2020 Corvette C8 | Knock Off Super Car?

[Music] the corvette has a long and storied history filled with both its triumphs and failures it has been a working-class hero for millions in the age of spec sheet racing and internet click bait the 2020 the c8 is now a mid-engine reboot from an iconic sports car is the vet a supercar or just another knockoff [Music] [Music] wow [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] making a c8 corvette video is complicated this would not be possible without the help of autobahn country club in joliet illinois extreme experience in chicago and omaze.com if you're even remotely interested in owning a 2020 chevrolet c8 corvette with a z51 package might be hard to do but you might have a better chance at potentially winning one by going to omaze.com savage geese part of your donation will help to fund ucla medical center's emergency services department which helped to save the life of the founder of omaze and the editor-in-chief of donut media now head over to omaze.com again to potentially win the z51 package c8 chevrolet corvette enjoy the video the 2020 c8 corvette now if you're coming from a c7 like me you're going to be blown away by this cabin hell if you're coming from any car you're gonna be blown away by this cabin it is extremely impressive gm has in many ways reach their mountaintop this is the nicest interior they've done in the last 30 years now let's talk about the engineering before we get into the ergonomics and electronics so what gm has accomplished with the c8 is they've increased the size of the passenger cell when compared to the c7 what that directly translates to the end user is you now have an extra inch of legroom and nine degrees extra recline angle so they've no pun intended widen the buying demographic of who can afford this vehicle when talking about the interior electronics of the c8 it's worth once again mentioning that they've effectively lowered the entire belt line of this vehicle dramatically increasing outward or frontward visibility however due to the giant v8 sitting back there you don't have a lot of rearward visibility so what they've done to remedy that in the 2lt and higher trim levels is they've added a digital backup camera the digital display slash dash in front of you is still configurable based on the drive mode you're in and you still have a heads-up display both have been updated as you're expecting to have higher resolution and they are faster reacting the seats as well when talking about interior comfort are a huge step up from what you found in the c7 these are the gt2 seats so the equivalent of the touring seats down in the prior generation car and they are a dramatic improvement they're still heated and cooled but they hold you in way better they don't have a weird lumpiness to them and they don't break down after long drives so with that let's head to the shop and talk turkey about the technical side of this vehicle underneath the c8 corvette and from someone who is not a corvette person and i know many people aren't this is such a massive difference this is a completely new car so jack coming from a c7 looking at the c8 tell me about what they tried to do here what was the mission to make this so the design objectives of this car were entirely different than they were in this c7 the c7 was really an architecture that started in like 1997 with a c5 it was a double wishbone car front and rear with a transverse leaf springs front and back what they attempted to do with that car is turn a street car from the basically their racing program they nerfed a race car and turn it into a street car this had a much different design objective this was supposed to be a private jet for the road so they made a very capable street car that can also do track work okay so this is supposed to be more refined more complete they've also gone from front engine to mid engine and the body structure is entirely different entirely different how so how did they take and make all of this lots and lots of money and this would not exist without gm money and this would not exist if they weren't planning to utilize what's what's made this car up the c8 architecture is safe to say this thing is going to be around for a million years which is a good thing presently in 2020. so before i talk about the suspension mark let's talk about the the chassis architecture the chassis in this car is basically all aluminum it is an aluminum monocoque that looks a lot like you would you would seem like a 458 you essentially have your passenger compartment which is 25 to 30 stiffer than what was in the c7 then you have a separate structure where the lt2 motor sits yes so the engine cradle is also all aluminum a separate structure and using different technology for the stampings and everything that goes into that for rigidity this is the largest amount of die-cast aluminum components gm's ever used there are 20 separate die castings and instead of basically being riveted together with mig welding that's how the c7s are put together they used adhesive on this car there's something like 20 or no 80 meters of adhesive used in this vehicle so they're bonding together aluminum and this is something that had been starting this was used a long time ago and now it's becoming more mainstream so it's lighter less materials and when you look at the front end of this car now suspension like you talked about in wheel double wishbone you have coil springs now and just the knuckle design the control arm design compared to some of these bigger cars that we're looking at this looks like it would come off of a honda civic and i'm not kidding it's so small and compact they were clearly designing this to save