- On this episode, the legend stops by. (lively hip hop music) You ask questions. And I answer them. This is The #AskGaryVee Show. How do I do the intro again? Hey, everybody, this is Gary Vaynerchuk? - [Voiceover] And this
is episode (mumbles). - I just did Wine Library TV,
which I have a different-- - Uh-oh. - No, is this, what is
this supposed to be? - [Voiceover] It really is 184. - Oh, it's 184, so I'll call it 185. - I'm just gonna make up
whatever comes out of my. Hey, everybody, this is Gary Vay-ner-chuk, and this is episode 184, five? - [India] Four. - Supposed to be four, but
we're gonna go with 185. We're gonna skip 184, Seth. I know we like to call you the guru. This is the real guru. 185 of The #AskGaryVee Show, and I am fired up! You know what, I pushed against guru, too. I am fired up.
- I can tell. - About having you here. I'm in a really--
- [Seth] India's here. - [Gary] India's here. - Brittany's here. - The whole crew's here. - Staphon's here. - But who's really here is
really one of the true pioneers is really one of the true pioneers of the modern marketing movement. Somebody that I've gotten to
know over the last half decade, and it's been a real pleasure
because you get to know, I've enjoyed the
relationships that I've gotten from the other side, people
that are coming up the game, they've gotten to know me, we're friends. I feel very, very honored for you to be here on this show, Seth. Please, please tell the one
person in the VaynerNation who's watching this right now
who doesn't know who you are. A little 47-second bio or
however you like to roll. How would you like to say hello. - I notice things for a living, and try to point them out to people. I'm a teacher. I've started a couple companies. More than a couple, I do projects, and I try to make a
ruckus, that's a good day. - That is a good day, and it's been a good life that way. - I'm not complaining. It's been a thrill and a privilege. - Seth, how many books have you written? - Well, there's 18 bestsellers when I was like an official author. - That is so ludicrous. - [Seth] But before that-- - [Gary] I'm like pumping out my fourth-- - [Seth] Oh, come on. - [Gary] Four is very-- - [Seth] You know what, it
doesn't look good on you. - [Gary] 18.
- It doesn't look good on you. - I'm gonna go for 19.
You know that, right? It's like a Tiger Woods-Jack
Nicholson type thing. Is it 18? - It's 18. - I swear on my cheddar
I'm gonna go for 19. - When I was a book packager, I did a book a month for 10 years. So, those other books,
but then there's 18. - So, a little bit, just
because I think it's gonna be quite enjoyable for the
audience, I know that for a fact. A little bit deeper. Tell
you sold the company yahoo. Indulge me here for a little minute. Where did you start out? - I would say the big turning point was helping to invent commercial
email as we know it that's not spam. That when I started doing it in 1991 most people did not have an email address. - That's right. - And persuading backers that
we were going to invent a way that email could be used, think about any email you got
today that you wanted to get that came from a company, not a person. That didn't exist before we did it. And, so, Yoyodyne was the
business that we built to do that. Before that, I was book packager. Before that I worked at a
educational computer game company. We invented pretty much commercial educational computer games like Kids on Keys and Fraction Fever. And I had a line of science fiction games. It was great fun. When I was 24, it was so
lucky that I got that job. That was pretty cool. - Of the 14 best-sellers
that you've written. - 18. You're subtracting already. - I'm trying. That was subliminal. That means that I need 14 more. - Is there a new Gary Vee book coming out? - Yes, but we don't
need to talk about that. - I hear it's called #AskGaryVee, and then you can pre-order
it on Amazon right now. - I'm gonna have to make
volume 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14. No, that's eight. That's tomorrow. Seth, of those books, you
know, do you have a favorite? I know it's like children, do
you have one that stood out? I mean, I know that Purple
Cow seems to be like, every time I talk to people about you, like what I think of you that seems to come out of
people's mouths quite a bit. Tribes was some where I got mentioned in, which was very big for me. So, thank you. At the time I
was starting the wine thing. Any of them stand out, was
there anything that really? - Well, most authors will tell you that their favorite book is
the one that didn't sell. - That's what I say. Thank You Economy. That's
so weird you said that. - I wrote a book called
