Vivek Ramaswamy on Becoming Trump's VP & Who REALLY Controls America

what's up everybody and welcome to fler and today we are joined by Trump's new running mate manp he's an you're here to tell us you're running with up VP what do you think uh you know we're we're thinking things through man you know we uh wait a minute I was being sarcastic that looks like confirmation no no we're we're uh yeah I'm going I'm going to see him tonight we're just had a rally to support him okay weird thinking things through like this is a mutual decision I really like that I mean my view is whatever somebody takes on so I've run companies and one of the things I've learned is when you hire people you got to make sure that everybody is swimming in the same direction it's not one person's fault or another person's fault yeah but if you have you know if you got daylight between you even a company or an Enterprise or whatever you're building you don't want to figure that out years in gotta good it's good to figure that out so you guys have Synergy because he did Synergy I think we we definitely we're definitely in for the same mission of saving the country overall mission and the role that each of us plays well the role he's going to play is is the next president and the Ro on going to play whether it's inside government or outside government we're going to figure it out now he did deliver a head shot before the primary I mean we're we're competing man we're we're but you were loving him I was loving the country and that's what I've been loving the whole time now he didn't like some things I said about him like what what did you say well I think um it was it was the well show them that size 14 bro I didn't know got a size 14 that's a well well-built Indian right I never RI I was I was I was getting right there at about 6 feet flat and that was not what a size 14 predicts okay but tell us okay so he he delivers this shot he said that there are some things that you didn't uh that he didn't like yeah I mean it's a primary we're running against each other and so I play a win and so we all play to win but I respect I've said every step but I and I meant it I respect his legacy and what he did for the country okay he kept us out of war and he grew the economy okay I think those are two of the most important things a president can do yeah he also rolled over the log of the deep state right and we saw I need to learn about the D I want to get into all this we can get into all of that stuff part of my notes not so I said one of my things I in the campaign he rolled over that log and we saw what crawled out I'm bringing the pesticide and that was my view is you have you want to take out the Deep St you actually actually want to just spray it down St give me a name it's not a you're missing the point if you're asking the question it's a system it's syst some good Poli you just right there machine imagine in one of your companies like you asked the people at the company like you own the company talking to your CEO and you're like who is the problem Source in this company and then somebody said back to you they're like it's the machine it's if you're asking the question you don't even know the answer Pelosi I would listen to It's it's the it's she's a cog she's a cog these are all cogs in a de give me some cogs I want to know about the cogs are you C in the machine I'd like to think not but and and and I'm not right now but if you get in there for eight years maybe you become one and it's time to get the hell out actually so that's my view is get in there do your service get out no when to drop the mic and I think it takes fresh blood to do it I think you get to be an outsider a solid Outsider like a true Outsider once and so that was my whole premise in this race is I'm going to take the America First agenda to the next level yeah reach the next Generation while doing it forget the Republicans forget the Democrats yeah build a movement that's founded on two basic ideas yeah I think these are not particularly partisan ideas I think that're rather obvious but apparently they're controversial today the people people who we elect to run the government should be the ones who actually run the government yeah that's number one not unelected bureaucrats so whoever it is agree disagree with me partisan black white doesn't matter the people we like to run the government should run the government and the moral duty that they owe yeah is to the citizens of this nation not another one boom there we go that's it that's the whole premise and so the fact that that was as controversial as it came out to be in this in this race I think revealed a lot about where we are as a country and gives me a redouble sense of purpose to if it's not going to be as the next president which is how I hoped to make a positive difference in this country I'm going to find what the next best way is maybe VP do you think you're too qualified to be VP like I don't know that I mean I don't see things as like a hierarchy like presid number one VP and I don't know that V imagine it's a cast system like like speaking speaking to you know familiar Concepts no but is it a casting decision I might call more right uh that's that's what I thought you meant you know refer to my former my fored career that's right I saw that you took ComEd shows 10 show give us oh do you have a bit uh they were they were not very good about seven eight years I Prem the premise the see the thing is the premise was just based on exaggerated versions of my life right and so there were it was like I would say Target demographic I have no native I have no native talent for comedy I say that but I was amazing I went to this American Comedy Institute you know this one in a there's some people went through there who were like you know aspiring comedians or whatever and I just did in the evenings I had my job and I clearly had interests that went beyond my job eventually is what led to me starting my company but anyway I went to this class and you know the guy actually had kind of a formula where without having native god-given gift for comedy to still make it pass actually it wasn't it it wasn't great but it wasn't not horrendous and the thing he told me was and this actually led me and I owe him gratitude because it's what led me to find my first company is he said take a notebook where like there's an exception that I don't have it with me right now I've kept it a decade later still do it take a notebook everywhere you go anytime something annoys the hell out of you write it down how many notes are about black people that's I self-censor I sorry that's right it was uh the the the notebook was black but there were White Pages inside Bal so it's a beauty just think of the beauty of that is such a beautiful country deep right and so if you didn't use a brown pen you was sellout I'll tell you that that's right I probably do you remember any of the bits though I I not not super well to be honest 10 years ago you need alzer's medication dude that's what you but I wouldn't know how to bring you one of those I would I wouldn't be the guy to help you on that we're going to get to your drug dealing days in a while this guy used to deal drugs legal the legal is more profitable kind legal drug talk about legal like cooler to be like I deal drugs yeah almost everybody on this uh you know sofa couch chair situation has dealt drugs did you know is that right yeah in left okay all right well I mean I'm not I'm not an exception I mean the majority of us yeah did you sell drugs at all uh no I bought oregano one time from a drug dealer oregano ond I thought it was did you how did you consume it I thought it was and then it was not no he did know he did know okay okay okay wait no so so you being too competent to be Trump's this is what my concern is is that like the because I want to leave people with this advice especially young people for being an aspiring entrepreneur so I took the notebook down anytime something annoys you there's a joke in it but actually it's the best advice that I could give you for starting a business actually that's where I wanted to land that because that's what led me to start actually your frustration your frustrations are often rooted in something real in the world they need to be your emotional attitude to that is part of what gives you the passion to for a good comedian apparently tell a joke in my it ended up taking me in a different direction so that was okay seal that off VP I I don't know if it's the right role or not Cala Harris genius she can you know she's in charge of AI policy man I don't know if she could spell AI but I think that she's in charge of AI policy so there must be something good there good I like I like it get the notebook exactly so I don't know what's going on there goofball right I mean genius right he's he's an absolute passion a man man full of passion and a man full of bro you know videos you try to convince people in Iowa that you believe in Jesus and the other gods have you seen that IU man about my beliefs you're like we believe Jesus is a Son of God that's what I Son of God which is different than saying he's the son of God and the guy's talking to a Presidential nominee he goes there's one son of God I mean look I will respect there there were there were a number of people who I met who struggled one Pastor towards the end of the campaign and he wrote an extensive post which was and he's a influential pastor and he's he's a good man but he wrote I didn't I had met him at this time part of a demonic cult the way you know the way he describes Hinduism and and he recommends everybody vote against the member of a demonic cult being our US president he wrote that about you oh yeah it was an extensive post no but I think those are the words exact words demonic what's the justification like well I think I think I think so so I think people were just like stay you know stay away from him say to him I called him I called him on the phone and I said I would love to sit down with him he came out you show up in the middle of a blizzard in the middle of a blizzard he came out and he listened and we had a deep conversation on the back of my campaign bus afterwards yeah and he brought a he's a collector of ancient books he brought he said it was his most valued book and he left it with me I'm still I promised him I would read it and I would it hasn't been that long since the end of the campaign but in his world it's about it's it's a book about the values that informed American history and it was a signed book by the author and it's not in print anymore it's an old book and and it had real sentimental value to him he then after our talk had an extensive post on you you me to pull it up actually yeah sure I can pull it up in the case of vake if God decides to use him as a president I will have cause for joy and certainly support him and pray for him as often as I have for any other president but what we are discussing is whether or not we as Christian Christians are allowed to reward a candidate with authority and Power in a republic and then it goes on to explain why even though he agrees with everything that I say this is ultimately why no Christian should be permitted to vote for me in his opinion do you think if you were white and Christian you'd be president right now white and Christian would I be president right now I don't think so I don't think that was the r limiting issue so I don't I mean just to I'll call it like I did I do think it was an obstacle for me yeah in Iowa I think that we opened up conversations about faith at like a level of depth that we have not and I think the people Iowa and myself have not otherwise and would not have otherwise gone into I think many people elucidated for themselves what the distinction was between pastor and president and how they could with conviction understand that their religion was fundamentally different from mine voting for president and for what it's worth it actually was a forcing function for me to get to like okay you say you're Hindu or you say you're Christian or whatever and you go about your daily business but this process I think really forced me to deeply understand what the core convictions of my faith actually are and so it was it was very productive in that sense actually but I think that there were a small minority I your belief in God yeah actually like what even the theology underg guring my faith I think that that was something that I probably emerged with greater Clarity of by the end of this campaign rather than the beginning because it's a very frequent topic that comes up and forces you to press yourself to understand I sorry I would love to hear th that and how you change your but what does that make ReDiscover is what I would say how did that make you feel reading that like this is a guy whose vote you want he's going at you for your faith and then the end of it is masterful Comm all positive qualities I still will I will never and no one of my Faith should ever vote for this man how does that the right answer how does that make you feel that's what I'm interested in so I would tell you what my my first fleeting reaction is what my total reaction would have been a year ago which is one of Fury rage frustration and like maybe a tinge of sadness and disappointment because I feel that yeah okay that's what I that's that's sort of a microcosm of what my first instinct is and like I said like that's to start of this journey what I would have what I would have said right now what I feel on the other side of that is then some okay pause this is a good man actually who cares so deeply about this country that he has paused to think about how his own theology connects to the future of our Republic I spent an hour with him and he spent that time because he deeply does care about the country and believes that he has a duty to fulfill in it and for somebody who at least gives a damn if to say it that way but a pastor I guess it's a little but who who cares that much right I'm kind of grateful at least because I think that he and I probably share a deeper care for this country and an understanding of doing what in aret Hindu yeah our Dar would be than most ordinary people living their lives and than me over the course of most of my life and so for that I guess I'm grateful actually and I think we're going to be friends I think he's wrong on his understanding of what the Constitutional role of the president is and I think if I may say so he's wrong on even what I think the Bible will ask of him in to decide in the way he chooses to elect a president and I to stay in touch with him and if I do run for president in four years maybe he'll have a different view by the time that we do and so I guess that's where I am right now is a profound respect for his level of care for the country doesn't change my view that I think he's just on both the Bible and the Constitution wrong on this but a commitment to say this is a guy who I think I kind of respect towards the late phase of the campaign there was another Pastor I went to a church with and some will happen when you go to these churches on Sunday mornings sometimes more often than not to be clear what I what what was represented there is a minority view amongst Evangelical Christians that is not the predominant view of most Evangelical Christians but I think it is a distinct and nony minority so we went to another we went to a bunch of churches on Sundays and most of them actually what I would sense happening I can't say for sure but you get a sense of these things is they'll almost soften the message a little bit um to sort of be inclusive actually to make us feel warm and welcome at the end of a prayer even if they're praying over us you'll say usually say the prayer in Jesus name amen and then you'll also often when we're there we'll say say the prayer and saying all God's people say amen and and I I felt like telling them and maybe I should have is just like you don't have to say it that way if you end your prayer with saying in Jesus name say in Jesus name because that's what is most heartfelt to you but occasionally we would actually get somebody who also takes notice of who we are and wants to send a message to everybody else who's in that congregation and so we went to one where it was probably the the most pointed sermon that I have heard but he went to draw and parse every distinction between for those of you here who think that you need to understand the philosophy of Christ and that philosophy is what speaks to you and that's what you want to take away from today you're missing the point Christ Christ is the way he's not a path he is the path and he said he gave he gave I mean it was it was it was clearly intended that we were there and the person who brought us was a relatively prominent person and I think it was I think he was checking actually I think I don't think it was not a rebuke at us I think it was a rebuke at the person who brought us is what it was who was a relatively prominent person and I think it was intended as a somewhat of a somewhat of a slap on the wrist or rebuke not to say that we shouldn't show up there but we shouldn't show up there as somebody who's not actually open to or being there for the purpose of openness to conversion well I'm sure he's also looking at his flock and going wow these people are running for president and they want the vote of my flock me endorsing this man exactly telling all these I respect this man but then then so he started and once he got warmed up then then it wasn't even on us he was just going on he was just going scorched Earth so he said you know a few weeks ago I gave a sermon and we gave I forget which passage it was but it told the story and there's a gentleman who came up he said it was my first time in Church in a long time he had tears in his eyes and I said oh well thank you for coming and he said no Pastor I just want to say thank you you've opened up something in my heart that I previously did not have I haven't been to church in a long time you brought tears to my eyes and I want to say thank you for that and he said well what what did you take away from the teaching and the man said I'm still processing it but I can just tell you the feeling that I have is one of gratitude and the pastor's speaking in the sermon he says well I just looked him in the eye and said said I think you might have just liked the band and I was just like it's after he's just delivered kind of scor scathing this bastard I forgot his name but I but he was I mean it was a I think we brought it out in him you know sometimes sometimes there's a situation and you you awaken your inner Beast yeah I think this I think and and that was just I mean he was just going line by line of people from the congregation come to him with these lines and he would just be ripping them to shreds because people Miss