Botvinnik vs. Tal | World Championship 1960 - GM Ben Finegold - 2015.10.08

World Championship match class so I guess at some point they'll have to have a different class because there's a finite number of rope championship matches right so I looked at the list and strangely my kiss was on the list but it was the wrong list it was the hollow notes list but then I found the chest list and I decided to talk about Vedic 1960 the first match and I have a few websites we can peruse before we look at some of the games now as most of you know bad Vinick never won a match where he was the world champion never so he was the world champion he lost her drew and then when he lost he would get the the rematch so the other guy was the world champion then he'd win this went on for about seven matches and then he played petroawski on and that was the end of that then he just lost and then he retired then he said how great he was okay so anyway his first match with tall tall one second match Bob Vinick won of course we look at the tall maps that's all won but the funny thing about it is I've read a lot of chess stuff we not now years ago and there's lots of excuses if you want to be a good chess player you have a good excuse otherwise you know so the excuse given for tall white all got crushed in the rematch was that he was sick because he was always sick so he was always sick it's true he would often go to the hospital during tournaments often he was born sick sort of like by missing the joke up here who was born sick here you do oh sure oh sure yeah there you go come on man take me to church all right so anyway it's always born sick and he had he was the claw hope it's the right hand these fingers were together she had like three fingers on one hand and he always smoked awake asleep or he smoked yes okay so he died young and there are pictures of Saul on the internet where it looks like he's about 107 and he's like 50 yeah he didn't look good now went all wasn't sick oh he always was man he played good now Botvinnik his excuse was that you know he didn't play well the first match the second match Bob but he plays like Botvinnik and then he just tore through tall I don't know they're probably about the same strength they both want all their games all the time so they were going to top they were always top three or four in the world when they were good now one thing taunted the Bhavna didn't do it Saul became world champion in 1960 1979 I visited Montreal with my family to watch Montreal 79 it seemed like a good idea and tall tied for first with Karpov with 10 out of 14 and tall was the highest rated player in the world that I think and he was not as young as he was in 1960 so it's always pretty good and my last time that I actually I saw it all after that but the last victory of tall in 1988 I was at the World Chess Festival in Saint John New Brunswick like most of you have been and it was cold it was February it was cold how was it cold like I can I'm sort of cold now and that was 1988 and I still can feel it anyway they had a world blitz championship and everybody played Karpov played Kasparov played those are the weak players ok there was a knock out the final match was tall Vogon young and tall won every game in the final finals and Karpov and Kasparov knocked out Karpov played Shirazi in the first turn that was hilarious little great pairing because sparring got knocked out by kyo georgiev Walter brown was there well everybody says they're great until they play people were better than them Americans who like to say they're great Walter brown yes sir Sir why max de loogie they're good blitz pliers but greats like Fischer that's that's great tall Anand went on was good not now obviously not now yeah he's great anyway Sarah Wan played a match with Karpov here a couple years ago then in the Blitz portion I did Sarah why do I forgot he he also forgot and Karpov was like 300 years old and he's he took 300 pieces ya know Karpov was a good blitz player cuz Farah was a good blitz player Fischer was yeah right then they play blitz in it yeah okay so anyway if you read the website here chess Gamescom they have an article why do know they had articles on this match and they said tall was waiting the candidates and he was winning there's all knows and he was winning the Soviet championship and boffin is world champion so it seemed like a good match and tall just crushed him and there's the if you could see the bottom there twelve and a half eight and a half tall was always in the lead he was up three games to zero lost two in a row and then he won three more so six wins to two and 21 games seems like that would be the better player until they played again and he wasn't a better player okay and I guess if I had to like pick which excuse I like better I mean it's all being in the hospital every day I would guess if he wasn't in the hospital he was just better but now some people think he was an unsound player those people are probably right and but people couldn't prove it so okay so that was a nice article now Tom wrote a