having a term in that yet well when we get there we'll take a look at that so here's the idea I need the strands for the pattern obviously on here so I can mount this plate on to the motion bars that you see here and I'm going to use this 4080 not this particular one but this 4080 profile this is a 40 series 40 80 and what I'm going to do with this is set it on top of those bolts once we have our holes we can bolt this on and then I'm going to set this on top of those bolts now I'm not gonna really set them on top of those bolts what I'm gonna do is drill some clearance holes that match the same pattern here so that the bolts will not interfere with this laying flat on the plate right with me so far and then I'm gonna take I haven't determined how many I want to use yet but I'm gonna take some angle brackets and you can see I can put one on each side when this is centered something like that and I'm not sure how many of you is I might just use three on each side depending how long it's gonna be but then I'll have this set up so we're capturing the profile using this these brackets here to the plate that's already mounted to the motion bar this I'm calling a motion bar and once that's achieved this will be long enough to go out and capture the actuators on whatever platform that you're putting on this and it could be anything right so we need to capture the feet though and this isn't a example of a d-box foot or I call a cup for the 4,400 actuators that I have now I don't want to just set the actuators on top and try to capture the foot without this little cup right so the idea here is and this should work fine is let's do the best way for you guys to see this let me take these off get it off this aluminum plate just to capture in this cup which we can actually set the feet into so we put the cup up here if you'll see the cup actually is about the same size just a smidge over the edges and I want to take these corner brackets some more corner brackets obviously and set these in here like this in the channels and we're going to use these tabbed gusseted corner brackets very strong and being with tabs they'll line up nice and strong in the profile here and we'll do the same thing on the other side this one doesn't have tabs so I'll just set that on there like this so this will capture the foot so that it can't move this way all right so if it's on sitting on the motion simulator that would be in a lateral direction and not only that but we can tweak the location laterally of the foot now remember we have to get this pretty much perfect for the spacing it has to be eleven hundred and sixty millimeters between the center's where these holes are of those motion bars they have to the Centers of those bars have to be exactly eleven hundred sixty millimeters apart or it won't function at optimum levels because that's how the software is calibrated those have to be that distance so we have to work within those parameters now what about going forward or backwards let's say we have a lot of pitch in our rig and we're worried about it sliding forward well we can take another one of these and put it up here and I've actually mocked it up and we can actually because of the slots in these I can put a bolt in here alright and the bolt has a lot of room to move up and down so I can actually put a T nut in here with the bolt in it and still get this high enough to capture the edge of that foot so now I have it boxed in here and of course I'll have one on the other side boxing in on the other side so now we've got full capture of this Cup so it can't move that's what I have for a mock up I'm thinking about two other solutions this is one I'll use if if the other two don't work and one of them actually is the best solution of all if it is large enough to capture the bottom of the d box actuator which I think it will be and that is a prefabbed unit that another company makes that fits into the 40 series channel and it's got a flange on either side of it and the cup is in the middle of it and it's all one piece and that would be optimal yeah that's what I'm really looking forward to getting there i ordered a set of those i'm really looking forward to getting those so that yeah i can figure it out whether or not the d box actuators will fit in there and if they do great if not then we've got other things that we can do to still make it work to wear this foot won't get away from us when we're moving around on the cockpit so that's the idea and drilling some holes on just one side of this profile I'm not too concerned about it compromising the structural integrity of it as far as when we're gonna load it on the each side of this depending on how long it is I don't know how long it's gonna be yet because we have we have to get there before we can determine that but I'm not too worried about just having some holes big enough to clear where's my little at here this this eight millimeter socket head cap bolt right so once I have a hole big enough to clear that in the same pattern it's just gonna sit right on top and not cause any any issues I don't think as far as any kind of a flex problem and this should be pretty good this is the they call this actually a light profile for you serious profile because it's not filled in on these ends over here and it's also a little bit less thick on the actual pieces appear then a heavy piece and it still should work because we got solid aluminum bar all the way through this profile you can see it's solid right there and right there so of course that runs our spans the whole length of whatever size a profile we have so I'm not too worried I think this is gonna as long as I don't have to put it out you know like six feet I'm not too concerned about it bending in this aluminum plate over here is a 6061 plate and at six point six millimeters thick or a quarter inch thick and that should be fine the only thing we're going to be concerned with is when we're mounting the plate to the module of the motion bars over there I have to make sure that once i bottom out on top of this plate I've got plenty of room let's do it this way for the screw to get enough of this screw or thread into that motion bar now this is a 20 millimeter socket head cap screw our bolt and I'm thinking I might end up going to the 25 because I've always