Apostle Gino Jennings vs. Gay Pastor Harry Knox (Homosexuality Full Debate)

you're about to witness a discussion between our master Jennings of the First Church of our Lord Jesus Christ and Harry Knox now Harry Knox is the program director of an organization called Freedom to Marry it's an organization that I believe supports gays and they're privileged I believe has he was described it to Mary the topic of the discussion today will be is it God's will is it God's will for man to marry men and to engage in sexual relations is the biblical discussion and we ask that those are attended and those were watching and listening on the radio listen carefully as a the answer discussion proceeds again you're witnessing the 16th holy international convocation of the First Church of our Lord Jesus Christ and this is the truth of God radio and television program having said that now represent on to the servant of God and our general Lewis ER pastor native teacher and guide and messenger of the Almighty God masterji no Janis greetings brothers and sisters we thank you on God was divine wisdom and it's perfect understanding of all things we are indebted to him for sending to us the prophets we are grateful to him for sinning and building the revelation of the Scriptures to his apostles we thank him for the way of hauling district bill to his servants for our learning we are blessed to be gathered together here at the concluding of our holy convocation it looks beautiful in here today we're glad to have with us dr. Harry Knox he is the program director of the Freedom to Marry organization we thank him for accepting the invitation to come that we may have a scriptural discussion on God's divine will and God's divine purpose it's gonna be a very interesting discussion because this is something that is not just in America but it's fraud around the world same-sex marriages so I'm grateful that he agreed to come then that give the viewing audience EU data here a chance to hear from his and from their perspective and we want you to listen attentively we don't want no unnecessary interruptions if you desire to clap you can but otherwise in that we want everyone to listen and most importantly follow in the scriptures so to my television viewers I'm no stranger to you get close to your box with your family close call your relative until the television stations don't go getting staticky on me now let's keep everything clear go black in the screen out those squiggly lines making our heads look extraordinary just keep it like it's supposed to be and we we was going to give each one myself the opening remarks of 20 minutes and dr. Knox 20 minutes but he asked for more time for opening remarks and of course we agreed so whatever time he need for his opening remarks we want you to be patient and we want you to listen there will not be no questions asked from the audience it's gonna be Scripture myself and dr. Knox that's enough in fact the script is alone is enough and I know for some that's too much but we want you to listen very carefully my viewing audience we want you to listen carefully and while the program is being aired you have a privilege to call into the studio you can call into the studio the gay community can call into the studio because this program is no stranger to them and all the viewers you are privileged to call it to the studio and when you do so I ask you to please make your calls very short besides to the point whether it's positive or negative we welcome both alright brothers and sisters we gonna like you among get out your way because I'm very much interested and hearing dr. Knox and I'm just gonna sit back in my chair and kind of rock a little why I listen that dr. Harry let us give him your attention brothers and sisters dr. Harry now thank you all so very much will you bow with me for just a moment please let the words of my mouth and the meditation of all of our hearts be acceptable to you who are our Creator our Redeemer and our sustaining friend amen I am enormous ly grateful to you and to Pastor Jennings for the invitation to come and share this time together it's a time when many people of faith are shouting slogans at each other and slinging arrows in the culture wars it's a contentious time in the American church unlike any that we have seen since my childhood and the tremendous struggle for greater equality for African Americans and other people of color in this country in this troubling time your good pastor has invited us all to wrestle yes but as Jacob at the river jae bok not as contestants in a battle where some will win and some will lose he has called on us to worry and pray and struggle and work until we find a blessing and to do so together it's an unusual invitation most church leaders are fearful of any conversation about sexuality and especially homosexuality and those who take it up are generally content to make it a one-sided conversation to make it a sermon not a dialogue it feels much safer that way but pastor Jennings has recognized at least two great foundations of Christian leadership that effective leaders do not fear discs that helps us find out what is really true and that the truth sets us all free topics of homosexuality in our faith are almost always discussed in church and denominational settings without us gay people there to speak for ourselves you and pastor Jennings have accorded me a basic dignity today that is usually denied to me and the people like me in these settings so when I say to you that I'm grateful for this invitation I'm not just going through the motions of every speaker to a new audience believe me I'm not I am truly truly grateful I'm here to share with you first my personal testimony as a gay man and a Christian and then to participate in a dialogue with Pastor Jennings I pray that my testimony and our discussion will be edifying for you we'll help each of you develop a fuller relationship with the God who sent God's Son to die for each of us that we might be saved when I was in high school in the late 1970s I heard the great opera singer leontyne price you all remember leontyne price I heard her sing on the television one night at a Christmas program at the White House what was already one of my favorite Christmas carols oh holy night that night miss price sang the whole song and that was unusual because the whole song doesn't usually fit into what they'll play on a radio station and so we don't usually hear the second verse of O Holy Night but that night she sang it that night in my youth I had never thought before of a Christmas carol as a song of liberation but mispriced knew better than I and taught an important lesson that stayed with me and became for me a theme of my theological understanding and an ordination for my life's work everything we do or say about Jesus must be judged by the standards of love peace and the Justice they both require and Jesus if you read the book is always always for the oppressed those simple truths are both exhilarating and fearful for me as a gay man in America I have often felt the sting of oppression and they sound good to me when that happens to me I know what it's like to lose a job that I love and at which I excel because of a status that I cannot change I know that feeling that's happened to me I know what it's like to hear the slights and the slurs I know what it's like to be pounded upon by people who disagree with me about this issue we're going to talk about today literally pounded upon with the words an attached queen I know what that feels like and when I hear that word of liberation it's exhilarating and exciting to me Jesus is for me but I saw also here in it a word of judgment because as a rich white man in America I know how often I am the oppressor and not be oppressed all my life I have lived with this dichotomy with this tension the law of love leads to peace but it doesn't deliver any of us there without struggle I never have thought that was fair but God's providence has proved better for me than my own desire for an easy or Oh peace I'm gonna start talking about the Bible in a few minutes I promise when I was a child I really thought that if I loved God and prayed and tried to do the right thing God would see to it that my life was easy if I prayed God would answer my prayers in the way that I asked them and life would go along okay and I think my parents and the church were a little complicit in that belief they led me to believe that all I had to do was be a good boy and pray and love God and everything would be okay but life did not turn out to be that easy or that simple life turned out to be as messy as adulthood is for us all I'd never wanted to be homosexual and I tried not to be all around me the culture in this country and in my hometown in a little burg in South Georgia said find a nice Christian girl and get married that's not all it said in this culture you know what it really said it wasn't that polite wasn't it said have sex all the time that's what we hear in America all the time we are so hyper sexual it hurts in so many ways but my culture told me being gay was wrong and sometimes at church I heard that being gay was wrong it was not as popular in my childhood to talk about the issues it is now but that's all right it needs to be talked about and I tried not to be homosexual I really tried I dated lots of smart beautiful kind lovely women and at first they thought I was polite and respectful and disciplined when I gave them little hearted kisses on the cheek at the end of dates but a little of that politeness went a long way finally they were a little insulted or worse wondered aloud if there was something wrong with them when I didn't show them the kind of interest in them that other boys showed so I tried even harder and the results were disastrous I prayed I really really prayed I prayed believing I prayed unceasingly you know what unceasing prayer is like unless you prayed like I pray not to be gay in this country in the 1970s and 80s I prayed when I had prayed about other things that I believed to be sin in my life that I had been convicted of that God had told me was wrong I found power to overcome them every time every time oh it was hard work it took a while I had to get into good habits all of the things that we always do but I found the power but not on this way in spite of the fact that I really wrestled and prayed I didn't just pray to be changed because it was inconvenient for me to be gay because people like to beat up boys in South Georgia that wasn't the only reason I prayed for a much more important and fundamental reason I did so because when I heard the story of Samuel and Eli in the Bible do you remember the story Samuel Samuel he goes and wakes up Eli the priest says for the priest I hear you says I'm not calling you Hana's again priest says I'm not calling you Samuel happens a third time priest says God is calling you Samuel when I heard that story even as a child I could relate because I felt that call in my life God was my closest and best friend my relationship with God even as a child I was a weird kid that was even as a little guy meant more to me than anything else in this world I felt the call to ministry to preach and I prayed to be relieved of homosexuality because I knew it stood in the way of my ministry it stood in the way of everything I could imagine ministry to be with my limited knowledge I prayed believing and for the right reasons and unceasingly and you know God really did answer him a prayer he just didn't answer it the way I wanted God answered my prayer by sending a wonderful man into my life whose name was Reb Brown he's dead now I wish you could have known him he was cool he loved to laugh and he made everybody around him laugh he played the piano like nobody's business and finally made a living at it in no less than New York City he was good he's good he was strong strong he had the kindest eyes you can ever imagine he could fix things that I would have thrown away he raised houseplants that looked like they came out of a greenhouse why am I telling you all of that he was so human and so cool and just like us had things he was good at God answered my prayers by putting me in ministry as a student pastor a little wide spot in a narrow road called Uvalde Georgia and there in that little 90 member congregation in South Georgia where two openly gay men and they were telling the truth about their lives and their families came to me from pastoral guidance and I ran as fast as I could go from those conversations I was fearful love the Bible says casts out all fear I didn't love them in the way a pastor should I didn't wrestle and pray with them I got out of there fearful that what mattered to me what was comfortable for me my status would be in jeopardy if I helped them to really get at the truth they ministered to me but I administer much to them but the Lord was answering my prayer I had asked to be changed and God was changing me God answered my prayer by giving me great teachers in seminary who challenged me to study the Bible and to honor it as God's Word these women and men loved the scriptures and as we will do today they wrestled him for a blessing no one can spend much time in the Bible and not have a lot of questions the Bible is not a simply stated formula for life it reflects in its difficulty and conflict the realities of our human lives its paradoxes and contradictions are signs it says about life is tested in the crucible of truth it isn't easy to understand because if it were we wouldn't really think it was relevant to us who have to slug it out in this thing called life in the hard hardness of the world who have to wrestle with hard issues and try to figure out