Accident Review Engine Failure at Low Altitude Extend the Glide

[Music] so if you had an engine out do you think there's some sort of secret uh maneuver that you can do to extend the glide or maybe only superior pilots need to apply uh that's what we're going to talk about today [Music] hey i'm scott purdue and today on flywire we're going to talk about we're going to talk about extending the glide okay it's basically coming from november 125 whiskey charlie in a 36 in lakeland florida who had an engine out and uh crashed short of the runway okay and it was not in control uh when they crashed so um there's a really very little doubt out there the last ads b head i had was a thousand feet basically so it's kind of hard to interpolate uh exactly what happened but uh they weren't in the control when they when they landed and the airplane was pretty mangled up fortunately they uh as what i know right now both of them survived with serious injuries so let's get to it okay late breaking news i already filmed this video and uh it well ready to go and then ntsb released a preliminary report for 125 whiskey charlie and there's some pretty important stuff here that modifies a little bit about what i was saying and the point of fact that there's a lot of adsb data that they had that they didn't share and i was unable to do some of that plus they had radio traffic air traffic control communications that i wasn't able to get but so here we go this is the quick update here according to recorded air traffic control communications with the lakeland tower the flight to 125 whiskey charlie was instructed by the local controller to join the right downwind leg of the airport traffic pattern for runway 9 at or above 1500 feet msl then the local controller observed the airplane going descending to 800 feet and informed the pilot that the flight needed to be at or above 1500 feet to turn southbound because they obviously had conflicting traffic an occupant of the airplane advised the controller of an engine fire they're they're unclear about whether he actually declared an emergency um i knew that somehow that that atc had been informed that there was an engine fire so this was it and the airplane was then cleared to land on runway runway five and then subsequently cleared to land on runway two seven after a transport category airplane that was on approach to runway nine was instructed to go around however the pilot or passenger advised them the controller that the airplane could not reach the runway according to adsb data between 14 23 and 38 seconds and 14 25 and 37 seconds so about two minutes the flight was about four nautical miles east southeast from the approach end of runway two seven at lakeland and the airplane flew in a westerly direction consistent with entering the downwind leg of the airport traffic pattern for runway after 25 and 37 seconds the airplane turned slightly to the right and then again proceeded briefly on a westerly direction at 14 26 25 the airplane turned to the right onto a northwest west northwesterly direction toward the approach in toward the approach end of runway 2-7 until 27 53 which time the when the flight was about point eight tenths of uh about eight tenths of a nautical mile from and 101 degrees from the approaching runway two seven and then the airplane turned right to a north northwesterly direction and the last adsp target was .68 nautical miles at a 0.92 bearing from the approach end of 2-7 at lakeland and i'm i've plotted the 2-7 runway in and that point so i got the approximate point to show you the point of impact and the airplane impacted a tree about 12 feet above the ground level and then impacted a trailer and the ground uh post-crash fire nearly consumed the cockpit in the cabin the airplane was recovered for with for further examining the airframe in the engine there was one fatal the uh apparently the non-passenger pilot-rated uh passenger was uh fatally injured so we're sorry for their families and their loss but it still looks like to me like they tried to stretch the glide to make it and i continue with the regularly scheduled programming to show just what happens when you try to stretch the glide and try instead of accepting the physics of the situation and attempt to land under control right the question of the day is in one two five whiskey charlie's case is how far can you stretch a glide um happens a lot in engine out situations where people can't quite make it or uh the field that they've chosen or they think they they're going to some place that they can't make they just try to stretch the glide i mean i'm going to keep flying right so today we're going to look at what happens when you try to stretch a glide and remember i said that it's a physics thing so we're going to look at that 1 2 5 whiskey charlie you know i don't know what happened we're going to have to look at the preliminary when it comes out to have any kind of real data looked at the adsb and it looks to me like it was a classic engine out and they tried to stretch the glide that's what my look at it is right now so this isn't a full of accident review but it's a possibility and it's kind of important anyway so i thought i'd make a video of it that's kind of what's happening here whiskey charlie 5 whiskey charlie what they did was they're based apparently at lakeland they went to searing possibly for lunch and then they took off and they did a low approach at arcadia which is southwest of there and then they went to bartow and it looks like they did a basically a stop and go perhaps and uh maybe a land and taxi back can't quite tell the adsb is continuous though then they went to lakeland and just before they got to lakeland this engine issue happened uh then when the engine issue happened they tried to stretch the glide i think all right it remains to be seen why the engine issue happened i don't know was it an engine failure there was no fire at the scene the air airplane impacted and it looks to me like it impacted uh in a in a slight uh spin in an auto rotation and the tail breaks off and it's a relatively flat attitude not hugely nose down and uh so we're going to explore all that what happens when you try to extend the glide and you don't make