Australia's First Gangster | Johnathan "Chow" Hayes | True Crime Central

foreign [Music] I'll have it for you tomorrow [Applause] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] let's be a bad eye sucks huh [Music] meet John Frederick Chow Hayes Australia's first gangster he was a violent standover man and convicted murderer for over three decades he wreaked havoc on the streets of Sydney foreign the very name brought fear to the people of Sydney for three decades through dramatized scenes first-hand accounts and Analysis of Hayes life Australian crime stories will Trace his career from Child Thug to celebrity criminal for just 23 years of age Hayes was described in the New South Wales criminal register as a robber gangster and thief the term gangster had only recently been coined in the United States with the rise of organized crime figures like Al Capone and Charles Lucky Luciano but this was no throwaway line the police considered Hayes to be Australia's first gangster Chase was a violent Outsider from the get-go he had a reputation of being a nightmare of being a monster of being someone who if you opened the door and he was there you knew you were dead he's understood that as long as I am regarded as a person who will immediately resort to violence you must be scared of me and I must not ever back down my name's Fred people call me ciao ciao has certainly became the most feared gangster in Sydney don't know where it came from must be the eyes they say they're the window to the soul and maybe you didn't have one he's understood that his reputation for violence was the key to his criminal success he bashed clubbed and murdered his way to the top of Sydney's crime scene in the 1930s and he remained there for the next three decades he was not afraid to kill in front of witnesses his reputation always preceded him and he knew that anyone who saw him at his worst would be loathe to stand up in court and testify against him Hayes reveled in a gangster lifestyle yet he's one true love Topsy was a squeaky clean housewife who stood by her man despite being eyewitness to one of his murders Hayes only ever admitted to killing on five occasions however most believed that the real number is at least double that including the Gunning down of an unknown gangster outside a nightclub in Sydney foreign while painting Hayes for the prestigious Archibald portrait prize artist Bill Leake asked him to confirm whether the bad eyesight story was true when I was painting him I said ciao I've heard some incredibly interesting stories about you and I often wonder if they're true but he said ah to be all [ __ ] and I said I heard that there was a violent incident involving you and another man at Taylor square and the bloke selling the newspapers was the only witness to it and he said uh yeah that'd be right and he said I went back and uh bought a newspaper off in and I said I heard you gave him 20 pounds for that newspaper and he said we'll put it this way Bill it was a bloody lot of money for a newspaper Hayes criminal career extended over half a century from his first conviction for stealing a 1920 to the violent assault on a man 50 years later his record is one of the most extensive in Australian history ciao Hayes was a violent Outsider from the get-go capable of violence without restraint without lateral hindrance we have to guess that it was fueled by a great reservoir of anger a rage a man a man of the inner city working class who never did a day's work in his life a man who were killed without remorse a man who lived his life seemingly without any remorse [Music] made sure that it hit him but Almighty that I try to kill her because you didn't know whether I was going to back up or not if I back up you mean come back to get you yeah yeah 99 times the other one but they would well Tower Hayes was certainly the most feared most notorious most violent criminal of his era of the 30s 40s and 50s he was a person who believed society as he saw it was divided into square heads those who upheld the law went to church on Sundays doth there had a lady in the street gave up a seat on the bus for women and basically had nothing to do with the criminal class he on the other hand thought that it was without any remorse okay to be involved in bashing slashing razoring and eventually shooting as long as this took place among the criminals there is no doubt that he he beat up wounded man probably scores of people it came with the territory of what he did as an extortionist and a standover man he's modus operandi is violence I would say scores possibly hundreds of times he would have been involved in fights it was his currency that's what he did he threatened he he hit he fired guns at people I think people were absolutely scared out of their wits about this bloke because he had a reputation of being a nightmare of being a monster of being someone who if you opened the door he was there you knew you were dead Frederick Chow Hayes never showed a moment's remorse or regret for his murderous life feel any remorse for it now a sociopath has no remorse and doesn't have the ability to feel guilty they always blame somebody else so for somebody like Hayes who never had any remorse for murdering somebody he would have that old thought in his head while he had it coming that