Webinar: Promoting Carer Inclusivity in the Workplace

hello everyone we might get started now that everyone has joined me from the panel um I want to welcome today's webinar uh on care inclusivity in the workplace and this will really be a discussion around how employers can stay informed and proactive in supporting workers juggling complex care needs something in which 2.65 million Australians are contending with every day uh this important conversation aligns with the newly launched uh car inclusive workplace initiative spearheaded by the Department of Social Services alongside car's Australia we will take we will be talking more about this initiative as we roll into the conversation um I'm I'm Tyler Lambert Patel I'm the editor-in chief of women's agenda and your moderator for today's discussion um before we begin I would like to acknowledge the bungong people the traditional custodians of the land uh from which I am joining this session today uh we pay our respects to Elders past and present present and I extend um that respect to all Aboriginal and horest raade Islander peoples joining us today I also encourage attendees um watching to share the land in which they're joining the session today in the chat box and I'd also encourage um viewers to send questions through as we move along and we'll try to get to these um with the panelists as well so with that said um joining me today are four incredible panelists each bringing um unique insights into care inclusive inclusivity um so anet totter uh is a season leader with extensive experience in banking Financial Services uh retail government and Community organizations she specializes in leadership change management diversity inclusion and well-being she is deeply committed to fostering an exceptional employee and client experience through cultural TR change and inclusive workplace practices and she is currently the head of diversity and inclusion at Halland wiox Law Firm Christine rollinson uh is the project manager at neighborhood houses Victoria she's also a career of two people with significant support needs and brings a unique perspective as a former health professional policy maker and ndis Community educator she currently manages cares and inclusion projects aspiring to establish na neighborhood carers clubs in over 420 communities in Victoria and nationally uh Christine is also the president of PS my family matters supporting carers to pursue their aspirations and welcoming Annabelle Reed who is the CEO of car's Australia Annabelle joined caras Australia in March 2024 bringing over a decade of not for-profit experience executive experience in the health care sector her expertise spans leadership commercial transformation advocacy operational excellence and change management she is passionate about supporting carers drawing on her her personal experience and commitment to creating purpose-led teams and we also have jacqulyn damel jacine is a passionate advocate for young carers having provided care for her two brothers with disabilities and her mother during her battle with breast cancer she is a young carer Ambassador for little dreamers Australia and uses her lived experience to raise awareness and advocate for improved support for young carers Jacqueline is pursuing studies in politics and international studies and Chinese studies at the University of Melbourne thank you for joining us Jack I I wanted to start with you um because you are 19 years old and and when we think of caregiving um our minds would rarely go to the experience of of someone so young um but you have been navigating this role as a carer for your two brothers um for a number of years and and also for your mom when she was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2016 can you share a little bit more about this um experience and your day-to-day Alles as a young carer yeah absolutely I think often when we think of carers we think of other adults caring for maybe their parents um the older generation or caring for their own kids but for me I really was a child caring for other children um and I quite naturally took on a caring role from a very young age so I have a twin brother um so going through all those stages together starting off at the same school I sort of felt like his built-in career and yeah that came with a lot of challenges you know in my daily life managing my brother's medications managing like their Health crisis you know dealing with Emergency Services when necessary they all took quite a big toll on me and obviously not things that most children sort of experienced at such a young age so it's definitely been a big part of my life growing up and has taught me some really valuable skills about sort of communication and resilience encouraging quite Dawning circumstances but I guess I'm not the typical carer that you imagine and my Brothers aren't the typical people you know that you imagine to be caring for both of them are you know physically able-bodied they don't need any Mobility equipment or anything like that so it can be quite hard to express to other people that I do have a really full-on caring role and that does have a big big impact on My Life we'll get to a bit more about your story and and delve into that a little bit as we go along um but Chris I I want to um bring you in here as well um because you have an extensive background as a care ER and as also as a health professional and policy maker in this space what key insights have you gained about the specific needs um of carers that employers often Overlook in your personal experience of caring for your husband and your son thank you um I suppose thanks for having me as well this is this is really good to have the opportunity to share what I've learned and the things that I wish I'd knew back then that I now know and what I now know is that only a carer can truly appreciate the physical the emotional and the time intensive intensive intensive toll of being a carer and I wish I'd known that when I was a health professional and then a policy maker I think I would have made much better decisions and recommendations that actually affected people's lives and um Jack touched on this before even if you're not in the act of providing physical care for your loved one you're always on you are always on duty um best interests are always front of mind and um I feel like my phone is constantly ringing I'm always getting emails Often by professionals which I was one of these people who would have done this in the past who would just launch into a phone conversation about what's happening with my loved ones with their programs with their health with tests whatever and it's as an expectation is that I don't actually have anything else going on in my life and that I canw everything and provide an answer immediately and that I have the capacity to take on more roles it makes I hope I'm not