ARE YOU CRAZY Mr.CHAN? - INTERVIEW (Francis Chan at premier.tv)

welcome along to premier TV I'm Justin Bradley and my special guest on today's program is Francis Chan he's a u.s. church leader and an author Francis it's great to have you with me in the studio today thanks good to be here you've got a really interesting story Francis you've been in charge of this growing vibrant Church in Southern California your it sounds like a pastor's dream warm weather a great congregation but you're giving it all up and you're not quite sure what the coming year holds for you many people would ask are you crazy and sometimes I ask myself the same question but it's it's you know I think about when we started the church it was a crazy idea and like so many things in life you can get comfortable after a while and stop living by faith and then you sense the Holy Spirit leading you to something new but you want to hold on to that security and what you know but that'll kill you you just end up getting so bored in life and you don't experience the supernatural and so there's certainly an element of I don't know if it's fear but it's just an uneasiness about being uncertain about the future but there's also this just a new life for me for my family of just going okay this is what our life's about is the mission and we believe the Holy Spirit is to a a new place let's just start moving and we'll figure it out from there I'd like to come back to that later on but perhaps take us back to the beginning where did kind of your Christian life start for you did you grow up in a Christian family I actually grew up I was raised by my grandmother who was Buddhist and came to Lourdes later but had a strange upbringing because my mother died while she was giving birth to me and then my dad remarried and then my stepmother died in a car accident when I was around 8 or 9 and then my dad got married again and then he died of cancer when I was 12 and so it was during those junior high high school years when I was to figure life out that I really came to a personal relationship with Christ and and really began to embrace who God was and understanding the Bible and it became everything to me and that's when I started telling all my friends about it and I guess I never stopped I mean in a way I don't in any way want to kind of analyze overanalyze but it could be said that obviously losing all those parental figures so early on in your life was that anything that sparked from that into you obviously getting so intimate with God you know that God became the parent in your life absolutely it's it's in fact sometimes I look at my kids and I go gosh they do they have it too easy they have a mom and dad we love each other and they're both alive you know because I look back and I think again it's that uncertainty and that I have no one else to depend on our family was not close was a lot of support there and so you learned to depend on God and God alone you make her decisions on that on him and pleasing him you start to see the hand of God on your life at an early age and I learned to love that he really became my father and in so many ways and it's not just a cliche or a song I sing it's wow he he's it for me and even now I look back in life and and that's why I can make moves like this and I go God's been faithful all these years he's taken me through crazy situations and so and to move to a new location or to start a new work really isn't that big a deal things have not changed because God has been the constant in my life you say establishing Cornerstone Church in Simeon California was in itself a bit of a crazy thing to do how did that all start in the first place my wife and I were we had just gotten married it was probably two or three weeks into the marriage when I looked at my wife and I said I know we've never talked about this but I think God wants me to started a church and it was a crazy time because I told her I go I don't know if anyone's going to show up so you'll have to support us and you'll have to take care of us financially if that's ok and I'm going to try to start this church and if nothing happens I'll wait tables or do whatever I need to do but let's just see and the whole premise was I go I I just want to I want to be with a group of people who are who are real I don't care how many there are I don't care for a big crowd I just want to know that when we get together that we're opening up this book the Bible in and we're saying whatever it says and we're really trying to do it and and when we worship we're really singing to him I don't want to worry about where money's going or is this real or is that real I just want a real experience did you have any training up to this point theological training or training to be a pastor I did I did and I was doing youth ministry and I had been involved in different churches I guess I just felt like not that all these other churches were wrong but I felt like the Lord was leading me into something new what then happened because you started off I think with a handful of people you know your first Sunday or whatever but within five years or so it was about one and a half thousand people getting together I mean that's extraordinary to me growth well what was the ingredient I I think as well as unexplainable things because God just blesses certain things or he is it's all up to him he chooses what's going to prosper and what won't and I don't I don't I don't dare to pretend that I'm the most spiritual person right I prayed more than anyone else and I'm more gifted than anyone