it how does the airplane depart what does it act like so we're going to look at that today i'm going to do three runs i'm going to start off at 85 knots because i think that's uh pretty nearly what uh what happens continue to slow down from there we're not going to intercept an 85 not decent because i don't see that happening in several other accidents as well but about 800 feet above our floor we're going to intercept that at 85 knots and then start decelerating all the way down and i'm looking to depart looking to be able to do that about 7 800 feet depending on these clouds around us and then from that point slow down and looking for the departure to happen somewhere around 300 ish feet above the ground because i think that's ground rush that is ground rush when you're that's how the eye works so i think what's going to happen is is when you see that people start to pull back a little bit more i got to stretch the guide i got oh my gosh you're getting close to the ground and then the departure happens and we'll see we'll see what happens three runs just to see it see what it looks like there's a nice hole right there i think i'll work over that hole winds are 19 knots pushing us to the east northeast i'm going to disconnect the autopilot i'm going to set a 6000 foot floor that's when i'm going to knock off any of this kind of crap turn the autopilot off because it's just going to argue with me i'm not going to pull the prop back during these failures i'm not seeing that happen so i'm not going to spend a lot of time doing that i don't see any traffic i don't see any on the fish finder power's coming off there's 85 so i'm gonna keep i'm extending the glide here so i'm gonna continually pulling it back if i don't hit this designated floor just exactly that's okay i don't i'm not too keen on it what i really want to see is where the departure happens and uh we'll add 300 feet or subtract 300 feet of that for the floor so the difference between this and an 836 is an 836 is generally going to stall just past 65 60 62 39 something depending on the airplane this airplane is going to stall almost 10 knots slower i'm going to kill that horn i know all about it all right there's 65 there's ground rush and then off to the left there's the departure and the recovery [Music] [Music] [Music] all i did is hold it in the stall and the airplane go off a little bit then off it went [Applause] this is also the first test of the flight test data from the g3x it captures one second data for all kinds of stuff so i'm hoping we're going to be able to use it to help us analyze what's going on so right now we're climbing back up to our entry altitude looking for traffic i don't see any on the fish finder here's my hole back there and i'm good to go on the hole as well got them right over granberry airport i love it all right the power is coming off there it is here's my 85 okay i'm trying to stretch my glide i see the airport out there i can make it i can make it i can make it sure i can make it i can make it i just hit rates going through 800 feet right now so i am slowing my descent rate i'm not going to go very far my speed four speed isn't much there's some way below this glide there's 65 knots we're still holding about 800 feet per minute okay there's the break off to the left and there's the recovery just thinking about where my floor is nominally my ground level is seven thousand feet based on my plan right you know planned profile so we're going to take a look at what attitude what decent rate we hit the ground so i have to compute that what kind of deceleration would that be if it's swampy ground or if it's firm dirt uh the decelerations can be a little bit different force is equal mass times acceleration right newton's second good for traffic adsp is clear my hole's back at nine o'clock right now it's the last run pass that cloud right on the right all right i'm in the hole all the power there's my 85 knots there's my entry parameter pretty close to my altitude okay i'm extending the glide right now i'm doing great i'm extended i'm glad i'm 600 feet per minute at 700 per minute but i'm slowing down pretty rapidly and that's that's a problem okay stagnating a little bit 69 65 this is where about where an 836 is going to stall we're a little bit slower all right here we go [Music] again to the left nope nope to the right nope to the left there's the spin recovery interesting now so that was cool i'm gonna reduce the data and go and see uh what happened and i'll talk about it and present the data probably over a voiceover [Music] [Music] hey [Music] okay so there you saw the video and so on and i said that what i was going to do was i was going to summarize i was going to crunch the data and i was going to summarize it and see if there's some sort of special maneuver we can do to extend the glide and it turns out no it's just physics there's the best glide speed which gains you the maximum distance for the altitude that you have and then there's min sync speed which gives you the most time in the air for the altitude that you have okay anything in between there it's kind of a muddle it's a mush but anything on either side of it uh either these side of those speeds you're throwing away uh altitude for not much gain and the trouble with men's sync speed is is it's getting very close to the stall so in an 836 sync turns out to be not every one but the a3836s that i've flown mid sync is about 76 knots stall speed is about 65 63 to 65 knots so there's not a large margin there uh to avoid it so what i did was is basically i did six tries six events and they all came down it came down to about half right and half left rotation i didn't bias the departure in any way other than i'm going to extend the glide and i'm not quite to the runway yet and then i get ground rush because when i look at most of these accidents and i do have adsp data most of these these departures happen about 300 feet which is about the time you start to get ground rush from your eyes the way your eyes work i mean go into a longer dissertation about that but nevertheless that's what i wanted to see today is what happens or what kind of attitude range do we can can we expect to see of the airplane when it