10 Big Statements LDS Make That Trip Christians Up

but no one tittle the smallest little Hebrew characters are ever going to be lost from the law until all these things be fulfilled Jesus had a very high view of the preservation of God's Word and if we are calling ourselves disciples of Jesus Christ followers of him then we got to believe like he believed right whether we understand all of what's going on here with the Scriptures or not we got to believe at least that this is the Word of God now this has been demonstrated for us we just don't accept this just merely because it's just nice to believe all right I mean God said it I believe it not settles it well that's really not quite helpful for those of us that don't really believe it so let me give you a story of the Dead Sea Scrolls you have heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls these scrolls were Hebrew scrolls that were found in a cave of Qumran and Israel back in 1947 they date to would have a date to about 250 BC around the time of the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament now before the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered the oldest Hebrew manuscripts that we had were the Masoretic text in the ninth century AD all right now the Masoretic text were the text of the Hebrews that inserted the vowels into the Hebrew because the Hebrew originally didn't have that vowels just all consonants all right now get this you have a time stand here of about a thousand years right right around a thousand years now let's say I whisper something in Ron's ear okay and then Ron whispers something in case ear you see where I'm going with this and Keith whispers something in Anne's ear and an whispers it's something in what's your name Ryan's here okay and it goes around the room and it finally gets back to Jeff and Jeff says something completely different than what I heard in Ron's ear right I mean that's just natural okay but what is going on here with the Dead Sea scrolls and the Masoretic text is something that I would say is super natural you know where I'm going with this because because as Gleeson Archer said when you're looking just at one book The Book of Isaiah it is he's an Old Testament scholar good Old Testament scholar said that the Dead Sea Scrolls is virtually identical with the Masoretic text in about it's it's about 95 percent the same that five percent has to do with spelling grammatical changes but it doesn't change the content behind the statements so everybody following that so we have good reason to believe what Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away all right so we give this as an reason to skeptics particularly in this case Mormons who doubt the Word of God because they think that the Bible has been mistranslated the articles of faith 8 says that we believe in the Bible insofar as it's translated correctly what that means in practical language is every time we don't know how to answer a problem with the Bible we just say is mistranslated all right well look we have good reason not to believe all that stuff LDS have a serious credibility problem in their understanding with the Bible let me give you a perk example of this the Joseph Smith translation that jst that's footnoted in their own Bibles jst or also known as the inspired version has a rework in Genesis chapter 50 in Genesis chapter 50 Joseph Smith sticks in a prophecy of himself to gain credibility with his followers look you know what there is not one Hebrew manuscript anywhere in existence that has this prophecy of Joseph Smith in it it's not there okay so LDS have a serious credibility problem why in the world would we believe that this prophecy was originally there in the Hebrew Scriptures they don't know all they could say well this is God's church and we have a good feeling about it and we'll get to that all right let's go on here look feel feel free if you have comments questions yeah and I'm not going to take too many of them it's we're under time but let's take one yes mm-hmm and you can imagine that that affects the meaning yes yes after the apostles that's right yeah that's good another version that I just heard of this last night from some kid and I know that you've heard this as well as well how how can how can we trust the Bible to be the Word of God when there are all these different versions of it all right well I said look you have an English version you have a Spanish version you have a French version you may have a southern hick version you see you have all these ways of describing the same content okay so just because you have different versions doesn't mean that you have different meanings is that clear to you okay yeah that's right the Book of Mormon has a lot of versions to it so it's just silly okay okay good oh yeah yeah another help well we'll look at this next it in another point like that related okay number nine the Bible is clear that faith without works is dead so obviously works are required for salvation here is the statement that I like to give from John Calvin John Calvin said faith alone saves but the faith that saves is never alone right so of course genuine faith by itself is going to transform a person's hearts and from that heart is going to flow the good works that testify to our Father who is in heaven I mean that should be obvious enough now Joseph Smith had a problem with Romans chapter 4 