talking um inappropriately on behalf of all carers but I know that other carers I've spoken with we feel like we're doing lots of stuff but we're not we're not necessarily doing any of them as well as we'd like to because we've just got so many obligations so we feel like we're letting our employer down we're feeling like we're letting our loved ones down we feel like we're letting our friends and families down and what we tend to do is we overcompensate we overw work and then we eventually burn out and car is burning out isn't good for anyone and what I do know is that carers do tend to be grateful we're grateful for the opportunity to get a job that's in a flexible workplace um because if we find an employer who supports this ongoing tension between all of our roles we're grateful but with that in mind we do need to be careful that this gratit gratitude doesn't lead to that overcompensation over work because carers aren't great at turning off we're hypervigilant um and we're always in crisis management mode so again we can burn out so my advice to to employers is to reassure carers of their value not only because they're carers but because of their contribution as an employee um carers don't need to prove anything and be above and beyond what is expect of other employees um and taking care of us carers it's good for everyone we're loyal we're good at multitasking and we also value the opportunity to have time away from our caring role and something that fulfills our identity beyond that of being a carer yeah absolutely thank you so much for sharing that andette just on the back of um what Christine has mentioned there around employee work uh burnout or career burnout um and also you know overcompensating and needing to prove to employers that that you know you're you're doing enough as a carer um and then you know subsequently doing too much I guess um but you know you you head up diversity and inclusion at Hall and wi Cox um you know you're you're well recognized for your care inclusive practices and being a progressive employer but you also navigated that role as uh as a care of for your mom during Co how has that experience influenced the way that you lead and the policies you champion in your organization and and speaking to also the the points that Christine raised there about you know really making sure that you're aware and um responsive to to those issues yeah thank you thanks for having me as well today um I'm in great company but um I I think what what both Jack and Christen have said have really resonate so for example um I've always taken for granted that I've been a carer for most of my life I come from a very big family um I'm an aunt to lots of nieces and nephews so I was quite Young when I became an aunt so also took on a caring role uh through that that experience but also um through age elderly parents so I lost my dad uh almost four years ago and having had to care for him in a in a really immediate capacity as well so through his dementia and things like that and then now have mom so I've had to relocate have moved back in with mom um informally um and I really recognize that part of what really makes me understand what that caring role is that um I've been able to bring that lens and that perspective into the workplace because majority of the conversations around caring for a big uh proportion of my career has always revolved around parental care so young children um which is absolutely a great need and that's you know equally as important but as you get older people in your life also get older so the differentiation between caring for younger family members when then older and it's a very different perspective as well so for example often the child will then become the you know the parental role so having that understanding and really a compassionate view of what caring requires it changes through life stages and through ages for everybody everyone will be a compare will be a carer in a different capacity as they uh progress through their their career and that doesn't change it just evolves so really making sure that we have a really um broaden view of what a Cara is within our own organization understanding that um you know some some of our people who are looking after children are also looking after elderly uh family members so really making sure our policies and our practices really advocate for that and really creating a culture of conversation around being honest around what your needs are so when I started with the firm I started in the first time in my career in a part-time role I'd always worked full-time so it was a very different uh experience for me personally but also juggling the needs of multiple people whilst I also had a role to fulfill in my organization so starting in a new firm really being very open and transparent about what my needs were and what my capacity would be and what I could definitely try and help achieve um and pleasantly finding that it was a very responsive conversation I was in there with a battle thinking I had to fight a big fight but um in actual fact it was quite a very inclusive conversation just being really open and transparent about what those needs were and finding that Inc conversation is commonality that was key um so that really helped him for uh my view of how we can be a really caring inclusive organization how how do employers Foster those conversations better um because you just made that that key point about you know commonality um but but often you know we are holding this information back and we don't feel safe and comfortable to divulge what's going on in our lives um so so what what yeah what are the proactive steps that employeers can take that uh I think as managers asking the question so even uh you know if we all get to know our people that we work within colleagues quite well but sometimes we don't create that uh we don't open that door for them to be truly vulnerable around what their needs are and requirements are so I think it's just creating uh an honest conversation that's proactive rather than reactive to say okay um you know everyone will have a weekly or fortnightly or a regular catchup they're the times that are really important to be able to lean into those conversations led by the manager but also led by the individual who might be experiencing some of those challenges and I think um really being open to understanding what they are uh they are you know it's human Centric it's putting the individual at the heart of the conversation they are not unique to individuals everyone will experience those challenges so really making sure that people understand that there are options without having to make choices that compromise on your own career trajectory for example or being where you need to be so U I think demonstrating that vulnerability is important and we've we've done it a lot more from a