What exactly are we surrendering? Interview with Michael Singer

today I had the honor to interview with Michael a singer three times New York Times best-selling author Beyond tether Soul the surrender experiment and most recently living untethered in 1971 he had an inner weakening while working on his doctorates in economics and later went into seclusion to focus on yoga and meditation in 1975 he also founded the Temple of the universe which became the long established Yuga and meditation center where people of any religion or any set of beliefs can come together to experience inner peace and the building of which I'm standing in front of was the original building that he built by himself he is also the creator of a leading software package which transformed the medical practice management industry in the U.S and founding CEO of the billion dollar public company whose achievement has been archived in the Smithsonian institution along with his more than five Decades of spiritual teachings singer has also made major contributions in the areas of business education Healthcare and Environmental Protection foreign how are you today ecstatic I know you're gonna answer that well Nikki it's such a treat for me because I know you um are a really private person you really you know do interviews like this so it's it feels so special for me to be able to have this opportunity to sit down with you and have a conversation and really the inspiration for this conversation happened when Lincoln and I spent a little over a month on the ground of Temple of the universe and was able to enjoy some of your talks and you know we did yoga and meditation a couple times with Karen too and I just felt this this calling side of me that just makes me feel like I need to be the conduit to share the messages out to the world and also specifically for the community that me and three other Founders founded this year called IU planet um so in our community we have folks range from in their 20s their 30s so younger folks who are beginning to or beginning to realize there is also a have inside for their own personal transformation and growth and they're just hungry for you know teachings and knowledges that you spend your life's work on so today again I just feel so honored to be able to share this time with you would you like to stay to the camera and just say hi to the audience hey everybody I am more honored than she is I have a tremendous affinity for people from China very very special your history is phenomenal your wisdom is phenomenal you have so many many great beings and you're a very good country and so I'm honored to have an opportunity to talk to you today thank you so much Nikki so um really today I want to just have a conversation touching on three of your New York best-selling books um I of course first read the surrender experiments when I read the book and I pick up the book I was still living in New York City you know the husband passed in the city I was working as a consultant at a you know business consulting company and when I picked out the book and I saw the title The Surrender experiment I was like finally some book you know not talking about go get it you know success achieve you know anything you want so I guess at the time I was searching for almost permission to stop you know just being feeling like being stuck in a rat race but as I read the book you know it actually it's not really you're not telling us to to stop or to you know go out in the woods and you know during the Solitude and meditate I actually felt this immense you know just commitment towards letting go of yourself and letting go that part of you or the voices and in the head that we normally tend to listen to and get frustrated by so I really just want to begin our conversation with the voices which you will answer beautifully all three of your books so can you begin by just telling us what are those voices and you know um and how significant that is to our personal development sure that's where my growth started was one day out of nowhere I don't answer why I just started noticing that I was uncomfortable instead of being uncomfortable and started noticing that there was a dialogue going on in my mind that was not comfortable generally all right figure out everything can go wrong if it did go wrong or whatever I like and what should I do et cetera et cetera and the difference was though that I I was noticing this instead of being it so the first thing I would say about the voice inside your head or that dialogue is everybody has it unquestionably but unless you step back you don't need to think you are it you are it you know you just that's me talking that's who I am and I'm trying to figure out what to do and arguing different sides and I'm trying et cetera et cetera so the real major step of spiritual growth is to just take a breath step back and notice that there is a Voice Talk inside your head if I always give people practices I tell them to say hello inside their head over and over again not outside but inside right and then I ask a simple question did it do this and they say yes of course it did it right how do you know and they get frustrated right I know because I heard it who heard it you just said I heard it subject object right so all of a sudden you realize it's true I heard it okay well what if you're not making say hello and let's say whatever it wants do you notice yes and now that first step back and that's the first Awakening it's called the witness objective observation of where you called it right you step back and you notice yes there is a dialogue going on inside my head and I am aware of that okay so now the question becomes what do you want to do about that in some people's case nothing you know just go about your business and continue listening to The Voice there are many of us who have looked at it and said that's not exactly who I'd like to be this neurotic person who can't make up their mind and wants this and doesn't want that and trying to connive and figure out how to get what I wanted that's all that voice talks about right and if you're too close to it you get sucked in all right I don't like that I don't like you're not watching that you're being that you're trying to figure out what to do about that all right when you start to grow spiritually inwardly you realize that's just the same voice talking it doesn't matter what it's saying they're saying I like it saying I don't like it saying do this don't do this oh my God have you did that that's terrible whatever it is it's just a dialogue going on inside your head you whose listening are not that dialogue you are the one who's listening and watching it so that is the beginning of real spiritual growth where you commit yourself to notice that is not me and what it's saying has not really helped that much in my life it's made me apply you just made me anxious made guilty maybe so on and so forth right so how do I learn to live with that because it's there and raise myself to a more beautiful inner State than having to struggle with and work with and listen to that constant dialogue that is complains all the time I don't like this it was irania okay so there's this the story of the dialogue The Book of voice yeah yeah that's so beautiful well you mentioned well there's so