ATC water cooled Spindle seized. Fully dissected

so here's my automatic tool changing spindle off a Chinese CNC router what happened was the wrong buttons got pushed and we dropped at all while it was spinning at 24 grand now the spindle ceased I can't find anything online about how to resolve this so the only really way to find out is to get into it and find out how it works I took the back off before there's a piston in here which pushes a push rod through to the pull stud clamp which is in the end here but without taking the front off I wasn't able to get right into it and see why this shaft is really seized I had to make some custom tools here to be able to undo this this is done up with some kind of Loctite which gets softer with heat so used to heat gun I machines down a sacrificial tool holder to stop the shaft spinning while I was undoing that this is what a normal one would look like I had to take that off so I could so wouldn't interfere with my tool in these pieces yep so now hopefully I'll be able to get right into it and figure it out hopefully it's not by the way there is a port you can just put compressed air straight into that to operate the tool change while it's on the workbench the other two don't do that just this one yep just taking this first ring off well second ring if you include this one but yeah one thing to note is this earring here which is just mashed it doesn't have any seat I think that goes to a to a bleed grub screw here for maybe the coolant or something like that because it's a water-cooled spindle there is actually a seat here for a smaller eye ring which it didn't have so we're on to the second segment from the front of the spindle now it's hard to see but there's a small line here there's a another plate now I've taken all the yelling keys out it's not just coming off easily there are some threaded unused threaded holes on two of them there's two of them and I'm guessing that they too whined a screw in to push the plate off because the bearings will be a press fit I know there's some screws on the back into the spindle that will fit for that purpose so I'll pull the back off now and yeah right have just taken all the screws out of the back they're a bit longer these are the two that I think are going to help me get the plate on the front off now there will be some eye rings in here to be aware of yeah they do have seats so they tend to stay put but um you don't have to put the camera down or they maneuver this is that first back plate off your earrings and seats this time here's the first piston there seems to be two Pistons I noticed when I first attempted pulling this all apart yesterday now at first yesterday when I first pulled this apart it didn't feel like this wanted to come off but it was just in tight it just it's just a nice fit so yeah this is a piston which runs from compressed here and this must hit this piston which seems to be really spring-loaded and but with a clamp you can get it to move forwards a little bit probably as much as that depth well this is as far as I've got so far I wasn't able to get this back piece off and I'm assuming it was because I didn't undo that that nut I think it's all holding the whole thing together from the front so I had to go away and put the whole thing back together so I could use the air compressor to to work the mechanism in here just so that I could put my tool holder in which I'd turned down to stop it from spinning while I undid it with with this yeah so I've got these these screws and into these threaded holes now these screws that I got off off the bat and I reckon they're gonna help me to separate this front desk and probably maybe take that front bearing with it so I'm just gonna go real easy I don't want to force anything yes so slowly winding these off it's much faster and smoother with two allen keys just go real gently and yeah this ring here is just popped forwards just come unseated yeah I actually thought that was bearing at first but it's looks like some kind of dust cap or what's in there yeah so I'll put that down there my chain of events so we're getting there yeah a few times it felt like it didn't want to go anymore and I try to be in at the back I couldn't do anything I just put a bit more pressure on and it popped forward again I think it's a probably a fair bit of pressure from bearings which are press fitted which might be a problem when reassembling as I don't have a press but I'm sure there'll be one in town yeah anyway there's a bit of water coming out now well radiator fluid which put a bucket under it to catch shouldn't be much and I notice there's a another ring seated here too I'm sure there's gonna be overhangs on every layer those other bolts weren't long enough I'm hoping these ones will be back in business these ones head slightly longer threads hopefully it's enough to get this cap off just borrowed them from somewhere all right few more pops and it feels like it's about to go completely you know I've got a feeling there's a pretty big spring in the spindle somewhere which which the air piston works against for the auto tool change so I've put a clamp over the back just in case it hangs out shoots out across the floor or something like that it would be a shame if it got dented now run out of thread but I've got this first bearing is now free with the spindle shaft and I'm at a second eye ring here you can see the corrosion where the water cooling happens despite the anti-corrosion anti steam antifreeze radiator fluid that could have been rusty from the factory yeah but it does feel pretty loose now so I might be able to pull the rest off by hand I'm hoping because I don't think I've got any longer threaded screws that size nothing's come flying off the back yet but there's been a few moments where it felt like something could have just putting a pecker in so I can keep using those screws and I'll change the pistons and a bit of machine clamp yeah there's still got a fair bit of tension on it from the other bearings but um it's still popping as it comes out step by step okay I got this piece out they had one normal bearing a spacer and then this seems to be part of a ceramic bearing which surprises me that it easily left behind it's in a race seems like it's not meant to take it with it looking at the shape of it so yeah just been half an hour finding my