book on this match tall by Vinick by tall C and it got really good reviews five stars five those are the bad reviews you should see the good reviews yeah you could buy it on Amazon see you could put on your Kindle okay and yeah anyway it was a great match and secured tall's place in history as one of the greatest players ever and back in the 60s the Soviet Union had some good limbic teams all world champions on every board and those were the weak players yeah they didn't want to let Botvinnik on the team you know you're no good he's like I'm the world champion and the hair like all right he has a good argument yeah I mean they have Petrosian and tall and Cara's and Smith Slav and Spassky those are some good players I mean so and then Gallery was beating carpa Fischer every game so I gallery was pretty good too so yeah they so those teams somehow won won the Olympiad I don't get it anyway okay so let's let's get to the get to the the board here well that didn't do it all right there we go now the first game I want to look at it has no chess value but it's very funny that's more important okay and this is the game I remember as a kid when I was a kid I was reading all these books you know San Antonio 72 and then all the tall books all his World Championship matches and New York 1924 I'm sure you know that book really well okay and this game stuck out at me because it's always thinking if I play this move they're going to see what a terrible player I am he was thinking that while he was playing the game we played it anyway okay and it was a Carol Kahn which I read it was a Carol card I guess and tall played the two knights okay there's the two knights okay Bishop to g4 which is the main move now now Bob the Nikki pledge opening pretty well I'll give him that and give little gameplay terrible no okay and after h3 you can either play Bishop h5 or Bishop takes f3 this should be h5 is a very long complicated tactical line probably not a good idea against all so he took on f3 and you guys are confused why I'm pausing and what did he play would I ask you if that's what he played yeah there you go yeah G takes f 3 oh yeah wait didn't you know how to play chess and he won this match too he's the world champion well I mean I think if Liam was annotating to him he would say just kidding hey G I'm just kidding Queen f3 nobody plays GF 3 before after this game but he wanted to get Bhavana god of his prep and like throw him off sometimes like for example I've played a list of Melek Hina twice and I still have zero first came I was +4 that wasn't enough after the games told me how bad I played and then I was like but I was winning anyway second game she made a bad move on move three or four and with white and I was like I'm going to show her and then every move I made was terrible I lost maybe that's what Saul was thinking he was thinking of my game with Malik Kenan hadn't happened yet you know tall was thinking I'll play GF 3 and Bosman toe that move and I mean I it's just terrible I can't I mean I can't but I mean it's funny that he played it knew how terrible even he knows it's terrible he knows what's up so it's sort of funny that he played it okay so yeah usually don't Bluff in chess because it's sort of a perfect information game you can see the board then what sometimes you do okay so II six solid d4 and okay double pawns in the center I mean he four is protected so if the Queen had taken black would be taking on e4 now getting rid of the e4 pawn and White's ready to replace it sort of like if you were dyslexic and we're playing in ENSO Indian you know or you're one of the typical players of the chess club and you couldn't tell the difference you know you sometimes you have doubled C pawns and you're defending your Center and they've doubled F ones okay and it's sort of similar I guess to the Bronstein Larsen variation of the caro-kann where you play GF you what what yeah okay so I don't know it looks like it's a chest position now sort of boring yeah not really I mean it's sort of a BA fictitious in at all position seems like black has a better pawn structure white has two bishops always play King b1 yeah this isn't like my earlier election they both Castle queenside yes IV white had nothing this game and was lucky to draw I guess and then both sides had Perpetual will check so that's good okay and they agreed to a draw because perpetual check although I think you know black was better that game for most of the game and white probably got lucky to draw but that came I remember as a kid and I was like gf3 I'm like talk about some witty stuff about it like yeah I know this is bad but it's not as bad as you think and still nobody plays it so and it sort of reminds me of you know the fish are busy our game which I'm sure you're all aware of where he plays nine h3 instead of Knight f3 and the two nights and then you know he's like yeah it's okay it's fine it said it was good so sometimes you just get your phone off in the opening it's sort of funny to do when you're ahead of the match and you're playing for the