Bob Woodward on ‘The Trump Tapes’ we haven’t heard (Full Stream 10/31)

[Music] thank you [Music] nothing scares me if I was scared I wouldn't be doing an interview with you today I'd be under a table with my thumb in my mouth okay [Music] hello welcome to Washington Post Live I'm Leanne Caldwell I'm an anchor here at Washington Post Live and also co-author of the early 202 newsletter today we have such a fantastic program with legendary journalist Bob Woodward he's going to be talking today about his new book the release of the Trump tapes Bob thanks so much for joining us thank you and a reminder to our audience we want to hear from you so if you have any questions please tweet at us at post live and we will try to get to those now Bob You released hours of interviews that you did with former president Donald Trump and this was for your book these interviews were conducted for your previous book rage but you decided to release these interviews in full because they steal and seem so much different now even than when they did when you conducted those interviews for that book just a year or two ago so can you talk about what changed between now and then that made you think the public has to hear about this I went back and listened to them earlier this year with my wife Elsa and assistant Claire McMullen and we were just uh struck partic I mean all three of us by the the clarity and power of hearing Trump in his own voice uh he's like a hammer and uh in a in a very very distinctive way and so uh you know one of the things that's so interesting about journalism is we Labor uh it's like Madame curie's laboratory in many ways uh you've sift through material looking for something that might be meaningful and uh you work at it and work at it and frankly in listening to it and taking it to my Publishers Simon and Schuster was all clear we had to put this out because it sheds new light on uh Trump uh one of the there's a reviewer named Lloyd Green for the guardian who said the tapes are a passport to the Heart of Darkness I wish I'd come up with that idea and that phrase myself but it really is you are entering Trump's mind and world view in a way is not as clear at least to me on the printed page as hearing him well let's get some get some clips um since since then there's been a lot of controversy about Trump uh having classified documents at Mar-A-Lago I want to play a clip of you talking to Donald Trump where he actually is talking to you about some classified documents let's listen listen those letters now what I need you did look at them right and read them listen read them I memorized them about the fantasy film he says the next meeting is going to be a fantasy film which is nobody else has them okay I hope that stays nobody else has them but I want you to treat them with respect I haven't understand it and don't say I gave them to you okay okay but I think it's okay normally I wouldn't have give I wasn't going to give them to Bob you know would you make a photo set of them or something no I dictated them into a tape recorder really yeah because in my assistant would you surprised by them right yes but I never saw this there are 11 of them and it shows an evolving relationship of being tough and he wants to get along Bob I have so many questions just about this first he said don't say I gave them to you you know this was before we knew what we know now um what did you think first of all the fact that he gave you access to this well he was quite proud of this relationship with Kim Jong-un and he actually said to me at one point when I say the CIA says that Kim is stupid Trump says oh no no he's smart and I ask well why do you believe that and there is again this is the voice where he says only I know I'm the only one who knows and it is this self-confidence that of course traumatized his National Security team because he's going off building this relationship with one of the thugs of all time the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and he is uh I mean this was Kim has nuclear weapons he hides them he uh it does things with them in terms of concealment that really astonished the U.S intelligence community and the Secretary of Defense at the time James Mattis slept in his gym clothes because he was worried that Kim might set one of these off and Mattis would have to get up and decide whether to shoot down a missile that would be heading to the United States I mean this is one of the Hidden chapters Trump did it all on his own and I asked so what are you trying to do with Kim Get Him to the negotiating table and he says well no you know it's in state in state now leaders all of us have Instinct but you've got to filter it particularly if you're president in this uh very very dangerous situation so uh Trump uh when when he said don't tell anyone we agreed later on everything in these conversations is on the record um so it's almost an ego thing like he felt cool or good about the fact that he could build a relationship with authoritarian and that he had access to this that he was special is that where it's coming from well yes he he's president and he believes in his instincts and uh I mean this is this is the problem you you can't there's a lot of self in the presidency but you can't just do it yourself you've got to have other people giving advice and weighing the situation and