already run this in here and I'm just I'd like to have another 5 mil or so in that threaded piece in the motion bar and I think that's what we'll end up with but anyway so we'll do next in the next segment is actually get this Lumina plate measured out we want to get the centers on it from we want to get the center from here to here make sure we're absolutely Center and we also want to get the center from the other edges here to here and then once I know my dead center then it's easy enough to come in with our bracket set it on top of that center line and also I'll make sure that I'm equal distance from each edge of this plate over here and yeah once we set it on there that's a matter of transferring these holes and I'll show you how I do that over to the aluminum plate and then we can drill it and we should be done if we did all of our measuring correctly so we'll tackle that when we come to the next segment so I already have the centers marked out or the center of this plate and kind of bright lights in here but I'll try to get a side where there we go you can see the pencil marks that I've put on there and where they cross this dead center on this plate now this is a very squarely cut plate and I got this off eBay off a company I usually use because they have a good saw and yeah everything I get from them is pretty much perfectly square but if it's not that can throw you off a little bit then you have to square it yourself so it does raise some other issues but no my problem here now is to get the center and the reason I'm getting the center I have to know exactly where the center is on this plate as I discussed in the last segment to make all this work you know I want to be as precise as possible on the holes that I'm about to drill in this plate because it has to match that pattern perfectly I will have a little bit of wiggle room around that hole because I'm gonna make the hole obviously the holes got to be a little bit bigger than the size of this thread which is m8 which should be eight millimeter let's see what it comes up as let me flip it around so you guys can see it so this is an m8 bolt and you can see it's actually seven point eight seven millimeters eight eight eight all right so if I actually put a true eight millimeter hole in this plate this is going to fit fine and actually have a little bit of wiggle room there and I'd like to have it a little bigger though so I'm probably going to go another few tenths of a millimeter over the eight but we'll see once we get there right but these holes have to be precise in the course they have to match the pattern that is in this bracket over here so that's why you want to start with a good centre so you know and I want the bolts obviously to be centered across here so when I'm out my profile on here it will be centered also okay so there's a couple ways to do this just measure the length or the width with a machinist ruler like this and then divide by two and that should give your Center and you can mark it on both sides of the plate like I did here and it's hard for you guys to do and then draw your lines again using your rulers down there or you can use one of these and these are fun to use they do just cut the time down a little bit do calculations you can see this has a zero over here in the middle with ones twos threes fours so forth going out towards the left and right and this is in inches by the way it's not millimeters and all you do is you set this on the piece of metal and you look at the numbers on the end and is I'm looking at tens that are close to being even so I'll go to the tens and I'll look down on the sixteenth of an inch it looks like I'm gonna have to use here let's see I'll put this on a sixteenth of an inch short of the tin and this one was actually a thirty-two over here so that's a little bit off if I move it back a little Wow so I'm gonna put the thirty twos use the thirty twos and if I look at it now that I've done that I can see that my center line here is perfectly on that zero line which gives me confidence that I actually did it right and I just use the smaller one here this is just another example of the same kind of thing and yeah and this is actually a precision machinist ruler we actually have it in for those of you who care in 30 seconds and sixteenths on this side and then we flip it over we can actually go to we have 30 seconds yeah I can see this 30 seconds of an inch here and on the other side we have sixty fourths flip it around so these are very very fine marks you can see on the bottom of that rule and that you know machinist rule that's the way they're done sometimes I gotta for the magnifier ones see those little marks make sure I'm where I need to be anyway so now we've got this centered out I know exactly where my holes are gonna be everything's looking good then I go over to my bracket and I do the exact same thing I actually found the center on this bracket and I made a little mark here mark there and you can see that mark is kind of in line here don't pay attention to this this is some kind of a where mark or something but is right on center with the hole there all right the bottom of the hole and I actually made a mark in the bottom of that hole on how well you're gonna be able to see it but there's right on the edge here so that the center of this plate goes right through the center of this hole too so all I have to do is take the template if you will and I'm gonna lay it on top of this aluminum plate and what I'm looking for is to get my Center mark marked up with my center line here and that's looking pretty good now once I have us that then I have look down you guys are not gonna be able see this unfortunately but I'm what I'm doing is looking down on right on top of these holes here and looking for that long centered line on the aluminum plate easy enough to see really not that hard and then I have to land all six holes up so that they intersect the holes here right through them in the middle and it's easy to see that actually when you're looking that straight down on it you can see when it's all lined up and ready to go okay now I'm gonna use a transfer punch that's what this thing is you can see you can get these things in a lot of different sizes you need a whole kit here that has a ton of a minute and this is not