- On this episode, Simon Sinek stops by! That was kinda cool, actually. (Gary and Simon laugh) (intense hip-hop music) ♪ Ey ♪ ♪ Ey ♪ ♪ Ey ♪ ♪ GaryVee ♪ ♪ You ask questions ♪ ♪ And I answer them ♪ ♪ This is "The #AskGaryVee Show" ♪ Hey, everybody, this is Gary Vaynerchuk, and this is episode 226
of "The #AskGaryVee Show." I'm excited. I have a guest. I actually have a pretty serious focus in the fourth quarter here
of not doing too many guests, getting back to kinda the classic version. Even India, Tyler, let's go to her, even India is here, so we're
going very classic on the show, but I couldn't resist. Simon and I got some drinks
together, catching up. - We did.
- And I thought it would be fun to have you on the show. So, many of the people that watch this are huge fans of yours. - Thank you. - Many, as these worlds work, many will be discovering you for the
first time, which excites me. I'm excited to get that
email nine months from now saying, "Thank you so much
for introducing me to Simon," so there's a lot of selfish
wants and needs here (Simon laughs)
in this episode. But Simon's a friend and
somebody who I really enjoy spending time with, even
though we're both so busy that it happens infrequently. But to the percentage of the audience that doesn't know who you are, why don't you give 'em
a quick little spiel-- - Quick little spiel?
- And then we'll answer some questions, my friend.
- Sure. My name is Simon Sinek,
and I have a clear vision of what I wanna build in this world. I imagine a world in
which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired to go to work, feel
safe when they're there, and return home fulfilled
at the end of the day, and everything I do, whether it's writing, speaking, teaching, whatever it is, is devoted to helping to build that world. - And have you always
had that for yourself? - Past decade. - And before then? - I would say my career before then was-- - What did you do before then? - I had a marketing consultancy. - Got it, yeah.
- So, I just sort of, I mean, I enjoyed myself, I
had a passion for what I did, but I sort of, I meandered. - Yeah. - I would say that, you know. I think my goals and my
visions were very much about me and about the business. I wanna build this kind of business, I wanna make this kind of money. - Yep. - And that hasn't been
for the past decade. - And so, me knowing a little bit more and adding a little more
color for the group, you speak, you've written books. You had a breakout speech
at the highest of levels, you wanna talk about that for a second? 'Cause I think that matters.
- Yeah, so, a long time ago, I did a, 2009, as long ago as that is. - There are some older
people that watch this. - Right.
- 2009, that would've been, so fuckin' (laughs) long ago, Simon! - Well, I think in this
social media world, it was a long time ago.
- (laughs) Guys, a long, long time ago, seven years!
- A long time ago, in 2009, (Gary laughs)
I gave a TEDx talk in Puget Sound, Seattle,
and it gained some popularity on YouTube,
and the folks at TED.com, at TED, decided to put
it on TED.com, and it-- - It went crazy.
- It went crazy, and-- - When did it go crazy? When did that, you did it in '09, but when did it kinda--
- I did it at the end of '09, and they put it on TED.com in May of 2010. - Yeah, it just seems
like a lot of people, how many views did that get? - The last time I checked, it
was about 27 or 28 million. - Yeah, monster. Andy, you're slacking over there, I don't have any 28 millions. (laughs) And so, and so-- - And look, I won the Internet lottery. I mean, I got lucky.
- Well, it was-- - I got lucky. - And for, one more time, for the people that are learning about
you, real quick, on, what was the general thesis of that? - So, I shared, it was a
talk on the theory that I-- - Yeah.
- Continue to espouse that I based on an idea
called the golden circle. Basically, every single
organization on the planet, every single one of us knows what we do, the things we sell, the services we offer, some of us know how we
do it, it's the things that we think make us
stand out or differentiate us from the world outside,
but very, very few of us can clearly articulate
why we do what we do. And if you look at the greatest leaders, everybody from Martin
Luther King to Steve Jobs, those with the capacity to inspire action in those around them,
every single one of them, regardless of their
industry, thinks, acts, and communicates starting with why. - Yep.