what the actual ultimate point is is that there is one path black dude to God no he's white white God not that many black Pastors in Iowa there was one I mean I don't know if you've been to Iowa I don't know if You' been you don't say have a flourishing bti he was the black member of the congregation I was representing I was repres I wear multiple hats but the uh there there was a black p probably wearing one Hood there was a I want to say thank you by the way everybody came out to the shows in DC I had a surreal experience uh this past weekend there um I post about this on Instagram but like the first standup I ever experienced was Eddie Murphy's Delirious I listened to a cassette tape of it with my dad I've said that you know many times probably on this podcast you guys notice and uh we actually did those two shows at the exact venue where Eddie Murphy recorded Delirious so that was just an incredible moment I want to thank you guys all for coming out thank you so so much for that that was incredible um and uh the life tour in America continues uh we are going to Nashville make sure you get those tickets and then we are going to Austin as well and uh we added a second show in Phoenix so you can get a tickets to all those shows at the angel shows.com and I will see you the first weekend in March in Philly cannot wait I love you I appreciate y'all I'll see you there Peace by the way guys I also probably owe this city of Washington DC a thank you because we sold out six shows at The Improv I've never done that before sorry I did not at a seventh I didn't have time but this week January 26th and 27th I'm going to be at Wise Guys Comedy Club in Salt Lake City I know we sold out one show maybe two so hurry up and buy those tickets February second and third San Jose California I'm at The Improv I've never been there very excited to come very excited to perform for the Indians in San Jose you H1 heav ass boys buy those tickets hurry up and then this show again was just announced recently so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of tickets available February 22nd through 24th Oklahoma City get those tickets and more at Akash sing.com now let's get back to the show it's a black Pastor who came to one of our events actually and he challenged me not on Christian teaching but he challenged me on so one of my core principles we have S 10 hard things that are true we say in the campaign one is reverse racism is racism yes and so he he first he showed up big he's fit guy his bastard he said first thing is I challenge you to 10 push-ups so we pound down hammered out the 10 push-ups and then the harder question was when there's been history of systemic racism in the United States how do you take that into account when you say reverse racism is racism and we actually had he he actually was totally fine in the Christianity piece of this he understood the distinction but he was coming at it more from that angle we had a good discussion a good exchange that day we stayed in touch about three weeks later he became one of our Precinct captains actually which is interesting and and I think that there were a lot of just Beautiful Moments through this whole thing and even with with the other two pastors I mentioned I consider that progress that we were actually able I would rather us be able to have those open exchanges yeah than to have that bottled up and fester with some sort of deep you know I would say unhealthy toxic frustration that sometimes comes up when people aren't able to speak in the open I think that's smart I think that's smart now here's a question that I think um everybody wants to know why does everyone hate Nikki Haley so much does everyone hate it seems like every oh my God the PE the corporate press loves Nikki Haley you mean niika Haley yeah is that her real name Nik he just wanted to say that other N word found a way to sneak it in this mother he almost made me say yeah okay she go with the normal R Haley yes she calls me viac so she it up on purpose I I think I think that it's almost I I don't know that she thinks of it as doing it on purpose but it's almost native and hard wired to who she is that it's exactly how does she know what cast you are dude does she know you're a bar the thing is it doesn't it doesn't make it for her there's one there's one currency that matters which is which is power personal power and do whatever she think she just insane lust for power insane lust for power and she is tied to the corporate interests is that what the I would greatest criticism is I would say that I would say it's not specific to her right I could it could apply to Dick Cheney you could apply to anyone of a certain breed of Republican yeah anyone in the neoliberal kind of fashion of democrat too over the last 25 years is whatever it takes to accumulate an added ounce of money and power is what we're going to do use an ideology as a vector to do it to project American power which actually is a philosophy that creates American weakness in the name of creating an illusion of power and we're going to fight Foreign Wars and we're going to create a domestic surveillance State as a consequence and you could put a d at the end of it or you could put an r at the end of it the same philosophy hiding on on the front and that's what she represents and so I think what's going on in the Republican party right now is there's an ideological fissure about what this party is I mean what does it mean to be Republican it's kind of a meaningless term really it's Biden bad is the closest thing that the Republican part has had to an agenda in the last you know years Biden bad Trump good yeah pretty much Biden bad winner good our team good what do we what do we stand for and so I think we should stand for the two basic ideas I said at the beginning people we like to run the government should run the government they ow moral duty to the citizens of this nation not another one simple two simple ideas but I think there's an alternative view that says it's the job of the US to be the global hedgemon that's the police Global police statee keeper and in order to do that we have to have a federal police state at home that requires under the table violations of your constitutional rights and if that means tying your social media accounts to your government issued ID as a mandate to use the internet which is a policy she's advocated for that's what it takes and so the the post 911 Dick Cheney George Bush Patriot Act Iraq war fuming Republicans have created a modern Avatar it's called Nikki Haley right and they're trying to reclaim this thing known as the Republican party and then there's an alternative Vision that says it's what I would call kind of a Libertarian nationalist Vision I think I'm the only person to use that term but that's how I describe my view of the world to say that the the way of the future is one of guaranteeing at all costs our constitutionally freedoms and to take care of the citizens of this country so nikk represents traditional conservative I wouldn't even call it conservative because conservative is is let's find the right word the machine the fancy word for this would be neoconservative is she deep she's a product of the deep she's product of D Biden is also product of I would say of the okay that's a great way to look at it because it feels as if for the average person that Biden is being run right he is being run he's being run that's what the average person but we don't know what really that means who runs him do you have names of people who run him it's so comes back to this man it's the machine you could you what's the machine you could pick your Susan Rice's or the Hillary clintons or the Barack Obamas but it doesn't matter because currently do we know who's doing it's like the San Antonio Spurs right it doesn't matter run papovich runs that but who's the papovich yeah so so I think that I think imagine imagine if papovich steps out in the middle of a game and the whole thing just keeps running as its own machine Becky Hammond steps in I know the coaching even though if she's not there anymore but say it doesn't matter who it is and the Machine still runs I'm aware it is it is here's how here's how it works here's how it works go and this is not to go I I want to catch you I don't think that you're using R I'm genuinely trying to understand a phrase that I feel like I've used Without Really knowing so at a certain point the bureaucracy becomes its own creation that's what it is so if you want to take for example the FBI can I say one thing about this and how it helps me understand so in Hollywood before I did really anything in entertainment and I was on the outside of it I thought that there was these like organized meetings amongst people in Hollywood they were like here's the agenda we're going to push trans we're going to push gay we're going to push Hindu what I learned is that it's people that are trying to keep their job yeah and by trying to keep their job they're doing the things that they believe will be rewarded or very least they won't be punished yes so is this what you mean by so so there's a version of that um I mean I think that a lot of what most people refer to as conspiracy theories the ones that certainly are true are really just an amalgam of collective incentives that are hiding in sight that's that we think there's these nefarious individuals that are holding the there there is no smoke fil room to be you're Miss if if you're wor if you're fixated on where's the smoke filed room you're missing the point right right and so I think that like you know this idea of you know you're not supposed to utter uh you know the great replacement Theory or whatever this idea that there's an intentional plot to supplant the native White stock of the US for a bunch of people crossing the southern border to permanently secure electoral outcomes to the contrary that's conspiracy theory but if you take great replacement Theory out of it you take the idea of somebody concocting this in a smoke filed room out of it and then you just look at the last 20 years of policy much of one of the two political parties in the US as recently as about a decade ago said well immigration legal or not is going to be a key to securing lasting electoral majorities and so that's why we should tend to favor this including even in the context of that you can't even remember the context was convincing a kind of Bernie esque minority view that was sort of skeptical of competition for domestic workers to sort of it was a carrot to say no no no no I know that this might like in the short run run against some of the things you stand for but think about what it could open up in the long run if we have lasting electoral majorities so it was Earnest as a persuasion mechanism that today if offered utter uttered by people on the so-called other side becomes a conspiracy theory when it's nothing more than just so it Go the bureaucracy and I want to say the bureaucracy don't theate only because it implies that it's limited to the government what I call it people don't like it when I say this and say they say it doesn't resonate with people but the word that I use is it's the managerial class is Jamie Diamond part of the managerial class I think the people uh two to three layers below Jamie Diamond absolutely are and I think in some sense Jamie Diamond is is is on it so there's three classes of people of I talk about this in my first book woke in a little bit I mean you got the creators right the actual you could could be a professor at a university as opposed to the associate dean of God knows what could be the entrepreneur proprietor who started the company as opposed to the vice president of Human Resources could be the elected president of the United States versus you know the class that sits underneath them You' got the creators you've got the constituents customers shareholders voters and then you've got the managerial class who are The Hired middle management bureaucracy designed to administer that which the creators have created with the intention of serving the constituents but to make it scalable like that's that's the basic premise of it in a corporate context or not and I think we live in a moment right now where the balance of power between those three categories has vastly shifted towards the managerial class the committee class as we could call it the permanent the permanent bureaucracy or what we call in government the permanent State I think it's true in every sphere of our lives right now I think it's true in Corporate America I think it's true in universities but it so happens and I do think it's the mother of all bureaucracies it is absolutely true in the government that the people who we elect have almost nothing to do with what actually impacts most people's everyday lives compared to the permanent machine that sits under it and is fundamentally agnostic to the political party of who's on top as long as they're going to keep the party going so Joe bid's one version of that Nikki H's another version of that either which is a safe Choice deep state is essentially just bureaucracy and your mission as president would have been to eliminate dismantle a jack a jackhammer like chainsaw and I'm just trying to help people who might be like oh this guy wants to abolish the Department of Education what the is that you're just trying to eliminate the bureaucracy from the Department of Education eliminate the bureaucracy from so many of the FBI all because the bureaucrat the bureaucracy itself is causing what is causing a separation between what the constituents want and what the executive the dissipation of accountability is what disappears so they no the managerial yeah folks no longer have accountability to their constituents and that is because there is this they don't even have constituents that's the thing they don't even have constituents so I'll give it to you in a corporate context so we can depoliticize it then we can bring it back to politics like in Corporate America right now and this is where I spent my career shortly before running for president is you have something that happened basically in original OG capitalism you have the proprietor who's also the owner who's also so the CEO and the operator then it all comes out to a question of scale so the question is oh we couldn't scale that without hiring Professional Management so that the owner can do other things and create new things or or whatever the owner wants to do and so he hires the CEO and the CFO Etc and so there was like in business school for I don't know if you have back or doesn't matter but if you go to business school one of the things they'll teach you about is the separation of ownership and control so that was like one of the original sins kind of thing where the owner is no longer the person exercises control and that creates what they call a principal agent problem so the principal is the owner the agent is The Hired Hand and then like all of modern corporate law and business Theory and Securities Law is designed to basically address that Gap so they have these things called fiduciary duties that the CEO will owe to the owner but eventually they start behaving badly in a way that just flies run private jets at the owner's expense and claim that it's a business need and then that's where the private Equity industry was actually born in the 1980s designed to sort of say okay well we're going to retake ownership and clean house and that was like where the Henry kravis is and the and the Steve schwarzman kind of came from so that's in the in the realm of capitalism then something else happened in the last 20 years which is okay so we said the shareholders are the ones who have control but the managerial class having not taken it over at the level of the corporation went to the direction of the shareholders themselves they started to pretend to be the shareholders in the guise of firms like Black Rock and State Street or Vanguard whatever that Aggregate and I don't know how if these words mean anything yes okay I mean aggregate probably most of your money directly or indirectly 401K accounts Pension funds Etc to say that okay we are the shareholders but we're representing other people's money and so we're going to have you adopt policies that actually are in our own interest not the shareholders not not the actual shareholders were the capital since we are the shareholders cuz we're holding their money we're holding the stock exactly so you're using so let's say you're black rock and let's say you're two retirees you give your money over to Black Rock black rock buys shares in I don't know Apple sure actually that's a good example to use because there was a specific now they're using that leverage on Apple to do what they want which specifically on Apple and black rock this is a real life story in 2022 voted for racial Equity audits at Apple which Apple initially said hell no to but they said no no we're going to vote for it and then back in the old school version if the CEO was pushing that kind of philosophy the shareholders would say no you're the agent I'm the principal and you have a fiduciary duty to me but it's always a cat and mouse game but now it's gone to the shareholders and they're like no no no we are the shareholders and we're telling you that you need this black Ro CU cuz today if you go to the sec's website and see who are the shareholders of Apple they're going to be you know number one or two or three on the list this is really interesting and and so it's always this Captain Mouse game where the managerial class is always about getting one heads ups and that's there's a whole private sector version of this and two of my three books are about this stuff and we could go on for days about it but I use that as an analog CU I'm you talk about politics people lose their mind there's something similar going on and I think of even even greater Import in the government where there's a cat- and mouse game between the elected representatives who say what you will still have to go back to their constituents every couple of years yes every two four or six years depending on Congress president or Senate yes and and ask for permission to govern whereas what these people say is no no no how do we drain as much of that power as possible so that we're agnostic who are these people the bureaucrats the bureaucrats so these people absolutely people for as from electeds as possible to make sure that we're agnostic to who actually gets into power in those seats in the first place so they're neutering them int they're neutering them intentionally yes it depends how much detail you want to go into but I tell you all the detail this no this is very important because I think a lot of your ideas when explained in this way are incredibly digestible that's the problem is cable TV is 30 second hits or or hold on hold on one