parental care perspective you know children will need you to be at a particular Point whether you have school engagements or whatever it might be so getting the conversation to lean more into different aspects of caring has really been been an evolving piece um and I think the more we have conversations the better they'll be um and I think I've have I have the privilege being in the diversity inclusion space where I can lead those conversations based on my experience so it allows other people to be vulnerable and I've had lots of conversations with people who feel they're constantly battling that they need to make a choice so really making sure we equi managers to understand what the issues are providing platforms that where everyone can engage in at different times um based on their need at that very moment in time but really setting the scene for people to um really lead with care and compassion that's been a key thing yeah yeah yeah absolutely Annabelle I want to bring you in here um from what from your perspective what are the key elements that Define a care inclusive workplace and how can organizations ensure they meet those standards thank you um and I really want to uh acknowledge the experiences uh that have just been shared with everyone because what what um Chris and Jack and on Twi are really illustrating is that you know caring uh can be a really large responsibility and and we know that carers on average spend about 36 hours a week caring uh but for carers in some areas that can be up to 105 hours so if we think about that it's it's almost like a full-time or two and a half full-time jobs on on top of paid employment which obviously makes it really challenging so what's essential and I think on t sort of spoken to this a lot is initially that flexibility um so that a carer can accommodate those responsibilities they have such as taking someone to the person that care for to a medical appointment outside their their working arrangements so we we really talking about flexibility in terms of hours it might be start and finish times but also location like working from home if there are things you know the care is juggling um inclusive and proactive practices always also really important so um imagine if a Cara does have to be absent from the workplace for a period of time you know um we really looking for you know ideally an employer can work with that car and have that open conversation as on Twi was talking about um to see how they're going to be involved in the workplace while they have to take time out and that might be inclusion in team meetings or updates and things like that um so that they can remain connected to their workplace um and be acknowledged even though they they're you know taking on another responsibility at that time um and lastly I think it's about the employer being responsive that might be a last minute request um as I'm sure the rest of the panel understand karing can be um you know you can get surprises and and interruptions and things come up that are unexpected and you have to respond because it might be really critical that you do something um there could be an emergency situation so having an employer that's able to be responsive enough understand that it's not not always planned time away or planned flexibility things can come up um and I think that's where those ongoing you know conversations are really important um so we've obviously got you know the car inclusive workplace initiative so the resources there to help a little more with that but but you know if an employer wants to take it further they can also participate in an accreditation program um and that's run by K's New South Wales it's called car's plus employers um and that program sort of is a continuation of our program so a workplace can become an accredited career inclusive place yeah brilliant What are the main benefits for employers listening today um around the care inclusive workplace initiative yeah great thank you um so if we think about the fact that carers make up 11% of the population uh so as you spoke before it's about 2.65 million people that's a lot of talent um and it's a lot of talent that we're probably not tapping into because you know not everyone understands the flexibility a Cara might need to participate in the workplace so we also know about 40% of Recruiters in HR teams are struggling um and are really challenged with recruiting so I think the immediate benefit is where there's flexibility and openness in the workplace it's tapping into a talent pool that might be not yet tapped into um and we know car is you know becoming a carer can be sudden um it can happen over time and it can happen to anyone right so we're really talking about a very broad spectrum of employable talented people um that are right there ready to take advantage of an opportunity uh we also know that car's are very underrepresented in the workforce so uh there's a 2018 survey of disability aging and carers and and it tells us about 53.8% of primary care so the person that has primary responsibility for caring um are employed in paid employment so that's just over half compared to non-carers or other Australians who are employed at a rate of about 81% so we can see there's a really big differential there and it does affect car's lives in terms of the you know um income and superannuation of those sort of things there's a financial flow and impact for carers so so tapping into that talent pool is the primary benefit but but there are also other benefits uh like U really high quality of stuff because you can find you know that other talent that may not have been available um also increasing that staff retention so you know carers often have to leave their roles uh when something comes up or their caring responsibility increases so with flexible workplace practices it means you can retain a really great staff member that otherwise would have made a decision to leave or move parttime um and we know there are cost associated with recruiting and constantly on boarding people there's time syns so retaining staff is is obviously front of mind I think for HR professionals um but also think about the quality of your team's outputs when you know that they understand they're part of a workplace that cares about them that is flexible and responsive um it means that they're reflecting those those values they feel included and there's a positive work culture and that that has a flow on effect to reduced absente tear and improve work quality as you know your team are imbu those values of care and inclusion and and using those values when they're engaging with stakeholders or clients or customers of your business so there are a lot of benefits to being a care inclusive workplace yeah yeah and when we're talking about 2.65 million people in the country you know what this isn't small bakies like that and when we're