357 Magnum vs 44 Magnum Carbines

[Music] I were not on the range today we're at one of our training facilities although you probably will have to put up with gunfire in the background a while ago we did a presentation comparing 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum in revolvers today we're going to compare 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum in rifles and there's a few caveats that go with that the first one being the difference between a fair comparison and a realistic comparison to be truly fair we would hopefully have rifles from the same manufacturer with the same or at least very similar barrel lengths and we would use ammunition from the same manufacturer with the same designation with the same projectile weight now that would be very easy if we were comparing calibers for example 318 H Magnum 300 Winchester Magnum there's a variety of projectile weights in both but it would be very common that those two calibers would you is the same projectile weight that's not the case with 357 and 44 for 357 Magnum there's a variety of projectile weights but in my experience what most common is 125 or 150 a trained projectile as with 44 Magnum again many different projectile weights but what's most common is a 240 or a 225 grain projectile so to make the comparison fair there is 357 Magnum ammunition available with a 180 grain projectile and there is 44 magnum ammunition available with 180 grain projectile now you saw that those were both Remington a munitions but they still had a different designation but they're going to be close enough and so by using ammunition with the same projectile weight we can make a fair comparison however that's not realistic because with a 357 what's going to be far more common as a 125 or 150 a 240 for a 240 or somewhere around it 225 and so the problem we run into is if we try to make the comparison fair I get a lot of hate mail saying that it wasn't realistic if I make the comparison realistic I get a lot of hate mail complaining that it wasn't fair if we try to cover both bases I get a lot of hate mail telling me that the presentation was far too long and tedious so it looks like no matter what we do we're going to get a lot of hate mail so what we're going to do today is within the confines of the firearms and the ammunition that's available to me at this point in our society I'm going to try to the best I can make the comparison fair and we'll also do a realistic comparison and for those who think that's tedious I invite you to fast forward through the coronagraph section to the part where you see me standing next to the chart with the results so with that let's take a look at the rifles we're going to use now the carbines I'm going to use today and yes please bear with me if I use the word carbine and rifle interchangeably for 357 magnum Marlin model 1894 CS with an 18 and a half inch barrel for 44 Magnum of Marlin model 1894 s with a 20 inch barrel so we have an inch and a half difference in barrel lengths in typical handgun length barrels that could create quite a bit of difference in the carbines I think the difference will be minimal so let's go to the chronograph I'm going to start with the 357 Magnum which is loaded with Remington high terminal performance 357 Magnum 180 grain semi-jacketed hollow point 1498 15 23 15 44 15 24 and 1498 now let's see how that compares to the 44 and now we'll shoot the 44 Magnum which is loaded with Remington green and white locks 44 Magnum 180 grain semi-jacketed soft point also you might notice this rifle looks a lot bigger it's just that the stock is longer 21 29 2169 21:58 21:52 and 2178 now let's try some different types of ammo now we've got some federal blue box 357 Magnum 180 grain jacketed hollow-point 15 10 15 32 1483 1491 1489 and 1493 now let's try another type of 180 grain 44 around and here's some PMC bronze 44 Magnum 180 grain jacketed hollow-point 1965 1972 1984 1979 timber 1979 we'll try one more shot and it still says 1979 so we'll throw out one of those 1979 now let's try some different bullet weights so we did something that was as fair as I could make it now let's try something that's perhaps a little more realistic Sig Sauer elite performance 44 Magnum 240 grand jacketed hollow-point Sig Sauer elite performance 357 Magnum 125 grand jacket all the way and I'll start with the 357 1753 1789 1794 1756 and 1795 let's see how that compares to the 44 Magnum and now the 44 1680 1641 [Applause] 1641 1638 1640 1647 and 1618 and of course when we get to readings that are the same in a row we'll throw one of those out now we'll try spear gold ammunition 44 Magnum 210 grain gold hollow-point and 357 Magnum 158 grain gold hollow-point and again we'll start with the 357 1792 1808 1796 1778 1812 and 1789 now let's see how that compares to the 44 and now the 44 Gold Dot with it's 210 grain gold on hollow plain 1906 1908 1907 1925 in 1901 okay we'll try one more type of ammunition this is Hornet II lever evolution ammunition that's all one word lever evolution it's actually made for rifles for 44 Magnum it's a 225 grain FTX projectile like a ballistic tip and for 357 Magnum it's a 140 grain FTX projectile like the ballistic tip and again we'll start with the 357 1841 1841 1832 1844 1836 and 1806 now let's try the 44 and now the 44 1796 1812 1808 1800 1786 and 1798 and now finally let's go crunch the numbers well I crunched the numbers in here they are now normally I like to impress you with my ability to memorize all of these numbers today there's just too many numbers for me to do that please bear with me if I have to look at the chart a couple of times we tried to make this comparison fair and realistic in the sense of fair using the same projectile weights with our 44 Magnum Remington ammunition with a 180 gram projectile we got a velocity of 20 157 with the Remington 357 with 180 green projectile we got a velocity of 1517 the 44 Magnum s 640 feet per second more that's a lot