What Neil Druckmann REALLY Said (And What It Means For Gaming)

next um Talking Point down it's something from Neil dman he's told the LA Times that naughty dog has multiple single player projects in the works um however this comes alongside Sony themselves misquoting dman in in an in-house interview where Sony's blog wrongly stated duckman's new next game is something that could redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming then leading to a considerable backlash online around some assumed level of pretentiousness around what he was saying and in reality that's not what he said and dman got out on Twitter um and uh just literally showed the exact quote that he had given to Sony's internal um and he was more talking about the evolution of video game storytelling over the years and how games and gaming is seen in the mainstream following the success of the last of a show now this was a whole thing on Twitter so I did want to I want to read out and this is quite a long quote so you have to forgive me for a bit but I do want to get into the conversation that is here because I think it was completely overlooked in regards to all the misquoting stuff um but he specifically said there's a new appreciation for gaming that I've never seen before like when I was growing up gaming was more of a kids thing now it's now it's clearly for everyone if you're a gamer you know about the potential of games and non-gamers they don't really know what they're missing out on but my Hope was when when we made the last of us as a TV show that we could change that someone who will watch the show and really like it and fall in love with those characters the way that we fall in love with those characters and their story and then realize at the end wait that's based on a video game and then go and check out the game and just see the wealth of narratives and everything else that's happening in games now I feel that there's kind of a spotlight on gaming not because games need to be movies or they need to be a TV show I think it just kind of opens the eyes of a bunch of people that just weren't aware of the kind of experiences that exist in games I think right now we've hit a Tipping Point where it's about to take off where people realize oh my God there's all these incredible moving experiences in games so I'm not only excited about this game that we're making and it's something really fresh for us but I'm also excited to see how the world reacts to it because of the last of us and the success of the show people even outside of gaming are looking at us to see what it is that we put out next I'm very excited to see what the reaction for this thing will be all of that got condensed down to it will other thing about revolutionizing the perception whatever but I I do love what he's saying here um missing just there like he's going to redefine [Applause] the media machine in a nutshell isn't it you give this like really interesting uh Nuance point in that it comes out the other end as my next game is going to kick ass so like I think overall and drumman started as a coder um you know know what talk he's worked his way up he's obviously got a million stories to tell which is brilliant um but over the years has become a divisive figure whatever you're either a fan of The Last of Us two something like the last of us two or Uncharted for Naughty dog's New Direction or you're not um or you can have a conversation about it but I think overall the conversation here about the wealth of Storytelling in games and the the meaning behind those things and something like the last of us making the leap across and becoming this big mainstream success is even more fascinating couched in the reality of something like a like a dragon show being announced and Fallout and God of War and Horizon and the fact that all of these stories are about to be mined and it's like well which one of which of those stories has the depth the character writing ETA what do you guys think of that whole thing it's interesting to me because obviously I know that TV is a huge phenomenon like it draws in huge numbers it's obviously like a key pillar of for me the biggest litus test with all this is if a video game movie is going to like absolutely you know aale the Box OB obviously there was Super Mario but that is that to me it's a kids movie first before it is a game movie if that makes sense like it's it's the difference between you know Superman and crypto versus like a Iron Man or like a dark knight in terms of this is the thing that is cementing this genre as cultural staple so I totally get what he's saying there I know lots of people who really enjoyed the last ofos TV show obviously HBO is a huge cultural touch Stone to of Pop Culture over the last 20 25 years and but for me the the big the big Proving Ground the big arena that these things need to prove themselves in is uh is is the movies and I I I need to before before this becomes like everyone's looking into this stuff I need to see them conquer that plane of existence as well that's just my take as a as a movies um but I I don't know what do you think ah I'm sort of I'm sort of divided on this like many people were with the last of us uh part two funnily enough but I think Fallout and for me specifically The Last of Us TV show adaptation has accomplished what Neil drumman sort of getting at there just because for me it was so crazy to watch the viewing figures for that show rise and get to like 20 million viewers and outpace House of the Dragon you know uh which was HB Crown Jewel before then and then also see it you know sweep Emmy nominations and become critically recognized as much as it was commercially so I do think TV can break into um break