Bernie Sanders questioned by Oxford Students

[Applause] foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] for those opening remarks and I think the fact that you did all of that without a single note in front of you puts all of our politicians to shame um I'll only ask one or two questions then we'll open up questions on the floor my first question was going to be the book is titled it's okay to be angry about capitalism um and I was wondering whether the points you raised in your speech the problems with American British Western Society whether you see them as being inherent to capitalism or just the current structural system of capitalism that we operate under well I think they are inherent but I think there is zero doubt that they have become much much worse in recent years I think what we're seeing on the part of the ruling class and it's important I use that word advisedly you see it's kind of like an unkind word why are you saying that I'm saying it because it is true there is a ruling class that has enormous wealth and enormous power over almost every aspect in our lives now the media doesn't use that term but I think it is important that we do use that term and what I think has happened over the years and I can't quite tell you why it has happened is many of these people have become literally Addicted to Money and greed all right everybody here wants to make money and everybody here wants to have a good standard of living that's kind of natural we all do but there is something going on now where people who have billions of dollars more money than they can spend and their families can spend in a hundred lifetimes they think they need even more and to get that more they're willing to step on other people I mentioned politically they're willing to put millions of dollars to defeat young people of color who are fighting for justice really they're willing to throw workers out on the street and replace them with machines and not worry about what happens to those workers so we have in America and I know in your country very serious problems with addiction and I think these people on top see it as a game they don't need anymore do you really need 10 billion dollars to live or 50 billion or 100 billion what they are into is greed and into power and I think we're seeing that in a way that we have perhaps never seen before my second question I suppose relates to your references to technology um looking forwards with the attempts you've said have been being made by super Pacs to chase out your Protege in Congress and the ever marching tide of technological development are you optimistic about the future or do you think it's only going to get worse well that depends on your generation it truly does if you sit back and think it's okay for bosses to say we have new Machinery we don't need you anymore good luck get your unemployment and you're on your own it will get worse but if you stand up and say and I believe this I personally you know am not anti-technology John Maynard Keynes back in the 1920s he said look technology is going to develop the day is going to come when people only have to work 20 hours a week is not a bad thing I don't think it's a bad thing I want you all to be thinking about as a result of so much brain power and the creation of this technology that it is an opportunity for us and in the future to be doing things that nobody has ever been able to do before if machines are more productive than human beings the machines are doing work dangerous work that people died or got sick doing that is a good thing what we should be thinking about is okay if technology increases productivity one of two things happens either people work fewer hours which is a good thing more leisure time is a good thing or else they make more income now interestingly enough just very recently I think within the last week or so I don't know how many of you saw it there was a study done here in the UK where a number of firms experimented with a four day work week anyone see that and it was interesting and apparently the result of that experiment was that workers themselves felt much much better their quality of life improve their stress level went down and they became more productive as a result and almost all of the companies said you know what this four day work week is a good thing we're going to keep it what we have to be thinking about it is not acceptable this is what power is about and what you have got to stand up to it is not acceptable for some billionaire to say look we got a B and C technology sorry about what it does to your life you're powerless I made that decision and if your life is disrupted so what not my problem it is your problem and what you have got to say is technology is great but I want it to benefit us not just make more profits for the people who own the technology my final question then foreign audience is what do you think the single most important thing people of Our Generation can do to prevent the future from getting worse well one of the issues that I know everybody is thinking about that I didn't even mention mention in the book a little bit is climate you know so overriding everything else I suspect that many of you are worried about the kind of planet that you and your children and grandchildren will be living in and I want to say a word about that you all know enough about climate I don't have to talk about the dangers of climate I suspect you all know that but I don't know if you know this and one day we raised this issue in the book and I want you to think about this If somebody walks into a shop in London today has a gun or doesn't have a gun and robs the store everybody says that person committed a criminal act right should be punished bad thing we all agree on that if you know that over 60 years ago the scientists at the major oil companies understood exactly what fossil fuel would do to the planet and they went to the leaders of the company and they said look we are producing a product which brings carbon emissions carbon emissions are going to warm the planet and we think really bad things are going to happen now everybody makes a mistake I make a mistake you make a mistake 60 years ago scientists told the leaders of the fossil fuel industry what company missions were due to the planet and you know what they did they lied what they ended up doing is funding organizations in America and I expect around the world that said well we're not sure about climate change maybe right it may be cyclical it may be natural or maybe what happens every five million years we don't know they lied they did know so one of the things I want you to think about and think hard the kid Robs a store that's a criminal activity how do you define a CEO of a fossil fuel industry who knowingly allowed the continuation of the production of carbon emissions to destroy the planet is that guy a wonderful businessman Exxon Mobil made 200 billion last year guess they must be doing pretty good or in fact are they criminals what do you refer or how do you deal with the heads of large pharmaceutical companies who sometimes in the case of the United States with government Aid come up with great drugs that save lives the United States government worked we have an Institute called the National Institute of a health grade scientists work with a private company to come up with a vaccine which has been enormously successful in helping us deal with a pandemic but that company wants to own That vaccine and there are poor people all over the world who cannot afford the price how do you think about a company which has a product that can save money but doesn't want to