Belts Are Now BETTER Than Chains On Bicycles!

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I commute on a belt drive ebike, and I'd like to amend one thing in this video: He makes it sound like getting a replacement belt is really complicated. There's a calculator which requires precise measurements, and there's 23 different lengths times 4 different product lines. You actually don't need to worry about that unless you're building a bike.

If you need another belt, just look at the code written on your old belt, and get that. easy peasy.

👍︎︎ 14 👤︎︎ u/knellotron 📅︎︎ Apr 04 2023 🗫︎ replies

I have a 2015 Novara Arkham, which used to be REIs brand before they swapped to Co-Op. it’s the best bike I’ve ever ridden in my life. It’s become my Daly commuter, the belt is so quiet oh man it’s like riding a cloud. In the nearly 10 years I’ve had it, the drive has had to be replaced though. Both times happened at the expense of REI, because it was their fault with the product some how. It seems to have to many parts that are made by companies that don’t quite stay in business, so when it’s time for a more intense tune up, the whole thing has to be replaced, because old parts can’t be fine. Ones that stabilizes out, I’ll be a loyal belt drive rider forever.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/Bamaji1 📅︎︎ Apr 04 2023 🗫︎ replies

I've debated on getting a belt drive for my next computer but the added expense keeps me away.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/GearNerd85 📅︎︎ Apr 04 2023 🗫︎ replies

Been better for a long time. But the frame has to be made for a belt drive. Not many are.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/BD59 📅︎︎ Apr 04 2023 🗫︎ replies

How do you think it will fair with mid-drive ebikes?

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/ctrltab2 📅︎︎ Apr 04 2023 🗫︎ replies

chain waxing is a good alternative if you're all about the durability but don't mind the added faff.

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/Anais_Rchmstr 📅︎︎ Apr 05 2023 🗫︎ replies