metric this is metric so you're gonna have to find you're probably gonna find that it's not exactly super tight fit when you put it in there fact I'll pull this off and show you it is a pretty good fit though this goes through like this and it's pretty good fit I mean I can actually move it a little bit see that's the limit there and that's the limit on the other side so that's pretty close fit and that's gonna also allow me to pull this out very gently without disturbing the plate once I start my marking process and you'll see the advantage of that as we do it and yeah it's it's loose enough in the next the next size up when that kit is not gonna fit in here anyway right but this is actually I like the way this is doing it's just got a little bit of movement either way so we're gonna put the plate back go on the line it right back up again this is pretty easy to do once you've done this a few times you know what you're looking for just getting everybody lined up looking at all the holes and that is looking brilliant yes now also because this is a little bit loose it won't be binding up on these holes when I'm trying to pull it back out and it's got a short tip on this I'll show you that right there so when it hits the surface of that aluminum it's it's short enough to where we're engaging the circle part here the bar part in that hole so it's not slepping around on me that's another thing if this plate was this bracket plate was any thinner then this would be so tall I couldn't I would be not getting any of this round part in the hole to hold it still so I'm kind of lost at that point I had to figure something else out but here we don't have any issues and again I always look at this three or four times just make sure before I started the process now it's pretty simple process so I'm gonna do all I need is a mark I don't need to whack this thing all right I just need to get a mark and that's what I'm gonna do hold it as straight as I can look down on it and try to get it as straight as I think it needs to be and just give it a little like that now pull it up and look and that's a good mark I can actually see that and of course we're just gonna work our way down very carefully because we don't want to disturb these plates while we're doing this and that's all you have to do see how easy it is beautiful and all these marks are going right on that line that I have in there and that's another indication that you've centered your holes properly on your line that's going all the way across this plate beautiful one more I mean nervous and get the last one here everything's going too well alright there we go alright so that was successful we didn't disturb the plates so they stay where they were and now we have our marks and that's all I need is a mark I don't need a big dent or anything at this point now I don't know how well this is going to show up I'm gonna try to show it to you mmm okay so we got a mark see if I can see him there they are one two went to their way I got a mark here it's a light shine on it mmm yeah there it is see it right there if I keep doing that there's the second one next to it and if I keep doing it you'll see another one coming up there it is close to the sensor that I made and if we keep going there's the other one now those two are further apart from each other and if we keep going we should be able to see two more and there they are right on the line beautiful okay so now we have to make these holes a little bigger so what we'll do now is pull out my what's known as a they call this a prick yeah there that's prick punch and the reason they call it a prick punch is because well it will give you a definite prick on your finger it's very very sharp on the ends of these and this is when we have to make a very precise little mark and not only that because I just have barely a mark in this this metal here I need something very sharp that will fall into that like that now it's sitting in the divot I already made now I can come in and start getting a little more aggressive with my marks just like that and just work your way down and it's just a wonderful thing when it all starts working like you want it to and you know what this ominous looks pretty Deus but in the end once we have perfectly aligned holes you'll understand why we did it the first time you don't have perfectly aligned holes you'll understand why I'm doing this nothing's worse then nothing is worse than getting your holes all drilled out and then putting it where you need to attach it and one of them is just a little bit off and then it's just a mess you start filing things and trying to get everything lined up so just as a quick look there you can see I'm actually open these holes up a bit start down there with these - are they there they are so now we can actually see them a lot better and I will continue this process until I get it where I want now I'll actually pull out my if this is big enough that's created a divot big enough for me to locate this one in and this is my spring one and I'll just go like this and that really puts a hole in something or a divot makes a bit of a noise but I'll just show you that real quick because you don't see me do all of these see how much bigger it's getting compared to where it was before here's the the closest Center there's the only one but here's these two and yeah I'm gonna go ahead finish this up because once I finish setting these up over to the drill press and then we're gonna start drilling our holes here are the plates with the holes drill them to match the template that we marked before when we did our layout and I just want to go over something real quick with you here and remember this is a m8 bolt we have to use here it has a cap head on it right now this cap head has a bit of a lip on it there it's about three four millimeters wide and I wanted this to fit into the hole obviously has to go through the holes but I didn't want it real loose because I just wanted to use the cap head edge here that you see here I wanted to use that to contact the aluminum and pull the aluminum plate tight on that motion bar when we when we bolt these down now if the holes too big you can always use a washer right but even the washer will pull down a little bit trying to support the lip here so it's better if you