role championship to play sort of crazy like that but okay now when I look at the games for the World Championship and it stopped I'd Vinick I want to see a Kings Indian where it's all was black and since I know my EC Oh codes this looks like one okay it's all had the black pieces it's better be this better be a Kings Indian come on play d4 okay there you go good now against the Kings Indian really even players today play it but bhavan ik like to play g3 Bishop g2 which was played this game and a lot of players nowadays when they're playing the Kings Indian and they're faced with the system instead of playing d6 they'll play 6 and d5 and try to equalize and some kind of neo grünfeld but okay this is tall's not doing that toss playing the Kings Indian one of the reasons tall was so beloved by everybody especially Julian is he played to win with both collars and he played four interesting positions he never really played the safe move so he thought if he understood the position and cannot calculate his opponent then that's what he should do and a lot of people especially nowadays I think less of the 60s and 70s are very results and rating oriented which is not good okay so what happens is you got the crazy parents which is all the parents and they have their kid play chess and they want their kid to be higher than the other kids and if they're not then they're very upset why is my kid 1300 and that kids 13 20 so we got to get them high rated okay so they do anything to get their rating up and if you can draw a higher rated player and be lower rated players and get chess lessons and play higher rated players your rate will go up and then the parent is proud and then when you're older and your parent doesn't necessarily tell you what to do anymore then you have to get I am in GM norms I have to be an I am now I can't wait a year I'm going to play in 37 round robins and get three norms then had to be a GM and so people are very result oriented now if they're not an IM by the age of twelve then a GM a age of thirteen you're finished okay now these days they didn't really do that there weren't a lot of GM's fewer GM you were like top ten in the world so a lot of players wanted to actually like play well and win like Fisher and tall so they played well when they won and they weren't thinking if I get plus three I'll win the tournament man Fisher Hall didn't think that they were like I get plus twelve in this thirteen round event well that's that's good score okay so they were playing to win every game sort of like Americans do in these swiss a--'s like the million are open right now and you got to win a lot of games so the best american players like nakamura and so then they win a lot of games because you're going to win a lot of games so it's nice that in some round robins like the Sinquefield cup you know the players are actually playing for a win and not hoping to get +1 now a funny aside they were explaining after the event that carlson had a terrible tournament and that nakamura finished great and tied for a second but they got the same score anyway but yeah so somehow it was a great event for one and terrible for the other they wanted to in the world I don't get it okay so so tall's like I'm playing the best moves I'm playing to when I'm playing interesting chess and more important than playing the best moves because anybody can do that is I'm trying to make my opponent play badly so if I get positions they don't understand they'll play badly and I'll play well okay that's a good mix nowadays a lot of the top players I won't mention any names like I need Gary they'll play twenty or thirty moves of theory and then if you do a draw okay and then they get one win and a draws thinking five rating points okay I can't imagine tall you know in his 20s for example having a tournament with 80 or 90% draws I can't imagine on each Gary not having any or 90% draws like imagine tiny security played in the Sinquefield cup and had one draw no he's a good player I'm just saying he could have like plus one but he can't do that he doesn't do that he plays on two musafir and they agree to a draw okay so that's why it's a little bit more fun to look at games that were played a long time ago when they didn't play 30 Musa theory and it's also good to look at games where the players aren't quite as good although not Wednesday nights bad but and there's there's some there's some happy medium somewhere okay okay because I a lot on Wednesday nights that's that's my crying night um there was a game that was so bad I did believe I just said this didn't happen there people that you would believe it happened I still didn't believe it yeah like whoever the worst of the worst we're worse than that yeah and like I like these rooms didn't happen I know they didn't that's how bad they were yeah anyway we're to film here anyway so what you'd like is some happy medium where the players are both trying to win and they don't play 35 moves of prep and agree to a draw and that's why matches that were played in the 30s 40s 50s 60s when