weight while still maintaining the structural integrity of all the suspension parts they used a mix of cast and and forged parts for the front suspension but what what they got out of going to a coilover suspension versus a transverse leaf spring was more adjustability you can basically infinitely adjust the front end being a coil over system and it's a true one so if you get the z51 package with or without mag ride the height adjustment i mean these cars come adjustable from the factory which means you can corner balance a car from day one so you have camber caster tow and ride height adjustability so if you this is not supposed to be a track car yet but all the fundamental pieces are here are to build on over the course of probably like you said a 20-year life cycle or whatever suv they turn this this guy's the limit with this thing and you're gonna and that's the thing the chevy equinox c8 well that's the whole point they're not gonna from a business perspective they're not gonna spend probably a billion dollars i've heard rumors that this is the single most expensive architecture gm has ever built in the history of their entire company so you're going to see a corvette chevy trax is the point the bean counters are going to want to reuse this no matter how they can and they built the flexibility in it to repurpose certain things the next big change from the c7 is the steering rack jack so it is now column mounted the eps unit it is shorter the steering linkage is much shorter than what you found in the c7 because again being mid-engined the packaging constraints are easier to work with and it's 50 stiffer okay next is arrow as you can take a look at the underbody there's not a whole lot to see there's nothing to see but this is taking it of course if you're building a sports car supercar you want this covered so even the front control arms have a panel over them to help divert airflow from the front and you can see these little pieces here this is the lowest point of the car and they're already torn up and anything that is lower than these panels is going to drag on the ground with how low this car is now there is an optional front end lift yes and it is very impressive and as i'm sure gm marketing has already told the uh the boys and girls watching this it'll remember something like a thousand locations so when you plug in this is where i'm lifting my car it'll let you save that so it'll automatically lift when you get there it's a fairly inexpensive option which is very impressive how much is it that's like 1500 bucks the rest of the underbody here we have airflow for to the you know to the brakes there's no dust shield on the brakes and even the brake rotors and brake calipers don't look as massive as you would think and again this is all about managing heat weight where do you need to pull weight out of and where do you need to add it back so when we look at the center support tell me a little bit about those so much like the c7 the central structure of the chassis comes from this giant beam in the center so unlike what you'd find in like a ferrari or the aluminum monocoque you have giant side sills because all the strength comes from the center of this car the sills in this car could be lower for easier ingress and egress and that's really important because you look at cars like mclaren who use a carbon monocoque ferrari uses aluminum and you talked about that the way it is technically stronger to move those sills up because you're creating this 360 support so gm knew that the customer base that's getting in and out of this car does not want to be tripping over a huge sill it's a it's a major selling detractor from supercars so it's interesting that they looked at that and they knew their customer normally when we get to the back i want to get in and out not with the c8 jack there is enough here to spend an hour talking about i'm not even kidding so let's start with the suspension they made some major changes here coilover design no more leaf springs they've also changed the way you do the alignment adjustability so they got rid of eccentric bolts and now they have a threaded design they listen to the owners of the c7 if you track your c7 like i do that is a particularly large failure point the other thing to bring up with suspension design when you have a rear engine set up your weights in the back as we're about to find out is about a 40-60 split and normally when your motor is mid-engined or you know in the back of the car you have a pretty big oversteer characteristic and the typical let's call it c8 owner is a little bit older this might be their first sports car so they try to inherently neutralize the overseer characteristic by adding a little bit of understeer which we'll talk about when we get on the track segment but it is a very neutral feeling car and the car moves around you because the center of gravity is where you're sitting you're not basically in the back of the horse or in the you know the front you're in the middle of the object and this was by design at least in this this first generation car they wanted it to be very accessible to the owners that we're going to get behind the wheel of this confidence comfortable and the technology kind of takes a back seat now we're talking about it but most owners aren't going to notice all of this that all the stuff that went into it now in the back suspension to cover that you notice one thing right away it's way bigger in the back your knuckles your upper control arms and that's because you have so much weight over the rear well typically you see all of that in the front so these are just little things same thing with the belly pan underneath we have this huge aluminum