it's always somebody else's fault and that if he got murdered well he should have looked twice shouldn't he the world's a hostile place I'm going to get in first but I care about anybody no one's going to care about me so I don't sure as hell care about anybody else I'm going to get what I want and just if you stand in my way then that's just your tough luck John Frederick Hayes was born in 1911 in Sydney he grew up in the inner city suburb of Glebe in those days poverty and crime stricken as a boy he attacked another child the boy responded with insults calling him a dirty Chow thinking Hayes was of Asian descent the nickname Stark and Haze would be referred to as ciao for the remainder of his life when he was three years old his father who was working in the country as a ring Barker came down to Sydney and joined up with the light Horseman and went off to the first world war Hayes moved into a house down near the railway with his mother and his grandmother and his grandfather his grandfather subsequently died of the Bubonic plague in Sydney in 1920 at the same time the war had ended in 1918 so Hazard had no father figure at home from age three well the first World War was like a giant wrecking ball through the male population of Australia and particularly the cities it left families without brothers and fathers and had left a generation with a very disturbed totally absent mental generation boys the age of chow Hayes who were brought up with very shadowy fathers at best it didn't make for happy home lives in order to make full well-adjusted and focused young men don't forget in the 1920s post-world War one there are a lot of a lot of angry young men around the place a lot of likes didn't come back to live the wonderful white picket fence room they came back and they had no job and no family they'd had all sorts of horrible experiences in the first world war some would come back disfigured so that they were no strangers to to doing it rough and to living a violent life so there was no shortage of young blokes you could employ to go around and built someone if you needed to to run your crime Empire Hayes grew up in the shadows of World War One Australia's population at the start of the first world war was just five million four hundred and seventeen thousand men were enlisted over 60 000 were killed and 156 000 were wounded gassed or taken prison paiser's father was one of the thousands of soldiers who returned to Australia physically and mentally scarred by the horrors of the war [Music] thank you why didn't you want to March your father's very sick darling it's stay in bed and get his rest well everybody else is marching even Uncle Leo and he's only got one leg well Uncle Leo's lucky you can get up your father can't I don't want to go to school today well that's exactly where you're going I want to see Dad you can't darling he's in the hospital I just want to see what it looks like I'm sorry Freddie you can't you gotta go to school that's not fair I want to say Dad I want to see Dad I remember it's not well Freddie I know I know I just want to see him [Music] [Applause] [Music] oh Chad was about 11 years of age and his father was in a straight jacket at the time when he met him and I think it must have been a horrific experience for him although it he would never admit that it had been so Hayes in fact grew up with his father never being there and then dying a grandfather briefly being there when he's very young and then dying and so being in a household only with females he had no male Father Figure and he realized from when he was about eight or nine years old that in fact the women in his life were not going to assert any authority over him forensic psychologist Bob Montgomery sees the lack of a male authority figure in Hayes's Life as a major factor in his criminal development there's a long history of evidence shown the absence of a father or a father figure an adult male who shows this is proper behavior rewards acceptable behavior sets an example the absence of that has long been known as a risk factor for all forms of delinquency he's actually lost his father father figure twice that's tough for kids and what it teaches you is you can't trust relationships you get involved with someone and suddenly they'll abandon you that kind of History would say this is someone who's going to have real difficulty forming any sort of intimate close relationship with any sense of security what we need to keep in mind what we need to bear in mind is that there's lots of people especially during that era that had similar kinds of difficult childhoods the question to ask is why did shall he's end up the way that he did versus other people in similar situations turning out to be liabating citizens foreign was certainly not on his own and being without a father figure but he turned to Crime at 11 years of age Hayes started running with a gang of youths known as the railway gang Hayes and his gang of Tufts would hang around Sydney's bustling Central Railway Station and prey on new arrivals bash and Rob them Hayes and his gang became expert thieves when often shoplift from the Department Stores of Sydney Hayes may have been a clever Thief but he was so active that he was always coming to the attention of police happened to Hayes was he found himself at