disagree

many minuses to belts

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/wleBikeGuyAtlanta 📅︎︎ Apr 06 2023 🗫︎ replies
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Belts are used to run the blowers on 10,000  horsepower racing engines, the powertrains of   150 horsepower motorbikes, and more recently, the  drivetrains of many bicycles. I've been an avid   user of belt drive trains on my bikes for about 12  years now, and have somehow clocked over 135,000   kilometers on these chain alternatives. I've taken  belt drivetrains up the world's highest roads,   across dry deserts, through wild jungles, along  windy beaches, over monstrous salt flats, and   into epic snowscapes. In this video, I'll tell you  why belt drive is better than chain drive for many   cycling applications. I'll then explain why you  don't see belt drive on more bikes. And lastly,   I'll comprehensively answer every question I've  ever received about these drivetrains. Throughout   this video, keep in mind that I'm referring  to my experience with one specific product:   Gates Carbon Drive CDX. But this is not a  sponsored video, and I have no affiliation   with Gates. If I come across as enthusiastic,  it's simply because I'm a happy customer.   Right, let's start with the  characteristics of bicycle belt drive. A bicycle belt is different from all other  types of belts. They are constructed from   a polymer that is reinforced using multiple  carbon fiber cords. It's these tensile cords   that make them especially strong. Rob Rast  from FLX bikes shows that you can even lift   up the back of a van without breaking a bicycle  belt. These belts are usually paired with steel   rear sprockets and alloy front sprockets,  and can be run single-speed or multi-speed   when paired with a gearbox or internal gear hub.  So, why is belt drive better than chain drive? Firstly, belts are very long-lasting. Most  cyclists go years without needing to replace   a belt or sprocket. I've recently put 35,000  kilometers into a belt drivetrain that saw many   steep hills and every riding condition possible.  Others have even exceeded 40,000 kilometers. This   is often three to four times further than  you can travel with a chain. Belts are also   very low maintenance. This is because they don't  require any grease or lubrication, and much less   cleaning too. Just a splash of water is often it.  Due to the lack of grease and oil, belts stay very   clean. This means you'll never get black muck  on your hands or pants ever again. Belts also   run eerily silent. Normally, all you can hear is  a light hum coming from your drivetrain. Belts are   particularly good in adverse riding conditions.  This is due to the sprocket design, which can very   effectively shed debris from its surfaces, unlike  a chain. But it's also because you'll likely be   pairing your belt with a gearbox drivetrain, which  keeps your critical drive components sealed away   and protected from the elements. Belts do not  rust. This is advantageous at the beach or in   cold parts of the world where salt is put on the  roads. Ultimately, belts save you a lot of time.   Most people don't like maintaining their bikes,  sourcing replacement parts, or going to bike shops   for repairs. Belted bikes minimize all of these  things so you can spend more time learning about   bikes on this YouTube channel! Okay, so if belts  are so good, why don't we see them on more bikes? The biggest downside is that belts are not  compatible with derailleur gears. This means   you will need to use a gearbox or internal gear  hub for the gears. Now, I love gearboxes and think   they're perfect for hard-working cargo, commuter,  and touring bikes. Gearboxes are strong, reliable,   low maintenance, less susceptible to damage, and  you can even change gears while stationary. But   gearboxes are often one kilogram heavier and five  percent less efficient than derailleur gears. They   also don't shift that well under a load. So, if  you want the lightest or fastest bike - it won't   be sporting a belt. Belts also require a special  frame. These frames must have a way to adjust   the tension, they must have a split in the rear  triangle to install a one-piece belt, and they   must have an especially stiff rear triangle so  that the belts cannot skip on the rear sprocket.   Belts are often not found in bike shops. This  means that you will need to order replacements   online. It's obviously best to do this before you  need them. Belt components have a higher upfront   cost. A new CDX drivetrain is around US$250 or 250  euros, but keep in mind the cost per kilometer can   be similar to a high performance chain drivetrain  due to the longer wear life. Belts cannot be   repaired. This means that if you damage a belt,  it will need to be replaced. The good news is   that broken belts are uncommon - I've only ever  broken one - but you should still carry a spare   belt on long rides. They coil up small and weigh  under 100 grams, which is about the same weight   as the chain breaker tool that you can now leave  at home. Okay, let's now move on to the questions,   which will get more technical as we go. But  first, if you're interested in using belt drive   for touring or bikepacking, check out my touring  and bikepacking bike buyers guides. You can learn   everything about the bikes before comparing  over 80 belt drive bikes and 200 more with   chain drivetrains. They're both updated yearly for  free and you can find the download links below.   How do belts feel to ride? They feel like an  even smoother version of a well-lubricated chain.   Despite the way they look, there is no noticeable  stretch in the belt thanks to the carbon fiber   tensile cords that are hidden inside. Why don't  they use belt drive bikes in the Tour de France?   To compete at the highest level of cycling, it's  necessary for riders to have the lightest and most   efficient bikes. Unfortunately, belt drive bikes  are heavier and less efficient as a result of the   gearbox, so you'll never see them in the Tour  de France. Don't automotive timing chains last   longer than timing belts? This is often true, but  keep in mind that belts on bikes are a different   application and technology. All durability tests  suggest that belts last longer on a bicycle.   How expensive are belt drive bikes? A belt drive  bike with a three-speed internal gear hub starts   at US$599 and a bit over 1,000 Euros get you a  bike with an 8-speed hub. The prices go well into   five figures for fancy e-bikes. Can you use belt  drive with e-bikes? Most belts are approved for   e-bike use, but in the gates range it's only the  CDC and CDX models that will allow for mid-drive   motors. There's a torque limit to be aware of  too, the lower-cost CDC model is approved for   50Nm motors, while CDX is good for 90Nm. Can  you use belt drive in the mud and snow? I have   taken my belt drive bikes through thousands of  kilometers of mud and snow. But keep in mind it's   only Gates CDX that's rated for riding in the mud,  and the models that are rated to shed snow and ice   are CDX, CDC and CDN. Can you use belt drive on  fixed gear bikes? You can and it looks pretty rad.   