it's almost like I remember it's it's in either in the Cerner experiment or an on Tether so that you describe it as your roommate leaving your head and I remember you know for this interview almost didn't happen because of all these voices going on in my mind because I you know of course when I first spend a couple weeks here and I had that calling I was like I want to invite me for an interview and I kept hearing different voices and be like no you're not important as Oprah right and or you know there's also voices anyway go for it you need to try harder right and I don't know if you still remember I actually asked you that question during one of your talks and I asked you which one is true which one should I be listening to and you just look at me directly in my eyes and you said neither yeah well what a moment I still remember vividly I don't even know like I just remember this wash of keys and and surrender right and that's when it clicked for me what it really means to surrender so in your book surrender experiments you talked about here I quote um the rules of the experiment were very simple if life brought events in front of me I would treat them as if they came to take me Beyond myself if my personal self complained I would use each opportunity to Simply let him go and surrender to what life was presenting me this was the birth of what I came to call the surrender experiment so beautiful um and of course you know many people who you know pick up the book and you know um I can imagine people would be looking at the word surrendering media thinking something like you know like when I first read the book right I gotta stop I gotta just let whatever life take me to you know whatever that's next um and you also said in in the book yourself you said you know surrender what an amazingly powerful word it often engenders the thought of weakness and cowardice um but in my case he required all the strength I had to be brave enough to follow the invisible into the unknown so um I want to ask you in person so what are you surrendering to during the surrender experiment what people very much for a while misunderstand what's going on like it takes away it takes multiple readings and it takes some of your life experience you're not surrendering life let's throw it that way you're not a renunciate you're not denying doing these you know working experiencing and so on that is not surrender okay that's something very different that's hiding that's that's quitting that's that's not surrender right what you're surrendering is your inner reaction to what's happening outside that reaction is based upon your past experiences you're programmed with what felt good what didn't feel good which et cetera et cetera so in the outside world unfolds you're looking through the veil of that programming right and it doesn't mean your scene was actually happening you're seeing your reaction your inner your psychic your psychological reaction to what's happening that's what you surrender you surrender that inner reaction that says I don't like this I don't like what you're saying I don't I don't like it I don't even know what the heck you're saying it's just hitting me wrong they're saying that it hit a part of me that sounded like my mother or my father or the preacher or my first boyfriend or girlfriend right and then that's what I'm reacting to so I'm not interacting with life and interacting with myself and my reaction to life okay and eventually it gets very clear that that's what you're doing right is you're you're just looking through the veil of your past experiences how they built up inside of you of preferences and your fears and anxieties and desires all that stuff is built up and then when the war comes in it doesn't come back to you the experience or it goes through that Veil and what you're experiencing is not the truth it's never the truth it's never the truth until you get very very clear and that stuff you know how to step aside for that stuff you don't know what somebody's saying you don't know why they're saying it but your mind tells you you do that voice assistant I know what she meant by that she was lying to me she doesn't look like it but she's lying but and you ask it specifically did you really mean that yes she's still lying it's like what are you doing in there right how do you know anything right and so that's what you surrender you surrender the reactive energy of your own veil of your own psyche which is not not the truth it's just what you picked up during your life the different experiences you had and that's a major part of of going deeper into the spiritual teachings you have had experiences your whole life like somebody could argue and they say well my experiences are important no they're not what do you mean everything you experienced every moment you experience that you're missing 99.999999999 of everything that's going on so how could that be important if you'd look the other way you have a different experience if you've got if you if you got stalled it didn't make a meeting they had a different experience anything that happened to have a different experience so what's so important about the experience you actually had it's just one in a trillion 100 zillion right and then you take those and put them together and weave them into a self-concept that I'm important this is what I know this is what's true how do I know I've experienced this yeah but what didn't you experience you didn't experience seven billion things at the same time why is the one you experience more important than the one you didn't experience I didn't make you answer me right why would it be more important it's just an experience right aren't there experiences going on everywhere at the same time why are they not just as important as a parent as you have make sense understand that yeah right but you think because you had it it's the beginning and end of all wisdom and being involved knowledge being beginning of all truth all right and you weave your experiences together into this psych into this Veil that says I know what's going on right like I said if you had a different experience you would say something else was going on every single experience would create a different you and So eventually you become humble enough to realize this is a problem not a solution the fact that I collected this garbage this meaningless moment in life there's that like there are people that have one moment in their life didn't happen they'd be totally different people oh you said that if one person didn't die if one person didn't say something if one person said hello and they didn't say hello if one person anything their whole life is different well that's ridiculous you ever said that that's ridiculous is that there's so many things going on why is that one moment have the right to Define your entire life a wise person says it doesn't it's just what happens because my psyche gets gets fixated on the experience that I had and you're going to find out that then what happens is the world comes into you and it hits that stuff and that's why the voice is talking inside your head it talks about that and So eventually you get to the point you realize that is what you're surrendering not renouncing not suppressing just being wise enough to realize that talk inside