351 Small Block Dyno Shootout: Windsor vs Cleveland - HorsePower S16, E11

[Music] but it started with a salvage yard hunt for Quinn Ford 351 Windsor and a cleveland after tearing down both engines for machining we jumped on the cleveland bill first with a new roller cam and repurposed original crime we upgraded it to HV rods hanging new forged flattop pistons the machine factory heads went back on the block but with new Springs guide plates studs and stainless bow the plan for today we're gonna get this Cleveland finished up get that Windsor built and then get them both off to the dyno where I've actually got a set of 4v heads coming in for this Cleveland will swap them out and actually see what happens with real results with the tolerances corrected by these bhj bushings these retrofit small-block Ford roller lifters from comp drop right into the cleveland block followed by set of their push rods and finally a set of roller rocker arms with a 1/8 173 combo we chose a single plain track heat intake manifold from trick flow with a raised plenum floor that increases flow velocity and fuel atomization at this point I want to pour in a few quarts of comps 1040 break-in oil and Prime the engine just to get our valvetrain thoroughly lose well like this Cleveland off with a Mallory HEI distributor and top off the valvetrain with a pair of tall ford racing valve covers to finish up here a set of eight millimeter Mallory wires down to the plugs that's it for the cleveland until dyno time now we're on to the Windsor now I've gone ahead and pre-fitted our Eagle stroker crank just to check for any last-minute clearance issues and we got one now even though it physically clears at high rpm and once this motor heats up it's probably gonna be enough all you need to do to fix this let's cover up your exposed journals and take a die grinder to slowly work the area and check as you go once you've got about eighty thousands clearance or you can fit a medium sized zip time between you're good to go after a jet washing we can get back to business installing this Edelbrock Rolling Thunder hydraulic roller it's the same one they use in their 347 stroker crate engine that makes over 500 horsepower we'll keep our in place stable with this new cam plate made out of bronze with that new cam and the four inch stroke of this Eagle crank we should beat that five hundred number and after torque and ARP studs to 110 foot pounds we can sync the two together with this Edelbrock double roller time and said well John degrees the cam I got to show you something we got in store Edelbrock makes a top-end kit that boasts right up to the Whizzer that essentially turns it into a cleaver you'll see more of it later but in order for it to make room for these larger canid cleveland valves well we have to have a different piston design like this one from pro now the dish has valve reliefs for big inch counts uses floating pins and we've loaded ours with rings Molly rings that is from Summit that measure one sixteenth one sixteenth and three sixteen combined with the 6.2 length HB rod and our new heads will end up with a ten to one compression ratio complemented by an Edelbrock timing chain cover and ATI super dapper balancer and when we get back we'll go ahead and finish up this bottom in and officially make this thing a cleave or [Music] we're back to finish our 351 Windsor soon to be a cleaver the next step is to verify 0 at top dead center against our new timing pointer that also came from ATI for oil supply we're using a drive shaft from ARP in conjunction with a basic part store oil pump followed by a pickup from Ford Racing it's designed to work for the 351 oil pan they sent us and this completes the bottom in where the top end will start with these retrofit Edelbrock hydraulic roller lifters after a set of Kemetic multi-layer steel gaskets will be ready for those Edelbrock cleaver heads and they're ready to go right out of the box now just like the original Cleveland's these have a bigger set of valves and takes on these or 2o 50 and the exhausts are inch 600 combined with a 60 cc combustion chamber so with our dish Pistons we're looking at a 10 to 1 compression ratio they also come with a boss 302 type adjustable 7/16 stud and guide plate setup after a three stage torque sequence we can drop in the push rods and then install a set of roller rocker arms now just like the cleveland this is a 173 1/8 combo remember during the teardown we showed you how water exited the block from the cleveland and exited the intake from the Windsor now back before my time it took a lot of machining and welding to get this combination to work right now what Edelbrock's done to fix that is gone ahead and tied it into the water ports here in the head which lines up with this hole on the intake connecting the two water passages and the cylinder heads now allowing all our hot water to dump out the front now this motor will move water through just like another Windsor of course it's cast with a shattered bore carburetor pack with that handle we can now boat down our valve covers and drop in our distributor this time an excel street billet and instead of their eight millimeter wires now the Windsor turned cleaver is Dino ready before any testing though let's look at the changes we made to these famous words for the Cleveland stroke and rod lengths are the same as factory the cylinders were bored 30 over and we upgraded to a roller cam with more lift and duration for intake we went from a cast-iron dual plane to aluminum single plane and from a two to four barrel carburetor displacements just over Factory at 357 cubic inches now for the Windsor we upgraded it to a ten to one compression gave it a fully forged bottom end a more aggressive streetable roller camshaft aluminum heads along with a dual plane intake now all this plus a lot more equals a 408 cubic inch cleaver we'll burn some fuel in both engines on the dyno next so far we've showed you what you need to know about the differences in Cleveland's and Windsor's now it's time to show you what our modify Cleveland does on the dyno and see if John's new psychiatrist does any good Joe anyway we're going to cool our 350 ones with the