Can you use belt drive with full suspension  bikes? Yes, a spring-loaded tensioner makes   this possible. The tensioner is actually a super  cool bit of kit, as it accounts for increasing   chainstay length as you get deeper into your  travel. For more, check out bikes by Zerode,   Nicolai and Calvalerie. Do belts ever snap? They  do. The good news is that a broken belt is not a   common occurrence, and it's usually preventable.  You can skip to this time where I discuss   prevention in detail. Do vandals cut belts? This  has never happened to me and I have never heard of   this happening to anyone else. How expensive are  belt drive components? A replacement drivetrain   for my bike costs around US$250, which is a lot  but when you consider you can travel more than   35,000 kilometers for this price, it's not  any different from a high performance chain   drivetrain. That said, chains can be run cheaper.  I'd estimate that Shimano Alfine components work   out at half the price on a per kilometer basis.  You might be enticed by the entry-level Gate   SideTrack drivetrain costing just one hundred  dollars, but it lasts less than half the distance   of CDX, resulting in a similar cost per kilometer.  What does a belt drivetrain look like after   35,000 kilometers? The front and rear sprockets  are now less than one millimeter thick and are   sharp to touch. This is approximately one-third  of the thickness of a new sprocket. But I've seen   sprockets worn down much more than mine. Aren't  there limited gear ratios available on belt drive   bikes? There are lots of gear ratio options  these days. You'll find eight front sprockets,   13 rear sprockets, and 23 belt blanks in the Gates  CDX range. Can you modify a frame for belt drive?   You can, and I've actually added belt splitters  to multiple frames over the years. Some heavy duty   frames will be well suited to modification, but  for the best user experience, I recommend using a   frame that's engineered with the correct stiffness  to use a belt. If your modified frame turns out to   be too flexy, the belts can lose too much tension  and will slip on the rear sprocket. You can combat   this with a higher belt tension but this is less  efficient, and wears out your sprockets faster.   What's the belt maintenance like? Belt  drivetrains are often said to be zero   maintenance, but I didn't squeeze 35,000  kilometers out of my drivetrain without   a little bit of care. Debris from the road  or trail wears the sprockets down quicker,   so make sure to periodically use a toothbrush  and a splash of water to remove any grit.   Do belts ever make noise? In dry environments  with ultra fine dust, you will likely end up   with a squeaky belt. I use treadmill silicon  lubricant to keep things quiet. The good thing   is that it's not an aerosol, so you can put it in  tiny bottles for short adventures. There is a new   product from Universal Transmissions that dries  on as a film, I'll be testing that next. Please,   avoid the Hanseline belt care stick,  as it's very sticky and attracts grit.   How do you set the belt tension? Unlike  chains, belts do not get longer with use,   so you won't need to adjust the tension until the  sprockets have worn down significantly. There are   two typical ways to set the tension of a belt.  Some bikes use sliding rear dropouts, and others   use adjustable eccentric bottom bracket shells.  You can use your smartphone to determine the   appropriate tension by plucking the belt. Your  smartphone app will decipher the frequency and   determine if your tension is correct. That said,  I've found that frames with especially stiff rear   triangles will allow for significantly less belt  tension than is recommended by Gates. So, fit a   snubber on your bike, which will keep the belt on  the rear sprocket, and tinker with your tension.   How do you find the right belt length? Gates has  a calculator on their website that allows you to   input both the chainstay length of your frame,  and the gear ratio you're looking to achieve.   It will then spit out all of the sprocket sizes  and belt lengths that will work on your bike.   Do belt drive bikes destroy hub and bottom bracket  bearings? It's possible that a belted bike with   the maximum belt tension could prematurely wear  bearings. But on a properly engineered frame,   the tension while riding will be similar to using  a chain. Are there any belt drive manufacturers   other than Gates? Gates has the biggest market  share by a huge margin. They claim more than   1,000 bike models are fitted with their  drivetrains. You might have seen drivetrains from   other manufacturers too, such as Veer, Advanced,  Accord, Driveline, or Continental - which is now a   discontinued product. Veer is the most interesting  of the lot. They use a split belt design,   which means the drivetrain can be retrofitted  to any bike with adjustable dropouts. I cannot   comment on the performance or reliability, but the  Veer sprockets are currently available in just two   different gear ratios, which significantly hinders  its use. Advanced claims to operate with less   belt tension than other manufacturers thanks  to the deeper belt teeth, but there's almost   zero information about them online. What's the  difference between the Gates Carbon Drive models?   There are currently four different drivetrains:  SideTrack, CDN, CDC, and CDX. The best way to   compare these products is to look at the table  in the Gates catalog. As the products get more   expensive, the performance increases as a result  of more advanced materials. For example, inside   the belts there are two different compounds for  the teeth, and three different materials for the   carbon tensile cords. The sprockets are made using  different types of steel, as well as aluminum,   and nylon composite. The CDX drivetrain offers the  most strength, durability and weather resistance,   and can be used on the widest array of bikes.  There are now two different versions of CDX.   Regular CDX is what you've seen me using on  my Koga World traveler for half a decade.   This model uses stainless steel rear sprockets  and either stainless steel or aluminum front   sprockets depending on the number of teeth. CDX  Black sprockets are brand new this year and are   designed to be extra durable. These chromoly steel  sprockets should be better suited to torque-y   mid-drive e-bikes, and with the new fin tooth  design, should shed debris better too. Are there   any known Gates Carbon Drive problems? In 2015,  it was very easy to break the teeth on the first   generation CDN plastic coated rear sprockets. As  a solution, Gates upgraded CDN users to stainless   steel sprockets under warranty. And in 2016,  some Rohloff Hub belt sprockets developed a   creak on the original splined carrier? This issue  was resolved in 2018 with a new carrier design.   