- Most of us talk about what we do, and then we try and tell people how we're better. But these guys talk about their vision, they talk about their cause, they talk about where they're going, and what they do simply serves as the tangible proof
of what they believe. And it profoundly changed my life, it continues to be the
way in which I organize information, make decisions,
set strategy, all of it. - It's the North Star. - It is the North Star. And I found a language that made it really easy to understand, and actually, the cool thing is it's actually grounded in the biology of decision making. So it's not like some
highfalutin management theory-- - Right.
- It's actually grounded in how the brain evolved
and makes decisions. - And what about your book world? You've written now, what, three? - Third book-- - Yep.
- Yeah, came out today. - This is the day? - This is the day.
- Is that what's in there? - No. - What the hell? I was super pumped, I'm
like, "He's got a box." - We sent you some. - I know, but I lost it. - You lost it? - Yeah.
- So you didn't even read it. - I'm not gonna read it! I've never read a, I've read, like, four books in my life, like
Joe Namath life story-- - You do realize it only
has 200 words in it? - That sounds like a lot. (Simon laughs)
It's a lot of pictures this time, right?
- It is a lot of pictures. - So, what are the
three books, real quick? And we'll link those up--
- Okay, so the first-- - And India, I think it's time for you to reassess and re-enter the ecosystem. - You gonna come and talk?
- I feel like Dunk and Sid and all these characters,
nobody can play up to the level of your quality, and so, I think we're ready to raise the bar. - [India] You're ready? - We're ready.
- Yes, but before we do that, the three books?
- Okay, the first book, the first book is "Start With Why"-- - Yes.
(bell dings) - Which is a deeper look
into what I talked about on the TED talk.
- Yes. - The second book is "Leaders Eat Last"-- - Yes.
(bell dings) - Which is all about where
trust and cooperation come from, and how you build trust and cooperation.
You ever consider calling it "Leaders Don't Eat at All"? 'Cause (laughs) that's how I--
- That sometimes happens, that sometimes happens.
- Rolled for a long time. - Yeah, that's very true.
- All right, and this new one that comes out today?
- And the new one that comes out to get today is
called "Together Is Better"-- (bell dings)
- Okay. "A Little Book of Inspiration,"
yeah, that's what it is, and it's basically a beautiful
little illustrated book with quotes and aphorisms,
but it's a metaphor. I tell a story of three little kids who are dissatisfied with their playground because of a bully, in
this case, the metaphor being a bad boss, and
people imagine having a different job or going somewhere else, or starting their own business, or whatever it is.
- Yep. - And the question is, who
has the courage to do that? - Yeah. - And so, basically, it's a
story of three little kids who find the courage
to follow their dreams because they learn to help each other. - Love it.
- Yeah, that's what it's about. So, all across America and the world, we hope to inspire people leaving organizations three at a time. - Five at a time.
- 10. - Yeah, I'm good with that.
- Okay. (Simon laughs)
India, let's do it! - Here's the first one from-- - Oh, a lot of, these
are all videos, right? - They're all videos, yeah.
- Yeah, it's a video. - Real questions, good, I like this. - Hi, GaryVee! - Hi, GaryVee and Simon,
I hope all is well. Question that I have for y'all is, can somebody's personal why on why they work for a business vary from the business's why, or is that just never good? Thanks a lot! Keep climbing! - So if it's your business,
the business's why and your why are exactly the same thing. - Yeah, but he's asking if he works for an organization--
- He works for a separate company--
- He knows the organization's why, I mean, a lot of people-- - He knows the organization's why. - A lot of them know Vayner's why, but they may have separate whys within it. Can they coexist?
- Sure. - Can an employee's why and an org's why coexist--
- Sure. - And everybody wins? - Sure, the simple answer
is, yes, if they go together. Everybody has their own unique why, and the organization
has its own unique why. - Yes.