else from that from early on we just saw the hand of God was on it because I made some really really dumb mistakes I mean really dumb mistakes cuz I I didn't know the first thing about running a church or starting a church and and so I just got this group of people and I go out what do you want to call it and someone said how about Cornerstone like okay that's funny you know I said okay someone's got to watch the kids and some lady said I'll watch the kids I'm like okay you're in charge I don't know you know she could have been a child molester I don't know anything about these people were just you know I go someone's got to take an offering and this guy goes oh I'll take the money and money and and here here's Israel we saw God's hand okay the guy that was collecting all the money he got in a fight with another guy in the church before we even started and he handed all the money bang goes I quit wow that's crazy now I don't have a treasurer so you know luckily we had someone else who stepped in but like two months later the guy who was our treasurer got arrested from bezel money from his company and was put in federal prison and I just felt like wow thank you Lord you made him get in that fight you got him out of there otherwise he would have started this church and had this big scandal of our treasures in prison right now Phil but there are so many things where God's going France if you dope it you know it's that's cute you're trying to start his church what you're doing so much wrong I'll fix it for you and and that's a story of my life is God coming alongside inevitably like I'm sure many a pastor you started this church with kind of just passion and enthusiasm really as the main things that were kind of driving things I mean obviously as the church grows you get so many complications come up and and I heard you in a recent sermon say how you know when it started up you know you kind of say what you wanted now because your sermons are listened to by thousands of people around the world the way you express something makes the difference between getting 50 or 500 emails next day yeah I mean how do you deal with that because it has become such a public ministry how do you keep in a sense that sense of spontaneity passion it's really hard and in fact that's part of the reason for me to unplugging from the public for a little while is starting to question myself I'm questioning my boldness my courage come on Kate is this still me you know or has all of this notoriety gotten to me am I to concern about what people think now am I worried about you know book ratings podcast rate let me just get away from everyone and get alone with the Lord again and maybe come out of that time with a fresh boldness because it does affect you I I fight it I fight it I fight it but there are times when I just realized I'm being way too in compacted by people is it a little like I don't know that situation in the book of Acts where Paul confronts Peter because he seems to have maybe gone back on his principles and he's he's acting differently because a certain group of people have suggested that you know it's out of there but that's true said you know oh you should be doing it this way and pull pull pull them up and says what are you doing you're yeah I mean I don't know that is that a kind of comparable kind of yeah probably I hate to compare myself to Peter you know it's similar to that I I think I I think until I get away from the crowd I won't even know what's wrong with me you know all the issues I have like I think maybe I just don't see myself clearly anymore I was watching I was at a friend's house as years ago and there was a reality TV show on it was it was Jessica Simpson and it was just kind of a dumb show where they were following her around her house and and you know with her husband and they were such be acting naturally and I thought that's impossible you can't act naturally when you've got cameramen in your house and lighting guys and sound guys and directors you know and and and it's I guess it's similar to that I think I wonder if I'm really acting naturally because how can I act naturally if I know people are listening or watching isn't that always a fact as to some degree it's inevitable that there's a kind of alternative reality you enter when you go into a certain I don't know stratosphere of recognizability within a certain subculture I suppose I appreciate it's very hard to deal with I mean how do you feel then the unplugging is going to help I mean it occurs to me that whatever you go on to do you're probably going to do successfully because you're a kind of driven person I mean how you're going to run into the same problem that you know yeah I think for a period of time I want to be somewhat obscure and and so as a family we'll probably go to some third world country where where they don't know why and don't really care really when you get to some of these impoverished areas they could care less and they just want to be fed or cared for a loved and they don't care who you are I just I want to be in that environment and and when I return to the states I'd really love to find a way to maybe be more of a cheerleader for other people's ministries to take some of these young guys and really build into their lives and launch them and I don't know whatever the Lord leads me to do I'll do I believe but I personally would love to just disciple other guys and put them to the forefront let's talk about some of your books Frances crazy love came out a couple of years ago he urges people to