your head is not the beginning and end of all knowledge in fact it's not even close right it's just it happens to be the sum total of your learned experiences which are nothing right I keep asking I know people can handle it if those are your learned experiences what did you miss everything else wow and they would make a different you that's the true humility of a spiritual person right if you have different experiences nothing the way you're thinking all right therefore those thoughts are not all they're important not that meaningful okay and so you start realizing that your reaction your reactive energy is your ego your active energy is just this little world that you built inside okay and at some point you realize that's a problem that's why I don't like things I don't I don't like you why you're blonde I troubled blondes before that's ridiculous I don't like who's your Chinese nationality because you're religion you hear me I don't like you you don't have a religion it's like you'll just end up with all these opinions and preferences and fears and hopes and dreams and they will destroy your life because it's not interact with life you're not with yourself okay wow that's what you let go of not easy but you start realizing if I don't do that how can I have peace how could I love how can I love you think you love somebody so that does one thing you don't like or you think they did one thing or you think they might do one thing that's enough isn't it you think they might someday do the thing that somebody else hurts you and so I can't open to you yeah it's ruining your life yeah they're unable to experience life to live life to express yourself because you have this veil in the way that's what surrender means so when it says I'm going to yet let life unfold and use it to let go of me right that doesn't mean I say yes to everything life does that doesn't mean I don't make decisions or anything like that it means I don't make them based on that Veil I know that Veil doesn't know what it's talking about he thinks it does because it's the sum of its own learning experiences if you give a computer certain data right it will always come up with the same answer if the data doesn't change feed it but I asked it was a top computer I asked him 50 times it came with the same answer must be right though you didn't change the date if you change the date it'll give different answers but more day then understand that that's what's going on inside of us is we just have the data of the meniscule experiences that we had and then they seemed so right every time I know it to the bottom line being of course you do it's all you know because you didn't have any other experiences have one more experience to change your mind yeah so that's the surrender is right it's not surrendering life right but you use life well I guess it's unfolding you're going to interact with life over another follow me things are going to happen yeah use that to let go of this garbage that you collected inside that thinks it knows everything and it doesn't know anything so it's not life you're surrendering it's really the resistance that one encounters if something goes slightly not the way that you think that you didn't like or you know personal preferences right that's what you're surrendering and it's it's neat you're deep but you've been here for a while so I'd love to know you but I like to talk to everybody as of you know deep right you're not even surrendering preferences that's difficult people to understand right why if you want something and you surrender it that's pronunciation that's another form of struggle if you don't want something right and you resist it you don't resist it right you're still having trouble what you what you find eventually what I got is you let go of surrender the reason you have preferences wow you don't get rid of the outside world that's causing you to react your preferences you don't ultimately think in the strip way my preferences all right that's just a struggle that now you struggles that outside your struggles inside first of all struggle with how do I get my preferences then let's look at how to get rid of my preferences right no why do you have preferences preferences are natural isn't that natural right the weather is what it is you can handle it it's raining it's not raining it's sunny it's a little hot you can handle those things right somebody says something you're not sure what they said why why do you prefer right that they apologize we don't even know what they said but why do you have preferences and what you're going to find out is you have preferences because you stored problems inside of you from the past there's all kinds of situations have happened to your experiences in your life that were not comfortable you didn't handle those well in fact you said I can't handle this okay and then you pushed it away right now if anything remind you of that you have a preference against that if something happened that you're stored that you liked and what happened again you have a preference toward that the cause of your preferences are these blockages that you stored inside from your past that you couldn't digest that you couldn't release like you know preference about all kinds of things you don't preface about the white lines of a row you have preference about what tree you drove by and her preferences about who's walking down the street in New York unless it reminds you of something that was comfortable uncomfortable inside of you now wait I don't want to do all right so we're going deep it's it is it is not about fighting with life or renouncing life it is not about fighting with yourself although you will go through those stages all right it is about being far enough back to realize the mind and the heart are reacting the way they are because of all this garbage I stored inside myself the events that I couldn't handle that I couldn't process all right so it's about letting go of that there's the letting go right yeah not letting go of life you're not fighting with your ego right it goes a natural reaction to the stuff you've stored inside you couldn't process during the day wow it's not very far for food like you have suppressed things that bothered you I guarantee your mind is talking about those and they're coming back up and you have preferences for them or against them depending on whether you like them or not that's where it comes from so you're not surrendering life you're not surrendering your reactions to life in a sense your preferences right you are at the deepest level you're looking inside and saying wait a minute I live on a planet for a few years I believe I can handle that give me a break that's the nicest planet around no one's find anything even close all right why can't I handle and enjoy the experiences that are taking place in life some of them are comfortable some of them are not but you know that's the way life is okay do I have to store the bad stuff so that now everything looks bad and I'm afraid of everything and I'm desirous about things make me feel good no I am able to surrender that that process that stuff I stored inside you're gonna find out that preferences naturally fall away like they just fall off you know I you're let's say someone's trying to date somebody there's a little