what's right if the bible just said here are the easy solutions here are the list of rules we wouldn't pay any more attention than a child does the Bible is a circuitous and tantalizing and inviting and mesmerizing and absolutely interesting as our human lives and I love it I am NOT a child any longer God and I have gone through some stuff together kind of like my parents and I have my parents don't treat me like a child anymore because we've lived through some stuff together I don't ask God from a lunch money anymore I know life's not that easy and God doesn't pin it to my chest like my mama used to do mine this relationship mine and gods is precious and useful and meaningful to me because we really do talk and we work and he tells me what I need to know but you know God listens to me too and cares about me and helps me to see that I was created to be Who I am today without conviction in my heart of sin I'm not here telling you I want an easy out friends I'm here telling you I've worked on this way and I've worked it through to a blessing so with that in mind I got out my Bible as a student and many many times since then to wrestle with what in the gay community we sometimes call the seven deadlies the seven passages of scripture they're often said to speak to homosexuality really only three of them do only three of them do but we're gonna talk about them all and I'm sure pastor Jennings will catch up with whatever I miss and we're going to talk about some other ones too but the first one you recognized and I want to take the time to read this one Genesis 19 verses 1 through 29 I borrowed brother Dan's King James Version and I'm not a custom I will admit to reading it very much anymore I used the Revised Standard because I'm not very smart and it's clearer to me so if I stumble forgive me on these good old words that we love to hear and there came two angels to Sodom it even but before they lay down the men of the city even the men of Sodom compass to the house round both old and young all the people from every quarter and they called unto lot and said unto Him where are the men which came into thee this night bring them out unto us that we may know them now I'm gonna tell you that's mighty polite language for a word that you hear on the street do you understand where I'm going with that they were going to humiliate these men in the worst way they could think of they were going to strip them naked and they were going to rape them in the street and lot went out at the door unto them and shut the door after him I bet he did and said I pray your brethren do not do so wickedly behold now I have two daughters which have not known a man let me I pray you bring them out unto you and do he to them as is good in your eyes I don't want you to hurt these guys my guests but you can have my daughter's Christians do you hear me for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof I have the power over them and I'll exercise it friends this story is not about homosexuality it's not about homosexuality it has a twin story in judges 19 I would urge you to read it after church it's virtually the same story two strangers call or strangers which comes to the house of a man in Gibeah and he offers them what was required by Jewish law a place to rest in his own house and a feast to eat and they come in and the men of Gibeah come to the door and they say bring these people out and we're going to do to them what they would did in Sodom and he says no take my daughters and this time they take the daughter and they raped her until she died and they threw her body up on the steps of the house and in the next morning the man came out and he took his daughter and he cut her up into 12 pieces and he sent a piece to every one of the tribes of Israel and they mounted up 12 armies to come and destroy Gibeah to wipe it off the map boy they should have this story doesn't have anything to do with the loving relationship that I had with rib not one single solitary thing not one this is about power and rape and horrible evil that doesn't have anything to do with the lives of most of the gay people that you know this just is not about us it's been used against us in fact the laws against us around the country that were finally struck down a year or so ago that said we just couldn't even make love to each other in our own homes without being jailed in some states including my own state of Georgia we're called sodomy laws but friends that's not what this is about what it is about Jesus said in Matthew is in hospitality and he was clear that it was wrong what it is about is how you treat strangers people that are not like you people that you don't understand people that may come from another country that's what it's about and there is judgment here there is judgment here but it's not judgment against me in mind it's judgment against our oppressors who have failed to see the point of this scripture and I have a responsibility to them as one who loves Christ and loves them and cares about their soul not to just take this but to call on them and say friends please stop this is not just hurting me this is hurting your mortal soul now that was the easy one for me to know you let me get one that will be easier for you to hear Leviticus 18:22 this section of the Bible is called the holiness code and what it is is a long list that Moses presumably gave to the people of Israel of things that we as good Jews he would say are not going to do when we get to the promised land some of these things happen over in the promised land but we're not going to do them we're against sex with little girls who were too young to have sex and the men are told here not to do it we're against having sex outside of marriage adultery but it says a lot of other things in this list that we have decided in our wisdom over the years don't matter quite as much to really follow to the letter of the law and some of the things that he said had real value don't do a dollar trust things don't you bow down to an idol that's in the holiness code and then others most of the other things that are listed there are things that they did before an idol to try to convince that old wooden or stone Idol to do something for them he said we don't do that and one of the things that they did in the land to which the Jews were going was they had temple prostitutes some were women some were men and at certain times of the year the men went and had sex with them in front of this Idol it's hard to hear in it can you imagine coming to this holy place that has been made holy by your prayers and God's presence and doing such a thing of course not there were some things worth saying we're not gonna do that and that's what this is about in 1822 and it's also about what's in 2013 that's the second of these two things now let me be clear with you I do not mean to say that the Bible didn't mean to say that homosexual sex was wrong here if Moses wrote this as some believe that is exactly what he meant and I'm owning it in front of you in a worldwide television audience what I'm saying to you is in that Old Testament it also said that it was all right for Solomon to have a thousand wives it said that it was all right for people to do a lot of things men to do with women things that we would know more countenance today than the man in the moon it said that slaves should obey their masters it said a lot of things that thank God God has moved on our hearts over the years and showed us a better way than just sticking with a simple set of rules that aren't that don't fit with what we know with what our experience is of humanity and the love of God that don't fit with what we have learned from science and what we have learned from science in recent years is beginning to fit the experience of gay men and women for ever and that is that homosexuality is as natural for the very few of us for whom it is true as any sexual urge that you have ever felt if you are not getting it is our natural state psychiatrists and psychologists say it and they beg you don't look for an easy out don't look for a simple solution to this one your friends needs are worse than that medical doctors now say almost all of them not all you could find someone who disagree with me you go on the internet you'll find somebody but the great consensus is that this is not a situation that is unnatural for about 5% or so of us in the whole world I thank God that God didn't just leave us with a set of rules because if he had you wouldn't be free to listen to me today and I would not be allowed to come and talk to you I am so glad that women now are fully a part of a life of the church and of the community oh let's don't give that up and I'm calling on you now to listen on our behalf to and to hear what God is saying now God is not finished speaking God is saying a new thing to us I'm not going to tell you that if all you rely on is Leviticus 18:22 for this that you will not ever agree with me I'm not gonna say that to you'll always disagree with me I am saying to you that you and I both deserve to treat each other better than that to say that we're just gonna stick with that code because in fact let me just lay one more on you some of you would have to go home and change clothes an abomination listed in this long list is wearing a jacket or a dress that's made out of two different kinds of material mixing linen and cotton polyester and rayon something else I don't know that much about it listed in the list these are not the first kinds of hard questions about purity and how we're going to act together in the church that the church is experienced the early church wrestled with this do you remember acts 10 do you remember acts 15 please go home and read it see how they wrestled with the question of some in the Jerusalem church said you've got to be circumcised you got to be a good Jew in order to be a good Christian and others Peter among them the father of the Worldwide Church said no it doesn't match my experience I have met Cornelius and he's a Gentile but oh my gosh is he filled with the spirit he is filled with the spirit I have met Cornelius and it doesn't match my experience and it doesn't match the experience I had of that vision where God said take an eat of things like snakes and pigs and things I never thought I'd eat in the world is a good Jew then we come to Romans 1:26 and 27 this is the third passage that actually does address homosexual sexual activity he says there are a lot of people out there that are doing a lot of bad things and he gets a lot of amens when the letter is read for this cause he says God gave them up unto vile affections for even their women did change their natural use into that which is against nature and likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust one toward another men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was me and he goes on and he says and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient being filled with all unrighteousness fornication wickedness covetousness maliciousness full of envy now somewhere along the line he has stopped talking just about homosexual folks here he's on this list of sins that we're all guilty of murder debate deceit malignity whisperers backbiters haters of god despiteful proud boasters inventors of evil things disobedient to parents without understanding covenantbreakers we're all that without natural affection implacable unmerciful who knowing the judgment of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death not only do the same but have pleasure and then that do them then he then comes to the trick everybody's going amen brother pastor hey man brother Paul a man yeah those are bad folks they're bad they are really bad and then he says therefore thou art inexcusable whosoever thou art that judgest for wherein thou judgest another thou condemn estai self for thou that judgest doest the same things paul has given us a message of love he says Christ's law is love and his gospel is peace don't don't stand in judgment of your neighbour don't stand in judgment of your neighbour but friends when some of our political enemies around the country and that's what a lot of these preachers are and I want you to hear that I am NOT talking about this good man please hear me when I say it but there are a lot of people out there who are trying to get for instance black folks in America to start voting Republican and they are selling you a bill of goods by trying to act more holy more pious more against sin than some of their Democratic colleagues they have made this debate about homosexuality a political debate that is hateful and hurtful they are saying things like Harry Knox your new friend who you got to know a little bit today shouldn't be allowed to teach school where will that stop who else do you know in this country that somebody in power decided who could do what work in our history they're saying and I'm not kidding you that labor unions in Pennsylvania should not be allowed to put health insurance for me and my partner into labor contracts they don't want me to be able to go to the doctor and get the help that I need their say and a lot of other things beside and some folks hear what they say and they take it to the extreme and in the name of Jesus Christ my friends the pounding starts again the pounding the beating the cutting they put Matthew Shepard up like Jesus they crucified him on a fence post in Laramie Wyoming they burned Billy Jack Gaither on a big pile of tires in Alabama and they felt justified the boys in Wyoming honestly thought all they had to do was tell the judge that the that Matthew had come on to them in a barroom and that would justify what they did Paul would say