age 14 after half a dozen convictions for shoplifting being sent to Gosford boys home it was the classic case of the university for criminals half a dozen to a dozen of the leading criminals over the next 20 years in Sydney all went through the same process and it absolutely set Hayes on a course as far as he was concerned where he learned everything by the time he was 17 about being a criminal most of all he learned you cannot back down at any stage he was going to absolutely assert his authority in Sydney as a standover man in the future prison for a juvenile is often seen as a gladiator School you learn to become anti-social because anti-social is the norm and prisons of the adult version of that you go into prison and you go into prison with the view I have to be a certain person otherwise I'm going to be victimized in prison these kids start to get into trouble early so they start to mix with the other kids who are getting into trouble they may be sent to an institution where their actually locked up with kids who are really good at getting into trouble and we've known for a long time from American Research the worst thing you do with juvenile delinquents is put them into a treatment program with other juvenile delinquents [Music] after his release from Gosford boys home Hayes returned to crime and eventually came to the attention of one of the queens of the Sydney crime scene Kate Lee Hayes joined a network as a standover man collecting from SP bookies how much we are standing over them for oh it's by Boogie Fiverr five pound like ten dollars a day's money and if they didn't deliver that payment what would you do close it up how would you close it Smash It Up the Pieces especially about food use your razors yeah well I guess one of the main weapons in the Armory of any extortionist or standover man is a reputation for violence one thing that Hayes had in common with a number of the other successful criminals at the time was this propensity to explode into sudden rage Hayes had a reputation as having a hair trigger temper haze's biographer David hickey believes one incident in particular made Hayes's early reputation a major criminal in Sydney of the day was a guy named Frank green he's of serious Criminal Who has serious convictions Carries a Gun hay sees him at a party green comes up to Hayes and says you are eyeing off my woman and he said no I wasn't and he said yes you were and I don't like it four hours later Frank green comes out of the party and Hayes says worse the effect I've got a present for you and immediately wax him with the metal pipe across the head he goes down he's semi-conscious and Hayes then kicks him and gives him a hell of a kicking such the green is actually in hospital for the next four weeks it absolutely is one of the landmark episodes that makes Hayes reputation and he's the new guy to be feared in Sydney Chow Hayes Hayes moved into adulthood as Sydney's underworld was set to explode in what became known as the razor Wars turf wars fought in Sydney's inner suburbs between criminal gangs wielding straight races to these men an L-shaped scar on the cheek was a badge of honor Hayes too carried a razor but he instinctively understood that he needed to up the anti if the most violent men of Sydney carried razors well Hayes would do one better Chow Hayes would turn to the gun foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] he's asking me [Music] I was just wondering how a man can call himself a man when he bludges off shirtless boy you look like you should be shining shoes on George Street if you want to get any older you'll keep your mouth shut finish your beard and walk out slowly [Music] hey son what's a good day for a bludger then it was a good day for a man who takes these orders from an old [ __ ] and a brothel [Music] go back to school some before you get hurt you're gonna have to do better than that blodger my name's Fred people call me Chow you tell that old mole Divine I want 50 Quid in my hand every week and as she falls behind in the payments I'm gonna come and find you and I'm gonna shoot you and I'll shoot every bludgeoned bastard like you she sends around to back you up you'll need an army I've got one You've Won and if I get any more cheek out of you I'll wipe the floor with your bloodstained carcass then I'll pay her a visit ciao Heist remember the name utilizio's ciao Haze she ain't gonna like this I'm not asking her to like it I'm telling her to cop it's sweet unlike anywhere else in the world these razor gangs popped up the Riser is a frightening Dreadful symbol I mean it's not like in the United States and Chicago where you might came up with a Tommy Gun and let somebody have it from a distance of 50 meters you can conceal them anywhere in a sock in your coat and your hat and when they come out you come up to someone and you're so close you can smell them and just the fear that would you you can imagine when someone produces one of these things and you know you're going to be cut wide open it's just a dreadful weapon and do you remember carrying a razor yes oh yes yeah how would you use it just slash it across where or forward nose advice GSR anyway a pretty Lethal Weapon yeah very little what happened next in your career I've got a gun bit do you remember your first weapon yeah