verse 5 right Romans 4 verse 5 says that for but to him that worketh not thank you to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth Lee his faith is counted for righteousness Joseph Smith had a big time problem with that so in his inspired version he put in the term not so God justifies not the ungodly so you have to fix yourselves up to be godly and then God will justify you Romans 11:6 says this if it is by grace it's no longer of works otherwise Grace's and grace very clear Ephesians 2:8 9 says for by grace you've been saved through faith not of yourselves it is a gift of God not a result of works that you should boast for we are his workmanship were created in jesus christ for good works so of course we want to do good works we're not saying go live like the devil wait no of course not we want people to live like Jesus but what we are saying if you want to be made right before God and have all your sins past present and future covered by the blood of Jesus Christ Jesus will do this for you right now apart from any works whatsoever he will give you a new heart he will make you born again so that you have new desires your desires now are to go out and follow Jesus and make him famous not yourself not your self exaltation he must increase we must decrease as John the Baptist put it first John 5 says this is the record that God has given to us eternal life he who has the son has eternal life he that has not the Son of God has not eternal life these things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God in order that you may know that you have eternal life every one of us here should know that we have eternal life why because we've done all that we can do as second Nephi 2523 says he did all that you can do the Lord Jesus Christ sits by his merit alone that we have right standing before the Father now so when James and James 2:17 says so you see that we are saved by not just by faith but but but that we are justified it says not just by faith but by works in verse 24 that justification there you need to know this is a different justification from what Paul was talking about in Romans 11:6 or excuse me in Romans 4:5 okay in Romans 4:5 that justification is a right standing before God an act of genuine faith apart from any works whatsoever so what is the justification going on in what what is that in James chapter 2 verse 24 here again you need to flesh out the different senses okay otherwise if you don't it appears to be contradictory right okay so the justification that is mentioned in James 2 chapter 2 is better understood as a vindication a vindication something that proves itself it proves to everyone what has actually happened to us in the inside that we have been made born again through a genuine faith not a phony faith it's a genuine faith that goes out and expresses itself through acts of righteousness all right that should be pretty clear after Keith's talk the other day right okay justified by interesting Wow interesting okay let's move on here next eight Jesus is Lord and the son of God so of course Mormons are Christian after all they're the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints now suppose forget everything you know about me and I were to come here today and tell you look I have got good news for you guys I really turn out to be a prophet of the Lord yeah and I want to tell you that Jesus is here today and I want you to follow me as the prophet of our Lord as we all follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ now our individuals Christian who believe that Obama is our Lord he's the son of God and they call their church the Church of Jesus Christ The Anointed One now that's nuts right you guys are all laughing because you know it's nuts well it is just as nutty I think to believe what Joseph Smith in the Mormon Church teach about Jesus Christ just as nutty Jesus said in Matthew 24:24 to beware in the last days of false Christ's all right and false prophets who come on 8:24 believe that I am you will die in your sin knowledge of Jesus Christ is critical he said in John chapter 17 verse 3 here is eternal life that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent 2nd Corinthians 11:3 54 says to beware of those who come and teach another Jesus another spirit another gospel than that which you've already received for such are false apostles masquerading themselves as apostles of Christ therein is according to their works Walter Martin put this this way you know Walter Martin you know who ain't canta graf is the band well Walter Martin was his predecessor he started the Bible answer man radio program and he started the Christian Research Institute he wrote a standard textbook on the cults that has been reworked and revised and updated even after his death in 1989 called the kingdom of the cults he was very famous for make this statement you can be right in every area of doctrine but if you're wrong on who God is you were wrong enough to lose your soul for eternity remember this you could be right in every area of doctrine but if you are wrong on who God is you are wrong enough to lose your soul for eternity all right let's go on next Jesus Christ created all things under the direction of the Father you guys seen this statue before North visitors center of Salt Lake huge statue they put on this audio presentation for you and what comes out of this Jesus's mouth I am