games and games stories into the mainstream in like a really poent way but I'm also inclined to side with Yu you and because the the box office and the movies still kind of reign supreme in many ways in the cultural um sort of better you know like last year we saw the immense success of Oppenheimer and barie like two of the biggest cultural moments um of the last year that kind of defined the entire year culturally of course there were other huge things around them but we talk about stuff like Avengers endgame as well Avengers Infinity war and Avatar the way of water these things that come out and make huge amounts of money and become the dominant conversational point of uh the moment I know they they do I think carry a little bit more weight culturally than television shows but I still think he's kind of ultimately right I think when when they're big when they're big they are you know I I would say so anyway definitely for Oppenheimer Barbie I guess there's so few in far between but when they do hit it's like oh everyone rallies around a big movie like yeah definitely I think it's because we're just coming off all the stuff about how bad box office prodct things have been for furiosa and F guy and whatever that it feels like film's on a bit of a downswing but like we'll see how it goes in the next few years I think I think that is 100% true you can't argue with the facts I just think when we're talking about like the events the ones that still do hit like it is crazy that Oppenheimer broke a billion dollars Barbie making that much money the fact that Avatar 2 came out and everyone said this is not going to make money not only is it not going to be a success it's going to be a bomb and then it made $2 billion do I think suggests that you know PE Cinema gos are definitely pickier than they were back in the day and a lot of them will opt towards television the event want they want the event and I think if we're looking at game IPS that are going to evti going to the movies and breaking through that cultural kind of barrier um even though I really love Naughty Dogs games I don't see something like an Uncharted or a last ofers in on the big screen making that leap despite the TV gains I think I think if you're looking for something that has a rich mythology that has a big kind of decades long history if you get the right person behind the camera I think it is Metal Gear Solid I don't think it's Wingard need an actual obviously we have the death stranding movie happening is a TV show4 God what is it must be a movie yeah so like death string is happening but I think like I can imagine a metal gear movie being the big thing because it has that kind of Rich franchise history that Big Rich Legacy that iconography the kind of like the the blending of genres it's such an original but also like homage driven series I think that would be the one for me that if I was if I was a big Hollywood guy you know smoking the cigars I'm just there with the Carlo angelot in it just like hey what what am I going to do next I I would be putting it all on on I think um my thing is like it's fascinating thinking because the thing I don't know about you guys but when you watch through the last of us if you watched it with any family members or if they talk to you about it or whatever there was still that thing and I had this a few years ago when um I was show my parents GTA5 and they and my dad was like games have come a long way haven't they like the standard thing of like games have come a long way but there is Association is forever terrorist and Pac-Man um from like the70s and so I think there's a bit of that conversation here as well about the idea that something like at the end if someone watches The Last of Us TV show they get to the end they're reminded it's a video game or they Google it or whatever it is so which is then that conversation of like which franchisees which games which IP um has that depth of Storytelling Metal Gear kind of does that's in the same bracket as Yakuza to me where it's um it's gameplay forward but then you have these Great Cuts scenes and this over the top stuff it's just the imagery I think it's the imagery that cuts through with all this it's the reason why Comics have been so big for so long at the end of the day you look at Batman on top of Gotham City's rooftops you're like that is powerful iconography and I think last ofos obviously has its own powerful iconography for that has its own Rich aesthetic as well but if I was looking at something that is going to like be box office I just think of like the bandana the beard the iPad no totally I just like for the TV side of things as well or having cuz the thing is like when Last of Us blew up obviously 2013 it was like oh this is a big milestone for gaming it's like a lot of people going oh I've never cried at a video game until now and it's like whatever like where were you in Final Fantasy 7 came up but like still that whole idea of like trying to find the properties that have weight trying to find the stories that have um story beats and thematics and narrative weight that is similar to TV shows and movies and like do we need that little pocket of games that are already close I mean dman says like it's not like they need to already be movies and TV shows but I think it's interesting thinking about and properties that aren't already in that vein and then making them work like that like Arcane and Castlevania or what I want more of especially Castlevania I love Arcane season one but Castlevania all four seasons are phenomenal and Warren even played the games like um and you can tell like to a degree but narrativizing and you know making more cinematographical if that's even a word game play