Interview: Michael A. Singer on The Untethered Soul

[Music] so I'd like to begin today by introducing Michael singer the author of the untethered soul and also the author of the surrender experiment and we're here with our new Harbinger publication staff to celebrate the 10th anniversary of this phenomenal look that has changed so many lives and actually at this point we know it's changed over a million lives because they also reached over a million copies and it's been translated into 32 different languages worldwide so it's reached even even more than a million honestly this book has really changed my life personally as well I just have to mention that so thank you for writing it and thank you for publishing it with new Harbinger the untethered soul is a book that begins by walking you through your relationship with your thoughts and emotions helping you uncover the source and fluctuations of your inner energy it then delves into what you can do to free yourself from habitual thoughts emotions and energy patterns that lemon your consciousness and finally with perfect clarity this book opens the door to a life lived in the freedom of your innermost being so Mickey I was thinking we could perhaps just begin with a few definitions of the terms that you use in the book and I know people use these these words in different ways and I'd love to hear you talk about how what your definition of self-realization started the well everything has levels obviously right and so let's take the simplest level of the term self-realization you are in there I always play with people when I start and I ask hire you in there hi are you in that right I'd done that for 45 years and I've never ever had anybody say no okay hi are you in there and then the question is who is that that is aware that they are in there hmm and our tendency is to think that I am the body I am this package of body and mind and emotions that's the I that's who I am right and the book very clearly from the main things enter little does is walk you through showing you that's not true all right that if your body well once your body was 15 years old and now it's 50 years old right it has gone through some rather dramatic changes but you're still in there and they used in there now looking at a 15 to 50 year old is the exact you that was in there looking a 15 year old and you know that all right so you didn't change one iota but your body went through so on some people have accidents or something goes wrong and they lose a limb or something it's still them they did not change one iota they're just aware that you know like my body's not in the same stay as it used to be all right so the question becomes who is this that is looking at the body in the mirror not what is the body they're looking at who are you all right and then you work through the process of well I'm my mind I have these thoughts right but who's aware of your thoughts I don't want to get into the whole discussion we're gonna have today and just one answer but you are aware of your thoughts the exact you who looks at your body in the mirror is the you that notices that your mind is saying I'm not sure what he's talking about or I've ever studied that come on we've studied this stuff for years everybody knows this already whatever the minds saying you are watching that so the question becomes in the end who are you when your heart goes through different changes some people come and they say my heart hurts I always tell them I'm not a therapist they wouldn't let me be a therapist you don't want to come to me one-on-one because you come to me and you say my heart hurts I'm gonna ask you how do you know and that's not what you expect me to ask you how do you know your heart hurts and you're gonna get mad at me and say because I'm in here and see the thing who is who are you that's watching your horror is it the same you who watched yourself feel loved what your heart feel loved now you're watching the heart hurt of course it is there's tears you are in there self-realization in its simplest sense is to say you have realized who's in there you have realized that you're not your mind you are not your emotions you are not your body you're certainly not anything you're looking at your car your house they can change you're still there right who is the unchanging one who is the one that's always there and has been in there from the beginning all right and someday you will be on your deathbed and you will be watching yourself take your last breath and watch your mind say oh I had a nice life or a heaven and you just be there you're there so this is the self this is the optimum this is the soul so self realization is that you have returned to that seed of being and that's the beginning of self-realization that's the minimum I have realized what I'm not okay all right now the question is Who am I now that I've returned to the seat of my being where did it come from what is the source of consciousness what's the source of self all of that falls into the realm of self-realization and so there are these different aspects of our being and part of this journey is realizing by learning to watch your thoughts that you have these different aspects to your being is that right you are the being that has these aspects I'm not going to call the consciousness an aspect of your being just like as people say to me do do you believe people have a soul and I'd like to use shock therapy so I say no people don't have a soul they are the soul that's what the word soul means you who you are you don't have one you have a car you have a purse you no soul you are the one that has these things so that aspect of yourself is yourself it is the awareness of being if I take away what you're aware of you're still aware that it's not there if I take away your awareness it's over I've turned off the light there's nobody there so that's who you are all right then you are aware of these different aspects of your being you are not an aspect of your being hmm that's a good distinction and so how does this psyche develop in our in our being I'm I'm imagining that at some point maybe when we were born that we were more that we were more aware of our awareness that we were mmm perhaps operating more from our consciousness and then the psyche starts to develop and I'm wondering that's very deep and I say here no you're asking a very very deep question there are answers very soon that psyche starts to take over essentially and then how how that develops and and how we become separate it's easy yeah the answer is easy but we're so lost in it that we can't see it it is not true that when you are born that necessarily you are more centered in the seat of self and then some terrible things happen and you get that mm-hmm the Masters you're gonna do Stu teach this says the moment the consciousness of self drops into the body the experience is so intense it's overwhelming right it's like you just all of a sudden thrown into the water with fish swimming all around you've never been there before right it's so distracting it's so powerful the experience is so powerful that it pulls your consciousness into the experience so that happens immediately all right that you have become separate from who you are because you're busy paying attention to the object of consciousness instead of your seat of consciousness so the more distracting something is the more powerful the experiences the more distracting it is distracting is the most spiritual words you'll ever use it means it pulls you away from yourself it means consciousness I was looking at that book then you started talking it distracted me my consciousness went to you pull alright so when something distracts you it draws your consciousness toward it so when you drop into the body when you take birth right your consciousness is pulled into this experiential unbelievable experience of the senses coming in of noises and sounds and things and blah blah blah right and so it immediately becomes distracted into the body and into the world okay and then what happens is that's not comfortable there's a sense of loss of self okay I don't know who I am right this is where as a psychologist somebody stays this stuff it becomes very interesting psychology then the self is not that the self-concept develops we do it we pull the self concept around ourselves to protect ourselves the self does that the consciousness doesn't know itself it loses itself it's been drawn away from itself so there's this sense of loss a sense of discomfort a sense of disorientation it's very much like if somebody get has amnesia and when they could wake up for Anna neva they're not comfortable there's no one ever been comfortable when they wake up and they don't know who they are who their family is or where they live or where they're huh they don't know a single thing they panic right that is what happens when you lose your seat of center itself so now because you are uncomfortable you immediately try to define yourself try to cling or hold on to things that will help you define