A Conversation with Henry Threadgill

from the Library of Congress in Washington DC you good morning my name is Larry Applebaum music specialist here at the Library of Congress it is a rare pleasure for me to talk with composer multi-instrumentalist and creative improviser Henry Threadgill Henry good to see you again my pleasure you notice that in the intro I never mentioned the word jazz yes I'll do it okay and even though most or I should say much of the information written about you is from a jazz perspective you don't consider yourself a jazz musician anymore no the word has lost its meaning it has no meaning anymore it's it's been diluted so badly you know we took ten people and asked them held up something held up my shoe they would all say it was a shoe we took ten people that we held up a piece of music we call it jazz and we would have ten different opinions on whether or not it is or not do but was I think it was music of Buddy Bolden probably where that word first came up and he had nothing to do with that word it was just I don't know how to Ridge innate it but it was attributed to the music that he played and the improvisational style of it I think we did understand for a long time what jazz wasn't in both America and Europe and other places I don't know exactly when the the process of deconstruction occurred but everything that's fell under the rubric of jazz so it's just I don't subscribe to it you know but you're talking about the word itself and I'm wondering if you feel the same way about the music well the word resistive music doesn't it what music you know or what is the I mean we say uh I mean even the word pop music it's been downloaded what does that mean anymore I think you know we had a period there were a pop music there was real pop music Burt Bacharach was a popular composers and Johnny Mathis was a sing about pop music but now just about all commercial music is called pop music so we the devil's in the propositional Music Hall jazz for a long time I think we all understood what that was but it fell over into usage by commercial entrepreneurs and people and they took and misused it and call it everything jazz you know it's the art for the sake of selling a lot of times you know like I remember the record company they say where will categories just go under you know somebody because the visible category just go on to you know we have to market it a certain way you know what is the market category you know so and I can say it's just going so far now I don't even want to associate it with the workers you know because you have people say you have kids though I don't like jazz they don't even know say well there's probably something that they call jazz that they don't like but nobody likes every nobody likes yeah you know so I'd rather for people to engage me without a label you know I prefer that just come and sample me they don't you don't know whether my hot dog or hamburger or both right it's interesting because you're an artist I mean your composer your instrumentalists as I mentioned but you're an artist and yet you make your living in the world of Commerce yeah so how do you balance those things how do you reconcile them and I don't I don't know of course commas in and that money is exchanged is that what you mean mm-hmm well and I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't make any concessions to what I do artistic it's never question like with artistic control and opinion rest is always with me I've never done anything other than that you know um let me ask you briefly about the performance last night you performed on the stage of the Coolidge auditorium middle group Seward your thoughts about the performance I don't know you know music goes best so fast you know I'm the commitment to play the music at the time to play for people I play for people that's what I do I play up to people not down to people and it just kind of leaves me afterwards the amount of involvement when it's over I might have a momentary reflection of it but it's like I can't believe it all it it always requires me to listen to a recording of it it's something I'm just really not there afterwards it's like just release and I just don't remember them what happened over that period of time you know I mean you remember I remember incidents of like I should have been closer to the mic walk I didn't hear so-and-so as much as I'd like but it if I just have to say did it feel good it felt perfectly fine I mean from what we were doing you know at one point probably 10 minutes into it I noticed that you got a big grin on your face you were just standing there holding the flute while the band was playing and you start to smile mmm I mean a big smile and I was just curious are you ever surprised oh by Anton by how your group realizes your music oh I'm not surprised about that but I'm so I'm always surprised by with with what happens you know you know because the the commitment of these people this is by far the greatest ensemble I've ever had what makes you say that because you've worked with great people all greatest all I've ever had it's the level of commitment the length of time of the commitment the death in which they dig into the different levels of the music on a notational level and on a non notational level that 150 percent involvement for this length of time has caused the connection between these musicians a type of telepathy that has created the highest level of ensemble that I've ever experienced now so much of because everybody in the group is an improviser and improvisation requires being in the moment yeah is there a way that you prepare to be in the moment how do you train yourself to be in the moment you don't you just you just