Antisemitism row: Gideon Falter goes head-to-head with march organiser

I think people would have seen the video let me say first of all the police officer uh in the video was entirely wrong uh to say that uh Mr fter being visibly Jewish would be a provocation uh that's actually a smear against people marching the reality is that every demonstration there are many hundreds of Jewish people joining us many in an organized Jewish block declaring themselves to be Jewish their presence is always warmly welcom but the nature of the incident was not as Mr fter has tried to portray it he suggested he was innocently going for a walk came across the March and was asked to leave because he was openly Jewish the reality was he came to the march with an Entourage of four to five people and a film crew sought to break through the stewards physically push himself past the police in order to walk in front of the March uh to provoke and to try to stop it he was trying to provoke uh a confrontation that's what happened um he says that is not the case at all what he was doing was which he's perfectly entitled to do he'd been to the synagogue and then he wanted to go for a stroll and he was prevented from doing that because he's Jewish well I think the entire video of the incident is now available online I think people should watch it but I think people need also to be aware of who Mr falter is and the organization he represents they were a deeply controversial organization they were highly criticized shortly after they were set up by a parliamentary inquiry into anti-Semitism they were criticized on the basis that they were deliberately conflating anti-Semitism with legitimate criticism of the actions of the Israeli State they've also been heavily criticized uh for a stream of islamophobic comments including smears against the mayor of London and for using anti-palestinian racist rhetoric since the marches have begun the organization have tried to stop them they've even called for the Army to be brought onto the streets to stop the marches happening now they're using the tactic of coming to the marches trying to provoke an incident so that they can say there are scenes of disorder and therefore the marches uh cannot go ahead these are disgraceful ancts uh they should be shunned by anybody who believes in the right to protest and Democratic freedoms nevertheless Ben he and those with him his film crew whoever was with him should be allowed to cross the road if they want to yeah look I mean first of all what he was actually doing was a counter protest and we would uphold we we have um strong problems with Mr fter political views uh he believes it's legitimate for Israel to do exactly what it's doing at the moment he's entitled to those views however Republic they might be to a whole section of people he has a right to counter protest we uphold people's right to counter-protest at most of the demonstrations there are people who are counter protesting what he was trying to do uh was to claim he had the right to walk directly into the March and if you watch the whole video actually the police officer who was dealing with him uh who made those remarks that were quite disgraceful but what he was also trying to do was suggest to Mr falter a way in which he could get to where he claimed he wanted to get to by a different route he didn't want to do that and he had no intention of going anywhere he came deliberately to the March as I say with an Entourage in a film crew uh in order to provoke a confr confrontation so he could film it and then suggest uh that he was unsafe at the March uh he's with us you want to respond yeah I mean I find that I listened to part of that um I just find that absolutely astonishing I was not going to try and provoke something and if if if Ben Jamal thinks I'm trying to provoke something what exactly does he think I'm trying to provoke by being openly Jewish um it's his March he has these marches constantly I was not there to counter-protest I was not there with film Crews or anything of the sort his March was being covered by film Crews including Sky's film crew which filmed it I was not there to counter protest I was simply Jewish in the vicinity of these marches and what we know from six months of this is that at these marches we see constant incidents of glorification of terrorism we see people engaging in all sorts of anti-Semitic hatred as I saw at that March then and I didn't see anybody from the Palestine solidarity campaigns uh different stewarding teams I didn't see anybody saying for example the people shouting scum or disgusting or Nazis or anything of the sort at me I didn't see any of them being remonstrated with by their fellow Marchers and this is what we see week after week after week and it is no wonder that Jewish people are increasingly feeling that they cannot come into the center of town that they cannot be in the vicinity of these marches and unfortunately as I found out that's true it's not just a suspicion it's not just a fear it is absolutely true okay benjam Roger reply well look I mean first of all the I mean the narrative is entirely untrue I would invite your viewers to go and watch the entire video they will see exactly what happened and Mr falter organization has come to try to disrupt every single one no I'm sorry that's not true I have not been there at any of your demonstrations no no I'm sorry this is not true you also I heard as I came on I heard you saying all sorts of non about what my views are you do not know me you do not know My Views and I'm afraid to say I have not been at your marches you're trying to make out that this is something I do week in week out this is the first one of your