bit don't want to be somebody all right but they judge they judge every single thing he sorts of soup you know sit right there's a thing I'm embarrassed of this and we're a bow tie dude oh my God there's like millions of things you judge the person about how can you find somebody how can you love how can you respect somebody right it's all basically based on this garbage that you stored inside if you were to let that go all of a sudden you find out relations are simple what does it mean you feel love inside and you share it doesn't matter if somebody slurped their suit it's funny right it doesn't close you it closes you because it hits that garbage you stored inside wow so ultimately we went very deep now ultimately what you're surrendering and letting go of is the garbage that you should not have stored inside for the past anyways the past is over you shouldn't be storing it in there now you're a more open being more capable of experiencing love beauty inspiration and you share that with the world and life becomes totally different yeah wow I just had another clicking moment for me because you know when when I first um learned about all this spiritual teachings and you know with different um people also and I realized yes you know I have this ego thing that's probably like producing all those voices and sounds and I immediately start to hate on that it's like I don't why do I have this ego and I need to fight with it but what you just said it was so beautiful it's it's not about hating that ego thing right it's also natural that it has all this you know generated all this preferences and garbages because of all and in your third newest book and you went very deep and I think it's the samskara that you talked about in that book yeah so wow at the Buddhists say work at the root that's what that means to me don't work on the outside well that's not the problem don't work on the fact that the ego's reacting because you've still stored it inside of you work on why there is an ego of that level why you were preferences and you'll see the root is that you stored all this stuff throughout your life and now it is formulating the way you think it's formulating that stuff and and if you let that my intellectual stuff intellectually that's what you're mind is for to develop things and study things and learn things right but that's not it's not there to figure out how I need everybody and everything to be so I can be okay which is what it's doing okay yeah that's the Mind itself is not a problem it's what you're doing with it that's a problem mind is a very great thing but if you take that powerful mind and focus on yourself and say I'm not okay why I guess I store all this garbage inside of me you know what I said I said The more I can't not say it if you store every single thing inside of you from the past that you are not okay with you're not going to be okay all right you just stored all this not okay stuff in there right so the root is are you willing to work on yourself to every day let go of the garbage that you stored inside and try to interact with life with a more open way and use life to show you where you're still caught that's what you were talking about the surrender experiment that the moments of Life come in front of you right and you see oh my God I didn't realize that was in there right so it's also a discovery process right because we can't just know I love this attitude that you have right like it's exciting for me it's like I want to know what is all that storage inside of me like right now um you of course you talked about you know when someone decided to go on this journey you also go through phases right and one with the moment that struck me the most in the surrender experiment uh was early on in the book and you um you talked about you know when you went to California uh yoga and meditation retreat center and you chose at the beginning to wear that silence sign right um so not to interact with other people and then later on you had this moment where you said to yourself Nikki it's okay you can come out now and to me I remember just having tears in my eyes reading that part um to me that sounds like a very significant moment for you to begin to shift from seeking you know Solitude and deep deep meditation to find fulfillment to the past of servant leadership so I'm curious for you does that you know you you think that's like a turning point for you to you know shift your kind of spiritual Focus your growth I didn't have a teacher or teachings when I started okay I had a spontaneous deep spiritual experience on spontaneous I was meditating but it didn't belong to someone who had just started meditating before right it doesn't happen anyways and that became a very very strong one point of focus in my life whether it was experience was so beautiful and it's first of my life I realized it was something really beautiful in size right way more beautiful than anything outside right and I was committed to doing anything I could to get the noise out of the way and go back to that place of complete peace and total well-being all right and so I took the path of solitude the path of silence and the path of pronunciation available all that kind of stuff for a while right and what you're talking about is one of one of the moment the people important moments where I realized you know that that's not going to do it if it's not a matter of just being the most disciplined accountant not doing the most as you can not interacting with them and just being alone so you can go inside right there's there's at that time I wasn't as wise I am now but the answer is there's stuff in there that needs to be purified you're not going to just shove it away okay and so life and the interaction with life is your teacher if that's what your commitment is to to grow through this stuff right life will bring it to you and you'll be forced to work with yourself it's not that you get to do it yourself you're not going to be able to do it yourself yeah your mind is not your teacher your mind is not a group wow the life really well because your mind will always be tainted toward what you want you say that like somebody once said to me well how do you pick a guru how do you pick a teacher right you have to be very very selective and so on who's selecting the part you're trying to get rid of is the part you need a teacher for is the part that's judging the teacher wow right well based on what based on your past experience what you think a teacher should be like they should never yell they should always be quiet right they should meditate an awful lot okay and and they should never get sick I'll teach you to never get sick because they're pure you know never get sick right and they should age really I mean come on give me a break all right what you're doing is taking your Concepts which knows nothing because you know nothing you're a million you know nothing he said no I'm a teacher and you're then projecting that onto someone it's not going to grow right life is a phenomenal teacher why you have no control over it you try to you know right life is going to unfold and you either decide I'm going to fight it I'm going to manipulate it I'm going to make it be what I want or I'm going to use it to purify my stuff I'm going to use it to let go of