you just prepare but you know it's going to be a surprise you you don't control the factors it's like the rain you can't get ready for the rain you can have an umbrella you're going to get wet it's okay well no umbrella you're going to get wet you can't prepare for the rain hmm you get wet on stage yes yeah it's nice yeah the did what what we do is the process that that I'm involved in with the musicians is everything is it is the thing that enables us to handle what happens in the moment it's a process that I had learned over years how to work on music and I can't think of the German word but I use the German word for rehearse it doesn't mean rehearse what it means is to explore and it's and search the American worker Hirsch is just about going in read the text from left to right if you read the text them left to right and get it correct you finish there's nothing else to do we need to take some left-to-right right-to-left tear the whole text down RIA did it every possible way that we can imagine drop out parts of the text never add anything to the text but completely destroy the text reinvent the text over and over leave out parts of the text then we know something about what we're about to do Deirdre that strictly in the evidence Loring yes phase or you do that in your Foreman's no in the performance we we have to we don't have to sometimes we we can just come up and just improvise but when we're playing material that I've written that we've been working on we generally playing a type of course but we don't really don't know what's going to happen in terms of content we can plan the course but what's going to happen in the course that is going to be a surprise hmm so it's a route was it's a routing we set up a routing you know so it's ok I'm going to stop at First Avenue well how long you gonna stop at first hour now what are you going to do it first Avenue when we lean First Avenue we're going to second hours you know so we'll get the second Avenue what what's going to happen in second Avenue how long will you beat there how much we will be revealed to second out what won't be revealed at second Avenue and you say well I got two more avenues but you stay at second Avenue so long that when you get your third Avenue you pass it so briefly it was like it didn't even exist so it's a routing that I gently arranged or we generally arranged we look at all of the it's the Princeton instance process what I'm saying process is everything and so we arrive at a routing through process - it was okay - what's the routing on B we start looking at so we'll use this for this concert this is the route with learning this is the routing for this piece of writing for this piece you know and before we play that piece again the next time it's the same thing we go back into deconstruction and rerouting so that we don't have to be familiar with what we did before as much as possible to avoid what we did before so that we can have a more spontaneous reaction in the moment okay so a lot of this depends on intuition yes but I know you're deliberate in the way you construct your compositions yeah and so is there a correct way to play your compositions or do you allow your musicians to tinker or mess with the DNA yes they do anything about but what happens is I bring in you bring in a piece of music everything has to be brought in in some order that does not mean that that's the final order or the best order it has so that bring it in that's an arrangement but that arrangement doesn't mean anything yeah it has to come in some kind of way you know but it's guess it's collaborative then not after that did write is besides to become collaborative in things you know we started I started hearing things they hear things it's suggesting why don't we button remove this over here why don't we shift this over here why don't we not play this you know everything becomes open to improvisation that's the other thing in traditional jazz everything is not open to improvisation the form the form is in the province is in improvisation everything with us is in improvisation there's nothing that is sacrosanct traditional jazz has all these things that you don't touch so if somebody wants to study your music for example they can certainly listen to recordings but I'm guessing that only a small percentage of your composed work has been recorded is that true Oh a large percentage a large was yeah okay and yet the composition itself may be different in certain aspects than the recording oh yeah sure because it it can be I can make 10 recordings of the same composition and they all be I mean not different just in improvisation with content but completely different in every aspect might not even be all the parts that you heard won't even be in another that's what I say everything is open for improvisation that means they give and take a rearrangement and deconstruct of anything now when you conceive of certain processes or certain systems or certain compositions or structures do these things come to you sort of fully realized or do you literally have to construct them and and work on them and build them and that's funny that the always out remember when I was growing up as a kid I was always curious about that and would hear these stories about composers conceive and a holy child work it once I never believed that now I never happened but there never happened hmm if it happened why did they have workbooks we have a workbook if you fully conceive of something there would be no sketches sketched one sketch to skate Street can you keep all your sketches I do just yeah but each piece has its own kind of birth I have had things that come to me completely you know ideas that exist for this amount of time but