【字幕】新加坡前外交部長楊榮文：中國怎樣處理與東南亞關係？ 習拜會後中美關係何去何從？ 為什麼不能得罪李光耀？《大師訪談錄》（2024-04-01）

when I was in shanto they they they serve me a a broth durian and chicken uh Tong you know I was a bit skeptical in fact horrified by the thought you don't want to be his enemy I watched the way he went after some of his opponents and no you don't want to be his opponent we should be watching NBS carefully he's doing to Saudi Arabia in a smaller way what St sing did for China really altering the qu of the country if they can stop China they will try to stop China I think it's too late how can [Music] [Music] you [Music] I remember when the framework agreement between Asian and China was signed in nonen in 202 I was there t made two remarks he said if after 10 years the agreement is too much in China's favor we will renegotiate these unheard of in trade negotiations no country does them at thought all then he added China does not seek for itself an exclusive position in cation in other words he knew the civilizations are promiscuous so a relationship with China would not lock us into an exclusive relationship China he knew the ination of instincts are to be friends with everybody with the Americans with the Japanese the Koreans with the Indians even if martians come on Earth we will be friends with martians this is the Instinct of servation to threaten nobody but if you push us too much you'll find us moving closer to your Rivals and then when you let up we let up the ties a master at this and they balance the French and the British so carefully they will never colonize but this is servious Instinct yes China may be building Indonesia's uh infrastructure but do you think Indonesia is in China's pocket never in the Malay anals which is history of Mala you know Mala grew because me China needed the St of Lea those were the days of T voyages and the early Sultans made three to four tribute missions to n all carefully recorded flattering China so China thought that they really acknowledge China as Overlord they did not to their own people what did they say now this a story from Sara malayu the Malay an it says the Chinese emperor very sick and the CT Physicians could not heal him so one day someone whispered into the emperor's ear to say look the only way you can cure your illness is to implore the suan of Lea to give you his used foot bath water and if you bathe in it you will be healed accordingly an imperial Envoy was sent blacka so sulan gain to listen to the request and finally agreed to let his used food buff water be sent to naning into which the emperor had his Evolution and was cured and since then the relations between Mala and China were very good this is how sou Asians explain their relationship with China to their own people and I tell the Chinese this in case they believe the flattery but but economically between China and C Asia the economic integration is profound this year we have reach $1 trillion more than us China trade more than China Europe trade more than us Europe trade it will continue to diverge when same time Z more or less one is dry temperate the other is wet tropical equatorial you know the durians the mark the Chinese are eating durians by the container Loops when I was shant told they they serve me a a broth durian and chicken uh pong you know I was a bit skeptical in fact horrified by the thought then gingerly tested it oh in it's quite a successful combination so I posted on my Facebook some of my Patriots back home said y you know the Chinese will experiment and they will come up with new Duran products and just as Once Upon a Time all Estates took over from rubber Estates durine Estates will take over from oil pal Estates as the Chinese market grow I it is coming and with China so cold in winter time Millions will want to own homes in the Philippines and Indonesia the way Americans flocked to Florida at first and then to the Caribbean to Mexico Europeans go down to the Mediterranean to the gulf Russians to Turkey and there'll be millions of De will southeast Asia Asians Drive China away no but what they what would they do they said no too much Chinese money you better get some American money in Japanese money in so instinctively they will want diversification everywhere along the belt and Road countries find their Chinese account growing so they they tell the Americans and Japanese please also come that's why I tell my American friends if you instead of forcing a choice and if you force the choice you won't get answer you want just smile everyone will want you in so with an economy of effort you can achieve much more with much less but right now the Americans and The Wider West they don't like the fact that for the first time in a long time others are looking them in their eyes and saying no we don't agree with you we have own values they don't like that because they're used to being Superior not in the not always in the Arrogant way although sometimes in AR arrogant way but they believe it to be a natural order of things so the Americans will come with a clipboard they say oh Malaysia 5 upon Indonesia 4 upon 10 Singapore 2 upon 10 and they go around the world of course they are 10 upon 10 today when they do that we just smile you a little testy you know they they were preaching to him so he said look you make me a 51st state and I'll do everything you ask me to do he was telling them look you don't face the consequences we do so China's rise is not a threat to America because China has no wish to invade America or to absorb America but China's rise is a threat to American dominance in the world others will look at it and say no if China can be independent we too Can Be Independent India will be independent Russia doesn't want to count out to the West in the Middle East and I'm watching we should be watching MBS carefully he's doing to Saudi Arabia in a smaller way what staing did for China really altering the qu of the country and it will have an impact on the entire world Brazil Africa I just read Liu's old friend the former president of Nigeria obas Sano Li you used to meet him and he wanted L you go to Africa L you didn't want to go to Africa so one day he said why don't you organize a semin in Singapore you call your friends over so he asked me he said J you organize it for me I did what brand did for me so I went around got to know about sanjo but lost tou of him he must be in his 90s now he said the institutions that we import from the West isn't it obvious that they do not work for Africa is said isn't it obvious because they do not fit our conditions our history our culture you know without the rest of China he wouldn't have said such a thing but because there's China now and there's India so there's also Africa and the Middle East and Brazil this multipolar world that we're entering is being born we can see it's rough shape but the West particularly the Americans are fighting it the rather not they rather it not happen if they can stop China they will try to stop China I think it's too late how can you these are ancient peoples in Asia they have been ahead of the West for many centuries why should not be able to why should they not be able to rise again they're not stupid they're not unable to organize but in this process my fear is the Americans May exhaust themselves do you have so much resources are your people so productive what do they depend on they depend on the US dollar