what was it 38. ciao Hayes was one of those people who was okay with guns he liked guns he was not afraid to use a gun so Chow's response to a razor would have been pull a gun this put him in a class separate from most others like him use the gun if necessary and should to kill [Music] he saw no threat from men wielding raises he knew his notoriety is the toughest man in Sydney was based on him always being the quickest cruelest and most violent by the 1930s Hazard established himself as one of the most feared men in Sydney he routinely shot and wounded men who stood in his way he knew he would not survive as a standover man unless he was prepared to go further than the competition Hayes had a close association with Kate Lee but that didn't stop him attacking her foot soldiers in 1936 ciao shot one of Kate Lee's henchmen Jack Baker posted the last Standard Hotel and by cavity just coming from Melbourne found that lady's name was Baker who yeah I see what I was doing there I said I've got a CLK you know he said yeah I'm looking after you see if we know what you're there and he'd come over you know singlet fragments muscle what do you want I want to give you this present I shall be afraid does three dogs in the stomach then in 1945 Hayes murdered Sydney criminal Eddie Wayman shooting him five times as he lay in his bed Hayes was charged with the murder but was acquitted on trial he was also in and out of prison for other crimes six months here a year there but he saw his spells behind bars as an occupational hazard through the 1920s 30s and 40s leading up to the war 10 has an unbelievable criminal record where there's dozens of appearances in court he never quite got that in fact Harvey's life was ebbing away until he was a very old man when he suddenly realized he'd spent more than half his life in jail what he just understood was this is my life it's almost my occupation because all he cared about was as soon as he was out of jail you had to quickly re-establish that you were the toughest guy in Sydney your reputation relied on that so that you could automatically collect the standard without having to do much about it if if you didn't there will be other young up-and-comers who would want to who were born to establish their reputation as the toughest man in Sydney and he wasn't going to let that happen no matter what forensic psychologist Stephen Barron sees haze's single-mindedness his behavior typical of a psychopath people who have psychopathy are extremely anti-social they have their own set of rules which are grounded on their own experience and value systems and those value systems and rules that they live by often bear no resemblance to the ones that you and I are supposed to live by Psychopaths occupy lawyers officers the CEOs of companies they're highly successful charismatic Charming productive people are supposed to get to top of the food chain you need a certain level of focus and Psychopaths have this kind of focus they're ambitious their families come second third and fourth and they do the job that they have to do to the best of their ability and that's their value system one of his most infamous Deeds was the murder of Bobby Lee in 1951. Lee was a boxer who had banged heads with members of haze's gang and he knew that Hayes would come looking for him Lee decided to get in first he went to Hayes home and shot and killed his nephew Danny Simmons in a case of mistaken identity Hayes was supposed to be at home one night just listening to the radio at home in fact he went out but his nephew Danny Simmons did stay home listening to the radio and while he was sitting in the lounge room somebody which in fact was Bobby Lee snuck up and shot Danny Simmons through the window of chow Hayes's house believing it was ciao subsequently over the next couple of weeks Hayes and his key Ally of the time Joey hollibone make rage at it in the evening on a couple of houses because they've had tips Bobby Lee is staying there in fact they missed Lee but the word gets around that Hayes and Hollow bone are busted into several houses looking for you and the Hooters on they had guns they're going to finish you [Applause] [Music] thank you oh look at that Oregon you Bluff them for you baby right I'll rise year 10. [Music] you'd better not be have a look at me come on okay then foreign [Music] [Music] [Applause] boys it's that time [Music] you're not gonna try and Bluff hazelian please bluffing me mate I've got him Running Scared it's not what I hear what are you here oh he's got ears all over town looking for you just keep your eyes open the air open hey why don't you come down to the zig Phil room tonight there's a new bird on for the Philippines you'd never pick her as a fella they reckon oh mate family night tonight I'd like to getting their gear off I don't know you came to watch me fight I'll leave you to it watch out for Hayes all right he's not going to shoot me at the Ziegfeld room is he it'd be 300 people there I'll be sweet I'll watch out for him with one ear and I'll have the other ear on the Filipina foreign [Music] after three or four weeks Hayes gets a red hot tip the Bobby Lee tonight will be at the zig Field Club in King Street in Sydney and this was Ciao's opportunity to go down there and get back at him for the shooting of Danny Simmons