second that's the game though that is the game you know I got to get good at that I've I've I've you I mean we talked about uh you know Bernie for example like I remember when Bernie was going up against Trump and there was this real there was this real issue where I think like American voters really wanted it to be Bernie versus Trump and I think that they were so disillusioned with that would have been a good race that would have been a useful race for the country actually I I've like you know I said it was like ah the Democrats stole it from Bernie with the whatever but here's the reality that's the system that he was operating within and hasn't tried to change so if the system can break you or can sway using the what do they call the um super deles super delicates or whatever can that's the system that you and if you're not breaking that system if you're using that system that is you become a productive exactly now bring a jackhammer get the hell out 30 seconds a bite on M mmbc this is another problem with the bureaucracy you can even argue that is impossible to describe an issue that is this inundated with in 30 seconds so that people don't even know where the disconnect is between them and their representativ I'm sorry but I'm going to interrupt I'm reading woke Inc I actually do read you're reading it right now I'm reading right now listening to the audio book actually be honest I don't I read the audio book for that one I read that I know that's why I was more like inclined to do it the the book and you're how far you are chapter eight you are one of the most brilliant people I've ever heard speak most people are not you I'm an idiot I'm listening to your book and I'm not a lot of this I'm just struggling to keep up as you're even speaking now but I'm reading woken and you take this kind of wonx philosophy and you make that The Boogeyman of corporate America and I'm just an idiot who's listening to you and I'm like well corporations and you acknowledge it a little bit you're like look corporations weren't they were corrupt before but this is the problem this woke onomics is what's ruining the country and it's like no the country been again I'm talking like an idiot okay I think the issue if you had made this about how bureaucracy ruins government even outside of if you make it woke ink and then you make whole boogy you're framing it as wokeness when the problem isn't just you heard me talk a lot T about that in the last year for a reason so one is just bring you context one thing I tell people about woke Inc is first of all I I I I probably the three books I wrote most proud of that one just because it took more of an effort versus the next two you already got your flow going but I agree with about 95% of what's in there that's the first thing I will say you my I've written two books since then and some of those I evolved from certain of my micro views but the other thing I will say is was just a product of my latest experience I was a biotech CEO the story I think I tell to start of the book yeah and there's a state there's a demand that I make a statement on behalf of BLM I refused to do it six months later I write an opet in the Wall Street Journal with a former law professor and then multiple advisers to my company are resigning what the hell is going on and actually the the corporate America was in a different and weird place in 2020 than it is today so I don't I don't mean to be defensive but I don't believe I said that oh this is really the the threat to American future existence but it was but it was what landed on my doorstep right and so that was that was the thing that moved me to write that book what I will say is so so when I when I I want people to digest this this is interesting because I think a lot of people have looked at that book without even reading it as oh he wants to run for president he's seeing this woke wave going he's going to write a book about how wokness is destroying everything and he's going to use that popularity to run for president if you actually read the book what you're describing is you were put in a situation where you could not do your fiduciary responsibility to your shareholders at where I felt was the right what you felt because of this what do you even call this this like social pressure make a call there was yeah there was social pressure and a philosophy that was restricting your ability to run your company to the best and and to be clear in my case it was a really mild example of it so I don't I don't think I've ever overstated that in the case of my company it was it was a small shade compared to what was going on in the rest of corporate America but it opened my eyes that even in that landing on my own doorstep and multiple advisors to my company stepping aside because of my own views that companies should stay out of politics was an eye-opening moment and I wrote a book about the reflections that came out of that at the time I titled woke in and sent it to the publisher the main criticism that I got including from people in that world was that nobody had heard this not enough people had heard this word woke so this book is going fall flat this is back in 2020 when we named it that's funny by the time it came out a year and a half later then the actual criticism was this is too controversial and you're weaponizing the word woke and then if that book were to have come out today I'm sure the criticism would be that this is benal like it's it's and you know what that time they might actually be right see if I wrote that book today and it comes out if somebody else gives me a book that says the same thing woking is coming out today I'm like come on guys like this is this is this is tired but it wasn't when when it came out out it was it was intended to be read in the moment when it came out is what I would say and you could read it now for insight into how I think about things but it was it was a product of my own experiences and a product of where I think we were in a particularly weird place in our country we the the fight has moved on and one of the titles one of the chapter titles in Wok Kink was the rise of the managerial class that's one chapter we blew that out into a full third book I wrote a second book called nation of victims and then the third one is called capitalist punishment which is all about actually is more specific to sort of ESG and capital markets but goes into this deeper issue of the managerial class there's this author called I think I don't know if he's on the left or on the right or some comination too but Michael Lind wrote a book recently and he was in the school of thought of this guy um You probably a century ago Burnham Burnham James Burnham who talked about this almost like back in the 30s where this has been a phenomenon that's existed for a long time time and what it actually gets to is this is as as esoteric as it might sound what we're talking about this is what the American Revolution was actually fought about see see the American Revolution was fought over the idea with the part I left out about the Deep state is the people who are believing that they need to drain the lifeblood out of the politicians the the most Sinister part of it is they believe they're doing it not even for their own good but for the good of humanity and for the country they believe that the elected represent alism in their exactly it is it is a noble that has to be told that we live in a democracy even if you call what do you mean I'm just trying to help you I think it's even one step than that this I know what you mean and you could think that about me but I know I'm doing the right thing but I know I'm doing the right thing and so I'm going to do it anyway and see that's what the American Revolution was F we got to stop using the word deep State I agree I agree I call it the permanent State Shadow government but I call it the managerial class because it's not the state it starts to sound so conspiratorial I really think and it's not even about conspiratorial it's really about this idea that there are these people with nefarious intent and when we remove ourselves exactly individual and nefarious action it's something it's it's a systematic phenomenon because you force a person who believes they're doing good right will noten believe the means are Justified talking about me can't you're talking about me I'm doing good for my people I'm doing I'm doing what's right and that's what you have to understand is these people believe that they're doing what's right for Humanity and for most of human history now you take now you now I say the American Revolution was fought for now you take a historical view for most most of human history make an American Revolution point because I'm still a little come to I'm bringing that in here pre-american Revolution for most of human history The View was okay the idea that you get to speak your mind openly as long as I get to in return or the idea that we the people cause a government to come into existence that's accountable to us or every one of us has a voice and vote that counts equally in like this weird Democratic process where we count up votes and decide who's in charge and you get to vote them out that's nutty right these but the people would demand would cause Humanity itself to cease to exist that's how stupid people are is the kinds of decisions they would make the American Revolution was fought on the 1776 was based on one idea which is that for better or worse we the people still decide who governs so it wasn't just an American Revolution it was a revolution of thought it was it was fundamentally a revolution of thought absolutely which echoed a little bit and mutated a little bit to get to the French Revolution in 1789 but let's just talk about the American re was I think I think the OG version of this and and the intellectual predecessors of it were like John lock it started in Europe but our founding fathers they weren't the most I mean they were brilliant people but they weren't The Originators but they were the implementers of a vision of Enlightenment thought that caused the United States to come into existence they had a juvenile enough system that they could Implement these ideas that's right that's right and so that's what the American Revolution was fought for and so then we have to accept that we're the weird ones actually we as an America cuz for most human history in most countries even many across the world today those that haven't followed America's example that's how it's done and so what you're seeing right now isn't this devious new Sinister conspiracy the to the norm it's just a revert to the norm it's exactly what it is it's just a it's just the natural historical tendency so we live in this anomaly but right now this just reverting to the norm of all of human history I saw you talking at uh when when you were stumping for for Trump in New Hampshire and you likened it to the American Revolution and I IR rolled because I didn't understand contextually what you were talking about that's what I'm talking about I probably didn't explain it as no it's not about explaining it's like you said in these short amounts of time it's very hard to break down an idea this sophisticated like think about it took us 30 minutes to go from the initiation of the deep State just the idea for us to understand to how it works in Corporate America to back to politics and how humans have been operating in this way because it's const it's is it and weirdly like there's like a biological impulse for it probably we're not there's almost societal impulse part of it's native hardw part of it's just the nature of human nature and how we relate to each other and and and this thing about the old worldview that Humanity would cease to exist that's literally what much of the managerial class believes today as it relates to climate change I mean for example you can pick your favorite one Co that if we really left it to self-governance and we were serious about that you know pick your favorite fill in the blank the planet would cease to exist so it has to be a small group of enlightened members of the managerial class that do what's right an not just because and not just because they want to enrich themselves in their pocketbook now here's the distin to draw too stupid the Nicki haly of the world are in it for their pocketbook but remember we said they're not the Manero class they're the pawns for the man CL seen this the man Class Cuts them in because those are operators but what they really the real people who are the real managerial class hardcore are actually doing it out of a sense of benevolence there's there's a uh and I I don't want to completely discredit this entire conversation because I think it's great by comparing it to burning man but I do have a point about burning man have you ever gone I've always wanted to but we never made it actually one of the one of the T is this radical self-reliance there's nobody really watching but there's no one really watching you right there's nobody watching you build there's no like Constructor like a do people going oh is this is how many nails that you put into this is this going to fit is everything going to work out right there's no traffic cop that's just waiting to make sure you stop at a stop sign or anything like that everybody is relying on theirself and when you're relying on yourself you want to build something you can walk on you want to build something you can jump on you want to make sure you stop because there might be a card it's about to run in front of you there is a kind of neutering of people when you have Daddy or Mommy around all the time making sure you don't do anything bad and it speaks to what you just said this idea of if you leave us to our own devices and I understand berning man is super privilege and people have a lot of money and time whatever but it is people being left to their own devices to take care of themselves and they're accountable if anything goes wrong with yours and when you're accountable if anything goes wrong nobody's going to come pick you up necessarily you're going to make sure you know what maybe I'm not going to build this with too few screws maybe I'm not going to find a way to cheap myself out of this situation because I could hurt myself and I could hurt the people around me so I think it does speak to what you're talking about which is this like self-reliance has been almost stripped and it's been Stripped by an arrogance yes an arrogance of they're too dumb to build the thing correctly right now there is another side of that which is these people are going to build something for someone else and if we don't regulate the way they build it they'll build it in the cheapest way and take advantage of those innocent people that also exists like as much as unions are a pain in the ass they were created for a reason they're they came into existence for a reason the created implies that so this you're going have a separate discussion about unions I actually have very different attitude towards private sector unions than I do to public sector no public sector if you're negotiating the government it's very peculiar people yeah and also the people but think about it like you're negotiating against somebody who's out of office in two or three years right so of course if I'm mayor and I want to get the teachers union on my side and be like well listen I'm out of here to be governor in a few years yeah give them whatever deal they want if I'm negotiating against my boss who I have to work for or he has to hire me and all of my the other workers part of this company this is a 10year relationship a 20e relationship a 30-year relationship I'm going to make sure we hammer out a deal that's beneficial for the both of us but I feel too often what happens with people in politics is yeah just give them whatever they want who cares what the happens to the state I'm out in four years because I'm going to do something else and that's why negotiating against public sector is different than the private sector I agree all right guys we're going to take a break for a second listen let's face it okay we want a a healthy way to eat protein packed meals but spending hours in the kitchen to make healthy food is awful that's why you got to check out Flex Pro meals okay they cook high protein flavorful food and deliver it right to your door ready to eat the next day listen they also offer keto glutenfree and dairyfree meals to fit whatever diet you're on and if you're really hungry their large meals come with 50% more protein pack on the protein your muscles need it they will thank you not only later but right there in the moment and for our flagrant listeners only by the way you can get 40% off any of the 35 meals from Flex Pro 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the show all right guys we're going to take a break for a second listen today's episode is proudly sponsored by Morgan and Morgan America's largest injury Law Firm they've been fighting for the people for over 35 years with a remarkable track record they've recovered over 20 billion with a B billion dollars for their clients and have helped over 500,000 families but here's the exciting news not only does Morgan and Morgan have their clients backs they got your backs too in collaboration with us over here at flagrant they are giving one lucky fan two Grands and two tickets to catch your boy May perform the life tour in Los Angeles this coming March that's right we're going to be at the Kia Forum so you get to come to the soldout show at the Kia Forum okay the in Magic built the Forum in La they're going to give you two grand and two tickets okay you could be the lucky winner cold heart cash two grand and two tickets to watch your boy March 30th at the keia Forman Los Angeles it's an opportunity of a lifetime and entering to win is easy just text flagrant to for the people that's 484 373 6753 and follow the prompt for your chance to win $2,000 and two tickets to my show just text flagrant to for the people that is 484 373 6753 now let's get back to the show can you break down what you mean by dismantling the bureaucracy because it sounds good within Poli so so so it's like the you if you have like an - hited hydro and you cut off one of the heads it grows right back that's what that's the model of incremental reform that's you know Ronda sandz when he says I want to fire Christopher Ray at the FBI that's the way I view it is cosmetic change what you're saying is like Christopher Ray is one guy Chris is like that are going to keep 35,000 35,000 other guys so so I mean shut down the FBI so so the institution known as the Federal Bureau of Investigation what I call failed Bureau of Investigation because I think it has failed to even carry out its basic law enforcement functions on issues ranging from child trafficking to defal epidemic actually the