the reality that you're dealing with right or Enda exactly and that's where the self-concept comes from and as a mother you know that starts pretty early right that they start developing you're my mommy that's the first one that's my daddy this is my crib the psychologist will tell you the worst thing you can do to a child is put them in a different place every single night with different toys and different people understand that because they can't find the solidity of defining themselves and so we start to develop this self-concept in our mind that's what we call it a concept it's not the self it's a concept of self a concept is something that's not real it's a mental image it's a mental thought okay so we start to develop in our minds this is mommy this is daddy this is where I live this is my crib this enlike toy this is they said that's what the mine comes from and that's why they're so strong about the mind in the terrible twos right is it says not that you took my toy you took me right I have to find myself in relationship to this object don't touch it don't take it away and it's panic right you'll see the crying and the tremendous clinging to objects that it is the self the lost self the Fallen soul all right that has lost itself that is trying to redefine itself in these objects outside but that doesn't stop with the terrible twos we then develop not just objects but a concept or self as experiences happened to us we define ourselves by the experiences we had it's hilarious all right you are not the experience you're the one who had the experience but if I play Dorothy in fifth you know third grade Wizard of Oz right and I'm the big hero and I did a great job that becomes part of my definition of Who I am if I'm 30 years later and we're talking about the school play there's a reunion and somebody else says I play Dorothy you freak out well I played Dorothy in that play you said that it's like 20 years later you will fight for your right to hold on to your definition of yourself because you literally defined yourself as the one who played Dorothy as the one who married Paul as the one who's has two children as as the one who went to school over here you're defining yourself as the experiences you went through because those are the images that are there the data that went into your mind and that's why every one of us define ourselves separately differently and our definitions of self keep changing right if you say well well I'm I'm Paul's wife what happens you get divorced right well now I'm Ben's wife but you didn't die because you're not with Paul you understand that but you hold on inside of you I'm the one who had that terrible experience with Paul so that's how you develop this self-concept somebody once asked Yogananda I'd like to turn back to the masters right despite the best rooms are very deep they said what is the ego he heard of Freud said about it right they literally asked a master enlightened master what is the ego and he said the masquerading self hmm in other words the facade you pulled over your consciousness to define yourself it is the masquerading self alright so we're building our personality in order to orient ourselves to this experience this is the right to feel safe in the world look there's all these objects going on out there what's my relationship to him what's my relationship to you what's wrong like that cars mine not that one but we're trying to define ourselves to keep ourselves oriented in the ever-changing world and that's why we limit our universe to certain people certain places certain things right and try to keep it in order like some people say oh he's a control freak everybody is a control freak don't kid yourself it's just somebody's a little more extreme than somebody else you need things to be the way you think they are right if you went home one day and your house wasn't there I don't mean an empty lot there was never a time but was there and you went by and knocked on your neighbor's door they don't know you right you freak you would freak out right because that's how you orient and know yours that's correct that's right that was that story that point really has nothing to do with you you're in there you're experiencing the houses without your house the same as you experience the house with your house you're the experiencer you're the consciousness right but you have to find a mindset and you're resting on it to say this is reality right according to GARP this is according to you right and therefore that you need yours to be the way you defined it to be or all hell breaks loose inside and we have so many emotions attached to those parts of our environment being where we want them to be I mean I'm just thinking about as you're describing the personality they're very important to us I mean that I guess that's the illusion it's that we so deep you stay so beautiful talk about this every single one of those emotions and all of the important to this is because you're panicked in there and lost and this is how you're clinging how you're defining that it's okay that's why there's so much emotion behind it the the only real emotion is the fear is that deep you know I'm talking about that deep fear that it will fall apart or something will go wrong or I'll say something right there's just that underlying insecurity of you know what you presented was fake that's why you're selling it all the time that's how you worry about what you look like and what you're wearing and you meet somebody new on how to sell yourself again or you did real well thanks to the situation's are really bad right why don't you do bad in everybody boo shoes as you do really really good they invite you back you got to do it again put yourself on the line you understand that yeah right you're risking failure right and maybe the most powerful people feel this and that drives them right so what you're driven by is the fear of failure you're driven by the fear of rejection you're pretty normal human stuff isn't it right that deep-seated fear is the original panic that I talked about it's still there that I'm lost as long as I can get things to be the way to find them I can feel safer I get supported close-support right support your concept now I don't have to feel my panic all the time but it's still there right you can be very happy with your family and everything's wonderful and then somebody dies or somebody leaves yeah so wonderful anymore you fall right back into it it doesn't change one single iota all right it's like so the question is are you dealing with the core or are you dealing with the facade and we are all dealing with the facade and trying to get the outside world to support the facade so that we don't have to deal with the core can you understand that absolutely I absolutely do and the and the the facade it feels like so much is dependent on the facade functioning right to keep everything going in our lives that we've also built this analogy of good no no please the analogy I like to use is you went to school high school whatever with a person that was so insecure he would never talk to anybody he was always scared very introvert I mean really just really far out there okay and all of a sudden you're growing up now when you get your Facebook page and somebody gives you a phone call then it's this kid I think about any strong talking hmm inviting you to come see him he never used to go outside by himself i sat in a park but you meet me at the park happened to be in the town where you are and so on I'd love to see you again you sit there and say God you've changed a lot I have completely I used to be so scared I'm not scared now anymore it's amazing I can go anywheres I don't feel the fair fear you go there to the park st. Paul and you're looking for Paul you don't see anybody but you see the most amazing scene you see about 10 of these giant you know football player muscle type people in a circle carrying the Uzis and then they k47 s all of them right and all of a sudden I hear a little sound from inside the circle here I'm here it's Paul Paul yeah I'm in here right and pulse I say see how much scared anymore I don't feel fear anymore I feel so secure I feel wonderful right oh that's what I'm talking about that's what we do the bodyguards that our whole life is a buddy Gordon the fact that the husband come on time that people treat you the way expect to be treated the fact that every single thing happened exactly the way you need it to be those are your muscle men and bodyguards and as long as that's going on you're okay relatively what if I go there and pay those bodyguards more than you pay them one two drop you know a hard time now Paul the nickel freaked out and that's what happens when your world falls apart that's what happens the minute anything is not the way you expect it to be you know some trouble don't you if the car in front is is driving a speed you're not comfortable with it's not what you're used to it's not the speed limit you have trouble don't you start talking in there and complaining right your