have a nice snug fit I'll show you that here in the hole that you're using to bolt this down to so I'm just put that in there you see it drops right in and the hole in this heads gonna have a lot of support there that way we do have some wiggle in it but not much and you want a little bit of lack of lash in here as we call it you know a little bit of room to move because we still have to have a little bit of play in here when we try to line this plate up to that bar over there and hopefully yes if we did our our part then this should fit without a problem now drilling the plate no big deal remember this is an m8 mic this out to I think it was eight just under eight eight let's see we got here okay yeah it's a seven eight six and I used a drill bit that is eight oh six all right so that's two tenths more than the boat itself of a millimeter so that's why it's such a nice snug fit but still loose enough so we can play with it now I also used I like to drill pilot holes for this kind of precision drilling and that's 4.3 millimeter for this so I used this 4.3 millimeter drill bit to do up and I'll show you a shot of it here of actually drilling the holls first with the four millimeter and that removes material and also gives me a nice straight centered hole then we go back and we go with the 8.0 six millimeter bit to follow that hole that we just do with the four point three and when you're trying to make holes run true even on a drill press even though this is not a very good drill press it's just a benchtop it's it's nothing special believe me it's like a hundred dollars there's nothing something cheap but it works and yeah so we got the holes drilled now all we have to do is go over and see how we did as far as matching the bar over here so let's walk over here and let's get this plate see if you'll stick on here first I'm gonna start with the top hole and line that up go ahead and get that started on by the way I am using as I said before I might need a twenty five mil and that's what I'm using here twenty five mil length alright so I got the top one started that's always easy right now we got to get the bottom one started here so I'm just gonna kind of put that in there and there we go but of course this is a pattern we were following so there's no guarantee the rest of them are gonna fit either so we'll just start wiggling things around here and see if we get these things started milling - yeah we're going for four that's three brother four there we go man this is about this one more done wow that is great so yeah we took our time and yeah that's all we got to do is take your time get your layout right and look at that that is a beautiful man and doesn't get much better than that right I would call that a good result so now that we have the plate done all we have to do now is obviously get it figure it out to where how long that profile is gonna be that fits on top of this plus I'm going to take these plates back over to the bench and Mark hole for the corner brackets that are going to hold that profile so that'll be the next thing we do and then I have to get the rig set up right so I'm ready to set the feet down on top of these bars measure how wide that is where my feet are actually gonna fall on there's actuator feet and then I have to cut the profiles to that length I'll talk about that as we progress but yeah I call this a good result now let's look at mounting the profile piece to our plate here and it's really simple I mean the hardest part was getting this pattern correct so whereas we saw that it bolts directly to those motion bars now I went ahead and mocked up again this piece of 48 we're using and went ahead and put my corner brackets on here and I'm thinking that three corner brackets is going to be sufficient to hold this bar still once we have all the things about could remember we're going to be running em 8 bolts through each one of these and have a nylon lock nut on the bottom of it and in this the nuts will clear already check the clearance so remember our motion bars is actually a little thinner than this 4080 profile so it's not going to be a clearance issue for having bolts hanging down underneath it as it moves around and yeah I'm thinking this is gonna be plenty once this is all securely bolted up and I've went ahead and spaced out everything as far as the corner brackets and this again is where the center on this plate comes into play where our Center mark is which is the crossing one here right so I'm gonna use these marks here when I put my profile on I've already done that first you make sure your equal distances from the edges of this plate so that should put me at center on the bar right so once the bar is centered then it's a met a simple matter of sliding these centerpieces in so I can see that line right through the groove here and then I can start to make my marks and I just move these brackets out to I have them three millimeters from the edge on both sides here so they're equal to and I'm the reason I'm being so careful here and some people would say anal is because I want to make sure that everything is centered for the load-bearing that this bar is going to have to take on those two actuator feet on each one of these bars now remember if they if the cockpit I'm my guess it might my guessing but my calculator weight is around just under 500 pounds with me and the cop hit with a shifter and wheel and all that stuff mounted sitting on top of this all right so I'm well within the limits of the manufacturer recommended in weight limits but you we're not going to have 500 pounds on each point here we're actually going to have if it works right and you do everything equal then it should balance out to where we're only at like 100 and 125 or so pounds on each foot so 225 pounds on each side of this bar which is not much for this bar it'll it'll handle it and the bar is only going to be 800 millimeters I've already measured that out so I can have no problem with thinking that it's gonna be okay and it'll be able to handle the load quite well and remember this is just floating on that motion bar that's on the next level motion platform our next level of traction Plus platform that swivels around so it's kind of floating on the bar I'm not sure how much sideways force is going to be on this but I'm