therefore thou art inexcusable he'd say don't you stop at verse 26 and 27 he'd say read the whole book of Romans read it friends read it the message is a message of good news but it's a message of good news to all of us that requires all of us to wrestle with how we are both the oppressed and the oppressor it won't be easy but God who is all about truth and love will reward us if we'll do it I thank you again for your attention hope you listen closely at what dr. Harry Knox said I was listening very close and let's go to his script then we both will get a chance to chat sup alright and the book of Genesis in a reference to Sodom and Gomorrah and he dealt with the scripture in Joshua well this incident in Joshua and the incident in Genesis were two different incidents the book of Genesis there was no woman to cut up and sent abroad he said it had nothing to do with homosexuality I totally disagree the reason why I disagree you read when the angels came to men to Lots house I often use a time focus on the language of Scripture focus on the words that is said in Scripture listen closely at the language of the book Genesis chapter 19 and begin at the first verse and there came two angels to Sodom and even and lot sat in the gate of Sodom and lot saying then rose up to meet them and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground and he said behold now my Lords turning I pray you into your servants house and tarry all night and wash your feet and he shall rise up early and go on your ways and they said nay but we will abide in the street all night and he pressed upon them greatly and they turned in unto him and entered into his house and made them a feast and did baked unleavened bread and they did eat but before they lay down the men of the city even the men of Sodom compassed the house round now listen closely the inca passed out because they weren't they autographed no no they didn't compass' the house because they want to play gin rummy not that no listen closely at the language of Scripture but before they lay down the men of the city even the men of Sodom compassed the house round both old and young all the people from every quarter and they called unto lot and said unto Him where are the men where are the men which came into the this night why was bring them out unto I some out to us that we may know them hold it all this and focus on language of Scripture that we may know them know that they want to introduce themselves either no they want to know their name Bible you to term how the man knew the woman right that mean there was a relationship involved Bible says that we may know them move that some may say well does not talk about knowing them sexually listen closely at the language of the scriptures where are the men where all that man which came unto thee this night which came unto thee tonight bring them out unto us that we may know them and lot went out at the door unto them and shut the door afternoon and said I pray you brethren do not so wickedly there's not my sexual behavior why would dress them and doing something wicked know your name and and there were men guessing my house we used to turn that they know them and yet it's be clear what is water right knowing a person's name no other person's job no other person's occupation that's not wickedness to do something wicked you've got to have some intensive mind that violate God's law that contradicts the agenda of God that's right listen closer bring them out unto us that we may know that the door onto them and shut the door afternoon and said I pray you do not so not do not so wickedly wait now what was they going to do that was right we got to find out what is the wickedness about because yep they're about to do wicked is contradicting what's to be done right bring them out unto us that we may know them and lock them out at the door unto them and shut the door afternoon yeah and said I pray you brethren do not so wickedly you're not so weak you hold now I have two daughters which have not known [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] design was until homosexuality it was dealing with it was brought to the table that's right because to me that's around what house would last for that's right they had affection that's right unusual affection that's right effective that contradicts the will of God women why would love all be his daughters if there wasn't no love to be hope now I have two dogs which have not known main now we make an example you coveted someone house take it over Tico it [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] so to say sex was not on the agenda it's incorrect Richard what would not respond to men who just want to meet men don't do wicked meet one another we cool with that that's right someone coming for different gentlemen different purpose and has made known their one have a right to respond don't do wicked that's right listen closely and said not so wickedly focus for the language of the Scriptures amen you're not so we behold now I have two daughters which not known main let me I pray you bring them out unto you and do ye to them as is good in your eyes [Applause] that's right the sixth abyss what's on a table say is I love [Music] polycation amen - amen they're right way to fornicate and the wrong way the party the way is wrong this'll man that's hot and wife to commit fornication you broke it the right way come on say no such thing to do long write that listen you smoke a cigarette you that's foolish enough to do it you is wrong to stop to scribble says cleanse yourself of all filthiness of the flesh now to smoke the cigarette wrong you try to pop the in that leap but above all smoke it right and get cancer right the part that I'm doing wrong the wrong way let's allow the agenda of the minister Albert's house Freeman they were lustful old and young wicked men that's right they this was to lay with the two men in the house lot comes out shut the door behind them and encourage them by just them as brothers what do you mean your man you should not be surrounding my house warning men so he addressed them as brothers and said do not so so wickedly now the desire was addressed as wicked before any actor place which established the fact same-sex desire is wrong before any take place see closely I look see I love the detail this man or it's a kind of detail fine stitch it that way you don't fall out of the book that's right listen and said I pray brethren do not so wicked my brave brother and do not so wickedly behold now I have two daughters which have not known man let me I pray you bring them out unto you and why offer them women if sex was not on the table they didn't want the women is so in asking the big cakes no it was no one bait no greens or yeah it was a turkey no no sex was all their gender women listen I pray you greet them out unto you and do you to them as is good in your eyes you do to them to them what's good in your eyes only unto these men only on two of these men do nothing that's what I'm saying that's right what I say nevermind what the Republicans trying to do no I'm not a Democrat or Republican I don't give two cents about bushel care [Music] we're not saying to go out kill and bash in the Mingo gay people know there are members of the human family this subject is playing is it God will is it God's will not bus not carry not the white house not England Africans were not white not black red I don't give two sets of you color we ought to know is it God's will now ain't God talk everything got to say this is a subject training sir is it God's will man to marry men have intercourse with me God always make his will gone through the teaching of the products right and God make his will gone to the decisions of the Apostle to descriptors scripture is the blueprints and a guideline for God people if we just believe the scripture we know about the law of Moses and we know that there were many things under the law that was unprofitable for us today sure we'll get to that then we'll let you know what was in the law still came over here today the teaching of Jesus because when you hear the Apostles you hear Jesus said to his teachers as to experience the Apostles in Luke 10 16 he then here at you he was listed to Jesus behold now I have two daughters which have not known man yeah let me I pray you bring them out unto you and duty to them as is good in your eyes only on to these men do nothing man do nothing well therefore came they under the shadow of my group and they said stand back and they said again this one fellow came into so journey and he will need to be a judge now will we deal worse with thee than with them and they press sore upon the man even law they press saw upon the man even live and came near to break the door and it wasn't he mentions the book of Judges how they cut up the woman but they was impressing on the door to get women know so what he was confirmed reference to in judges in this totally two different incidents totally opposite is day and night that's right it wasn't pressing all that was offered and they press sore upon the man even lunch came near to break the door but the men put forth their hand and pulled lot into the house to them yeah shut to the door and they smoked the men that were at the door of the house with blindness both small and great yeah so that they wearied themselves to find the door to find the door and the men set out a lot hostile here any besides son-in-law and thy sons and our daughters yeah whatsoever thou hast in the city bring them out of this place but we will destroy this place because the cry of them is waxing green before the face of the law and the Lord had sent us to destroy [Applause] why do you feel as though that this wasn't dealing with homosexuality well professor is clear that that there is tremendous sin going on here no question about it and that it is about sex and it is about dishonouring people through sexual activity that is so clear there's no way to read the passage and not hear that but what it is not about is a loving relationship between two people who God has for whatever reason and genetics may be involved whatever may we don't know what causes this to happen to people like me but I can tell you what I feel for my partner is not a desire to humiliate him in the public street that's what that story is about so you're saying it's alright to have same-sex relationship when you're married or yes I believe that there should be commitment and and you know my community really needs to wrestle with this nobody you will never hear me say that we should be indiscriminately casting around sexual favors because every time you do you give something away that you don't get back all right it's valuable and precious God intensifies so you say that God your desire towards your male friend it's the will of God there I believe it is alright let's balance it out with the scriptures and see who did God intend for desire to be when it comes to marriage man to man the see when that law was established whether his eyes should be listen in Genesis chapter 3 and verse 16 listen unto the woman seen until on to the woman be said unto the lips this dialogue is it God's will and for us to agree whether a thing is God's will or not you must agree we must be able to deal with the Scriptures right sure and so the only thing that will justify you today certainly would be descriptors yeah let me let me back that up yeah let me let me back that up a step I believe that God has given us and this is what Paul says in Romans throughout the book not just in one you know chapter one one verse that we might lift up yeah but throughout the book Paul says we have the gift of the Spirit for discernment not everything has been covered you know not everything is in the book that we're ever going to confront it was written by people who were slave owners or the friends of slave owners and so you get a bias in the book that the rest of the story the story of the coming out of the people of Israel flies in the face of and you have to balance those things you have to ask the spirit all right I got two competing things here I have some things that say it's all right to hold slaves and slaves should obey their masters and some things over here that clearly show that God is on the side of the oppressed and doesn't want people to be in slavery and at that point when the book is not so crystal clear one has to listen to the spirit and I think that's more important than jumping from text to text and saying you know this is what the law and we asked to listen to the spirit how do we hear the spirit we certainly hear it through study and prayer but also in the congregation the Spirit of God bring us anything that contradicts was written why would God bring us something to contradict was written was written and then send prophets and apostles they tell us to believe was written well this this gets brother pastor to a to a place where I think you and I simply will disagree because it's a different approach to the text to the to the whole of the Bible no I don't believe that God would that the spirit would would contradict the word my point is that the whole word has to be embraced that we cannot take you know what amount to three you know horses or even if you did seven and say you know this is the last word about homosexuality in the Bible it's not there's so much more Jesus for instance say about in Matthew and I wish I was as good as you all at remembering text and verse I'm a little distance Adam was in hospitality he's very clear as a little short verse and and that to me counters whatever else we might say about the verse because my Lord said that so of course I hear that with a different power than I