husband's ten minutes late if if he comes home and and you you'll prepare dinner or God's special dates gonna happen and he in a bad mood so he just walks through and goes in his room oh that's not okay is it that's not okay to kind of stuff goes on in there that's the exact same stuff that Paul feels when one of those bodyguards falls down my shield my masquerading self did not do its job of protecting me from myself spirituality since we'll get there eventually is all about dealing with yourself instead of hiding from yourself working your way pass that panic that fear to where it will never return ever again and there's nothing but love and joy unconditional as to what is going on outside the peace that passes all understanding that's why so what would be the first step on that you have to face it your first step is like Freud said recognition you recognize yep it's true I am constantly trying to get things my way and I'm serious about it right there's a list of things that better be this way and there's a list of things that better not be this way and I am serious about that and I have completely devoted to making those things happen and not happen right well that's not a very functional thing to do with your life that is like Paul will keep using analogies like Paul making sure is enough money to pay to make sure he pays off those bodyguards and make sure their guns are working and they're well trained now you're going in the wrong direction Paul you know we don't want that to be your life right all right so the first is to recognize I have a problem and it's me and I'm not gonna solve it by hiding from it so it's not the problem is not that my husband came home in a bad mood and passed by me and missed all of the I'm a the missed the amazing feast I prepared and the the ambience I created that's not the problem the problem is how I feel the problem is you can't handle reality because you've defined a particular way to that because you're insecure and duration of business exactly right and you put a lot of energy into this to try to feel love and acceptance and all they know pay the bodyguards do the thing make sure the guns are good right it's just same thing and it didn't work mm-hmm right and they feel worse don't you feel more insecure you feel okay that's what happened it's almost as if what's your actually far more out of control by needing to be in control because you're gonna have to fluctuate that's exactly right with everything that happens it's out of your control officially so in fact you're totally out of control the more you're in control the more you need to be right that's very deep what you just said we define a world inside ourselves that supports our self-concept and we need that because we're hiding from ourselves behind the self-concept right and because we define the world that way we need them all to be that way but the world has nothing to do with oh we made up the world is what it is it's a reality's it's beating to a whole different drum it's beating to Sciences beating like hey then I rained it it's my birthday that that's stupid dumb what are you doing arrange something with your birthday has dude meteorology in low pressure zones right so you've now left yourself vulnerable to the unfolding of reality he's gonna destroy you so that's what you were saying and that's absolutely true so even if I sit down and I write my list to begin the day and then I follow that list in order to basically make myself feel less insecure the truth is I'm more vulnerable yes because things may interrupt that list that I don't have control over and then I will be sort of subject to that experience if you're living your life to hide from yourself you're not gonna get anywhere it starts you asked me how do you do this it starts when you say I don't know what that anymore I don't want my state of being to be completely dependent upon somebody else's mood upon how somebody else does or doesn't do or the etc chatter said rushing upon the unfolding of the weather slowly the world right I want to find my true being I want to find me in here and be okay then I'll come into the world it's not that you don't come let me come into the world would be motivated by love be motivated by compassion be motivated by creativity by inspiration instead of be motivated by fear which is what we are motivated by right okay I think the most powerful of us try to stay really powerful because the thought of I mean some of these very powerful people the minute they're out of office or out of this or finances go wrong they're jumping off buildings right or wrong it did happen didn't it right okay that's because they were not powerful they were supported by something because they were needing and then it was weak and that strength came from conditional by the conditional state the moment that conditional state went away well it's over I don't want to face this okay so Miki I would like to be okay what what should I do well first you recognize that despite all the games and you're a powerful successful woman between everything we're doing to try to be okay that it could fall apart in a minute in a minute just say one wrong thing just right you let's your note all the time doesn't it right this sneeze at the wrong time or burp or it's like it's so ridiculous it's ridiculous correct right so notice that something inside is not okay and it's trying to be okay by manipulating controlling the outer environment and then see how long you've been doing that I was asked people how will you've been doing that thing about trying to manipulate the outer environment so you can be okay inside how about your entire life exactly all right it obviously doesn't work as you're still doing it mm-hmm understand that if you if you keep doing something for 40 years to the best of your ability over and over again and you're still doing it 40 years later maybe you need to wake up and realize gee I think this doesn't work like I would have been done by now yes I should have been done by yes yes you should be fine by now look how hard you've tried all right right okay if you're just as vulnerable and you have to just as much make sure everything's okay to understand that and as when you were high school it was just different things all right so you first look at that and you decide I don't want to live like that not as for all not it's bad but if I have one life to live sitting on a planet spinner in the middle of nowheres I ain't living it that way like every else they want to live it that way that's their business right but I'm just sitting on a planet spirit a middle of nowheres and I'm scared to death constantly struggling why why and you realize because there is something inside I mean that it's not okay right and I'm trying to hide from it I'm trying to compensate for it why don't I just fix it and that's the first thing is it is fixable it is fixable doesn't make any difference what you've ever done it doesn't make any difference what anybody says right period it is completely and utterly fixable that you are not okay inside and it has nothing to the outside it has to do the fact that you are disoriented in there and you've looked the wrong way you've looked outside to define yourself instead of coming back inside to work with yourself that's the difference right so I don't want to not lie sir you can do it through questions right but that's a starting position right is you have to it's called recognition of the problem I've been looking outside to keep myself busy entertained distracted so I don't have to deal with what's going on in here and making everybody behave the way they're supposed to etc etc so I can be okay I want instead to hands-on directly start working with the part of me that's not okay that's the spiritual path okay and the part of me so let's go into that a bit more in the part of me that's not okay and moving more into that seat of awareness okay so you start I always tell people don't worry about big things just start with tiny little things all right every single day really every moment of every day something bothers you it starts raining bothers you I don't have to gather my card is ready I don't like when the thunders alright somebody talks too loud somebody talks too soft too many people get into the elevator to understand that I'm the kids are putting on their shoes I need to get in the car it's not thing right almost everything causes some disturbance inside right there's a disturbance it causes some not well-being well maybe that's extreme maybe it's I'll make it's okay for rains I think it's very big of you right since you can't do anything about it anyways right to go out for billions of years right so what if you just said I need to work with myself I'm out of control here right hey the weather is not mine I don't own it it's nothing to do with me why am i letting it bother me right why don't I sit there and say oh it's raining isn't that nice I told people here you live on a planet that water falls out of the sky if you're on Venus hydrochloric acid