something that exists over a long period of time but no so what happens is a something comes to you and it has a you note you can you examine it and see what is the potential for its growth is and you follow the paths the potential paths of growth and using your artistic reasoning develop it that way that's what happens I assume the growth never stops it never stops does that mean you're never finished with a composition well you have to stop how do you know about it I don't know if that's an artistic decision that you have to make that's artistic well you know see for myself you'd have to wear two hats you create something and then you go and sit out in front of yourself and you listen to it for you listen to yourself interesting yeah otherwise you could be very self-indulgent you have to tear away from yourself and then go and look because they the baby that you like the most you better get rid of it because that's the problem but you never know that unless you go and sit in front of yourself and examine it if you're just stilling once that you'll just enjoy what you're doing to be excited about you have to step away from yourself in order to critique yourself and be really really honest with yourself and say that I'm detached you know because you got to deal with the whole idea of perception optimum perception and other issues like that you know have you always been able to detach no you learn things over time I hope so yeah are you self-critical about your way yeah that's what that's the book that's what I'm talking about the ability you have to do you have to split your personality and look at what you're doing you can't just create because you have to you have to get in the you have to be in the receptive mode to really examine what you're doing see so that one is of like something better that's sending a signal and then there's a person then there's something that's receiving a signal that's what the experience that you got to try to have when you create because you can go into over you can overload all kinds of things you can do good to overload distort because you're only sending but when you step back and look at it then you say ah huh this is not right you know too much of this too much of that too loud too soft too fast too slow too soon too late sometimes just right right sometimes that's right that's how you get it it's and just right for the moment just for now for what you getting ready to do for it now because the next time I do it I don't want to see that I only able to try to get away from the last thing I did if I did every if this particular composition aid when I come back to it I really don't want to have to go that route same route you know because out you know we tend to fake human beings artists are no different we intercept satisfaction you know a person don't get up and go say give me some food that I dislike and give me those shoes it's too tight if you're not going to sing no give me the shoes is comfortable and give me something to taste good - give me the soft chair not too hard chair so we have to so that means that you might be apt to replicate what you did before you might start to refer back to something that you did because of the satisfaction of it so you don't want to have to refer back to things that was satisfying that you thought was okay you know you want to try to find a new new at new way of addressing this coming at it a new way and not go back to anything that's that's what I do I know you've said that live music is it yes it is that's the way to really experience it and yet you don't perform that much you perform as much as you want because it's not a conscious choice cannot hit the road so much it's reality to kids there's no road to hit there's no the whole the business of is down I mean but you haven't been a DC in a long long time I know but not just DC you know at this point I mean like I live in New York I only were playing in New York twice a year period or any place else but the opportunities to play don't exist the way they used to exist that that has changed drastically in United States and Europe and Japan and everywhere else nobody's working where they used to work the venue's the entrepreneurs they're not there I was talking to some people from here last night about that when we were playing here we also plant in Boston so we we could play in New York at that time we would play New York Boston which had more places than DC about four or five places which to playing Boston in Gasquet would make enough money just going from New York to Boston to DC and filling never leave the country never go to the Midwest never goes to the west coast they could just sit right out here in this pocket and play but that's come on you have a sense for why it changed ah that's a lot of reasons for that and it happened over a period of time how did these venues change in all of these cities I mean we lost all those places in New York this hardly if look at the what things to do performance demographics in new in New York now Dan Brooklyn Brooklyn has all to do although they can't afford to live in Manhattan anymore artists can't live this unfriendly expansion economically unfriendly yeah you know by design I might add even Brooklyn is getting expensive yeah because see that's what happens but something gets expensive it spreads to all the neighbors all the neighbors start said well he's selling beer for 75 cents at the corner I'm selling for 50 cents I'm gonna try to sell it for 75 are given I'm sorry for saying nobody's complaining there for 50 cents I'm getting nostalgic yes I works somebody just person sales day house for $100,000 yeah over cross the street they had me selling for $65 okay everybody starts