he made a fatal Mistake by telling his wife that he was going to the Ziegfeld room and she said I love to go dancing and of course he wasn't in a position to say well actually I'm not going there to dance I'm going down there to shoot somebody when they arrive at the zinc Pearl Club there's between 80 and 100 people already in there Grog is Flowing there's lots of noise and Hayes immediately sees that Bobby Lee is in fact at a table down in the club as soon as Bobby Lee saw a chow at the bar he surrounded himself with people at a table for obvious reasons and refused to move Hayes decides it's now or never he goes over to the table where Lee is Lee is startled to see Hayes there and Chow comes up to him and he says something like you know well you know you're not going to do anything to me he was sitting in a room full of people and ciao just gets his gun out and says something like you're gonna [ __ ] get yours Bang Bang Bang on the ground right through the head apparently the force of the the impact of the bullet threw about 10 feet back off his chair and shall very calmly walked around stood over the top of him and pumped a few more bullets into his head very impulsive in their behavior Reckless and irresponsible and again their violence is instrumental so for what we might see as kind of a behavior where he just snapped Hayes might have just this might have been just within his character to go and behave that way without regard for the consequences and again remorselessly Hayes went on the run but was captured weeks later however not one witness came forward to identify him as the killer there were two mistrials before Hayes finally pleaded guilty he did so only because he feared that his wife Topsy would be charged with being an accessory to the murder Hayes was sentenced to hang but he managed to dodge the hangman's noose when the New South Wales government took capital punishment off the books however he spent the next 20 years in prison meanwhile his life on the outside fell apart his wife Topsy who had witnessed him murdered Bobby Lee began to visit less frequently Hayes had always been proud that his wife was a square head in other words not part of the criminal set she had loved her husband but his long period of incarceration placed great strain on that love Hayes had a daughter also named Topsy and she too was beginning to turn her back on her father increasingly Hayes found himself alone in the world psychologist Janet Hall believes even a man like Hayes would have felt the loss of his wife and family the need to have that attachment to know that there is somebody there who cares she was the mother of his child and the matriarch of the household and so it it would have helped him keep sane to have that sense of belonging he seemed me to be very proud of the fact that he had I wife who he was able to describe as a square head she was a nurse and was never really fully aware of what he was up to which was an incredible thing because as Sydney's probably most notorious gangster it must have been pretty hard to keep it hidden from his own wife and he said she was a squared but he said it with great pride prison held no fears for Hayes and neither did The Hangman's noose he has no emotional feeling about being hanged that's the sentence that's what it is as far as he was concerned it made no difference it was just the latest conviction on his criminal record and he had no emotional feeling about the fact he's been sentenced to hang of course history intervenes and the New South Wales government changes the law and hanging in no longer going to take place in this state and Hayes's sentence is commuted to what was then life imprisonment and subsequently becomes a 20-year sentence and he will eventually get out of jail do you reckon you should have hanged oh yes yes in jail pays used the only skills he had extortion and standover tactics prison is a tough place and some of the young Crooks would not let Hayes have things his own way in 1969 he was set upon by a group of prisoners at Parramatta jail and savagely bashed he had so many scars in books I knocked about and I said and what about this ear of yours Joe I said the one that actually appears in the painting which was his right ear and he goes uh yes yes like bitter bit out of it once and that's when I realized I was looking at a perfect bite shape you know that's just gone out of his ear he said doctors said they um could have said it back on but he chewed it up a bit first tell you the truth bill I never found out who it was like a bit of me which left me to wonder how on Earth a man can go around biting other people's ears off anonymously Russell Cox told me a story about his in a Long Bay and ciao Hayes are sent a message over he said he wanted some tobacco Russell Cox said get your own body tobacco and he said mrso he said do you know who I am [Music] he said just give me some tobacco and uh and Russell said I'm not going to give you back I stick it up your ass your old boss and get nothing out of me and Charlie said you want to mind your man or son he said otherwise you could get blown off Russell send him back immediately say all right I'll see you when you get out and you can come and blame your head off your stupid old fart you know but he realized then that he lost