like um 2D SES scrolling gameplay and making these big you know fleshing the world out that's to me what it needs to happen that's again you're coming back to Aesthetics there like is is a matter for me I think that it's the visual imagery that will carry these things into different cultural spheres and different mediums I think it is you're drawing upon Castlevania there like that got that you got that rich Gothic architecture and obviously it takes that that that kind of um that that adapt adaptational lens to then kind of remold it to fit TV or you know whatever but I think it's those are the ones that I'll be looking for to really break through like and like last of us to me even though obviously hugely ACC claimed and it has its own unique aesthetic it's still in that kind of post-apocalyptic post Walking Dead kind of era of Storytelling and so it's kind of still feels like it's part of a trend whereas something like metal gear even with the so many different influences on it I'm like that is the original through line that will get you through there it's why like Batman is so pulpy original and became such a huge hit it's why like Spider-Man again like Steve dick Coast is it's I think it is just we're looking for those kind of totemic images that will definely I for my my personal thoughts are just that it's characters like the reason Castlevania absolutely FS is because Trevor bont's a great character and the Arc of him and selfie and whatever like it's you need those characters I think alongside the the visual flare oh yeah I'm not saying it's just on its own but like it could be any of the like we've had so many dracular adaptations I think the reason why Castlevania because whenever I see it I'm like wow that looks amazing You' got that that rich fluidity to the to the imagery going on there it'll be curious to see how Borderlands does that was even happening and I'm like this this is why I do love the pivot of TV shows I am so pleased I am I wake up every day fellas I'm thankful and and I'm glad you wake up every day I wake up every day but also I wake up every day and I'm thankful that they didn't make the Last of Us as a movie I don't think it would have worked in the same way and I think it would have squandered a lot of its potential in the pursuit of commercial um potential swallowed up in the mix of other post-apocalyptic stuff like quiet place and stuff like that 100% I think it would have lost the Quiet Moments that make that game um so compelling from a story front but I do also think it works on television because it does still allow you that cultural penetration you know we've talked a lot about movies but the fact that I was fing up my dad and he was watching The Last of Us and enjoying it without knowing anything about those characters I think it does accomplish what Neil drukman says there because I think we're at at this moment in time we're at a transitionary um stage when it comes to Media the dominant stories that are being told and adapted you know it reminds me of the comic book boom not just because we're starting to see video games make a lot of money when they do come over to television or movies but because we're seeing that cultural perception shift from these are shallow kids thing to oh this is something that everyone might be interested in and have characters and imagery that we can all um enjoy on a big stage is moving from being something nichan for nerds to something uh for the nerd inside everyone to be as Conny as I can possibly get and I I I think we need like those little hits that we're getting or in some cases big hits like The Last of Us pulling in 20 million viewers The Fallout TV show debuting on Amazon getting in 60 across its entire season the Super Mario Brothers making a billion dollars even and I don't necessarily love the movie Uncharted making I think it made about 400 million so so not an not not an MCU level success when the MCU was in a head there but a solid performer for a non-comic book movie you know he's seeing these kind of steps towards potentially what you were describing there you and that real big live action kind of lightning Bol moment and for me me I think MGS is a good shout but for me it's the moment they make a GTA movie it's I don't think it be good I don't want to it but I think as soon as that drops that's like I I reckon that's a guaranteed billion dollar could e that that it sends sends fear my spine the words GTA movie because that that franchise is so derivative in terms of Storytelling modes that someone could easily look at that and go I'm just going to adapt to GTA rather than try and do something uniquely like with with with authorial intent behind it and try and like I'm going to show different parts of the game I'm going to feature this part of the game so yeah but I I think you've touched on a great point there that we're going to run up against when we start adapting games because I don't think this is a knock against the games themselves but so many games are derivative of ideas started in movies or books or television you know tomb raid are Uncharted indebted to the likes of Indiana Jones or how many Fallout 3 even though it's tone is slightly different so indebted to the imagery of Mad Max and certain compus movies absolutely so then you get to the we found the issue in gaming I think that when you then make a Mad Max game or you then introduce Indiana Jones it's tough to make it feel fresh because we've seen those ideas adapted in different um franchises in to to great success and it's like well what do you have to offer because you might have been the OG but we've had all of this while you've been waiting out in the gaming world and how does that translate