pretty certain that bolted this quarter inch or 6.6 millimeter plate with 6m 8 bolts secured tightly shouldn't be a problem I would I would if something happens and it's a problem I would be quite surprised to be honest I mean I could put four on each side but I think that would mean just a bit of overkill right now we're capturing feet here but let's say we weren't and we just want to put a profile rig onto our traction plus system well very simple it's actually easier than what I'm doing here in fact you could just use a piece of profile this long because it kind of matches the plate here right so you could just actually bolt this together and you'd be done then all you got to do is have this sitting on your traction plasma motion bars and course have the eleven hundred sixty millimeter spacing between those bars on the center's and then just come in with your rig let's say this is your rig and this is the sideways or width spanning piece of profile alright so you got your sidebars coming this way that run the length of the cockpit this is what separates it or spreads it out to whatever with your cockpit is spread out too and in this case it's a p1 and the p1 and p1 X are both 500 millimeters on those spacings of course total width it's going to be 580 because we have those 40 series profiles on each side and you have to add that but anyway simple enough you just set this one whichever side you want this side or this side and then come in with a corner bracket put the corner bracket in there and then secure it and put as many corner brackets in here as you want to secure your rig to this bar you're done very simple in fact if s brought was all I was gonna do it'd be a lot easier on me to but yeah and I just want to show you guys that because yes simple to mount a profile rig using this system you have to worry about cups to catch actuator feet or not any of that stuff alright I just want to show you that while I was going over this part so we're all set really all I have to do now is go ahead and make my marks for the holes and I'm looking down straight on these brackets here the middle ones this one and this one to make sure I line everything up and I don't have to worry about this spacing over here because I know it's going to be equal if I have my line straight looking down here and of course I want to make sure it's straight this way and I'm using the corner bracket links to determine that so that looks about right all right there and I can also use my center line remember we had a center line running all the way through this plate here and I can always look down on that and see where it's centered too and that's perfect except now I got to move it this way all right so what we're gonna do is go ahead and mark the holes and I'm not going to show you guys that because I've already showed you me marking holes and drilling holes but you get the idea of how I'm doing this and I'm going to ahead mark my holes go over to the drill press and get both of these plates drilled out so they can accept these angle they all have these corner brackets rather and yeah when we come back we'll see what the finished product looks like now we have both of our aluminum adapter plates mounted to the modules and tightened down very tightly and yeah this is a very very solid mount as you might imagine and here's the profiles now these are cut to 40 inches or I believe it was 1016 millimeters right and that's where we're going to put the cups on each end of this as we discussed before to catch the actuators from our D box system now I want to mount this to the plate and as we discussed before with those corner brackets those gusseted corner brackets but once you have this tightened we needed to cut or drill some access holes and that's what you see here so we have the same pattern here that we have there obviously I wouldn't fit and we're just going to kind of set this on top to get them land up here the first time it's like that now of course I'm not using that to hold or to secure this in anyway that will be the angle brackets that we put on here and yeah once this is and you can see how it sits nice and flat and one thing also you really got to pay attention to your centers on everything as you go along in this process I made sure I was dead center on this profile once I had the length I needed so that everything lines up like it should not only centered this way but also centered that way because we wanted to be directly over the motion bar itself so to get the most support we didn't want weight hanging off the front of the back if it was possible and this is really the only way I could figure out to do it so we've got that set up so I'm gonna go over here and show you guys the back one it's already done and you can see we've got our gusseted corner brackets already installed and there's three on each side and that's regular t-nuts in the channels and on the bottom we have some nylon type safety nuts that won't come off once we tighten them down so we've got those nice and tight and yeah it's a very very sturdy setup of course it's very you know the rear module moves around but yeah this thing is once you heat it up against there that is tight I don't have any problem or any worries that this is not going to hold the cockpit once we get it mounted on top I think it's going to be just perfect so there we have it we've got this one all bolted up now we have to do is get the one over here bolt it up with its angle brackets and then it's a matter of just installing our other angle brackets that's going to capture the cups that capture the feet on our D box actuator so we'll get to that part next now remember I was going to use some corner brackets or multiple corner brackets to capture the actuator feet on this mod to get a profile but will a D box equip profile anyway comp it firmly attached to this treshon plus platform but I sourced some different cups here there's a much better solution a much cleaner solution this is from PT actuator now this is a company in China and I've got a set of four of these now these are aluminum cups you look closer look there and of course the brackets that they fit on are a perfect match for a 40 80 series profile so we'll go back here and you can see the ones in the back and of course you can see all our corner