get a better picture of God do you think we've lost sight of God's holiness in after the Western Christianity absolutely without a doubt you know we read the New Testament in it it speaks a lot about the grace of God and this relationship and this intimacy we could have with him but we forget that these people at that time already had a great understanding of the fear of the Lord and this reverence and the holiness of God and so now here 2,000 years later we focus on some of these New Testament teachings without the background of understanding that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and again that's emphasized in the New Testament too and certainly through you know towards the end of the book of Revelation you see that God's a holy God but it seemed like there was just this trend in churches awhile back where we would make fun of those Hellfire and brimstone preachers ah you know those those old-time pastors and you look at the scriptures you go but that's what the Scriptures teach and and as the world influenced the church sadly and made us feel silly for believing in a Hell or believing in a God who was all-powerful and could strike people down you know we as a church almost float with the culture and go yeah yeah it's not really like that anymore and and yet you read the scriptures and go sure he is he was the same yesterday today and forever let's not let's not be swayed by the culture let's go back to what the truth has always been from the beginning and has never been popular I mean that's what we're called to do do you feel then let things like I don't know the seeker sensitive movement have maybe been to blame for kind of making God too much your best friend and your pal and the guy who you kind of turn to when you need some help rather than the driving impulse of your life I certainly think there's elements of the seeker-sensitive movement that I've had an effect on that but it depends on how you define it's all semantics I think at the end of the day we we have to make sure we don't get embarrassed of the character of God and what it is like even if it is unpopular in the world and I you know the but I think of a Luke 6:26 where he says woe to you when all men speak well of you for that's how your fathers treated the false prophets you know but you look at the true prophets and they were always rejected and that's that's another part of my life where I'm constantly keeping in check because I go Lord you tell me that at the end people won't put up with sound doctrine and to be careful when you get too popular because that's where the false prophets were treated but the true prophets were always persecuted so sometimes I look at my life and I go god I don't think I'm supposed to be this popular is there something in my life that I'm watering down as a part of a message that I'm so wanting to please people or wanting to be like that I'm not willing to say because I want to say it all I don't want to end my life having fooled myself when in reality I just wanted to please people and be liked and be popular I don't want that I want to end and no guy I said it all I didn't hold back it wasn't ashamed and so as a church we have to be very careful of that that we don't go down these roads that too many people have gone down before you seem to be quite critical in a way of American Christianity you feel like I mean you asked in the book are we missing it you know is this really what was intended at Pentecost 2,000 years ago and and you seem to have had a lot of people who are similarly maybe worried that we we haven't got this right yeah that was a question I used to be scared to ask because I thought maybe it's just me because I look around church it seems like everyone's okay with it everyone seems happy everyone seems fine why is there this internal struggle every time I read the Bible of feeling like what we're doing doesn't match up to this book it seems like there's so much more but doesn't seem like it's bothering anyone else I'll just keep quiet maybe I'm just going crazy but then once I brought it up all these heads start nodding and and I think there is a I know there's a lack of peace in so many people those who get alone with the word of God and and hear from the Holy Spirit as they're reading the word they know we're being lukewarm they know there's more and there isn't as much peace as sometimes we pretend there is in our lives because we look at the way those early believers lived and what they were willing to sacrifice and we're looking at our lives and going this doesn't match up and yet during the times in our lives when we do put ourselves at risk those are the only times we really feel peace we go and possibly there any times we feel truly alive and it is it is and we experience God versus just going to a comfortable situation and and trying to feel him no it's when we're out suffering and and living like a New Testament believer that we truly experience him you do take that injunction in Revelation quite seriously this idea that God will spit out a lukewarm Christian yeah many people may feel uncomfortable with that you know we'll what about grace what about the fact that it's not about what we do is it God accepts us on the basis of what he's done for us how do you kind of balance that yeah but when you look at his praise His grace is shown in changing us in making us like his son that passage you know it's interesting even that phrase lukewarm Christian I don't I don't see that in the scripture first these people's lukewarm and he also refers them