earn 400,000 cross the river you know into Brooklyn to get close to Manhattan price goes up now is this pushing and pushing you pushing now they almost they push the the people and the prices be pushed all the way to East New York additional live on the Laureus hi I still sit yeah if you've been there a long time like myself you can avoid a lot of these economic problems because of the rent laws I say do you receive commissions yeah how often and what do they want to that are there strings attached does well no there's no strings attached other than like what they want you to write for sometimes I mean I get commissioned to write for anything that I want to write for but oftentimes people they want something in particular you know for example I'm somebody I want to clarinet concerto I want to string quartet I want to trio for harmonicas you know just like most Commission's work if they come with they come with a description of what they want got it um do your compositions have expiration dates booty Mimi that you mean like a shelf life Wow an aesthetic shelf life for example the things that you may have written for air your for sextet your ex 75 you're not going to play those necessarily with zoo it no no no though it's just fixed in time no not necessarily the fixed in time with me oh I see I don't go back that's not good for me with anything going back has been destructive in my life and I'm alright just it's just there for work every time I go back on things they they go wrong forward is the best waiting for me in everything has taken a long time to spread that out over every aspect of my life but that is the best way and it's the music that I conceived anyway for at different times I conceived if it wasn't for Orchestra or Chamber Orchestra some it was for these improvisational groups is I don't really want to go back to that because I I had these orchestrations and things in mind at the time and I don't want to go back and try to come up with a new orchestration you know so a lot of times people not just orchestration what people could do and what people couldn't do I was concerned with because it's always interesting what people can't do that's interesting natural of course that's interesting I mean I know that you can jump over the moon but you can't jump over the Sun and I say maybe I better try to see how I can get him to jump over the Sun I know you can't do it but might really come up with something well everybody struggles with something yeah and that's what makes us human yeah you know this is you know people who's always so good you know what these people can do it's not what they can do is what they can't do is what I was saying would hmm I'm for are for the people who will be viewing this webcast or maybe listening to the podcast who may not know as much about you personally they may know your work but not your life as much you grew up in Chicago yeah what part of the city up basically the south side I live I mean over the years I lived all over it I wouldn't say I never really lived on the west side of Chicago always lived on the south side on the north side we don't really call the east side the east side in Chicago Chicago is referred to Northside South Side West Side there's a sad but it's absorbed in the east in the south side or absorbed it to the north side you know so how did living in those neighborhoods inform your love of music and what you're really drawn to well I don't I don't know about those neighborhoods so much is like I would even say those neighborhoods before would I learn when I was growing up as a kid radio right now and some live and live music in the streets of Chicago yeah because radio that's where we visited you know so much music Chicago commuting them the two largest communities outside of Serbia and Poland was in Chicago polish music Serbian music and those those were the days when radio would play a lot of different kinds of years exactly not just one format exactly so I heard a lot of that as a kid besides like you know all the music came out of black communities it was on the radio and classical music that was on the radio but the Eastern European music that was being played and hillbilly music what they call country-western music now that was very proper country-and-western MIT hillbilly music Eastern European music black music was brilliant loaded with that and I just said listen to that as a kid from far back as a comment number for hours although people in the street - yeah people associate you with playing on the alto saxophone and yet your first horn was Tanner - yeah and there's this great tradition of Chicago tenor players move on Freeman Eddie Harris and John Gilmore and so on yeah did any of those John I'm sure you want to see them huh did they share their information with you personally look that's not the way you know you have to just pay attention oh yeah you know just pay attention you know what does I mean you don't really they don't think one of yes you do you think that you can ask the people stuff they can't better be telling you anything you need to you have to you have to discover and on your own and pay attention because if I tell you how to do it now you can be doing it like me you're going to be doing the way I told you whether I do it that way but how I told you now I've got you locked in I put handcuffs on you you guys pay attention but when you're kid you you ask and you sometimes you get upset because guys don't tell you things because but that's not what not that's not the way the education works music education and in the music so-called jazz didn't work that way you have to suss it out for yourself as opposed to where it's done now in these schools and universities a hundred