talking about the economic cost of not not supporting carers properly um it is seismic so um thank you for sharing that um anet just on what um what Annabelle has shared there how has implementing care inclusive policies at halling Willcox in your opinion um impacted Employee Engagement retention and and overall organizational uh productivity I I think it's been fundamental I think uh what we refer to is co as the great equalizer in uh requiring flexibility it really uh clarified that flexibility is uh an option around uh working from home for example where you know in the Professional Services or the legal profession was not always seen as something that's possible you know had to be client facing responsive and that meant being on site uh in front of somebody so I think what Co COV did was really reshift in terms of what flexibility is um can be and what it can be for people across every um organization so you know recognizing that there are some roles that can be less uh flexible but uh in terms of um anyone delivering um roles from you know from um within the home is a possibility so I think that really equalized um flexibility for everyone but it really supported everyone to understand that actually that flexibility is going to support everyone in their caring role as well so you know the flexibility of having to attend appointments or whatever it might be so it just created a bit of a mind shift that it is for everyone for different reasons um and it can be supported so really then it just required uh it was a Gateway for other ideas around what flexibility could be so it really uh the value proposition of any organization who can truly offer that in different ways uh you know workplace culture it's a c you know we kind it's embedded in our culture what we call our Hallmarks as well so really making sure that people who do who are attracted to coming to our organization understand that this is uh how we feel about flexibility making sure it's enabled making sure that everyone can uh support their own life needs um across different career stages so it's definitely helped both our retention we definitely have a great retention rate uh it engages our people as well so uh people are looking so what used to be considered as a a value on is fundamental and critical for just the basic needs for what an organization needs to offer so it really is reshaping what uh future organizations near really need to focus on as well and there is an untapped market so um I think creating those employment opportunities and Creer Pathways for those who've been left out uh is is a great opportunity for them from a mental health and wellbeing but also Financial wellbeing perspective for sure yeah I think that's a really import important point you just raised about you know making flexibility actually flexible I think employers um you know even Progressive employers where we're we're trying to make traction here are often quite rigid about how they view flexibility um and and really once we learn to embrace that Concept in in all its facets um I think we'll we'll see a lot more progress and and a lot more support for all workers um so that yeah I think that's great that that that's um really something that Holland Willcox has recognized from from the outset um Jack I'd love your kind of thoughts here in terms of employment and navigating that as a young carer um because I think you know young people do face far more kind of complex situations and different um different issues at play I guess um in your in the ways that employers have treated your situation um you know have you been able to find that flexibility and the understanding that you know Antoinette has spoken about but within a law firm um what what's your experience been yeah I think it's very different as a young person um because a lot of people my age like you mentioned I'm 19 so I'm working casual roles and I have been since I started working you know I was first an Umpire um in like my neple program um and then I moved into like a retail position in a bakery and now I'm working as a swimming teacher and like Antoinette said with the diversity with INF flexibility I think that's really important for casual workers because for me working from home wouldn't have been an option for any of those roles like the bakery is at the bakery swim teaching has to be at the pool um so it's really different for young people and I think for other young carers there is a lot of uncertainty and anxiety around the way that your um caring role and those responsibilities affect your employability because as a casual you know that you can just you know not be allocated more shifts there's less job certainty and that does come with the Casual loading which is a great help for young people and you know when we're studying at University they are very like costly ways of living um so that's really valued the Casual loading but then it does mean that we don't get carers leave like most people who are employed part-time or full-time and yeah it's hard to sort of be supported I've had a lot of really um understanding and empathetic bosses and managers um but it's quite hard to implement flexibility because a lot of these roles do rely on a young Workforce and so around sort of exams um you know end of school terms end of University semesters when there's a lot of Assessments you know a lot of their staff want to take time off to study and things like that so if you're also trying to take time off for a caring role it can be quite disruptive and know hard for them to offer you the flexibility in terms of like changing shifts last minute or something like that because often the onus is on you to find someone to cover your shift and if you're struggling with your caring role and all those added responsibilities sort of the last thing you need to be doing is pulling up all of your co-workers and trying to find someone to cover you when it can be quite hard to explain the reason why you need a cover yeah yeah do you have some thoughts around you know policies or initiatives that would help young young carers in particular I think the main thing is just awareness with the care inclusive workplace initiative if my bosses were aware before I approached them about what a care is and what that can mean and how that can mean that you know last minute I might not be able to attend work or I need to have my phone at at work in case I get an important call from a family member you know there are things that seem unreasonable or a bit shocking when you first approach an employer about that because things like turning your phone off and always showing up consistently to your shifts are like a baseline expectation um so I think it would be really great if as the young carer the owners wasn't on you to introduce the people that you're you know your employeers and your bosses to the world