Which Majin Buu Is The Strongest?

without question the debate amongst which majin buu is stronger has been going on in the dragonball community for a very very long time years maybe even decades at this point and usually it's narrowed down to two versions of boo kid boo and super boo with the fusions so on this video we're going to attempt to answer this question once and for all by digging into the original Japanese source material the original manga and compare it to the anime and see if we can make any sense of this and of course Herms is here to help load Frieza demands that you subscribe to this channel and follow mr. geekdom on these social media platforms the debate between super-boo kid buu ultimate boo majin buu pure boo is a million names for these forms has been going on forever I mean it really has and the really the major problem here in figuring out which version of boo is stronger is it kind of depends on which version of the series you actually kind of lean towards but there are still some contradictions and still some things need to be explained so joining me on this video to give us a pure Japanese perspective please welcome the legendary perms oh all right I know I know that you're like Lance Lance is like hi okay so we're talking about majin buu here and Herms you and i have talked about how the VIS manga is you know a good translation but they're still you know viz isms and there are still problems with the translation I did a video blas translation covering a few of these there's too many to cover you know in videos and of course you've done a lot of them yourself but the you know it's still a decent translation however we're gonna reference the original Japanese manga which you own and you understand because you're fluent in the language both reading and speaking and as a result of that we can get a much clearer picture so I want to start first and foremost with the manga and what the manga actually states because there is a scan Latian that's been going around for years now we're old kaiô shin tells us the audience that Kid Buu or the final form of Buu you know pure Buu if you will is the you know the strongest of all the booze or the most dangerous and the word that I believe you used was Ichiban yokai but that doesn't necessarily mean strongest so I wanted you to kind of elaborate on what this actually means yes so Ichiban is just number one and then you got Chi is the key word roughly like a direct translation probably be difficult or troublesome but it's one of those words that's tricky because it depends its meaning depends a lot on the context and so in some context it can basically be equivalent to saying strong or powerful but in other context it has nothing to do with that at all so for instance when Goku is fighting king chopper back at the 22nd tournament Jackie June on the sidelines he seizes and he says I go Goku's up against quite a Ukiah opponent quite a troublesome opponent and of course in this context he's saying that Chava is a troublesome opponent because he's so powerful like it's understood from that context that he means a strong guy but then in other contexts like elder Kai Ocean he uses his word a lot so earlier he uses the same word to describe the fusion dance poses when Goku is thinking of going to perform the fusion dance with Gohan the elder Kai Xin says like well I don't think who is going to just stand around and give you the time to perform those troublesome poses he goes sa more did you bind yeah well not Ichiban but still kept car gotcha and so in that context yeah kai seems to basically mean troublesome in the sense of inconvenient and clearly nothing to do with strength so that brings us the question then is that when this same character kai oh [ __ ] elder kai shishun uses this word to refer to Kid Buu like does he need what does he mean does he mean like strong or just troublesome because of course with Kid Buu he's got that he's got a kind of a personality we're here just destroy things willy-nilly without any planning or at all and so arguably that could be what it means is it fair in your opinion because I've heard this also been tossed around the community that Kid Buu might not be the most powerful but he might be the most dangerous Ken yeah kai also be translated as dangerous or is that not the appropriate translation here and it's look it wouldn't be a literal translation but he could make the argument that that is what he means when he says troublesome just that because he's unrestrained and just because he's can't do anything at a moment's notice that that would make him dangerous but if we're just that's the thing it's like it's all that's a lot of stuff open to interpretation but I guess the bottom line is that if you look at the Japanese manga and I believe this is the same in this regard there's no single line where anybody explicit refers to kid buu as being stronger than the other force yes because the debates always been whether or not kid buu was stronger than boo with Gohan go ten trunks and piccolo absorbed or some fans call him ultimate boo because I think a lot of the fans Herms and I respect this opinion very much think it's hard to believe that Buu in his purest form could possibly be as strong as a boo that has go ten trunks piccolo and Gohan with his power unlocked which makes him ridiculously stronger I mean people have said for years that he's the strongest non fuse character you know up until the end of that arc and I would find it hard to argue that you know because we