myself and that's what a guru is for it's a real teachers are for right is letting go of yourself so yeah and I remember you know in the book and several different places and you're talking about how your mind or your you know the voice in your head says one thing and your lips says for example your voice says knowing your Loop says yes is that really what it is like just choosing to say yes to whenever you feel the discomfort and the resistance no oh it it has to be deeper than that you have to look and see why am I resistant to this right if a drug dealer walks up to you and sister and says here here's some heroin right you don't say yes right in fact you feel resistance right you feel no is it all right so that just because you feel the resistance doesn't mean you say yes right you have to look deeper inside and you have to see what your motive here okay are you afraid do you feel desirous so if a drug dealer walks up to you like ensure it's true of you and sister and says here here's some heroin you're not afraid and you're not desirous you're clear no no no I don't want to go there right why I don't have an answer I just don't want to go there I have to answer you right and that's not being mean it's not it's just you're clear all right so if you come into a moment and something has been asked of you all right or told for you to do or not do okay and you see this ego jump up right it's not terrible to not do what it's said is that terrible to train it a little bit you know I sit there and just nicely I didn't used to be nice but nicely say to him right it's okay it's okay we can do this I know you don't want to but there's no basis for that this is helping somebody this is a service we can do this and then you say yes okay that's a gentle way to do it I didn't use I used to fight with them all right but that doesn't help you should not fight with yourself right you raise yourself and so but let's say something else happens and he says oh my God I really want to do this I I oh my God I'm so attracted to this new look you say yeah but you're married or something like that and you know they're saying okay calm down calm down right we're not going to go there and the next thing you know you're saying no to something that desires you wanted or you're saying yes to something that you were a little afraid of or you just didn't want to bother and you're you're letting go it's an act of letting go of that part of you so that's what it's about are you aware that you're letting go report that you don't need that you don't want not to just say yes or no every time exactly it's almost I think I'm also hearing active Reflections yes but it doesn't take far that's a very important thing it's like people say I need to think about this there is no thought in this process there's Clarity wow you're there you're aware and you see what's going on you can see what's going on but yeah all right I mean there's a lot of noise you can't see but if you work with yourself a little bit you start to get footing in there you can see he really wants this but he's going to make a sound like he doesn't so that I'll do it all right and it starts rationalizing right this isn't so bad because we're supposed to bro and and the teachings are that you're supposed to be willing to go that's a bunch of BS and you know it and you look at it and you see or or you start seeing truth inside this is a big one right no I I was saying don't even face in a direction you know what you don't want to end up don't even face in a Direction you don't want to know why why would you it's not what you want to do so while you're playing around okay so you sit there and something's going on inside of you and you want to do it or you don't want to do it right and you do what I call turn your head and then when you just kind of turn away from this wisdom that you've gained that knows this is not where I want to go wow but you don't want to see it you don't hear that all right that's when you're not growing wow you understand so now you see what I'm talking but you're in there and you're being a wise being little by little to raise yourself that people say well what if I really didn't see it and that's fine then you do the best you can and you fall or you get up or something happens and you go through the consequences of your actions that's called theme taught so life's your teacher now is that just challenging it was teaching you but it better be it better be that you actually didn't see it not that you saw it and ignored it you know I'm saying if you want to grow you better be honest with yourself forget about anybody else you start with me honest brutally honest with yourself wow right I'm not playing around okay I want to go past this and giving into it or running away from it it's not getting past it but you just do your best wow yeah you know in our community we um a lot of our members in our community they you know on the outside you could say that they have you know accumulated some success sort of the worldly success like for example they've attended you know really great schools and getting the education and they're working right and a lot of members especially members who read your books and they're like wow look at Miki right and he also achieved worldly success right he founded two successful companies and one of which became public um generating billions of revenues and they're looking at you as a role model in that sense but you somehow also integrate your spiritual practice with your worldly development so I'm curious how you manage to do all that well I don't I know you didn't manage but it you know came about to me at least it's a beautiful integration true path it's not it's never here's what you do as a Company CEO and here's what you do meditating on your spiritual practices right it's it's chewing one well you I'll take your exact words right I love when people the words that we use are amazingly good teachers right so you said integrated your your spiritual practices into your worldly work right that's not what happened right I integrated what was happening in the world with my spiritual practices like I was already fully committed to a spiritual path and never budged off of that okay that doesn't mean people can't do their Direction but I don't like that clear right so there's a single thing I did in business that I was doing as a business I was doing it as spiritual growth doing it as I told you life business is a very good teacher you understand that so life is unfolding and you're to whatever degree you are you're centered and you're not willing to sell out for money you're not willing to sell out for relationships yeah I wanted to sell out for success that's silly anything you're interacting to the best of your ability to serve the moments of the folding in front of you like if it's a relationship I don't care if it's business I don't care if it's whatever it is right that's who you are that's what you're doing right and if you do that and not make it I want this and I I'm struggling to make my spirituality fit inside this business now your spirituality doesn't fit inside the business if there's no difference in spirituality in business period there's nothing between relationship and spirituality or business or said that they're all just life