TRIAL LAST YEAR AWARDED CARROLL AND INITIAL -- ADDITIONAL $5 MILLION. THIS MIGHT ONLY BE THE BEGINNING OF TRUMP'S TROUBLES. THIS WEEK, A JUDGE CONFIRMED THAT THE FIRST OF HIS FOUR CRIMINAL TRIALS WILL MOVE FORWARD, BEGINNING NEXT MONTH. JOINING ME NOW, ONE OF THE KEY WITNESSES IN THIS CASE, ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HELPED KICK OFF THIS INVESTIGATION. MICHAEL COHEN. PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS A COUNCIL TO DONALD TRUMP, THE AUTHOR OF NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING BOOK, REVENGE, HOW DONALD TRUMP WEAPONIZED THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AGAINST HIS CRITICS AND DISLOYAL. I'M, MORE AS WELL AS THE HOST OF HIS PODCAST, MEA CULPA WITH MICHAEL COHEN. AND THE POLITICAL BEAT DOWN. MICHAEL, WELCOME. I'VE GOT A LOT TO TALK TO ABOUT. >> YES. >> I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST HOW YOUR FEELING ABOUT THIS. >> I THINK DISH JAMES AND THE PROSECUTORS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB. I AM OBVIOUSLY ECSTATIC WITH THE DECISION THAT WAS PUT OUT BY JUDGE ENGORON, SPECIFICALLY PAGES 41 THROUGH 43, THAT REFERRED TO ME AND CORROBORATE THE FACT THAT I TOLD THE TRUTH. THAT I CONTINUE TO TELL THE TRUTH. THAT I HAVE CONTINUOUSLY TOLD THE TRUTH ONCE I EXCAVATED MYSELF FROM THE TRUMP ORBIT. >> LET ME READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, WHAT JUDGE ENGORON SAID ABOUT YOU. HE SAID COHEN TESTIFIED THAT ALTHOUGH DONALD TRUMP DID NOT EXPRESSLY DIRECT HIM TO REVERSE ENGINEER FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, HE ORDERED HIM TO DO SO IN DIRECTLY IN HIS MOB VOICE. THE ANIMOSITY BETWEEN THE WITNESS AND THE DEFENDANT IS PALPABLE, PROVIDING COHEN WITH AN INCENTIVE TO LIE, THE COURT FOUND HIS TESTIMONY CREDIBLE, BASED ON THE RELAXED MANNER IN WHICH HE TESTIFIED, THE GENERAL PLAUSIBILITY OF HIS STATEMENTS AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE WAY HIS TESTIMONY WAS CORROBORATED BY OTHER TRIAL EVIDENCE. A LESS FORGIVING FACT FINDER MIGHT HAVE CONCLUDED DIFFERENTLY, MIGHT NOT HAVE BELIEVED A SINGLE WORD OF A CONVICTED PERJURER. THIS FACT FINDER DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT PLEADING GUILTY TO PERJURY MEANS THAT YOU CAN NEVER TELL THE TRUTH. MICHAEL COHEN TOLD THE TRUTH. >> AGAIN, I WOULD THINK JUDGE ENGORON. I WOULD LIKE JUST TO 0.1 THING OUT. THE ANSWER IS, YES I DID PLEAD GUILTY UNDER 1001 VIOLATIONS WHEN I LIED TO CONGRESS. BUT SOMETHING, INCLUDING MANY OF THE PUNDITS ON THESE SHOWS, LIKE LISA RUBIN I WAS WATCHING THIS MORNING, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PERJURY AND THE FACT THAT I HAD PLED GUILTY TO. IT I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR, WITH A PERJURY WAS, IT WAS THE NUMBER OF TIMES THAT I CLAIMED TO HAVE SPOKEN TO TRUMP ABOUT A FAILED TRUMP TOWER MOSCOW REAL ESTATE PROJECT. THE TRUE ANSWER WAS TEN. BUT DONALDSON LIKE THE NUMBER 10. HE WANTED THREE. AND ALONG WITH GUYS LIKE ALLEN GORDON OR JAY SECULAR OR TY COBB, I'LL BE LOWELL, IVANKA, JARED, ALMOST LOU OF PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN THE CRAFTING OF THAT STATEMENT. THEY WANT TO THREE. SO I SAID THREE. THAT'S THE LIE. I DON'T THINK THAT LIE COMPARED TO, NOT JUST THE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE WHICH SUPPORTED EVERYTHING THAT I HAD SAID WHILE I WAS ON THE STAND, BUT THE CORROBORATING TESTIMONY OF THE WITNESSES -- JUDGE ENGORON IS CORRECT. I TOLD THE TRUTH. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT LYING. PART OF THE REASON THAT THIS CASE GETS UNDER DONALD TRUMP'S SKIN SO MUCH, THERE ARE A FEW REASONS, ONE IS THAT YOU ARE A WITNESS IN, IT AND THE OTHER ONE IS THAT HE HATES TISH JAMES. BUT KEY TO THIS WHOLE THING IS THAT IT POKES A HOLE, IT TAKES THE AIR OUT OF THE MYTH OF DONALD TRUMP. YOU TOLD CONGRESS ABOUT THIS, HE INFLATES HIS WEALTH. HE LIES ABOUT HIS WEALTH. BASICALLY, ENGORON, IN THE SUMMARY JUDGMENT IN SEPTEMBER, SAID THAT YOU ARE A MYTH. YOU ARE BUILT ON A LIE. YOU ARE A FRAUDULENT PERSON. THAT SEEMS TO BOTHER DONALD TRUMP YET MORE THAN THE FACT THAT HE FACES LOSING HIS LIBERTY AND GOING TO JAIL. >> I'M NOT SO SURE. RIGHT NOW HE IS NOT CONFRONTED WITH THAT ASPECT, WHICH IS WHAT WILL BE STARTING ON MARCH 25TH AT THE CRIMINAL TRIAL. THESE HAVE ALL BEEN CIVIL SO FAR AND HE HAS LOST. HE CONTINUES TO LOSE IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE CASES. MY PREDICTION IS THAT HE LOSES ON ALL 91 COUNTS THAT WERE BROUGHT AGAINST HIM. >> WOW. >> DONALD IS LIKE A DONKEY, HE CAN ONLY SEE THE CARROT IN FRONT OF HIS NOSE. WHAT IS THE CARROT RIGHT NOW IN FRONT OF HIS NOSE? HALF A BILLION DOLLARS PLUS IN CIVIL FINES BETWEEN E. JEAN CARROLL AND NOW LETITIA JAMES CIVIL FRAUD CASE. WHEN HE IS GOING TO BE CONFRONTED IN 27 DAYS FROM NOW -- 37 DAYS? 37 DAYS FROM NOW AT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF NEW YORK'S CASE, ALVIN BRAGG CASE, REST ASSURED THAT WILL BE PRIORITY TO HIM BECAUSE, YES, LOSING YOUR FREEDOM IS PROBABLY WORSE FOR MOST PEOPLE THAT LOSING MONEY, I CAN TELL YOU THAT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. BUT FOR DONALD, THEY ARE EQUAL. >> REPORTER: SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT CASE BECAUSE YOU ARE INVOLVED IN THAT AS WELL. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CAN TELL ME WITHOUT KILLING ME, BUT WE TALK ABOUT THIS ONE AS A CIVIL FRAUD CASE. THE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IS THAT IT IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THAT. SAME THING WITH THE OTHER ONE, WE TALKED ABOUT IT AS THE HUSH MONEY CASE. BUT IT IS ACTUALLY THE ISSUE AT HAND IS -- WHETHER IT WAS ELECTION INTERFERENCE. HOW DO YOU THINK THAT CASE WILL GO? >> I THINK THAT'S ONLY PART OF IT. AND, YES EVERYBODY LIKES TO CALL IT THE STORMY DANIELS CASE BECAUSE IT IS SALACIOUS, THE PRESIDENT AND THE POURED STAR. IT'S NOT. IT'S BUSINESS FRAUD AS WELL AS CAMPAIGN FINANCE. I CAN'T GO INTO ANY OF THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE CASE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, BUT I WANT TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE TRIAL GOING FORWARD. OBVIOUSLY I'M GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH BLANCHE AND NATIONALLY'S, THERE CROSS- EXAMINATION. THEY WILL DO OR TRY TO DO TO ME WHAT DONALD HAS TOLD THEM TO DO, WHICH IS ATTACK HIM, ATTACK HIS CREDIBILITY. SO FAR I HAVE TESTIFIED BEFORE SEVEN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES. I'VE BEEN WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY MORE THAN 25 TIMES, INCLUDING GRAND JURY. I HAVE NOW BEEN A WITNESS FOR SEVERAL DAYS WITH THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL CASE THAT IS THE ENGORON DECISION. AS ANYBODY TURNED AROUND AND QUESTIONED BY CREDIBILITY? THAT IS WHY I FIND IT FOOLISH WHEN THEY WANT TO BRING THAT UP. THEY NEED TO WORK ON THE DOCUMENTS. THEY NEED TO WORK ON THEIR CASE. NOT TO WIN THEIR CASE BY ATTACKING ME. THAT IS NOT GOING TO WORK. THEY NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WIN THEIR OWN CASE BASED UPON WHATEVER EVIDENCE THEY THINK THEY CAN PROVIDE. >> REPORTER: ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS IN THE E. JEAN CARROLL, THE LATEST JUDGMENT, HOW MUCH MONEY IS GOING TO TAKE TO CAUSE DONALD TRUMP TO STOP? AND THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THIS WAS DISCOURAGEMENT, THIS WAS MONEY THAT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT HE DEFRAUDED THE TAXPAYERS OF NEW YORK. WHAT CHANGE -- WHAT CHANGES DONALD TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR? IT WAS $500 MILLION CHANGE DONALD TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR? ACCORDING TO TRUTH SOCIAL, HE JUST KEEPS POSTING THE SAME STUFF ABOUT HOW IT'S ALL FRAUD. >> WHAT ELSE S.E.C. HAVE? THERE IS A JUDGMENT AGAINST HIM FOR OVER $500 MILLION. NOT INCLUDING THE 88 POINT $6 MILLION HE IS GOING TO 02 E. JEAN CARROLL. IT IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE, I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY WANTS TO WRITE IN ANY NEWSPAPER, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR CREDENTIALS MAYBE, UNLESS HE IS GOING TO SHOW YOU THAT HIS BANK ACCOUNT HAS MORE THAN A HALF 1 MILLION DOLLARS -- HE DOESN'T HAVE 400 MILLION CASH ON HAND. MAYBE WHAT HE'S DOING IS HE'S INCLUDING RNC MONEY. MAYBE HE'S INCLUDING THE PACK MONEY, OR THE VARIOUS DIFFERENT CONDOMINIUM MONIES THAT IS SITTING IN X ACCOUNTS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO HIM. THOSE DON'T BELONG TO HIM EITHER. HE HAS A VERY INTERESTING WAY OF LOOKING AT MONEY. THE WAY HE LOOKS OUT IT IS, IF HIS NAME IS SOMEHOW ATTACHED TO IT, IT'S AVAILABLE TO HIM. IT IS NOT. HE DOES NOT HAVE. IT THERE GOING TO HAVE TO START LIQUIDATING ASSETS. >> YES. THAT BECOMES THE ISSUE. HE'S GOT ASSETS WORTH MORE THAN HALF 1 MILLION DOLLARS. >> HE DOES. >> THE CASH IS THE ISSUE. >> I WANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION. WHEN THE ASSETS OR SOLD, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP HAS HAD THEM SINCE 1980, AND HERE ACQUIRED THEM FOR EITHER 40 -- $1 MILLION OR PARKING LOTS, RESTAURANTS, COMMERCIAL SPACE THAT HE OWNS HERE IN THE CITY, HE ACQUIRED THOSE AS THE DEVELOPER OF THE PROPERTY. HE HAS ZERO BASIS IN THOSE PROPERTIES. WHEN HE SELLS THEM HE HAS TO PAY TAXES ON THEM, JUST AS ANYBODY ELSE. AND DEPENDING UPON HIS TAX BRACKET, REMEMBER, YOU HAVE CITY, STATE AND FEDERAL TAX. THAT ALSO DOES NOT INCLUDE WHETHER OR NOT THIS CASE IS NOW GOING TO BE SENT TO THE IRS. >> WHICH WE BELIEVE THAT TO SHAMES HAS SCENTED BOTH OF THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS TO LOOK AT AND THE IRS. >> NOT ONLY IF IT GOES TO THE IRS BUT ALSO THE STATE TAX DEPARTMENT, NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE AS WELL AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION AND FINANCE. THIS NUMBER IS SUBSTANTIALLY GREATER, EVEN THEN THE 500 MILLION THAT EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT.
