Are You Called to Preach?

[Music] welcome to the front porch Sabini on you wheeler i'm luis love and I'm Tony Carter and man today we're gonna kick it a little bit on a really important subject in fact this is a subject that is inescapable in the life of a church and that's the notion of a call and preach and so folks come to us sometimes young man and say hey I'm feeling a call the church has a responsibility in that regard so and so forth so it's critical it is it is that we think it's clearly about this yeah because so much the life of the church is hinged upon it so so what is a call they even like that language do you I know some guys who only like to talk in those terms right but but what is a call yeah well you know what again Carter preached about this and your opening message on creation and I'm not I'm not liking the term call the way it is use them in regards to ministry because what has happened in the tradition I grew up in is when you say a person felt a call to ministry it's always it has those certain elements in it you know you know I I felt the Lord speaking to me that's never qualified I really didn't want to do it you know the run the Jonah thing that's always in the call and the reluctance and all of that and and and then Jonah Jeremiah all that kind of stuff all right and some or some experience like Paul and no that's and that and then it what it does is it makes ministry this makes it mystical hmm and if you don't if you if you don't have that you know then then perhaps you or or another thing to its other folks other people in the congregation and say boy you know Lord told me you gonna call you call you to preach and all that crap all people and that kind of stuff so I'm in light of your message I'm really getting leery of that terminology hmm because as you were made very clear that you know our call that we have in life is it's it's might be different things that we do but it's all basically the same in terms of honoring God glorifying him and his purpose for us yeah I'm kind of leery of it I understand it though and Archer just to understand that I wouldn't say I would not use it again I'm not liking it as time goes on that's one of the beauties and the glories of the Reformation you know the Reformation one of the things that the Reformers the Magisterial reformers did is they kind of reclaimed that sense of calling upon life prior to the to the Reformation I'm calling which comes from the Latin word Macari which we get vocation was really thought to be something that only happened for us you know and it was the Magisterial reformers who kind of particularly Martin Luther who kind of reclaimed an idea you know that if it's from God all of life is a calling you know whatever your head whatever if your hand is given to dudes and said Nick please that's it do it wholeheartedly you know do it onto the Lord and so I think coming out of the Reformation there was a better sense of that calling happens to all who are in Christ you have been called to be mission on mission for Christ whatever vocation he's given you but I think we've got to moved away from that once again and begin to use the language of calling only for those in professional ministry and like you said I think I understand what we're talking about yeah in that sense because if a person sense does that God has laid on their heart the the Ministry of the gospel then that too is a call hmm and in the calling there's a calling from God surely to proclaim the Gospel as a calling from God to be a pastor to be an elder to be a missionary to be an evangelist whatever and so it is a calling it is a calling is not V Kali you know I think we didn't we can make a distinct but it is they call it oh and we can see that biblically acts 13 ya know the spirit special Church set apart from me Paul and Barnabas and called you get the call language there we see it even though you don't see that same language of calling we see it in Paul reminding Timothy at the elders of laid hands on him and by prophetic word have set him apart for the work of the ministry and so on what s interesting that that that text there in Timothy in particular because um Timothy's ministerial vocation was a it was a community callings right it wasn't Timothy in his bedroom getting a vision that's right it's been and Paul to stir Timothy on he reminds him of of the participation of the congregation namely the elders yeah in his in his location no I think that's exactly right and historically a calling has been understood to have two parts mm-hm there is a sense of desire first Timothy 3:1 if a man desires to be an overseer as that internal subjective sense of calling but there's also the external sure call the part that the congregation and the leadership play in affirming a person's character their gifting and so on yeah so so we had a void two things I like what you said when you talk about some people come and they called you sure I got a word you're gonna be a pastor or no no if the external call it met with the internal call you don't have a calling and the opposite is true if the internal subjective sense of calling isn't confirmed by an external call right you don't have a caller right whatever that thing is it ain't got a calling and those two extremes that was what was what it's what makes the language of calling problematic are those two extremes because if a guy no matter or gal whatever no matter what's going on with them they become you know they become the the standard for for what's before God's doing in our life it's so individualistic and so he said why you know you you can't tell me that I ain't