and so you're centered enough to realize that and now life is coming at you and it's a business servant do the best that you can to do the best you can in business why in order to let go of the parts of you that doesn't want to or is afraid or it can subtype because somebody doesn't agree with you or anything everything in business as a teacher they're saying that you're related if you're a boss you're related with your employees if you're not a boss relationship with a boss every single thing is about spirituality it's all about taking that part of your being that you wouldn't be interacting with if you're sitting in a house meditating but now you have to deal with that part of your being you're saying that okay so how are you going to deal with that from a spiritual point of view and that's what you're doing it's all spiritual it's all based on spirituality there are no other concepts of views or opinions or preferences except I'm liberating myself every moment of my life to raise myself to the highest state that can be inside and then giving that to us in front of me that's the motive and purpose of your life there's no other motive there's no competition it all fits if you do that okay anything even the really sensitive things you're a woman in business we know what can happen to do different things right so instead of you know getting angry and closing down and judging they're all kind of drunk you look at that part of you because you know men have that part too like children everybody's got that part it's just not the same topic you know what I'm saying but it's the same thing right and you look and you say how can I deal with this I'm not saying it's not happening right how can I deal with this that sets an example of how there can be more peace and Harmony in this world right and you start to experiment with okay somebody mistreated you know didn't treat with respect or something like that right right how what's the best way to deal with that because I'm able to I'm the spiritual being I'm able to maintain peace even though part of me is upset a part of me is offended okay now what what what can I do what can I do to raise me raise everybody else how can I use this to the benefit of everything wow that's not denying that happened you're not stepping aside and not being part of the program right you're actually being wiser than the person that's out there screaming or throwing rocks yeah which has never done any good but it doesn't mean you're not interacting you see what I'm saying it doesn't mean you're not protesting it doesn't mean you're not doing what you can to raise it but you're not doing it because you couldn't handle it you're doing it because you could handle it now what can I do to help that's how to be an activist that's how to do things wow so it's serving the path in front of you versus finding reasons why not to or finding a way to make it be the way that's the key right there I'm not okay I need to manipulate and control everybody and everything in front of me right so that it bees the way that makes me feel better it doesn't make me feel worse as opposed to I am okay and I'm not totally okay but I'm working on myself to be okay right you're always growing right I am okay now I'm the best person to deal with the situation because I'm not reacting with all the negativity but I'm able to bring something higher to the situation yeah so if that's why I say it's not that you're announcing life yeah we're announcing life you're letting go of the party that's making a mess in life yeah what would imagine this what if everybody we're talking about everybody the leaders everybody there'd be no Wars let me know anything you've heard John Lennon imagine all the people that ain't gonna happen with that garbage is going on inside yeah yeah and you know also in our community we have you know discussions around you know having boundaries or you know for example a lot of people believe that having boundaries um is essential or critical for your professional and personal well-being but of course in your teachings and I get a sense that that's actually still closing you off yeah I was able to find your boundaries everybody defines your boundaries based on their stuff is that there like I always say the thing you know it used to be that the gentleman would open the door for late I used to be a thing right now you have woman's living you have people like that they say I can open up my own damn door but it's not with you you think I'm I'm insulted because you open the door how does anybody know all right so all of a sudden a boundary or is that boundary which is right your boundaries are what you have problems with inside correct wow all right and so everyone's got different to admit that yes well of course it is all right so everybody has different boundaries right so I'm Jewish all right there are anti-semitis out there I know that okay where do I draw my line right if somebody looks at me funny right do I say something if somebody makes a comment right a name whatever right something like that you know where is it well my lines can be different than somebody else's or something this or that like so your your boundaries are being set by that which you're able to handle that you can't handle it put up with that anymore right that's like there are people who make it through a marriage problem I've met many of them that are on the verge of divorce okay because of different Behavior or different things like that and they make it through how do they make you through not by forcing these boundaries you say that what you did was not acceptable and I that's that I can't forgive that now that doesn't do it right it's like they say okay okay and every life some Rain Must Fall and I can deal with this I can deal with this and not let it ruin our relationship wouldn't that nicer yeah right but that doesn't mean that there are not natural unfoldings where the relationship ends it's just that's it's not because I'm reacting or build I'm not forcing a boundary it just naturally doesn't hit anymore it unfolds all right and so as much to me as much as possible you use life to let go of yourself okay now you've heard me I've talked to the last time if there's physical abuse right I don't even call that a boundary that's a no-brainer your body is a gift that was given to you nobody has the right to physically abuse your body period right so you know that's a hard stop but not because I've decided right it's just appropriate it's dharmic right it's just the appropriate thing it's either you don't have the right so he he or she doesn't have the right to do it and you don't have the right to let it happen you're saying that okay and so I don't want to call it a boundary all right it's just basically a natural unfolding of the process of life you start dealing with psychological stuff I don't know what you said unless you wore I don't like this I don't like I don't like what you're thinking right now you're building artificial boundaries inside yourself that will lock you off you know what those boundaries are places that you're hiding that you can't you can't nothing can come in and I can go out either wow you're saying that you can't express yourself yeah so as much as possible that you know extremes are hard to talk about it