of caring especially when as a casual and as a young person in the workforce often our managers are other children like I often found when I was younger instead of getting my first casual job after school you know I was like the junior retail assistant or something like that and my man would be a 16-year-old in year 10 and I was in year n so it's really hard if the other person that is more senior than you in that company is also a young person I think it's really important that at a higher up more systemic level that the employeers are aware of a caring role so that you know they can manage the sort of implementation of flexible work hours and things like that rather than leaving it to a manager who might also be a young person and that's quite confusing if they haven't had that lived experience I think that's a really good point um J uh Chris I want to go to you now I want to ask if you uh can share a specific instance where your employers support and I know that we spoke earlier and and you did mention that your employer has been um quite supportive in in your caregiving role um has made a significant difference to your ability to balance work and and caregiving responsibilities um yeah I can I just start I I I I think what what we're coming to with this is that it's just that being able to have a very open discussion about what the boundaries are what the rules are but also what the non-negotiables are my husband was in ICU a couple of weeks ago and that's not negotiable I'm going to drop everything and be at his bedside if he's in ICU and having a workplace that gets that and can pivot when um I just say look I know I'm this is not the most reliable I've been but my husband's in ICU I need to be there with him because I I'm his Advocate and I'm the one who does all the Talking for him but um I suppose an acknowledgement and an understanding because um there's been many times when I felt that it would be be easier just to pack it all in and just be a full-time carer and go on the carer pension um because I would feel less guilty about not giving my husband and my son all the Care that they need and that they deserve erve for me because as much as there are a whole lot of funded supports through ndis and my age care and you know the health system I feel that I'm genuinely the best place person to be their their carer their Advocate their supporter and if I did that though it's a really tough choice carers are left with all of these choices all the time I can do that and feel better about me being a carer but then I'd have to live below the poverty line and also then my whole identity would be tied to being a carer and I worry then what that would do to our relationship because I wonder then whether I would be resenting that caring role and that you know without doing it consciously maybe I would you know really resent that my personal aspirations have had to be um relinquished because of that caring role yeah but then when you say okay I will work because you know and my son and my husband are very supportive you know you know they want me to work they know that I'm happier when I work but because of my caring role I do have to work Limited hours so that means my income is half than what it should be um I'm I've got nowhere near as much as super as I should have um so I'm either working in my paid job or working in my unpaid job but I'm still in financial hardship um and then I've got this nagging you know anxiety about my financial future because I know I don't have a nest egg I know I haven't um you know my career probably isn't at the level it would have been otherwise because of this situation so then I'm left with the feeling well working is a luxury and me taking on this luxury is being a bit of self you know I'm being selfish so it's this push and pull push and pull and the not neoti is if if it comes down to something really serious that needs to be taken of care of with my loved ones they're first they're first yeah but um being safe to have these discussions where you're actually quite vulnerable in your workplace is important and I'm lucky that I've been able to have that and um you know I am a very open Communicator so can say this is what's happened I'm not going to be in today but yeah so yeah that that open two-way communication is really important yeah yeah Jack I think in our previous conversations around this you you kind of alluded to something similar that um that you know has just been shared by Chris and it was around you know accommodations that are afforded to caregivers um being seen as as Privileges and how we kind of shift that narrative um I'd love to kind of hear your perspective on that as well yeah I think it's really of jarring for us as carers to be positioned as like lucky or yeah we are privileged to have the accommodations that make the workforce accessible to us when we sort of witness the people that we care for have their disability needs and the accommodations for their health conditions or whatever it might be seen as like a legal requirement and an absolute necessity and when we were talking before you know another day um the panelist and I were mentioning that like if um someone you cared for did need a Mobility a say for example a wheelchair and their workplace installed a ramp you know in a spot they needed it to help them access the workplace we wouldn't be like wow you're so lucky that your employees so thoughtful you know but where as carers who do support people with those sort of needs when we say things like we need flexible hours or there may be times where you can't work a shift at a short notice it is seen like you're unreliable and that's like a personal flaw in your work ethic and if they are understanding of that you know it's a privilege to have an employ laer who is so accommodating and obviously like Chris was saying as carers I feel like we are very grateful like I really appreciate the empathy and the support of my employer who is really understanding my situation but you know that it's like an inconvenience and a burden on them to be making those accommodations especially at short notice and then it does yeah make you feel quite guilty like Chris was saying you know if I can't go into a shift at work last minute I feel terrible but there's a lot going on already so you really don't need that added of emotional burden of dealing with your feelings of the employer and I think in smaller organizations which young people often do work in in those casual positions it is quite tight-knit and there's not that many positions between you as a sort of Junior employee and the boss and therefore it feels quite like personal that connection with um the people above you your bosses your managers so you feel quite like guilty for letting them down because you know them so well Annabelle just on what Chris and Jack have shared there do