kids are out there they tell a hundred people in the room how to do something to tell 100 people how to make this note how to play that how to negotiate this so they all come out of there doing the same thing now all of the great people in this music called jazz or pop music who sounded alike I don't think Steven Wonder sounded I got all this press I don't think Harlan will sell anything that might award is Eddie large or Davis sound anything like Lester Young and yet I know you had memorable experiences for example meeting John Coltrane yep you're coaching a middle you know I met so many the Congo was hot yeah she got I mean it was like it was like go 52nd Street here Chicago we had a live music everybody was was constantly in their plan Coltrane Miles it didn't matter you know our Blakely the art farm Elizabeth Johnny Griffin you know yet like you are dangerous kind of basic I met Duke you know I met coach training at all of them when I was there you know they had I watch along oh I grew up with Under Armour Jamaal my uncle play with arm Jamal I was used to be that's how it's our first one to play basis because my uncle played bass when he when I was living with my uncle in Rockford that's when my Nevin Wilson his bass player play with wood armature mom for while they were you know closely associated with each other um was there a recognizable Chicago sound look when you listen to somebody could you tell if they're from Chicago when you listen to them play I could tune the players and also Southwest Texas Oklahoma but what gives it away what gives away the Chicago sound it's not as a comical sound is the wait alterna-prom it's it's kind of a sound and it has a lot to do it intonation it's a very wide idea about intonation whereas it's very strict in other regions you know that this is into that this note is in tune and this is what it should be but Chicago to tell the players and stuff they didn't think that way it was like you know it was very very wide what you could do you know Vaughn Freeman but not just Vaughn Freeman John Gilmore yeah you know yeah um who is Horace Shepard and how did he respond shipments from though he was a very famous sub because you Evangelist Church of God minister in Philadelphia and how did you start working with him uh he heard me in Chicago at the time I was playing with these with a sanctified Church with a church garden Chicago and he had a group that was like you know how better Grammer's you have all these people with him well he had a group of people with him there was like really something here included revival or what it was yeah and go around you know and I get we just would come to and just roll over places the talent the musical talent that he had up on the stage it was nothing like what Bela Grambling were doing it all so I mean some of us some people that could really play violin piano organism's I remember though though what family was that I can't think of the name right now the youngest daughter had perfect recall and perfect pitch and it was great pianist named Alan Turner he would sit down and start improvising at the piano and she would go to the organ and would sound like an echo because of a perfect recall he would be improvising and she would be picking it up as fast as he could put it out I mean he had a hose it was like it was a it was a traveling reviews or show in a way because like but we should go through big revival places where a lot of times B B's big kind of almost kind of a competition but just Minister against this minister who was the greatest ministers and something so like you'd be a part of that would come into a place and like rolled in and invariably he would take over hahaha sure but that was famous when I was a kid he was he was famous as a child child preacher when I was a kid hmm in Chicago a lot of those preachers could really swing in their own way yeah if you break down their cadence yeah some heavy stuff yeah they're very musical yeah oh very yeah yeah is that when you switch to Alto yeah and what prompted that the church that I was playing at the Church of God the minister Morris was the minister and I came there first time he asked me to play I think he asked me to play that song was it his eyes on the sparrow or something like that and I went up and played it now this is a sanctified Church there's quite a bit of difference I grew up in by one grandmother was that Baptist Church big the biggest Baptist Church the garbin I had another grandmother it was that that's I was like Church of God in Christ which is more spiritualist type of church so I played it and it just fell flat there was like like the people just kind of like mmm polite was like it was it was a couple it was very polite to response and the Minister Toby said episode we said Henry you know he didn't say anything about the performance he just said you know up under the pulpit I've had to saxophone I don't know what it is he said but I was just it looked like it's not as big as the one you got he said why don't you uh why don't you get it fixed up and I'll pay for it so I took it and got it overhauled it was Alto and when it was overhaul II I came back with it and he asked me said you know I want you to play that piece again for me as on the sparrow when I went up and played it his eyes on the sparrow it was a bit was a big different response that was going on in the church so I could I could I remember I had this realization right then that the tenant is a blues horn and the blues song is not necessary a churches on the alto is a church on it the register is the vocal register is what it is is the vocal register of it you know that's a life lesson yeah yeah so there's some interesting things that happen