let poor people have that product because it impacts their bottom line is that a moral issue you tell me is that what the function does a company if you were walking around a swimming pool and there's a kid in the swimming pool who is drowning and you said well I'm not going to go in that pool and save the kid I don't want to get my bathing suit wet what would people say about you not very nice things and yet you have companies who have products today that can save millions of lives but because they want to hold the formula to That vaccine or letting people die those are the kinds of issues that I want you to think about as well as thinking about them what should we do about them well what you should do about it is get involved in the political process at the Grassroots level what we are attempting to do in the United States is build a multi-racial multi-generational political movement which goes beyond the need for incremental change and young people are very much the leaders of that movement these are people who are saying it's too late to nibble around the edges we need to create a government and a society and a planet that works for all people not just the few and you're all smart enough to figure out the ways that you can do it but essentially in a democracy you have to understand that power comes from organization from standing together from having an agenda and from Having the courage to stand up to some very very powerful special interests bottom line of everything I wrote In the book is the status quo is working really really really well for the people on top they don't want to change it they don't want you to change it and in a dozen different ways they will fight you changing it stuff they put on media is to deflect your attention they don't have to shoot you in the streets they don't have to arrest you keep you busy with a million different things and your job is to figure out how you bring people together to take on those very powerful special interest at the end of the day not being a mathematician what I do know is that 99 is a lot larger number than one percent right now look to all these questions uh I thought there'd be a lot uh so I looked at the member here in the the black coat in the two elections in which you stood for President we saw first hand the power of social media when it comes to elections particularly Twitter which Donald Trump built a massive following now we've also seen a billionaire use his Capital to purchase the entire social media platform more than ever it seems that the internet is for sale and the ownership of the internet is a capitalist system despite being a system that can influence elections all over the world can influence what people are thinking believing how they form communities what do you think about this ownership of the internet and do you reimagine a different model for the internet one that is democratic and one that uplifts marginalized voices that is a great question uh and I wish I had uh a great answer to it uh what you're saying is enormously important and as I mentioned earlier we have eight media conglomerates in the United States that determine what ninety percent of our people see here and read and they very much restrict serious debate there is now growing attention you know the technology has moved so fast and the internet has moved so fast the Congress in the United States is now just beginning just beginning to figure out how to deal with it you know our friend Elon Musk took over Twitter and his friend Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post and other billionaires on media in America so the question that you raise is enormously important and these are the issues and that we're all going to have to think about do we believe in Freedom in the speech yeah we don't so if you want to put post something on the Internet that criticizes me is that allowable of course it is that's what dissent is about should the government come in and censor what you're saying no the government should not on the other hand if you are engaging in grotesque lies that might lead people to violence should you be allowed to do that there was a Supreme Court case way back when in the United States talking about freedom of speech that says you can't yell fire in a crowded theater right because then people get trampled and died it's not taking away your freedom of speech that hey I want to yell fire well you can't so that's the balance that we have to use certainly certainly the concentration of ownership in media is something that has got to be addressed and we've got to break up those huge monopolies absolutely now in addition to the issue that you raise there's another issue going on in America I think maybe not so much here and that is there used to be many many newspapers All Over America including papers that covered small towns and communities and those newspapers were supported by local advertising right so the local supermarket local bank advertised the owner of the paper made money and talked about what the local school board or city council was doing because of the internet and the advertising that goes to the internet many of those small papers are going out of business so you have throughout America what we call Media deserts there is no media to talk about what's going on but the mayor is doing the city council the school board how do we address that problem well we go into it in some length in the book which means you need not to have the government run that media but Public Funding to allow people in a democratic way to run that media so I think there has to be public money through independent Democratic ways to educate people and allow people at different points of view to express them that's a very good question not a great answer but thank you next remember with the glasses in the second row there yeah right um so I'm a big fan of technology and I grew a bit technology and automation hold that Mike a little bit closer yeah okay so is that better cool um I've been a big fan of Technology Automation and Robotics in fact one of my degrees was robotics um as you said in your speech everything is going towards process automation robot and Co and I believe in your face in the nation interview that you had you talked about robot attacks which Bill Gates has also advocated what are you thinking in terms of robot attacks is going to be similar to a South Korean type robot attack system or what do you mean about that really I think that's one of the ideas that's out there what you do not want to do is literally provide incentives for corporations to lay off workers robots may need maintenance but they don't get sick right so it's cheaper to maintain a robot than a person who needs to take time off maybe when they have a baby when they get sick and all that and right now what we do is we provide Financial incentives the company to develop that technology so they can then lay off workers so I think attacks on robotics is one idea but there are many other ideas that we have got to be dealing with let me tell you something I don't know if any of you saw it that got over here much there was a piece uh in the New York Times two weeks ago dealing with chat box did you all see that and it was really scary so a writer from the time sit downs and talks to a chat box chat box turned out that the name of Sydney and he's chatting with Sydney who's enormously articulate and in the middle of the discussion Sydney says I love you so the writer says well thank you very much but I'm happily married and Sydney says your wife does not love you no not laughable artificial intelligence accumulates all of the