skid plate the back diffuser and you'll notice that you can get right to the oil filter here this is a big thing about this car oil filter and drain plug there's only one drain plug unlike the mclarens and ferraris where you got to pull three bolts out and drain the sump you only have to pull out one drain plug now the only thing is like this owner does his own oil changes it can get a little bit messy get caught in this undershield and then you spray oil out the back of it so this is just one of those things that is still serviceable right the whole purpose of this car is they still wanted to make it moderately accessible to the key demographic of corvette buyers and then potentially introduce new ones as i mentioned in the front mark this is a z51 equipped car so this means it has the edif similar to what you'd find in the c7 which has ptm which is corvo it's performance traction management the way that works it's a clutch based diff so based upon the steering mode you're in the drive mode you're in the steering angle the throttle position the wipers are on the heat and the tires legitimately yeah it's taking all of these different computations and opening and closing the diff in the rear to maximize traction this is not a hellcat the way this car is tuned is not to slide around and do big drifts sad day for me it's about putting power down maximizing lap times and trying to get that 0 to 60 time below 3 seconds that's what they've accomplished largely due to the gear ratios in the back and we'll talk about that when we get underneath the hood i guess in the trunk and the trunk correct this does have a dual clutch this is a first for gm this is also first gm's first mid engine car since the fiero which i'll get into before we get into the drive so talk me through the pdk i mean dual clutch sorry so mark yes tremec and gm basically re-engineered a pdk they found that the porsche style dual clutch cannot hold the torque that they were expecting out of their future lt motors so they had tremec design this or alter it from an existing dual clutch that was on the market and the gt500 so how's it different from the gt500 it's on the same transmission architecture but they made some adjustments it has an eight speed versus a seven so the way this car is geared in the z51 package is first gears really really short so you can get off the line very quickly second through sixth are your track years and six through eight are your overdrives now before we talk about that jack we just got this off the bendpak lift and i was a little bit surprised at how easy this was to put on the lift aside from the ride height which is this car is so low it's nuts this is we're going to put the weight chart and the balance chart up this is the heaviest variant currently available now this is the 3lt which is the top of the line the top of the line with the z51 package it has all the bits and bobs that add weight but in the base model car is only supposed to be between 80 to 90 pounds heavier than the c7 okay so we have this we have this smc's sheet molding composites which is mostly fiberglass and a proprietary resin that they use and polyurethane to attach to the panels now they use this to reduce weight they also have a floating smc in the back and it's floating because the smc's they've developed have a density that allows them to float in water to be honest we're trying to not to go two dungeons and dragons on you but we're gonna see this car for a long long time and we're gonna talk about this more in depth when we get more of these vehicles let's get to the engine what's the highlights of this jack so this is the lt2 which is based on the lt1 so what's unique about the lt is the top end of this has been revised from the lt1 the bottom end is still largely the same it still has the same compression ratio has the same forged components as the same born stroke but because it's now mid-engined they didn't have to worry about the packaging constraints from the lt1 so the intake manifold is a great example of that again in the c7 with the lt1 they had to compact the intake manifold this the runners can be longer it can be taller they don't have any of those constraints that helps add horsepower the exhaust technology in this as well it's a four into one style equal length runners which is something you'd see on a hyper exotic car it helps with exhaust scavenging your oil system in this car and that's really what's been dramatically improved from the lt1 now has three scavenging pumps versus one and the dry sump is not remote so if you look at an lt1 on a c7 it has a remote reservoir that has to then be the oil has to be fed into the motor this is directly attached to the lt2 which is one of the reasons why you have one drain plug in the oil pan yep and their design goal was to be able to hold more than one g not lose any oil pressure in 360 degrees of movement versus just front and back any direction in theory you could drive this car upside down okay when it comes to the oiling system as well because there are three pumps it's far more effective and the heads of this motor the valve train does not have any of the blow back from before so the head has its separate oiling system from the rest of the engine when they developed this motor they only had a single engine failure versus the c7 where the lt1s were blowing up left and right when they're developing it okay so what about cooling how do they handle that that's got to be more difficult here yeah their oil cooler is much larger than it used to be and it is 25 more thermally effective i don't know how they're going to handle the four seduction variants of this car but as of now it has the same efficiency on track