Jesus Christ I created the heavens and the earth and all things that in them are pretty good so your average Christian walks away thinking I guess the Mormons are Christian right they believe that Jesus Christ created everything well is that really right is that really true I mean this is a quote this statement that they start out from 3rd Nephi 3rd Nephi I'm Jesus Christ I create all things in the heavens and the earth hmm what things do we know that the Mormon Jesus did not create okay I know you know okay Edie what's that he he did not create matter why because matter is eternal in Mormonism okay what else didn't Jesus create spirit children we were all spirit children of heavenly parents according to Mormonism all right so jesus being our elder brother did not create his younger brothers and sisters right Lucifer was also among the heavenly children of God these spirit children obviously Jesus did not create his own brother Lucifer okay Jesus did not create his spirit diapers right he didn't create his spirit crib he didn't create his the planet that he was born on as a spirit child he didn't create his spirit grandfather's world okay so there is a lot out there that the Mormon Jesus did not create but Colossians chapter 1 verses 13 through 18 says something quite different it says for by the son we're all things created whether they be in heaven or on earth whether it be Thrones dominions principalities or powers all things were created by him and for him so if we were created in heaven we were created there by none other than Jesus the son he is not your elder brother in a pre earth life he is our Creator God over all blessed forever as Paul said in Romans 9:5 now anything less than Jesus literally creating everything outside his own being D values Jesus it D values Jesus it D values from being the greatest being conceivable you can't even think of anything bigger than our God you can sure think of something bigger than the Mormon Jesus because the Jesus of the Bible is the one who created literally everything outside himself he created all the world's not just some of the world's alright so he died he didn't create worlds without number as the Mormon scriptures say he created all the worlds because he is the one who everything is held together by all right let's go on sorry about that that would that would be the Christian response if Jesus was our elder brother in the pre year of life and how could he have created everything okay LDS statement six we are made in the image of God therefore God must have a body of flesh and bones first response this is in two parts here why assume that we are in the physical image of God rather than the spiritual image of God okay well what's a spiritual image the spiritual image is that which is not physical that has to do with rationality that has to do with love feelings maybe alright these things are all non-physical things so why can't we be simply created in the spiritual image of God rather than the physical image the second we're in God's image but not as nature this is very important for you guys to throw back at the Mormons yes we are in the image of God what image that is you haven't proved to me well one way or the other but whatever image we are in I know that we are not in the nature of God now let's talk about the first response why why do LDS assume that we are in the physical image of God I have this given to me over and over again there shouldn't be any surprise to you all right because Joseph Smith had an appearance of God the Father pointing to his son the Lord Jesus Christ they were they appeared to Joseph Smith as separate human beings like we are all here separate human beings at the bat Mormons will also go to the baptism of Jesus there you have the father's voice out of heaven saying behold this is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased you have Jesus being baptized you have the Holy Ghost descending in the bodily form of a dove so obviously they they have physicality to them okay so we must be made in their image well what's the problems here look there's a difference between God's appearances to man God's appearances and God's nature or God's reality you take you put a stick in a sick in water what how does it appear to you it appears bends right now you you and I both know as an act of rational intuition that the stick doesn't magically become bent once it's placed in water all right okay so appearances are one thing reality is another God can appear any way he wants to because he's omnipotent but that doesn't mean that is what he is in his nature let me break this down for you even more simply the Holy Ghost at the baptism of Jesus descended Luke says in the bodily form of a dove ask your Mormon friend is the Holy Ghost really a dove hmm no of course not it is an appearance that the Holy Ghost can take on to show himself but that doesn't mean that the Holy Ghost is a bird okay so just because we God might appear as men doesn't mean he is a man so I make cest you everybody on board here okay now the other thing I would say is I would go through certain Bible passages for example first Kings 8:27 says the heaven of heavens can't even contain you let alone this house that is built for you in Mormonism it seems that God can be contained in the house because he's of a certain stature he has physical properties to his nature but the Bible seems to