marches that I have come across rubbish you talk man can I okay can I speak without interruption for Mr falter come if you'd like to say something true what I what I actually said was your organization has been at each one of the marches I didn't say that you had been at each one of the marches and I do know your views because you are the head of an organization who is very clear about your views and as I said you have been widely criticized as an organization for conflating anti-Semitism sorry you said you started started talk about my views on Israel things like that things I have not spoken about publicly so how can you possibly know my views you you make things up well Mr falter you are you are the head of a campaigning organization so your so are you and what about your organization which puts these Marches On where we've done polling now which shows 90% 90% of British Jews are afraid to come into City centers what do you say about for example people dressed Hamas terrorists at your demonstrations what about that I don't I don't I don't know I can carry on trying to talk over Mr falter but if if if he could just be silent for a minute and then I can make my points and then I'll allow him to respond in any way he wishes to rather than having having him shout over me his views are extremely welln but the issue again that he's not dealing with from the start of these marches very early on his organization called for the Army to be brought onto the the streets the issue is the problem with Mr fala's presence uh was not that he is openly Jewish he's not dealing with the fact that at every single March there are thousands of Jewish people marching many of them in an organized not what rubbish they're in an organized Block in a Jewish block they are warmly welcomed to every demonstration some of them have put out public statements disassociating themselves with what Mr falter and his organiz ation were doing at the last March so that's let come back to you on that so F first of all I this this I I don't want to continue having a conversation with Ben Jamal um I'm happy to have an interview with you but I don't want to carry on want to come on and no no no I'm I'm not I'm I'm not criticizing uked to I thought from you then benjam if I may hold on one second uh Ben Jamal uh according to uh Gideon he has written to the chief superintendent saying that he will be in the vicinity of one of your marches potentially again next week um will you welcome him well I don't welcome people with his political views but he's welcome to counter-protest um he has a right to do that and that you know the police have a job of trying to manage the protest and the counter protest what Mr fter is trying to do what he was trying to do on Saturday and what he's now encouraging other people to do is to come to the March uh to try to disrupt it to try to stop it progressing uh and to seek a confrontation and what very clear people AR stupid very clear what he's trying to do he's trying to provoke scenes of disorder okay we must leave it there Ben because I want to do bring in um Gideon but thank you for taking the time very much appreciated what do you plan to do on the 27th of April thank you well um I plan to walk again I plan to go for a walk in the vicinity of these marches I should be allowed to do that any Jewish person who wants to do that any body who's got friends hood or should feel free to walk with them as well um and the fact when does a walk constitute a March well if I suppose if we say you know everybody meet here and walk to this particular point that would be a March that's not what we're saying we're saying that if these things are so safe um then we should be allowed to walk and what benjam Mal says is absolutely not true there are not thousands of people Jewish people joining his marches that is just categorically if it's it's categorically untrue how many people do you expect to be walking with you next Saturday in the vicinity of uh a pro Palestine March I I don't know it's up to people uh to decide if they want to walk where they want to walk um the thing that I would encourage though is for people to walk in the vicinity and if it's so safe and the policing is so good then it will be safe for everybody to do so do you think it might be inflammatory I mean I don't think you know people said to me and benjam Al I heard him saying as well you know that I was trying to provoke something um and if you follow that line of argument then the line of argument has to be that being Jewish publicly in the vicinity of these marches is a provocation is is inflammatory and it's no different to saying you know if if a woman wears a short skirt um in the vicinity of um you know of of of men then she brings upon on herself anything that happens to her and it's an interesting analogy um the former met Chief superintendent Del Babu has uh said personally if I was policing that March last Saturday I would have been inclined to have arrested you for an assault on a police officer and a breach of the piece D Baboo says that he would have arrested me for assaulting a police officer he said inclined to right well I think I I'd be inclined to speak to my lawy about what he said then I did not assault a police officer how on Earth can anybody say that I'm quite clearly in the video trying to continue to walk where I was going the police officer by the way the and and I'm you know looking at this video after he says to me you are quite openly Jewish after he says that will antagonize the crowds after he says you'll be arrested if you stay here and people are whipping out their smartphones and your camera crew and various other people are on him he realizes how badly