do my own experience but it is clear that that that's the issue Jesus was saying that the problem Sodom and Gomorrah was there wasn't showing hospitality and and not just that I mean the word is so often in the Bible you know the word know the word know and about as you say reaching out shaking hands it's it's a a cover word it's a polite word but but what Jesus says is the people of Sodom were so mean and so disrespectful they deserve to be destroyed well and and that I think is the issue well I agree they were mean they weren't disrespectful but did they not manifest they mean this and in disrespectfulness in not being hospitable by surrounding the house of one of those men wasn't that mean it is respectful it was mean and disrespectful but but let me put it more more clearly but but delicately I don't want to be vulgar you drew a good word a wonderful word picture you know if you came in asking for pot and you got offered crack you know the point was the pot I get that but if a man in the street is cut off by another man in a in an automobile and he uses the F word he says fu yeah he doesn't mean I would like to go and have consensual loving sex with you already doesn't mean the the point is the disrespect the point is the hurtfulness you know the point is I want to do two things one is to to have power over you I wish I could have made you not do that you know I feel powerless and so I'm gonna say I want power over you and and pushing a man down and penetrating him makes him power less in a significant way if it's if it's a matter of rape now if it's a rape and the other thing is I want you to have a female role because still in our world in spite of all of God's work and the spirits work with us we value women less than men we're working on it but we're not there yet and and that anger is manifested in not only I want power over you I want to push you down but then I'm gonna make you act like a girl I'm gonna do the things that I can think of the hardest for you to take so that if we forced that upon him that's wrong absolutely so if a man consent to do it without force it's right it's a completely different thing is it right it is it is in my mind sure okay as as it is when when a woman consents to be penetrated by a man in the sexual act a statement you say in your mind would you agree that God at the best mind by do we plan God plan but God is the greatest of planners would you not agree I agree all right then let's go by the scriptures because see if you say you're a Christian that means you're quite like me I want to be I work at it every day and that mean you've got to take whatever Christ said is that right it does water Brandon Webb you like now you're accustomed to being under these hot lights I'm not now you're accustomed to being on the spot and I'm not well well basically lower if you go my my my my sole entrance is because listen viewers and brothers and sisters this is a message that he's sending to the public basically that is all right for men to have sex with men if they are married I can accept that or one time if God said how can you be a Christian preacher representing Christ representing the Bible representing the church that the Apostles were in and preach marriage or the justification of physical relation in a manner that none of the prophets nor Jesus nobody Apostles said it's all right to do it really is easy for me to answer brother pastor all right the people who asked the questions get the answers to the questions they asked and gay people have never been the powerful people in history never and so the conversations that are recorded between Jesus and those who ask questions of him or to whom he was teaching are between people who were regarded as heterosexual the assumption was that they were as it is in most conversations when I go into a conversation everyone assumes that I'm a non gay that I'm heterosexual until they learn to the contrary that's the nature of our culture and it is simply not responsible for us to look for that conversation to be had in the Bible when there's no one to speak up for the powerless for the same reason that women are disrespected ly so much of the Bible because they were powerless the conversations in the Bible about them were among men but how can you compare women to two men being married I was totally different how do you mean well if I sleep with my wife I'm complying with the law of God in the book of Genesis this read whether the Lord said the desire of the woman should be in Genesis chapter 3 and verse 16 listen to the woman he said I will multiply thy sorrow and thy conception yeah in sorrow thou shalt bring forth to and sorrow thou shalt bring forth children and thy desire your desire shall be shall be to thy husband this was established in the beginnings where the desire should be between two people in a marriage that's right you say that you are justified by having your desire you're married I presume come not not partnered at all your your partner not married I do not have a part you don't have a part but if you get married fellow man a man or woman I would marry a man you would marry a man yes I represent Christ the same time absolutely now because there's nothing new Under the Sun you must admit that your teaching and your deeds can't contradict the scripture how can we just come up with something that's not scriptural again brother pastor it's it's easy for you it is it's easier than it's ever been for me and it's because and again it's just it's a completely different approach to the to the scriptures that comes out of our experience of being called by God to be in ministry or to be in lay service in the church and fully experiencing the love of God in every aspect of our lives understanding the concept and the reality of God convicting of sin now I've been convicted of some sins in my life and I've had to change some things but not that but not that one you're not convicted of that I'm not I again I you know Mike's entire experience is saying to God I love you more than I love this sexual thing I love you God so I want to serve you have estranged me you don't feel as though you break in God commandment it's inform me it is as beautiful and fulfilling and completing as I hope it is for you and your wife for me with all due respect as a pastor you don't know with all due respect you don't know going to the Bible according to this Bible what good is you coming up here with the Bible and don't believe what's in there oh I believe it you believe I believe it but I'm again I believe all of it and and I have read all of it and studied as much of it as I could could study with with help from other people because the message of the Bible is one of love from our God more than anything else and you have sex with men that's showing the love of God well let me let me get through what I'm saying yeah love from God is the point reconciliation to God first and then to each other is the point of the whole book the entirety of the book of course you'll be able to find a scripture here in the scripture there to prick me with and you won't do it out of out of lack of concern for me you do it out of Christian love for me you want to help me get to a different place that you think is better and I value that but I read the whole book and in light of my own experience and the experience of thousands and thousands and millions of other gay Christians around the world who say everything about this book tells me that I'm loved of God and that I can be empowered to love my neighbor as effectively as I love myself to reach out in mutuality and concern and care for each other I can do that as the book tells the gay community that their deeds are godly when a man lay with the man those anywhere in the book tell a gay man your deeds in that act is godly I simply think it's unrealistic to expect folks who didn't understand anything about homosexual orientation in the pre-christian time and in the first and second centuries understand they didn't understand what we know now so the gay community have a better understanding than the promise in the apostle's we are wrestling with the reality of our lives in light of the gospel and and finding ourselves blessed and and empowered and encouraged and loved by God the scripture says this whatsoever things were written aforetime is written for our learning that we through pages and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope so if God intended and wanted men to marry men it would have been written so we can learn it's right [Applause] now how can you make it special for self dono and say that you are justified in lay with a man when you're married how is that act scripture scripturally justified because see we got a God is involved in here because just to say that it's justifiable for men to live with men if you matter would you convey that message if you've got two sixteen-year-old boys somewhere and the government will permit them to marry whoever there you were encouraged to young boy the two young men have sex with one another I would not encourage people who are too young to have responsible sex to have sex with each other all right so what a sixteen-year-old way with the man I don't know when you know 18 works for the for the consensus of the country so that people should be able to make decisions about whom they would partner with regardless of what Bible said breath pastor in light of all that the Bible says you know it no no not not you are telling the people in the spider what the Bible said wherever you feel go forward no no no I'm not what I am saying to you and everyone else who listen is the Bible encourages us not encourages but commands us to love God first right and other people as ourselves right now if I love a potential partner as I love myself I would do nothing to dishonor him or hurt him or make him less than human if if and and all that I do with him should be done in the light of my mutual love for him and my love for God just as I hope all of you do in in heterosexual relationships and and to say otherwise you know that is sin all right let me hold you on one statement you made that will you be with them you will you don't do anything to dishonor him that's correct right let us compare your statement with the book let's see where he's with the man is he dishonouring him even he's being nice that's right even when he's been consensual either when he agreed he meant let's see is that the act of dishonor romans chapter 1 and at verse 24 listen wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness wherefore God gave them up to one minute up to verse 22 and verse 22 you see I just believe all the book and if we don't believe what's in the book this is purpose of you know you go to church as preachers you know they claim they got Bibles up on the podium you never believe what's in there is no need to have it up there listen closely Roberts rather Romans chapter 1 and verse 22 professing themselves to be wise they became fools and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man yea and the birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things wherefore God also gave them up to what to uncleanness now by the expansion and act as unclean all right wherefore God also build them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own heart that loves the desires of they all wants their heart to dishonour to dishonour their own but now all body between themselves we them sell to change the truth of God into a lie only the truth is the water was if you change it you're making man for man woman for woman this witness said they seek to change the truth of God of God into a lie into a lab listen to dishonour their own bodies between themselves who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the as a result of that what the God said for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections that foul affectionate God is speaking up for even their women did change the natural use into that we told it what is the natural use the natural use for the woman is what the man man it's tough to deal with changing natural use for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature do you believe that that if the man love of the man or woman with the woman it's a gate nature I do not believe it so this is a lot that is not true who changed the truth of God into a lot what are you doing because I don't believe that the Apostle Paul had any concept any concept Oh Paul had any concept stop let me tell you one thing first and foremost I'm not I'm not a doctor of ministry or a PhD I don't know where we decided I was knocking knocks I appreciate the honor but it's not do me I didn't know about just good old Harry [Applause] Paul did not have any idea of the the kind of love that I feel for a partner when I am partnered he didn't he didn't know what that was about now it you know it's easy for you to laugh it off because for you it seems most natural it is for you natural oh wait no no no come on misinterpret what I'm laughing about well I don't take it personally I don't I don't hear you laughing at me but but let me say this by the way you consider it unnatural because it's not natural for you oh the straight man the heterosexual man who got the privilege of writing the book the educated rich heterosexual man Paul who got to write the book didn't think it was natural because for him it must not have been so you see your bone is all I'm telling you for me it is natural and when that when those two things disagree when my experience not outside of the love of God but inside the love of God and constant companionship with God constant talking with God about it begging God to make it different if it's wrong God everybody