been called right right and it and you say well yes yes I can yeah but and and and then it works the other way well you know what mama and then daddy and all thereby 80 putting the young fella in ministry and everybody church no he shouldn't be in ministry mmm but they say it so he doesn't because they say it yeah and of course in either case particularly that first case someone who thinks they have a calling into the work of the ministry who asserts I know I have this call you can't tell me ya are beginning the work of the ministry already with a and the I yeah congregational anti-authority unteachable yep kind of spit sure and and and the Lord never calls us to engage in the family of God in that way with that kind of thinking of ourselves more highly she then we think of others that just that's just completely inverts the thing it twists the thing you know there's nothing that strikes me is the conversation about calling seems to mean is almost always abstracted from the rest of the the ministerial office is the duty of the office and a Congregational Church so when people say everything means I feel called to preach my instinct is to say oh that's good but do you feel called them love people you feel call the Shepherd people you know so and you look at first Timothy three apt to teach is is one quality among a list of qualities and it's a list of qualities that define someone who's qualified to oversee not someone to preach you know and that that oversight that Bishop function includes with its shepherding the congregation leading the congregation it is a whole lot more involved in pastoral ministry than just preaching it's not less than preaching but it's more than preacher sure and and so you feel it seems like to me that when you abstract preaching from the rest of those things and really what you you you didn't set out to think of it this way but sometimes what you all you're really saying is can that guy talk hmm you know getting up his gums for 30 minutes and be more or less interesting and yet that when viewed that way that's well beneath the standards of the scripture but that's how its viewed oftentimes wrong and that's unfortunate but it's really like when I was growing up that's that's all it was yeah that's why you can have seven eight nine ten year old boy let's get up there and say guys call him the priest let's get him up there and preaching and now you have all these you know young kid preachers because the office of pastor or the calling to preach is viewed nothing more than just that the colon is running about because you wouldn't ask that little boy to do any of those other things right that's right no you put that on him that's exactly right he is not even able to exercise the privileges of membership sure with any kind of authority or ability and yet now you're gonna take something that belongs to the office of leadership and give it to him it's like you wouldn't let the seven-year-old drive the car right you know or teach a class to adults when you can stand there and you can and you can expound passages convert to adults that's exactly even even the bumping of the gums for 30 minutes or so no even if that was viewed with some kind of standard hmm a lot of guys would be exempt yeah I mean it they would be put it would be excluded I should say excluded from from from preaching and he and I would I want to hasten to say if a little fella in my church came to me eight years old and said I want to feel like I want to preach I'm not gonna discourage oh no but I'm certainly not going to make him a preacher in the you know I'm gonna said it's not that's it that's a great thing if that's what the Lord has for you that's a great thing if he calls you to be something else that's a great thing but dumb reven FD bets man Fred Betts was pastor of my mom's church for 50 years and he would be driving his little Cadillac and all that Cologne oh and he see us riding our bikes around town he'll pulled over and he's talked real slow he said what y'all doing and so we just out riding our bikes revving bets you say I'm gonna talk to that man uptown and get you a job get your job on the garbage truck he'd be like sorry none wrong with that that's honest work you know back to Coleman sure those folks who work in sanitation yeah are ministers of Lord that they're ministers of government ministers of Romans 13 and ministers of the Lord nothing wrong with that calling and so I you know if 8 year old came to me and said I feel like I want to preach that's great but you know what if you worked on a garbage truck son and did that you know Colossians 3 or to the glory of the Lord that preaches to see if that young tell you man came to me and said that you know got caught him to preach I would I would say you know that's that's great that's I'm innocent it's a noble it's a noble calling and you think that God has called you to do that but I would say you do realize that before that God has some immediate colleagues on your life that I like to ask you first about he's called you to be obedient to your pen you know are you are you pursuing that it's good with the same design and you want to Kokomo pursue this calling what immediately is God calling you to do and how faithful are you being in that calling before you want to already have some calling you already have some kisana son student yes you know any number of things there how are you handling see now you're putting it back in the discipleship context aren't ya you're not just sort of talking about can you talk you're sort of pushing down into how you living yeah how are you stewarding the situation the