don't really see Gohan ever show any weakness except for being an idiot and not catching the Patara other than that he didn't really show any real physical weakness except for against of course the go tanks Buu which was just too much power so I think people kind of have a hard time accepting that but the problem is the anime makes it a lot more difficult for us to really you know figure out who's the strongest because there are several instances in the anime where they state that Kid Buu is stronger but yet there's also contradictions to case in point the scene where Goku is inside of majin buu when he gets absorbed with Vegeta as vegeto and he sees superb when he freaks out he gets scared that was not in the manga not exactly like that they were in there but not like that line there's like in the manga where Goku does tell Vegeta that even though they powered down by undoing his absorptions they they're still not a match and that's why they need to fuse again and that's the funny thing because then when they hop over to kaiô shin realm they decide you know to unfuse to not fuse that is and just fight him one-on-one now of course there's that whole you know martial arts you know I'm a cyanide have balls I want to fight them I don't want to fuse you know they did not want to fuse again do you see that as them thinking that Kid Buu was weaker than the booze that they experienced inside of Buu or whatever or do you see that as them under estimating Kid Buu because Vegeta does say that Kid Buu is where they had ever imagined yeah so it could be both so when you know there's a very strange scene where boot goes from he starts at super booth and he becomes extremely muscular which is the they say is the form he got from absorbing the southern Chiron yes and then for some like for some reason he goes through that form again even though he shouldn't have southern kinda shooting him at that point but whatever but when he's powering when he's bulking up Goku does say that his key is rising and then he shrinks down into Kid Buu and then Goku says like specifically like oh he's shrunk down physically he's smaller now yeah and to like look it looks like we can manage something now so it seems like he's making an assumption is what it seems like yeah so he is a suit he is assuming he could be wrong but they do it's implying that for whatever it thinks that this poof now looks weaker to round and it's interest there's no explicit line with they where they say is key has shrunk down but you could say like may well presume it's by the fact that they think he's weaker because you think that they wouldn't be stupid enough to like they won't be stupid enough to think he's weaker just because he's physically smaller even though that's the only thing they explicitly comment on but a lot of side debates we could get into so I guess we just move on but anyway so there's that line and then so it seems at first that they don't think as much of this one who as the previous ones and then they fight in a while and there's a line who said where Vegeta says that he that kid buu and Goku or was a lot stronger than he imagined and I don't think offhand I don't think there's a line where Goku correspondingly says that kid who is stronger than he imagined but there is a line where he says that he thought the fight would have gone better than it is yes I was kinda the same thing yeah yeah and then there's also the line where uh you'll Goku pretty much states later on the fight he's like you know boo has powered up in strength skill speed or whatever well unless that's only in the enemy that's only in the anime yes and that's the thing the anime makes things more confusing another line of confusion which a lot of fans are confused about they didn't read the manga and as kendama would say read the damn haaa the fight with SS to Goku and Kid Buu we're go who's doing pretty good for a little while that was a great fight beautifully animated but that fight was not in the manga at all and the manga they hop right to ss3 or he tried to it wasn't one of those things where he just fought him in two for a while that was a bonus material so again even though the fight was great we can't really count as part of Toriyama's vision of majin buu because that fight really didn't make any sense it's be real about it yeah it was cool but logically Super Saiyan 2 goku should be equal to ma Jinga jira who obviously didn't do that great against - yeah they both yet it would've got their ass kicked by by any version of bowie and fat boo now on then of course there's the line where the narrator pretty much states in the episode recap that he that Kid Buu is the purely evil absolutely most powerful ultimate Buu which is a lot of adjectives or verbs or whatever the hell those are um again we're seeing in the anime contradictions here because in the anime it's pretty much telling us that Kid Buu is the strongest and let me ask you this Herms man I think a lot of the fans just from talking to a lot of them I think they want Kid Buu to be the strongest because he's the final opponent and there's always that whole like you know final boss thing like obviously super perfect cell was stronger than perfect cell because of the Zheng Kai he got when you know when he blew himself up and of course 100% final form Frieza it's gonna be the strongest Frieza with with Buu on the other hand I think they want kid will be the strongest but there's so much evidence saying otherwise however the anime confuses you in the United States at