indicate that he is as we sung earlier uncontainable Hosea 11 9 says that whatever God's nature is it is not man behold I am God the Holy One in the midst of thee not man he's not look there's no qualification there in the Hebrew no qualification at all so he's not a mere man he's not a so-so man okay he's not a womb man right he's not an exalted man he's not a man of any sorts God is a being of a totally different nature his being is such that he created as Genesis 1:1 says the heavens and the earth in the beginning since God is the creator of literally everything outside himself has the picture of the baptism of Jesus the Holy Ghost there you see the Holy Ghost being a done is all he goes really enough no these are just symbols that God uses to show himself okay but since God is the creator of all things outside himself the mid for example the middle material universe God is not limited to a body of flesh and bones he is the creator of matter he is not subject to matter he does not need a body or anything else to operate anywhere in all of creation why because he's all-powerful because he's all-powerful and as such he can take up any form or nature he wants and not be limited to that nature since God doesn't have a body of flesh and bones as God well then what kind of image was must we be made in the spiritual image not a physical image okay does that clear to you guys all right let's move on now this next point is related and that is LDS a we are all children of God so of course we must all be of the same species or nature as God Christian response why assume that we are all children by literal beginning rather than of creation you see this picture here this guy is you see that right there that is a statue that he is creating of this particular person right he is not beginning the statue he is creating the statue there is a fundamental difference that is that is pointed out in the Creed's that we believe in the difference between making and beginning and CS Lewis had a whole chapter of this and mere christianity he said this what God begets is God just as what man baguettes is man what God creates is not God just as what man makes is not man that is why men are not the sons of God in the sense the Christ is they may be like God in certain ways but they are not things of the same kind species nature they are more like statues or pictures of God do you see this I was doing this with the LDS gal the other the other night trying to help her see that we are children of God by creation not by begetting and I said okay let's say I got a statue out here and I'm making this statue in the in the perfect image of you now is this you know of course not it's a rock that's been chiseled out to look like you but it's not human it doesn't have our nature it's a rock okay so for CS Lewis as well as the Creed's as well as all of traditional Christianity whether whatever branch Catholic Protestant or Orthodox or traditional branches of Christianity there is how many begotten sons of God literally speaking one nice ear one out there very good the Greek term for only-begotten is the term mono ganesh mono means one ganesh means kind species nature genus one-of-a-kind jesus' he is the only one that has the nature of God from eternity if you're going to have the nature of God you've got to be eternally God because the God of the Bible has been eternally God Psalms 90 verse 2 says before the mountains were brought forth or anything from everlasting to everlasting you have been is that what it says no it says you have been God not that you just simply existed but you've existed as okay and so if you're gonna have the nature of God you must also be eternally God and that's what the son of God is or God the Son he has the very nature of God all right so any references to us being begotten children must be understood like Paul does saying that we are the offspring of God in Acts chapter 17 those passages must be taken not literally but figuratively because God is the creator of literally everything outside himself all right everybody okay with that okay let's go on here three well not three for the Father Son and Holy Spirit are one God in purpose not being since Jesus praise to his father response why can't a being made up of different albeit inseparable persons taught to each other what's the problem here because we have in nature all sorts of examples of means that are have different different nests to them this is Abby and Brittany Hensel very famous conjoined twins two arms two legs now look I'm not saying that God is bodily and that he has two heads right or three heads and if you you're missing the point if that's what you think I'm saying okay because as I've already stated God is the creator of the physical he's not physical so he doesn't he doesn't have heads okay but what I'm trying to get you to see is that there can be an in in separate II and yet a distinction all at the same time within the same being say so I mean okay so LDS might say well you know Jesus doesn't have multiple heads when he was praying to somebody else all right well that's when the Christian says well true but why can't the Creator eternally exists in three different but inseparable beings or persons and then one of those persons namely in this case the son just happens to create a different type of thing and appearance alright to show up and that's the difference between