Fischer was playing when Kasparov was playing when Murphy was playing these games are really interesting they're the games are interesting now for the most part but sometimes they're not okay then again I don't want to be you know talking about a tournament where 80% of the games were draws it doesn't mean the players are playing better now they are but a lot of it has to do with the players attitudes okay and luckily tall had the right attitude okay Knight bg7 and even nowadays if there's a match with the top five players in the world and leave just pick two of them and it's a world championship match they're all going to be happy when they draw a black like if Carlson's black against the non it's a draw he's like great now I get why it and I'm okay I mean and that's not what happened you know 60 70 80 90 years ago they play for a win Fisher Fisher wasn't Fisher wasn't playing for a draw with black again Spassky okay but nowadays it would be like unheard of if they didn't if they weren't happy with the draw they'd be like wow I drew with black in ten moves all right I get white so okay let's see if things are different all right okay so castles be v e4 this is still theory today a lot of people today are playing nine to c6 and they're not playing e5 and they're playing some other crazy variations panel variation what's that yeah he said yeah okay but this is ill this is a long time ago when they're playing fun they just play d5 okay yeah nowadays a lot of people think this is too passive for black but generally what happens is some kind of spring like nothing happens nothing happens nothing happens like the movie I always make fun of what is the movie exactly pay attention in class next time and then all of a sudden things happen and you're like wait nothing happened 421 was why don't they calculate now so blacks a bit passive because of his pieces over here yeah but they'll get out later okay so d5 the Depot is under some pressure takes takes right c5 91 typical typical Botvinnik okay so Bob - could the maneuver is night around and while he defends the e4 pawn okay you incorrect ones I need one-on-ones on detail I don't think it's going to stay on either square think when you played 92 you were going to keep it there now were you yeah that's what I thought you were going to do well the I D one defends d3 more and probably on c4 and Queen a6 your knight has to do something I don't think there's anything wrong with Knight d2 unless 93 is good but I'm too old for that but in Mutsu old maybe just 93 is good okay so now you won no more 93 93 politics happy now for the lower rated players which is all of you and all of you at home you guys don't like this as much as the high rated players do higher rated players love having upon on d5 then they have what's called space and their opponent can do anything so Bob pretty happy and the night on c5 was a pretty good night and now it's not there the knight on f6 yeah where's the not f6 going Julian yeah I don't know either the bishop on g7 where's that going no so yeah so white has a lot of space and White's going to slowly do this magnus carlsen style but marvin exile okay and what black doesn't really have compensation for this space blacks going to play for tricks but tall is going to play for tricks so there's me a lot of tricks okay so Rick c8 taking the C file now in a lot of Kings Indians white plays on the Queen side black plays for me as in for example Wesley so Hikaru Nakamura from last month and then when black wins it's really cool and when white wins white gets like three Queens this is the opposite Black's got nothing on the Kings side but black has a queen on b6 black has an open C file black's bishop on d7 is controlling the Queen side so blacks to the plan the Queen side okay Rigby one question you can play 90 in an f5 but I don't see how you're going to attack me you know sometimes you play knight h5 and Queen g5 and h5h we I do any of that I think a lot of times in the g3 Kings Indian that's just not happening you're just you're not getting there's no checkmating attack and since the Queen's I'm b6 there's no reason why white can't plan the Kings side also King h2 f4 or just take the pawn on f5 and then blockade and if black did play 98 and f5 I'm not thrilled with his night on e8 so I would have to probably go back to b6 yeah perhaps 6 I mean yeah that's taking a long time I'll play Bishop e3 and you'll be like no good and that's another plan and you would think that would be the kind of plan that tall wood use and in these kinds of games in the g3 Kings Indian tall did something I like quite a bit he didn't do nothing ok that's always my recommendation of my students and then eventually he did something when you were lulled to sleep so obviously anybody can move the night and play f5 but he'd move around and around and around then he would do something active and you'd be like what you can do anything exit 420 emilie's what are you doing ok so I like that style of playing also waiting and so Bhavana gets in time trouble ok rubber b1 very