- And if they are compatible-- - You mean, go together in
a peanut butter and jelly kind of metaphor?
- Yeah, if they're compatible, then you will look to the people who have joined the company and say, "Ah, you're a good fit, you belong here," and they will see
themselves as a good fit, and each one is mutually beneficial. In other words, it's
like any relationship. You and your wife have different whys, but they're compatible. You see her as--
- A hundred percent. - Helping you grow, and she sees you as helping her grow, et cetera.
- A hundred percent. - It's the exact same thing. - Which is why-- - And sometimes it isn't
compatible, just by-- - Which is why divorce
rates are very high. - Well, I don't know, it's
sometimes incompatible. That's a decision-making problem. - Okay. - But sometimes--
- But it's also an evolution problem, right? Like, if you think about
it, one's whys can be really aligned with the
organization's today, and five years from now, they may not. - No, absolutely not, not if both-- - One more time, you're saying no to that? - No to that. - So you're saying that there is a frozen--
- Here, let me tell you why. - No, no, hold on, before you do, I wanna give you more framework-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Because I'm fascinated by your decision to say that.
- Okay. - You're saying that
things are frozen, frozen! And that one's context of how the world, for example, that it's so
frozen, both North Stars, that one who's an employee,
who's rolling quite along and has a why, but then
his child dies from cancer along the way, isn't
reframed into the context of where maybe it's not aligned anymore. - No, the word, I wouldn't use frozen. - Okay.
- You're saying that there can be no growth when
you use the word frozen. - Okay.
- Your why is fully formed by the time you're in
your, probably, late teens, and the rest of your life
is simply an opportunity to live in balance with your why or not, so, the decisions you make. And so, whether somebody's living, that's why I said before,
which is as long as both organization and person
are working hard to remain consistent with their
cause, then it works fine. Now, the example you give,
of someone's child dying, you know, tragedy doesn't
form or change your why. Tragedy usually gives us an
opportunity to live our why, 'cause it makes everything
else in the world seem stupid, and it forces us to say there is something bigger and more important here. Very often, tragedy (hands
slap) pushes us into why, not the other way around,
not pushes us away from it. - I totally agree with you. I think the most extreme
things that happen in people's lives actually
just accentuates the reality of what's going on.
- It exaggerates who you really are.
- Hundred percent. - The test of someone is not
when everything is going great, it's when everything goes wrong. That's where your true colors show. - Or, similar to that, but
a slightly different version for everybody, I'm
fascinated by people's wealth and fame really not changing them at all, just finally exposing
who they actually are. - Yeah, yeah.
- And that's not a tragedy. - And that's a hard thing.
- It's usually, in theory, a good thing.
- That's a hard thing. - But it's a real thing. - Absolutely.
- All right. - So, yeah, it's fine
if they're different, as long as they're compatible. And this is why you wanna know your why, and this is why you wanna
find out the company's why, 'cause otherwise, you're
gonna make decisions based on money and benefits, and then there's nothing.
- A hundred percent. - It's like making a
decision about who to marry based on their bank account.
- I don't wanna sidetrack the show, but it's
funny, I'm sitting here, it's why I'm so confident
in what I'm building at VaynerMedia, because
the platform is being built to be in their benefit to reverse-engineer what they want based on their DNA, whether that is enormous ambition, which is, then, this is a
platform for them to create that, or within a very close ecosystem to me, or quite passive and very nice work-life. I have actual zero emotion,
one way or the other, of what they actually want. I just wanna build a
framework and a platform that gives them those options, and I think that's the great mistake that most businesses make. - And isn't that what you
preach in your work as well? - A hundred percent! - And so it's-- - Yeah, I have no interest in-- - So the why is clear
internally and externally? - Hundred percent. - I love that.
- Which is, because to me, otherwise, everything crumbles in its hypocrisy if you don't do that. - Amen. - [India] From Matt. - Matthew. - Hey, Gary, Matt LaMarsh
here in Atlanta, Georgia. Hope you're doin' well. I had a quick question
about self-awareness. Do you think it's more
about maturity and wisdom, or is it something that
you're just built with? Thanks so much for taking the time. Have a great day! - That's a good question. - So I've been talking a
lot about self-awareness. - Yeah.