Survival is Not Enough. Charles Darwin wrote the forward. - Wow. - And India's laughing. It's true, you can look it up. Google it right now. And it came out right after 9/11 which was not a good time to say the whole world is gonna be different, and we should like that. It took me over a year. It
had 45 pages of footnotes that didn't fit in,
that I published online. It's as close as I'm ever gonna get to sort of a scholarly thing. And most people shouldn't read it, because it's not what matches the gestalt of what we're trying to do today. But I have a soft spot in my heart, because no one bought it, right? The new book What to
Do When It's Your Turn, I designed every page. I wrote every page. It made me happy to sort of
play with the medium, right? But they're all my friends, my books. I keep them on a shelf so
that I can look up say, "I remember when I was the
person who can write that book." - Interesting. - I don't think I could
write most of my books today. - And where do you sit today
in book writing in your mind? - This was a year and a half ago, there hasn't been one word since then. It's just not on the agenda. It's not something that people are ready to buy another book. Maybe from you, but not from me. Where our attention span is different. Our priorities are different. So, I'm focusing on the
school I run the Alt MBA. I'm focusing on how do
I craft each blog post as if it was my last one. How do I interact with people?
- I want to get into that. India. I apologize, Seth. India, I know you have the questions. Is there one asking him about
his social media versus, I saw that come through.
Did you pick that? - She's ready. - She's really good like that.
So, I'll leave it for that. So, we're gonna answer some questions. Because that's what we do here. - Did we turn on the cameras
yet, or are we just talking? - No, the cameras are
on. The cameras are on. DRock is doing Facebook Live. - Hi, DRock. Hi, Facebook Live. - DRock, what's going
on with Facebook Live? - They're loving it. - [Gary] I'm sure. - [Seth] 12, 14? - We're at 3.3. - [Gary] Three thousand three hundred? Very nice. - Adding the decimal to thousands
makes it sound like a much bigger number, just saying. - It's a much bigger. 3.3 people are watching. Big shout out to the third of the person. India, let's get into the first question. - [India] Demetri. - Demetri. Good Russian name. Good start. - Do I repeat the question? - No, you don't have to. No, that gets picked up. - Semantics matter a whole bunch here. What does authority even mean? And I think that currencies of anybody who wants to make change happen right now are attention and trust. And they're in a virtuous cycle. You don't get attention
unless you're trusted. You don't get trusted,
unless you get attention. There are other kinds of attention. You can light yourself
on fire in the street, but you don't earn trust doing that. So, this attention
trust cycle goes around. The question then is,
how do you get there? I don't think you get there by saying, "How do I hustle a content media play "to figure out how to
get in front of people "who never heard of me,
and somehow seduce them?" I think you do it by being generous. I think that people tend to trust folks who step up before they have to. They trust people who keep their promises, especially when it's not convenient. They trust people who tell them the truth. And if you do those things, they're probably gonna tell someone else. And then you'll get more attention and more chances to be generous. And the cycle then goes,
and goes, and goes. And guess what? It probably never ends
at a moment when you say, "Okay, it's my turn to take, take, take." We left the take, take,
take part out mostly. You don't feel like
you own Heinz anything. You don't feel like you owe TWA anything. You just are in this environment where you know you're
attention is precious, you know your trust has been abused. If someone shows up and treats
your attention with kindness and earns your trust every day, well then, one of the byproducts will be they'll want to hear what
you have to say next. - Super easy to figure out
why this guy and I get along. If you've been watching this show, because that just wrapped up
184 episodes in one statement. - 183. - I know. I'm trying to play along here. I think what is super
interesting about that answer and this question, is that's right. And I think one of the reasons that I've had personal success is because I think about things in such a long period of time that that answer spoke to me
because it's my natural state. When you think about things in a 10, or 20, or 40 year cycle, well then your behavior matches that. And, so, you're not
worried about the one week, one day, one month, even one year results. And then I also think the
market gets to the side. There's one thing that
I very much believe. - Can I just put a little asterisk? - Please. - Because you're about to