impacts the ground 280 to 300 feet above the ground okay so the first set i did basically uh the it took about six seconds and to make that distance from i'm departing the airplane ground rush to ground impact of course mine was notional ground it was just a basically a line in the sand and i wasn't paying any attention into it in the air but when i calculated it later it took six seconds to make that the airplane had done 213 degrees of rotation heading rotation that's about 36 degrees a little less than 36 degrees per second the actual vertical speed was 46.7 47 feet uh per second okay so it's going pretty fast pitch and roll i think is very interesting the pitch is about 60 degrees and it turns out most of these most of these six the pitch at this point at this ground impact starting at 300 or 300 feet above the ground the pitch is about 50 to 60 degrees of pitch nose down and the roll in this case the first one was basically flat okay it was about just a little bit of left back and but mostly it varied between uh what i'm looking at is about uh that one that was about flat and the rest of them were clustered around 20 degrees between 10 and 20 degrees of roll some to the right some to the left depending on which direction it was going if it was going right the the wing was down to the right or it was flat in that first case so that to me is very interesting because that affects the dynamic of the impact a lot as the how what the nose pitch down is and what what the where the wing is so in a right one so about 10 to 20 degrees it's going to be karate chopping the ground about like that boom and that's going to it's going to continue to rotate because the inertia of the airplane is in rotation so that's pretty interesting i computed the g-force pretty tough to do without knowing the exact parameters but i approximated it given how long i estimated how long it would take to slow down and how much distance would take to do that given a hard surface dirt is a completely different situation uh 125 whiskey charlie was in the parking lot of a business so it was a pretty hard surface asphalt surface dinged it up a little bit but didn't really damage it so the numbers i got were varied between basically 40 and 80 g's of deceleration okay i think in the 40 g in particularly the if it was fairly nose down with some pretty good roll there should be some crash absorption and uh that absorption would minimize the actual it would take some of the deceleration out before it hit the cockpit of the airplane and i think that's what we see in 25125 whiskey charlie because uh the top of the airplane is pretty much off the tail is ripped off and upside down but you can see the door one of the doors are on the left there was a small fire so not likely engine starvation we don't know that yet but that deceleration created by the nose down pitch and the wing uh being a little bit lower probably uh ameliorated could have ameliorated that correctly the physics of this thing is is you can't control the airplane uh if you go below the stall speed okay you're just not going to be able to do that if we learned something the big big takeaway is that you can't stretch a glide it's a physics thing you have to stay with enough speed to keep the airplane flying and i preach that if if you have the field made you want to go to men's sink so you can spend the most time in the air for the given amount of altitude you have okay that's about 76 knots in this airplane in an a36 or this airplane that bonanza so that but you know what i found is that really doesn't give you enough speed to flare so the beach put out an answer for that and they call out the emergency approach speed for an inch and out situations 81 knots and that gives you enough speed to flare okay so for me that's kind of my floor unless i have to land short and all the rest of that stuff generally i use 81 knots for every landing on short final but for an engine out situation that's exactly uh what i'm going to do is i'm going to go to 81 knots and then finish up the whole approach that way to maximize my time in the air and that's what i wanted that's my plan my engine out plan okay so um you can't stretch a glide if you get too slow you know you get your discern rate's going to pick up because you're going to depart and you're not going to have enough altitude to recover if this most of these stalls are happening about 3 200 250-ish above the simulated floor the ground and uh it would be disastrous you're not enough altitude to recover from a departure like that you're going to hit the ground and our little bodies are not going to survive that so we hope we hope you learned something uh from this video about stretching the glide as in you can't do it don't try to do it uh if you can't make an airport you can't make a field that works for you you can't make a road that works for you then land in the trees as slow as you possibly can put your flaps out that'll help you out at that point the flaps are you know damage is not that important uh trying to keep the keep yourselves alive the cockpit intact so you stay alive you have room to stay alive that's the most important thing so that's the thing i hope you liked the video if you did hit like and subscribe it looks a little bit like this here and uh my uh i want to thank my patreon supporters they're up here without you guys it'd be a lot harder to do this to do these videos i'll leave a link down below if you'd like to support the channel through a patreon i'd sure appreciate that anyway hope we learned something uh thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on flywire

Channel: FlyWire- scott perdue

Views: 36,315

Keywords: A36 Bonanza, A36 Bonanza Engine failure Low Altitude, Accident Review, Aerobatic Bonanza, F33 Bonanza, Flying, Flywire, How to Extend the Glide, abom79, about you, aircraft engine failure, antique radio repair, aopa air safety institute, beechcraft bonanza, blancolirio, blancolirio channel, bonanza, dan gryder, dan gryder probable cause, flying an airplane, flywire online, flywire youtube, mike patey, pilot, probable cause dan gryder, scott perdue, travel, trent palmer

Id: 02OobKk6oLY

Length: 24min 57sec (1497 seconds)

Published: Thu May 27 2021