else says it is and I don't want to do this change me not being changed not even being changed a little but in fact being embraced by the love that says I made you this way and he's alright to do and it not only all right yes God's will for me to lay with a man if he and I love each other and care for each other and are committed to each other now now I have to say I wish I could say I wish it were as easy as turning to my book in the Bible that was written by one of my people you know that was that was written to really address this issue I wish it were that is you saying it Paul just closed my knitting yes they have no understanding about gauges at all I told this agree because the book says this give me the book of Romans let's see how the scriptures come about the book tells us in fact it lets us know we're gonna go to Romans then we gonna go to Peter that all Scripture oh but all scripture are given by the inspiration of God and it's all listen in 2nd Timothy chapter 3 second Timothy chapter 3 verse 16 and verse 16 all scripture how much all Scripture all Scripture how they come about is given by inspiration of God they didn't talk about a bunch of rich men a bunch of Mel showiness men all heterosexual that was irrelevant that's right it says all scripted are given by the inspiration of God and when we use the inspired scripture what do we formulate and it's profitable for doctrine description your doctor would be right for reproof your reproof will be correct for correction what for correction what's right that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished unto all good works so Paul didn't write it on his own you can't say that Paul wrote alone alone he was divinely inspired knowing this verse the Bible said no in this 1st 2nd Peter chapter 1 and verse 20 listen knowing this first how it's the first thing that God wants you to know knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture no prophecy no prophecy nothing written in the scriptures is of any private interpretation now what pastor the last thing that I would say about Paul was that he was not inspired by God and a man of God and that the words that he wrote were put down for our use and edification not our use on our own behalf but for God's use in telling us how to live our lives so you're not agree about that now let me have my turn there are so many scriptures in the Bible that are contradictory to other things in the Bible or for which we feel we are beyond which we feel we have grown in our understanding of a simplistic interpretation let me ask you if you're going to condemn my folks to hell now this is serious business it's not just you and I disagree about a political topic or something like that you and I understand that the stakes are the highest if you're gonna tell me that my people are going to hell based on these things which again I gave other information about that is not as simplistic as how you've laid it out no I want to ask you because it because because it's important to remember okay what do you say about a scripture that says slaves obey your masters it's simple it's to the point it's clear what what do you say about something like that let me give you some other examples I don't want you I'm sure you got an answer to that one but let me give you some others I'm sure now let me give you some others what do you say to the holiness code when it says don't eat lobsters and shrimp it's an abomination what do you say to the holiness code when it says don't have sex with your wife who you love when she's menstruating it's an abomination what do you say okay got all of those things you I believe I don't want to pitch them at you it by way of embarrassing you or making you lose a point in this debate I know but but but what I say to you about that is this why I say it is this you I believe you have to hear all of those texts in light of everything else isn't that's in the book that's in the Bible all of the messages of God standing on the on the side of people who are misunderstood or powerless or strangers all of the things that that that the Bible says about Jesus decisions to eat with people who were sinners and and not to justify their sin I don't say that but you know to say to people come and be with me I know you're not understood by everybody else but I understand you what all of that has to be a part of the mix the love of God they're not just the condemnation of sin God will convict us if if if we're wrong God will convict us in our hearts the other piece that for me is a proof not just what's in the text no I don't and I and you and I probably disagree about justify so I I justify things that I believe in through four different things what the Scriptures are first always the tradition of the church what we have learned from being the body of Christ together for many many centuries my experience my experience I believe is a gift of God to me and to all of us and God says that it is and the reason that God has given me the the ability to reason and think things through all four of those things from my tradition the Wesleyan tradition the United Methodist tradition in which I grew up have value not equal not equal the Scriptures are more important the spirit is more important than experience or reason but all of those things are important and it's just not kind finally for people who's oh I'm not if you're saying the script is more important more important things that you just mentioned then why do you diminish the importance of the strip I don't do - and you don't believe oh I don't I don't say that what I'm saying is when I studied Romans I didn't stop with 1:26 and 27 we Michael stop I went through the whole thing yeah when I studied Leviticus 18:22 I studied the whole holiness code and what I learned about it was God calls us to be special and chosen to be to live differently from the people who are not believers know by us I mean believers all of us who are Christians so a questions for that lived a life like rice as much as we can sure so if we won't strive to live like Christ was Christ gay Christ was not married Christ you know Christ as far as I can tell him the Scriptures never had sex with anyone the scripture said the descriptive teach that Christ will marry the church it does it's the church called life yes by authors again understood a male-dominated society with which I don't think the Bible what I do request Miriam we can do it that the Scriptures talk about how Christ will present them to himself a glorious church and it compared the presentation of the church to Christ and compared to the presentation of Eve to Adam does it not take us so if it was God well for men to sleep with men for the Christian community that are looking to the gay community that are listening and watching all we're accent is if if it's God will and if it's justify about heaven because there is no greater justification the work comes from heaven try me then let us go to the scriptures see where do God justifies us you keep telling me that this is I feel as though I feel as though give me the prophet Isaiah I want to compare his feelings with God fills I want to compare his thoughts with God thoughts amen I want to see does God feel about things the way he does let's listen to what God said God Almighty said my thoughts are not your thoughts are not or not Isaiah chapter 50 behind Isaiah chapter 55 and we'll begin in verse 7 let the wicked forsake his way the wicked leave his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts you referring to your thoughts in Sande you think that you're justified to do this and the Lord said forsake your thoughts that's right listen and let him return unto the Lord go to the Lord and He will have mercy upon him he'll be merciful nd and to our God for he will abundantly pardon for my thoughts are not your thoughts don't think like you do let me let me give you Jesus word on this in in Luke 12 the Pharisees come at him with this kind of an argument okay they're going to try to trick him they're gonna try to trip him up and he tells him a parable and then finally in frustration it's clear from the way that the text is written he looks at him and says why don't you just judge for yourself what is right that's what Jesus says and what he means by that is not based on your own desires of course but he says I've been telling you the truth I've been telling you the truth and of course you're gonna find a way to trip somebody up so you say what Jesus said and I'm trying to find a way to tip you but what you're saying I believe anybody who would watch from my of this program from my perspective would think you're trying to trip me up I'm running to the scripture to justify what I'm saying I am NOT saying to you that I feel it at all defensive about this I don't feel afraid or worried about all or any of this I serve a Christ who is alive who is alive everything Christ intends to say Christ has not yet said I don't believe it I see the evidence I see the evidence in the early church let me go to the Bible let me take my little proof text I go to acts 10 I go to acts 15 and people there have this kind of conversation with each other and and the Jewish Christians the Jerusalem Christians say it's clear in the book it's clear in the book you must be circumcised you must be you cannot eat all of these certain kinds of foods it's clear in the book and they do this kind of conversation and Peter stands up and he says friends it just doesn't match with my experience of Cornelius and Paul and Barnabas come down from Antioch and and Cilicia and they say it doesn't match with our experience they're the Gentiles are filled with the Holy Spirit you can't believe the work that's going on there and they're so excited about it that the Jerusalem church picks up a delegate and they send them off to Silesia in Syria and Antioch to see the great things that are happening now for the pastor jesus says why don't you decide for yourself we've given you all of this teaching all of it now you're going to be better than I am at find in another text another text another text you are I'm telling you what's the job who the minister isn't the job of the ministers appointed people to descriptions he didn't sit an eye on a job to get up and give opinions and personal views how he feel as though what should be what shouldn't be if we say we're ministers of Christ it is our job to take the people to the scriptures so they can believe it is but it's also our job it is also clearly our job to invite the Holy Spirit into them into the mix into the conversation well if I'm in the street and I'm dealing with the Holy Spirit Jesus said the words that I speak are they all spirit of their heart but you but I you and I simply disagree if you believe that the spirit stopped speaking when the Roman Church decided in the fourth century that this was the book we were going to have God did not say I don't know God did not stop speaking to us though God in the tradition of the church said to us this is enough now it's not everything it's not every single word it does it says there's all that you need here that's how I hear the text that you had all right everything you need is here but it's not going to say we prescribe these things for every issue I've got a prescription for every single thing that's going to come up what it says is and Jesus in His great promise as he's ready to ascend says I'm not going to leave you comfortless I'm not gonna leave you to your own devices and I'm not gonna leave you just with what you've got by way of Scripture to lean back on because if people he was talking to didn't even have the scriptures at that time Holy Spirit the comforter and he said look it's here I am not yet I here are the spirit and I'm telling you brother pastor yeah I hear the love that you have for gay people in your call to repentance I hear it I feel it you and I've talked before today I wouldn't be here if I wasn't confident in your concern for all of us I wouldn't be here I simply wouldn't have dignified the meeting with my with my presence you know but Jesus has been talking to us and we're bringing you a message like Paul brought like Peter brought to the read to us what Jesus is telling y'all Paul and Peter to listen to what I'm saying Paul and Peter didn't have a text to read either well they said they said oh yeah this grades are already written so Jesus is talking to you and to say all of them didn't have a text yes they did they had the prophets they did they had the proper said it was written they'd never you say Jesus just talking to you now then please show the world where Jesus is talking to you from he's talking to me from the entirety of the book that pastor are they entirely in the book he say anything to you that it was alright for you to lay with the man somewhere in the book Ben he's talking to you from the entirety of the book doesn't show me one little section of the book and let Jesus talk I'm saying to you brother pastor the pastor I do not I cannot point to a place in the book and I would not presume to tell you that I could how can you just talk about God so loosely and then say that it is justified in God eyes how can you say that about God in series God's not a man run we can't deal with them like he is a man that's right so how do you just say well God is pleased with me how do you know the Bible said prove all things that's right and the soup is called this infallible through proof so you just can't off the wall and say well this all right with God how do we know yeah this pastor my soul is at stake and I have staked my soul on this on what I'm about to say to you all right I've read the whole book understand is what thou readest I