in your sort of earlier in your career where you have this experience working blues Yasim whatever other kinds of music in Chicago then you go out on the road and play gospel sanctified music right and then you're starting to mix with and perhaps collaborate with muha Richard Abrams and things that led to the experimental band right but then there's something that happens by the way when did you first meet mohawk 19 maybe 63 or something 63 or 64 same period of time when you met uh what's-his-name Phil Quran uh yeah yeah exactly I think I met Phil book I'm a field on the train on the L train before I met move on more came and played at our school we get we had a music club at college at Wilson College and we invited him but a group to come there but I actually rented to kill Quran on the public transportation system hmm by the way Sunhwa was also living in Chicago yep I grew up on the tundra listening to some on weekly basis that at rehearsals so was there cross-fertilization between jazz orchestra and the experimental band and oh people day what that was like three kind of leadership spawn on there with Sunhwa who had been the first one and then move all and feel who had been together but then split so like they had like both they had a different camp philosophical musical camp but they all went back to son right in a way he had been originator of it and so like the other people were in there playing with son Robert in the Pope Hill with Phil Quran or they'd be at ACM and somehow it was just kind of triangle that worked that way you know and you gravitated towards Mahal or did it work yeah I will tell Quran to later yeah I was in the in a great small ensemble with John Stubblefield and Pete cozy steamer call Sonny Rollins aren't on piano sanctified pianist ah I think was master hint could have been master Henry on percussion uh well if it wasn't master it was it so the percussion play it was a great incredible Diane so things are happening in Chicago yeah definitely a lot of creative musicians and movement and then at some point that coalesces into the a ACM the Association for the Advancement of creative musicians but you missed the first days of that because you were somewhere else that was in the service but where were you specifically I first I was in the state's I wouldn t they started up I was in the states in 66 and I was at came back in I was at a couple of the first recordings not the first I was at Boulos first recording and joseph's first recording but I miss silent rhaskos and then I was gone because they're not able to the nob Kansas Kansas they do not went to Vietnam if you enlist or where you're drafted I did for the draft here enlisted for the draft you know what that is but that means no explain anything you draft it or you joined there's another category if you're professional person you join your tailor your dentists your professional musician if you join you get to do what you want you have a contract with the government I say nobody else has a contract so if you don't if they don't do what's in the contract you get an honorable discharge but you stay in in between the length of time of a person that's drafted at a person who joins six months longer than a draftee so you joined on as a musician yeah because my but got the draft board told me they were getting ready to draft me I was like working trying to save some money to take some more classes that took Mara conservatory music and I didn't have and so my status was gone the exemption status was going off was like operating up under radar they thought I thought the government thought I was still taking a full load but they checked the school and found out I was taking a part-time lonely you say they're gonna draft you and he told me to say the best thing you can do say you you say you're a musician right he said he said join as a musician so edit work very because I actually went in as an arranger enemies is I had to first arrange his job in Kansas they're good musicians in the service oh you kidding that's been the history who wasn't in it who wasn't named any great musicians there was it Charlie Parker just by oh they have a big jaws oh yeah so how do you get from being first arranger to in the infantry in Vietnam during the death that's I got it is retreat because of music good I wrote really because of the music hero what does that mean what's the sorry the the conductor of the orchestra event concert band had gone away and they had given me a commission to write out a medley of these are American I don't know how to call these a minute all beautiful all these council portrayal example Dada did all these kind of things admit that he's the rock of ages' will touch of that and all of that and I wrote it it was very I guess it must have came across like Stravinsky or something to these people at the time the band the musicians in Orchestra loved it but the band conductor had never heard it so the Master Sergeant was conducting in his place and we never knew what I never knew what it was really for it was for some big inauguration in Kansas City well the Cardinal the governor the mayor the head of the fifth Army which control their party that were all on this podium for this and this piece was being premiered and the Cardinal was gonna speak the pieces and the conductor came in was conducting on the fly I mean he was conducting right at that moment he looked it over and he had never even rehearse tit but that was neither here there they weren't up in this piece on him or about 810 bars and the Karla jumped up and screamed blasphemy that's what he said he said blasphemy and governor looked at the mayor and Mayor Greg and then he looked over that the hesitant the generals over