right answer is to shut it down so there's always the risk when you're take well I'll tell you what the mechanics look like but there's always the risk you're going to take some risk one risk because you don't cut enough fat the other is that you take you cut so much that you also cut some muscle you can't say no I'm going to cut all of it and just the precise amount because if you're bringing a chainsaw that's not a plan yeah my where I'm different than most people is I am willing to take the risk of cutting so much that we cut some muscle but I believe the right approach will then to be regrow in a precise manner that which you overcut rather than to take the risk of not cutting enough which I think is an illusion in some ways the worst of all worlds which gives the people the sense that something happened without actually anything of me isn't that our risk what's that that's our risk that's the one that's what's happening right now what I'm saying is that's not your risk it's the people's risk but that's what I mean well I'm saying us as the people right us as us as the people you said I'm the politician willing to take the risk I'm like yo you're taking a risk on my behalf security okay I guess that's rooted in the theory that he doesn't think they're acting for the people yeah they're acting I'm just myself volunteering to repr B what's so bad with the FBI so I think the FBI has been rotten since its Inception yeah and it was it it was the embodiment of the managerial class so Jed Grover built himself in his institution to be effectively insulated from any form of public accountability he uh I don't know if you guys here's a book I would actually really recommend my wife has read it about anything there's a book called Gman I would read it okay it's not some right-wing screed I promise it's it's like a Yale historian for all I know is a lefty for all I know is talks about the history of the J can I just Define one thing for everybody listening watching right now we're going to use the term manager manage Euro class for the rest of the podcast this is essentially the middleman between what the people want and the politicians that are serving them or the workers of a company and who the up call call yeah exactly that sounds good own the princi or the owners of the so there there's this system the committee class the committee class the managerial class whatever it is but these people aren't necessarily working yep for the company they might not in the in Black Rock they are but they're not working for the government necessarily they are it's a separate breed of middle of middle management bureaucrats it's like the equivalent of who sits in between the student and the tenured professor at the university is is the dean of in politics how does this present itself is it politicians three letter agencies the threel agencies got it that's what we're talking about FBI SEC ATF CDC Department of Education TSA DEA DEA about companies what about uh you know what about um Boeing or it gets it gets so so the way I view companies is they view these unaccountable nodes as their vehicles for capture and the node is the politician the agency the agency the agency so that's where power gets concentrated it's in an unaccountable place then it's just about capturing it so you are talking about actually cutting people at these agencies I'm talking about shutting the whole agency shutting the whole agency down because the idea isar to like how people said defund the police they complained of how the police has been running all this time so now they're like think this leg so so so my view is on on the FBI on the FBI's case there's 35,000 employees at the FBI and by there the same FBI that 60 years ago was incorrectly collecting tapes of Martin Luther King and threatening him over to commit suicide over you know his his a fronts or whatever that today is going after saw he saw the tattoo been collecting information this whole time I like the tattoo it made an that today is actually now going after I believe political opponents who have have a political persuasion that the benevolent dictators inside the three ler agency have decided need to be quashed just like they decided he needed to be quashed so it's not a partisan point I'm making but so that is 35,000 employees at the FBI 20,000 of them are the back office bureaucrats that are the classic typical manager class when I say shut down the FBI those 20,000 are going home and finding honest work whatever it is and by the way we happen to a moment where most businesses have more job openings than there are people looking for work in this country so maybe we can kill two birds with one stone but either way they're going home the 15,000 cops on the front lines investigative agents we will move them to say the US Marshals which I mean everything I'm naming they each have their own problems but they're not as an institution has not suffered the same level of rot that the FBI yeah and and and the yes and the US Marshals has been far more effective than the FBI in going after child sex trafficking rings and you know you can even talk about the DA has a lot of its faults but sooner I would move them to the DEA than than keep them at the FBI to go for the fentel epidemic there's a financial crimes enforcement Network at the US Treasury to go after the future sbfs or the ftxs or the financial fraudsters of the world the remaining 15,000 move them that's shutting down the FBI looks like how do you decide who's who how do you decide 15,000 good 20,000 bad well the the to the 15,000 are investigative agents like that are not sort of police offic the equivalent of the cops actually so so we we use that Frontline talent but deputized by at least a bureaucracy that has not been corrupted in the same way that the current FBI has and the current FBI makes it pretty nakedly transparent it's still for God's sake the J Edgar Hoover building the name of the building they're celebrating the guy's Legacy today so I would say shut it down and and I'm different than every other Republican in that regard but I think that that's actually the correct answer but this is this is this is why we need like context for these conversations saying shut down the FBI is such like a volatile headline that when I see that and I'm like what a ridiculous notion like what is he saying is he just trying to Trump up some you know's my wife is my wife is the best friend because she's she's not a politicized person she's brilliant person she thought this is she initially thought this crazy talk she's actually the one who found Gman she's just like all right I know my husband he's saying some stuff that people say sounding crazy but let me just form my own opinion and so she's actually the one that clued me into into Gman which is I don't think anybody who reads that book will come out believing anything other than not they're going to think well I'm going to say it's crazy they think the stat they will you will agree with me the status quo is what's crazy czy and it's it's crazy that we ever allowed for the creation of an institution like this that was this insulated from account your umbrella is not shut down the FBI your umbrella is shut down any actor agency single person that interrupts what the people want and how that is executed exactly and here's the thing I can't take credit for that but real quick just because our founding fathers said it in motion so is there's three branches of government in the United States real quick so we don't move off cuz I don't want people to to miss this because I think this an important point you thought the FBI was being used to I guess remove certain potential nominees or to tarnish their image to to interfere with election processes is that fair among other things not just give one example so people can digest so I the FBI I I believe yeah I believe the FBI played a role MH I'm saying the decid we don't have the facts but based on what we know talking about Biden well I I I believe the FBI even played a role in instigating January 6th okay so perfect example we can talk about both of those things but just so I people don't just just so people don't miss both and I want to get back to that but just so people don't miss miss the point the point is if the FBI itself or is being used to interrupt what the people want and this situation it is a nominee and if they're tarnishing the image of that nominee now the people don't get the elected official that they actually desire B false pretenses exactly and then that is the problem with the managerial class in the same way it's a problem with black rock with your investment that is one of many problems with the man I think I think that is a very digestible way of going so it's not even the FBI is the problem it's not the letters it's the fact that this organization has been used as a weapon to remove the freedom of the people to elect a person that they feel represents exactly with imp this if those elected representes pass bad laws well that's your fault as Thomas Jefferson says that's your Thomas Jefferson great quote I'm going to bot it but but basically he says the people deserve the government they vote for and I government sucks you voted for and listen and he's the guy wrote the Declaration of Independence by way the Deep state is essentially just the manager who can act without the president people and the Deep State and it's and it's not in a critical sense I'm in a descriptive sense the Deep State effectively says yes the people people are going to get the government they vote for and it's going to suck because people are idiots IDI and they cannot be trusted condescension and and they're it's it's bad for them and so we need to make sure that people don't get the government they they vote for because that's going to be a pretty shitty government and they better get actually one that actually allows them to have what's better for them even though they don't know let's use maneral class instead of deep say just so I just want cuz this this is like the managerial class it's I think a really important point that I think would resonate with people because the average person I feel right now is so disillusioned with government I think that's why you see like people going how is Biden president how is there nobody else that's out there what the hell is going on and I think that's why Bernie and I think that's why Trump were these two figures that got so much support because they were both seen as Outsiders to the system so people are disillusioned with the system and the system is the managerial class that makes me feel like the people that I am voting for do not represent my actual interest or that feeling is grounded in truth like it's not just a feeling an accurate perception of what is true like what you said right there with the FBI if the FBI if right if the FBI is limiting my options of people to vote for and I'm just voting for the lesser of two evils which I think both sides end up kind of doing you're voting for in your brain the lesser of two evils you have limited my option to vote for the person that I truly want to represent me so that is the so if the FBI or if any other three-letter agency or anything else is restricting my representation I agree we should have some way of of you know taking a jackhammer to that system I don't know what it is but to me that is a way more digestible yes yeah does that make sense did you guys know initially when he said that my question is do we need some version of a managerial class are you here to abolish it or recreate it I think I think that we go through these Cycles in history right but I think that we live in one of the moments where the only way you're going to going to slay the Leviathan and I use that term Leviathan Thomas Hobbs I mean this is what the stuff I'm describing by the way is like these are not original observations they've this has been a struggle for most of human history yeah but it's what Thomas Hobs called the Leviathan is what we're calling the machine or the managerial class we live in a moment right now where it is imposs I believe it is impossible to incremental pick around the edges of it MH I think right now the only available effective option is to take the risk and probably there's going to be some cost involved probably there's going to be some negatives that come out of it I'll be the first to acknowledge that but on net undoubtedly the right thing to do is nonetheless to come in and break the hell out of the glass and acknowledge there's going to be some inconvenience that may come from that and a trans frictional transitional cost but absent our willingness to do that it just isn't otherwise going to happen there happen and so that's up to the people who come next it's going to happen again and then we got to break it again exactly and so that becomes that becomes that iterative cycle but hopefully it never gets to the place where the scale of the wreckage needs to be what it is now but the question is that's up to every one of us makes our own unique contribution and imprint this is the imprint that the next leader successful leader of our country I think needs to make okay and then and then it's up to the guy who comes after and and to the people who come after and what we decide and iteratively how we respond to that because then inevitably there's going to be some Calamity it's going to be how did how did we allow that to happen yeah and then we're going to actually we're going to accept a trade-off that's in the other direction of that Calamity aren't we smart enough to have prevented this well it was really self-governance that got us there so this becomes I mean this is The Human Experience right this is iteratively the struggle that like human history is all about but this is right now where we are in my it sounds good it's just hard to run on that because think about the 20,000 people and their families that are let go of just that one agency and then the 30,000 here and the 50,000 I've had I've had people in the rooms with me be like oh like my my uncle or my son or is working in this agency and I answer them honestly which is that I don't think and it sounds like a crude thing to say but it's the truth I don't think that the job of the federal government is or should be to provide employment opportuni I just don't I think the Rob federal government is represent interest of the people now it turns out by God one of the main things limiting our economic growth right now is literally if you're a small business or even a large business the number one thing that's stopping you from expanding right now is literally finding people to staff your open positions so that's the country we live in right now and one which we have the massive problem that we do not to mention the cost of this I mean it's not cost free from a taxpayer perspective when we're $34 trillion in the whole as a nation as well in national debt to say that I I have sympathy for many of the individuals involved because as I said it's not one of these as like a culprit and evil person but the right thing to do for the nation is for those for public service to be about public service and not about guarantor of employment opportunity and that we need to live in a thriving country in which those people find employment opportunity elsewhere in an economy that right now happens to be hungering for more people to fill open roles of employment and so you're right you're Mak a political point you that may not win you friends amongst those voters and that's true I've also had many people who have come up and said I've worked in these bureaucracies and I understand that I would lose my job but you're right I've seen it and I and I agree with you which is also heartening as well I'm not saying that's everybody but I think that that's for people who have been on the inside what I'm saying is not that foreign to process and in anyway the piece about shutting it down is like I think you do it in an orderly way right so I want to lay off 75% of the federal bureaucracy over the course of the first term so we'd stage it over four years we're not doing all of that on day one the first four agencies IID said I would shut down would be FBI ATF CDC and US Department of Education we've got I if I may say so myself I would like to think relatively orderly plans for carrying this out please explain Department of Education that's another one that I heard your take and it was really smart but I think to people it's like what the are you talking about just so it's just so jarring and I'm for you because You' so this you've so about this you've been in the think tank meetings with your people you're like how can we execute this incredibly difficult task it probably seems like an absolute no-brainer right and one of the tricky things about being a politician which I'm sure you've learned which is different than being a CEO is when it comes to a CEO and I'm subscribing to you I'm going I want to work for this guy believe in this guy I don't even need you to convince me I trust that you know what we're going to do and maybe I'll go hey I think this is a good way do it and then I could influence your opinion but when it comes to being a politician you're going to make this change and you need to convince me that this change is in my best interest and when I just hear shut down the because you're the boss actually that's what it is exactly people people lose that sense one of the beauties of this Iowa caucus process i' I did more events than all the other candidates combined yeah which is I realized actually through the process what this was actually about if if the if this process of like Iowa going first through this caucus system is about something it's actually about instilling humility into the candidates what it's about is you otherwise forget who the boss is right and so like I got some 27y old kid comes to one of my events he's like give me your accountabilities what are you going to do what by 12 months like how will I know you accomplished what I told you to accomplish and it landed with me because that sounds like a question I was asking back when I was a CEO hiring people but if you're a presidential candidate you got to remember this is a job inter so I was like this kid gets it like I'm really I'm really into that also guys don't forget about prize picks hurry up and sign up and playoffs is the best time of the year this is what you got to do I'm giving you my sing locks first of all this is a four player thing so this a four player pick so if you hit you can make you can make some cash off of prize picks first of all Isaiah Peko will get more than 63 and a half rushing yards Patrick Mahomes will get more than 248 a half passing yards Travis Kelce I love you I love what you're doing with Taylor Swift but I think you're going to get less than 65 receiving yards and Lamar