sell yourself short here. - Please. - There's a glacial strategy which says, "I'm a glacier. I'm gonna
make it all the way down the Hudson to the ocean, and it's obvious where I'm going. I'm just gonna take a long time." I would say that that
strategy you're talking about, which you have done consistently, is that at any given moment
the short term thinker thinks you're an idiot. Because you are not trading. And that's the key. Is that you are doing
things that are so generous and so trust earning, that people look at you and say, "Why aren't you doing
that other taking thing?" And it's that feeling that
the people around you think you've lost your mind. That's what makes it scarce. - I'm a little bit
weird, and you know this, because my personality
actually on stage and style, because my personality
actually on stage and style, makes people think I
am in short term game. You know, I recognize
that my vibe at times comes across as the worse
version of the things that you're referring to. And, so, it takes people a little of time to
completely figure me out. As a matter of fact, I would tell you one of the interesting things about how I live my life is the reason I so deeply feel
infection towards you is I was surprised myself how quickly you, like I judge people based on
how quickly they get me or not. And I always wonder if, I'm never sure if I do it on purpose. If the shtick is almost
weirdly on purpose, or was it always naturally, I think it's naturally there based on what happened in school long before I thought about these things. But that's right. So, I think at the end of the day, the thing that really,
really matters to me is whether Seth says it, whether I say it, whether the president says it, the bottom line is the market
gets to the side, you know? When you make a book, when
you write a blog post, when I feel like, at the end of the day
the market is the judge. And, so, when you think
about who's the taste maker, who's the authority in today's world, we clearly have mediums today. I mean, look at what's
going on here right now. - There are two cameras. - That's fine, but we're basically. I mean it's incredible we're doing live and production TV here. Think about this 20 years ago. You've been through the whole gamut. - Everyone owns their own media company. - It's crazy. - One thing we need to
amplify here though, there isn't one market. There are many markets. - Yes, agreed. - And so you can sell to a
market that wants you to be a pickup artist, hustler, whatever. But just please understand,
that's your market. Don't call me, because
I'm not your market. And my argument is that most people, especially the people you
want to be trusted by, don't like to be hustled. - 100%. - And I wish that a whole bunch of people who call themselves growth
hackers and (mumbles) would write on the wall, "Most people I care about
don't want to be hustled." Because being hustled makes you feel bad. - Agreed. - What else you got, India? - [India] From Bryce. - Bryce, it's a nice name. - Bryce. He's got a
canyon named after him. - He does. - So, what's the next big thing? My argument is this is the next big thing. That, if you are waiting
for something beyond a billion people connected
online with mobile being the driving force, with a fight for attention, and with constant froth around the edges. If you're waiting for something else, you're gonna miss out on a
big chunk of opportunity. This is our revolution. There was the industrial revolution. There was the mass media revolution. There's this. And it will keep changing it's flavor. The names of the public
companies that run things are gonna have to change. But please don't wait for the next thing. This has been the next thing since 1991. And the people who ask me at
the newspaper conference in '93 when I told them what was coming said, "Oh, well. We'll just wait for that." No, this is it. This is what we got. - I totally agree with that. And the one thing that's on the horizon that I think a lot of people
are paying attention to is VR. And I say to a lot of people, "Look. That's a ten years away." In 1998 I thought by the year 2000 everybody would come into my wine shop and know the price of everything. And, so, I think the thing I've learned, my version of that same exact answer is there's a long way away. If VR is truly contact
lenses, sitting at our home, If VR is truly contact
lenses, sitting at our home, being in places, we're talking
about 15 to 25 years away from the scale. We're just hitting the maturity. Let's not forget. 15%-17% of
all eCommerce done in America is done online. It's nothing. If you told me in 1998 that
only 15% of all things bought would be online by the year 2016, I would have sat there and said, "Shit. Do I even want to do this? That's forever from now." This stuff doesn't go as fast