brackets down there too of course this is a much cleaner and possibly more secure solution than using those corner brackets but I think I mentioned when I was talking about the corner brackets that I was looking at some other solutions and this is what I ended up with yeah I'm liking this a lot more and I'm sure you guys are too if you're watching this video so yeah very nice solution here now remember if this was not a JCL or any profile cockpit for that matter this is jcov for course that I would just be mounting over here underneath this profile I would just be setting the front edge of this profile on to the profile we have mounted to our adapter bracket under there and just using a series of corner brackets to secure than this profile to the one that's already mounted to our adapter plate down there so easy enough if you're just going to statically mount a profile cop hit - what we've already got to this point right and we talked about that in the earlier parts of this video so yeah very slick solution here I think what do you guys think and there was a 135 dollars for a set of four of these and you'll also notice that inside of those I have some spacer material it's a very hard plastic but it's long enough to get a very light radius bend in it and because the feet were originally when they fit in this cup we're just a little bit sliding around because they just weren't perfectly matched to the cup which I was expecting that so I just put some spacing material all the way around I'll show you this one in the back here and yeah each one of these just to keep it from moving around I don't think it would make that much of a difference as far as the you know the the feet moving around inside that cup but because it would be a non what they call a non captive type of cup at that point we're in other words it doesn't move and the foot doesn't move inside of it and yeah it's like I said either way I think it would work but I just I just wanted to do it this way just because and we'll walk around to the other side and of course again as I said before this is the fantastic JCL v4 Serge copy they were actually mounting here so yeah this is all working out well and you can see that I can actually move this back and forth there's not power it up and yeah everything's rotating like it should underneath so I think this is going to work like a champ so here we are in iRacing in the 6000 f system and first off the chances of these two systems working together the way they do my expectations were not very high that they would and I have to say that they work quite well together and it just you know it's one of those lucky things in life I guess because I was sure that one would be a lot slower than the other or something like that or there just be way too much time between these shifts especially when we're talking about a sway and yaw platform underneath a d-box surge equipped platform but anyway it seems to yeah it seems to deliver the goods here I don't have a lot to complain about now again it's gonna be hard for me to convey to you guys exactly what's going on here and what you feel but when you have a 6dof system and all of these DOF are coming in like they should in a car or at least as close as we're probably going to get it just comes it just makes it a better involved experience and it also makes me a better driver I actually now this is what the most biggest shocker to me was actually not two-tenths off my time in this Ferrari 488 GTB in Sebring and it's the same track same conditions for the weather all that stuff is the same and same setup for the car but I actually was able to knock two tenths off and that happened while a couple other people who are over here trying it we were just jumping in and out of it and seeing who could get the best lap but I was really shocked at that and I think the reason that is is because now you're feeling what the car is doing like you never did before and it's it's a lot more intuitive to me anyway on what the car is doing the weight transfer when I get some some yaw going on and or I've got the sway going on with the weight transfer in the car it's just one of those things that come together in and just with the braking stresses that you have on your body from the six point harness with the surge element and of course the usual heave pitch and roll that the d box systems are capable of delivering so again you bring it all together and it lets you feel for the first time really what the car is doing all around before it's always been well you have this you have that but you're missing the other stuff so we kind of you know we we don't we do for muscle memory I guess is what I'm trying to say if we go through a corner a certain way and I don't have sway or yaw and I'm going through it another way as far as corner entry and the mid corner and corner exit if I go through one time and it's faster than the other then I'll know that path I took and know what how much braking ahead and all that coming together a muscle memory if you will and I'll start taking that route through that corner and get better times that way and I'm not actually feeling anything as far as the differences here you feel it if I take a corner sharper then I normally do then I feel that the the sway will actually move me over more than the other and they'll give me that that sense of I'm really on the edge I'm hanging on the edge here of losing my grip in the corner so I'm actually feeling it now though so this is something that I wasn't expecting as far as how intuitive it was to counter those actions and be able to pick your way through the corner entry mid corner and corner exit by feel instead of by eyesight and by what way I felt the steering wheel and yeah it's just one of those things that it all comes together and just delivers a a really good experience I've had five or six people in this and all of them agree that it's just something on the next level as far as what you experienced in what the car is doing now they're not it's all perfect here and I know you guys don't think it is there is some some sway but it's a it's a longitudinal sway or a flex if you will and I'm going to show you another shot here and this is the side shot that I had and under braking you see how it's moving there back and forth under really