information that's on the internet it knows a zillion times more than the smartest person in this room can know he may know in fact what his wife was writing or whatever although he claims his wife does love him I'm happy to unit but but this is just the beginning there are machines out there that are accumulating information that come from billions of people so we are looking at some very challenging times from artificial intelligence and from increased efficiency through Robotics and through other means and you know the taxing robots is one small part of the solution the bottom line here is every person in this room in this country in this world has got to be involved in making sure that technology works for us and not just the few all right and there's so many wonderful things there was a I read somewhere recently you have artificial intelligence now which can read um you know x-rays much faster and more effectively than doctors can that's a good thing that'll improve our Health Care system so we gotta utilize what's out there we ought to fight what is negative but mostly we have got to make those decisions not just the people who own that country [Applause] you've heard about the fifth row back there yeah so you're a bit far from home and your usual political constituents I'm sure we're speaking into a very very International room you've spoken about the importance of sort of Grassroots level activism and getting involved in the political process around you what role do you see International collaboration playing in the fight for a more just world and how do we link Graphics say that again I'm sorry what do I see sorry um you've spoken about the importance of Grassroots level activism you're far from where your constituents usually are what role do you see International collaboration playing in these fights for more just World good International collaboration yeah um For Better or For Worse the world is obviously becoming much smaller all right and I was so Furious almost on a personal level at what Putin did in the Ukraine not just because of the terrible destruction that the people in the Ukraine are experiencing not just because of the loss of tens of thousands of young men in Russia which is into itself but you know what else sanitation did at a time when we are trying to bring the world together at a time when you know Russia had been run by the Soviet Union we had a terrible cold war for forever since the revolution there we were in opposition to China and suddenly those things were breaking down the United States was working with China working with Russia and now what you're seeing is a growing cold war between the United States and China and obviously a terrible situation with Russia just think for a moment how are we going to deal with the crisis of climate if you have a world that is divided and not cooperating the United States is the number two carbon emitter in the world China is number one Russia does its share Europe does its share etc etc no one country we are investing a lot of money in Transforming Our Energy System and you're talking about it and doing that as well it ain't going to work unless every country on Earth certainly the major emitters are evolved in that together so on this one there must be the future of the world's at sake we are whether you like it or not we are all in this together climate change is going to be a disaster for China some of their major cities will be underwater it will be a major disaster for the U.S you have last summer some of the hottest days in the history of this country right all right drought flooding extreme weather disturbances that is what we are looking at as a planet so you asked me of an international cooperation that must be the case I'll give you another example and that is the pandemic pandemic is not a British issue it's not an American issue it is a global issue and we're going to have to come up with ways to do a better job in fighting the next pandemic turns out that China is doing some really good research in that area we've got to cooperate with them and with other countries so one of the challenges that you face you know historically I see it right in front of me every day is the United States Senator there have always been people in your country in my country and around the world for whatever reason who are nationalistic America first you know the UK you know the British Empire first through all that stuff all right well we got to get over that all right and we're going to have to figure out how we work with people together all over the country because in fact if we don't solve climate if we don't prevent another pandemic Etc there's got to be massive massive suffering [Applause] I'm tired I'm not sure of time for any more questions but there is one question that all the members would like to hear your answer to Senator just given all the problems you've talked about are you intending to contest the Democratic nomination for the presidential election now you see you see you're falling into that trap of political gossip all right the other issues that I talked about are far more important than that one but what I have said is that if President Biden runs for re-election I'm going to support him uh and I think he will so we'll leave it at that all right let me just conclude um I know I probably my wife where's Jane Jane you here somewhere here's my wife and she always tells me that we have to end give out prozacs at the end of my speeches because I impress everybody's suicide rates go up everything and I I don't want to do that um despite everything that I've said and that is in my country and I know it's true in your country and I see it in this room right here uh your generation you know your brothers and sisters in the United States and all over the world your generation is in many ways the most Progressive generation in the modern history of this country your generation is more anti-racist more anti-sexist more anti-homophobia more anti-xenophobia than any generation in modern history you are smart and if you have the courage to stand together and go beyond race and go beyond nationality and sexual orientation and all that stuff if you can work with other people in your own country other people around the world you can create you can transform this planet you really can you can save the planet you can greatly improve the quality of life you can do it all right you really can so I don't want anything that I said to make you feel depressed or hopeless that's not the case the case is that you have extraordinary potential to transform this world work with your brothers and sisters in the United States and other countries let's do it thank you all before before we thank the senator for joining us um and to end on a happier note that that throws act um in recognition of Decades of service to the aims of the Australian Society promoting civil civil discourse political engagement and Free Speech across the globe and in recognition of your repeated visits to the union on behalf of the our Patron the Lord haseltine of Stanford um our chair of trustees and myself I'd like to send you the honorary membership of the Oxford Union society and a membership thank you most importantly Jennifer Sanders you can now get members members prices in our bar so [Applause] when I show this card do I get a discount on coffee 25 25 ladies and gentlemen in all good bookstores now and in the Goodman Library so please join us thank you [Music]

Channel: OxfordUnion

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Length: 28min 37sec (1717 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 14 2023