as we all think it's going to. - 30 years ago today,
1986, sitting in my office at 215 1st Street in
Cambridge, Massachusetts. - As like, literally, literally today? - I'm making that part
up, but it's 30 years ago, sitting in my office in
Cambridge, Massachusetts. Do you know who walks in? I'm 26 years old. Guy named Guy Kawasaki. - Telling you Apple's the greatest? - Well, I was already a beta tester. We did a deal with him, right? The point is, if Guy had
waited for the next big thing, he wouldn't have become Guy Kawasaki. If I'd waited for the next big thing, I wouldn't have become me, and you wouldn't have become you. This idea that there's always
the froth around the edges, there are people who
are working in VR today who are gonna go off and
do something interesting, but it's not gonna be because
they're right about VR. It's gonna be because
they're right about being a trusted person worthy of our attention. That's the arc of the people you trust and the brands you trust. Not that they got the
product right the first day or the iteration right the first day. It's that they made a
commitment to show up in a certain way, in a certain universe in front of certain people. - What's crazy about that is when I think about the thought leaders in marketing, and names
that people throw out there, and authors in this space. 30 years ago he walks into your office. It's unbelievable that
when you have the chops: A. How long you can keep the
attention of the end consumer. B. How long this all plays out. Like, I just got fired up. The level of domination
that I'm gonna have in 2037 just dawned on me. And I'm really excited about 2037. - You should be except football will be against the law by then. - Don't even start with me. Let's go. - Well, she already
knows the answer, right? - Go ahead. You go. - No, that's the thing with
psychics, they already know. Why are they asking? Next. - Yeah. I mean, look. You guys know where I sit on this one. I won't meditate. I don't
need to see psychics. - Whoa. It's not okay
to put those two things in the same sentence. - Yes, it is. I'll tell you. - No, it's not. - Well, you don't get to say. - I do, because one is science,
and the other one is not. - Okay. - Science is one of the coolest things that's ever happened to mankind. - I hate science, Seth. Seth, I'm telling you
the truth about this. I mean, you know I hate disappointing you. - You don't have to like it, but you can't deny that it works. - I don't deny science. - So, it's not okay to start conflating things that are based on science-- - Versus things that are not. - Correct.
- Okay. - Thank you. - So, let me ask you a question. What do you think about
emotional intelligence? Seriously, like can I tell you something? Can I tell you something
that weirds me out. - Go ahead. - Help me here, because I trust you. Why is it that often, not always, and I understand brain
tricks and all that shit, but I get weirded out when
I think of random shit like somebody I haven't
talked to in seven years, and then the next day they call me. Or a million other things. Tell me about intuition. - That has nothing to do
with emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is
Daniel Goleman's semantic take on what we need from people. The ability to look people in the eye. The ability to not eat the marshmallow. Emotional intelligence
is an important concept that people should understand. You're talking about instinct, intuition. Okay, let's have conversation about that. - Can't they be cousins? - They're not related things, no. They're just not. - I believe you. You're probably right. I don't look this shit up. - Think about the people you know, who you've hired here, right? The ones you like the best aren't the ones who are better at typing
than someone else. They're the ones who have
the emotional intelligence to bring tension to bare
to cause change to happen in a way that benefits others. - 100% - That has nothing to do
with a friend calling you. - No. No question, no question. - Coincidence is super easy to explain. - Please. - We, as humans, are
story telling machines. We notice things, but we have
to make stories about them. You, yesterday, thought of
more than 300 different people. - Probably more than that. - And one of them called you. You paid attention to the coincidence, but you didn't say, "Holy smokes, 299 people
didn't call me today." - That's right. - The reason that coincidence works is as story manufacturing humans, we're always looking for that correlation. And that's why people buy lottery tickets. Because they think that
there's some sort of weird cosmic numerology thing going on, because we're wired to look
for weird coincidences, but there aren't actually weird
coincidences in the world. We just think there are.