Jackson MVP I think you're going to get more than 212 passing yards and sign up for priz pick.com use that promo code Schultz they will match your initial deposit up to $100 so you put in$ 100 you for free now let's get back to this episode of The V awami but anyway say the Department of Education and then I want to come back to your point about the political because it there's there's there's something important I want to say about that but you asked about Department of Education so yeah the Department of Education let's go to why it was created in the first place see here's the thing with some of these agencies is they were created with often understandable intentions but they should have been a task force rather than an agency a task force folds up and moves on when it's completed its purpose this was created in the post desegregation era immediately after desegregation the Civil Rights Movement to make sure that southern states were not siphoning money from predominantly black school districts to white school districts and that was in some measure at least happening in certain areas so that's how the Department of Education was created I would never create a bureaucracy to solve this problem cuz you know where that road ends but at least say what you will that was the intention of having created it what it then became became iteratively was okay that's not happening anymore but the bureaucracy still has to live on and any institution that continues to exist after it has achieved success ends up becoming a rot of itself it's what happened to the UN it's what happened to I think NATO but we can talk about each this what happened to the Department of Education we'll get that and so and so what happens with the Department of Education is they then start to focus on okay but how do we ensure equality in other ways it's not just the funds how are we going to ensure equality in other ways that's where a lot of the affirmative action and the racial quota systems and what became the modern di agenda and anti-racism says there are certain things that you have to adopt as a school we have an $80 billion budget about 10% of public school budgets come from the Department of Education it's 10% of most Local Schools their budget comes from a grant from the Department of Education but the US Department of Education says you don't get that money unless you teach or adopt XY or z a lot of those includes hiring quotas race gender Etc increasingly with respect to gender and sexual identity as well actually there's some schools in the midwest that wanted to teach archery or hunting they say you don't get that money if you that is part of your curriculum so they start to play a centralized God over what does or doesn't end up in in the curriculum and here you have the managerial class the managerial class finest because those people that work there are not elected right they're not elected are you kidding me so this is perfect example what you're talking about the material class comes in they dictate policy and policy is not being dictated by the people who should be represented at all they're electing officials that might go against what the Department of Education wants for these schools and the Department of Education is still leveraging their power and resources on these schools they look those Congressman that and say yes sir yes sir and then just continue to do exactly what they were going to do regardless of what those Congress people told them to do and so what I say is that $80 billion instead just give that back directly to the states and put in the pockets of parents right who then get to decide where they send their kids to school and I while we're doing school choice we might as well go on steroids here we're in New York City right now having this conversation in New York City the worst schools are the ones that spend the most money it's actually true across the country too so bad Public School in the city spends about $40,000 per student per year good ones in this city charter schools and otherwise will be closer to $115,000 per student per year so imagine if you have that money coming back from the Department of Education to some family and queens or Brooklyn or bronx or Manhattan for that matter it doesn't matter and they're able to now be empowered to choose where they send their kid to school 90% of the time if they're switching their kid from the bad school to the good one they're sending them to a school that actually spends less money per student so while we're at it I'm just saying let's do this let the parent take half let the kid take half the difference with them so so if it's $40,000 at a crappy public school and 15,000 here let's just say it's 20,000 for even numbers the kid gets take $10,000 put in the investment account if you start in kindergarten and that's compounding that kid graduates with a quar million do graduation GI done see college and then some or or not college and start a business or become an electrician or go to onee school and there's a part of the Department of Education in recent years is there some good that the Department of Education arguably does there's some that is in vocational training fine move that to the Department of Labor where it belongs any quick question why so that's how we would organize why do the bad school spend more how does that happen so it's actually the teachers unions bureaucracy separate managerial class in the managerial class yeah yeah it's like it's like a separate I mean it's one horizontal managerial class fact or this is like the the teachers unions the variable fiable fact is the thing schools with unionized teachers actually have demonstrably poorer results at a demonstrably higher cost but that's not a function of the Union that's a function of like what schools those yeah there's a lot there's a lot so some saying demonstrable I'm just going to give you the fact I'm going but believe but but I believe there's a causal role here where swimming in that level of money breeds excess so leave the teachers unions or Etc out of it yeah but swimming in that amount of money without accountability that money is not tied to the performance they deliver anything else it's just what's coming on from on high via the state in this case the state of New York the schools that actually running on less money are the ones actually delivering better better results on a per student basis most private schools spend less money per student yes than the public schools take these take these Elite Ultra Elite New York schools out of because they they they skew the average based on how expensive they are but that's a distortion because people have a lot of expendable income here and they're builing billionaires who don't care about a $660,000 versus $40,000 tuition but across the country broadly speak also there's scarcity with those schools so that's that's a little bit of an anomaly here in New York City but across the board 90% of the time if you're switching your kid from a bad school to a better one you're switching to a school that spends less money per student on a student basis now I'm sure there's many reasons for that but the one tricky thing is I think that Americans are abundantly aware of these organizations but not really clear what they do so when we hear abolish we go well don't we need that yeah so with the Department of Education let's say the department of Ed education is abolished how do we have some sort of agreed upon curriculum that will educate the students to a sufficient level where they where they can suce succeed at you know government regulated tests and then get into the university as their choice so I think National standardized testing and it doesn't have to be run by the government across the board is is but like the actual curriculum and that's twofold how do we make sure that we're teaching our kids because you can look at this B minimums they need to know and also like this this is going to sound up but like there is a version of uh of American history that you could also say is bastardized but I think there's an important version of American History like teaching the the value of the Constitution teaching Americans like why they're part of this great experimen and in if that's really important you one most controversial parts of my campaign platform was and I stand by it is I think every High School senior who graduates from high school should have to pass the same Civics test that every immigrant has to pass in order to become a voting citizen country my mom just became she passed the test it's not that hard a test it shouldn't be yeah I met a 10-year-old girl in Iowa who heard about the controversy she brought one of the tests to me 100 questions she got 100 out of 100 60% passing score she's 10 years old but but they're questions that you wouldn't be shocked that most Americans would fail because they because that's what happens today if you ask most Americans take it how many branches of government are there what branch of government does the US president lead and probably probably some of the harder questions are you know who are three who who are the three people who wrote The Federalist Papers or or whatever we could sort of go down the list but he lost me on that last one that's but 60% see Hamilton 60% 60% is a passing score right and so and what they do actually for the Immigrant population is there's 100 questions they pick 10 six out of 10 gets you through this girl 10 years old she took 100 test she got 100 out of 100 but I don't think that that's too much to demand of ourselves as Citizens some of this falls in the families I think it I think all education begins with the family and I do think that there's no escaping the reality that some of that accountability still has to rest at the level of the individual family and I think part of what happened is you were given the example earlier of that sort of General loss of individual accountability I think there's a lot to that story where one of the things I said in the campaign as well made some people upset but the nuclear family is still the greatest form of governance known to mankind even go back to the days of Aristotle you have the the man the individual man who's part of a family the household the household was ultimately the form of government really and then you have a broader form of government that takes the existence of the household into account it's been the part of the building block of every great country known to humanity in our history and so I do think that the abandonment of the project of the family giving up on that and believing we have to fill in substitutes for it actually gets it backwards versus saying we have a system that puts that accountability and empowerment this is the same thing empowerment and accountability go together at the level of the we're basic sorry but but it's the same thing we're speaking to it's like hey you guys aren't smart enough to raise your kids hey you guys are too stupid to have a strong nuclear family we'll do it for you we'll you guys are too stupid dep now now are you going to find what makes it tough is cuz just to see the other side you're always going to find right a kid who grew up in some like truly broken family and like the father's some I don't know people do bad things you can make up whatever story you want it's probably going to be a real story that's out there somewhere abusing kid this or that and to say that well what about that kid and so you I think we got to really understand what makes the our argument for the managerial class compelling is that there will always be that failure of individual accountability but I would still rather but this is what the American Revolution was again fought for is to say that for remember when I told you this even but 20 minutes ago we're talking about this For Better or For Worse yeah that's we the people still and that's respons Fu tough argument to sell man like because now you're talking about a kid that grew up in a broken family kid's got and I'm raising the hard case on purpose because you got to at least understand exactly what that best argument is and so my view is after that find the minimally invasive solution that solves for actually the worst cases that need to be dealt with rather than a permanent bureaucracy that's a superet that assumes that to be the do you have that solution in mind so so for that for that particular case a lot of those are going to be legal violations under existing law anyway like if I use the case of somebody's abuse like that's that's a guy breaking the law as it exists should we have a foster care system that itself is deburau critized Yes actually most adoption and Foster Care Systems are themselves suffering from the existence of a managerial class that has Le caused those to be less effective than they are today too and so we can keep playing this forward but as a person who's the advocate and the staunchest advocate for my deburau cretization view there is I also want to be the first to acknowledge that there will always be because it's not honest otherwise there will always be some possibility of a tradeoff and you want to min miniz that to the fullest extent possible but but life and structuring a society like it is about making choices and for me the American way is that we choose self-governance and individual responsibility as our way and the less self-governance we have the more lifeblood we suck out of that individual responsibility the point I want to make earlier though to your point about the political piece of this is hard to sell in the context of the Republican primary I would just love for you guys and I don't know how you would characterize your viewers ERS ship base but how would you characterize your viewership base like what kind of people who knows large large lar really big size 14 sick dud so so all right understanding that so I think what I would say is I maybe there's people from a lot of different buckets let's assume that so I've been I've been educated some pretty Elite institution I didn't grw up in Elite America but I've lived it yeah I think most people I appreciated your like humility in this conversation I don't know a lot about a lot of things but I know about the things I care about but you're asking me very curious questions about My Views here but what I will say is most people who will wear a Maga hat on a given day not all but but most at at you know one of my events was crazy I or something mag it's Maga either way works fine potato potato you know that's why po they've been switching it yeah in the news they say they say MAA now why what happened that sounds so Yan bro America First mag mag I'm yeah I'm I'm going to stick to I'm going to stick to my version but but you know you're you know it's free country so so so most actually it's going to be a more free country when we're when we're through is you know but but but I'm picking I'm picking like an image of somebody who like the news media will write off or whatever and you know people who I've gone school with or whatever that will view as like the Rubes across the country the concepts I'm describing have a deep scholarly history that many people would have studied in the Harvard political science department without recognizing it I think most people when I'm talking about shut down the Deep State what you may mistake for I'm being presumptive or maybe you don't but what you may mistake for being just a I'm saying something here that sounds nuanced but then I'm saying something there that sounds like red me and people are cheering in the audience it is my firm conviction having not just spoken to audiences but like we've been doing this 6:00 a.m. to 11: p.m. for a year and even Heading In the period running into presidents for launching my books and stuff for a couple years you could say I think most people who are applauding at that know why they're applauding at that I think they deeply understand the essence of what's going on in the country I said about two3 okay that's but that's what I would say and so politically actually the thing that was challenging for me in this was not the handful of people who would say you know my son or my father-in-law is going to lose his job because of this in fact many of them still would say but I still agree with you that it's the right thing the real challenge is actually many people in the America first base who love the things I'm saying I think fundamentally just didn't trust me completely I think L because I'm new there's a lot of things that are different about me but you know not had heard of me or new on scen versus saying that even though the things I'm saying and my commitments where I to be president would be going further than Trump in this direction of dismantling these bureaucracies and more aligned with what people want to see I think the trust Factor was I think the Gap that stopped it from happening this time around and I think that that's fair if most most people didn't hadn't heard of me you know N9 months ago I think the wording was too radical and that created a distrust I think there's a lot of things that created a distrust I think that I I talk really fast head I mean I think there's a full package can I tell you my distrust as a brown guy it felt like this guy doesn't like I now I see you don't really love either political party why is he running right and seemingly catering to this farri group with terms like deep state with tenants of 10 like Reverse Racism is still racism and I'm not okay I found this on the web for turn light deep State listen they're listening this got be serious that was black Ro Black Rock interruped my flow but I was just like it seems like he's catering to I don't like anybody catering to either ex catering to either extreme I hate it but I felt like he's catering to a group of people that just aren't going to vote for him and as a brown dude even hearing that story man that broke my heart made me want to cry like you're sitting here talking to this Pastor who's like I'd never vote for somebody who doesn't have my faith and I'm looking at you like yeah I don't why is he doing that I I I I tell you man this is it was this is a good-hearted person who cares about cares about cares about the country it comes from a place of care about the country even though we'll even though you know will disagree about that I'm not going to cater to anybody actually speaking of which to bring it our first topic of vice president that would be when when I was talking about alignment with Trump if he asked me to be vice president we'd have to have a sit down conversation about are you actually are we serious about shutting down these agencies because if so I'm I don't think anybody's going to do that and get that done better than me if part of the goal is it's a little bit you know not the direction we want to go but we want to point