you have thoughts around how employers can and any Australian really that that's dealing with this and and you know communicating and and being in contact with carers and we all are and as as Antoinette noted earlier we all are carers at some point as well but how do we get better at um at at alleviating that guilt and and you know making sure that car is are truly supported emotionally and and mentally as well we're really talking about social change that needs to happen and I think it starts with recognition of the carer role I think you know even the word carer when I say that a lot of people immediately think of a paid support worker or they think of parenting they they don't think about somebody who's caring for someone with a disability or a chronic health condition um dementia you know and so on um so I think you know until it becomes part of an individual's Journey they they probably don't understand and need help understanding what that means and what that looks and feels like you know because when I was talking about those hours 36 105 hours a week you say that to someone and they're usually fairly shocked because they haven't really played it through and thought about what that might mean so I do think recognition of the carer role and explaining what it is and how many people it affects and how it affects them is important um particularly to employers who have the power you know to enable change in the workplace for carers um I think when we're talking about care of guilt and I've I've heard that threaded through all these conversations and I I relate um this is a really difficult thing and and I know um we're part of a national Cara Network and there are Cara organizations all around Australia and addressing that guilt in accessing respite for example so you know so carers can take a break often car is feel like taking a holiday is a step way too far you know everyone else can have one but should I even take a break and of course it is in fact necessary for Caris to take that break to remain healthy um and Chris you're really talking about that that mind uh struggle that you have balancing with things you need for you because car is are people car is have needs um car is well-being and mental health is really important orth well they can't do a great job of being a carer but also it's just important because because you know they're a human and they need those things so I think addressing that guilt by identifying that carers really do need time out and a break it in fact is healthy and necessary um and helps them keep balance and maintain their own health because some people who are carers you know have a very challenging responsibility and without support that they can fall apart and what then what for the person they care for and then they also need care too so so I think we can probably as a Society do a good job of reinforcing that it's positive for carers to take a break they're they're of course they're entitled to work they they have rights like everybody else they're not not to be treated like background Furniture as they sometimes are by Health Systems and things absolutely we're talking about you know really powerful social change that needs to happen yeah yeah in a big way um Chris to that point and and drawing on what you said just before around the the guilt and and also what you said earlier about needing to to um overcompensate a work and kind of go harder and um putting in all of those long hours as a as a caregiver as well how do you and and Jack interested in your thoughts here antet Annabelle how do you support your emotional and mental well-being do you do you have any kind of time or ability to do that no I suppose this is one of the good things though about having paid employment when you're a carer because when you're a carer at home the um ohns system as a home carer is non-existent and we'll just keep doing what we have to do no matter what but then going into a paid job then you find out that you can you can clock on and clock off and you can have support from um systems like um EAP where you can get counseling and other supports you can get some paid leave um so I think that that really helps is is if you say well this is my paid work and there are I get entitlements with this um how can I make the most of that that's probably going to be um you know what what helps you and what I've personally found is being part of a team where I I'm recognized for my skills as a professional and a person separate to being a carer that's been great for my my self-esteem and I I probably have said that's what's given me my mojo back is um being able to to do that sort of stuff so what carers do tend to do is our our Social Circle shrinks because we're so busy either doing the paid work or the unpaid work but that that that social network that you get through being part of a team that's been a really amazing um benefit for me um joining the paid Workforce again so um I that's something that has really yeah I've found helpful probably that's that's what's filling my cup yeah yeah and possibly something that employers again need to be more kind of cognizant of as we move along around how they can foster those experiences um in a more meaningful sense for for carers within the workplace just as another kind of you know I guess um add on to to policy that they're producing in this space so um Jack I want to hear your thoughts on on that as well and and um whether or not you're you're able to to get any kind of um emotional or or mental relief at the moment it definitely is very challenging but I also think it is quite a unique situation as a young person a lot of the rest spite I found was from Little dreamers which is Australia's leading organization supporting young carers and I've now become an ambassador young career Ambassador for them which is very exciting but that was really life-changing for me when I came across this organization and it links into what Annabelle was saying about like not being recognized as a carer I didn't know what a young career was before I heard of little dreamers in 2020 um so I was 15 turning 16 that year so I'd gone a long time in My caring role just describing it as having a hard home life or you know a challenging family situation and having that identity in the lab as a young carer was really validating and it allowed me to access supports like little dreamers which does give me rest bite and I think it's important to identify that young carers you know rest bite looks a bit different for them I don't need to go on a holiday or anything like that um you know I'd love to but it's not necessary as a child to have that as a form of rest but I think it's just important to allow young carers to actually be children I found that growing up I spent a lot of time being quite like serious I and responsible and you know really on like Chris