the chiefs of the army and look down at the conductor good is it because the Cardinal looked as he made it clear that he was like this is blasphemy what's going on right down here the guy was about to thank the conductor's not today so he looked to the First Sergeant the master sergeant who he hadn't left to be charged say how did you put me in the soup the guy then they pointed to me I was on the sidelines I wasn't even in orchestra playing obviously so it was like it was all Asif I click click click click conductor to First Sergeant first artist Threadgill did it tracheal did it we packed up they stopped the performance get back on the bus and coach they but they jumped on me on the bus okay taking you but you're back in orchestra ruins tomorrow you know back in unify work out even where I was just very enclosed I should lay around lay my bed all day smoking reading books listen to music bright music it's a back in uniform and what does it say and we want a backhoe in the clarinet section so this is the next day Orchestra Jennifer her says the morning rehearsal optimism first I come in you know and he said back in the second clarinet section you know I thought man you know I got to sit back up here do this again you know so we went to lunch came back after lunch afternoon Herschel one o'clock coming to the orchestra room sit down God's giving start to music this guy comes in the door in uniform and I'll dress uniform Kenna dispatched case running blood the cases they called the same attention Calpis briefcase pulled out these paper until everybody pay attention you know sounds like something within at the hog races how will I believe our lava lovers got started reading up it's according to a song song song song song song so bla bla bla bla bla bla bla I was private private Threadgill songs I said what did you say he says shut up you know so so so so private sector love love a little bit side to the 4th Infantry Division place I said play cool where's that they said hey we told you to cool it you know guys forget you got to the end and he said you got 30 days again is life in order report to Oakland California then on to play cooler 4th Infantry Division I said what the I can't stand on cam what are you explain it is this I said you can't do this I'm a clarinet player I'm in high demand I said nobody gets for the clear difference I said I'm a piece of jewelry here man what are you doing you know in one day it was the afternoon performance 2 or 3 3 o'clock afternoon to show you how Wilson grand 5th army generals command cut papers overnight overnight 1 o'clock the next day guy comes in breach the riot act on me tells me I got 30 days to get my life in order to report to California and sit down wait on the ship or sit there wait on the airplane to take me to the 4th Infantry Division anyway I said where's Plato in the central highlands of north vietnam and so first thing i thought i said let me review my contract because it's a 4th Infantry Division you can never beat the then you can be in me takes a long time but it's very difficult see I went to fourth infantry band but what's the first word infantry band infantry surgeon infantry cook any time to get ready infantry see it's like a card game like that say your hornaday say get out there tomorrow did you see combat or constantly you were there during the Tet Offensive - two offensives - I get I get blown up in the first one in the Jeep injured in the first one during the Jeep what did you take away from that experience oh so much first of all he got rid of religion okay and found out what spirituality is and I heard a lot of fantastic duty and made some grit and met some great musicians and I get ups in another part of the world both Vietnam Hong Kong and whereas else I stopped someplace else it's just you know it's so that's that's um you could never put in a little nutshell of me you know it was that sort of like life and death type of experience that exists on an everyday basis you know and like you said people always say you see combat 3 B you know that pop was the last war that was closest to the classical idea of combat in terms of this force meet this force but it didn't exist that way except at certain time because there was a new game plan the Vietnamese had another game plan that the Americans weren't prepared for you know guerrilla warfare and terrorism real sophisticated terrorism I mean really sophisticated terrorism but we call it terrorism right now there's more like gain thuggery very unsophisticated far as I'm concerned psychological you know let nothing happen first of all cause cause the accident accident means to focus on something for something to be focused on the cause something to be focused on so there's a heightened sense about something they create a heightened sense and nothing then let it just go on and on and on and nothing happens except for this heightened sense just when you about ready to look away something happens boom and then nothing else happened and then he comes back exactly at the same time like it was on a new moon and come back on a new moon and then it never happens again this is what I call terrorism because this is all mathematics and sense of mental mood you know that they were playing with you know not just a whole lot of little ground chicory you know putting things in the ground they were playing the long game - yeah so to come away from that it's a you know it was like it wasn't pleasant because like you know to see mankind at the lowest level because that was the first time I grew up in Chicago to me kids now they have guns into all kind of crazy stuff you know weapons I mean you know was it you know that says this is sad you know I mean among the