some you know figure heads on top of different agencies to go try to reform it that's cool but that's that's there's other ways to for me to drive change in this country and I will wish you well and be as supportive as I can but that's not how I'm going to drive change so when I was talking about even alignment early on like you know I if we got serious and this was actually a role to get in and For Better or Worse left or right gut the bureaucracy for the long run and that's something that we're serious about getting done I intend to do that as president and I think that it does take a president to really do it but I would I did as Vice even the word bureaucracy I think people know but can't Define and I'm not trying to be one of these managerial class idiots who's like these people are to stup no I I don't think I just think they hear the word like yeah that's an annoying thing I think it's like when there's a lot of stuff in the middle McKing up and making it harder to get done or they're like oh yeah there's some bureaucratic which is why my renovation is going so long or what but they don't exactly know and I think it's really the main ethos of what you've been saying is there is an interruption between what the people want yes and the people that should be executing an interruption in accountability absolutely and Interruption is there yep and sometime sometimes that's an outside force that's a FBI that's a CIA sometimes it's who would be interrupting on the who would be interrupting like for example using Nikki like people are using these politicians and then forcing think it's the military industrial complex I think it's real okay so Ron so and even the people with the Pentagon frankly I mean it's one it's one revolving door class oh you trying to get killed I hope not I hope not hope everybody I hope you saw the video of the guy telling him be careful right yeah we uh we don't want I don't want to go there right now go there it's very viral that's the only reason very viral so I mean it's on it's on the internet let's let's keep talking ideas for a second while we have you for a second so and he doesn't mean today we're uh we we we've taken the steps to protect ourselves and you know I God is the ultimate protection and you know and you got a lot of them and we got to do we got to do our own job that's funny just hit it one time no but could Iowa did that mention that you think people didn't trust you that you would actually do it do you think not even that I would it was it wasn't even that it was just at a more guttural level of like I don't know this guy like he I'm just processing a lot of like what I've heard is just like I didn't know who he was and now he's telling me all these things that I like to hear but he talks kind of fast and he went to the Elite institutions and he's a little different in a lot of ways and young and Hindu and you got the whole it's not one of those things but the whole package it's just like I don't yeah who the are you yeah and in fact I think that to come full I mean this is really in the in maybe the the you know darker corners of the internet kind of thing but I think there are people who then look and say wait is is he really the plan you know right like and and it's sad that you have a Republican party today that's so disconnected with its own B because the Republican party has been taken over by a managerial class of its own the Ron McDaniels if you all don't know who that person is all the better off for you but she's the chairwoman of the RNC right now ah who despises me and you know would rather me not have run for president because I'm calling out a lot of the corruption in the Republican party she had a 3X pay raise over the same period where the Republican Party lost five elections and much of the funds were being spent on her hair salons or something like this really but how's it hair I I mean I'm I I'll plead the fifth on that but but the but it's not my not my place to say but but the point is it's not the right expenditure right right and so and so anyway the the whole the whole game is okay this guy is coming in and it sounds so much like what I've been wanting yet we live in such a sad state of the Republican party that if you actually get somebody who's saying what the many in the the primary base of the Republican electorate and Beyond want it's like wait wait a minute that sounds so right that I'm suspicious of it but they did get that person and he didn't do it Trump ran on I'm got in office and what I said is he he rolled over that log and we saw what crawled out and give him credit for exposing it and my hoping is I'm bringing the pesticide but I but I would argue that there was a familiarity with Trump decades there was longstanding familiarity ex whereas like and even like with Obama I'm looking at like cuz obviously you know I'm sure people people have liken due to Obama right in certain ways charismatic good speaker like young big feet so basically you have this situation where people go people go I I trust Obama and I'll tell you why I think they saw him within government first and he was barely in there he gave that great speech at that like DNC the DN he did yeah he did this amazing speech but the Safety and Security was he existed within politics which even if people are disillusioned by it they still Trust they're like oh he must have been vetted by something you go eat something in a grocery organizer to Senator doesn't matter exactly you're like okay well the water's probably good here because the FDA is going to make sure it's good and you came completely outside with no awareness or I'm not complaining at all I'm just saying like diagnosing speak where we were speaking to it and then immediately if there's somebody who's compelling that we don't know about very wealthy like you have money but we don't know you got money MH I don't like that at all yeah like where the you get your money from you know what I mean like there all these questions like this guy's smart he's sharp he's got good teeth he's got hundreds of millions of dollars and I don't know about him and the funny thing is so in the early stage of the race like I did something no politician certainly nobody who's made serious wealth beforeand I released 20 years of tax returns because like there people like this is stupid don't do that they're all out there they're published people can just look at it 20 years worth I was 18 years old that was a shot and and I've said you know I would I believe anybody who and if I was elected president I would dest all my Holdings and everything else so in some ways I'm we've aspired certainly to live by the principles that I want to see in somebody who we put in the office but it's a sad enough state of our current state of affairs that that itself I think was contributed to everything else being different to a trust deficit and I'm fine with that maybe I'll do this again in a few years I don't know well that's that's question I do I do know but definitely think so yeah yeah absolutely we see we'll see where the country is is the honest good answer trust deficit also potentially added and this is why I'm asking you why run either party why not run independent if you want to win you can't win as independent right now is polling crazy he's not going to go anywhere near winning he might have an influence on the election and if you it depends on what your goal is right if your goal is to change the conversation in the country boom there's that that's actually proba better way to do that's there's there's there's a I will say if you want to change the conversation of the country you are better off doing it as an independent I got follow than as a Republican or Dem you're very quick to say you can't win running as an independent do you think you can beat Trump in a primary cuz nobody I didn't I didn't succeed in it so so so there you go I went from you know most people started 0.0% stayed 0.0% I ended at 8% in the race and we peaked 12 but yeah you know what was it 7.8 round 7.8 yeah that's fine but we gone through New Hampshire man had we gone through New Hampshire I you against lower than him I'm I'm lower than him I'm hating I wanted I wanted I think if you at the very least if you ran independent you could have made some serious waves you could have made some serious waves I think you could have been we would have won the election though I believe that I was going to be I I ran with the conviction that I was going to be the next president all right guys let's take a break for a second cuz y'all stink listen just be honest you smell bad smell your armpits right now take a moment take a whiff take a breath 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with any purchase of three bars just go to drsquatch.com flagrant to receive this buy three get three offer that is D RSQ ach.com flagrant you buy three soaps you get three free it's time to get all the daily routine Essentials you'll need to start feeling good and smelling like a man today now let's get back to this I've never sat down with someone who ran for president how how does how do you do that how literally run for like who do you call like when we decided that's what I did so I I called like give me and I you know my wife and I so you and your wife have a conversation because couple conversations over a month yeah we a moning contest too like you're going to get run through the mud like literally your wife your family they're going to go after everybody so you got to ask I'm sure like for their blessing bare minimum yes that was that was the the one my kids are too young to be able to process it but the one person that has a veto is my my wife and she was like I'm I'm down she was initially like are we sure we can't do this later in life because the kids are young or the kids are young we and also we've just kind of hit a place we had just kind of hit a place where yeah know I mean I was building a company for a long time we had finally that's that's its own slog she had been through residency she was a surgical resident actually did her training in New York all that stuff finished her fellowship and she's got a great academic post we had just had our second son we were at the place where it's like okay like this is feels like a destination we've been working to for a long time we're going to just and we're just going and now we're just going to mix it up yeah exactly and are we going to like I think her first reaction was like you know she's she's biased she's married to me but you know I believe You' be a good leader for this country I can we do this later and then we talked through it and I think we both convinced ourselves into why it had to be now with the sense of urgency when do you tell her that you're going to spend your own money because there's care about that she doesn't care about that she does not care she's she's not she's not a this she's not how much money you got she really doesn't she really 50 mil what the 950 mil you oh are you a bill do you got the be on a given day depends on the day really the Mark's doing on a given day not fire answer a border line Wikipedia was like 9 or 9987 or something try to pull it I'd rather I mean think to be flying like right under the rad we we giving away okay so you got the be you've built the businesses there's nothing left to over there you got not like one of the boy lower so so you've done everything you need to do in the business sector okay is there I'm sure I'm sure you have ambition to make sure the country reaches its full potential or restored to its full potential just as an American you have pride I'm sure you have that I'm not trying to take anything away from that is there a part of you that just as a man is like I want a passion I want something to do like what makes somebody who has all that money yeah I have I mean it's I put yourself through that hard peopley my wife could probably give you a better answer about me than I give you about me but you know I think that I think that it's there's there's a book by Victor Frankle I don't know if you've read it's called man search for meaning I read it in high school you familiar with it I went to St Xavier in Cincinnati and it was it sort of sort of spiritual book and anyway I think I think all of us have an innate hunger for purpose right to be to feel like what we're doing here in the short time that we're given is Meaningful yeah and I think that each of us also has our own unique god-given gifts yeah and I think the true source of satisfaction is matching at least for me and I don't my sense is it's probably true for most people is matching what your unique god-given gifts are to your sense of purpose the world and if you can match those two things an exciting thing that's much more that that that is that is sort of true self-actualization that is that is true Liberation more than whether it's a bigger case b or a lower case b and so for me that match felt like it was in leading this country and I and and weird as it sounded I most people say was ter I was I was pretty convinced we were going to succeeded this like when we're setting out but but even at like 0.0 nobody I I I I thought we're it's not like we're going to go and see where this goes I thought that this is going to end with I think I have the right Vision I I have deep conviction in it I believe that most people in this country if they don't see it today can be made to see that and ended up getting 8% rounded up you know and so and so there there were some structural reasons for that this time around but I think that nonetheless that was what motivated me you ask you're asking a question about the politics or the analysis of it but what what compelled me that's what I felt is is the unique was it exciting Confluence yes did you love every single day I love most days not every single day right but I loved most what were unexpected challenges of the campaign that you didn't see yeah what was the I mean I'm going to sound so it's going to sound so stupid when I say it because it's like should have been obvious the first time for everything no it is like I mean the influence of Mega Money on politics break it down when you first felt it when when when I understood the dynamic of dealing with mega donors actually it's sort of disgusting actually so I spent 30 million it's a lot of it's a lot of our million your close to 30 yeah yeah right right about he could do that 29.5 or something but you know something like that uh 30 million and and to lose yes the man I know man you're really really take the Delta between your net worth and our n but you know it's it's it's uh I mean at a certain point like what's you write that off there got to be something no no write off no write off so you spend that 30 yeah just out the door not coming back and never coming back at all yeah and your wife how did you train her to be like she just doesn't she just she's just not into she's not that into like stuff actually she's also a doctor on she not surge she she the thing is the thing is she's I mean the thing is actually many of the procedures she does such broken my wife was like why 30 if I spent $30 million I order double though I was brn you got a tomahawk okay go so anyway I think that yeah I mean we don't you know that's our sense of that for me it was a sense of purpose is what I would say it's like I believe God's given me unique gifts in this category to use them I believe that there's a purpose that needs to be fulfilled and I am I'm here to fulfill and that's what gave me my sense of deep satisfaction about this and she was super supportive of it largely because she's doing the same thing like I think actually the last time we had a conversation like that was in Reverse believe it or not was when so our first son carthic was born in I talked about this in actually you may not have gotten to that part yet back to school after their kids she doesn't go back to school she's in residency so she's finishing her residency here at Cornell that's in the last chapter I forgot in in U Cornell Columbia here she's an earos throat surgeon but she specializes in Throne surgery okay so she's an airway surgeon and he's born in February of 2020 which is an interesting time to be born in New York he was born in February 23rd 2020 and that was like literally the week after that is when that first wave and and you know people went Co policy crazy in this country in the next couple of years but that first wave in New York City I don't know if you guys were here that that was not a joke yeah and and and the hospitals were super overfilled so she had just had an emergency C-section at Columbia on February 23rd 2020 and yet she's an airway surgeon okay F and so they're short staffed at the hospital they've got patients piling up every operating room is converted into an ICU and there's literally a lot of older people included like going to die unless there's people who are able to help them with the skill set she's been given and she's very good at what she does and so in some sense of the Union of our god-given skills in our sense of purpose for her that was March of 2020 so a little over three weeks in after emergency section she could take you know six months off if she wants to for for Maternity at least six weeks she goes back so she's she's in the operating room less than four weeks after given emergency Seas section and back then nobody good stuff nobody knew nobody knew what this was back then have you told people this not a lot of people too late this is good stuff move over Michelle Obama so I'm a biotech CEO I'm CE of Roy vent here we don't care don't forget so I brought that up because I had been traveling the whole prior year and so she had to have when when I talked about the sit down conversation I had with her she had the sit down conversation with me is is like listen I have to go do this that's amazing we have a son he's 3 weeks old we don't know what's going to happen if I'm doing open Airway surgery and we don't know what this virus is I need you it wasn't like it wasn't really a question it was sort of like I need you I need you to step up and do this wow so so I took I took our little man we had already we already knew we were going to settle back in Ohio we had moved to Ohio the like late the year before she was finishing up her residency here and happened to give birth here because that's where the doctor was so I took him and I spent I was single father for what was going to be a few weeks but then you know she ended up predictably you know whatever she she got sick nobody knew what it was it wasn't a big deal her father also got sick he was also surgeon and was taking care of patients he ended up in the ICU she's there with a couple weeks and she continues to do Airway surgery open Airway surgery for people who were sick ended up being about two months where I'm playing