- It's all science. - I didn't say that. - That's what you said. - No. There's plenty of
things that aren't science, because we make up stories
that are irrational. What I'm saying is there's
a good reason we evolved to make up stories that are irrational, because they kept us alive. Because sometimes there's a correlation between the stick breaking and the lion jumping out of the woods. And then when we listen
for sticks breaking, it might keep us alive, and
we'll have grandchildren and other people will
listen for sticks breaking. Where it breaks down is
now there are no lions, but we're still listening
for sticks breaking. We're looking for broken windows. We're paranoid about
certain things because-- - It's hippos and sharks. - Hippos and sharks, sure. - I love that. Look it up if you didn't understand that. Go ahead, India. - I think it's advisable
under several conditions. Condition number one, where you want to-- - When did you start your blog? - Really, it was '89
as an email newsletter. So, do the math. - Yeah, no. It's a long time ago. - Then I met Joi Ito and
switched it to type pad. There was some blogging before that, but I can't find it. I don't know where it is. And then, after I met Joi Ito, I've been doing it as
relentless as I could. There was a period with
five blog posts a day, and then I realized it wasn't
helping me or the reader. So, now it's been one a day for a really long time.
- For a long time. Do you know how long? - Years and years. So, if you want to develop to get to the dip to be
the best at something, you're gonna have to say
no to a lot of things. - You love no. - No is super important. - Super important. - And, so, when Twitter came along I said, "I could be pretty good at
this, because I'm early. "But I would have to use my blogging time "to be pretty good at this." So better-- - How much time do you
spend on a blog post do you think on average? I mean, I'm sure they all vary. - Well, I spend 10 hours a day thinking about the next blog post. I write a bunch, but you
don't see most of them. - What do you just like kill them? - Yeah. No. - Well, they stick around, right? You might bring them back? I assume when you're
spending 10 hours a day, in four weeks you may spend
10 hours and you're like, "Oh, shit." And recall that. - Sure. It all connects. That's why I think every
human should have a blog, even if you don't put your name on it. Every day write something that you're willing to put in the world, so that a week from now,
and a month from now, and a year from now you can
look back at it and say, "I said this. I predicted
this. I noticed this." - Did you keep a journal as a youngster? - No, not at all. - Do you like writing? I know it's a funny question. - I like talking about ideas. I like helping change happen. There was a time in the
middle of the 18 books when the thought of sitting down and going to this
practice of writing a book really engaged me. But I'd rather look someone in the eye and talk to them. - What about public speaking? We've gotten to do a
couple of events together. - I love giving talks. I hate flying there. I love being on stage. You're on, and then you're off. There are rules. You can't bring on a
chimpanzee and a marching band. - Well, you can. - You're allowed to use
slides. I have rules, right? I can use your slides, but
you can't go beyond that, can't throw things at
the audience and stuff. - I like that. - But there's too many variables. So, back to India's question. - What was the question? Oh, yes. - So Steve Pressfield in
his book The War of Art talks about the resistence. And Linchpin I talk
about The Lizard Brain. - Do you read a lot? - Yeah, I do. - You read books? - Yeah. - Like how many books
in a year will you read? - Well, I get two or
three a day in the mail, and I read them until I get the joke, and then I stop. So, that's a thousand. - Jesus. - But sometimes you don't
need to read that many. #AskGaryVee, did I mention
that's on sale in two weeks? You can pre-order it now on Amazon. That book will probably take me more than 15 minutes to get the joke, because it's just rich and layered, and a lifetime of insight. You know what I'm saying? But there are others books, if the author did a
good job in five pages, you get the point. You that the rest of it is proven, and now you can go on to the next thing. - That's cool. What's the last great
book you read, for you? What did you enjoy recently? - Fiction-wise, there's a book
called Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Hysterical, brilliant,
funny, science fiction, and it's about you. You're in it. You're not gonna like
the Deveraux character. - Is that who I am? - Yeah. - Is he handsome? - Yes. - Yeah. I love him. - But that's not the best
thing to say about him. - That's all I care.
- There are parts of him that - Who cares?