have read the whole book I have sought understanding I haven't stopped with just the English translation I haven't stopped with just what my my one pastor said I read enough of it to make it work Greek justified what Greek what Greek says to me is that the places in the book that that are used against us are not as clear as a lot of people want to make them out to be now I said in the Leviticus code it's clear but it was a matter of purity for the Jews for which we simply don't ask people we are about which we don't ask people to live up anymore to which we don't ask people to live up anymore to all of those that long list of things well but you're dealing with the thing that applies to me and not to you now you know pastor Jennings I've got to come back and say we have to hear this in community this message has to be heard in community with our brothers and sisters the message is going to come from the book we're from the whole book Wow I don't well we must be we must be honest Security's Ratliff let's back up I am NOT saying to you that non-gay people that heterosexual people who didn't have an understanding of what homosexual orientation is or is about sat down and included us in the book they simply did not you're not in the book the book not not in not specifically no not specifically as no by that I mean to justify sexual activity between men I'm not going to say that it's there what I'm saying to you is there are more overriding principles in the book that we use for every other topic Under the Sun except this one the church is holding gay people to a higher standard a different stand it is lots of other issues are you being held to a different standard the standard of God was woman made for the man right that was God standing you trying to produce in a whole a different standard I'm trying to just do with the standard that God have already accepted you and your community is trying to bring about in fact Paul said to change that which is it gets make you try to change it's God's will then it should be repeated oh it's well it should be alright for you to do it if it's natural for you to do it if it is well your orientation natural wouldn't wouldn't God have allowed not mean in the book to do such a act because you must admit everywhere in the book where the act is done God wants to destroy them God is against it God sent the prophets or an apostle or a messenger to speak out against it okay we're in the all right I'll take you one minute you just don't want to deal with the Bible let's do it other books right you familiar with the Quran I'm not alright well the Jews used to Old Testament the Torah would you for me with that is it anyway in the Torah or as the many Christians said today the Gospels where it is God well where you are justified by heaven and where you will be saved for marrying a man and we're sleeping with the man I again brother pastor we simply disagree about the abomination Paul said if you're going to live by the jot and tittle of the law you're going to miss the point God's law is love and if you say to someone who is as constitutionally homosexual as you are constitutionally heterosexual Harry you simply can't do it because I can't find you anywhere in the book and I can find a couple of places where non-gay people made the rules interpreted the will of God and they wrote something down in here and if I know it's not really about you Harry you know I I don't dispute that the impurity comes from having done these acts in front of idols in the Old Testament those texts are about horrible vile things that were done in front of idols they don't have any reference and this is what I mean when I say they don't mean homosexuality they don't have any reference to a loving mutually consensual relationship that's not addressed in the book that is not condemned in the book well okay but let me let me finish that we do disagree about this it's like to show you otherwise now you talk about a loving mutual relationship a justifiable relationship the only justifiable relationship in the Scriptures the scriptures brandy Salem ask yourself was a man made for the man in my in my experience there were some who will write from an expense for then anything yes are you willing to die for I have been close to it alright now let's eliminate your mind and mama the mind of God did God make man for man or did he created the woman for the man pastor you shot your shouting at me now you're shouting at me and I'm telling you get all Christian love in all Christian love and in all respect for the text I know something that the people who wrote the text simply didn't know now now it doesn't you know I understand you don't know that's right you do putting them on one topic that is true for me and for millions of the likes others lies deep within the prophecy i we simply have we simply have a different we have a different knowledge come back and we listen brother have just referred to the mind of God amen I actually thank God make man for the man or the guard me woman for the man living a personal feeling I feel as though let's eliminate my feelings in yours I simply think that's a false choice pastor a false choice it's a lot come on it's a false choice making Michelle here's why you are asking me you are asking me if according to the book if you're cording to the book if that was my only source of information his man made for a woman you got a sauce I would say yes I thought I say to you that God has given us all to gifts that we that we dare not throw back at God who gives the Holy Spirit and our own experience and reason now are they more important than what's in the book no then why if you bring them up because they are as important as is in the book that's best the book and this is important it stands the book speaks to them both it is an entirety of relationship with God that I call my Christians brother my brothers and sisters to experience an entire experience with God that's not about a list of rules a list of rules but a list of guidelines that are given to us in love with the help of the teacher offered us every day every day the teacher the teacher Christ Jesus way through the spirit Buddha spirit he's going to teach us through the text and the spirit and our experience what a spirit are easy to any direction that contradicts Scripture if I believed that it contradicted scripture in its entirety brother pastor I would still be on my knees about this thing you made him begging for forgiveness the Holy Spirit would lead us to go against scripture in any form I don't I simply don't believe that what I do does that even though the scripture plainly states that let a man a father and mother and cleave to his life can a man be a wife no so if a man cannot be a wife but the man cannot be a wife when two men getting married this husband and husband bring it up at our Tower [Applause] in our experience in the gay community we we wrestle with language all the time okay and we don't often use hut we don't always use husband and husband or wife and wife some of us do some of us don't others believe the word partner to be better because we understand that this is not about domination of one person over another and that is the source of the word husband for instance there's a lot involved in this too husband is to care for and to own and to protect and to do all of those things but that's not our view of what the where the Bible talks about what marriage ought to look like what relationship want to look like we believe now that again in the entirety of the book and in the entirety of our experience and in all that we have learned women should not be subject to men exclusively to men and you're asking me about a definition of marriage and wife and you said as a man can a man be a wife and I would say to you I don't want to be another man's wife and I don't want a wife I want a mutual partner if the word wife is about subjugation being beneath and being a servant I'm just not looking for that in a relationship there's marriage sanctioned by God I believe that it is all marriage is sanctioned by God as opposed to what if it's a marriage contradicts this principle or scriptural law would you say is sanctioned by God well again I just think it's a circuitous argument of course I don't believe the Scriptures I believe them I believe all of them I listen to all of them and I hear with equal Authority with equal Authority okay so a scripture that says let no man call unclean what God calls clean God ever call you I'm telling you he has told me so in my experience and in the experience of millions of other Christian believers who are home aside your minutes over you the only person is build another god hole what you do is clean well I don't know the hearts and minds and the experience tell it was clean God told you it was clean sir he told you that if what Harry knew if you live with the man is to clean okay let's see what the Bible says proverbs chapter 16 and at verse 2 what is all the ways of a man was our clean in his own eyes the spirits that's the problem say say the last thing and I honestly the law ways with that's right now if we had the same spirit of faith do you feel as though you had the same spirit as the brothers and sisters had in the scriptures Spirit of God what is clear about that text is that they came to insult and humiliate those people through sex in public and through humiliating rape when they when all of the men of a city show up at the door and say send these two guys out we want to have sex with them they're not talking about my love for another human being in mutuality and concern and care so let me finish many things here what they're saying they're saying all of us are going to take a turn men on this side most of you men in the in the choir hairy's the visitor god forbid yes but somebody was some some person they believed to be a human being now he wasn't angel but they believed to be a human being they're gonna put me down here and first Dan's gonna take his turn and then this man and then that man and then that man and then that man and then that one and then that one and then that way now [Applause] sorry to have to sorry to have to call it out but you need the word picture the word picture is not about consensual loving sex it is about gang rape alright it is about the kind of thing that that are conquering armies do it's consensual even if it's consensual is it justifiable by God and I'm saying to you pastor in all love if you're asking me is it justified in the book explicitly I have already said over and over again no is it in northern affection I don't believe it is now it's normal it is normal affection for me and for about 5% of the people in the world not many but I believe it's a gift from God it certainly has been so families it has been my experience from God jesus said believeth on him as to what basically you gave us a painting your personal pain your personal views your personal ideas we believe was written often tell viewers if the minister is going to stand before you and talk to you about Jesus talk to you about heaven talk about God and ship you to refer you to what is written right if you're not gonna have the Bible in your church just take your Bible and pull out of your church that's right now uuuuu Minister the people I do not in an official capacity but is there's been my task to do so through the years you used about it yes why because it is normative for us all it is the Word of God it's the only thing we have to reveal God to us and it's powerful okay it's the Word of God yet you keep telling me what your beliefs are contradicts the Word of God when I'm saying to you brother pastor man now I'm gonna say it one more time and then let's let's don't go over this again because we I think we're just wearing it out we simply disagree and and it's all right what I reject about how you are characterizing my belief and I need to be clear about this is that I don't believe in the Bible and that I don't value it over everything else that we have as a source for wisdom and and and discernment I simply do and you can't say whether I do or don't know what he's talking about I didn't say that well I'd hang on let me back up I said Paul didn't know about me and people like me when he wrote about that thing it was as far to say what he said I believe that it has value for us but I believe that the whole book of Romans says we should be listening to the spirit we should not be listening to our own biases this is what you're doing we should not be listening to our believe it you said absolutely not I don't believe that Paul understood anything about Paul don't understand he did not understand have any concept about a loving mutual relationship between two men any more than you or any of the of the heterosexual men in this audience could say that you could sit down and write about that also no was it God talking to Paul I believe that God spoke through Paul in the entirety of the message of the book so if God spoke through Paul it was God that said they try to change the knife you use I believe Paul was I believe Paul has referenced there too idolatrous idolatry idolatrous things in addition to - trying to get people to see something as unclean and impure by the Jewish law and it was again I haven't disputed that I've simply said I have simply said there according to the Jewish law it was and according to Paul's understanding at the time it was and I am saying that the Scriptures lead me to understand that my Lord who is alive in my life today Jesus who is in my life today in guiding me it's also speaking as he spoke to people in the New Testament church a new thing they knew that a new thing and I'm old to do it because