old little earring puller and hopefully I'll be able to get that in a race off and get shaft out and see what's causing it to cease I've got the inner race off the shaft and returned it to where it goes hopefully it's all good when we go back together right so in here right in the very center you see the little Hicks now that looks like that little hits the black Hicks hole is that fits a two point five mil allen key that's not actually it or maybe that's something but I'm around that it's hard to see but there's actually a five mil Hicks and you need to get right in there with an allen key and undo that it's anti-clockwise so it's a normal thread now I actually broke the ball off on my first attempt and I was able to push it out with a magnet so I recommend going in with a square end allen key I just ground this one flat after it snapped and yeah I've been able to loosen it now it's pretty tight still but I'm here you need pliers or some extra leverage on there take care not to scratch yeah tapered shaft in there yep well this is getting looser it's also nice to see the shaft spinning a bit more freely and is is I further undo this the spec sections starting to come off this piston here is moved out a lot I've got a bolt in here to stop the whole thing just falling out yes I think we're onto a winner it's looking very hopeful right we seem to be undone from that end so yeah now I can pull this out and a boat's gonna hold it all on mm-hmm all right okay so go in there and investigate so when I pulled the section off two of these little washers came out fell out on the floor so that's something to be mindful of I think they were just stuck on the end here with grease looks like there's more of them in here I think these spring washers because of the cone shape they're not completely flat and my understanding is that a whole lot of these go back to back and they squish up black that makes a spring something like that if there makes sense to you it looks like there's probably a whole stack of them in there and I think that's where my problem is with the shaft seizing because I think it was spinning at 24 grand and then these got compressed and contacted the outside inside diameter the tube there and but that's just my hypotheses at the moment little blue bolts in here I think they are proximity sensors they send a signal to the machine based on the position of this shaft here whether the tool is in the spindle is in released mode or clamped mode so that's meant to yeah let the Machine know it's had a successful tool change or not based on where it is in the g-code program and the readout from the proximity sensors here right so we're just taking off this one have just undone these bolts down to be some earrings some sealant all that jazz all right I'm gonna need both hands a couple of small earrings to be careful of they're their own seats so they they're likely to stay put and there's a proximity sensors and here's what we have there we straight I ring that he's meant to be on there hmm you're gonna be real careful of those little guys so that must be our push rod to go to the pool stop clamp so here's more of those spring washers so we were undoing that allen key and we were unscrewing that thread there in the middle from the push rod which was screwed into this which which is one of the two Pistons and there's two Pistons this one pushes into this one and and then this one must be because here comes in this way too to help release it and suck it up and hold the tool there hmm so anyway what I'm doing now is I'm gonna push that whole mechanism out get all those spring washers out and have a look there it is nice and gentle so I think I've found the problem and what I think it is is that this component here is meant to be out of spin independently of this piston this is the piston that pulls up and engages the tool clamp and it's spring-loaded unlike this one which pushes and against this piston to push the push rod Ward to open and unclamp so I think what happened was this was all spinning at 24 ground the tool disengagement piston pushed into the back of this piston which contacted something spinning at 24 ground and spin welded it so something in between this component and the piston has been welded together because and I think that because there's no possible way to just assemble this assembly without see with us that we get without this piece unscrewing from from there somehow in it and it's fully stuck I mean of there's two flex on it here sixteen mill spinner can't undo it that's even after drilling two holes in the piston and sitting them on two little stubs to stop the whole thing rotating to get leverage so I'm probably going to take to it with a grinder just to confirm my theory but um yeah hopefully I'll be able to get a new clamping piston assembly from the manufacturer or yeah probably a whole new spindles well probably get a spindle and and a new clamping piston assembly so that way I could have reassemble the spindle and have a spear yeah expensive mistake don't push the wrong buttons do you think that build them to not be affected by that happening yeah I think all the electronics inside the spindle are undamaged and the cloud of smoke that happened when it dropped the tool at 24 grand was from friction from this being friction welded and so yes since that happened the spindle would still spin but it was very stiff because now now we're like spinning this whole assembly including the piston and it turns slowly and stiffly yep now this is all just my theories I could be wrong but um I don't see what else could it could be really hmm these are all the washes that make up the the spring the pushrod spring so yeah they go in groups of four back to back and back to back they're all slightly cone-shaped so they go down this whole rod and they should be well greased very well greased I just want to make a note that that this is discolored not from my hypothesized spin weld event but it's discolored from me heating it trying to trying to break the join if there was like a lock tight or something in that thread if it's a thread that I was trying to undo which I was unable to undo even with a lot of leverage and really locking that piston on these two stubs and really getting there with a spanner and extra leverage the spanner as you can see ended up just rounding those flats