falls out of the sky right if you're on the moon there's no water Mars we haven't seen water flow out of the sky you live on a planet that water falls out of the sky isn't that nice and you just work with yourself and you sit there and say I am okay when it rains in fact I like it well I was supposed to go camping fine I won't I'd rather not go camping and enjoy my experience of not going camping then not go camping and make myself suffer because I thought I'd be happy going to camping Hey I knew start working with yourself you can change people learn calculus people learn to play the piano people learn to play tennis they weren't good at it when they started people all the time saying oh I'm not like that I can't do that of course you can't do it to start with you haven't ever you have the ability to learn it's the most important thing to learn how to be okay with reality it's a new game not how to try to make it be what I want you're not gonna do that it's just gonna make you miserable alright how can I learn to be ok with reality to enjoy reality you start with little things so you start with the weather right whatever one is really hot that is not it I can't tell people do you know what hot is you happen to be close enough to a star to feel its heat well people like stars we look over the Stars the romantic they're unbelievable imagine getting close enough to a star that it's burning you that's what's happening when you're hot wow that's pretty exciting all right you get to do this who's stopping you nobody it's your own world in there nobody else lives in there fix it make it you make your apartment nice make it nice inside all right so you start working with yourself with the weather then I mentioned the person driving in front of you I'm in a Russian they're going 45 in a 55 mile an hour zone and I can't pass them that's reality when you can pass them by all means pass them but if you're driving yourself crazy talking to them complaining about them asking what's wrong with them why don't they try the speed limit etc etc you're not doing anything but creating commotion and confusion and disturbance inside yourself right you know in business we do cost-benefit analysis knowing right right here's your cost-benefit analysis that cost 100% benefits zero what kind of person would make a decision like that it's crazy right so you decide to be rational some people say spirituality is not rational it is rational it's the only rational thing and so you sit there and say I okay yes when the person is driving that way I see the tendency to get disturb that's a habit I haven't learned to be higher than that I've let myself be like that my whole life well I'm gonna start to change I got change overnight but little by little I can say things like you know I like to drive faster they like to drive slower they have as much rice as I do all right I get to pass them when the lines are dotted but I know my here right I thought that my way is the best or right or ring like that it's just my way right so I honor and respect that this person is enjoying their day and I drop back a little bit and just say cool it it's okay we can enjoy this when it's time to pass will pass big deal two blocks later they turn and you made yourself you literally could ruin your day and tell everybody how a slow driver and what's irrational is wishing they were driving the way you want them to drive it's it's it's the only irrational it's Hitler risk it's like who are you right you're a dictator right why is your way right you follow me yeah absolutely right so you start to work with yourself it's a very personal thing that you do and you do it for the reason of realizing I am making myself miserable and then I'm expecting my husband and my children and the money to make me better I'm gonna kill myself and then have a vacation in Hawaii and it's gonna fix everything no it's not it's crazy wait you shouldn't even ever need a vacation you should enjoy your life so much that every moment of it is exciting is going anywheres else so you start by noticing and the book you you say what part of yourself is disturbed this one right so you start by noticing what part of me is disturbed by this event or this moment and then that just helps you realize that you are being disturbed versus projecting on to that car or that situation or that event is that right you is that you are in there mm-hmm how remember I said how do you know your heart hurts hmm how do you know you're disturbed I'm not interested in help disturb you are I'm not interested in why you're disturbed understand and how do you know you're disturbed somebody knows otherwise you wouldn't know right I know because I'm in here noticing this stuff in my stomach this stuff in my heart my mind whatever it is right I'm interested in you who notices and what you do is the minute you notice you relax there's the highest technique that exists but people misunderstand they think yeah but it won't relax I try the mind wonder that I didn't ask the mind to relax I didn't ask the heart to relax I didn't ask the body to relax I asked you to relax you in there who's noticing you're gonna want to do something about it same we're back to this discomfort the original primal discomfort you understand that right amazing that the car in front of you can make you go back there right then you start feeling uncomfortable right well you want to you want to defend yourself you wanna protect yourself so you start complaining yelling I'll never drive in this road before again but you you're doing that or every single thing you do is an attempt to protect yourself from what's uncomfortable right right the only thing that is meaningful to do when the disturbance is happening inside of you is to relax that's the highest way you can work your way through the disturbance is you don't resist it don't complain about it just relax so I'm not saying you don't do anything you do something you relax you just relax yourself relax your body relax your chest relax your buttocks just relax mostly there's the disturbance here's me I'm relaxing when you're relaxing you can't get engaged with the disturbance if I relax I can't fight with you understand that I've disengaged right and so I relax and what's gonna happen is because you relaxed that disturbance has room to pass through it'll pass through everything passes through a single thing in life that doesn't come and go it's been doing for 13.8 billion years right nothing stays the same it all comes and goes inside and we're just coming up well maybe not right away but over time if you leave it alone you're gonna realize it would just come and go and eventually won't even be there it won't be if somebody will drive in front of you and you'll forget to be bothered by it you'll get home and say god you know drop on this person think about it that was how we were driving this is what's happening now it's raining that's what's happened to you it didn't even come little by love you let go of the part of you that is using the world to define you right you're literally using the world I should be driving 55 miles an hour I have a place to go yeah so this is disturbing Who I am that's like that's what we're all bridges why would somebody get over and kill somebody because the speeds are driving because they'd actually challenged their ability to be themselves first and that I do and I'm thinking so I mean you talk about toward the end of the book the unconditional happiness and I'm thinking this is the moment of choice this is a choice this is the power you have to that's why choose which path you're gonna go and each moment you were given free will I don't go biblical on you but that is what that means doesn't mean you get to make mountains move and you get to make everybody be that's not the kind of free we're talking about in there there's nobody else in there that is your domain there's no competition no nothing it's completely your world it can be any way you want get to work I will I will do it I will do it now so I'm I'm as you're talking you're reminding me one of my favorite chapters in your book is chapter five on infinite energy and I'm wondering as you're talking and we're to discussing the disturbances I was thinking about the blocked energy that you talked about and the infinite energy and it would you share with us your thoughts about that how that works we have actually been discussing that the whole time exactly what happens is this you are a being of energy you know which you the consciousness the othman the soul the self call whatever you want all right awareness of being is power you are you have a nature like what your brute in nature you have a nature you in there right you have a nature you who sees it happens to be ecstasy joy love bliss power strength light it's beautiful you're beautiful okay that is your nature what you're looking at is not that way what you're looking at is what you built to lock yourself up in this little house that has to be a certain way every single thing that you have stored