an attachment and the hard drive attachments aren't the hard drive you get that attachments Express or show the hard drive so why can't God in His infinite being in one of the persons that make himself up wire to itself himself another type of thing like a man nature why couldn't God do that I think that's perfectly plausible and I think that's what the scripture teaches now even if this even if this isn't impossible then pointing to the different type of a different type of thing praying to one of the persons of God doesn't prove that the persons are separate gods okay because again you have in nature things like this in another lecture I have a picture of a three-headed turtle so you have you have a being but yet within the being you have a distinction not a separateness but a distinction Father Son and Holy Spirit is the analogy all right now let's go on three there is only one God for us all other true gods are for other worlds I hear this over and over and over again for us parishioner response the Christian God is so much more infinitely powerful than the LDS God the Christian God is the greatest conceivable being so He is God for literally everything outside himself so you want to walk the LDS person through these Isaiah passages in particularly Isaiah chapter 14 verses 12 through 26 who has instructed the Spirit of the Lord or been his counselor who have taught him isaiah 40:3 verse 10 before me there is no god formed neither shall there be any after me Isaiah 44 verse 6 I am the first I am the last besides me there is no God verse 8 is there a God beside me yea there is no God I don't know of any other God verse 24 I am Lord who make of all things who stretched forth the heavens alone who spread by the earth by myself now if that's true how can the Book of Abraham be true in chapters five four and five when the Lord says let us go down and they went down at the beginning that is the gods and organize the heavens in the air the God said let there be light and there was light the gods comprehended the light the gods ordered the expanse the gods the gods the gods the gods all the way throughout abraham's chapters four and five verse 24 of chapter 44 of Isaiah says that God did it alone right so why why doesn't this God know of these other gods they are out there that are doing this creation work there is not one hint throughout the Bible of an LDS interpretation you're not going to get it and there is no one throughout the history of the church whether it be the apostles whether it be the patristic s-- whether it be the medieval Zoar or those in the Reformation that have held the LDS view here so LDS Mormons have the burden of proof they need to show us why we should believe this and this is where they go back to the witness of the Spirit see for Mormons religion really isn't a thing of the mind oh it is somewhat but not primarily primarily it's a thing of the heart and if God bears witness to your spirit then that's all that really matters so there's a difference between the internal witness of the spirit and external evidence and so you asked the LDS person for external evidences to confirm this internal evidence of the spirit and this is where LDS throw out these just lame biblical arguments to you and these should be easy enough for you to see through for example they'll throw out first Corinthians 8:6 there are Lords many and gods many so of course there's only one God for us the passage goes on to say the problem is is that Paul says at the beginning of the chapter and verse 1 now concerning things of what idols so of course there are all sorts of idols out there but to us there is only one God I mean it's just if Joseph Smith said in the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith in the history of the church she said Paul had no allusion to the heathen gods in the text it's try reading the passage over again you say I mean what can you do I mean I just find out it to be a lame attempt to justify their interpretation of the Bible so LDS go to well we're happy it works for us you guys seen the South Park episode on Mormonism you know remember at the end after totally destroying his faith he says what well you know I mean we believe Allah he things I grant that but at the end of the day we're happy we have good families that works for us well yeah okay I'm glad you're happy it works for you but there are a lot of happy people out there and other religions that have good families and get along in society and they think that they're following the Lord too so why should I believe you over them well that's where you just have to go and pray about it and get a good feeling for yourself so you can know well the Bible doesn't give us that sort of epistemology all right the Bible in the Bible your feelings must be constrained by the Word of God all right and so that's why the Bible says in in in the Proverbs the he who trusts is in his own heart is a fool Jesus said over and over again it is written it is written it is written the brands in Acts chapter 17 were called more noble why because they when they received the message of the Apostles they checked out and searched the scriptures to see whether these things were of God or not Paul says in Galatians chapter 1 if we or an angel from heaven give you any other gospel than that which you've already received it's to be damned you're not to listen to it and he goes