safe move he wants to play Bishop e3 but after queen's eggs b2 the knight on c3 is hanging so rugby one first see now you're happy you get to play now h5 and f5 Bishop e3 queen goes to b4 that's a tall move I would go to DA guys I'd be afraid Queen goes to e2 and the problem is if black plays f5 which he probably played then when I take it it's hard to take back your nights hanging g4 forks you so Queens who sort of against that hits the night okay rook c4 that's a tall move rook c1 Rick c8 so yeah black is realizing the center is closed and a lot of times where I have black and queen pawn openings I'll also close the center and then my opponents like why is the center closed this I'm not I don't play these positions then you maneuver on both sides of the board and try to gain an advantage and White has an advantage in space in the center but Saul's done a good job of taking the C file and if he doesn't lose his Queen he's sitting pretty okay it's to paraphrase to super paraphrase chief Wiggum wow that was a paraphrase okay so King h2 which does nothing so I like it f5 so you like it each takes f5 so I like it which rule does that follow Julian he takes out five it's a very specific rule no well I always play King bee ones not happening here all right now G takes f five is risky because of Queen takes Knight so he didn't do that okay Bishop takes and the rib goes to a-1 and eventually Y might play G for win apiece hey when that happens so Knight f4 before you go into piece you sack of peas okay and you can argue that tall could calculate a million moves ahead he figured everything out but I think a lot of his calculation was based on justification of based on the position for example black has a very active position his rooks are better than White's rooks his Queens better than whites Queen bishop on f5 is pretty good so it makes sense to continue to go forward and it's likely to sacrifice will work and if white doesn't accept the sacrifice you have I mean the Knights going to g3 if taking the bishop on g2 okay so we have to take yeah now it's hard to play Wyatt I guess if Bishop d2 b2 is hanging but I mean that's what I would do hey okay cool I play like I play like the guy who was alright and queen bee - and so I was right on all accounts normally when you play Queen beat sue in any position in chess when you're black the guy plays rugby one but there's a bishop on f5 so now it's hard to play rugby one because it's hanging on the other hand this Knights attacked so many times I can't count that I yeah so that's a lot of attacking going on yeah so somehow black got very active on both sides of the board and he's pushing Botvinnik around it wasn't easy to push around no wonder they would pull my own Olympic team terrible now he did well you know who did even better than Bhavik the Olympiad and those Olympiads was was it was Petrosian and that guy G he was getting like like when he playing regular turn to see if like 15 draws but then the Olympiad then he would beat everybody and he was like cause a gold medal okay so rugby won anyway because I don't know what else to do your Knights hanging your bishops Bend okay f3 breaking my rule f3 that's called no yeah but no yeah does not deflection but decoy and deflection and move the defender and a fork it's every it's everything well the thing is the Queen is defending the bishop so if the Queen takes on f3 it's not defending the bishop and I want to open this diagonal to White's King and open this rank for the rook yeah everything rook takes Queen well obviously Queen takes Queen takes is just blacks winning Bishop takes what's what's his what's his angle I mean looks terrible for white but just terrible and then play then play Queen c2 that's just terrible I mean it's just terrible I mean every piece is hanging okay so he played rook takes Queen pawn takes Queen blacks down a piece but that knight on c3 doesn't look too good Lonnie - looks pretty good okay rugby three defending is Knight rook d4 attacking the bishop that's defending the knight Bishop defends everything Bishop e5 check the ship f4 man it's tough for white White's up a piece but his pieces aren't - good night take c2 that gets rid of the pawn Knight takes and what if he takes these just down material yeah always play Bishop f1 and black got his piece back and he's still very active and obviously boffin ik is in terrible time trouble f4 looks terrible yeah the two bishops are too strong that's pretty nice tricked by Botvinnik Bishop takes Knight rook III check drawing chances well if you draw he might probably not d5 Bishop h4 check yeah okay man time to resign now he resigned I thought you resigned earlier but yeah that so that was a typical tall type of win Kings Indian complications and when Bhavana gets in time trouble he falls apart and again for certain players like Nakamura and who rad you live as he put the Kings in he's the only one right yeah the Kings Indian the computer says it's bad then you win well sometimes you lose but that means sometimes you lose when you play chess but