NOW what for Biden and the Dems?! | The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich

and it is the Saturday coffee clutch with yours truly and Heather Loft House hello Heather what do you think how did that that discussion last night that interview with George Stephanopoulos did that in your view calm the Democrats nerves are we going to see now a just an easy shot for Joe Biden I mean do I have to answer it in one question I mean one answer one one word it didn't could have been even better could have been worse also I do think that what I had wanted which is I think also what a lot of people out there undecided the general public might have wanted him to be more aware of how he's falling short and to kind of look in the camera and say I hear you and when they asked when George asked did you watch the debate I would have liked to him to hear him say yeah I watched it and it was crappy and I get it and instead he kepts you know doing the it was a blip and it was oneoff and look and look and I'm amazing and my successes and all that and he didn't connect and I was hoping he would connect so that people would feel more confident I agree with you I I like Joe Biden I think he's a terrific president he's been excellent in many many respects I have obviously some issues but Heather I thought he was evasive and he was in denial and denial is not just a river in Egypt uh it it it it it was shocking the extent to which he was not able to say to George Stephanopoulos uh look I I know that people are concerned and I know somebody who's over 81 who's who stutters and who pauses and who acted like I did last week you know is going to cause a lot of people with a a lot of concern and so I am going to have a neurological exam I'm going to do it tomorrow I'm going to have the results out to people immediately and uh I don't think there's any problem but I want to make sure that people agree with me and I want to make sure I'm right that would have been fabulous well you know creeping I don't know shall we call it cility for one of a better term there are better terms Fair uh you don't expect the person who has it to have the greatest judgment about where he is on that creep no that's part and parcel of the problem I mean I think it goes with it it's there's you know built-in denial and I think that's genetics or epigenetics or survival or whatever it is I mean it's part of it and I know George Stephanopoulos very well we work together in the Clinton Administration I think I think he is a very able and authentic and careful journalist I thought he asked hard questions but they were reasonable questions and repeated them and them in various times and I thought Joe Biden again I like Joe Biden I want to emphasize this and his record is I mean he spoke to look at my successes and I've done things that people didn't think I could do and they've been huge and all those things are true but he answered policy yep when it wasn't a policy question the questions are all about his capacity and it wasn't about the past it's about the future so I I guess I was kind of surprised and shocked that he did not it was not more reflective that's it uh I think the problem is that he surrounded by a small group of people I've seen this before I've worked for three presidents and I've worked for a fourth indirectly and when they get kind of into a situation where they're hunkered down where they're kind of in uh a bunker uh and the people around them there are a few number of people and they're all in a bunker together then we're in trouble they can't see anything and when uh even even when Biden say said they are trying to force me out he said that yesterday in a couple of speeches they are trying to force me out who's they who is they right so is it I mean I remember feeling like and this is me being naive and I admit when I'm naive on this podcast with you and drinking coffee I used to think there was a Democratic party with a capital D and a capital P and there were smart people and a whole bunch of ladies around the table and people knew things and they were driving the car and I was safely in the back Heather buckled Heather Heather there is no Democratic party there is a big fundraising machine that's called the Democratic party uh and then in the Republican side there's a big kind of cult you know kind of getting Crazier by the day but there are no parties any longer and I think we've got to understand that there are no adults there no sort of democratic leaders who take the Takeover and are going to be in control no uh in fact Democratic members of Congress Senators I mean they're all individual entrepreneurs they come together uh the Senators don't even know the house members if they're in the same party um but the Democratic senators uh maybe coming together a little bit to talk about this but remember they're not talking about the nation they're talking about what's going to happen to the senate or what's going to happen to the house uh if Joe Biden is on the ticket they're worried right and they're hearing from more and more constituents and more and more political operatives that the the ship is sinking so when he said they what they was he talking about I think that is the symptom of being in the bunker hunkering down and not getting good information right when you are the higher you are in any hierarchy especially president but if you're the CEO if you're the president of a university you are not getting good feedback you aren't and you have to beg for for it and you've got to listen carefully for it uh and uh the president is the presidency is the worst place I mean Richard Nixon was getting nothing finally finally and this was way you know this was back in the in the 70s finally uh