- I'd love for you to take the floor first. Maybe you haven't had as much
time to ponder this world. What's your take on self-awareness? Do you feel like you have it? Do you feel like it grew? For example, I believe
it is the ultimate power. Once you have that, boy,
can you start navigating. I'm struggling 'cause so many people have (smacks hand) really
caught attention to this and they're asking me
to help them figure out how to gain more of it, and I'm like, Jesus, you know what I mean? There are certain places
where your skill set stops. Mine stops at, "How am
I gonna," I don't know. Boy, do I know the people that I know that have it are winning,
and not just financially or exposure, they're just in a happy place because of that self-awareness. What is your thought on self-awareness? - Yeah, I think it's a
skill like any other. - So you do think it's something that can be its own--
- Sure, I mean, some people might have more natural capacity for it, however they were raised, like
any other skill, you know? - In the world? - Some people are good at
basketball, and some people have to work very hard to be
good at basketball, but it's-- - Do you think one caps out, though? In the basketball analogy,
Dunk is a nice-looking athlete, but he's never going to be an NBA player. He has a ceiling of his basketball skills. Do you think people have a ceiling to their self-awareness?
- I don't know if people have a ceiling, but I think
self-awareness is a skill, a practicable, learnable skill, and I think that one
of the big things about self-awareness is we don't really know how we're being perceived. We think we know how
we're being perceived, and sometimes we act in a
way, when we act all pompous 'cause we wanna appear stronger, really, we appear weak, and-- - That's right. - We're not always aware-- - Which is a common one, by the way. - Which is, yeah, right, and so, I think the big thing about
learning to be self-aware is being open to the feedback
from people who love you and care about you who
are willing to say to you, "When you said that, you looked
and sounded like an ass." - Yeah, it's funny. - And to be open to that kind of harsh, but from a good place, critique
is the only way to learn how you come across.
- It's funny you said that. I think the closest I've
ever gotten to answering this is that, and then, comma,
actually putting that inner circle in a safe place to tell you the truth. - Exactly right.
- Because those same people are scared, you know, they love you. - And if you're defensive
the whole time, then-- - Game over. - Then you are not
learning self-awareness. - I would tell you that
my reading of comments over the last decade on social, and taking each with a grain of salt. Your biggest fans, you can
only let your ego go so far, and you're aware that some people troll for the sake of getting
reactions from the community, and things of that nature. But the net, the millions
in a net composite score, has definitely been, I would always say that listening has done a lot more for me, even though I love to
talk and always talk, that consumption pattern has
been a very big deal for me. - So, there's a wonderful story about listening.
- Please, okay. - Because the problem when people say, "You need to be a better listener," is we are human beings,
and we need to communicate. And communication is two
ways, listening and speaking. So, but everybody's like, "You
gotta be a better listener." But here's the best
understanding I have of that. So, Nelson Mandela is universally regarded as a great leader, which is important, because different people are viewed differently in different nations. But Nelson Mandela, universally regarded as a great leader, right? He was actually the son of a tribal chief, and he was asked in an interview once, "How did you learn to be a great leader?" And he tells the story of how he would go to tribal meetings with his father, and he remembers two things. They always sat in a
circle, and his father was always the last to speak. - Hm.
- And in terms of leadership and listening, I think the idea of "be a better listener" is
actually half the advice. I think the advice is, practice
being the last to speak. You see this all the time in meetings, where everybody will sit around a room, the senior guy will be like,
"All right, here's the problem, "here's what I think we should do, "but I'm really interested
in what your thoughts are." - Yes.
- "Let's go around the room." It's too late! You've influenced the room.
- You've created the footprint.