that's okay and when you get games like this where black is very active black sacrificing material and whites basically falling apart on both sides of the board you get to see what a great player tall was I mean the rematch wasn't so good these things happen okay lots of drawers of course there's a very long wind which is reminding me of the queen of pawning they had I don't know if this is the game when I was a kid there were certain games I remembered ok so here's another tall one this time he's white and again tall was known for a wild crazy attacking chest but even though players are known for certain ways of playing that doesn't mean they always play that way again that's something lower rated players have an issue with is they're usually very dog man and the better you got a chest the last dogmatic you are okay like Julian you know make some move in resins too dogmatic okay and you can't move or reason I can't do either one you're good play like Chris like you don't do nothing you sit there in the game end somehow so even though certain players when you think of them let's say Karpov you think boring technical skill but I'll show you checkmating a taxi head like against course nine the dragon in 73 you agree 74 it was one of them we don't know I'm talking about I've lectured on that game and also like Petrosian who was known as a boring player had brilliant Queen sacrifices so tall who's usually playing e4 and playing sharp Sicilians if possible is playing Knight f3 g3 which is what people play now but I mean you could play any what you want okay and you can do whatever you want yeah b3 94 and it will play this way now okay we're transposing into some funny Grunfeld I think I've actually had white in this position I mean black I think if I'm really and I agreed to a draw we tied for first it was a weekend tournament another one's we need it well this was born yet okay house black okay so this looks more like a Banach position than a tall position and in World Championship matches usually the players are about the same strength so sometimes a player has a certain style he prefers so like in the last game in the King's Indian Bhavana got his space advantage tall got an attack on both wings and then sacked apiece and ended up out calculating him in the early endgame this seems like a real Botvinnik position well there's not going to be a lot of tactics it'll be a slow positional game and yet tall was the one who outlasted them these positions are very hard to play for black black in these positions a lot you just sit around don't do anything which I like to do you don't do nothing when you do something that's wrong so look who did something right he didn't play Queen b8 probably as a pawn or something so he took this and you never want to do that unless you have some great tactical justification because you're giving away the center blacks tactical justification usually be something like c5 but with Bishop takes b7 coming I don't believe it so I don't I don't believe any of this I believe nothing yeah I mean this is just good for white white has the center to bishops Botvinnik Botvinnik Botvinnik how could you do that the a bishop c1 now we're playing chess well now Bishop f4 Bishop g5 the next move Wow Queen II hate if you guys get better at chess you'll play who's like Queen a no you're better than me then how would I know yeah well he was worried that Bishop f4 would pin his Queen Nigel's Queen but I'm still not playing Queen a it ok provoking a move you should never play never play f6 and I think this is especially true here because then I think the e6 pawn is a bit tender come on play about vidiq I dare you yeah i rikiei that's right ok Queen d2 yeah this is just how awful for black okay so a lot of times people don't like to lose slowly where they have no play so they lash out so obviously White has a better Center to pawns in the center why does the two bishops black's queen is on a 8 black can't put a rook on d8 if I was a betting man that you showed me this game if I was a betting man and you showed me this game and you said this is tall Botvinnik what colors were they this is this is Bob predict all for sure this is pure Bhavana with White Knight f3 g3 slow to bishops better center but it's it's top out Vinick so it's amazing how sometimes the rules are reversed occasionally Karpov would check make is far off just usually usually not usually Kasparov would have the attack okay so f5 and again that seems more like a tall move but Bothell neglect like to play the Dutch very strange for world champion okay Bishop age six Queen and Bishop better than Queen at night nice blacks Kings a little iffy okay now we're going to go to work on the e pawn now I was making fun of the Knights players and rightfully so you read Annie yep and he's like but I was playing the only me alone and I played over I just say not sated the games today tell what I did yeah and there was one game I know this was a given one of my students he played f5 and a similar pawn structure and the guy rerouted his Bishop to