senior Democrats and others came to him and said you are not going to survive and even then he was resistant and they had to keep on going at it and to tell him that he had to if he wanted to avoid uh a criminal trial if he wanted to avoid total impeachment which was very very likely at that time he had to leave uh but that was an extreme situation and Biden looks at the polls and he says I don't believe the polls and he hears about the approval ratings I don't believe the approval R he's dismissive of them all well yeah but is that a tactic I mean is that I mean when they when George Steen NOA said how will you feel if Trump wins and you were wrong and you've stuck with and it's the day after you know it's November whatever 678 it's he said it's January yeah uh of 2025 and Trump takes over and starts ripping apart everything that you try to do and he said well I'll tell myself I at least did the best I could right well that's not enough of a that's that's not enough that's a very almost narcissistic I mean it's it's silly I feel silly using the word narcissism about Biden when you have you know the narcissist and chief on the other side uh but I think Biden needs to and maybe this is impossible to have more distance on what is happening I mean the stakes are so high we keep talking about this and we actually haven't had a clutch it's hard to remember what day it is you and I haven't sat here with our microphones and coffee cups since all of the um immunity decisions came down from the Supreme Court well this is why the the stakes are even higher that's it because the Supreme Court is now enlarging the power of the presidency uh which is fine if you get somebody in there who has good knowledge and good faith and is trying to do the job as it should be and then is disaster if you get Donald Trump in there and this is why it's it's even more disturbing that Biden doesn't have that kind of distance now don't get me wrong about what I'm saying uh I haven't made up my mind about what Biden should do or what the Democrats should do but clearly there is a growing issue a growing problem uh I don't believe polls I don't go by polls but clearly on the basis of everything we're seeing and hearing uh this right is very very troubling right but even if you're not or we are not advocating for one way or another we have to think we have 90 days until early voting starts 90 days in fact less than fewer than 90 days until early voting starts in sub States we've got um well uh less than seven weeks till the Democratic National Convention um and you have uh well you you have really a matter of days here uh and we've never in my knowledge I and I'm somewhat of a historian of presidents uh never never seen anything like this at this point in time the delegates have already been almost all selected still a sliver they haven't been uh but Joe Biden has got to release them if there is going to be any change if he sticks to his guns and doesn't release them then he is the nominee if he's the nominee if the polls and the direction of the polls are to be believed Donald Trump becomes the next president I don't like how this is going now did you sleep I was hoping I would see the interview I mean I'm a dreamer here with George Stephanopoulos and I would start to sleep better but this week since the debate I mean is your phone blowing up I mean not only do I have text saying please donate but just people saying what do we do what how can I help do you know what is Robert Rice saying I haven't heard I people don't ask me what is Robert R say but I haven't heard should just listen to this podcast I haven't heard as much Panic upset discussion I mean I can't walk down the the street without people coming up to me who I don't know saying what should be done what are the Democrats going to do what should uh and uh and again Heather I I'm struck by the difference between the Republicans and Democrats when the Republicans confront what they have already confronted a President Who Lies uh continually who who called the presidential election of 2020 that it was a stolen election uh who refused to go to the inauguration uh who you know I mean we know this is a long long list can can I add to it attempted coup can I add to impeachments can I add some felonies you can add every everything you want uh but what the Republicans do is they they they they just guard him they they they make a ring around him they uh they support him they they lie for him they all adopt his lies I mean look at the the the vi the people who want to be vice presidents they are even a couple of them who are I remember as somewhat reasonable they're now sounding a lot like Trump um so the Republicans all become Trump when he's in trouble they all just they go to where he's in court y I'm picturing like a lava lamp where all the blobs just move into the other blob and and the Democrats are completely the opposite and the media is the same way I mean Fox News is right with Trump no matter what he does he'll and the mainstream media uh even the Ley Med even MSNBC well maybe he should be leaving maybe he it's time and look oh dear what are we going to do there's a kind of a remarkable asymmetry and I think it has to do with fundamentally the difference between authoritarianism and democracy authoritarians are into discipline hierarchy they really just here's the line we'll get L AB yep will salute U people who believe in democracy you know they believe in democracy we're not going to we're going to discuss this we're going to deliberate voice our worries which doesn't always help in terms of you know messaging well it doesn't help in terms of messaging and it doesn't help in terms of where we ultimately Go I mean what I've seen and what I'm seeing