as the prior generation or you know it's to that same level you can run your full race sessions and theoretically not run in oil temp issues okay that's a positive sign and before we get this out on the road i'm only going to say one thing and i made a joke about it earlier the last mid-engine car was a fiero and i think as great as this is this is a supercar it really is you crash it you damage it it's gonna cost you a fortune to fix and the other part is reliability we can get enamored with the low price tag gm doesn't have the greatest history for having the most reliable things it doesn't matter and what it is equinoxes trucks the original c7s were a disaster so if you want to be an early adopter get the longest warranty you can possibly afford yeah agreed let's get this out on the road or on the track and see how it does compared to the c7 jack all right looking forward to it [Music] c8 street drive jack is this the miracle car we're about to find out mark [Music] it's brisk it's quick i wouldn't say this is like the fastest thing like i've been reading but it is nothing like a corvette i'll tell you that it doesn't remind me any corvette i've ever been in this to me and i don't mean this in a negative way is like a discount mclaren 570. okay it rides extraordinarily well it does this is the best running corvette ever not only in the firmness modes but in the comfort or street setting you'll be blown away by the ride quality yeah and this is really where this car excels as we talked about in the shop they engineered this thing to basically be a private jet on the road so you're it's low interior volume it rides well there's no weird vibration and harshness this is a gt car first and that's where this thing really excels it's not scary anymore it's not scary at all i mean it's just got a rod or the right amount of noise while granted he has this amazing exhaust system that was custom fabricated so it's unfair to judge the sound completely but in terms of the gearbox this is the biggest discussion getting rid of a manual for an automatic so let's talk about that on the street so the reason they couldn't fit the manual in the car largely is due to packaging and the fact that we didn't make a strong enough business case to general motors only 13 of total c7 sales were manual and they just said basically screw it no one's going to buy it anyway so what they've done here is they've taken the lineage of what you find in the gt500 dct from treme can put in this car as a regular automatic it's actually kind of what you're expecting it feels almost identical to the gt5 basically with one fewer gears it's very quick to react it's almost basically no difference to a pdk and the way it feels and that's that's as high of praise as you could possibly and the shift speed and everything it's not insanely fast but it's super smooth it's so smooth for the street there's minimal gear shock and it just responds so quickly to your inputs my only i don't want to say it's a complaint but it's something to bring up again what we forgot to mention this job is this is break by wire which you don't really notice on the street do you no you don't and when we take this to the track here in a couple minutes that's i think that's where you're going to see some of the problems with a break by wire system but it's a street car something you're going to drive every day yes there's some understeer in street alignment but again for the demographic who's buying this car i feel like in a lot of ways just being in here and looking at the interior and now experiencing it on the street this reminds me it's closer to like a mercedes gt car like a mercedes coupe the amg cars that's kind of the character with a little bit more refinement and i'd agree with you 100 this feels more luxury gt than a true sports car even though if you if you close your eyes and ignore the cockpit that's what it feels like yeah and unfortunately or fortunately for most people you'll never be able to reach the limits of this car and find its true handling characteristic on the street so i think now mark is that's as good as his time as you could ever ask for to head to audubon [Music] all right jack just got done with the c7 on track this is so much different feeling in the ca compared it is a entirely different driving experience obviously the dynamics of this car are much different being mid-engine versus front but from a engagement standpoint you and i have said this a lot off-camera on track to me this feels a lot like a discount mclaren mp412fc technically brilliant unbelievably fast for eight base c8 this is the beginning mark of what they're gonna do with this platform but it is a little bit numb it's numb and it it lacks a lot of character i'll be honest that it's got the same to me it feels like the mp412c and the nsx it's got that break by wire feel it's very synthetic it doesn't have a lot of road noise or connectedness it has no rawness it is just every edge has been refined but there are a few advantages the front end no longer feels as big and cumbersome granted you know there's understeer here which is by you know by design this car does have a track alignment that we're in right now from extreme before anyone brings that up yes so we're on better brake pads gyro disc rotors for better thermal capacity so it's a little bit closer in some ways to your grand sport corvette but while gm has had 15 20 years to refine the c7 or the ce6 c5 this is a first attempt and i think it's okay it's a great street car but it doesn't do a whole lot for me at this point as a fun to drive connected machine there's no taking away what they did here was a great achievement for the subsidized price tag