inside and that's what you're doing you're storing the stuff inside like circumstances happened in the past they're over I don't understand why they're still in there I really don't I don't understand right your mother died when you were five years old you're now 63 and every time you hear the word mother you start crying right and you resent it that she left you alone and you know you know you've done therapy right people have all these things why would something that happened fifty years ago and isn't happening ever again for 50 years still be happening inside of you because you couldn't handle it when it happened there's denna it came in it did not fit the world that you created therefore you didn't want to experience it there's our most important that you'll ever learn you literally didn't want to experience what actually you're experiencing but how do you not experience what you're experiencing you push it away you're in there with will you ever push an emotion away never push the thought away right before I had a name for that suppression that's what that is you are pushing the energy away so it doesn't come all the way in your face all the way up here you push it away inside when you do that it stays in there it stays in there and it doesn't every will be an ER deathbed it doesn't go away it doesn't just dissipate by itself it actually rots down there and that's all the psychology all psychology degrees when they there's the foundational psychology that you have held that stuff inside if you have a bad experience one person it is traumatic or it's traumatic mean I couldn't handle it I pushed it down there he keeps trying to come back up I can't do anything that reminds me of it the other person had the experience it was bad and they let it go then they didn't have a traumatic experience no experience is traumatic your inability to handle it makes it traumatic some people handle things felt that exactly I've always been fascinated when they're you know siblings and a family and they all experience the exact same event but they are affected so different that's right that's why so well do your energy will say focus when you push that down there it stays where it stays in you is actually in the channel where your energy flows it draws your consciousness to it even subconsciously you know that right therefore this energy that you are is being dissipated to whole you're both holding it down takes energy to hold it down right you're keeping it for coming back up you're expending all kinds of energy in order to deal with this that's where your energy is going I mean you do the same thing by the way with positive things right it's the emotional effort or it's more than emotion yeah you you asked about energetic exactly it's energy it's literally we call Shakti G Chi Shakti spirit all the same thing yeah that's the word for this energy sometimes you feel full of energy don't you sometimes you feel completely drained right that's not emotion that's energy right all right yeah your energetic level when you expand your energy to hold something in there that it's even happening anymore and you keep struggling with it or something good happen and you don't want it to stop somebody says something really nice to you you do what we call clinging Buddha's called clinging you hold it in there I don't want it to go away well then you miss everything else if he doesn't come back and say nice again you get disappointed so now you've expended energy clinging or you expended energy resisting but time I put those two things down there I've just defined all your energy understand that and you could be doing em all you say oh my god you're so multi cast it's unbelievable hey you could be doing them all at the same time about the same thing you can both look a love-hate relationship you get one situation happened you love that it was blue the other happened to freak you out is blue now what you're blue about blue you blew it it gets very complicated there doesn't it right and so now every thought you have and all the emotions you have are all tied up in that stuff you held inside now you have to struggle with your emotions now you have to build your ego and I have to maintain it you have used so much energy then no wonder you're tired don't wonder you don't go to bed then what do you want to sleep all the time no wonder everything irritates you you're over the edge right so you asked me about the energy this is the essence of yoga right let go that stuff I don't care what technique you use I'll give you meditate I don't care if you do mantra I don't care what you do turn mala B's I don't care right get rid of that stuff that you were holding inside and you will know everything there is to know about the energy and that's the question about as you let it go is it not true than a traditional Freudian psychology where you have a therapist working you through and finding mommy problems right that it often happens that when you finally have a psychological break through a therapeutic breakthrough that it's filled with energy can't even sleep at night for days you're just like all of a sudden a totally different person it's so excited right or wrong right you have released the energy that was being wasted on all of that stuff and by opening up that hole all of a sudden a natural energy flow he said but it won't stay you understand that they'll be the next one the next one the key is you in there have to decide I don't wanna live like this I don't want to do blocked I don't to serve my blockages right so what you do is you start doing we talked about little by little you let go you just keep letting go you keep letting go and little by little stuff keeps coming up and you keep letting go if you deal with the little things you it's not a big deal but you deal with little things you're training yourself it's like playing scales on a piano instead of sitting down a playmate over to start with right as you do that all of a sudden you naturally get better and because you let go with the rain and you let go the person driving in front of you let go the person who beeped at you and freak freak out right like well the person who yelled at you because they were having a bad day and you just keep letting go and letting go something bigger will come up from the past I guarantee you it will happen by itself in fact I'm putting the skull and crossbone on this I guarantee you it will come back up it does it in your dreams because you're not there to keep it down all the time understand that you will do it and during normal life little things will stimulate and often you'll feel kinda haven't felt this since my mother died or this is my first husband left or so on now if that sounds scary to you good right because you don't want that in there and it'll come up but now that you got better at it you just do the same thing you relax you let it pass doesn't matter if it takes 110 the 50 times the point is at least you're working with it to work it out to let it go instead of working with it to never talk about it and push it back down as you do that at some point it's gonna the tipping balance will be reached and all of a sudden you'll wake up one morning and there will be waves and I mean waves of ecstasy just pouring through you're being wave after wave throng upon throng higher than the highest love experience you've ever had right just no reason just absolutely pouring through your being that is your natural state that is who you are your if very high being and when you remove these blockages that energy can flow and then you'll go through the dam you'll feel this uplifting energy and somebody will say something or not say something and you'll notice that it's loaded down and you have a choice go with your stuff and lose the ecstasy or let go of your stuff and build the channel for this energy to flow and you just more and more every time I don't care how much it hurts I don't care what it costs I don't care what it is I am not giving up this energy you can do that with love you know you know people right when you fall in love and there's a beautiful experience you're experiencing some of that energy but then somebody does something or somebody says something or it's not what you expected you have a choice give up the love or let go of what bothered you isn't that the choice of a relationship okay so it's no different right except you're doing that with spirit you're doing it with Shakti you're doing it with energy that's yoga right spirituality and you just keep letting go and it gets stronger and stronger and there's no end to how high you can get you are infinite energies it's you know master you're gonna know what's said right you have to do these practices because if the energy ever flowed freely inside of you it'd blow you up you have to get used to be able to handle those amounts of energy so as you work your way through your chakras through the different energy systems right you're learning to handle these amazing amounts of power and at some point the energy doesn't stay inside