is a pile on and but when I say A pile on I mean that it's very hard for a presidential candidate to get out from under this even if the president candidate says I disagree it doesn't matter because the Pyon continues to undermine the president the presidential candidate uh donors get worried uh spokespeople get worried uh people who are out on the outer rims of of of Biden land say well we don't know you know we haven't heard from him uh and everything gets worse and worse and the polls as a result continue to go down and as the polls go down further then then the pylon gets even worse uh so I I guess if I were predicting I would say in a few days Heather I mean maybe mid next week maybe the end of next week uh he's going to have to anoint somebody else uh or else face the prospect of i a a terrible loss not only the presidency but also the Senate and the house y I do feel like George Stephanopoulos tried to get to this a little bit yesterday last night and say but you see what's happening here I mean even if you say you're feeling great and you know we think you've done phenomenal things but what about the larger picture that everyone else is seeing and feeling how do we and it didn't really he didn't really address it no and and again I if I were in his position and I was surrounded by a bunch of people and my wife and they were all saying to me don't listen to them You' got this yeah I would so you know i' be as in transigent I would hold on also I think he wants Trump to lose and he thinks he can beat him I think that's part of it I'm sure that's part of it uh but the question again is where we are even a week from now y now if he has to anoint somebody else here we go who I mean kamla Harris I'm the first to say that you are not I mean I think everyone this no but but the question is why because her her PO s again let's let's be clear we're not trusting every poll but through the last 3 and a half years her polls have been below Biden's right so why do you say she's the natural okay anointing well some of the reason her polls are low is it turns out that America can be a misogynistic racist Place misogynist racist so there's that you don't say I say um so there's would argue against having her be the candidate no it's not arguing against I'm just saying we have to take that into account we have to take into account the realities of her being a black woman and how people see her right some people now um she can allegedly take all the money easily you know if Biden were to anoint her she is incredibly powerful as it relates to abortion which is a huge issue perhaps she is more distant from the Gaza um horrific situation that Biden has been closer to and so a lot of young progressives and other people are saying not going to vote for him because I'm voting with my conscience or whatever it is leaving the top of the ticket blank perhaps she can get some of those votes and I think that would be interesting and I think she'd be fierce at a debate that debate where we were worried about Biden and tracking him and trying to see I mean she the thing she could say to a convicted felon well I don't should count of there ever being another debate if Trump is ahead by five or six or eight points he's not going to consent to another debate uh and Biden after what happened uh with the last debate may never go on or his handlers may not allow him to go on again uh but I agree with you she is a tough debater but the real argument is it's the easiest path forward if Biden is not going to uh continue it's his you know she's his vice president uh it's the Biden Harris campaign the money can be transferred easily to the Biden Harris campaign for her and uh the organization can also adapt most easily to her you don't want an open convention some people are saying an open convention which means everybody can get in who wants to get in I remember the 1968 Democratic Chicago open convention yeah Heather you don't want to go there I mean there were demonstrations and that that made it even and uglier right and there could be again by the way but it was uh the Democrats were shown to be in total and utter disarray and chaos and it hurt them uh Hubert Humphrey ultimately became the candidate and then obviously he was defeated by Richard Nixon but uh no an open convention is not the way to go um but if Harris gets the nod and is Anointed by Biden it's the only way that she can do it then the question is who becomes her vice president right now be and she's known nationally right anyone else who we talking about a governor from whatever state I mean I think you're right I mean I think this would be if it happens if Biden chooses it right now Bill Maher all these people are coming out and saying open convention would be neat wouldn't it be I think this wild to naive I think some of some journalist and some comedians uh think comedians well that would be fun no it would be entertaining they're thinking entertainment right no think about winning so back to your point about who would be the veps vep Joe Biden no um so a lot of people I mean so people say gritchen gret and Whitmer that would be interesting two the first ever double female ticket I think that your point about misogyny yes would be misog any Square yeah if it's a two female ticket so then of course other people have mentioned Shapiro um Josh Josh Shapiro who is the governor of Pennsylvania well I think that he is certainly up there in terms of the vice presidential sweep Stakes because Pennsylvania is so important now then you have a black woman number one and a Jewish man number two still you know we're we're flirting here with Prejudice uh but maybe that's the best we can do I think that uh the other Governor that's often mentioned