more with our other 180 gram projectiles with a 44 Magnum with the PMC bronze 180 grain we got a velocity of 1975 with the 357 Magnum federal blue box 180 gram projectile we got 1499 the 44 Magnum still 476 feet per second more again a lot more but when we moved from fair to more realistic and we look at our Sig Sauer elite performance ammunition for the 44 Magnum we've got a velocity of 600 excuse me 1644 compared to the Sig Sauer elite performance 357 Magnum 125 grand projectile which got a velocity of 1777 so we see now the 357 Magnum has a velocity that's 133 feet per second more and that is significantly more but it achieved that with a bullet that weighs 115 grains less so which one is more powerful when we'll come back to that now our next one our spear gold dot this is probably the comparison that creates the best balance between fair and realistic and we see with our 44 Magnum with a 210 grain projectile we got 1909 feet per second with 158 grain projectile and 357 Magnum that's 1795 so our 44 Magnum is getting 114 feet per second more and does that with a projectile that weighs 72 grains more obviously more powerful now with our Hornady lever revolution ammunition and bear with me I might pronounce that several different ways by the time we're done this ammunition is actually made for lever-action rifles now part of that has to do with this projectile design and that's a topic for another time but what we see here is it with a 44 Magnum and a 225 grain projectile will get a velocity of 1,800 the 357 Magnum lever revolution ammunition with 140 gram projectile to get a velocity of 1831 31 feet per second more that's not enough difference to make a difference and it achieves that with the projectile that weighs 85 grains less so obviously the 44 Magnum is more powerful but when we're talking about projectiles that weigh the same amount obviously the one that's going faster with more velocity is going to have greater energy foot-pounds and be more powerful but what about when we're talking about differences in velocity and differences in projectile weights how much difference will there be in energy foot-pounds well with our Sig Sauer elite performance ammunition if I did my math right for the 44 Magnum we have fourteen hundred and forty energy foot pounds for the 357 we have eight hundred and seventy six giving the 44 Magnum 564 pounds more now if you had a handgun that was generating 564 energy foot-pounds that would be a fairly powerful handgun in this case it's not 564 pounds is fourteen hundred and forty it's 564 pounds more than the 357 if you look at the Hornady lever evolution ammunition it's 16 19 versus a thousand and forty to the 44 Magnum has 577 pounds more that is a lot more so no matter how you slice this 44 Magnum is a lot more powerful than 357 Magnum now some people will say that the entirety of this is unfair because the 44 rifle I was using had a barrel that was an inch and a half longer than the 357 barrel and depending on what ammo you're using that might make some difference it certainly does not make 640 feet per second of difference that would be a very impressive inch and a half of barrel so the bottom line here is really two things one 44 Magnum is a lot more powerful than 357 and 2 when you get right down these are all just numbers on a piece of cardboard how will these translate into effectiveness on the intended target let's see if we can demonstrate that this is the meat target now for those who haven't seen it before and even more so those who have seen it before please pay close attention as I ramble off its Anatomy because it has changed a little bit typically the meat target has leather jacket skin I go to thrift shops I buy leather jackets I cut them up these days the thrift shops are closed so today's meat target has beef tripe skin followed by pork steak pectoral pork ribs bag of oranges simulate lung tissue more pork ribs on the back four layers of t-shirt on the front four layers on the back of the whole thing followed by the new and improved high tech fleece bullet stop and I'm going to shoot from 20 yards with our Sig Sauer elite performance 357 Magnum 125 grand jacketed hollow-point let's see what kind of damage we can do well I've got our meat target taken apart here's our tripe skin here's our pork steak pectoral now here's the ribs on the front of the target of the three shots I fired only to hit these ribs one close to the edge and one pretty well centered then our orange lung tissue is just obliterated and all three of our projectiles hit the ribs on the back of the target now if you compare the holes and the ribs on the front of the target the holes and the ribs in the back you can see that our projectiles have lost a lot of energy by the time they go this far now as far as penetration the two projectiles that hit the ribs on the front of the target one was stopped by the t-shirt on the back of the target one was stopped by the first layer of fleece the projectile that missed the ribs on the front was stopped by about the tenth layer of fleece so we see a lot of damage but not too much potential for over penetration now let's take a look at the projectiles and here's our projectiles you can see one lost its jacket and we see outstanding expansion but not too much fragmentation now we have a new meat target set up and I'll shoot this from 20 yards with our Sig Sauer elite performance 44 Magnum 240 grain jacketed hollow-point [Applause] well our meet target tried to make its escape but we recaptured it and set it up again we'll take one more shot [Applause] well there's your pork steak Peck drill you can see it that the 44 rounds just obliterated the ribs on the front of the target in my subjective view it looks like the 44 did almost twice as much damage to the orange lung tissue as the 357 did and you can see a lot more damage to the ribs on the back now as far as penetration it was almost identical to the 357 although all three of the 