if it's extreme go for it work with it all right but that's not what people are talking about boundaries they're talking about I have a way I like things to be and I have the right to have to be that way and you just crossed over that boundary but you're not gonna have very good relationships because everybody's different than you yeah and you're busy judging right so wow about to talk about a hard throw it away but let's get a little more open it's all about openness it's all about there's a life on this planet it's unfolding in front of you can you enjoy it can you live with it not if you build these hard boundaries it has to be exactly the way I like it yeah it makes sense because you're closing even more off of that that's true 99 that you have an experience have your own experience forget the ones you're not having wow yeah my favorite word is you know what you've collected in there over the course of life it's statistically insignificant compared to how much is going on that's just in your town how much is going to compare to what you experience any one moment you see that well what about the Earth what about the planets you don't know squat you never experience anything it's truly statistically insignificant what you've gathered in there now let's build some boundaries based on it let's have opinions perfect soap streams concert views manipulate everything that's why there are Wars that's why there's that's why everything's a mess because everyone had different experiences they all have different concepts of what they want going on and they're out there fighting with the moment I'm folding in front of them yeah that's sad when it can be beautiful doesn't mean that stuff's not happening but you can handle it and deal with it at a much higher level so um I think we talked a lot about the services and the thoughts it's in your third book you also touched on emotions too which is you know our higher self sort of witnessing and experiencing um and in the book there's a you know beautiful paragraph I just wanted to quickly quote here many intellectuals just want to keep it suppressed because it is much too sensitive and reactive they would rather live in the mind because they have more control there somebody hurts you you feel an uncomfortable emotion you go right to the mind and rationalize it away um I you know quote this this particular one because we also have discussions going on in our community talking about exactly how do we sort of handle emotions when it you know happens right and I often hear people either say I'm gonna manage my emotions control them better or um you know people will just say I'm too afraid to lean into emotions because I might get lost in it so in your opinion or sort of thing to practice the surrender what would be a sort of a healthier way to experience emotions exactly like you handle the win now let's take the two things you just talked about right I'm going to purify these emotions keep them away all right that's like saying I don't want wind blowing across my face what if it is I'll hold up a four by AP Supply with okay well you're gonna get very tired and your entire life will be devoted to holding up that plywood wow because you can't handle the wind blow across your face right I'm afraid of it I'm afraid that if I let it in too close like it will hurt me and I'll get lost right that's like saying I'm afraid of the wind right well what's the right way to handle wind nothing you let it blow past you wind is just blowing past you who had said you're handling it you let it blow past you what happens when it blows fast me it's gone it blew past you what happens again a little blood pressure there's you don't have to resist you don't have to control you have to be afraid you have to make decisions you literally sit there and say wind has the right to exist and and I am able to handle experiencing the way not to do anything what do I have to do to experience it nothing doership is about not experiencing it or making sure it's not there right otherwise it okay that's what emotions are there are natural emotions because you have all this stuff stored inside of you right it's trying to release that's what all that emotions are is that blockage is trying to release it's all stuck down there it's energy it needs release all right fine welcome it here it comes oh but but I I I I feel concerned to meet this person right fine let it go what do you mean Let It Blow past you don't control it don't fight it don't not like it just say this is normal human stuff right fear and anxiety and that kind of stuff let it come up and see if you can breathe through it now you won't be able to do it at first because you're that I put it you store that stuff down there because you couldn't handle it and now you can handle what comes back up either all right so you know what I teach very gentle start with the tiniest things in the world the fact that it's raining and you're concerned that you might get wet okay or something like that all right or you might be late to get Silvers right and all these emotions are coming up well they're not helping anything they're saying that they're not going to make it not late they're not gonna make nothing all right therefore I would say you're business people right the cost benefit analysis is 100 costs zero benefit but we don't tend to make those decisions the business do we okay but it really is a hundred percent cost to have this going on and they're bothering you there's no benefit to it none it's not rational okay start with the small stuff and say okay I'm going to practice letting go I'm going to practice letting it Blow past me you won't be able to do it with the big stuff you don't do with the middle stuff to start with but you could do it with a small stuff right it starts to come up and you look at it and say no come on we can handle this right keep your hands to yourself you have inner hands that manipulate things in there is he doing right no just relax the key is relaxation resistance is the opposite relaxation relaxation is the opposite of resistance you can't resist while you're relaxing resistance requires tension and fighting and so on so when it comes up little things they come up practice letting go practice just relaxing is the hands start to move just relax them don't fight them just relax and see if you can just let it pass by and you can it's small enough you can let it pass by understand that okay and you start with the small stuff and then you'll be practicing as they practice piano or practice anything else all right practicing Letting Go practicing letting the emotions exist don't suppress them don't fight them don't hate them little ones let them come let them pass you can find out my God I can do that and I'm happier of course you are you didn't make a big deal out of nothing you're saying that yeah right so when I did the interview with Oprah in the new book she said her favorite line in the new book was the moment in front of you is not bothering you you're embodying yourself about the moment in front of you let's make sure you get that the wind is not bothering you you're bothering yourself about the wind the fact that your hair got a little frizz in the in the humidity right is not bothering you you're bothering yourself about it do