over and says it again so they'll get the point so the Bible warns us over and over again about simply relying in our own feelings now another thing you might want to say to the LDS on this whole for us business is okay well who exactly is this God anyway for us right usually nine times out of ten the Mormons going to say what the father right the heavenly fathers are God for us he's the only God with whom we have to do now the problem with that is the Isaiah passages the Isaiah passages the Lord who is speaking there says it's in the in the King James it puts it all in caps right capital L capital o capital R capital D now what that tells you is that the term there is what jehovah now jehovah to almost all mormons is who Jesus okay so Jesus is speaking in these passages if it's Jesus then why doesn't Jesus know of his Heavenly Father right why doesn't he know about these other gods that in the Book of Abraham chapters four and five that are helping out and creating the heavens and the earth why doesn't Jesus he should know this and so this is where Mormons go wait a minute okay so it's not the father speaking of it's the son okay is the son so yeah it's the Godhead that's it okay there's only one Godhead for us what's a Godhead well a Godhead in Mormonism is another way of talking about God and God in this sense is talking about three separate human beings who have been exalted to a special function and that function is they rule over us so it's a team okay now note this teams a team is not a personal being would you grant that okay a team is a function it's not a personal being so do you so what Mormons are saying here here in this these Isaiah passages is well it must be that Jesus is saying something like besides us there is no other Godhead well you know I I don't get that out of the passage I'm sorry to say because the passage is speak a personal being is is speaking here okay and this personal being him okay I he doesn't know of any other God beside him it's not talking about an LDS Godhead here and I and you know what I think in the Doctrine and Covenants it's even it's even more clear like you brought up that what was that passage earlier about how I had faith alone that it just doesn't fit Mormonism well a buddy Joseph Smith is left alone in his inspire well this this is one of these passages in Doctrine and Covenants chapter section 20 verses 17 through 19 you guys need to look this up sometime because there it says that there is the only living and true God good enough but it goes on to say the only being we worship it's not it's not the only team we worship right the only God had we worship it's the only being we worship it's clear as day there anyway okay I'm having too much fun let's it's Doctrine and Covenants section 20 verses 17 through 19 all right let's look we're getting close to the end here number two jesus said to test a tree by its fruit since the LDS Church has so much good fruit it must be of God right response well I don't think the LDS Church has that good of fruit simply because the skin looks good a lot of times it looks pretty good alright you a good-looking skin on an orange for example you peel it away but it's all dry it's the doesn't tape it says it's so there's a difference here between the external and the internals and what I'm telling you is that the internal is not good with the LDS Church look any church that teaches that God had to get a wife before he can become a god it has bad fruit would you grant that okay any church detracts worship away from our God has bad fruit okay in other words he's Mormons say well he's only a God for us okay what that means is there are other gods in other worlds somewhere that are being worshipped by other people and if we grow up we can and follow everything the LDS Church requires of us we can grow up to become gods of our own world someday and populate that world with our spirit kids so that our spirit kids are not worshiping the god of this world right who are they worshiping us I mean you talk about a power trip you talk about Seth a self-exaltation Mormons have taken the cake on it this is what they're expecting throughout eternity Oh Holy Father Oh Holy Mother thank you for your goodness to us is that really what the Mormons are bargaining for that is blasphemy and I wish I had that clip to show you of the man-type pageant here about 10:35 every night Joseph Smith is surrounded by a crowd and says that the universe was created for you and that your body is of infinite value and that the most important thing I told somebody here maybe it wasn't here with somebody else it was you medicine I said you look and wait for that moment when Mormonism tells you what the most important thing is what is it it's man's exaltation into becoming God's now if that isn't blasphemy I don't know what is this is our struggle not against flesh and blood but against principalities rulers of the air those ideas that set themselves up over the knowledge of Christ in it's our job to destroy this just blasphemous thinking see if the most important thing is man's exaltation to becoming a god and your God hood requires that you attach your wagon to another worthy more member of the Mormon Church then it is no it should be of no surprise to you why Utah has either at or above the national average in divorce and it should be no surprise to you when bishops and other people