least most casual fans and even relatively hardcore fans pretty much just watch the anime and so if the anime explicitly says repeatedly that that form is strongest then it does make sense that most people would think that I'm not it's just it's just one of those manga anime differences and of course we talked about also in the dub Goku refers to Kid Buu being twice as strong as any other boo it's another line that was not in the manga yeah it's not the manga it's not in the Japanese anime but it is a it that line where he says double it's the dubbed version of the line in the Japanese anime where Kaku says that who that kid boo several levels superior to every to any of the previous news when it comes to power speed regenerative ability and you know several other characteristics he's very thorough in listing how great this new form is yeah which which again that sounds like it's just tow a kind of trying to make you know what this is herm this is TOI trying to make the final battle more dramatic is the way I see it I mean it's the same thing with them adding in the super Sayan to fight to patent I don't want to call padding seem stronger but it is a great fight but they did just add it in to make it you know to make it better everything in the kitchen sink finale yeah which to me I think it actually I don't want to actually definitively say this but it seems like in the anime toe a really wants you to believe that Kid Buu is our strongest but let's go back to the manga there's no evidence from any everything you've told me that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu or any of the other boos I mean it seems like boo with Gohan go ten trunks and piccolo absorb ultimate boo it seems like that would be the strongest boot even though Vegeta manhandled him mat Vegeta vegeto manhandled that Buu still like that Buu and most fans will tell you that that Buu is the strongest I mean what evidence is there against that in your research yeah well I should say there is snow even selling the manga there is no line explicitly saying kyboot strongest but at the same time there's also nothing explicitly saying otherwise there's just there's no clear-cut statement on which bowie is strongest but the reason like I said the reason why I I think I think there's a difference between like people fans who just kind of watch the series and then once who are more into the whole power strength debate kind of thing yes because I think like I think most fans who are into that aspect that whole strength debate power level nitty gritty kind of stuff I think most of them would say that Super Buu is stronger and then most people who aren't into that who just probably just watch the anime or otherwise just don't really care too much about making elaborate lists of who is or isn't stronger though guys would probably mostly sink kid buu stronger if you just read the manga or watch the show it's easy to think well like the final enemy's generally the strongest so why would it be in this case and in order to see why wouldn't be kind of do have to go into the nitty-gritty of all these different lines throughout these seven volumes but anyway so the main reason so my people think super-boo stronger is that goku rips several different times he makes it clear that he's no match for Super Buu or these he doesn't think he is yeah on me first off he insists on fusing with somebody before fighting him yeah the original plan was Gohan and then and that didn't work out he was like maybe mr. Satan maybe hmm yeah and even though he's like well this could make me weaker but are risking anyway because of hey he just does not want to fight that form of Buu unfused and this is the same Goku that was confidently saying he could beat that boo and later on thought he could be Kid Buu at full power so that same Goku is now in fear yeah and then so he becomes to GTO Kosan sigh boo splits up again and then they unplug coke Gohan and piccolo and all those guys and then Buu perverts back and Goku's like guys yeah there's gotten a lot weaker and then but then he's like he tells Vegeta he better do the fusion dance before we go out because you broke the potaro and otherwise we're no match for this boot even though he's weaker so again it seems like he can't keep Goku doesn't consider himself a match for super room yes even even without the other bonus absorptions and then then turn this around and then when Kid Buu comes on the scene all then he's like well we don't need to fuse we just fight him on her own and I mean there's you could just say Goku's Inc he's just being stupid or he's just any flopping and her he should know better than to underestimate somebody due to height because not only was he super strong as a kid but Frieza was like a little runt and Frieza was really strong so he should know better than that you know yeah that's more like Vegeta saying under estimating dude which is also ironic for Vegeta cuz he's so short but yes yes exactly anyway so um yeah so overall so I do think I do think this is genuinely even going by the manga on its own since genuinely can fusing and contradictory but I think that if we stick to the manga there's less contradictions if we say super-boo stronger than kin boo and I mean I do think there's more weight like this is going to cop out but I do think there's more than one way to look at it I do think I'm not going to be like fundamentalist about which boo is stronger but I mean if I had to choose that I would say super boo and so there's the question of you can