that they're trying to sell it for if you can get it for that this is an amazing car it's just it's not a driver's car at this point it's not a track car and i'm gonna take it out on track now and go a little bit more flat out on autobahn south and kind of walk through dynamically what i'm feeling when you're you're carrying a little bit more speed than what we're doing here all right [Music] so we're setting off in the c8 on autobahn south and the extreme experience c8 this is kind of just a recon lap and the first thing you notice about this is it definitely has a soft front end on it and you got to kind of like get the front end to set because it's mid-engine and use it to work with you versus against you and it just it has a very soft like compliant feel to it it's not a car that has razor sharp reflexes and it's tuned this way on purpose it's first tendency is to understeer and with the brake pads that they put on here it's pretty competent it feels really controlled you can get into the pedal pretty deep and it's not going to lock up the abs it still feels pretty synthetic because the drive-by wire it doesn't have that really strong like hydraulic feel to it which is kind of strange if if you're used to driving any other car on the planet but the transmission makes this super easy to drive it doesn't have the rubs like a gt350 but you can still it still feels like it wants to wind out effortlessly which is really nice but yeah the this thing has terminal understeer and you can't get away from that and that's what makes this a far better street car than a track car [Music] all right i'm in the c7 grand sport just got out of the c8 the first thing you're going to notice about this car is it's far more direct the front end is far more planted and it feels more connected [Music] it's just much faster overall you can get deeper into the brakes the front end doesn't wash out as much like the tighter stuff especially you can just whip this thing in and out of it and the tail wants to move around a lot more so you got to be a little bit more careful on the throttle but it's not that big of a deal this thing is just such a joy to drive it's more honed it's more finely just kind of as good as the c7 can get as a driver's car inputs are simple just one simple input it just works with you [Music] there's a lot more confidence to push this car harder instantly it kind of sets better i can build up the speed easier the brakes are more responsive and i'm not even really going 10 10s here this is like eight or nine tenths the main thing is in the tight stuff that's where it makes the biggest difference you can jam this thing in and it doesn't like wash out you're not constantly fighting the car and that's why it's so much more fun so i guess the moral of the story is if you want more of a track car at this point the c7 is cheaper it's available there's a manual transmission and it's just more fun to drive on the [Music] track [Music] final thoughts on the c8 while others have had the opportunity and gift to go to press events to drive it or to get manufacturer support with information we've had to be way more creative which is why there's so many moving pieces here but here's the pros and cons of it this is a great street car it's one of gm's best efforts ever interior exterior and engineering it is one of the best gt cars it is a touring car it is super comfortable and it is a first generation it is a first try at a new mid-engine architecture and that is where the pros are because you know it has extreme overhead what this car could be over the course of 10 years compared to where the c7 was will be leaps and bounds better it's way better than most companies that design new sports cars from the start like the new nsx for example it's way less money but this just goes to show you what one of the largest organizations in the world they have access to a shitload of cash and capital to invest in the corvette so the best part about that is it really is a subsidized price if you could get it for what the sticker is between 60 to 80 000 you're gonna love this car and that's why the owner loves it and so many people have hyped it up but at this point the car is far too soft it is not a driver's car the front end is just has no grip to it the front end is too soft and i know at this point if i had to have a track car like we talked about the c7 grand sport was far faster way more enjoyable to drive you don't have to fight it as much and you had a manual transmission there's a little bit more rough edge there there's a little bit more connectedness that the c8 has lost in the process of refinement for the target target demographic that gm knew that was going to buy it those those buyers wanted more flash more flair more quality and more softness and that's how i would sum up the c8 now a big thanks to audubon country club who we are working with to improve our videos if you want to get a sports car it's one of the best places to take it to become a member there to experience all those offerings extreme experience in chicagoland they are a traveling circus of exotic and sports cars if you're in the market for a car and you like this gt500 and you want to go flat out in it it's hard to do that on a test drive or even get your hands on it they buy these cars so you can go out there and drive them and experience them and for me that is a huge bonus so check them out and last but not least if you would like to potentially win a c8 corvette all you have to do is donate on omaze.com savagegeese it will help us it helps them and it helps their non-for-profit organization which they represent ucla medical center thanks for watching we'll see you next video you