- I'm in, but you don't want to go there. Anyway, and then, there's
a really great novel about Anyway, and then, there's
a really great novel about Marcel Duchamp's work called The Bride Who Was Stripped
Bare by Her Bachelors, Even. - That's the whole title? - Yeah. That's really juicy book. - Oh, India's fired up. - There you go. But nonfiction-wise, I'm
just constantly amazed at how generous authors are, because authors know you can't make a living writing books, but they do it anyway. Anyway, we're still
answering India's question. Are we running out of time? I'm sorry. - It's not India's, it's Jonathan's. - Jonathan. Wait. So, the punchline is this-- - The punchline is when
you're fucking Seth Godin you don't have to do it because you're a beast in 20 years. - Completely the opposite. Zig used to say you can
be a meaningful specific-- - And Zak said, "If you're fucking Seth Godin,
you can get away with it." - Has anyone ever walked out on this show? - Yes. - Because I could go second. I have something important to add here. You're heckling me. - I am. I just, you know what? I'm
just happy you're here. - He was my friend. - I'm sure. I apologize, go ahead. - So, Zig used to say, "You can be a meaningful specific "or a wandering generality." - Interesting. - And the problem with most social media is you are not the customer,
you are the product. It was optimized to make you
anxious until you use it again. It was optimized to extract
from you nervous energy, not productive output. Most people who fall into it
are checking one last time, checking this, posting that, liking this. Why? To keep them from
doing important work. - Which was watching
television for a lot of people. - So now you have a chance. - Hold on. Here's where we're
gonna disagree a little bit. I mean, stick here for a second, India. Hold on. This thought that
all of a sudden Myspace, and Friendster, and Facebook,
and Twitter came along and took us away from all this mass important work. - Who said that? - You did. - No. So, let's start with Clay Shirky. Clay Shirky pointed out
that Wikipedia got built on Clay Shirky pointed out
that Wikipedia got built on a decrease in television reviewing. That that billion hours that were invested in building Wikipedia came from TV. - It could've come from reading. - No. He shows, it's great book. It came from TV. - He put a chip in everybody's head who-- - Look. - Listen. What we can't talk about this? - No. You don't have to agree with me, but you can't deny this scholar's work but you can't deny this scholar's work without examining it and saying, "Wait. I challenge his methodology." - No, no. I think that's fair. And I think you're right about that. No question do I believe an enormous amount of
internet behavior has come at the behest of television. - So, what my point is television's dying because we're
giving people more choices, because channels are
breaking down, etcetera. Mass is going away. What do we want people to do with the time they're not
spending watching Happy Days? - They're still watching a lot of TV, which is stunning to me. - [Gary] I know you know that.
- [Seth] I agree with you. But my argument is that people who are watching
you and I talk, right? Bryce, and Jonathan, and the psychic, who already knows what I'm about to say. - Yeah, they set that up. - have the ability to make
a dent in the universe. - 100% - We gave them a platform
they could use to do it. - 100% - And they think that
they're advancing their cause by using various social media networks the way that they're optimized to be used. And my argument is they're not. That I am super glad that
the musicians of the 60's that went way out on an edge, weren't seduced by just sitting there listening
to Beach Boys records all day. They decided to make Bitches Brew, they decided to make Soul Train Company, or whatever it is. They went outside the thing to say, "This is my work." And the problem I have with
the people who are saying, "Me, too. Plus, plus." They think they're doing their job, they're not doing their job. They're hiding from their job. They're job is to create a body of work that earns them trust and attention. - Seth, so real quick. You
know, that's interesting, but let's go a little bit deeper here. - Okay. I'm ready. - I like this. Don't you
believe, when you're saying, "Plus, plus. And this,
that, or the other thing." Don't you believe that that is exactly mapping the people that did just, not just everybody is going
to make great bodies of work. - Not true. - Okay. Go ahead. - You think they're born that way? - No, no. - Everyone who makes great work was born naked, unable to read, and pooping in their diapers. - [Gary] Okay.