of you so it's pouring off your hands off the top of your head is just pouring and people feel it that's the spiritual being that's why Saints have halos it is literally that energy pouring off that's why Christ could heal that's why it's it you are a great being you're a great being and that is true of every single person that walks the face of this earth right now what they do with themselves is sell out to this personal garbage game right they don't feel great they feel like beggars I have to have things a certain way so there there's your aunt that's all you need to know about energy so I believe in this chapter - you talk about letting pain through your heart because I can't help but think about things that are a little more difficult to let go of then perhaps you know the smaller steps we take with the rain or a driver we don't like but there of course things that are more painful are challenging and you know people who are close to that we lose and so you do talk about letting pain house through your heart and I love that phrase and you also talk about the heart chakra yes so I'm wondering if you can just go into that a little bit more as you let go you become more open I don't call rebel you become more open right when we're back to the analogy of my friend Paul's surrounded right way those people fell down oh my god I'm exposed right well you want to be if he wants to work through his insecurity problem he didn't do it he keeps his people around him with Uzis for 30 years they fall down he's gonna have a heart attack understand that he's not working at the right level mm-hmm so yes life has all kinds of things happen in life some of them when they come in or Pleasant and someone they come in are not pleasant not just because you have stuff in there right if you see a rattlesnake anybody it's it's a scary thing it's vibration is scary has its nature understand that if a butterfly comes and lands on you it's a beautiful thing it's vibration is pleasant and nice that's not you you're not doing that that's not psychological that's experiential see the difference yes all right so the question is are we willing to have the experiences that we have learn from them by all means not push them away learn from them I can learn from the rattlesnake I can learn from the fear it creates I can learn that he'll crawl away if I leave them alone right I don't have to do anything else but experience it and learn then became part of me doesn't mean I'm afraid of rattlesnakes from then on in fact I shouldn't be I am an experienced or a rattlesnakes I had the experience so now you want to go hiking with me because I don't freak out and you run around and throw things at him I've learned how to deal with rattlesnakes I've learned how to deal with death I've learned how to deal with divorce I've learned how to deal with different things that happen right does it mean I like it that I want it that it doesn't cause disturbance when it happens but I'm not reacting to that disturbance and letting the disturbance run in my life I'm maintaining centered and clear inside noticing that there's the event outside coming in and that it is not comfortable when it comes in I noticed that and I relax I relax and release it's always R&R relax and release you constantly relax and release and then your initial reaction of disturbance passes when the rattlesnake goes away why do I still feel disturbed hmm because I wasn't willing to accept the experience if you accept the experience as be here now if you accept the experience and it comes in when the experience is no longer happening you're just left a wiser person are they wise look was the experience that I had right I'm not still scared there's nothing to be scared of okay all right and so now that's how you deal with the situation in your life doesn't mean they're all pleasant nobody's saying if you meditate and do mantra read the Bible whatever it is that nothing use the word bad nothing bad will happen to you well I say nothing bad will happen to you is there is nothing bad there's just experiences that unfold right that we learn from all right doesn't mean they're comfortable but there's nothing wrong with something being uncomfortable hey no pain no gain we lift weights right or wrong don't we use that expression right right well why don't we use that inside right no pain no gain right when when when somebody's massaging you ever had a massage right so I'm massaging you and all of a sudden there's a sore spot what do you do you say oh there there it hurts really bad there you know darn well they're gonna go down deeper aren't they oh I don't understand inside you're a baby anything hurts no it's wrong don't touch me get away from me right literally right why don't we deal with it exactly the same inside so we deal with it outside and just sit there and say yes there are experience in life that are not pleasant good I like to learn from them does it mean I want to have them not praying for them right but if they happen to present themselves in front of me this is my opportunity to become a greater being to be able to handle the reality of life there and so that's also the thorn you talk about you can carry you let it go let things go yeah instead of crap and saving for them and learning how to be okay that it's there it's only there because inside there are no thorns there's no physical being it's a Furyk inside it's completely open okay how hard is if you to change your mind they're wrong right okay there's nothing in there it's just it's totally empty right it's just loose right it's looser than the clouds so why not make it mice in there so if something comes in and it's disturbing yeah I always tell people if you went through a traumatic terrible experience when you were young I wish I could go down there and beat the people up and go back in time and protect you oh I would love to do that but okay I can't and you can't either and nor can anybody else right so I will blame the person who mistreated you or did this thing to you when you were five years old yours innocent child right for causing the truck that problem then but they stopped they went away they move they died you know rest I don't care whatever it's over all right but you didn't let it be over for the next thirty years you did it I have to blame you for those thirty I can't blame them they're not there I can't blame the experiences not even happening how dare you blame the experience at having 25 years ago you are the one who chose to keep that inside of you and let it destroy your life you know that so relax and release everything that comes up learn I can be okay even though the heart hurts I can be okay even though the mind is complaining I can be okay even though I - and do that it's not my entender the dishes he left anyway that I could be okay letting go of that and dealing with a deeper part of my being your whole life will change and everyone around you will change everything will change correct yes and I was so if you if you're experiencing the deeper part of your being what's just going back to what we started with which again is the idea of control that you're so dependent on things being a certain way in order to feel happy or content but what you're saying is we can feel happiness or content a different kind if we're that deeper being do a complete and whole within yourself you need nothing to happen a certain way or to be a certain way you're the one who set up the condition that she said I'll only be okay if he does this somebody else son or freak out if he does that yeah a thing is nothing in and of itself as an event it's because you have a preconceived notion inside yourself based on all your we call some scara's past impressions right about how you want things to be don't want them to be it takes two to tango it takes the event and your attitude about the event you changed your attitude about the event everything changes doesn't it right that's not clean first thing we can go right you change your attitude about the event it's as if the event changed everything changed and the attitude is remembering that you have this choice the attitude is remembering that reality is bigger than you and I mean a lot bigger than you right right we tell everybody the moment that's unfolding in front of you how many other moments are happening in the universe there aren't I'm falling in front of you 700 billion zillion why is the moment in front of you any different than those it's not look to the right you'll have a different one look to the left you'll have a different one there is nothing special about the moment that's unfolding in front of you there is nothing special about the moments that haven't fuller in front of you except that they're the ones you saw right how can you let that totally random thing that the universe is doing its thing and I happen to see this part this tiny part right now determine Who I am right so it's just thinking okay I missed my flight okay I missed my flight that's right so this is reality enjoy it enjoy your