the plot in his intelligence trying to stand over some young kid for his tobacco and the young kid told him to go and get [ __ ] ciao I just realized then he's um you know he must have lost it you do mature you do slow down you do get an ability to start to see some sense of perspective in what you're doing and that applies to a lot of criminals biology genetics heredity is not Destiny we can learn to manage our makeup but you take the ciao Hayes case and he was threatening people right to the end there was no no amelioration with age there [Music] foreign was released in 1973 he'd spent 18 years in prison for the murder of Bobby Lee but Hayes was not one to leave his criminal past behind him just six months out of jail 62 years old Hayes got into a fight in an inner city bar in glass demand Hayes was arrested and returned to jail for five more years in 1978 he was released from prison for the last time having spent more than half of his life in jail gotcha take a second [Music] congratulations my four well you're the owner of the largest corrective Services file in the history of New South Wales man does his best two murders serious assaults theft property damage is that all people's lives probably not you're 66 Channel you've never done a day's work in your life and you've got no skills um I'm inclined to think that you're probably be on Rehabilitation look at me mate couldn't pull a skin off a rice pudding I'm sure I'm gonna go pick a fight so what are you going to do with yourself maybe I'll write a book about my life have you ever written anything before a pretty good start right there oh ciao you left school when you were 12. you're what we call a functional illiterate I'll get someone else to write it for me hello I'll find someone I was always pretty good at getting people to do it over now that's a problem ciao we can't have you going back into society and wreaking havoc I mean the Press are going to have a field day or an Allison Frank he's the drum all my enemies are dead all my mates are either in the ground or coffin chasing I'm over it I just want a quiet life I won't be back in here a girl would have called your release in a free man channel [Music] it would have been a baffling and difficult Sydney and particularly inner Sydney for chow when he got out in 77 there were blokes with long hair and beards and funny shirts smoking funny drugs a lot of the old hard people that moved out to the new suburbs outside Sydney for any offender who spends a fair amount of time within a prison is like their maturation just stops So for anybody who has done Life by the installment plan when they actually come out that generally not only has life passed them by the people that they may have cared about may have moved on technology must have moved on all those kinds of things and so the the criminal background that Hayes relied on had largely changed and now it was the drug trade most of the people that he knew for many decades had either died or had grown old or disappeared and he found himself almost with nothing to do and no understand over there was no longer a place for a criminal whose time seemed Generations ago and Hayes found himself as a fish out of water he might have simply faded away but his ego would not allow it he still wanted to be a man to be reckoned with in 1987 Hayes approached Australian journalist David hickey he wanted his story told initially reluctant hickey agrees to meet with him he was interested in exploring the psyche of a Greek criminal like Hayes while hickey's aims were of an academic nature it's clear that Hayes Wanted to cash in on his criminal past of typing and then two years of editing those transcripts and talking them through with various other people in the criminal world and other police that I wanted to check all the facts with the book was published in 1990 and we then went on the celebrated author tour in fact no one was interested in the author everyone was interested in the subject ciao who was by that stage an old man nevertheless had a presence that anybody at any of the radio stations or the TV stations who met him will never forget can you understand that for a person like me it's a strange sensation to sit opposite a man who's one of the most brutal murderers that this state has ever known yeah and it doesn't move you doesn't it do you think that's because you're old now and it's really in the past no I wouldn't remove me in the young days he was a man who he would walk in he would sit behind the radio microphone he would be asked the first question without blinking an eye he would give the details of how he brutally murdered someone how he shot someone what he thought about that and every interviewer without exception would almost recoil in horror as they realized he was a person who was just had absolutely no compunction about telling them I took a person's life here I am what do you want to know years later I'm a business is yours how many times did you shoot him all right in his old age Hayes tapped into the growing fascination with violent crime and Criminal in Australia it's often referred to as the Ned Kelly phenomenon the mythologizing of Outlaws and murderers like Hayes so Nick Kelly phenomenon it exists in many many cultures we miss out we mythologize and we we hold them up as