mechanical water pump and since exhaust out a pair of hooker long tube headers and feet of 93 octane through a demon 750 CFM car like our first runs with a smaller to be heads which in laymen terms stands for two barrel carburetor before we switch to the four V's or four barrel heads waiting outside the door [Music] after a warm-up and setting the Dinos RPM sweep to 6 grand we made a 386 horsepower run right out of the gate the follow-up run same identical horsepower with a little more torque at 397 foot-pounds [Applause] finally our best horsepower pull of the series 390 now that swap we've been waiting for the four V's have a much larger intake runner get this by 30% the same goes for the valves 6.4 percent larger on the intake 3.5 percent larger on the exhaust everything else stays the same the carburetor intake to the headers there's good temps of oil pressure three to six [Music] all right we got 378 385 we're down on power down on torque torque is down about 10 from our 2v heads yep with the oil back up to temperature along with the heads we should see a few more horsepower [Music] 387 385 come up a little bit now let's see where we at on time it looks like 34 degrees all right now I'm going to put degree degree and a half into it we'll see where it goes so goes backwards we'll come back out 33 let's do it I think it's gonna like it with that big head I knew that increase will put us at 36 degrees we're peaking at 5500 RPM consistent 387 horsepower and 390 foot pounds is as good as it's gonna get that's it 2v for the street I take it this bright line here is our 2v torque curve now I'm going to bring up the 4v torque curve and you can see that the 2v outperform the 4v all the way up to about 4700 rpm from there the 4v took over but then drop back off to finish out the RPM range this bright green line is our horsepower curve with our to be head the light green line is our horsepower curve with our 4v head now you can see just like with the torque the to be had outperform the 4v all the way up to about 4700 rpm the 4v then took over but dropped right back off now that shows that the 4v may be good for race but the two V's the one for the street after a quick engine swap we can fire up the cleave or set initial timing at 32 degrees add just the carb floats and curb idle a bit warm it up and run it from 3 grand to 5,500 remember this engine was built with torque as the priority it worked 500 foot pounds of torque at 3,800 445 horsepower and 5,000 and that's our first poll to finally make I give you one that makes 500 we make it 500 today now for the challenge how much horsepower can we tune for without lose important there's a sweet spot in there somewhere let the hunt begin do you tell those things making big tour down low with the way it loads up on the frame 452 484 that's seven more horsepower at the cost of 16 foot-pounds of torque we'll see what small increases in timing will do 458 horsepower 489 torque a slight in almost equal game you're still good it did not like two degrees it actually leaned out a little bit from the 32 to the 34 room maybe it just wants fuel more timing is not getting us there back into 30 okay let's see what direction is that's 2 degrees less than the initial run [Music] Bobbo to get to 500 220 pounds of torque at 3900 hold these flows made 468 on power at 54 so we got the torque back and found 23 more horsepower awesome little motor job cool thanks man today we proved that the two V and the four V heads both have their purpose the two vie for the street the four V for high performance race engines now they both had comparable horsepower and torque numbers and that's because we never saw the full potential of the four V's that's because this engine was built for the street had a mild camshaft mild compression and we only turned at 6000 rpm so unless you plan to build a Cleveland with high compression a big camshaft and you're going to turn it 75 to 8,500 rpm the two V's are the way to go now the cleave or will it pack quite a bit more punch and that was all kind of thanks to a little bit bigger camshaft aluminum heads as well as that for net stroke now the idle quality was absolutely perfect and we had over 500 foot pounds of torque out of this thing with this little dual plane intake things like vacuum overall drivability and throttle response well they're not gonna be a problem at all and the best part is they ran great today they would look even better inside a new car you're watching horsepower for a DVD copy of this episode just go to power block tv.com and order your copy for just 595 plus shipping and handling start your own horse power collection delivered right to your door from the power block if you want your big or small block to be a real performer well here's the carb you should mount on it it's Edelbrock Performer series 750 CFM square flange with a manual choke finish is available or vintage like this or the new black powder coat how cool is that now both feature timed in full vacuum ports for ignition Vance single in the fuel lines and they work well with performer rpm rpm air gap even torque or two intake manifold the price well 285 for the satin finish about 430 for the black powder coat but if you're out for a true vintage look with dyno proven performance Edelbrock ninety polar carb is the bee's knees as they used to say these made in the USA mixers are perfect for your numbers matching hot rod or restoration ride giving you the looks and performance you want they have diecast bowls and air horns plus a three boat aluminum base the shaft is extended so it works with any dual or three carb combo all for about 350 bucks we all love to have cool new tools in the shop especially when one has as many uses is this easy puller from Las Vegas tools calm now you 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Channel: POWERNATION

Views: 1,653,285

Keywords: ford cleveland, ford clevor, ford windsor, engine dyno, Automotive;, Cars;, Vehicles;, How-To;, Auto, News;, Howto;, How, To;, DIY;, Car, Tips, ford 351, ford windsor engine, powernation, 351 Small Block, dyno shootout, Windsor vs Cleveland

Id: 0pLbKCBLXqk

Length: 17min 16sec (1036 seconds)

Published: Thu Nov 07 2019