look at it as in like which version which which version gets you the least contradictions and then there's a separate question of what was Toriyama thinking what was his intentions which we're probably never going to get a clear answer on unless someone you know after all these years no one it's never come up in interviews I have to assume he just doesn't know or care at this point well not just that hers but if he gives us an answer it might be a contradiction anyways like he you know he's been doing that a lot lately in the last couple years yeah and he was he was asked at one point in visit Shonen Jump there was a short Q&A and someone asked what majin buu power level was and he gave this not specific form just in general and he gave this like incredibly vague answer where it's like it might be something that would really surprise you he has said in interviews that his opinions on his views on how where the character is related to each other in terms of strength would change a lot as he wrote the story you know I've always thought since I was a kid that the reason why Kid Buu is more dangerous you know because he's supposed to be like this um you know this pure personification of evil is because having Gohan inside of him somehow lessened his evil kind of like how when fat boo absorbed the kaiô shin so is there any validity to the theory of course as a theory that possibly would go Han being inside of him we never got to see that version of Buu as full at its full potential yeah I mean it's not explicitly stated but if you were to if you were to argue that Kid Buu was stronger I think that's the only way you could do it the oh the only way would make sense for a character with absorptions to be weaker than his own self without those absorptions would be for those absorptions to make him weaker and we are told that is what happened with the grand caption it's not entirely clear in Japanese if the kyochon also made him weaker like it seems like it made him stronger because when he powers up into the muscular form goku says is ki is rising but then there's the thing words like love one kayo shoe we condemn should the other one also weaken him but then they only they single out the grand Chiron for being kind that's it his his his and Gohan's very kind so ami it would make sense I mean speaking of absorptions and when it's so there's this the line goku says in both versions the manga and the anime where when he turns down the opportunity to use the Vitara he points out that boo is no longer fused in other words he says boos not absorbed with anyone else so it wouldn't be fair for us to fuse either since goku and vegeta are weaker in their unfused forms and by extension it would make sense for goku to be implying that boo is likewise weaker now that he doesn't have his absorptions you know universes at stake right now but he wants to make it a fair fight no don't make it up there I mean what the hell like let's it's Dragon Ball as Dragon Ball it would be even more ridiculous if it boo was stronger unfused you know in that case it would be like you know well he's unfused and stronger so we're fight him unfused and weaker like that would be a really strange definition of fair yeah that would be very strange especially since he's a demonic being that's been there since the beginning of time but we didn't know that back in 94 95 that's 9 6 yeah and I do wonder like I wonder if that line in particular is traumas way afraid of framing the final fight like he's saying these aren't the strongest characters but we've seen this from the strongest fused character vegeto versus the strongest fused bad guy so now we'll watch the unfused characters fight and that'll be our big finale yeah like so it's not the most powerful versions of the characters but it's like the purest in a martial arts sense like maybe that's tore Emma's way to piping people up through this fight I don't that makes any sense Plus don't forget there's that small sequence in the anime again just the anime where Goku and Vegeta fight Buu ultimate boo and they get their ass handed to him so I mean there's no way that that boo he has to be a lot stronger you know even though the absorptions maybe made them less dangerous you know that could be the difference I don't know the evil skinny boo the narrator says that when the original fat boo splits into good and evil that the evil boot took the majority of the power yes so presumably both of those forms are weaker than the initial fat boo the one who fights Mojang the jito yes it was I got 450 149 split maybe more maybe 6040 yeah something along those lines yeah but this is a line that was changed and Eve is manga so that's another issue piccolo says the same thing the narrator does in them in the anime piccolo says what the narrator does in the manga about them about the evil one getting the majority of the power that's right that's right that's right I remember that because I saw that I saw that fansub in ninth grade everybody check out Herms on twitter twitter.com slash Herms on the a let us know your thoughts down below folks now with this information what do you think let us know down below Thank You Herms yes today will never end but I think hopefully this will be release or informative at least we can inform them what the original source says then you can go from there Thanks we'll catch you down the road

Channel: Geekdom101

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Id: P9qmPDrI5g4

Length: 21min 50sec (1310 seconds)

Published: Fri May 13 2016