remember what you just said the Lord is speaking to you a new thing let's see you pouring to what the Lord said he said undo thing in Ecclesiastes chapter 1 and we'll begin at verse 9 the thing that has been it is that which is that which shall be and that which is done so if you see the problems in the epochal didn't understand all my shaky out almost a job is incorrect because I said the thing that has been what is that which shall visit you came later which lets you know that the way men thought today they thought yesterday that's right so it has been and that which is done that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the Sun [Music] we're babysitting see this is new baby saying that it maybe says see this is new this is new you can't come and say Jesus's give me something new to you and I submit to you again in all in all humility and in love these were the scriptures that Paul had available to him Ecclesiastes these were the scriptures Paul had available to him when he said to the church at Jerusalem there's a new thing there's a new thing he said I know what the scriptures say behind us he would say in other places I know them better than any of you you know he claimed that for himself he said I have been in and I've studied he had the benefit of Education when so many of his readers did not and he studied the scriptures and he said there is a new thing where these Gentiles ought to be able to to be a part of the church in the same way that we Jews who have heard the good news should be and it sounded to those Jewish Christians as as strange and as as weird and as unnatural as what I'm saying to you but Paul said the Spirit of God is speaking to us and he's not found just in the dry text of the law if the law is not filled with the spirit and that spirit a spirit of love in Christ Jesus you're going to go astray the law will trip you up sitting the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us as much as we can do it and it is our task to seek that in prayer and and and supplication and time before God and what a time with the spirit and they're always and always in dialogue with the spirit and and brother pastor there's just not anything else for me to say about that today we have a different view I honor yours yours is I think simply scriptural oh the pen name mine involves not just opinion but the reason that God gave me the experience God has given me and not just experience that is selfish but experience in in community with so many others both gay and non-gay who are also coming to this same understanding by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in dialog with the Scriptures always always and listening clearly clearly to Christ I have in Christ to tell us very the same way you do brother pastor I get down on my knees after I have studied I study routinely I get down on my knees at least figuratively not always literally sometimes literally and I sit in the presence of God and I ask the questions that I need to ask I listened in silence trying to hear what God wants to say also I worship in a community that wrestles with hard questions and I listen to my pastor who shares wonderful insights to me challenging insights insights that say to me lately Harry you're not given enough money fundamentally important fundamentally important question you're not husbanding the gifts that God has given you effectively I was convicted a few weeks ago under her preaching then that I wasn't giving enough that I had not trusted God with caring for me but you were not convicted about sleeping with the man yeah but I was not and what I'm saying to you Pastor what I'm saying to you is convicted when he tell me he was not convicted I can go to the Bible and find that you know my goat or you can fight well and if you want to keep doing it we can keep going through the pan but to say you're a Christian and don't do it the Bible well good night no need to go to church well it makes it it makes a kind of sense but it doesn't make full sense no it doesn't it doesn't match the relationship the relationship that I have with God and with my fellow Christians that allows me to disagree with you and to agree with some to disagree with some of those same folks about other things and agree with you about some things and and not feel fully embraced by the love of Christ so you saying a man can be christ-like you can be like right well strive to be like Christ and still see what the man it is my conviction meaning that I don't understand that it is my experience and it has been a gift from me from God that that has been true that a man smoked be Christian and drank and party I think I take very seriously the the scripture that you read earlier about cleansing the temple and and making yourself is fully available to Christ as possible I take that very seriously so if a man land with the man is he making himself fully available to Christ yes let me push the question yes no I trust I know it's true I'm gonna look you in the eye and say it is true do you know that's not you now let me ask you in return when you when you when you make love with your wife is it a spiritual experience in addition to a lot of other things is it not a spiritual I live with my wife on my land with no spirits [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] I would know let's bless your heart thank you for you trying to tell me that you're having a spiritual experience when you land with the breath I'm gonna tell you that that I loved a man who is now dead in such a profound way and he mean that yes I believe the Spirit of God was with us when we made love was it always or was it always a religious was it always a religious experience not always agreed but were there times when it when it transcended what I hope gosh I hope for all of us up and for you pastor I hope for you it was under the anointing it yeah absolutely God Almighty because when you say that you was anointing when you was doing this is saying God sanctioned but what did you get from God would you lay with the man the gift of mutual love and care that was owe you that was fleshy satisfaction you don't know that okay pastor you just simply cannot say that about me we're talking about about me at this point now don't and please be please be careful please be careful I'm telling you you cannot say I'm going to by God will you and land with the man I have been all you got to do is show me someone and hit it well now every like you were every time no I'm talking about my excreta please stop interrupting me please stop interrupt for you this is so fundamentally important I'm talking about a relationship that was as important to me as your relationship with sister Jenny's and this is this is fundamental what what I experienced with him was so much beyond the norm of the way people treat each other selfishly people usually treat each other selfishly in this world he didn't treat me selfishly he treated me the way God treats me he treated me the way God treats me by by reaching out to me in love and care and mutual concern concern that was all about me and not about his knees and I reached out to him in the same way didn't happen every time would that it were would that I were that good a husband of a partner would that I were but when it was wonderful and right it was exactly that it was a it was a spiritual let's see what the Bible says 2nd Peter chapter 2 we'll begin at verse 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with and overtaken them with an overthrow making them and examine them an example unto those under those that after should live ungodly after should live ungodly and deliver just love delivered just lot vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked what you have with me and now is a filthy conversation he won't blame God and say that he got you involved with the anointing to lay with the man and then he gonna tell us that it's wrong for man to lay berth map by scriptural text know that Texas so that text doesn't say that Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality it just doesn't text well that righteous man that righteous man dwelling among them welding a bomb and seeing and hearing next is righteous so next is righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds they are lawful be and their deeds were unlawful was you to humiliate another person to humiliate another person in any way where they finish they want to penetrate a man correct they did they wanted to penetrate a man but they did not want to do with him what my partner and I do together there's simply two different things they wanted to rape a man now let me ask you this in return let me ask you this in return what does it say about lot that he would offer his daughters or that householder and Gibeah that he would offer his daughter two people to be raped instead of a man what do we take away from that if if that story is normative in its every jot and tittle what does that say to women men it talks to women and it shows you the standard of God the order of God that's right what yes they wanted to do a group rape thing to not worry to eliminate the group rape rape taking place by compromising by offering his daughters the natural user but they actually come in and the very fact that they want to demand lock the spawn was not so we could do so wickedly so that a rape with the man is wicked if a marijuana it's wicked nuts with you but if a man marry a man it's wicked but you've taken but you've made a leap there and that's the problem and that's that you have made the leap to marriage and to consensual love between two men that is simply not in that story that story says it is wrong to rape another human being well what it says is this wrong to rape rape a man now you got to get over to judge's before you find out that it's wrong to rape a woman too but it but it says it's wrong to rape a man it doesn't say a word about me and my lover in there it simply doesn't know Paul didn't even deal with it either I'm not saying that Paul didn't deal with it and Nepal did not I have said to you strips deal with I have said to you the pin three places in the Leviticus code in the pole eNOS code in Leviticus in those two texts and in the Romans text it is clear that homosexual sex was not sanctioned as a part of the the experience that that was recommended to Christian people so please tell me why is that god sanction you and didn't sanction nobody else I'm saying to you I'm saying to you I don't think you dads especially yeah yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't claim it on that basis that's that's what it sound like you don't have you you get you talking to me like God had given the gay community special sexual rights he's already spoken in the Torah I ve already spoken in the gospel here where you're saying is no way in Old Testament or new in any form of justification and then for you to tell me that Jesus talks to you and telling you things that he did not tell nobody else you're telling me that God have given you in the gay community a special sexual right and and I am saying to you no that's not true what's the difference because it's not special we are not asking for something that any consideration that any community should not be given let me go back to my argument a minute nobody reads the passage and judges and says because men raped that woman heterosexuality is wrong people don't make that leap and it's not fair or just in the eyes of Christ or anyone else to make that same kind of leap with the passage in Genesis about Sodom about gay folks it's it's circuitous thinking that serves your purpose but it doesn't look it doesn't act out of love for me it doesn't it doesn't look at me and say Harry I know that there is something that is true about you and your life I see the spirit in you in every other aspect of your life and I believe that you care about God and love God incredibly importantly without any other reservation and I got a wrestle with this it says this is a blanket prescription it's clear as day enough said and that's what I'm saying I believe it that's how I feel I'm nothing and that's how people here that's how people here what what you say and I'm saying to you that that the the the spirit speaks to us through a story like that one in judges to say you can't just treat women any old way the twelve try to the twelve project the twelfth to the twelve tribes of Israel rose up to say to these people women matter - that was a new thing that was a new thing then because women didn't matter that much they were owned by their husbands they were they had virtually no power and and yet here's this story that is horrible to read and yet when we hear it I hear it as oh my gosh there's a new thing there these people rose up to defend women that's new that's powerful the text doesn't say it the text doesn't say and therefore women are now honored forever in the same way that men are but the Spirit says it the Spirit takes me to a place that I wouldn't have thought about had I not encountered and lived with that text and it and it causes me to wrestle with it and pray when I look at the at the Romans text and Paul says these people have been doing some really ugly things over there that you know these people that are not you are doing some things that we don't agree about and we don't understand he says it he throws it out as as you would in a sermon in this church perhaps I think you probably would not out of particular care about that issue but it would it would roll off your lips you know as one of the long list of problems like smoking and drinking crack youths and adultery and lots of other things and his point is we all understand that he says it's just not