- And people bend and mold, as opposed to saying, "Here's the problem, "I'm interested in what you have to say," without saying anything. And having this, and this takes practice, not even giving a hint
whether you agree or disagree. If anything, you ask
questions to learn more. You get the benefit of
hearing everybody's opinion, everybody gets to feel heard, and then you get to render your opinion.
- So I would tell you, and this is for people that
are running businesses, that is a micro example of the way, and I think makes a ton of sense. I would tell you, "Andy,
you obviously direct "report to me, you run our team. "I think people would be stunned "by how little we talk at all." Like, the level of, micro, right? Like, the level of
micromanagement I put on, my version of that is actually
letting people do their thing and watching it from, speaking last. I guess my punchline is, by
the time I get into the meeting where we're like, "Here's the problem," the amount of listening
that has been done, because I've created such a white canvas for the leaders to do their
thing, and I can watch it and contextualize what they're
doing, is the macro version, because once you're in that meeting room, that's basically the final pitch of what's been going on over that period of time. - Okay. - Yeah, it's interesting,
it's interesting. I believe in that quite a bit. Okay, good. I mean, I think I, on the other hand, do think that all skills have a max-out. At some level, your hard-wiring limits-- - So you can't continue to
grow till the day you die? - No, I think that's the
black-and-white version of that. I think that you can continue
to make incremental steps, but I think that there are people-- - Oh, so there's a diminishing
returns kinda thing. Yeah, that's interesting.
- Absolutely, I believe that. Because I believe some
people are just delirious in this chase that they're gonna be at this upside of any skill-- - Yeah, I think it's interesting.
- And people lose practicality at some level. - And the question is, where is everybody? If here is the max-out or the diminishing returns--
- Right. - The question is, is-- - Do you stop here? - Does anybody even get here? I mean, there's-- - And which is why I'm
always very careful-- - That's interesting. - To not play too much to the negative, because I don't want
somebody to stop here, but at the same token,
in a world where there's a lot of voices and
everybody can do everything, we need to level some level of practicality.
- Oh, that's good, I like that. Yeah, that's interesting.
- Oh, thank you. - [India] From Bill. - Bill! - Hey, Gary and Simon. My name is Bill Clanton,
from billclantonbooks.com. I'm an adult coloring book illustrator. I live here at the Jersey Shore. I make coloring books for grown-ups. Up till now, I've been a one-man band as far as controlling my operation and doing everything
myself, but I'm looking to expand and start building a team. Do you have any suggestions as I grow to help new team members buy into my why, or my mission as to why I'm doing this? Is there any best practices or ideas, suggestions, to help them buy into what I'm trying to accomplish here? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks a lot, and keep up the good work. Trying to accomplish here-- - Yeah. - [Bill On Video] Any
suggestions would be great. (Gary laughs)
- Sure. - Wants suggestions.
- Well, one is having clarity of why, which is something that you have to have the ability to talk about what you believe, what you're trying to build
beyond the business itself. So he's into adult coloring books. What specifically--
- By the way, which puts him in a good spot to begin with, right? I mean, if you just think
about that in thesis-- - Yeah.
- There's a lot of smiling that comes along with that. There's a lot of positive vibes. - If that's why he went into it. It could have been for
some Zen calm thing, or some stress relief thing.
- Or some weird thing. Maybe he's a really bad guy,
and he's mad at children. I don't think so. - So, but even beyond the coloring books, what is it that he imagines? The ability to talk about his vision, and if he can't talk about
his why in hard terms, can he tell stories of his own experiences or people he admires, that
if somebody hears enough of those stories, they can
kinda get a sense of who he is? What you'll find is
that the better you are at communicating your why,
people will want to work for you, regardless of the opportunity
that you afford them. They wanna be a part of it. - Yeah. - We do a little thing,
which we've been doing for years and years and
years, called a give-and-take. Whenever there's any kind of relationship, whether it's an outside partnership or even somebody who joins our team, we do something called a give-and-take, where we want somebody to
be selfish and selfless within the relationship. So, not give-and-get, but give-and-take. So we'll ask them, "What
is it you have to give "to us, that you have that
you think that we need?" And they'll tell us. And then we'll say, "Great, what is it "that you selfishly want from us?" And we want them to tell us
what they can get from us and no one else.