as blind naked poor wretched pitiable and he says I'm going to spit you out of my mouth because you're lukewarm now I don't see that as a description of a believer that are you saying that if you are lukewarm basically you're not a Christian that's what I see in revelation 3 I don't know how you can read that passage and call that person Christian because the Christian is not going to be spit out of the mouth of God I mean that's quite a significant statement because it would suggest then that on the face of it you see a lot of churches in America that are simply full of people who aren't actually Christians absolutely because you it's always been that way and Jesus explains look it's going to be the wheat and the tares it's going to be this group of people that grow together and the time of harvest he's going to show who's for real you know you its from the beginning of that book you see Israel and yet he says not all of Israel everyone who's you know Israel by nationality is true Israel there'll be that remnant there'll be those believers within that midst and in the same way as there are millions and millions of people gathering in what we call these church buildings those are no followers of Jesus Christ Jesus you can look at their lifestyles and you can tell that first John says though we people say that they know him but he says but because they don't obey his commands he says they're liars it doesn't say oh you know maybe there are believers that haven't changed yet he just says I can look at their lifestyles and know that they're liars and there's this wide road that leads to destruction and many will go through it but there's this narrow road that leads to life and few will find it and we want it we want to tell the world just like the world won't say everyone's going to heaven there is no hell and the church almost follows suit with that of saying we're all believers you know in this room because we all prayed a prayer at some point in our life I just don't see that in the scriptures I mean some might say goodness how on earth did your church grow in the way it has if this was the way you were challenging people every week this is not kind of seeker-sensitive Christianity in that way I mean do you feel then that I don't know living up to the challenge of Scripture actually is more attractive in its way than a kind of dumbed down kind I think for the true believer it is I think the Holy Spirit makes us long for that even though in our flesh we resist it and and we in the flesh want to be comfortable I want to be rich I want to just take it easy and be all about me but something inside the Holy Spirit himself just he won't let me gravitate that way in Romans says that we're slave to righteousness now and and so when we hear truth we're enslaved to that it's I know that's true and I want it I do want it I do want it in the core of me even though my flesh is fighting I know that's what I have to go with and so I think that believers do gravitate toward that true teaching and and that's not to say that we don't have hypocrites you know I had Cornerstone there there are plenty of fake people and and you see that over time it's like that parable the soils they stick around but once the trials come and once a temptation comes you realize they really never had any root in themselves so moving on from cornerstone is it because of itchy feet or is it just you really feel like this is what God's calling you to do at this time I do I do believe it's a calling of God that has been on my life for the last few years but I just don't believe it was right the right timing and my wife also felt the same thing and we've had more and more talks about it especially over the last year it's there's there's a lot of reasons one is in the town we're at there are a lot of churches there are a lot of good believers and even my church itself the elders are so strong and such such godly god-fearing bible-believing men who will not water things down and so I go okay the church is in great hands and so if I just move half an hour away there are literally millions of people and very few people who want to go in that environment I also I also look at the life of Christ and I look at his example in Philippians 2 of leaving heaven and and what he really could grasp but he didn't consider that equality with God something dead be held on to but he he humbled himself and made himself nothing and you know first John 3:16 talks about how he laid down his life for us so we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and my wife and I have been talking about how can i really give a picture of christ unless i to lay down comforts and and freedoms that that people say oh it's okay for you to live here in this comfortable area and do this i go i know it's okay but my heart gravitates toward i want to be like christ i don't feel like i resemble him in my actions right now maybe in my speech i do but in my actions i want to I I want to go to those who really have need and that stay here it sounds like you're not exactly sure what that future may hold but I understand you have had thoughts about maybe sort of prayer walking in some major cities and just seeing whether God might have something for you there well what do you think that will do for you what will what why that particular way of looking at you know going to the city and yeah and walking through it right yeah you know when I get excited about as believers we say a lot of big statements like I would go anywhere the Lord has called me but in the back of our