solo single father of our what was our 1 month to three-month-old son during those period of time and I think it still hurts a PVA today that she missed those those two months amazing example for your son like it's when he grows up he'll he'll grow to appreciate it she she's shipping him breast milk you know during that period yeah yeah goodness absolutely but we but for us that was our conviction that she has a skill set God put her here to do it she did her job and did her Duty and so for me when we whatever two and a half or three years later I had a similar it it felt like the same conversation in reverse the nation is sick and and she was didn't take didn't take a beat other than to say are you sure we can't do this later we talked through that and she says great Wow Let's go question how does that whole thing in influence the way you view covid policies how we handled everything how did that experience shape your views there's is there some interesting things that happened I mean at that time I remember one of the most remarkable things was they were sending out mass emails to the people who are in the medical profession including you know in her workplace and everything else saying don't wear masks they're scaring people and they're uh and whatever only for a few months later to then reverse and say there's a policy so it was just people saying things with a level of certainty that they just didn't have so what in that early stage of that pandemic do we know we didn't know much we knew and so we had to make decisions in the face of uncertainty we took the facts we had it looked even in that early phase like even if a porva did get this it looked like she was going to be fine right and it was the right thing for her to do we didn't know how it would affect infants we separated so that we were able to keep the infant away but my takeaway was at least if we as a government were able to I'm not saying I don't mean to sound self-important in this way but more as a lesson learned in the way that maybe we handled it as a family if you have government leaders that say and are just honest about the fact here's what we know here here's what we don't know here's the best decision we're making in the face of information that's available and here's why I think we would have been a lot better off rather than the fake huis of saying that we pretend to know more than we do here's how we keep you safe yes even though we don't know come from is it like I think it comes from a belief that that's what the people need to see the same it's kind of some of the same mentalities people need to see fortitude strength and is the justification to avoid the chaos that would ensue if people felt that anxiety of uncertainty I think it's a fear of chaos I think it's a fear of chaos they justify back gone we we don't want people to feel anxious we don't want them to feel like they we want them to believe we know what's going on because then they can be calm while we fig yeah and and then they will they will be more likely to listen to what we need them to do when we tell them I think it's actually the opposite I think I think they misread human some of human nature I think actually if you just tell somebody just tell the truth right here's here's the truth there's A's here's what we know here's what we don't know here's just the truth we're not hiding it from you yeah but you there's a delicate way that you can deliver that truth that isn't a lie but also doesn't go yo we don't know what the going on there is a version of it which is we still need time to accurately decide what is the best way to handle even if it's not relevant on the piece of how you address it this is what actually drove the lies about the origination in China worries about racism in the United States or whatever because there was you know anti-asian attacks in I think just the right answer is we don't know for sure but it sure looks like it came from a lab in China where we were funding research that we intended to use to prevent a pandemic but things might have gone a little wrong and we created one yeah and so we as in America you think America created it I think I think we the yeah I think there's there's Fu up the stitching and yeah yeah I mean someone shut the door yeah I mean I think I think there's still unanswered questions I think there's still unanswered questions about what actually went down there that's that's uh I I I think we should have the I think we deserve the answers to that question and should hold the Bad actors accountable or else we can expect even worse in the future again without accountability you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes at a larger scale in the future that's what I believe but anyway I think that that would be one of my lessons is honesty Free Speech matters most not in ordinary times but in supposedly emergency times if you had been allowed to debate the lockdowns I don't think we would have locked down the schools I don't think we would have locked down the cities for nearly as long as did if You' been allowed to debate the merits of the vaccine I don't think we would have had vaccine mandates in this country yeah I think that autonomy is Paramount in the end I think you should be able to take something even if the FDA hasn't approved it I think you shouldn't have to take something just because the FDA has approved it but I think there's a lot there's a lot of there's a lot of learnings but I think that the irony the ultimate tragedy in this managerial conceit this hubris is that it'd be one thing if you actually could have pulled it off that you actually did earn the trust even if it was based on a lie but the irony is we're you're you're in the worst of all worlds where you actually have bred greater mistrust through the act of lying itself so it loses not just on philosophical terms which is what moves me but even on the terms of its own Effectiveness actually right and so I think that that's something that for me is one of the great lessons the reason people don't trust the government is actually because the government doesn't trust the people and like in any relationship trust is a two-way relationship right in a marriage in a friendship in a work relation in a boss in a CEO employee relationship trust is a two-way relationship and I think the government is in a relationship with its people we as Citizens are in a relationship with one another and I think that that trust is a two-way relationship that has been today squandered in both directions and I think that if we think about you know ways to heal this country two two steps would I think go a long way towards uniting and healing this country is if somebody got in the government say a US president it's what I intended to do if we got in there you know apparently that's not meant to be this time but what I hoped to do is to just rip the court off you know whatever take the bandaid off on a lot of the areas where at least in the last 20 years you can just start with Last 5 Years 20 years might be too far back Last 5 Years where there's been understandable public suspicion of what what we've been told and just to say hey here's what we know I me pick your favorite topic I mean the fringy ones uaps whatever it is here's what we know and here's we disclosure and and and here's where we lied to you like be AGN here's where we lied and I say we because even if it wasn't me if you're the president you own what came before you you represent that here's where we lied to you here's why we got here's why we lied to you I think the why is important too here's why we lied to you and here's how we're going to ensure that never happens again and if somebody in the government ideally the president steps up and does that that's step one step two is somebody in the media doesn't have to be everybody somebody could be CNN could be MSNBC could be Fox could be pick your favorite one but somebody steps up and says okay here's where we were wrong you pick your favorite one hunb laptop Co origin Nashville transgender shooter Manifesto so you know January 6 go go straight down the list whatever it is here's where we lied to you here's why we lied to you here's where we were wrong and here's the changes we're making to ensure that doesn't happen again and to acknowledge that whatever the next thing is you're probably not going to trust me because you don't have a reason to but give us a little bit of time and I think we're going to earn your trust back and look Their audience in the eye and tell them that those two things happen one from the White House rose garden and one from any mainstream trust once trusted anchor looking Their audience in the eye and saying it those two things happen we are well on our way to healing and reuniting this country actually it's not it's not that hard actually there's it's not that hard real quick there's a uh yeah I feel like there's a an extreme dip in American Pride oh yeah and and and after talking to you it makes sense because how can you be proud of a government that does not represent you in a country run by people doesn't trust you that do not trust you right so the relationship how can you trust somebody who doesn't trust you of course not so yeah because I one of the questions I had for you I was like how do we reins still the American Pride and there's a buddy of mine named Ben is a really smart guy he's like you know I'm proud of me and baric and I was like why and he's like this is the best version of myself that's what America has given to me the opportunity to be the greatest version of myself I don't think there's another country in the world where I could be the best version of myself now this is a country that put his grandparents or was it great grandparents grandar in the interment camps right so but he still is like the ideals of this country sometimes we get off yep sometimes we wiggle and I think this is kind of what you've been speaking to but the ideals are there and I think that that's something we can all have pride in when we get those rights we are the best version of ourselves yes we are matter who the we are I saw my mom get her citizenship and it was like really touching I got like emotional ad I saw all these people that emotional experience I wish people could go see the excitement that is there when these people are realizing this dream because it is a dream and yeah maybe they're looking at America in the best possible way maybe looking at those ideals maybe looking at that what that Constitution represents but if this managerial class class who is not necessarily doing it in with nefarious intent and that's a really important benevent conceit there it is so if they are either removed or moved out of the way or there is a way to to execute it where they have utility but not disruption I think that so I'm pretty sparse and and libertarian in my tendency to believe that the way to do this is just through publicly accountable elected officials actually and we'll get a better class of public elected official once that actually becomes clear to everybody how important that is versus if that's unimportant then you get the get the C team that you're getting right now yeah but that's exactly right this is a step to uniting this country it's also part of even you think about the elections meaning something and this is the more philosophical underpinning of why I favor so I favor this because I think it quells any of the concern about election Integrity but there's a deeper element to this too of our elections meaning something that Civic ritual that your mother and you as a family sounds like went through I favor that's why I favor single day voting on Election Day make it a national holiday and do it with the way the Iowa caucus is done with paper ballot and government issued idid there's the election Integrity concerns I favor making English the sole sole language that appears on a ballot many people find that controversial but we are a nation founded on ideals but who are we if we can't even communicate those ideals with one another right I think that one of the things that's dividing this country to a Breaking Point is just we're innate as human beings we distrust one another when people are speaking a language you don't understand as AO they could speak that language but if you don't share that language in common at least on the day that you're expressing the Civic ritual and by the way all goes to the concerns about election Integrity anyway and one of the things I've said in leading the Republican party is if we get single day voting on Election Day as a national holiday with paper ballots government ID and English is the sole language on a ballot I will pledge we and we have to be we're just done complaining about election Integrity or results or whatever and we move the country forward but we do it with the Civic ritual that gives us a sense of appreciation of that set of ideals that the country was founded on are we perfect no we're not have we ever been perfect no we're not we're going to keep up yes cuz we are not Gods yes right We're a nation here in the plural so so we we are men not God and we are still a nation founded on ideals and so those two things by definition it's like it's like a math equation it's like an axiomatic you have the axioms and the coraly that those two things are the axioms that we are we are Fallen human beings not God mhm and that we are still founded on a set of ideals that we aspire to then the necessary logical consequence of that is that we will always fall short of our ideals but let me Aspire but aspire to if you take away my ability to Aspire by having this managerial class that's going to dictate exactly what I can do now you're G you're taking away my let and fail yeah sooner than you have me optically succeed yeah that's exactly right it is optic suc success it's the illusion because that's how they get the pat on the back look what these people did I told you I was right look how good I am at managing them I appreciate you having what seems like to me reflecting a a deep understanding of my worldview in a short amount of time yeah because actually this I think I think what you to be explained in this way and that's why like deep state is just it's such a buzzword that people hear and they have all these ideas wrapped around it that might not actually be what you're saying even if they mean the same thing I think when people think of the D state they're like Nancy Pelosi's in a room and she's saying hey FBI go do this and let's bomb that and intentions exactly whereas managerial to just the slow motion reality is far more boring in nature actually the reality of the reality of what we perceive as evil intent is always far more boring MH always if I look at you as just a CEO who would be elected president and remove of the bureaucracy that's a very different thing than a guy who's going to tackle the Deep state that sounds so abstract if I look at you was like oh this is a CEO who built he's a billionaire lowercase be uppercase be don't matter off of this thing and he's going to help the United States government run more efficiently and in our best interests that's a what was up with the mega donors you were saying I was just I was just going to say that yeah we we I mean so there it's sort of this Dynamic where there's like a there's like a courtship and an expectation that you supplicate yourself that I was just very bad at because I couldn't put my heart into it at any point in time and so you know if there's a next time and I didn't really do much of it this time an example of it oh yeah I mean I think like the uh name would be great the handwritten notes the the ability the idea that people believe that you got to fly to where they are to see them to some donor retreat they summoned every candidate actually by the end of it they they didn't summon me but they summoned the disantis and Haley and and and Scott campaigns to figure out how there was going to be a discussion about who was actually going to take on Trump it's it's sort of who are they who are like the Coke brothers a lot of wealthy people in this in in the Republican frankly in both parties Peter teal no he he was he didn't play this time he didn't play this time but but he's always involved right I think this time he wasn't I like that verage he didn't play this time it is a game verbage it's a game so who's one of the people that was playc we you could you could you could you know look at look at actually one of the most interesting twists right now one of the most interesting twists is you know who some of the biggest donors because it shows you how bipartisan this is you know some the biggest donors to Nikki Haley include the very people who have been actually funding to keep Donald Trump off the ballot in from a from a leftwing perspective so like the like Reed Hoffman is one such person and the thing he's a found of LinkedIn which by the way censored me early in this campaign for making factual statements about climate change and then they said have violated their policies on hate speech misinformation and violence when we challenged them on what was inaccurate about it after we I I you shared it with uh we just shared our email exchanges with the New York Post which PR Microsoft then comes out and says oh no no your account was locked in error uh which is funny it makes s like a technical glitch that's just a funny side story but but this is the the type of stuff that happens behind the scenes AB guy's funing Nikki Haley in an attempt to do what exactly I just to have her beat Donald Trump in the primary I think the idea would be she's much more beatable in a general election no I don't think that's the idea at all actually I think the idea is she's actually going to be more effective than Biden at advaning certain of the agendas actually does and the Democratic brand is kind of tarnished right now and if they get Biden he's started to lose his use as the leader of the of of of their Pawn on the chess board but then they got this thing called a Comm Harris problem yes and so so what's one better way to do that is you know the Democratic party's brand is a little tarnished we get to have the illusion of nonpartisan put in the put in somebody else we control and just all Nikki needs is to be cut in on the rake a little bit right I mean she left she left the government she was in debt and she quickly you know 8 million bucks off of how paid speeches military Contracting firm tell me tell me how these politicians become millionaires yeah mostly getting paid uh you know s make it sound really nefarious under the table but it's basically under the table so there are under the table deals made it's not but they're actually hiding many of them are just hiding in plain sight so so it's my belief that if you have done favors for Boeing to the tune of 900 million or nine figure