mentioned you know um identifying triggers for my brothers like looking out for things um that were overwhelming in terms of sensory input and trying to mitigate that and how they would respond to that so really being like switched on an attentive and serious and dealing with people a lot older than me medical professionals eventually Services Workers that I think it's really important in terms of that emotional and mental health support that you do have like those fun rest bite opportunities where you know little dreamers has these holiday programs where we'll go to like bounce or the Australian Open or something that's just totally fun unrelated to your caring role where you can just be a kid and be silly and don't have to be so responsible and brave and you know they're great qualities but it is exhausting to maintain them all the time yeah yeah doesn't seem like a a very big request um from my end um uh I I want to just ask quickly um Annabelle with this with the the initiative um the care inclusive initiative now launched in a long-term sense what leg legislative or policy changes do you believe are necessary to to better support carers in the workplace across Australia and how does um the vision created from um the care inclusive workplace initiative tie into that thank you goody I get to talk about things I want uh I think our our respon resp to the 2022 Senate inquiry into work and care really encapsulated three pillars we saw as important for for policy um sort of structural change if you like and it starts with more flexible workplaces uh as the initiative you know is advocating for uh it also included adequate substitute care or respite so that is an enabling mechanism for Sometimes some carers really need you know they need help taking care of they careful so that they can uplift and move into paid employment or be somewhere else um and lastly it was um some mechanisms around the rules that carers had to access support So an example of that is the care payment and happily um we achieved a change to this but there was a rule that said if you were you could only work 25 hours a week but you could only do education for 25 hours a week or work including travel including volunteer time time and if you hit all those kpis you could get the care of payment but now happily it's it's changing and that that action should happen next year um where it's more flexible over 100 hours and it excludes education so you know for a young carer uh like Jack you know previously it may have excluded some University degrees because they require more than 25 contact hours which me a young carer couldn't be a career and go to university and receive that supplement um so it obviously also allows carers to participate more paid employment because there's greater flexibility imagine if you're rural or remote and they include your travel time and your work time and penalize you for it it's it was extremely difficult um the other things that are really important I think is acknowledging the role of a career as separate to being a parent um so at the moment parental leave and car's leave is conflated it's just one block um but a lot of other oecd countries have separate recognition for caring leave and it is recognized and legislated and funded sometimes by Insurance mechanisms sometimes by the employer or publicly funded um so I can give you a few examples for example UK offers an extra week dedicated carers sleeve for cares perim um and that's paid leave uh we're asking for that in Australia right now um Canada offers like 15 to 35 weeks with financial assistance it's like a part funded you get 55% of your earnings during that time um Austria offers 2 to six weeks ofay paid car's leave and Japan I think has 93 days per family member so um you know different oecd countries do it differently but we are behind the aall on this one um we really need to look at the leave we have that's dedicated to carers and legislate that so it's it's not as optional for employers and it's expected and funded that that would really help yeah yeah we do have a question that's coming I'm conscious of time and I know that we could keep going all day and I'd actually you know love to hear from you all day but um we've got a question uh from from someone watching and we've had some really great um comments and thoughts from others as well but um what are some legislative changes that could help improve the financial future of of cares especially when it comes to superannuation um Annabelle I might jump to you on that one as well sure a pet topic for me uh so we K's Australia absolutely wants to see superannuation on top of the care of payment um and the reason for that is that there are compound effects of being a carer but one of them is a loss of superannuation and on average for an average care that's around 176,000 at the time of retirement but for a carer that has a longer trajectory so the average time someone is caring for another person is about 11 and a half years but you know if you think about a younger care starting early or parents of a child with a disability where maybe lifelong care but that difference in super can be around $400,000 and around 900,000 in lifetime earnings so that's a massive that's a massive Financial impact and and Chris was speaking to it you know becoming a full-time career on the care of payment means living below the poverty line but then there's that double whammy at the end where you don't have enough to retire on and if you're the financial bread winner for the person you care for there can be inter erational impact you know so maybe the child you care for then you know when you have to leave them money there isn't enough money to leave them as well which is going to impact their lives so um the super annuation question is really important and we need to find a way to do that to give super on the car of payment um there are also some other ideas and we'd be Keen to explore around tax breaks and things like that um that that when we acknowledge that about you know a quarter of all carers age 65 plus you know many of our carers are already in the age where they should be retiring but not might not have retired because they can't afford it um so that's where the superannuation again becomes so important yeah yeah 100% it just seems like there are so many kind of giant gaps um in this space that that we really need to look at so much more closely so much more acutely um again conscious of time but I just wanted to to ask uh the panel you know whether or not there's there's anything else um that they would really like to to leave um viewers of this session with today any other kind of thoughts or or feelings um Chris I might start with you thing that's coming to mind is um not so much with me because I'm very public about my caring role and you know that's why I did that that podcast called