44 rounds hit the ribs on the front of the target one was stopped by the t-shirt on the back of the target one was stopped by the first layer of fleece and one projectile made it through to about the 12th layer of fleece so we see a lot more damage but not really much more penetration now let's take a close-up look at these projectiles and we see excellent expansion although with the 44 we saw more fragmentation than we did with the 357 now let's do something different this is what I call the Magnum meet target and it has beef tripe skin followed by beef ribs beef ribs are much more robust than pork ribs a much larger bag of oranges to simulate larger lung capacity maybe both lungs and then on the back it has pork ribs I got to do beef and pork due to nothing more than what was available at the store and then of course it's followed by the new and improved high-tech fleece bullet stop and I'll shoot this from 20 yards with our Hornet II lever revolution 357 Magnum 140 grand FDX projectile but before I do that I want to show you a close-up of what the FTX projectile looks like and here's your 357 Magnum FTX projectile which has a plastic tip like a ballistic tip [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] well I've got the meet target taking apart the first thing I want to point out is this meet target wasn't wearing a t-shirt animals seldom do now here's the ribs on the front of the target all four projectiles hit the ribs on the front of the target three of them actually hitting and shattering ribs one going between the ribs did a lot of damage to our orange lung tissue three of the four projectiles hit the ribs on the back of the target the holes are very difficult to see they're just small holes that ron's have lost almost all of their energy by the time they get here the one projectile that went between the ribs on the front of the target made it through to about the 15th layer of fleece two of the other projectiles were stopped by the first layer of fleece one of them not only shattered the rib but it shattered the projectile so much it didn't even make it through to the ribs on the back of the target now let's take a close-up look at these projectiles here's our four projectiles this is the one that was stopped by the 15th layer of fleece these two by the first layer of fleece and the one that was stopped in the orange lung tissue this one's fragmented a significant amount and lost its jacket these are fragmented even more and lost their jackets and this one's fragmented completely the same ammunition is called lever revolution and is made for lever-action rifles and I presume it's made for the purposes of hunting given its propensity for fragmentation this is not an ammunition I would choose for hunting and now we've got a new Magnum meat target set up which is also beef ribs on the front pork ribs on the back and I'll shoot this from 20 yards with our Hornady lever revolution 44 Magnum 225 grain FDX projector [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] well here's the ribs on the front of the target a lot more damage there in my subjective evaluation that looks like our orange lung tissue has significantly more damage and the ribs on the back of the target again significantly more damage with the 44 than there was with 357 now as far as penetration some of our 44 projectiles made to the 20th and 30th layer of fleece and that's partly because they're heavier and so they'll retain their energy better and it's partly because they stayed intact let's take a close-up look at these projectiles here's our four projectiles now this one here's just the jacket I dropped the bullet on the ground and couldn't find it our others have excellent expansion and although there was some fragmentation it's not nearly as much as we had with the 357 something I want to mention is that this is an earplug case I wear ear plugs with every shot I take today you're seeing me wear earphones when I'm doing a lot of shooting especially with high-pressure rounds with a 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum I will typically use ear plugs and earphones and that's what I'm doing right now okay one more point I want to make is about recoil I have this rifle loaded with Remington 357 Magnum 125 grain projectile let's see how much recoil there is [Applause] now let's try that with the 44 and see how they compare this 44 magnum rifle is significantly heavier than the 357 and it's loaded with 44 Magnum 240 grain projectile could you see the recoil difference I could certainly feel the difference so the takeaways from all of this first 44 Magnum is a lot more powerful than 357 just how much more will depend in part on your ammunition choices but that having been said that does not mean that 357 Magnum is weak several of the crew have killed deer and I mean killed them very efficiently with 357 Magnum both in rifles and handguns also 357 can have an advantage of usually less recoil and sometimes the guns can be lighter and smaller and that can be an advantage for some people 357 also has the unique advantage of you can load it with 38 special ammunition which is very common usually less expensive than 357 and it can give you less report less recoil and that can be a good option for some people now when I say that people will ask me well can't you put 44 special into a 44 Magnum and the answer is yes but these days 44 special is not as common as it used to be and quite often 44 special ammunition is more expensive than 44 Magnum ammo so in your 44 Magnum if you really need less report less recoil 44 special is an option but most of the time not a cost-effective option so as always don't try this at home on what you call a professional and thanks for watching the 357 Magnum versus 44 Magnum video [Music]

Channel: Paul Harrell

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Id: Rp6k3ES1mKE

Length: 23min 52sec (1432 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 17 2020