- I believe in that so much. - And when those things match, you have a balanced relationship. Because, so, for example,
I've had it with people who, they'll tell me
what they have to offer, and that's awesome,
'cause that's what I want, and then they'll say what they wanna take, and they go, "Oh, I wanna
work with smart people." I'm like, "There are
plenty of smart people. "What is it you wanna take from me?" They're like, "Oh, I wanna
help build something." "Wonderful, do that anywhere. "What do you wanna take selfishly from me "that you can get nowhere else?" And if they can't answer the question, I won't engage in a relationship, and the reason is because in time, the relationship is unbalanced, they're gonna be giving,
but they're not taking, and I don't even know how
to give them what they want, then they'll complain they're
not making enough money or-- - Yep, yep.
- Because it's not balanced. - That's right, and I think-- - So that's a big part of it. - And I think the other thing,
you know, as being out there, a lot of people play the reverse of that. - Yeah. - They wanna give you something
that is very low in value, and they want something insane in return. "Hey, GaryVee, I tweeted about your book. "Now, I want a job with you, "I want you to babysit my
dog four times a week." Like, it's insane like that. - That's right, so it's about balance. - And to me, I've
thought a lot about that, I think a lot about it. I call it 51-49. I fully believe in that.
- Yeah. - And then, what I always think about is how incredibly important it is to me to slightly give a little bit more. Not because I'm the greatest human ever. I actually just think
it's a leverage point. I like the feeling, and I'm not sold that, I don't know if that makes
me a good guy or a bad guy. It's just my natural state
to slightly overdeliver as close to the middle as
possible, and I like that. - So, one of the richest guys in China, he might even be the, well, since the Alibaba guy, not so much. But one of the richest guys in China, he's a real estate
developer, and he always gives the majority share
to all his partners. He always does 51-49,
or even more imbalance. And somebody, again, sat
down with him in an interview and said, "Why do you
never do 50-50 deals? "Why do you give away the majority "stake in all of your partnerships?" And he smiles and says, "'Cause everybody "wants to do business with me." - That's right. - I mean, it's that easy. - Makes tons of sense.
- Yeah. - I think, to answer the question
in a little bit of detail, I think you have the
benefit of being out there, I think all of us have the
benefit of being out there today, and I think all of us,
whether your audience, and we've been at audience sizes of just starting to where we are today, whether your audience is
very large or quite small, there are always a small group of people that are attracted to your message. And I think what I would
do in this scenario is, if you're looking to
hire that first person, I would look very hard
at the people that are engaging with your content
on social and start there. I'm a very big believer on that, because I think it's quite practical. They've already been self-selected, they're using their free time
to comment on your stuff, consume your stuff, buy
those coloring books, and so, I think that's
a very important place. I've had enormous amounts
of success with Wine Library and both VaynerMedia
in the exact same way. - And they have a passion
for you and your work before you even met them.
- That's right, and by the way, and by the way, by the way, sometimes you lose, because they had a vision of
what they were attracted to, and then the reality is,
it's work, or this and that. But I do like that starting
point from a practical nature. - [India] From JJ. - JJ! - Hey, Gary! It is JJ at 97.9 The Box in Houston. Had a blast having you on my show earlier this year to talk about your new book, "#AskGaryVee." I read the book, it is amazing. I got a lot of good stuff from it. I've been sharing it
with some of my interns and my friends and co-workers,
so thank you so much. Today, I have a question for you. I'm releasing a book
next month, it's called "Without Bruises: A Journey
to Hope, Help, and Healing." It's telling my personal story of being in a relationship
with a sociopath and going through mental
and emotional abuse. Well, I am trying to figure out, do I stick with JJ, who
is the radio personality, to market this book, or
do I need to stay away? Because I feel like I can
reach a bigger audience, but I'm not sure if that
audience is really ready for the girl with the
shaved hair, tattoos, who's at the hip-hop station. So maybe you can give
me some advice on that. Thanks Gary, love ya! - I'll take this one first, and
then you can jump in, Simon. JJ, look, the bottom line is, it's not 1984 anymore, it's 2016. You're not gonna hide from who you are. People are gonna figure out you have a shaved head and tattoos.