to movies where like something like Call of Duty comes across or a grand theft daughter of course they have original characters and stories but they're so indebted to other pieces of media like are we just can they overcome that hurdle is back well that's that's why I don't want stuff that is already on a certain cinematic level in that's why I didn't give it a crap about The Last of Us show because it's already done it's those scenes have already been shot like if it's going to do them again that's boring AF to me that's why I prefer Arcane Castlevania whatever I would rather you took something that had very little um narrative or very little um cinematography and then make that work for the medium you're changing it to I think it's interesting going forward um cuz like I said you the Borderlands movie it's weird hard to see how that lands the live action Zelda movie is going to be a whole thing um because you're taking a character that is fundamentally mute the idea of a mute protagonist is so fundamentally video games and then are you going to make link talk throughout is that going to change his character like and also like um invoking the question from the mainstream audience of like oh man that's a really great story I'll go play the video game and then the game being nothing like that um that is the case if you play the Castlevania games like you know you get that a but nothing else Trevor Belmont's barely say anything in Castlevania 3 so like there's that whole thing as well about like do they go hand in hand I think it's a better card to play even though it's a risky one to take something that doesn't have story not make you a little bit anxious so that they could do like you we've got the board game glut going on at the minute whereas like after B success we're getting an eightball movie and we're going to get a monopoly movie you could easily just see that we're going to do a Tetris movie and all the blocks talk obviously they did the blocks are G to talk now I was going to be yeah it's uh oh man it's it's what a strange time to be covering this stuff isn't it because I feel like we haven't seen when we how many going back to what you said Scott before I just completely eat all of my words and what you said there about how you find it you know pointless to adapt something very cinematic I totally sympathize with that argument especially as someone who has been gaming this long and has seen all of their the the sort of cinematic approach to video game cutscene design become so dominant in be accomplished so well I wonder if it's going to going forward going to be it's the same case as adapting Comics kind of was and adapting certain books was where those shows kind of just aren't for us like they're not intended for us as an audience I remember um watching The Walking Dead back in its head and having read the books and just looking at the figures of um comic book buyers compared to the amount of viewers who were watching it and it was clear that you know that show wasn't necessarily being adapted for the audience of the comic book readers it was being adapted for people who would fresh to it and that's why I do see the value and stuff like Last of Us or even Fallout because yeah we can sit here and say well it was done better in the game or they should have kept these performers or whatnot but I do think it's kind of opening it up to that new um audience who might then come in and not just play the last of us but see video games in a different way and get excited for the last of us three if it comes out or a new game that kind of like looks similar and has the elements that they liked in that kind of story I think it is a little bit different because um the sales I mean gaming is like the biggest industry right and The Last of Us sells 20 million copies so there's kind of inherently a bigger audience there to ignore or have to factor in but I I think I don't know it's it's it's similar still in terms of the elements of the adaptation no man totally like the funny thing is like a whole part of this and we'll just see how it plays out across the next 10 years or whatever the whole a whole wing of this will be Sony's approach that's already in motion which is just it's an advert for the franchise but the core is back on the console like there's a reason they remastered or remade Last of Us Part One in time with the TV show and then it spiked in their sales like there's a whole argument to be made that all of these movies and TV shows are adverts for the video game franchise that's why they get green late in the first place um like a dragon existing on Amazon is specifically because so that's so interesting you bring that up because you look at like comic book movies and it's like the comics and now advert for the movies like The if you're doing the whole symbiosis thing um from the the top down then yeah the reason the like a dragon thing exists is because Sega literally said it's one of their four time franchises um so why not green L at the TV show The budgets make more sense keep think about it and stuff yeah keep it in your mind the thing that Jim Ryan said about um he wants always wants total mind share which is a very PR term um but yeah the idea that that is Hollywood's next phase is uh is this so they can avoid green lighting more uip at a certain budget level it's that's literally what it is um and just go to established stories

Channel: WhatCulture Gaming

Views: 11,299

Keywords: Gaming, Games, Video Games, PS4, Xbox One, Next Gen, E3, ps5, playstation, xbox, sony, microsoft, nintendo, switch, series s, series x, summer game fest, future games show

Id: 5bpSxH1ILQk

Length: 19min 22sec (1162 seconds)

Published: Sat Jun 08 2024