Kim Jong-un very young inexperienced leader had these dangerous dangerous weapons and there were words of uh harshness between Trump and Kim Jong-un that we know about that were public and uh you know if there had been some sort of war or use of nuclear weapons it would have changed the world I mean we still see Kim his footsing around with his nuclear weapons and his missiles and testing very very dangerous and you've got to be careful well what is Trump trump is careless in that tape he also said that nobody else has them has seen these so we know now that Trump took doc classified documents home with him after the presidency do you since he showed this to you do you believe that no one else has seen some of these classified documents whether it's this or other things no no obviously there's an investigation going on again this is the carelessness of taking these documents which could have revealed since a sensitive information there's been reporting that they do we're gonna we're gonna have to see uh but again what is the job of the president I asked him once and he said oh it's to protect the people that's a very good answer and you find in this relationship with Kim the relationship with classified documents that he if you write he takes them home and puts them in the basement in the closet God knows where and on the coronavirus this is the matter in which he really Not only was uh can see concealing and denying what he knew but it really is if you go through the whole audiobook you see is National Security advisors warned him and uh he lied about it to me lied about it to the public and said oh yeah the virus is going to go away he got the kind of warning that from experts I mean imagine I I've I think I've covered 16 National Security advisors in my life going back to Henrik Kissinger never heard of someone coming in in that role and saying to the president like Robert O'Brien said that Trump this will be the biggest national security threat to your presidency Matt pottinger the deputy had been a Wall Street Journal reporter in China for seven years he knew the Chinese lied and he told this to Trump and he said pottinger said my expert contacts in China tell tell me this is going to be like the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic that killed 650 000 people in the United States we now know it's killed 1.1 million and but in these Trump tapes uh there's one person that Trump did not lie to about the coronavirus and that was his son can you talk a little bit about that and is that proof that Trump knew how deadly and major this covid was going to be well what happened on March 19th so this is six days after Trump has shut down the United States because of the explosion of the virus and Trump goes up to see his son Baron who's in age 13 and Baron and Trump tells me about this and says Barron says all of his friends in school everyone is talking about the virus what's going on Dad and Dad Donald Trump the president of the United States said to bear and well it came in from China the Chinese could have stopped it now I think no one could have stopped it but he could have it could have been contained and then six weeks later I learned and the reporting in detail is in the tapes learned from his National Security advisors Robert O'Brien and Matt pottinger that uh on January 28th you know two months before uh he has this conversation with Baron uh Trump is told exactly the danger Trump could have contained it by telling the truth he did not tell the truth and if you look at this to say to his son the Chinese could have stopped it but they didn't because and in that tape which is in in the package of uh Trump tapes Trump says well they kept it so secret what Trump did is kept it so secret and failed and after he got that warning a week later at the State of the Union Address the big moment for the president to tell Congress and the American public and the world what's important what's going on I mean just read that it's uh Trump getting up oh yeah we China has this virus and uh my uh you know president she's taking care of it we're working I mean a total a total Dodge a total lie and and this is not just an incidental lie this is the failure to be the president of the people in this country that he had responded when I quite frankly put it all together and it took me some time because I'm slow and tried to be careful on these things it's shocking listen to that what he told this son and then just as I discovered six weeks later intensive interviewing at the White House with O'Brien and pottinger what they had told the president two months earlier it is it is a level of Deceit and in my view when you put it all together as my wife Elsa says the you see the crime unfold right before you rise so you're saying that lives could have been saved but also would this could covid have been viewed through less of a political lens if he was more open and honest with the country yes I I think he was concerned always talking about his re-election and telling me in the summer now this is nine months of interviews while he's the sitting president he can call me anytime I can call him anytime extraordinary moment and he in July he says I asked him about this and about the virus again and he said oh we have it all under control under control I mean I just I said it's it's the opposite he