little vacations in the hotel the next flight right right it's not gonna what does it do to resist it right right it's amazing it's so simple so yeah that's correct we don't do it because we don't do it for the exact reason that even though I've talked to Peter or Paul over and over again that this isn't how you give her the security right and he understands he's not ready to let them go is it he's scared he has to face that fear you have to face the fear how do you face the fear by relaxing in face of it in the face of it you relax so you're feeling it you're just allowing the feeling to come in look if a drug addict is going to go off of drugs they're going to go through withdrawal okay that's perfect are they willing to is it worth it and then you start to shift you don't always react in the same way you were sick earlier so you can actually start it's it's like spiritual muscle you're building that capacity to let go we're not building the capacity to control building the capacity to relax in the face I always teach this first let go then if it's still there deal with it you're gonna find out that 95% of the time once you relax and let go there's nothing left to deal with if somebody walks up you say hey Sally how are you doing she doesn't try not to say hello and she's your friend okay no there's there's an experience it's not comfortable what's wrong why shouldn't you know blah blah you should not hear me all that stuff goes on right relax through it relax through it okay okay fine that's what happened now what are you gonna do about it nothing she's not there anymore there's nothing to do right and you're crazy it's the next time you see say why didn't you pay them you wouldn't do that because you handled it there's no reason to say anything what a nice person you are maybe she didn't hear you maybe she's in a bad mood who cares right so if you are willing to let go you're gonna find out the vast majority of the time there is nothing to do about it except let go now sometimes there is sometimes you let go I dealt with this but there's actually something going on out there I need to deal with okay you will be so much better dealing with it because you're actually dealing with the situation instead of dealing with your disturbance about the situation there's a most important thing I'd like to understand that yes right if you're disturbed by it you're gonna be trying to not be disturbed nobody says that what you're saying or doing in order to make yourself not feel disturbed is the right thing to do about the situation understand that it's only the right it's only you hope the right thing to make you feel better that doesn't say it's the right thing to do in that situation you're a husband or a boyfriend on the way out the door in the morning says you know I don't want to about right now I don't have time but I've been having some trouble and when we come home tonight I want to have a serious talk I bring that up in the morning you couldn't wait to wake up result is right it's gonna create some disturbance inside of you right I what good does it do to be doing that all day right the answer is nothing now watch this now what comes night because you did that all day I'm gonna tell you what that conversation can go like this this poor guys having some problem he said he wanted to talk about it that's nice relation was close enough that he wants to bring it to you right you're gonna sit down and the minute he sits down you're gonna say come on I have been so giving to you in this relationship I don't understand how you could have a problem right didn't I do this when that happened and I wasn't there for that and don't we sure the bank account I work and do this stuff when you had a problems I don't understand you're gonna sit there and try to make yourself feel better about the fact that this guy wanted to talk to you so you're just how's that help him right and you're trying to change the realities exactly right because you don't feel comfortable with it the alternative is to say oh okay this is not comfortable of course but good at least we're gonna have a talk and something's bothering somebody I want to know about it thank you I appreciate I'm scared of course I am I feel anxious about it right but I appreciate this opportunity I am looking forward to hear to what they have to say and you sit down and you'd be quiet for a moment and you're able to cuz you didn't disturb yourself about the whole stupid thing so if you can handle what's gonna happen you will do better and you know as a therapist relationship wise you are better off listening Yeah right right and you can ask what part of me is disturbed and you know what part it is myself concept right I thought this relationship was stable and I've done this you know what part is the eye you'll hear talking I do this I don't deserve this my pants really suppose like that I thought he'd be different me I me and mine balloony go or he's not gonna love me the eye right yeah I have five you threatened that's right what if you were in ecstasy that's where I want you you're literally waves of joy and love and ecstasy you sit on the toilet you're feeling you wake up you feel you're driving you feel it just that's what's going on and you're your special significant person says to you you know I'm having some trouble I wanna have a talk tonight you say oh boy that'll be fun right cuz it has nothing to do with you it has to do with them so let's go there let's talk about the transcendental love or ecstasy that we've that we could dwell within finding that very appealing look is your natural state it is your natural state you're living in an unnatural state just like Paul behind those boozy holdings muscleman right that's a very unnatural state right and you have to support that in the natural state so you're living in an unnatural state and you're saying the other way I can feel love is if everything right now the only way a human being feels love is when everything lines up that matches the junk they built inside if you talk to me the way I want to be talked to if the lighting is right and if there's nothing on my mind from work and if you're wearing you're not wearing a bowtie right it's like everything has to be exactly matching what you have inside to understand that and then you will open you're willing to open because I feel safe because it matches my stuff alright if they create the right environment or or by luck it happens whatever it is right and all of a sudden I feel love what you're feeling is your natural state that's being blocked because you're closed by this stuff right if you have blinds and they are closed it is not true you have to beg and pray to the blinds - please let some light in there the giver of light no there the blocker of light do you understand that your ego and your way of wanting things are blocking you fulfilling love all the time when the mind gets what it wants it will open then you can feel the nature of your being so when you feel love that is who you are you've heard that you are loved all right you are like you are loved right but you won't do it because your mind won't let you because you're busy protecting yourself so you know you'd be willing to say I am gonna let down these shields I'm gonna take the blinds off the windows so I don't have to pay them to open understand that because the light is the natural state it's not something you have to pay for or go to sell yourself out for or anything so it's all a matter of letting go Christ said you must die to be reborn that is exactly what we're talking about you go let go with a personal self and you don't do anything else understand that when something's exactly the way you like and it's perfectly matching what you want all right now how can I feel joy know when it is you feel joy you understand that yes okay it's the same thing with this when you let go of your personal self with all these likes and dislikes and wants and conditions right what is left is your spiritual being alright and that being is transcendental that being is independent of this world it is watching the world but it is not of this world it is the consciousness that is aware of what it's looking at you come back to the source the source of your being and that we've talked about self-realization that is one level of liberation or self-realization you have freed yourself from the bondage of yourself there are saying that ya know if we built to orient ourselves the lower that's called the lower self right if the higher self has freed itself of the bondage of the lower self by doing what by knowing it's not me and I don't have to spend my time servicing it I can rest back into the nature of my being that's the beginning of true self-realization and true liberation where the great ones have gone the enlightened masters right is from that scene I'm still separate I'm still the consciousness that is looking at Mickey that is looking at this mind and so I can handle it I'm not getting pulled into it right I'm free of that game right but I'm still a