natural we all understand it that way it's the common community understanding and I'm saying to you for the pastor as a brother in Christ I'm begging you on my own behalf and also on behalf of my sisters and brothers who are gay we're asking you don't just stop with the common understanding because the common understanding is always going to lead and this is why it is always about women are always about people of color are always about gay folks are always about the oppressed the Spirit of Christ is leading us to say gee one more time I got a wrestle with whether or not I'm the oppressor or the oppressed and if I'm looking for ways to justify what's always been and I can't say why this is evil other than that it's always been said to be it is if God really unequivocally says it and I'm saying to you and I'm saying to you the things that we treat is unequivocal in in the book today are not unequivocal in the same way except when we talk about homosexuality are you saying homosexuality in the scriptures when God said you made the woman for the man and if a man lie with mankind as he do with the woman what how they both should be killed and how Paul come along and say how to change the truth of God to a lot God is not saying none of this just God said no God says that but he also says if if you and sister Jennings have sex while she it has her menstrual period you also should be killed all right now that is as normative as the piece that applies to me and mine in there and and we simply don't use that kind of judgment we go to a higher judgment not than the scripture we go to Christ himself okay and we say to Christ gee this doesn't this doesn't match up you know this is hard what are we going to do and in my experience Jesus says what did you just tell you I would like to know Jesus says to me about homosexuality Harry this is a gift that God has given you jesus said that you absolutely in my prayers in my spiritual life it is clearly so and has said Jesus has said to people who had to make hard decisions like this look I know the book says it's okay to have slaves by the spirit I'm saying to you no it's not Jesus told you that Harry yes look of ecclesiasticus chapter 26 and at verse 14 what is a silent a side and loving woman and loving woman is a gift of the Lord what the scripture said I love a man is a gift well come on we know I need to be quick to say you're you're in a text that I don't accept as as part of the Canon that's that's outside of the Canon that my my face is outside but will you please show it's anywhere in any script you'll text where a man is a gift from God to another man amen and I'm saying to you again pastor it's not in there is it's not in that's not in this but that's not all I do because that's not this is not a fan the only source of our partay thank you for the dialog thank you they put my pampered men and let me know how much time I have all right we have some more time left let me dive into the Bible quickly how's that six minutes I had 15 minutes I can wreck my balls on the table 15 minutes and pull one of the strippers right in the corner target that's right I think Harry not for being here [Music] let me make it plain to the gay community one we don't hate gay people - we're not trying to put a contract out on bp3 all I'm asking is one simple thing is it God will I don't care what would stand for being on the devil anyway that's right I don't need the devil to politics it's not about sleeve no it's none there's not about so code that's right I don't mind saying that [Applause] this is about God's divine infallible perfect law that we cannot make us write the law of God not designed for you to make it you you must make all the changes to try to [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] that's right God use prophecy to bring those things the past so if we come to anybody today contradictive full of brothers who was here you today [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] not to respect the problems not to respect the apostle's this disrespecting dog executive in Chapter four Centurions chapter forward at verse 13 we having the same spirit of faith according as it is written believe should be as it is really should be according to Scripture what's written that's right not made up that idea not abeyance anything we say about God let me let me toss it at you we cannot know God beyond what's Ritchie that's right anything secret that's right belongs to God that's a secret they even feel it to know we have been the same spirit of theater and the same spirit of belief according as it is written corn as it is made up according as it is written as it is an opinion as it is really suggest as it is really as it is Richard Bob as it is really got to go by what as it is written if they admit aforetime were written for our learning that we do patient they comfort have the script in my hand that's right yes morning as it is written how do we feel I believe as it is written I believe it is written I believe do as it is written I believe how will you believe what's written what would you do I'm there for her my school how about jumping that's right [Applause] [Applause] we believe we cannot be followers of crack the knowledge of the commandments is chapter 19 and verse 19 the knowledge of the commandments knowledge of the command of the Lord is the doctrine of life all scriptures are given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine to have no doctor - Rick you got the head - yeah that's right if your understanding of Scripture is wrong though nothing is wrong that's right and therefore you become one that pass for Stockton false concept to give people false hope that's right that's right thank you not God will know you better walk and get this amen now concerning the thing the Sun and a thing wherever you wrote on to me that you ought to mean it's good for man good for a man not to touch a woman not to touch a woman nevertheless boy for a plan to avoid fornication let every man have his old ways old man have his own wife gotcha let every man had on man have his own what that's right woman from the rib of the man that's right they formed the body of the woman he men lead her back to the man that's right the man declares bone of my bone flesh of my flesh you should be called woman a man cannot say to another man your men is going to marry man amen yet God purpose for children to come in as well [Applause] [Applause] love to endure pregnant [Applause] [Music] [Applause] you challenged that's right man to be the reflection of God that's right and make it woman to be the helpmate of the man god damn that the woman will be a child that's right we can't change that so when men come along laying with me as you do with the woman we men then if that's justifiable then is justifiable so long delay with animals that's right that's right that's right God purpose that's what a population to keep grow let's see what the book says about this now first estrus chapter four and at verse 17 said what and without women without we made not men me [Applause] and come from below all men the book of the wisdom of Solomon chapter 7 and verse 6 have one entrance have one entrance into life into light and the light then a light going out I'm not sure I hide myself I said I'm not sure also am a mortal man and a mortal man like to all like to hear how the offspring of him that was first made of the earth and in my mother's womb and my mother's womb was fashioned to be flesh no part of the man body that God ordained for another man to get pleasure from [Applause] that God ordained for a Louisville man to get pleasure from that's right the gentleman said that he is not convicted that scripture go back to Romans me man Romans chapter 1 listen closely and add verse 21 alright because that when they knew God they do God did not like to retain him as God what a recognize the mascot at verse 28 and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind and do those things which are not convenient being filled with all unrighteousness you better go back up to 20 to move fast but for the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse me I'll have no excuse because that when they knew God knew God they glorified him not as God you know God and God is good and God in the Savior God and the chief regarding the provided a gondola hello that's right but when you don't glorify Him as God that mean you don't give him the respect that's due them that's right if I would say with the amount they profess they know God but it works they did not have because that when they knew God they glorified him not as God victimized on either with things he's always thankful it became though it is not to meet your God then another man plays the role of a woman that's right it is not the will of God that a man play the role amen listen let me get along with you a man please what it language your feet up in the air like your bow to the man to a woman one that's right that's right you can't name no part of the man body that was designed so another man that's right [Applause] horse of a man then but the Bible plainly states that the woman was designed for the man for the Bible say listen at the script Chris Matthews chapter 11 at verse 9 in other words the man created for the woman neither man created for the woman but the woman for the man she the woman your body was designed for man that's right the man that's right man that's right you have to force entry as well try to make it work that's right [Applause] Genisys jump I'm gonna try to pick on the brother but I must preach was Richard that's right that's what I'm sent to do I'm not sent to give you suggestions and ideas and made-up fabricated material that's right [Music] [Applause] one good Aaron descriptively chapter me what good is having strippers in churches get your knuckle prints of that close up the chat that's right yeah that's right this is what caused me to challenge any religion in America and abroad we don't build gold made up team we build on was written and when you build always written you build a house upon the rock [Applause] [Applause] there's not a number on your body they got me for your own kind that's right are you listen to the old man that's right godly for another man so young man that's serving with this and middle waves you know if you're struggling then seek God sincerely from the heart yes right one must look at bailiffs because you're nuts go either before a man or one according to one poll teach us by the spirit he said one toward another one to warn the other then the scripture tells us who was burning for who listen Romans chapter 1 to verse 27 and likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman that I was praying you leave the nephews of the woman you left that's so - tell me Paul didn't have no idea about homosexuality God speaking through Paul that's right see all strictly goodbye inspiration that's right my supporting up nothing on his own he's being guided by the Spirit of the Living God that's right the mass of all creation the sustainer of all worlds likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman no that's right [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] that's right but there was no ordinance that's right frequent and likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman this is playing the next use of the woman burned and their run toward another one for another with man with what men with me what are they doing working working don't just stop there working what working that witches understand stay working that's right hope maybe give me carpentry only and wrinkle-free crazy wolf it is plumbing [Applause] Billy oh yes anyone that knows me no I'm very wrong my breathing that's right I am NOT gonna try to make sin cliff just let up and put a bow on it that's right we're gonna call a spade a spade quick so I can knock off men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was me no it's right to do and receiving in themselves the recompense of their error no it's right to New Era you see the language of Scripture is right error and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was me yeah even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind there's no conviction that's right they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind under a reprobated mind how did it feel after to do those things which are not convenient and what being filled with all unrighteousness and filled with what's not right fornication fornication wickedness with covetousness desiring someone else malicious but it's just full of them murder murder the big debate deceit malignity whisperers backbiters haters of god despiteful proud boasters inventors of evil things disobedient to parents without understanding covenantbreakers without natural affection implacable unmerciful and knowing the judgment of God they know God that they which commit such things everything else that name that the proper name here that if you don't stop doing and knowing the judgment of God I know the judgment of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death not only do the same but have pleasure in them that do baby for listening brothers assistant again we walk the date we want to thank for the Harry Knox have been here we thank them for coming [Applause] you

Channel: Tony Harvin

Views: 17,074

Rating: 4.7621145 out of 5

Keywords: Gino Jennings, Happy, love, USA, people, men, women, boys, girls, kids, babies, Jersey City, Mega Bus, Philly, Africa, new York, new jersey, apostle, church, holy, america, Jamaica, China, First Churc

Id: esdu7N9td4A

Length: 167min 48sec (10068 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 09 2018