Americans themselves you know everything got resolved you know like the the great thing I would the greatest thing that happened far as I could certify the Vietnam War was a relationship between blacks and whites that got solved in the world and a Wild West Wayne come out in the street what would only World War two and the Korean War between blacks and white that stopped you know Vietnam would that stop dead that was like you want to do it let's do it the brothers stopped it cold leaving cold yeah and for the best because the comradeship between blacks and white was for real they didn't happen before then that was the only place they had it except people that was marching for things in this country together but not that's different than being under this threat of death on a daily basis you understand life and death yeah so you returned to Chicago a changed man of course and things had changed in Chicago yeah in his country it had changed so the ACM is up and running at that point right and there was a haven for me yeah and then within a year or so okay within a year so many of the ACM they look entirely Paris right but you chose not to go no because that just gotten back I just I was landing and I needed to get I need to get a sense of what was going on and get myself together in Chicago and get myself get my music going and by time I got everything going to the parish days were ending everybody was coming back I mean that wasn't just ACOG oh that was period there was the migration to Paris was like was was painters everything you know everybody was dead Johnny Griffin you know who Don Byas our chest is gone everybody was in Paris you know James Baldwin everybody was there you know uh dancers you know so it just had run his course you know and so then we saw the exodus coming back to the United State cause that's when Don Byas and people came back here forget the writer so by that time I perform air double but I'd gone over before that you know I went I chose to go I said well Paris is over so I went to Amsterdam Amsterdam still has something going on but it wasn't like the artistic capital like may stray or Paris or what viana had been you know but it was still something happening there so like I went to I went to London and Dena went to Amsterdam and there were a great painter there you've actually lived in different places around the world not just Vietnam or stayed in Hong Kong so I know you spent a lot of time in Caracas in India yeah and Ronson - in Trinidad yeah do you think of your creative aesthetic as eastern or western neither right both or everything just everything you know you just you you're the sum of everything that you are you know whatever that might be if it's all WestEd in there maybe that's the summation is a Western summation but like I've been I spent time in Islands and I've been timing and in India in Venezuela Indonesia no not Indonesia no no no okay now India in Caracas is a Venezuela make I bow in Port of Spain Tobago hmm do you believe in fate you know I'm not sure I don't I'm not really sure I've thought about that a lot but I'm not really sure about that you I think in February you will begin your seventh decade yeah yeah that's what I've been told you do reflect on that no I never deal in those kind of things no numbers they did meaningless to me they've always been minions to me they thought it was something with my teachers thought it was something wrong with me when I was a kid because there's a German mother he doesn't know his birthday because I they say you want a birthday here what I need to remember that for hmm but it's just taking up valuable space I need I need on my storage space some number that like that I gotta remember that you know they say he's got seven birthdays so I don't get it you know how much of your life is improvised all of it George's - this was so important about improvisation people don't understand and this is a this is a way to live your life and to solve problems an improvisational approach it makes you stop doing foolish things and making the same mistakes if you tell if you're taking a propositional look at things in life you know you people get faced for things here that door closes over there it gets boarded up it was all that's the only way out everybody's looking that way why is that the only way out if you turn your head is it ready no door with it up so does that mean you can't get out over there you saw the staring up said that it's a lateral type of thinking we will keep you from doing making bad choices in life and a lot of times you can solve a lot of problems in your life on a daily basis simple things you know because most of our behavior is habitual anyway and predictable you know and whenever the conflict we don't have the reasoning ability to come up with a an acceptable alternative we generally have a conflict you know because we're not thinking improvisationally you know we have just begun to scratch the surface here yeah I know you have to get back to the hotel impact and you got to get back on the train you you're brooding behind okay um one last question if you don't mind as a composer as a musician as a man how do you measure success that you are convinced it that you found the thing that you that makes you happy in life and that you accept it that you want to do it for the rest of your life Henry rather help continued success thank you thank you this has been a presentation of the Library of Congress visit us at loc.gov

Channel: Library of Congress

Views: 21,829

Rating: 4.9763312 out of 5

Keywords: Library of Congress, Henry Threadgill (Musical Artist)

Id: 42pCOwN6Uf8

Length: 65min 21sec (3921 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 01 2014