Why do some belts wear prematurely? The conditions  you cycle in are likely the biggest factor when   it comes to component wear. Gritty conditions  wear out your sprockets much quicker than clean   conditions, so make sure to clean your drivetrain  for the best mileage. High amounts of torque also   wear sprockets faster, so expect less distance  from high torque mid-drive e-bikes. If you want,   you can reduce the effective torque on your rear  sprocket by pedaling at a higher cadence, or by   employing a higher drive ratio. The rear sprocket  size is important too, as smaller sprockets have   fewer teeth engaged, and will therefore, wear  proportionately faster. I get great mileage from   my 22 tooth sprockets. A high belt tension will  result in faster wear. This is one reason why you   want a dedicated belt drive frame so that you can  employ a lower tension. Belt alignment is another   key factor. You will wear your sprockets much  faster if your belt is not perfectly straight.   Why do belts break? Belts can break from poor  alignment, insufficient tension, or internal   cord damage. If the belt rides up onto the rear  sprocket, it can damage both the belt teeth and   the internal tensile cords. This situation  occurs when there is insufficient tension,   the rear sprocket is loose on your hub, or there's  poor alignment between the sprockets. A product   called a Belt Snubber should ideally be fitted  to all belt drive bikes. These guide wheels make   it impossible for your belt to lift onto the rear  sprocket teeth. Belts can also be damaged before   they're even fitted to your bike. Twisting,  back-bending, or crimping belts can damage the   carbon cords. Ryan Van Duzer made a video about  how his user error caused a belt to snap. He   rolled his belt onto the rear sprocket, damaging  the internal cords. The lesson learned is that   if your belt comes off, take your rear wheel out,  put your belt on the rear sprocket, and then refit   your wheel. Are chains or belts more efficient?  Belt drive is just as efficient as chain drive,   but can be more or less efficient depending  on the scenario. I'm going to get a bit nerdy,   here but just know that the small differences  in drive efficiency across all these scenarios   result in virtually no difference in your riding  speed. It's the gearbox or internal gear hub   that's paired with belt drive that results  in the greatest efficiency losses - usually   somewhere between two and six percent, or slower  riding speeds of 0.25 to 0.75km/h. But this is   in perfect lab conditions. Expect the difference  to narrow when the riding conditions are muddy or   gritty. With that preamble out of the way, some  have suggested that belt drive is less efficient   than chain drive because when you spin the cranks  with your hands, you can feel some resistance. But   this test doesn't tell the full story. According  to data collected from three different lab tests,   belts do have an inferior drive efficiency at  low power outputs. This is because a belt is   always under tension, whereas a chain can run  with some slack. As we introduce more pedal   or electric power into a drivetrain, a belt  soon becomes just as efficient as a chain.   The Trier University lab test suggests the  crossover point is at 120 watts power output,   while the Friction Facts lab test suggests it's up  over 200 watts. And Universal Transmissions found   the crossover to be at just 30 Watts. Either way,  most cyclists will hit these crossover points.   Universal Transmissions (or UT) has recently  published some additional belts and chain   data that's worth discussing. Please note that  UT developed the original belt drivetrain in   partnership with Gates, and they are also the  distributor for Gates Carbon Drive in Europe.   As a result, we should remain skeptical of the  chain efficiency, resistance, and wear rate data,   as these numbers can vary significantly between  chain models and lubricants used. Alright,   let's get on to the interesting findings. The  first is with regard to the drive efficiency   on worn chains and belts. The data suggest  that worn belts run more efficiently than   worn chains after both 5,000 kilometers  and 10,000 kilometers. In fact, the belt at   10,000 kilometers was running more efficiently  than the chain at 5,000 kilometers. This is simply   because the chain gets longer over time and can no  longer mesh as well with the sprockets. How about   if we use a new chain with the 5,000 kilometer  old sprockets? That's also less efficient than   a belt after the same distance. But keep in  mind you'll go through multiple chains over the   lifespan of one belt. This means the efficiency of  a belt drivetrain continually reduces over time,   while the chain will jump between 96 and  98% efficient, depending on how worn it is.   The other interesting test was regarding belt  drive efficiency at low, medium, and high   tensions. This test shows that low tension is the  best at most power outputs, but by 50 Watts, all   belt tensions are within one percent, suggesting  tension plays a minor role in cycling speed. If you've made it to the end here, you  deserve an honorary Ph.D. in belt drive.   Congratulations! Many world bike travellers  have now demonstrated in the worst riding   conditions possible that belt drive bikes are  long-lasting, strong, and low maintenance.   If you prioritize durability and ease of use  over everything else, belt drive is the best   drive option available. I recommend belts for  touring, commuting, bikepacking, cargo hauling,   and recreational riding, in particular. However,  belts are not the best for every application. If   you want the fastest and lightest bike, you will  still be best served by chains and derailleurs.   To learn more about gearboxes, check out my  videos on affordable Shimano internal gear hubs,   as well as Rohloff hubs, pinion gearboxes,  and Effigear gearboxes. There are also a   bunch of new gearboxes coming in for 2023  - I'll link all of these videos down below.
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Channel: CYCLINGABOUT
Views: 2,101,921
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: belt drive, chain drive, belt bicycle, bicycle belt, gates carbon drive, gates cdx, rohloff, pinion gearbox, shimano alfine, alfine hub, digital drive, bicycle, ebike, futuristic, gearbox, drivetrain, e-bike, electric bike, belt drive bike
Id: PhXTl7gApVA
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 23min 6sec (1386 seconds)
Published: Tue Apr 04 2023
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