being Heroes of some sort against Authority which is often faceless and punitive and overreaching but gangsters I think it really is about us inside of us the interest we have with people who are interestingly different and a little dangerous Australians seem to have a fascination with criminals but you forget that their their like a funnel web spider like they're okay to talk about with your mates down the pub but you don't want one in the kitchen you know you don't want to Chow Hayes at home I got this idea that I really wanted to paint Chow Hayes you know first because he you know he was such a villain and as Australians we Revere our villains and I've always regretted that nobody got an opportunity to do a painting of Ned Kelly before he died if someone had done that it'd be Australia's equivalent of the Mona Lisa because a painting from life gives the viewer an opportunity to know what it was like to share the same space with that person breathe the same air and so I became convinced that I had a historical responsibility to paint this Blake there was something dead about his eyes he was like a lizard he'd only blink about every 10 minutes and he could look you straight in the eye and just by looking at you you could feel very very uneasy don't know where it came from must be the eyes they say they're the window to the soul and maybe you didn't have one pays the gangster had transformed himself into a celebrity criminal Australia's first but by no means last while posing for League's portrait it became clear Hayes was Ill he was riddled with cancer death was catching up with the old Moon [Music] as good as a dying man can yeah [Music] can I get you now yeah there is one thing yeah you know that clown used to work in the papers they're Dave yeah that's him do you think he can find him yeah I can find out can you do that he owes me a few Bob oh look I don't know about that challenge got six grand by my Reckoning the sixth grade [Music] I've only got a little bit of time left until that Maggie's known friend of mine he owes me six large yeah okay man I'll tell him but just settle yourself down okay you tell that bastard if he doesn't pay me he's got big problems take it easy if I have to crawl out of this bit and drag myself down there to find him myself and I will and after I finish calling down there I'll [ __ ] shoot him you tell him yeah well take it easy mate have people taking [ __ ] off actually United he was in sex pool at such a terrible State and he was coughing up shards of his lungs I think I couldn't tell what it was but it didn't look too good to me and I I passed on regards from David hickey because I told David that I was going out there to see him the next day or something I just said don't talk to me about icky and I said boy I said because he robbed me he honestly believed that the book that David wrote about him was going to be an international bestseller he seriously believed that David was squirreling away millions and I said ah so I said are you still a bit dirty on him mate she isn't dirty he said Bill I'm gonna shoot him and I said I don't think you're in a fit state to do that mate and he said if I have to crawl in there I'm gonna go into his office at the Sydney Morning Herald and I'll wait outside his door and when he comes out I'll bloody will shoot him I said to him every time I saw him ciao there's no money in this book there's no money in this project you know I'm telling you I'm interested in the psychology of the Criminal Mind however even up to his deathbed he is still interested in threatening from the bed you owe me the money you know I've you've made a lot going to make money out of this project and I want the money he just couldn't move away from the fact that the stand hover had been there for 40 years the threats and he's you know he's got weeks to live that's where he is there is a mythology out there that that psycho Powers burn out or that they you know eventually be you know develop a conscience of those kinds of things we don't generally see that development of gosh I'm sorry that kind of remorsefulness and and begging forgiveness so the psychopathic Criminal Who who Revels in his own um grandiosity his own reputation who sees his evil dangerous background or something to be held up as being Ultra masculine that makes him separate he's kind of not wanting to learn and do you feel any remorse for it now does that strike you as odd not really oh it's either then those tough days that we get to gather to well it wasn't really either you or them you could have walked away from most of them oh yes could have walked away but you'd have lost face Joe Hayes went to his grave completely unrepented nearing his death he remarked to build League that he measured the worth of a man by the number of people at his funeral if the cemetery was full of mourners Hayes believed the man had lived a full life and had been respected by his peers Hayes was buried in a simple ceremony in front of just five people the old gangster who had murdered his way to the top of Sydney's Mean Streets was gone and despite his notoriety few cared when he died foreign [Music]

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Id: 2oVFyP9dSWM

Length: 50min 11sec (3011 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 07 2022