- Yeah. - You can can go under a
pseudonym, you can go in disguises, they're going to figure out who you are, so I think everybody
wins when they go all in. Listen, first 60 episodes
of "Wine Library TV," 2006, 10 years ago, I
was tempered a little bit because I was scared that
the people on Wall Street and these rich people that were buying hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of wine from me would realize I loved wrestling and football, and I cursed, and I was Jerseyed out. The truth is, the second I realized, "Wait a minute, if people
like this show with 80% of me, "what's really gonna happen?" The second I went all-in on me, it became a totally different outcome, and really, I've never looked back, both in the wine industry
and who I am today. There are plenty of people in
the marketing and book world that don't love me. I think the closer one is to me--
- Who? No.
- I don't know, people. - No.
- There's a LinkedIn post right now where I saw somebody write, "Why GaryVee is Really
Great at Social Media," and the first comment, with
four likes from other people, is "I wanna do nothing like GaryVee," and I'm like, "Well, there's five people." (Simon laughs)
I mean, you know, and I get it, and I get it, but I think what you have
to take pride in, JJ, and everybody, is, if you can live a life where the people that know you the best like you the most, you win. I love that my assistants,
when we were talking about India's one week as my, like, the people that know
more about my truth win. As we've gotten to know each other, we've liked each other more, not less--
- That's true. - And that's the game.. - That's true, I mean, what's the definition of authenticity, right? Everybody's like trying to be authentic, and nobody talks about
what authenticity is. Authenticity is saying and doing the things you actually believe. And so, to create divisions, one of them is inherently inauthentic, so in one of them, you're either being dishonest or you're faking it, so-- - Or you're hedging, right? - Or you're hedging, right.
- Hedging! Hedging is what pisses me off. - So, I mean, you are who you are, and you wanna bring that personality, and at the end of the day, the more authentic you
are in all of your work, the more the people who
love you for who you are will take your work and
will help spread it for you. Those are champions. But it's very hard to even find champions if you're always hedging and trying to be what somebody else wants you to be. - JJ, I think you've got a
misread on America, I really do. - People like you for you-- - A hundred percent.
- And they like you for your message. - And especially if
you're you, for example-- - Neither of us, neither of us
fits the role that we expect. I mean, I show up to these
meetings in jeans and things, and Gary, you know, he curses and he (Gary laughs)
shows these things, but people like us for who we are. And the people who don't
like us for who we are don't invite us, and that's totally fine. - I also think that
you've got to understand the American psyche, right? They're not gonna care
as much about tattoos and shaved heads and
things of that nature. America forgives everything, except if you're trying to deceive them. Like, you can literally do
anything in this country, probably outside of murder,
and get away with it, as long as you don't try to
pull one over on us, right? Presidents have proved that, the most famous people have proved that. We will forgive all day, but
if you try to make us a sucker because you're trying to put
one over on us, we hate that! That's it. Is that it?
- Yeah, be yourself. - [India] Just one more. - One more? Let's do it.
- Be yourself, yeah. (India speaks faintly)
- And it's hard to be yourself. - It takes practice, it's like the self-awareness thing, right? - Uh-huh, let's do it. - [India] From Africa, hold on. - Oh, in Africa, I love it. - Hi, Gary, my name is Gbenjo Abimbola from Nigeria, West Africa. It's 2:16 AM in the morning
here, and I'm grinding. I hope this gets in. My question is short and
simple to you and Simon. When do you know you have the chops as a young person to start talking, when you have the results to back it but you're not an all-time great yet? Do you start talking, or do you document? Thank you. - I think you start talking. The whole thing's a process. You start talking immediately. I mean, it takes a long time to become an overnight success, right? And I think for the both of us, and everybody we know that we admire and who has achieved anything, they've been at this a long time-- - Work!