off so yeah backed off that's after getting it blue hot you know so um yes she's really seized on there some here right so I've just ground ground that off and it's suspected we can see here that there were two separate components maybe on a thread maybe maybe it's just a boss that spins inside a tube and is now welded I don't know from this cross-section I'm guessing it's a thread of some kind apart a anyway I'll find out soon because now be able to take this piston out now that this piece is cut off and further diagnosed just been further dissecting I noticed this hole in the middle stops about four miles deep and there's also a hole in this shaft somewhere it is I believe this hole is meant to continue at the top at the top there through the end here through the hole there through the push rod to there is actually a hole right through there you might be able to see it it's not to get a camera lined up there you go and I yeah that gives the ear right through for for the ear that clears the chips during tool change yes that's mental of it ear right through so that was that hole was blocked and there's yeah where I cut it it wasn't very deep but um there are signs that suggest friction welding you can see where the inner part is you can see the inner circle on that that was from that part which which is meant to be that piece which yeah maybe it's even meant to be a contact free little boss that spins inside a tube but it's welded together now so I put my stubborn the lathe and I'm just skimming back to to see how deep the inner part protruded and the first few skims were smooth and easy the whole way across and now it's just the outside that's nice to cut and I get to this in a bit which is the diameter or the protruding rod and it's much harder let's see there a different steel or that's where I met the layer of the friction world but yeah that's confirming my theory anyway so here I'm just trying to punch out that inner peace mainly to find out if it is threaded or if it's just Rob sitting inside a tube that is not meant to have contact and now it's been welded so if this comes out cleanly which it looks like it's going to then I know that it wasn't threaded in there and it was meant to just be sitting in there and yeah well then I know why the spindle is seized I still will have a Caesar spindle well spend or needing a spare part right so you can see you're you see that taper that I've turned in there so I was really digging in there to see her see if it would just in a piece would just separate but it didn't it took punching or pressing out with device which shows how thick that spin world was how solid of a joint it was and I can see here by looking closely at this that it was not a threaded insert it was just a little stub to help locate the end of the push rod in the end of the piston and it's not meant to have contact so this piece here it was on the end of the piston like this in this piece here - the screw it was on the end of this and and that would just sit in there in the the push rod would screw in the end here so that threaded anymore in that little boss which is now attached to the screw just spun around inside that and it should only contact when the spindle stopped and the tube the ear hold was meant to blow here right through that and then in turn through that through the push rod and I believe in some circumstances you could even get it through the post stud or maybe that's through spindle coolant I think this is just for ear actually just to clear chips during tool change so there you have it spin welding right so here's a bit of breakdown of how it all works so here's your pool stud clamp this is your push rod these are your push rod spring washers so this whole assembly here spins in the spindle and we're all it's spinning none of this context any of these Pistons these pneumatic Pistons these spring washers pulling the push rod up which is keeping the clamp in a tighter tubing holding on to the pool stud on your tool holder and only when the spindle is stopped will this bec piston push forwards and it pushes into the back of this piston which then pushes against these Springs and and and their boss pushes against this with this little boss going into into the ring on the end of that one now that's where we got the spin world because it was spinning really fast so this piston here of this second piston this pushes back that way now there must be to ensure disengagement of the tool unclamping mechanism so so that's got ya extra spring loading and a piston pushing the other way to make sure that that gets disengaged from the push rod before the spindle starts spinning again if you push the wrong button and manually make it happen while it's spinning you're wolf back your spindle [Music] yeah that's that's what happened and you've got a few proximity sensors in here to communicate the position of the Pistons to the CNC computer now there is a hole that's meant to deliver air from here through here through the push rod and out to clear the chips when torque changing so while it's spinning it's all disengaged and it's relying on the spring washers on the push rod to keep the push rod up and keep that held onto your tool in my opinion there should be a some kind of a flat bearing here so if it does engage while it's spinning it won't weld but but there's not well I hope that it helps anyone who encounters the same issue I heard and I couldn't find any information on the internet really about the spindle I was just hypothesizing against all the other schematics on more popular spindles and trying to figure out where the issue could be on mine and how to get to it and how to find the spare part and I think I'm going to have to get a whole new releasing piston assembly and push rod end now this end actually unscrews from the push rod it's a separate piece there's an o-ring here and that guides it through some grease and in the end of the spindle here yeah

Channel: Zone 2

Views: 9,493

Keywords: ATC, Spindle, HQD Spindle, water cooled spindle, 3.2kw water cooled spindle seized, seized spindle, spindle problems, spinweld, friction weld spindle, broken atc spindle, HQD spindle, CNC mistakes, how an ATC spindle works, inside a chinese spindle, Chinese ATC Spindle

Id: 7jd1AieyO_0

Length: 37min 26sec (2246 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 27 2019