- [Seth] Right? Somewhere along the way you make a decision. You make an investment. You go forward. And if we look, we see that it used to be that John Hammond would pick you, and you would become a
famous recording artist. - Yes, you know I believe that. - So the pickers are gone. And so now the number of people
who are picking themselves keeps going up. All I'm saying, my only
point in this case is this if you find that at the end
of the day you could say, "I did a really good job, "and my social media universe
is clean and taken care of," and that's all you have to point to today, I don't think that's a good day. - And what I'm saying is Sally Pants McGee, who has
that to point to in 1974 has that same thing to point to. - She can do better. - Oh, she has a chance to do better. So, what you're saying is that everybody could go to
Yankee Stadium today, hit the bat on table, and take a swing? Which is different, no. Hear me out. Yes, yes, yes. - Athletic endeavors are different. - Athletic endeavors are different than intellectual endeavors? - For sure. - Hold on. So, what you're saying is everybody has the same capacity to learn? - No, what I'm saying is what we define as athletic endeavors is one axis. But I could say, for example, if you're a caregiver for a senior citizen who's struggling with Alzheimer's you are capable of looking
that person in the eye with empathy and affection in a way that changes them forever. - Tell me how you develop empathy. Tell me. - Well, now you're changing the topic. We can have that conversation.
- No, I'm not. No, no. Because you just said, "I can teach Andy how to be a caregiver." Andy can definitely be taught.
- No, no, no, no. - Hold on let me finish. - Andy's a lost cause. - Andy, Andy, Andy. Andy, you can teach to look in the eye. Check. Agreed? - I can teach Andy to do, I can't ever teach him to hit
a home run in Yankee Stadium. I can teach him to do something with his voice, his heart, his soul. - Hold on. You can't teach him to hit a
home run in Yankee Stadium, but you can teach him
to be the best version of a baseball player that he can be? - But it has no economic utility. - Well, that's a whole
different conversation. - Well, that's the conversation
I'm trying to have with you, but you keep interrupting. - No, no. Not true. Not true. Because what's most interesting to me is there's not economic situation
that Sally Pants McGee could be focusing her
time on something else besides liking buttons on Facebook. - Of course there is. - Here me out.
- That's where we disagree. - Okay, well. Hold on. Hold on. Do you agree with me
that Sally Pants McGee would probably likely, in 1984, to be sitting and watching.
- Of course. - Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying nothing's changed. The places that people are deploying their energy have changed. - My point is that liking
something in Instagram or Facebook is a way to hide from
the productive things she could be exposing herself, because the productive thing is scary. - You think she's gotten to a place where that makes her feel better, and that we've tricked people, and people have tricked themselves to be a part of something versus when they sat on the couch. - No. When they sat on the couch the entire culture was in on it, and it's similar. What I'm saying is we didn't build the internet so that Youtube could show cat videos. We built the internet. - But aren't cat videos
escapism for somebody just like reading a good
book is escapism for you? Seriously, I'm asking. - I know people around the world who have something they
really need to escape from. The people who are
watching this much less. - Fine. I would argue and agree with you that people have much
bigger headaches than, but the reality is that
somebody who's watching this has their microversion of what they think they're escaping from. I sit here everyday and yell and say, "Look. If you're a white male
in America, Jesus Christ. "You wanna talk about
winning the lottery? You won." So, I'm with you on that. What I'm fascinated by-- - If it's entertaining,
there's nothing wrong with hit. - People think cats falling
out of a tree are funny. - Just acknowledge you're
entertaining yourself, you're not doing your job. - That's fine.
- That's the only thing I'm trying to say.