said well I have 104 days he means to the election he thinks he's gonna be re-elected by denying the truth what did he did he think the top secret pdb that people weren't going to find out about it uh he encouraged his National Security advisors to talk to me really made them his agent on this as you can hear I'm exercised about this and uh this is the man who probably will run in 2024 for the same office which he corrupted more than Richard Nixon corrupted the presidency 50 years ago we are so close to an election eight days away from the midterms it's not 2024 yet Donald Trump has not yet announced that he's going to run but in these tapes it does reveal his view of how the Republican Party views him and how crucial he is let's play that can I ask a political question sure and that is looking at this through the lens of a reporter who wants to look at the whole story you've changed the Republican party you realize that 95 approval rating nobody's ever been at 80 you know Ronald Reagan was 87 here is this a movement no uh that I can't tell you I can tell you what do you think it's it's the party of strength and Common Sense both you know I I don't I don't say who's in here and I'll tell you what the air will have to be determined that's to be determined but but um I okay like as an example the Republican party has always been known for disloyalty to each other okay they always broke up I will say this and this isn't a threat because it's not a threat but if they went against me they all lose their election even if they lost five percent of my voters because nobody has a basis Bob we're seeing that play out in these mid s where people who are still denying the actual results of the 2020 election are could win their races up and down the ballot across the country from coast to coast um you know Trump knew his hold on the Republican party uh what does it mean for the Republican party and does it also mean that Trump is absolutely going to run again well my reporting shows he's told people I'm going to run I'm going to do it now again uh we're gonna have to see what that is but let if as you point out the midterm elections are eight days away Trump is not on the ballot officially but he is right there he is on the ballot now he's going to be out campaigning in the next week and uh what Iowa Pennsylvania going down to Florida to campaign uh he is a presence and where he says he's not threatening the Republicans uh if they go against him he is look what he does he has a 92 percent uh yeah success rate with his endorsements over I think the last three or four years so it it it's quite amazing he has more of a hold on the Republican party than Joe Biden has on the Democratic Party absolutely um and I would like you to compare your experience and your broad views of politics of this country what is happening now as far as democracy is concerned compared to what was happening with Nixon of course everyone knows your reporting helped uh lead to Nixon's downfall is what is happening now more severe do you worry about American democracy I worry about American democracy look what the January 6th house committee is proven in my view and I think the view of neutral people wait weighing the facts and the evidence there's a way down case that this uh was sedition on the part of Donald Trump but more important I I are as important to January 6th is Trump does not understand the res the presidency you've got a responsibility you have to protect the people you have to inform the people you have to care about the people and you can't walk away from this and when he was president I mean that this is a kind of a you know tryout period for years if he runs in his elected again he's gonna he knows where the levers of Power are he knows you better appoint people who are full-time absolute loyalists to the key White House positions And Cabinet positions he pointed a lot of people who were experts in independent and would not be pushed around by Trump uh during the first four years but I think he's learned that lesson and so we we're we're in a us we should be in a state of anxiety I say that what Trump did he put the presidency in moral Free Fall that it the whole idea of some responsibility it was all about him and when he when he says that in one of those tapes I I asked whether he gets some advice uh some assistance on a Law and Order speech he gave he literally says yeah I get some ideas but the ideas are mine Bob you want to know something everything is mine well everything is not his uh it should not be and this is the danger you you better understand the responsibilities that come with being president and you look at that record and you listen to these tapes and you see that he he just does not understand he he can't he is a prisoner of himself he is somebody who can't kind of uh it you know 104 days to the election wow 140 000 people have died in his country because of the Corona virus in part I'm sure all the experts say they this could have been contained if the information he had was disclosed at the time and they did not and this this is a moral crime you talk about I talk about the moral free fall uh in the Trump presidency it's it couldn't be more Vivid and you get through and it's a lot to listen to and you will see it you will see it in his own voice and you will see it proven I I want to ask you