Channel: savagegeese

Views: 732,947

Rating: 4.8591261 out of 5

Keywords: cars, trucks, review, c8 corvette, c7 corvette, 2020 corvette, 2019 corvette, 2021 corvette review, new, chevy stingray, grand sport, z51, 3lt, 0-60, drag race, c7 vs c8, porsche, ford mustang, shelby gt500, gt350, dodge hellcat, redeye, camaro zl1, 1le, affordable supercar, sportscar, acura nsx, mclaren, ferrari, amg, M8, bmw, Lexus lc500, cargurus, autotrader, fiero, tech, android, google, apple car play, muscle cars, pony car, top 5, honda type r, subaru s209, sti

Id: t3IVYXl7uGM

Length: 32min 2sec (1922 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 24 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/White_Freckles]

Great but for that money you could get a C8 Corévette

[u/AnonCid]

I love how they brought in a grand sport c7.

When one talks about certain cars like the corvette, I think it's important to analyze it not only from the lens of a sports car but consider also how it is as the continuation of its personal history.

A great video that was a good take on this new platform. I'll never be able to attain one but I can certainly enjoy it vicariously!

[u/Rath1on]

I hear tales of the gooseman here and there. Sometimes people see him roaming the woods carrying large piles of piano black plastic. Sometimes I hear of gooseman sightings near the river accompanied by loud, provocative yodels. But of course you know you can't trust what people say. People see what they want to see.

[u/Nzash]

This car is amazing and a total steal at that price compared to the cars it can compete with, but personally... numbers on sheets aren't everything. I just love the long hood style of previous Corvettes, so going mid engine isn't quite my thing.

I fully acknowledge how great of an achievement the C8 is at that price (and the Z06 will be even crazier), I just can't bring myself to be in love with it as much as I love C5 to C7 (C6 being my favorite).

[u/inter_mittent]

“This car was designed for an older driver, and this is likely their first mid-engine car.” There is something like this statement in almost every review of this car. What I don’t understand is that this implies that younger drivers are more likely to have mid-engine car experience, or somehow have an innate idea of how to handle it imbedded in their DNA that dissolves as they age. Are cheap mid-engine cars just lying around for younger drivers to try? Is a 35 yo more likely to have the experience than a 55 yo? It just doesn’t make sense.

I think the idea is that they expect to sell far more units, and the car will be driven many more miles than a typical Ferrari, McLaren or Lotus – and they understand that the compromises of a typical mid-engine car need to be minimized to achieve this. This is far more likely to be a daily driver than proper exotics, and if they weren’t addressed most people of any age would quickly get tired of it. Also, is the demographic of a typical Ferrari buyer younger than a Corvette buyer? Maybe but I doubt it

[u/dabocx]

I have seen a few in person and got lucky to see one next to the wide-bodied C7 Grand sport with the aero pack. Honestly as crazy as it is I think I would take the C7.

The c8 looks good from certain angles, generic from others but terrible from the back. Performance wise its obviously a step above.

[u/AudiQuattroZoomZoom]

I've been getting into SavageGeese recently and I regret not getting into him earlier. Great reviewers!

I'm a mid engine is best engine guy and I'm not a Corvette guy but I've been of the opinion that C8>C7 in terms of driving experience. But this review is making me rethink that. Other reviewers have talked about the C8 being more comfortable and more understeery but I don't really remember anyone talking about how much more numb this is than the C7. I know GM did it for their demographic but from an enthusiast POV, its weird to go mid engine but then make the car GT-oriented

[u/aybrah]

What a great video. The technical breakdown in particular really highlighted to me how much GM invested in this new platform. Gotta admit that I hadn't quite appreciated that fully.

I'm sure there will be some discussion on track times. Some bigger publications (car and driver, motor trend) reported the C8 being faster in track tests. Whereas I'm seeing many others reporting the C7 being faster. (this review included) In the end, it probably comes down to factors like tires, familiarity/confidence with the car, the track, etc. I think it would be fair to say they're both very fast--but that the C8, at this point, probably isn't a big improvement in track times for most. Curious to hear people's thoughts on this.

I hate to be a purist but the C8 just doesn't capture my imagination the same way a C7 does. Particularly in aesthetics. I can totally acknowledge the C8 looks great--but it looks great in a generic way. It reminds me of brand-less super car i'd see while playing Grand Theft Auto. This might be unfair. After all, the C7 has the benefit of having many generations before it to create an identity and evolution around it's design (for better or worse). You know it's a Corvette from the moment you see it. The C8 is an entirely new platform and doesn't have that benefit yet. Regardless, I can't really change my gut reaction.

What I can say is that I applaud GM for making this car. I can't wait until they start shipping it used from the factory at ~30k so my poor ass can afford it.

[u/zillah1985]

The Grand Sport version of this is what I am going to wait for.