he's screwed up and he starts saying that I'm dis ingenuous I'm trying to cross the the sorry to interrupt we've only have a limited amount of time but what about when the Met former met Chief superintendent says I've seen the full video the 13 minutes on Sky News uh a different encounter to the one that Gideon falter has reported the narratives that's been pushed is not accurate personally if I was policing that March I would have been inclined to have arrested him for assault on a police officer and a breach of the peace um I think it's a pretty outrageous thing to say I think it's a pretty outrageous thing to be giving any Credence to I was Jewish I was crossing the street I mean would we be having this conversation do you think had there been a farri March and a black person was walking along the pavement and a police officer spied him out of the corner of his eye grabbed him and told him listen you're being quite openly black and that might antagonize people interesting and we and we gain and because we did have a black uh uh newspaper um analyst on the program this morning and he said that he wouldn't want to but if there was a pro right March he would go elsewhere well okay so so basically what I'm being told by this interview basically is I should have been no I mean people have said yes but these are outrageous things to put to me the idea what it is it is outrageous to suggest it is outrageous to suggest a gentleman sat there where you are two hours ago said exactly that let me explain it is outrageous to say to put to me that the correct response of Jewish people to these no let me let me answer please if you don't mind okay well please don't then keep talking over me you're the person with all of the Power here you're the interviewer and I'd like to respond to your question if I may yes so you are telling me that it is a reasonable suggestion to put to Jewish people that the correct response to these marches where we have seen such Brazen anti-Semitism the whole time is to just stay away from them you know something I had a conversation not long ago with somebody who said to me Gideon is it really the end of the world if Jews have to just avoid Central London at weekends for the next few months and I answered to him yes it is the end of a world which has existed since 1936 at the Battle of cable Street when Jewish londoners and our allies stood side to side against the march of the British Union of fascists and saw them off and if we concede our place on the streets as that is suggesting then we are absolutely on the slipperiest of slopes and let me just just to clarify um Mr fter you brought up the analogy of the black gentleman and I responded with an accurate situation that had happened this morning we are out of time but thank you very much indeed suggestion that I it and you know what for Jo on program let's bring in the former met police chief superintendent should we listening to that chat uh the gentleman that I quoted to Gideon fter Del babo uh your thoughts good morning can I resp well okay I think what we've seen that footage that Sky TV released was very Illuminating uh you saw Mr falter trying to push past push police officers out the way and that that is a common assault uh I think um it I think you're getting a more accurate picture of what was happening I think the police dealt with it um trying to be as sensitive as possible I think the police officer was offering to take Mr fter and his group to a place that where they could cross more appropriately uh Mr falter was refusing uh to to move and wanted to cross at that particular place against the March so I think we're getting a more accurate picture of what's happening but this is this is perhaps important for news outlets to ensure that they get an accurate picture the 30 minutes um that the sky released is is very helpful and I've been asking all weekend since this incident came up can we see the full footage has opposed to bits that have been edited or placed by uh Mr falter and his and his supporters uh but you can't say as a police officer you are openly Jewish quite obviously Jewish and so you can't go where you want to go surely no no I mean that phrase was unacceptable and uh the police have apologized to Mr falter and and quite rightly um but it demonstrates the challenges that the police have when they're trying to manage um demonstrations they need to ensure that everybody there is safe uh they need to ensure that they facilitate a a March a legal and legitimate marching so what do you do with Mr falter and um some of his friends from the synagogue next Saturday want to come out for a walk uh where there is a pro Palestinian March what do the police do well the police will um Mr falter and friends are obviously entitled to March where or walk where they want to uh if they're holding a demonstration then they need to adhere to the conditions of holding demonstrations and and make police aware so the police can facilitate that appropriately so that will be a matter for operational policing um but I I think you know in terms of people being free to walk where they want to and U in in central London you know if they are of Jewish non-jewish any faith then clearly they're entitled to do that okay uh we unfortunately we've got to leave it there but it's good to talk you D thanks for taking the time to join us thank you thank you k

Channel: Sky News

Views: 140,118

Keywords: Sky News, Sky, Gideon Falter, Ben Jamal, Kay Burley, Interview, Protest, Met Police, Antisemitism, Controversy, Row, Head-to-head, Mark rowley, Commissioner, London, Capital

Id: dNC3-KWafPs

Length: 17min 41sec (1061 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 22 2024