hard bumps or or breaking or shifts you can see the chest is actually moving forward so because we have this surge factor here right there the chance that actually is shifting all its weight onto the front motion bar and that's 500 pounds so that's gonna actually twist that front motion bar in a torsional direction that you know the twisting motion causes a little bit of softness or flex than that and at the end of the day I suppose it's best to have some some a little bit of give there than it is being stiff and break kind of like the you know the the tree limb that bends instead of stay stiff and then breaks when the wind blows it too hard so that's one of the things I guess the analogy we can use here as we're watching this side shot of what's going on but other than that you can see that it's very stiff as far as the 4080 profile here it's it's handling all that just just as good as it possibly can as far as I can see here as much time as I spend looking at this stuff I'm gonna also give you another shot of the actual rear there we go and this has had four different cameras set up so all this is the same time real time what we were seeing before and this gives you you can see how it's tilting forward there as we get a little bit of pitch under braking but most of the braking obviously is felt in the Serge element and again you can see when I when we're moving back and forth here that yeah there's really no flex in that in the profile or the bracket or the cups on there everything is doing its job quite well here and again I'm nitpicking here with the softness because of the weight transfer forward and backwards when the surge is working or if we're under braking in a bumpy bumpy straight it everything just shifts under braking as you might imagine the weight transfer like a real car does so we're trying to get real and yes though that's really what's happening here but it's an overall experience it really doesn't affect anything you know like I said if if it gave me a couple of tenths better than I've done before ever then I'll have to say that this is a successful solution in a winter and yeah I mean it's just one of those things that you have to be in to really see what the effects are and like I said we're gonna do a little crash here I think in a second so let me see if I can get back to that and I want to do a side here there we go yeah see how it movies we're not crashed alright so that was a driving I'm gonna show some actually other guys driving too and we'll see what's going on while they're driving it but yeah that was me driving it in just a little explanation there so we'll get to the other people that got in here and talk about that next our first driver is going to be Brian and he's the same weight that I am about a hundred fifty-pound or so so I was curious to see how it would actually act with him in it because it'll be about the same as with me in it and it's one thing to watch this on video as you guys are probably imagine it's another thing to be there in the real world real life and watch what's going on and yeah it's it's more the same that we saw in the first segment of the driving segments of this video and yeah it's just it's just coming together so well here it again it's hard to explain of course Brian thought this was you know the best thing ever because he's not he's never even been in a motion platform at all and what's also surprised me a little bit that he didn't have any problems with getting motion sickness or anything like that he has been simracing but in a static platform or a cop hit so this is the first time in emotion and he did really well and I think that might be a little bit of a testament to the movement that this chassis is making the 6dof that he's feeling coming in everywhere that it's it's more of a natural feeling so it didn't get him feeling like this just doesn't feel right and he's gonna crash here so nothing has got a lot of motion and as you saw right there this this platform definitely can move a lot yeah so we'll get on to the next driver now next up is Jonathon and he's 175 pounds I want you to watch this under the braking here for the hairpin and watch the chassis what it does see a little bit of bounce there back and forth under heavy braking that's because of the weight shift loaded up that front bar in a torsional like twist and then it pushed back as it untwisted and then twisted again and because we got some bumps coming into that that actual hairpin right there under braking and you see when you did braking there you didn't see it because it's a smooth braking area there so only if there's under bumps and you're under braking it seems to me this is when this is going on now I talked to Jonathan about that and we actually watched this video and he said you know I couldn't tell the difference he said with all this things going on all everything that my body was feeling in the car it just felt like a natural natural experience to him and again like I said before I think that's the testament to these systems able to be being able rather to work together so well and I think it surprised everyone including this actual project here so yeah now Jonathan weights 175 pounds and it looks like this platform is having no issues with that weight so this is Nathan he's a hundred and eighty-five pounds so it's curious to see what's going on with the chassis when he's in it now he loses control here over corrects and you can see how the yaw works very quickly here you see how fast that was that really was not slow at all and other y'all assistance I've been in we're a lot slower than that now he's just doing some spin outs and some donuts and seeing how that we're seeing how the chassis reacts to that putting a little abuse on it if you will that normally we obviously we wouldn't be doing but yeah you can see how that corrects the Yas working really really great here and this is a good example as well I'm going to show you this segment with him driving it now 185 pounds he's obviously you know 35 pounds heavier then I am so I was curious to see how it acted with him in it and it seemed even when we pushed it a little hard there with the you know doing donuts or whatever that it responded quite well and yeah no real issues there and we'll still see in this segment under hard