Lord already has you in in it and that's prerequisite to taking on in some point future this this other stewardship this other called really important I think the environment kind of draws that out too because if it's in if it's in a church context we're calling the term calling is being misused all the time then you have eight-year-old coming up talking by like I've been called if that's what they're hearing they hear that with the old folks talking you know one day that one day God gonna call that boy to preach right now they hear all that concept left to church context does not misuse the terminology like that it's very rarely to get an 8 year old boy saying like I've been called in every day before he might come and say you know I want to preach huh but right he might say that that's happened before when wouldn't it within our church they say you know I want to preach one of these days hey I want to be a preacher the Lord have called on you can start rolling white he's like you could slide into now there's a people go along with that yeah and plus he's talking about something like that's huge that's in the future not right now so I think the church context kind of drives that that language that talking that maybe that feeling in little boys that was what I grew up in yeah so so how I mean what are you guys doing whether it's a young guy that you sort of pushing to think about just discipleship grow up son but you know there's some maturity that has to be in place and and encourage you as you pursue that maturity whether it's that or whether it's the more typical case right of a young man in the congregation maybe since 20 maybe since thirties or forties yeah and and he's feeling a burden now to preach he's he's sensing subjectively the Lord may be calling him how are you guys walking with persons who are feeling that what would you what would you normally do we had someone in that case yeah yeah I mean I guess at that point if there's somebody who's who's kind of experiencing or expressing a legitimate idea that they want to pursue gospel ministry pulpit Ministry pastoral ministry then it becomes it becomes the illnesses on us as the church and as the leaders to really begin to pray about and see if we can identify in him those qualities that the Scriptures hold out that the pastor and the eldership should have and so it's walking with him you know it's praying with was walking with it was asking them questions in his it was like if he's married you know you say well are you able to lead your wife are you leading your wife faithfully because you're not gonna be able to leave the family of God you're not leading your own family so let's talk about you know are you leading your life are you able to teach your wife in such a way that she's able to receive it no because you're fooling yourself if you're thinking that you're gonna get up there and teach other people you're not able you know teach and lead your wife so it's those things and then putting those materials in his hands that really need to be in advance let's talk about your study life let's talk about your study habits you know what type of studying are you doing apart from coming to us because don't think that all of a sudden you get in the password and now you gonna become a student that needs to be something they are all right that's right desire to know the word nota theological issues that they're going on in and outside of scriptures and so on are those things they're encouraged those things and more provide opportunities for the team you know to really get his feet wet and see is this something that you really want to do our you just in love with the idea sure yeah and and most of that being the under shepherd you're going to know yep about him some degree to some degree when he comes so yeah along with that yes it really then it turns into if if a young man comes to me and he has that that that sense right and our cognition is small so I know the men in our congregation right I know the little boys in our congregation and it got a pretty good handle to some degree right on on what some of their passions are you know what they what they're pursuing and so I probably be surprised right and so then once once he expressed is that then it then it turns into like you mentioned a minute ago turns into a discipleship relationship an intentional discipleship relationship would have that I might not be able to have to ed with everybody in the congregation you know but I that's going to be special for me as his pastor to be especially if I if I've sensed already that there there are some things in his life that that leans toward that he studious he loves to study the Bible he he wants to talk about the odds he he's a he already already shares he proclaims the gospel around where he goes right he's teaching his family he's doing those things you can tell he just has a heart for he wants to get the truth out there he and he has a good rapport with people he he loves people he wants to serve them he's doing those things and and and then then it just turns into an intentional discipleship thing with him about the specifics of ministry yeah you know and or even if he's in a even if he's in a geometric that's in a in a vocation it's not his full-time vocation but he's in a vocation where he wants to be sharing the gospel in a in a more direct way and and he's doing it already and so then I felt like my obligation is to get with him and to help him and to and to instruct him and to disciple him know so that what he wants to do in that turn and that way of sharing the gospel I can help him with that yeah