b3 yeah then that was it as e six was was permanently weak as I've highlighted here the other guy played good all right so it's halls decided to attack the e pawn rook f7 so what happens on Queen takes do we play my favorite move yeah are you talking yeah because Queen and Bishop Queen at night it seems like White's pieces are all working this Knights working to defend that yeah okay so rookie f7 defense Queen d2 defending the d4 pawn always plug this ship f12 PI Bishop c4 of course always play he takes out five and it's always a good player yeah yeah this isn't good for block yeah the Queen of Bishop really crushed the Queen at night here as they usually do yeah that Knights not Emmeline the Knights going to stand c7 forever defending e6 and if the knight ever decides to come active the e6 isn't isn't looking so good Queen back to D - that's like Karpov chomsky 1992 when your openings yeah an e6 of the long run is not good okay you can't play Knight takes Queen because rook takes Queen check ah he moved towards the e6 pawn but didn't take it yeah blacks King isn't so good he defends the e6 pawn anyway a sevens hanging and a little nice little tactical trick that Julian would have played in one second looks like King h8 loses energy 7 losses what did he do because the game went a long time may he defends good what would you play because calling to play Queen d8 check no matter what you play all right Queen d8 check rip takes rook I guess ya say there was a queen of planning in this one of these matches and this game was really long so that might be this one so it was this game now what famous game does this remind you of yeah I'm kidding Fischer Spassky 1992 didn't see that coming Fischer was two pawns up with a queen upon any we could didn't win then I was like looks like I not play chess for twenty years that came wasn't in the movie yeah that was two pawn sacrifice all right so yeah so White's up two pawns he's having fun can't have more fun than being up two pawns and here there was a resignation yeah well two pawns up winning and checkmating is winning everything's winning yeah so that was a very bad Vinick like performance from tall but I mean that's what you get yeah now unfortunately occasionally Bobby Fischer was right okay it happens if you say a thousand things one or two of them are right so Fisher didn't like the fact that if you were headed a match and the match was limited you would draw than you win the match in like that he said this man should go at least a year okay which almost happened man you're not old us remember but Karpov cos far off the first match that's still going on I'll let you know when it's over I'm trying to figure which is going to be first that match will end or this sandwich over five and a half years ago from coffee charts all's gonna be ready it's tough tough to say exactly sure yeah how much quicker yeah anyway yeah if you lived in st. Louis you get that joke anyway so as the match ended it went draw draw and the match was over because it was the first to get twelve and a half points and once Pavlich was ahead by enough he could he could draw fact even though these games that he won near the end didn't he could have drawn them and he would won the match in 23 games okay seventy yeah well I think at that point he's up where Bhavana cast to win games 21 22 23 and 24 that's not going to happen like it's me it might but not a good name not I guess the guy who's beating you yeah so that's unfortunate but that's that's the nature of a match that's limited okay and it's again Tawes white and look what he's doing he's like let's make the game boring and this is actually very funny because a lot of people are like chess is dead look at all the drawers well when the players want to play like tall about Vinick then they play and then when tall is like hey it's Rob wins be the world championship then he can play like the guys do now okay draw it's like what are you going to do so this is why Petrosian in particular was a very tough World Championship opponent because that guy could draw so if you want a game you were in trouble on the other hand if he's playing in a round-robin with the 10 best players in the world he's not going to win and he did not win because he'd have two wins and nine draws that doesn't win although it does now but it didn't then and and when Petrosian played World Championship man she had to beat him and then somehow Fischer beat him every game four games in a row so okay anyway probably ba ba panic had sort of given up by this point and tall just play whatever the most boring simple trade everything like the would they play now yeah except this was to draw to win the World Championship now now to Magnus Carlson's credit we needed to draw to become the world champion for the first time he played for a win because he was better then he didn't win this better at position yeah okay black never going to win here he's going to lose her draw so Bob Vinick offered a draw and I was like alright I'm a world champion okay yeah but okay I mean blacks I mean