counsel other people who one of the spouses is doubting the Mormon Church and doesn't want to go through the temple anymore and God forbid puts their resignation letter in and says I don't want anything to do with this stuff ever again what does the other spouse going to do well they could either repent and come to the knowledge of the only true God or they can go into oblivion they can join some other cult or they can divorce that person who is taking away from my own godhood you guys that is sick that is sick that is not when marriage is portrayed in the Bible as holy and says to the believe spouse you are required to stick with your unbelieving spouse if you're in that situation if the unbelieving spouse wants to leave then let them leave you are no longer under bondage 1st Corinthians 7 says but in nowhere does it say that you can just divorce and go ahead and work on your own exaltation you guys that is sick that is not good fruit I can go on and on talking about the good the apparent good fruit of Mormonism if you want to yeah I got a good FAQ that goes through a list of 30 so sick problems to Mormonism this is serious stuff you guys now if any of you here are Mormons I want you to understand I love you but I hate your theology I think it's sick and you need to repent of it okay alright let's go on lastly ah it's all messed up oh man I'm not getting that split soon thing I could do for this okay I've prayed about the Book of Mormon and God told me by the power of the Holy Ghost that it is true what's the Christian response yeah that's not bad okay what I like to say is and I and I hope that all of you if you love Mormons enough will read their own scriptures okay and as you're reading through their own scriptures that you ask God for wisdom and you ask him for knowledge and you ask him to guide you and protect you as you enter in to a very dangerous realm but you'll do it because the love of Christ constrains us so you'll gain credibility with your Mormon friends and family and tell them I have read The Book of Mormon I have read the Doctrine and Covenants I have read the pearl of great price and I have been praying about it and I'll tell you what God told me by the power of the Holy Ghost it's false it's not of God that is very troubling to a Mormon what else are they gonna do you pray for them right but you're forcing them to get in to giving you something more than just this you're forcing them to give you external evidences of why they why they think you should become a Mormon here's the other response God already told me by the so it's in two parts okay so I've already prayed about it God told me about the power of the Holy Ghost that is not true or God already told me by the power of his word inspired by the Holy Ghost and we all have know the good reasons that we have for believing in his word that the Book of Mormon cannot be from him again Galatian says if anyone comes to give you any other gospel don't listen to it it's to be damned we know that the Book of Mormon comes along and contradicts the Bible on different occasions it's not as bad as the doctrine covering some for a great price nonetheless there are what I take to be at least definite contradictions between the Bible and the Book of Mormon for example the grace issue that we talked about second d520 523 says 4 is by grace that we are saved sounds good but it goes on to say after all we can do well that seems to contradict what Paul said in Ephesians 2:8 9 all right now there are also contradictions that I'd like to bring up with the racism issue and this is very very troubling to LDS people the Bible says the race isn't the issue you guys the issue is Christ and in him we're all one whether Jew or Greek male or female we are all one in Jesus Christ so race a black or white and it doesn't matter what matters is being in Christ in the Book of Mormon we got a different story don't we because God curses people with something really bad what's that dark skin why because he doesn't want his people to intermarry with those of dark skin who are really evil people you say and so as they repent in 3rd Nephi chapter in chapter 2 verses 14 through 16 as they repent God is merciful and he gets rid of this evil curse the curse of dark skin so you can get white skin again at least to a particular group of people again if that's not racist I don't know what is the Book of Mormon is racist Scripture if you believe these passages are true then you are a racist because you believe at one point God treated one reason race of people as superior to another race of people and that is just I find that to be morally repugnant now Mormons so give another lame argument and say well have you heard the curse of Cain would you please read the passage in Genesis for the passage never says that it's a skin color whatever it was it was not a curse so it's not the curse of Cain it was the protection of Cain so that people would see that whatever it was and go we'd better not mess with him all right and so it was a protection and there is nothing of it being passed on to his descendants as in the Book of Mormon so look would you pray I you can ask Mormon this after explaining all this hold on a sec would you pray about whether you would consider black people cursed from God or not because God's already spoken on this point would you pray about whether you can steal money from a bank hmm