- And they've been talking at it. And by the way, they weren't
great at the beginning. - Speak for yourself.
- Go watch early interviews of Steve Jobs, right? Early interviews of
Steve Jobs are fantastic. He's terrible! And he actually, in one of them, says, "I need to go throw up," because he's so nervous
about talking on camera. He's terrible! And the point is, is he practices and he practices and he practices, and he gets better, but
he does it out loud. And I think the idea of hiding until it's perfect, it's a fool's game. I think you put yourself
out there, you start, you practice, you practice out loud, then you get feedback and you can grow. - You counterpunch. You adjust.
- Yeah, you put it out there. - I would say the one thing that you may be referring to that
I talk about a lot is, it's tough to come out
the gate at 22 and say, "This is the definitive
thing, here's my advice." I think talking to the
world about your truth-- - About what you believe. - Correct, is the game.
- Yes, is the game. - I think what we're
seeing on the Internet right now, like, "I'm a"-- - 22-year-old guru, yeah.
- "I'm a Business coach, "and I'm gonna teach you,
and the only business I have "is you're gonna pay me
$20K, and I'm gonna teach you "how to charge other
people down the ladder "$20K to give you guys,"
that's the bad stuff. So, your point of view on the world and what you believe
and where you come from, that's gold, your process. That's why I talk a lot about documenting instead of creating. It's just your truth. But I agree with you. I mean, there's no substitute for doing. The amount of people that
wait for the perfect thing, and then never do anything.
- You know, the most beautiful thing when you're young and
you think you have something to contribute is to admit that you don't know everything, admit
that you're learning. - Yes.
- If you say, "I'm a 22-year-old expert, and I can help "you do X, Y, and Z," you
actually, it's not true. I mean, there's so much more to learn, and everybody knows that. - Everybody who is the kind
of people that you want. - Everybody, yes.
- The people that are attracted to that are gonna
do very little for you besides some short-term dollars. - Agreed, and if you say,
"Look, I'm in this business, "I'm fascinated by it, I'm
growing fast, I'm learning fast, "I'm still a student of this stuff, but I have this service to offer," that humility is unbelievably attractive, and people want to be a part of that, because they know you're
showing up to learn, not to-- - Simon, I don't know if you're
paying attention to this, but in reverse, what's happening is people are renting expensive things, showing a bullshit lifestyle on Instagram, asking their dad to
take $25,000 out in cash from the bank, putting it on a bed, taking a picture, and then
putting it back in the, just complete and utter
fraud, and it pisses me off. - That's insane. - Yeah, and by the way, it's
just a non-winning game. - And you only attract
people who want that-- - The worst.
- And that's not even who you are.
- The worst, the worst. Anyway, Simon. (claps)
- Probably lying, isn't it? - Question of the Day, every guest gets to ask the Question of the Day. You get to ask them a question, you'll get hundreds of data points back in return--
- Okay. that you can adjust to, both
on Facebook and YouTube. So, what would you like
to ask the Vayner Nation? What is on your mind? What would you like to get a good, solid survey in return from? - I wanna know, whether
you have your own business or work for a bigger
company, I wanna know, do you feel loved and supported
by the people around you? Do you feel that the
cultures in which you work or the culture in which you're building are ones of cooperation and of trust? Or do you feel that you have to keep your guard up the entire time, and you can't really trust anybody, and you definitely can't trust your boss? I wanna know that. - And if you are feeling
supported and loved, tag that person. I think we are just not
deploying enough positivity-- - Agreed.
- And I think if somebody's doing that amazing thing for you, they would feel very nice
when this shows up in their notifications and realize
they're doing that for you. - Yeah, thanks very much, yeah, wonderful.
- Yeah, love you, pal. (hands slap) - Thanks a lot.
- Real good. You keep asking questions,
we'll keep answering them. (intense hip-hop music)