you understand that yeah have anybody yourself about it it's not bothersome is it yeah absolutely oh that's the key that's what you do with emotions you let them pass and eventually they all will and I can't you know my mind is I notice this is my mind talking like okay so where do they go then so I let the emotions pass yes and then just pass through me right and then I'll just pass through well where's the wind go I purposely use the word written on purpose where's the window where does the river go when it's the ocean wow this passes through wow yeah and also I think in the book and you use the analogy of the sunset too right and just like watching a sunset it comes all the way in if you are open it all comes all the way in merges back into into the experience of self and the experience of being that feeds you you become a greater being because like the ocean is greater because the river flowed into it wow right okay you're greater because this came up and passed through you and you learn from it it became part of you it doesn't be mental right and then the next happens and eventually you become this open open being that everything can flow through all right and then what's left is beautiful it's empty I'm getting very Buddhist then yeah right yeah the Deep teachings of the doubt this is the Dow exactly that's actually one of my favorite chapter two in neon tether so where you talk about the middle way when you you get into your desire or resist too much that's extreme and this whole thing we're practicing just releasing and relaxing and then it normally goes into or back to its most balanced get away one of my favorite teachings of the Dao allowed to in terms of so many beautiful examples he uses is he says that the hollowness of the ocean bed is greater than the height of the mountain the mouse is big strong thing but there's this this hollowness in the ocean bed and why the water naturally flows off the mountain and goes into the bed the bed doesn't have to try the mound can try to hold on to the water of struggle but it can't everything ends up in the in the in the ocean bed right so the ocean bed is the natural now it's the natural opening where all of life just naturally comes there so the same thing with you when you become empty of all this resistance and all the struggling right doesn't mean you're not doing anything you don't get anything it all flows into you wow you become what he calls the low like you see it the low area yeah it all comes down into that it's so beautiful Mickey um I want to ask you perhaps my last question um around because I know um you know we're having this interview on this beautiful Serene ground that you built 50 years ago called Temple of the universe and you so graciously open it to people around the world who can come here and you know meditate and listen to your talks all for free and it's just so beautiful um and we of course when I say we I mean me and my three other funders and we wanted to also build a community um but it's online right so we wanted to make sure that we have a place for people who are seeking internally and who are sincere Seekers right who want to have this spiritual growth um I'm curious like what advice would you have you know for people like us and maybe many more out there who want to start fostering this community like Network to help people build connections and you know search internally deeper I can only share my experience right and the answer is I didn't do this okay um work on yourself become the doubt okay become empty the you know the kind of thing I'm talking about right not the terms you're not working and so on right but inside you're pure you've opened up all right and it will naturally what is supposed to take place will take place okay next thing you know you're attracting people because you're cleaner right and then next thing then it tells them and this happens and that happens and all of a sudden this natural unfold that's the most beautiful it happens right and you know you're not the Doer the only thing you're doing is letting go right and then serving what's unfolding and what unfolds is by naturally that the beauty of what you create and allow inside of you is going to spread it's going to open right there's not you have a concept I need this and I need that an investor I Need an Angel and I have this how do I get this how to get the money it all unfolds naturally right and you then stay at peace all right you're not the doer that's struggling while you're serving in the end all you're doing is serving why because you don't need anything you're filled with love you're filled with joy you're filled with Clarity right and you're interacting with every moment in life okay and then basically what is there to do but to give you don't need anything we no longer take her and there's no struggle those are the Deep teachings all right there's just being serving being serving wow being serving I'm having emotional moments right now um I know that's deep teachings but it's something I I feel like it's a deep deep truth that can be shared by many people not just to have two of us here so what a moment thank you so much Miki um I just wanted to say you know during this month a little over a month and Lincoln and I had the opportunity to share um um you know experiences with uh Community you know members here and also be able to just experience you as person right not just New York Times best-selling author you know founder of two successful companies and to me truly what almost me the most is to see how you practice this is your life's walk right this you're not just merely discussing this as Concepts you literally walk the path yourself um and you're still leaving it and every day like when you came to the temple you say hi to people and people ask you how are you and you reply ecstatic because you want you want more than just good right and you want all people to feel the joy and also when you know we were in your presence we were leading the Passover event and you know I saw you so you were telling the um stories about how Jesus you know about to surrender his life and you became so emotional and tears swelled up and well what a moment for me to experience this deep deep compassion and generosity that you have not just for the people who come before you but the vast vast humanity and what a treat I just want to thank you so much for being a role model and you're a man of commitment dedication and above all of love and I I feel that I connected with that so thank you I'm so grateful well thank you and uh it's true I would love everybody for the Exotic people thought about how do we solve all the problems in the world you know politics this that all kinds of nerves right becoming ecstatic if everybody is filled with love and joy inside themselves right there are not community's problems right and so that's how we go about raising things or raising ourselves is I always say you changed the world one person at a time you wow okay yeah thank you thank you for listening thank you for this opportunity to talk to everybody thank you thank you so much Mickey foreign

Channel: Effie Cao

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Id: YYugYykc4ns

Length: 61min 30sec (3690 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 10 2023