would you pray about that God has already given us his word on these things you guys and he has said very clearly that he is not the God of Mormonism so in conclusion I want to warn you the God of the Mormon Church is not the God of the Bible the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible the holy spirit of Mormonism is not the Holy Spirit of the Bible the gospel of Mormonism is not the glorious gospel of the Bible the profits of the Mormon Church are not in accord with the God of the Bible so let us take these things and give them to the Mormon people that we desperately want to see come to know our Lord and Savior contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the Saints as Jude 3 says don't give up I know there are a lot of headaches involved in doing this but if you love the Mormon people now if you'll take all the headaches and you'll do it and you will see some of them in heaven someday with you you will I guarantee you that but keep at it don't give up do not grow weary in well-doing the Bible says this is a part what we're doing here is a part of well doing so don't grow weary in it okay any last questions or comments Ryan you had something yeah yeah there's no indication that there's a skin color and it was something unique to him it wasn't something that was Trant Tran transferred on through pain because obviously Noah didn't have it right and ham was the son of Noah and so as a specialized cursed whatever it was but it wasn't there's no indication in there that it's treating one raised superior into another it was a punishment for his own sin yeah yeah well huh I mean that's good but the problem is then white skin is something pretty bad and black is superior to it but I see your point yeah I know I doesn't there's there's no way of knowing there right okay yeah there's only one God for us all other gods for other worlds yes yes no it cannot but that is why they go into this whole progressive revelation business and the progressive revelation business adds a whole new flavor or context to what the Bible and the Book of Mormon state about there being only one God this further context gets us to see the sense and that sense is that it when it's talking about these one God's statements these strong one God statements it should be taken in terms of a Godhead but then you have all these problems with that and particularly I think you're I think we're thinking of the same passage here in the Alma chapter 11 whereas these from says is there a god besides me Alexis no or what our a me like is these from whoever whoever doesn't marry he says no there's only one God well you can't just leave it at that because the out for the warming is well that means there's only one Godhead the problem is back in verse 24 you got to go to verse 24 where it says him God referring to God not they or it as a team would be so when you do that you got them and then you also take him the doctor into covenants 20 passage where it says only one being the only true and living God and I do yeah yeah he had the what Mormons refer to James Talmage referred to this as the divine investiture of authority okay in which he was the executor of the father's estate and so he was the representative of the Father in the Old Testament he was the god of the Old Testament the but the title page of the Book of Mormon says that Jesus Christ is the eternal God okay but anyway yeah yeah they caught oh god yes well it could like I was talking about yeah there there are I don't think it's decisive as far as being the Trinity I mean it hints at it yes that's better right and you have these hints in the Old Testament you don't have any of the hints in the Bible for the LDS interpretation of things you don't okay all right we need okay one more by Rob yes yes so they are worshiping to gods whereas Jesus said you shall only worship the Lord him alone I shall serve but that's where Mormons go well it's actually see him shut out serve you see the personal beam there again is quite different from the Godhead you shall serve because the Godhead is an impersonal team made up of personal people separate gods okay all right we need to close it here let's say quickly well I got a split sorry let's say quick prayer our Father eternal God thank you for your goodness to us today in giving us food for thought god help us to grow in knowledge of you that we might study and show ourselves approved unto you as workmen who do not need to be ashamed handling accurately the word of truth god bless us as we go to witness not only the Mormon people but everybody that we come in contact with but God create in our hearts more of a love for the Mormon people and use us in creative ways to glorify you so that we might be able to reach out to these Mormon people who desperately need you god we long to see them saved we long to see an awakening happen in Utah in this very dark land we want to see your kingdom come and your will be done in Utah as it is in heaven so God uses for that in equip us make us bold witnesses of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and it's in his name we pray amen

Channel: Aaron Shafovaloff

Views: 33,076

Rating: 4.0504451 out of 5

Keywords: manti, pageant, 2009, rob, sivulka, lds, mormon, mormonism, evangelism, latter-day, saints

Id: NwHb9R-XVxc

Length: 70min 36sec (4236 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 29 2009