something a little off topic so given Trump's grip on the Republican Party something that I've thought about for a very long time is after January 6th it seems like there was a moment where the Republican Party could have left Trump behind but Kevin McCarthy went down to Mar-A-Lago and that picture was published of the two smiling and and grasping each other was that a pivotal moment would did that set Trump's place in the Republican Party even after January 6. well it's an important moment but it's it didn't decide the outcome look these people I've spent a lot of time talking to Republicans and privately is I'm sure you know my former colleague Carl Bernstein did a great piece on CNN about this saying that all these people who saved there for Trump publicly in private know who he is and joke about him and uh but boy when he gets up there he calls the tune and he leads these people it's it's a shame for the Republican party they don't have the backbone that the Republican Party had almost 50 years ago in 1974 when the Republic and the moral leader the conscience of the Republican Party Senator Barry Goldwater went to Nixon and Nixon knew he was going to be impeached in the house how will it come out in the Senate and Goldwater in the Oval Office stared down President Nixon and said Mr President I counted and you have only five votes two in in the senate for a senate trial and one of them is not mine the next day Nixon announced that he was resigning that was the power of the Republican party to stand up because they listened to these tapes and seen the criminality and said we are not going to have it we are not going to tolerate it and Nixon voluntarily quit yeah yeah so given the status of American politics right now um there's a lot of layers here you have you know the obsession and the grip that Donald Trump has on the Republican party you have the election denialism you also have a lot of disinformation as well as political violence we saw that over the weekend with the attack on Paul Pelosi the husband of house Speaker Nancy Pelosi you know is Trump to blame for some of for this for an escalation of political rhetoric that has that has resulted in violence well he he look he's contributed to the climate of violence play some of the uh Clips where he's up there at his rallies urging people to uh hit someone and take them out I mean it's it's shocking and uh so but you can't say he caused this particular attack uh I find it very instructive if somebody said he has laryngitis on the issue of Paul Pelosi and he hasn't said anything yet I mean an abhorrent act uh and you would you would think uh there would be condemnation across the board and Trump is silent again this is the Silence of Donald Trump we saw when he's up sitting on the bed with his son Baron saying you know the Chinese could have stopped it when it turns out Donald Trump could have stopped no one's going to stop it but contain it just simply by being honest and telling the public the warn about the warning he had received one of the tragic moments in American history Bob I want to end on a little bit of a lighter note um so profound but does Trump still call you no he he has not called me uh and uh he's not happy I put out these tapes uh he's saying that actually he owns them uh we agreed everything's on the record uh the whole idea here is there's no Corner cutting in these interviews a lot of people have said oh you put that in you put you when my wife Elsa said that I was telling Trump what to do and shouting at him about what experts told me he should do the virus that's in there so there's no Corner cutting and of course Trump Cuts Corners all the time but he did agree this has got to be on the record this is the full story of uh this nine you know nine months when he would call in a Time and the the phone would ring and we'd Wonder uh Elsa and I you know is it one of our daughters is it a friend is it a robo call or is it Donald Trump and he would just at night or I'm calling to check in and oh I can't talk to you very long he would say and uh then he'd talk for 25 minutes uh extraordinary opportunity for a reporter but as I say in one of my commentaries that it I I became entangled and uh my wife also became entangled uh in the life she said this was a marriage of during that period three people Elsa myself and Donald Trump oh goodness the reason I don't know if you want to be a part of um Bob thank you so much for your time today we are unfortunately out of time but a National Treasure and I'm so honored to work with you at the Washington Post and honored to be able to conduct this interview today thank you so much thank you okay and thanks to all of you for joining today as always you can go to Washington Post Live or washingtonpost.com live to find this transcript re-watch this program or all of our other programming thanks so much for joining us

Channel: Washington Post Live

Views: 215,640

Keywords: bob woodward, breaking news, breaking news video, conversation, democracy, donald trump, election, interview, journalist, leigh ann caldwell, live event, live speeches, live updates, live video, midterms, press conference, real time coverage, the trump tapes, video updates, washington post, washington post live

Id: ybJdArd7BCE

Length: 32min 48sec (1968 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 31 2022