separate entity Jerry I'm a separate entity watching this right the less interested you get in yourself the more you get involved and the flow of the ecstasy you let go of even the separateness there's no need to even be separate and you find the source of consciousness is your reversal the source of all consciousness from the same place the same ocean all tributaries come from the same ocean and you fall back into what Christ said my father I won in to puto called Nirvana you have been under wrote a chapter an autobiography called my experiencing cosmic consciousness right when you merge you know I know you guys are close with ions Theatre of no Sciences so Edgar Mitchell right that astronaut yeah that's that happened to him yeah and he was coming back from the moon he was in a capsule I talked to him once he was in the back of a capsule by himself looking out over the vast universe right yeah and he merged lit had no background in that he just felt his body was the entire universe and it moved him so he's an engineer MIT right he came back and devoted the rest of his life he died recently he devoted the rest of his life to see how did that happen how could I this conscious being feel oneness with all the stars and all the galaxies and he studied the incident noetic sciences the study of consciousness what is it exactly they were Co publishers of the book I know you know exactly yes I have great respect for what they do and they devoted their research to to these to these ideas so this is I just want to say this is possible for anyone for anyone who reads the book for anyone who wants this I get letters all the time from people that not only talk about how it made their life easier immediately to start letting go of the stupid stuff mm-hmm but they just have these experiences you know deep deep spiritual experiences by letting go you know that the taste of that you'll never forget it one second of experiencing who you are and realizing you're OK in there you don't have to pay it's fine right will change your life I mean what I remember when I first read the infinite energy chapter was knowing that ecstasy that you described and it was exciting to read that to have your words describe that feeling and you talked about it's not dependent on food or time or energy or you know what happened or didn't happen and it was the first time it struck me you know that oh my gosh it's true you could you could have not you could have been awake I mean awake all night and in the middle of painting you know something that's just bringing you joy and that energy is not coming from the sleep I had it's coming from something else and that just gripped me instantly and so to know that you could feel that when a car is cutting you off and your husband breezes by you it's just incredible it's a gift and you were describing that you know I like to traverse it was a nice Jewish yogi right but the words that Christ taught everybody how so many people are attracted and whole like there was a line in the Bible that says man does not live by bread alone but by every word to leave with the mouth of the Father you know realizing you were describing that when you were talking about the fact that it's not the food it's not this the energy is self-sustaining and comes from inside man does not live by bread alone from things outside but by every word the leaf of the mouth of the Father which is the source of your inner energy and that beautiful yes and so that that's a state that we could experience absolutely it is your natural state it is your destiny your birth light there was something that you wrote in the end of their soul that I just wanted to ask which is can you literally as a human feel and experience the same love that God feels for creation so I guess what I'm asking is when we're in that transcendent state or when we're feeling transcendental love are we feeling what all of creation feels your consciousness your being that ends up feeling everything you feel there is only one consciousness consciousness is not something that evolved through evolution consciousness is what was in the beginning and will be in the end it is the beginning and end of reality there's literally a thing right consciousness is an ocean it is a thing all right and when you come back to your seat of consciousness instead of what you're looking at right it's like I always say if you're watching TV and you get enthralled in it there's nothing else going on in your world there's no other room you're not on the couch there's nothing no one there it's just the TV that's what happens when we stare at ourselves we stare at our minds we started our hearts we start our world that limits us to that all right the more we let go of that by not being so interested in what's on the TV the more you realize oh I'm sitting on the couch and I'm in this room and I have a family and there's an outside so I know that your whole thing expands into the reality that it is so it's not that your consciousness expands is that it ceases to contract yeah first and then focus on your cut if I focus my consciousness on that book over there that's all I see if I cease to focus it it naturally expands it naturally becomes whole right so as you let go of yourself you start to experience as I said the nature of who you are well the Bible says now is creating the image of God that is a true statement but that does not mean that God has two arms of two legs that's make God was creating the image a man the part they're talking about is you view the consciousness that is the image all right and as you fall back into that you experience the nature of your divinity you experience the nature of yourself so the question you ask can you actually feel the love and compassion and excitement and that the divine who created creation feels for creation right you know the answers yet yes you've looked at a sunset and lost yourself completely and said it was a spiritual experience I felt like I was looking into the eyes of God that's because you let go of yourself when you say it blew my mind you literally mean what you're saying it took this whole model I built and for a moment it was gone and all that was left was in the yoga we talked about the experience or merging with the experience that's union right so the answer is yes a further back you get the more you experience the ecstasy the joy the passion the creativity of the divine there is no end I don't like when people said there's a oh I'm God realized or I'm enlightened right that's how people say I had an enlightening experience let it be that all right because there is no end to how expansive you are no matter where you think you are you're no worse it is you know the divine the the universality of the I'm the president omniscient and omniscient right is it's infinite and so there's always this expansion but yes you start to feel what the divine feels you feel that and you should feel it all the time you feel the price to us Christ was the embodiment in a body of that state with nothing in between that's what we mean by a perfect being by a realized one he was called the highest of the high alright fine there's nothing wrong with that I mean yes we can accept that it's wonderful right we don't have to do what everybody does with it but it's amazing to think what's it like if somebody who's living in that state that says my father are one that has complete compassion and for all beings about a religion they are no matter what they've done you know that all you're looking at is yes yes God can experience beyond Earth and experience it without a human in between that's an avatar that's the real high states that we talked about with the Buddha and the Christ Muhammad hear me all right yes are you capable of that yes mm-hmm yes you anyone if you're conscious you're capable of it this that's what consciousness is consciousness has no qualities it's pure it's infinite it's like if a light shines on something it'll umas what is shining on move it somewhere else it shines on something else the other thing it's shining has nothing to do with the light itself consciousness is unsoiled untouched nothing by what it is looked at except that it keeps staring at it otherwise it's you can't there's no impurity there's nothing there's it's absolutely divine there well thank you and thank you so much for the gift of the untethered soul for writing these words in a way that allow us to all realize we have this choice thank you the beautiful questions you're a beautiful soul thank you for publishing the book I feel such a affinity to do harbingers we got to do this together and it's helped so many people so thank you well thank you [Music] you [Music] you

Channel: New Harbinger

Views: 342,891

Rating: 4.8217502 out of 5

Keywords: untethered soul, michael a. singer, mickey singer, oprah, super soul sunday, awakening consciousness, yoga sutras, yoga, meditation, surrender experiment, eckhart tolle

Id: f0F6nsj_Jhg

Length: 77min 4sec (4624 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 20 2017