care Factor but I caring is a very personal role like I don't want to tell everybody the ins and outs of what I do to look after my husband and son because I would actually respect their dignity and um you know it is a very personal role and I think that's part of it we're not very um good advocates for ourselves because we're not putting it out there and making it public because we're we're often doing some very personal and private things and we really want to um respect the Dignity of those for whom we care so um it's a we're a bit of a silent population even though that's 11 11% of us out there and um I really it's already been said if you're not a carer now you will have already been one or you will be one and the more that workplaces understand all of these issues the better so I don't think it's just about management I think it's about everybody in every workplace needs to understand not just just so that the workplaces are better but just so that people are prepared for when this happens to them or for someone they care about as well yeah and don't just assume that because it is a silent population that the the problem doesn't exist and that the support isn't needed um and for everyone uh watching today please do jump in and take a look at um Chris's podcast care Factor as well um it's brilliant so uh Annabelle just jump to you now I think the most important thing we can do is is recognize who carers are and if we simply start that conversation that enables all of the changes we're looking for to flow from it and it's probably very similar to Chris's comments with a fairly silent population there are people out there that don't yet label themselves as a carer and Jack spoke to that as well um it can take a few years to self-identify as a carer and therefore access support flexibility and those things you need particularly in the workplace so when more we talk about it and recognize and acknowledge that care role and what it looks like the more people will understand and can contribute positively yeah yeah absolutely Antoinette I I would just finally add that um question for purpose is by Mantra so allowing an opportunity for people to uh self-identify but also match that ENT identification with other options people benefits that might be required that we don't currently offer so really making sure there's space for people to self-declare their needs but also respond to that as an employer so what does that mean do you need additional um leaf for example or do you need additional benefits that address a particular area so EAP we know that there are intersectional areas as well so there are family Dynamics around cares you know who takes what responsibility so I know we haven't really covered that in this discussion today but that's a whole other Pandora box if you like um it certainly does impact uh relationships that then impact on uh workplace uh so I think it's really just giving people the opportunity to disclose and then respond to what what they actually might need that we haven't asked because if you don't ask you don't know so um I think it's really important to be able to create an opportunity for people to share that responsibility and then respond to it with um with particular needs that haven't been addressed yeah and don't let your discomfort at ask get in the way absolutely not yeah um Jack I think really adding on to what Chris said it's so important for employers and just society as a whole to take young people and their caring roles seriously like Chris said often you're caring for people who are really distressed and the hardest part of my caring role is when the people I'm caring for are in crisis and in order for me to you know um like explain the gravity of My caring role I would have to go into a lot of detail about really like distressing traumatic circumstances that not only happen to me but the people I'm caring for and that's not fair on them because this is you know a really hard time for them so I think it's so important that sort of employers really take your word for it and understand that a young carer can start as young as four years old little dreamer supports young people Age 4 to 25 and it can be hard to imagine what sort of support a 4-year-old could provide but a lot of emotional support and you're bonding with them playing with you know your siblings as I did with my twin brother I think that's so important because I started as a young carer at a really young age so my caring role affected primary school high school now University for me it will affect me as I'm applying for roles Post University so it's important to take that role seriously and understand that it had such an impact from such an early age for me so so many young carers have had those flow and effects that will really impact them into the future yeah yeah and thank you all so much for sharing you know these these experiences today and um you know this is such a a complex and personal issue and it's it's hugely valuable to have these conversations up front and it's hugely valuable for for those that are joining in that might be experiencing you know similar um similar challenges but but equally it is so important for employers to really um engage in this topic and to to look at the ways that we can do things more proactively and more comprehensively um in this space um I think that you know the key takeaway from from this conversation is that caregiving is far from an isolated issue it's really something that is going to impact and it's the reality for millions of Australians each day um and as Anette said it's something that we're all going to do at some point in our in our lives um ultimately we do need to get considerably better at being there for one another and for employers to recognize and respond appropriately um to evolving competing care priorities um the care inclusive workplace initiative is the perfect uh start for this and I just want to um also add that I shared the link to um the initiative in the the chat box as well um it's designed to empower and upskill organizations on this issue and for all of the progressive employers joining today we encourage you to follow that link and to to follow up with how you um get started with the assessment um once again I just want to thank all of the panelists again today so uh jacqulyn damel uh Chris rollinson Antonette um TOA and uh Annabelle Reid um and for anyone who's looking for more information on this please just touch base with us at at Women's agenda um you can email us directly at Conta at Women's gender. com.au and we'll make sure that we put you in touch with the right people um including Caris Australia uh so thank you thank you so much

Channel: womensagenda

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Id: oz-guKMIfDI

Length: 58min 36sec (3516 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 26 2024