is Gavin Nome the problem there is twofold number one California oh Americans hate California even though kamla Harris is from C California they forgive for she feels less for California than Gavin Gavin Newsome is California personi I think you're right in Fox News I mean he would be eviscerated for and uh but also there are I mean there is the 12th Amendment right which says so I don't know exact I mean I don't you probably have it memorized and in your pocket but so basically two on the both people on the ticket coming from the same state is a problem as it's related to The Electoral College exactly uh and that's why in the past you've had uh for example Dick Cheney when he was George W's vice president he changed his residence to Wyoming from Florida Texas that's right but he had live he had been in Wyoming and he had been a senator for Wyoming right and then he had a home there but it was his vacation home so you can get around this you can get around it but it's still perhaps Kam's you know address it's not going to happen I think uh if I were betting I would say Josh Shapiro but the first question is when and if Joe Biden actually drops out uh you said it loudly that he was not no I want to I want to just before we finish this I want to make a case that Joe Biden should not drop out good let's hear it and the case would be number one an incumbent president is much more powerful than anybody else even an incumbent vice president number two somebody who has already proven his chops by beating Trump is has a great deal of credibility in terms of doing it again uh and number three that the public although having a lot of doubts about Biden as we get closer to the election will'll have greater and greater doubts about the stability of his opponent Donald Trump who is going to be ever more menacing you know the project 2023 the campaign book that was prepared 2025 I say 2023 I'm getting a little bit old um that's what 2025 uh was the campaign book essentially for Donald Trump he disavowed it yesterday he said what project he said I mean it really was remarkable on Truth social he said I I don't know anything about it uh when it there 20 people who put it together who were working for him uh including the person who is his director of office management budget who was directing the project 20125 and it was a classic Trump you know I would say tweet except it wasn't a tweet you tweet it's said I don't know what that is and I disagree with it and I completely disagree with it not knowing what it is which is fasc very tricky and some of it's just I mean insane and also I wish them luck so that's what I think the bottom line Heather for me is that we will know much more over the next week if the the the drum beat continues to grow so loud and if the Senate and the senators get together members of Congress get together Governors get together if they if they're all concerned about down ballot consequences uh of Jo Biden being on the top of the ballot then they are going to put enormous pressure on the White House Biden May withstand that pressure right but uh I can't I can't guarantee it I know now one other question for you too is Trump has been besides his tweet about not knowing what project 2025 was his truth his social whatever you say that on that platform he's been on untruth untr truth anth so he has not been saying much in the p as we're all levitating which is the best evidence yet that he wants this to play out he knows it's under Ming Biden the long it goes on uh and he doesn't want at the same time Biden to pick somebody else um and there is a lot of a lot of evidence from the Republicans that they want Biden yeah I think they do look at the polls you know but it would be fascinating you think they'd be shaking in their boots if vice president Harris comes up well they're they're prepared obviously they've done a lot of what's called um opposition research which means basically stirring the the can uh but uh you say that on a podcast I don't think so they and but they they are preparing advertisements they're preparing everything in case she does become the nominee uh but um she's still going to be a fresh face and it could be that the opposition to Trump is so deep and remember we're talking about a limited number of people they're Independents they are moderates uh they are in swing States they are women they're going to make the big difference here some of them are young and uh maybe she is enough to get the election yeah amongst people of color as well I mean it'll be interesting it'll be interesting may you may you live in interesting times I think we do but it is scary it's terrifying and I just hate that this is where we are I hate it for I do too everyone I mean i' I've spent the last 55 years of my life uh in and around politics and writing and watching and Advising uh and I am very anxious about the future of this country I'm very anxious about the future of our democracy I never thought I I would be saying that but I am and more so yeah so on that uh upbeat note more will be revealed though more will be revealed and look I I I wanted say to all of you I know how upsetting all of this is I know how worrisome it is uh but I feel after 55 years of doing this that there is a kind of deep common sense in the American public there is a kind of goodness I have faith in in the American public and so we're going to get through it thank you for that we'll see you next Saturday [Music]

Channel: Robert Reich

Views: 162,212

Keywords: inequality media, robert reich, robert reich inequality for all, robertreich, secretary of labor

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Length: 26min 38sec (1598 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 06 2024