braking at that hairpin we should see some forward movement when we get to that point and he's going through the esses now after the straight so yeah once we get there well we'll take a little look and see how it's behaving but otherwise you can see that how this chassis does great weight transfer it just you know just all comes together like I said before and just gives you that great feeling of and watch this here on the braking see that the same kind of shake but it didn't look like any more shake than with Jonathan and he's you know he's ten pounds heavier than Jonathan is so we're still doing the same thing in that section that hairpin with the the braking because of the bumps in that braking section and there's the other there would be a smoother section here when he comes up yeah see how it doesn't do it here because it's a smooth piece of road there when you're under braking and that's why I didn't do it there so yeah again just another example of what this system is capable of I like this the traction plus system here from next-level racing it has the speed and even with exceeding its weight capacity we're still getting some good speed and some good you know action all around in all 6dof so yep again nothing really to complain about here the system just works and it works I think better than I expected and I gotta admit my expectation levels were a little low going into this because I wasn't sure how these two systems we mesh but you can see that yeah piece we're just having some fun with it now and yeah it's one of those things that you just don't know what's gonna happen until you do it and I think overall here it can't be you know you can't really fault too much on it and even with that that torsional flex we're getting under heavy braking with bumps in the in the road that it's something that translates to you is not totally out of arrears that it's kind of a natural thing if you had bumps and you were braking you would feel that that twitching of your chassis is it skipped under braking across those bumps anyway so yeah that's it for the drivers and I guess that's enough of the driver section you guys get the idea of what this platform or these two platforms combine to bring us the 6 DOF yeah you know the JCL v4 with the surge Indy Mach system is awesome in its own right as you guys know if you've watched the review on that one and then again here we have the excellent next level racing traction plus platform and yeah just marrying them together is is is exceeding my expectations and I'm pretty pleased about that so yeah we might as well just go ahead and get on to the final thoughts final thoughts on this 60 o F project result first I would like to thank the guys at next level racing for loaning me their excellent traction plus platform and letting me experiment with it I also want to thank JCL racing for loaning me their some v4 chassis and allowing me to cut it down to the proper dimensions to get this simlab p1x cockpit mounted to it you know it's a pleasure to work with manufacturers focused on pushing the envelope in developing some racing motion systems to achieve the result you see in this video I did have a lot of work to do now I had to fabricate a custom bracket system to get the JCL v4 chassis mounted to the trucks traction plus platform it was an involved process to end up with the brackets you see here and I have included segments in this video for those interested on just how I got that done then I needed to get the v4 chassis narrowed down from the OEM width of 780 millimetres to the P 1 X's width of 580 millimeters which required a complete disassembly and reassembly of the v4 chassis but once both of these challenges had been met I think the resulting motion experience was well worth it now it was a matter of getting two different platforms to work together and to be truthful I have to admit I was a bit worried that they wouldn't work together but as it turns out they work together quite well and deliver a very believable 6 DOF simracing experience now I had a total of five different drivers over to test the system some who had their own motion setups at home every one of them were very impressed with the driving experience now with an official weight limit of 518 pounds or 235 kilos I was concerned about how the next level Racing's traction Plus platform would handle the heavier drivers I weigh 150 pounds or 68 kilos with me in the seat the total weight of the traction + unit was around 500 pounds I had drivers at 175 pounds and 185 pounds that tested the rig and I saw no obvious segregation in the motion of the traction + platform now of course this does not speak to the long term use at these levels of weights that did exceed the manufacturer's stated weight limits you know at the end of the day I want to have to call this build a good result now it's not fect but the small imperfections mentioned in this video did not seem to matter much when you are in the cop hit and experiencing all six degrees of freedom or do F's at racing speeds for the first time I and the other drivers who were able to come by in test this at the srg were able to navigate a racing circuit by feel instead of only muscle memory it's one of those things that I wish everyone who is a sim racing enthusiast could have a go at and actually building this platform in the srg has given me more hope that someday a true 6dof driving experience will be more accessible to all of us I'm Barry Rowland thanks again for watching the sim racing garage channel don't forget to hit the subscribe button and if you would like to help support what I do here at the srg visit my website at sim racing garage calm

Channel: Sim Racing Garage

Views: 84,409

Keywords: sim racing, racing, assetto corsa, inside sim racing, iracing, sim racing girl, sim racing cockpit, gaming, fanatec, simulator, online racing, racing simulator, simracing, forza, rfactor, thrustmaster, racing wheel, simulation, logitech, vr, f1, gran turismo, shifter, simxperience, HPP, Heusinkveld, Sim Lab, Logitech, racing pedals, motion simulator, PS4, XBOX, Xero Play, computer racing, IMSA, WEC, gamer, nascar, scca, triple monitor, oculus, racing seat, sparco, momo, D-BOX, bodnar

Id: AzOBXu9gRtc

Length: 76min 35sec (4595 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 03 2019