because if I can print the dollar I can spend if I need more I just print more or borrow more but the servicing cost is going up and that's inflation and this may lead to a crisis one day with the way they're weaponizing the US dollar and the financial system there'll be Alternatives the alternative will not be the rning fee the alternative will be what the world has always been which is a multiplicity of currencies and species if you enjoy this video we invite you to extend your support by subscribing to the master inside channel so that you will never missed any future videos we will still also leave some time for Q&A from audience so I will try to make my question short and also your answer brief okay sorry um you mention about the San Francisco Summit um for me uh it's really uh quite uh astonishing you know I just come from Washington and um the atmosphere is so hostile to China I I think that we're already in the middle of the Cold War new Cold War but just think about that American president G warm welcome show respect to the head of the eneme country I mean it's quite remarkable now what surprised you the most or is any surprise at all for this meeting now this meeting uh culminated many months of hard work by both sides to put relationship on a stabl footing and to prevent a further slide in bilateral relations by met seing ping over three hours in Bali a year previously with simultaneous interpretation so it was three solid hours of communication but a little balloon came over and the whole thing got blown off course so obviously the agreement was not well anchored so this time around much more pretory work has been made and what's driving it is presidential elections in the US because if there's something wrong the global economy and they don't have China's cooperation Biden will lose Trump will come back even if all this B may still lose the 50/50 chance and we've got to work on other possibilities Singapore is a multi ethnic nation has been quite successful do you have any thing to share with us in that regard Singapore is not intelligible in itself Singapore is intelligible only as a nde in the regional Global Network so to understand Singapore you have to understand the network in which Singapore is a node with stic connections different parts of the web this is Singapore so if you try to reduce Singapore to a Kian analysis of C plus I plus G when in fact what explain is minus m not C plus I plus G so I find many analysis of Singapore limited because of the concentration of Singapore it's not intelligible in itself and the Singapore government has not that much flexibility it's got to operate within the spaces afforded it by a larger environment and and it cannot create those spaces but it can find those spaces Singapore is the government that works as many of us think and had a had a great run but as you said the world's in trans transition and as chief justice Lee said Singapore is in transition too including politically as well as in other ways what do you see going forward given multi multi-polar world and how it's developing what do you see as the two or three opportunities and and challenges for Singapore going forward it is um a world in flux uh we know China will become more important so we've got to think about opportunities in China I don't think we can compete inside China with Chinese companies but China miss the world in a million places and in those million places Singapore in some of those places Singapore can play a role between China and souis Asia between China and the West between China and and the say Chinese communities elsewhere and these opportunities will have to be discovered by the private sector so Singapore's approach like Hong Kong is to have to be rooted in multiple Civilizations for Hong Kong it is China and the world side China for Singapore it is China southeast Asia India the US Europe and if we are rooted in multiple civilizations then there are many Arbitrage opportunities for us whether it's in technology or in trade or in in in manufacturing you'll always be able to make a living by moving to the boundary because where there's a boundary there are always opportunities thank you so being a student naturally I'm very young and probably naive but I've actually looked at The Life and Times of thean U I mean I was eight when he passed away so having looked at Lin's youth life I've came across a story of Kissinger and how Kissinger said that actually when he was visiting Singapore Leon you would have meals you know me meal PL prepared so naturally we can see that Not only theanu was very forward thinking but he was also very meticulous so my question is what are some of the biggest takeaways that we can take from lean Yu's not only political but personal way of thinking and personal philosophy my sense of lianu is when he relates with a person he first thinks about the power relationship with Kissinger it is an intellectual relationship and he knows that TR Kissinger he has some influence in America and Kissinger knows that Liu has some influence in Asia and knowledge so they learn from each other and they communicated until maybe a year or two before he died regularly yeah so Liu is quite selective the people whom he cultivates he a very close relationship with Kissinger with helmet Schmidt with Jor schz uh these are his old friends uh with the Chinese leaders is always a bit more formal and he kept up his learning of Chinese in order to be able to communicate effectively with Chinese Leaders with fellow singaporeans uh you don't want to be his enemy I watch the way he went after some his opponents and no you don't want to be his opponent yeah you see we had a difficult relationship with the forign media at the F Economic Review The Economist when they circulated in Singapore we had an economic hole on them so in the end they play ball because they needed revenues but there was in L in London there was a an opet writer called Bernard Levin so he used from London to throw stones at got bit irritated we sent our replies London refused to publish so he knew the chairman of the BBC Massi told M can you give me air time to debate Bernard Le in London Bernard Le chicken out so he demolished himself by being afraid to debate Liu in London on the BBC but the did not stop there but I was with him when he was given the the key to to the freedom of London and we all putting on a white tie and had difficulty to starch collar it was already all dressed up and ready to go so I ask his assistant where's he going he's going to BBC to do what to talk about Bern 11 and how he chicken out so this was his amamos Bush before dinner see that's how impliable he can be towards his opponent but he was not atist when when his achieve his political purpose he lets go so there was a a political detainee for his rival liming he had a nous breakdown in prison and I was told Leu spoke to the doctor and asked when he was being when he was going to to Europe he said can he come back into Politics the doctor said no when you left left the issue in other words if you're no longer a political challenge there's no there's no need to to be vindictive yeah so I would say he understood power but he used power of economy

Channel: 灼見名家 Master Insight

Views: 124,235

Keywords: 灼見名家

Id: X0PjDr5E9Lc

Length: 20min 49sec (1249 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 01 2024