- But who gets to define what the job is? - But the question to India was, when I'm doing my, from India was, when I'm doing my job, why
aren't I using the other forms of social media. The answer is-- - Is that you defined what
your job was for yourself. - What Neil Gaiman has said is the way he deals with writers block, if he hasn't written a book and needs to, is he makes himself super bored. He eliminates all inputs until he's so bored that the
only way to entertain himself is to write. - So, are you saying that
one of the big KPIs for you of just staying to the blog was not getting all that stimulus and allowing you to create more. - Forcing me to say either, "I did nothing today," or "I
made something worthwhile." That there are days when I
will answer nothing but email, and I feel horrible at the end of the day, because I don't believe that's
a productive use of my time. - Let me tell you what
the most interesting part of this last four or
five minutes was for me. Seth's self awareness for himself. And I think that to me is
the most interesting part of what just happened. Like, to me that speaks to
really understanding yourself and positioning yourself in
the best position to succeed based on what you think is important. - And all the successful
contributors/artists I know are similar. - So, for me, I need chaos. Like I just walked here, apparently. I just walked into my
office, they'll all laugh. It was so quiet, I started
yelling at everybody. That I can't get into my place without all the inputs and the chaos. - Right. So, that awareness is key. - It is. - But if we look at most of the people who are showing up in my box and your box, they're saying. "What
do I do know what I do?" They're copying patterns in social media without being aware of the fact. - Not the social media though. - Well, that's the question. Without being aware that those patterns are sabotaging their (mumbles). - No, the question was for you. When is it right? - When is it right for them? And the answer is, what I say is first try nothing. See what happens. If you are forced to level up, not by fitting it, but to level up by standing out, by saying something
important, generous, unique. - You know what's funny? I'm just sitting here, and I'm thinking it's one of the funniest things
about how I go about things is I don't want to read
anybody else's things. I don't consume anything else, because it puts me in that-- - Except my book. - But really, not even. Like, I'm crazy that way. I don't want to consume anything, because I just like observing people in whatever format, the real world or the digital world, to be able to just do my thing, because that's what makes
me comfortable in analyzing. It's interesting. It's interesting. - So the way we built the Alt
MBA, which is a school I run, is it's 28 days, and there's
an enormous amount to do with your name on it in public and commenting substantially
with your name on it on other people's work. Cycle repeat, cycle repeat. 13-14 assignments in fours weeks. - Do some people struggle
with that system? - Everyone does. That's what it's for, right? If I send you to Ranger
School, you're gonna struggle. If I sent you to Tight Rope Circus School, you're gonna struggle. Learning is hard. That's why the drop out rate
on online courses is 98%. - Is that true? - Yes. And the reason is because as soon as it gets hard, and it has to if you're
gonna learn somethng, you quit. - Well, that's why people are
mad at watching my content, because I talk about hard work, and they don't want to hear that. They wanna see what the secret is. - Exactly. - It's just like you
and Mike, Muscle Mike. You need someone to be like, "You have to do this." - I needed, you know what's
funny about that, India? - You're looking very fit. - Thank you, brother. Because that's what India's referring to, I need to be accountable to somebody. I figured out my trigger in that game. I need to be accountable to somebody else, besides myself. - Exactly. - India, last one. (blows raspberry)
- Most things. - I think that that's now self-evident, but mostly it's he is a
superstitious troglodyte who wants to deny that science exists. - Not true at all. - And I had Charles Darwin write the forward for one of my books. - I believe in science tremendously. - It believes in you, too. - More than I believe in it. - The thing is gravity doesn't care whether you agree in it. It's not just a good idea, it's the law. - It's just like, science
is just like the market. It is what it is. I mean, I'm super fine with science. I don't understand it. I don't know what it is, but I'm super cool with it. Listen, Seth. I'm super pumped you're on the show, man. - It's a pleasure. How can
people find you online? - They know how to find me. What I want to do is, let's link up make sure everybody
starts reading Seth's blog on a daily basis. It is massively, very
much knowing my audience, for the few of you that don't do it, it will be a tremendous
addition to your world. - Please don't send me email. Send him email, do not send me email. - Right. Because I just like
people more than Seth does. - It's true. - It's just true. That's what we disagree on. I like human beings, Seth doesn't. Seth, you get to ask
the question of the day. Any question. There'll
be a lot of answers. We'll get some consumer insights from it, which I love. - Who would miss you if you were gone? - He's a deep soul. Seth, thanks for being on the show. Love you, pal.
- Thank you, team. You guys are awesome. All of you. - You keep asking questions. We'll keep debating them.