it turns into intentional discipleship but we're traditionally I think in a lot of churches certainly not all churches and not all traditions but sort of baptistin traditions out of which we come often what would happen is young me said I have a call to preach and you know you you people tell story the pastor said well we don't see you know in two weeks later they're preaching their trial sir NASA I think a better stewardship of that individual and a better service to the church is what you brothers are describing in terms of deciphering and cultivating cultivating the things that need to be there I think of as I listened to you guys talk I think of Tony pain and I forget the other brother the trellis and the Ba'ath an event just doing that work on those three C's character conviction you know they are theologically biblically rooted and competence and probably in that order you know looking at character pouring into him so that his convictions are deep in and sharpen and then being able to trust and and extend opportunity develop confidence on teaching Shepherd and all these all these other ways that that grid it seems as a useful grid for thinking about and think about preparation for assuming the Colin because there's one thing to have a desire it's another thing to actually be in the calling in the role and and I think it's useful to think about the time between that period that period of time between feeling like your call and beginning a process with your leadership to actually having that that call matured and confirmed by congregation and exercising the responsibilities and accountabilities so this is vital man supplier in the home church yes it's vital because there is a lot of misunderstanding about it and I think it's time and I don't know if there's being if there's a real good job being done with explaining it when it means we internet stuff and then different things on preaching in that sort of stuff I don't know if they really being clear enough maybe a couple things to recommend then Dave Harvey's book a my call excellent short little book thinking about this ed clownin wrote a book some years ago called call two minutes kind of mansion more recent years al Mohler Dan Dumas the guys over Southern did a little workbook little book called call to the ministry knots as well other things Halla I think the overall justjust on calling as Minister aspects in it but you know as Guinness know yeah a book on the call you know it is really really a good book just understanding the call in general boscogn is on calling on yeah yeah yeah that's really good and then in that regard just to understand what calling is what is that when you you used some love when you and you're on your message on on creation well I use a couple a couple thing Tim Keller has a book on work and he just came out wit not to that you know I think it's got a meaning of work and Steve Nichols has a little book on what his vocation that was very helpful and that regard as as well so that kind of puts it back into the category should be in in terms of of all of all of life nothing but if a young man comes as that understanding it's gonna help him understand what's happening in his heart if he senses subjectively that that the Lord might be dealing his heart about ministry yeah and praise God the Lord still calls me mr. Smee oh yeah and I was thinking yeah and and and know this is not only a it is so it's a privilege and a joy even if it's an eight-year-old who comes is that I I think I want to preach preach one day what a wonderful thing if you have a church man where there's no men seeking to be pastors and you're not raising up man that searches dying that's right yeah it's right there in in the in the book the book they did in honor of Kent Hughes now I can't think of his name to the chapter on on second Timothy pepper - mm-hmm you know the chapter was a chapter I can't take some of the to - yeah I'm faithful man yes I can't chapter in the book no but my little red book I'm talking about he did for kid Hughes I know you talked about yeah baby I guess I can think of the book but anyway it's a book and honoree it's an honor his honor and Kenny Hughes and it's a it's the chapter on a second Timothy where he talks about raising up the faithful men now something like this one what you're saying about praising God for for they still calling men and I think that's part of our part of our responsibility is to is to be intentional on identifying and and working with men so for that specific that's at the heart of the calling worth four passes to ten minutes to two and and in fact you know I've heard it said I've often said this to the guys at our church that every man ought to set as a goal to at least be qualified as an elder and sure maybe may never be called to be so that's right but that kind of maturity and solidity that an elder supposed to have that's right just another picture of godly biblical man and so every brother ought to have that that that goal of being or qualified whether or not well article every men in front porch folks every men and elder our own field of insurgency a good chopping this up man and now may the Lord raise up an army of faithful faithful brothers proclaim his word and not only proclaim his word but Shepherd his people God thank you for joining us on the porch [Music] you [Music]

Channel: The Front Porch

Views: 55,546

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Keywords: The Front Porch, Church, Thabiti, Preach, Louis, Tony Carter, Call

Id: nED0lVYyej4

Length: 24min 50sec (1490 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 28 2014