black has to play for a win he plays the most passive boring trading everything opening see now Fischer was black orcas para or Carlsen or somebody who knows they have to win you're four in a row it's not going to be a Queen's Indian we trade everything you well maybe you're the world champion every day but this made in the world champion well that's one argument I think Carlson wouldn't take a draw here he'd be like wow I have a good position yeah like I can't have zero losing chances and I'm better yeah and Tom's like I'm the world champion time to go drinking and then he's like I lost the veil change if time to go drinking so yeah occasionally he was drinking he smoked more but it was close yeah close tough decision yeah so anyway this match was great because it's all this reminds me of basically Kasparov Karpov their first match with the style class except man Kart you weren't alive man Karpov showed him after nine games it was four to zero after 29 games it was five to zero and then that was it but I mean yeah he I mean in this match Bob verdict didn't show his strategical mastery was better than tall's tactics second man she did and with Karpov because part of it was the opposite Karpov showed his positional mastery was better than Kaspar his tactics and after second mansion on it was either even or orcas para gotta buy a point or two that's that's that's correct and you would think since it's always like five years old here he would get better it's always the younger player but it's all got crushed the second manager is destroyed like sort of the same as this match and this clash of styles I think makes a good match where one guys a better strategical player like Karpov was to Kasparov and Kasparov in taller better tactician z' and you get like you get to see tall play G takes f three and you're like what and you get to see Kings Indians and when you have unfortunately for this you guys when you have Carlson and nog you don't see that you see like I'm slightly better no I am and then draw draw draw Carlson's better jockey Constance better and then he wins 2 to 0 with a trois ok but here you see fewer draws and some of the draws for example just because you have them up here ok 72 moves 41 41 76 and only at the very end you know ok match is over yeah I mean they're they're playing a limited number of games and Fischer didn't like deaf issues like let's just play until somebody wins some games not just draw drugs on the world champion then unfortunately the arguments made against Fischer's plans are correct the way the players play now if you did that that match might never end I mean if you play first to win 10 games I mean the eighty-five match would still be going on I mean they have five games the three after 49 games I mean you can't you can't be playing like nine months and he's like yeah why not so I don't think spectators want to see nine months of two guys playing I could be one I don't want to see an anon play Carlsen for nine months yeah I want to see I want to see that yeah but but yeah I mean in my opinion the world championship managers now are way too short you know twenty thirty games okay not like ten games twelve games come on that's not even at sunny chess at all thirty games is a lot but you know there's some there's some happy medium I don't know what it is let's go get paid a million dollars for a match they can play for a month million dollars a month is okay it's a pain to pay cut but they'll take it yeah okay anyway so well for those of you showed up late which is some of you Bob McNair one of matches the world champion he always lost her drew and then he wouldn't rematch next until he played Petrosian just kept losing yeah and Bhavana played a lot of World Championship matches he played I don't know maybe he's seven or eight of them and he played Bronstein plates me Slav played Petrosian played tall and when you play so many World Championship matches that really gives you the advantage over the other guy who's just playing one and then when you beat him in their Eman she's done it Sevilla gets a beat them to benches hard to be bothered like to imagine she's pretty good right so the system is a very is very strange and has been for a long time and it's a little strange now because the World Cup which determines to people go to the candidates matches is like blitz chess like two games of slow chest that we it's like Ben Simon's running it actually true game match or then you play like 15-minute yeah come on so no the final match is usually some pretty good players Carlson and on those guys are pretty good yeah but no yeah in the final when you have cardiac and smooth ler they're not playing for who goes to the candidates exactly very suspicious

Channel: Saint Louis Chess Club

Views: 241,854

Keywords: Mikhail Botvinnik (Chess Player), World Chess Championship (Recurring Competition), Grandmaster, World Chess Championship 1960, Ben Finegold (Chess Player), Match

Id: IeeXKlAHhjk

Length: 50min 28sec (3028 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 12 2015