minds we have an escape route that says but right now you know I can't go anywhere because I've got a house payment or I just had a child or until my kids are this age and you know we we almost have this safety mechanism yeah so that we don't actually have to go see I wanted to put myself in a situation where I really can't end up anywhere and I just want to know that I'm for real you know you ever just sometimes doubt yourself because we can fool ourselves and and and we can rationalize things and we can almost start believing things that aren't true and so I'd love to just travel some places and say Lord I am completely free so if I'm in India and and I really believe you're calling me there I can just say okay we're staying here or I could be in New York walking the streets and going I think we're supposed to be in this neighborhood and and I don't know if that's what the Lord's going to do but I just look forward to that type of journey where I really don't I just want to be in every neighborhood and say okay what I really just stay here this is what God's calling me to and I have I have no ties other than to the elders at the church because I want those ties and I want those men to build into my life but I'll go I want to go anywhere do you anticipate that future will still involve writing producing DVDs I mean obviously this is something you've done recently DVDs are the latest thing you've you've done it some of your teaching yeah and that kind of film format that's become quite popular among churches and small groups is that when you feel I don't know I want to surrender that to and say lord I may never write another book I don't care I mean ever I may never do another public sermon I I may end up in an orphanage that no one knows about and and yet I want to be faithful God if this is what you've called me to and and you've given me a platform for a reason I want to be faithful to that at the same time I don't want to be tied to anything and that's why I haven't made any long-term deals with any publishers or anything like that I go look I I don't want to say okay I'll come into five books or six videos or I just want a day by day if the Lord leads me to it I'll do it otherwise want that pressure it's a bit like the incredible disappearing Francis Chan could it be but I mean what I mean by that in a sense is you know what what John says you know I must decrease so that he may increase is that is that kind of where this whole motivation comes from there's some of that too certainly some of that where I if the Lord leads me to that or directs me to that I've told my church before I don't like hearing my name so much and I said really one of the problems in our church is when I hear you talk I hear the words Francis Chan more than I hear the words Holy Spirit and if we're going to go nowhere fast if if that's the way we're going to keep talking and I don't know I'm so confused about some of this we're you know obviously people knew who the Apostle Paul was and I knew Peter and and and you see them fighting and trying to you know and they're lifted up as gods in these different places reading that in the book of Acts the other day gone gosh I mean they were actually bowing down to these people and they're quick to no no no don't you dare do that I'm just a man I'm just a man and so obviously that fight has been from the beginning and of course it was Paul he said you know some say I'm for Paul some for Apollo's Hedley but he directs them back to God and that's I guess what you've been trying to do that yeah and I just it's just such a fine line because I know I know there have been times when pride was just so in me in the Lord broke me I remember one time getting ready to speak at a conference and and there was a magazine on every chair and my face you know it was like the whole front of the magazine and and honestly there was a side of me that liked it and I remember during the worship time before I spoke God just showed that to me just how disgusting that was and I remember just bawling like a baby you know just what have I become and I'm just a you know not little tears I mean just wailing during worship and no one else knows because I'm on the ground I'm you know snots coming up no I mean I was a mess and then suddenly worships over and they're like hey welcome Frances and I get up there and I'm just a mess because I'll give you a Kleenex like that you know and I just had to confess to everyone I go I've become everything I didn't want to be and I don't even know what I'm going to say right now I'm so disgusted with myself God is disgusted with his attitude that I've had even coming into here and I just confessed everything to these pastors and it's it's weird you almost don't see it in yourself and it's so easy to fall into that trap of I guess believe it you know yeah living a surface life but but in reality there's like a kind of pride that's that's underneath thank you so much for the time we spent together Frances I wish we had more time to chat but I just loved your honesty and you know your spirit and the the challenge of what you say as well which I think to anybody finds himself in a similar place but thank you for joining us today too good to be here well my name is Justin Bradley and I'd like to thank you for joining us for this program on premiere TV you

Channel: venetable

Views: 153,423

Rating: 4.8477507 out of 5

Keywords: francis, chan, premier, tv, 2010

Id: YHa5HdHIj90

Length: 30min 18sec (1818 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 11 2011