sums of money hundreds of millions of dollars in the state of South Carolina showering on Boeing that it would be inappropriate and undesirable for you to take as one of your first paid seats after you leave government to sit on Boeing's board where they have a nice warm seat waiting for you that's exactly what Nika does or you I think it would be inappropriate if you're representing the us at the United Nations and you abruptly step off as your family is wallowing in debt for you to be able to start a military Contracting firm that exploits your connections at the UN to advocate for policies that allow military Contracting firm to make more money which is indeed those that are hawkish or Pro more policies that's exactly what she does or give paid speeches to foreign actors without disclosing what those speeches are but it's not just Nikki Haley I mean I think if you're Vice President of the United States I don't think your son should be sitting on the board of a Ukrainian company collecting $5 million when he doesn't have the first qualification to do it yeah especially if you then become the president and Fork over $200 billion of money to Ukraine if you're Elizabeth Warren nobody has any idea everybody knows what her salary is yeah her and her husbands included and you know few hundred, a year they got expenses and suddenly her net worth is disclosed to be $68 million that math doesn't add up that math does not add up and it's just across the board in both parties this is how it works Y and so my own views if you're in Congress you shouldn't be allowed to trade individual stocks neither should any of the bureaucrats or or your husband yeah in your orbit yeah absolutely I don't think you should be allowed to Lobby the government for at least at least 10 years I mean maybe if you really aspired to a life career as a lobbyist at least wait till 10 years exp explain how that happens so basically they leave government and then they get paid by these lob by by industry to represent them to go after their own to go to get open the doors to their own prior colleagues right I don't think that if you've done special favors for a company like showering hundreds of millions of dollars on them you should be able to join the board of that company yeah which again would create maybe the illusion that you knew that they were going to do that for you at the time you were showering $100 million what about what about the speeches or if you're the regulator if you're at the FDA I don't think you should be able to join the board of pharmaceutical company afterwards this this is R happens all the time that makes sense but I feel like one version cuz I was looking into this a little bit I kind of want to do a piece on this but the the way that a lot of them make their money after they're in government is through these speeches so do you think somebody really wanted to pay Seven figures to hear Nikki Haley speak forget Nikki Haley Hillary Clinton this is one of the most boring individuals you're talking about half a million dollar some cases some cases we're talking seven figure at least in Nikki one of these cases seven figur but we know the entire country doesn't like hearing her talk oh yeah yeah right so so it's maybe it's not for the talk right that's the whole point that's right right that's that's that's the whole point and is that their way of scratching the backs of course it is it's one of the tools it's it's not the only tool said but it's basically like okay you do this for us and then when you're done running when you're out of office we have seven speeches lined up give your same stupid speech nobody and again it's like a game theoretic thing where I don't think in most cases that's verb yeah just you understand that's how the game is played yeah and and it just And The Beat Goes On okay what about what about uh Kushner getting that two billion dollar deal from NBS what deal is that in terms of investing in a fund he has he he has a track record as investor I don't know what went down but apparently the Saudi fund I mean people have criticized people I don't know what he's doing yeah my view is just across the board yeah across the board yeah certainly for people in Congress or the US Senate yeah let's just start with that cuz these are the people who should be accountable to the people it seems like an absolute no-brainer now here's the concern if and this is an ethical dilemma of course because what I'm going to suggest you could argue is unethical but if you cannot get rich in politics Will the smart people not want to enter politics so here's what I would say is I think the term limits are good I think you should get in there and get out which is what it used to be that's the idea I want I want eight years so so if I can't work for the people for more than eight years as their president I don't want the people reporting into me to generally work for there for more than eight years either get in get out three terms as the limit for congress two terms as limit for the Senate and I think that I would sooner have a discussion about increasing the salary I don't think somebody should be forced to be poor over or or have or even have the limit where they send their kids to school but I would rather that just that just tell us what it is in the open rather than having to do the underhand deal with well they didn't pay me enough anyway I'm just going to do it this way and so I think think that's a reasonable thing to do now term limits most of these people wouldn't vote for term limits here's my solution on that is it's it's it's shameful but it would work it would work in a heartbeat if I was President we would have gotten this done is grandfather in the people make that the final deal okay we got it all lined up you don't want to vote for it we'll grandfather you in meaning you can you you're not subject to term limits the guy who comes after you next and they would do it in a heartbeat about it's a wildly popular policy right and so and the same thing with the insider trading bands most congressmen hate it when I talk about banning trading of individual for you have to say that otherwise they would never pass it so we so we got the deal lined up and we'll just say out get virt signal yeah but but you can't but you can't make it nakedly self-interested you would say out of out of U out of respect for the continuation of Prior Norms this will begin on a date certain in the year 2030 or whatever right but that's like that's kind of how it would have to go actually right and so and and they would do it because it's a wildly popular Poli let's assume all these things happen and it works who plots the long-term course of America if people are getting elected or reelected every 2 six 4 years the long-term cour like who is making deals that are going to impact our great grandchildren's Futures because that's an important I think that with this setup and the term limits etal for so so so this I mean that's this is the question right and I think it's it's the best argument for it's the best argument for the thing that I'm against that that's because I think that you will then select for the kind of leader that is viewing it as a temporary form of public service and the job of that leader is to think on the time scales of History rather than the time scales of tomorrow if they're doing their job right and it puts accountability back on the people to elect such a person back to what Thomas Jefferson said the people elect the government that they deserve okay so break this down to me really quickly you will you think that because the the country is now truly in the hands of the government that are selected and not in this managerial class that all of a sudden their viewpoints for the country will then transform it should the people should elect such people and if not we got what we deserved just like in your personal financial life or that we have make we have to live with that that's for better or worse that was the that's what what 1776 was fought for now as much as I might agree with this do you think that Americans like the Cozy security of a managing class maintaining the price of oil under four bucks a gallon and right now maybe we we are well I they want that risk in their life so here's here's the thing we live in right now is you're offering the best statement of that other side's view right now we live in the worst of all worlds where actually people are seeing how that has ruined their own class sucks they exactly so so the hard case presents itself when those come into conflict which is the philosophical case that's not where we are right now so I think that's what now makes for the right moment to tear the thing down anyway but I do think that in a in a psychological sense we have become a nation of sheep okay and and I think a nation of sheep is what breeds this managerial class of wolves actually and so I think you get what you deserve anyway it's a two just as trust is a two-way relationship we don't have trust One Direction or the other once you do adopt this nation of of sheep you know waking up two-legged higher mammals celebrating our diversity doing what our iPhones tell us to do on a given you know making our way across an American terrain yeah you you kind of get the government that feeds you and creates more of that in return and it's up to us to declare independence and so when I say things like the other night as I said we live in a 1776 moment that's what I mean it's our time to declare independence not just from the managerial class but even from within that inner prison within each of us too that has confined Us by the the tools of the managerial class including but not limited to the algorithmic of our of our Modern Life that's a whole separate discussion for another day but I think that we live in a moment where it's time for a a modern Declaration of Independence of the forces that have Shackled us on the exterior and the interior and those it's not a coincidence that those two things happen at the same time they actually go together and so I think each of us I mean we talked about this at a governmental level but I think each of us has an inner sheep and an inner lion and I think right now the inner sheep has is winning the day mostly at least across our general population level and it's partly because we've been lulled into that by having people the comfort of the fact that we're not accountable for our decisions but somebody else is and so might as well give in to my sheeplike Tendencies rather than my lionlike Tendencies yeah I mean it's good to phrase it like that because we all obviously want to be a lion but I think at the end of the day people really truly do want security and they're willing to sacrifice some freedom for security now I'm not saying that that's and right now we're getting Nei I think that's the most important thing it's right now practically speak You' sacrificed your security for this idea of freedom but you've actually had your freedom further restricted because now you're not represented any way at all so now you have nothing so nothing we still live in America greatest country but I hear but I hear what the trajectory we're on is a trajectory to nothing yeah is what I what I do believe so basically it's like it was a Fool's bet someone told you hey give me a little bit of that freedom or give me a little bit of your representation I'm going to give you all security and then you didn't get it so you were lied to yes which is what makes it an easy moment to drive the kind of change that I am right now where the philosophical and the Practical go hand and glove together it's not trade off anymore doesn't happen what do you think happens to America if we continue on the trajectory we're on what do you say happens in 20 30 years go I think we go the direction that most Nations through human history have which is to be one other another ordinary nation in human history where where the people couldn't be trusted and we we sort of elegant Decay into mediocrity much like what we saw in Western Europe over the course of the last couple centuries since the US was formed probably in a tighter time frame we need to build some more fountains though I think our own culture of Excellence has gone to China and I think they're in autocratic form will have a new epitom of the managerial class well they they are but they're the best version of it because they're benevolent manager no because that's because it's sort of the nature of the founding of the modern State whereas in some ways We're a nation we're like betraying our true Essence right and so so so we're not even like good at doing this managerial class thing right but so so I think that's actually what's going on is like we're this bastardized mutated form of like not even the thing that we are at our core so you could look at this from Mars and say that oh is is is is the American model better is the Chinese model and it's like when On's up didn't have someone some Martian might say that that one is you know these are two different models yeah but at least one model is being itself so right the Communist Chinese government was the one that maong said into motion right but we're not the one that George Washington s into motion right and so and so so it's in some ways the worst of all worlds is it's a it's a betrayal of what the thing actually was yeah because that Martian can't actually look at what we're supposed to be yeah and make that judgment but but couldn't you say that like the Chinese government or a lot of these governments even like Russia you can look at Turkey aren't they a reflection of American influence in a way some of them are where it's like so we basically tell the world yo let your people vote and then we get in there like all right we we will influence this election we got you so we're not giving away potential true democracy so they kind of need an that get you more practical I'm not being I'm not being nuanced with my geopolitical take here but I guess what I'm trying to say is that they in order to maintain power or that Manago class or whatever it is so that they can actually compete with America they need to have one group or they believe they need to have one group in charge it's ultimate I do not trust the people in a lot of ways yeah that being said I don't know I like betting on us I like betting on I like betting on us and I'm betting on us with with all I have in my life my money and my effort and my you know and and our that that's what we're doing that's that BR me I'm make I'm trying to make the ultimate why it take you so long to be so maybe this is the issue it's like guys like you who are smart thoughtful well- read and actually really learn the topics instead of learning the bud buzzwords and like spitting them out there uh which is great when you called out Nikki Haley she couldn't even name the three provinces that she wants us to fight for and then she could I mean it was just a perfect example of she's not even Nuance on this issue at all but what you have to go make a billion dollars in finance before you can go be in politics now if you're in Turkey you're working from for Eran you're probably making 10 billion doll because he's your boy but he's got you on his hip like this guy's good and we need to work I'm not saying that we should adopt that system at all that being said how do we get more people that are like you to stop speculating and start working for the government so I'll tell you what when I graduated from college right so I was in high school when the when the planes hit the Twin Towers I was in Cincinnati a lot of my peers when they graduated from college or didn't even graduate from college went and served this country in the military I I grew up in Cincinnati my dad was faing layoffs of the GE plant in Evendale when Jack Welch was a CEO of GE SL about 2/3 of the two-third of the people in the plant where he worked he had to go to night school to keep job security for me when I graduated from college Bill Gates gave the commencement address at Harvard actually when I was graduating in 2007 and I was really looking forward this is the wealthiest man in the world at that time I'm excited all right tell us how it's done and what we get is this like pathetic prean speech about the importance of giving back and I'm like how the hell does one get the things give back you know exactly exactly you skipped that part of the speech and I listened carefully and you didn't tell me but you know I was I was unapologetically going to say all right I'm going to do it honestly going to do it the right way through hard work and hopefully creating valuable things but I'm in this to get ahead as a capitalist yeah and I don't and I don't regret that decision but I think that there's a side to each of us that is also hungry to be part of something bigger than ourselves so in each of us as an American I think is is the capitalist but is the citizen too oh of course and so as long as I think we create the space for us to have this gets super practical but like I'd be the advice I'd give young people is don't think of your career as a like one thing think of it as like a story book with a bunch of different chapters in it and I think if we are sort of think about the structure of life in that sense as opposed to right now there's three chapters in life one is education then there's career then there's retirement actually one of the companies as I found it it's actually doing pretty well it's in New York City it's not far from here it's actually doing really well it's called chapter it was about that third chapter in life and it ended up becoming getting into the you know Medicare Plan selection space me started with a grand vision of redefining the third chapter but end up getting very practical and the company's doing well I've always had an interest in sort of redefining that three chapter model and I think that that will in some ways as a cultural norm help kind of make more normal the fact that you take eight years to go serve your country even if not in the front lines in Afghanistan in the front lines of taking on a bureaucracy and part of the my best way to do that to tell you man is through example I mean that's why I ran for president with the hope and expectation of being successful and you know if that's what the people of this country want and that's what you know God's plan is maybe I'll do that in the future but I think that that's probably one of the best ways to actually do it by sh that it can be done it doesn't seem like you cut off your Capital turned off your capitalist part or closed the capitalist chapter whatever but at what point were you like cuz the thing you hear and maybe you have so much money don't even matter but you thing you hear a lot is you keep the the you number the number that's enough money just keeps going up and up and up I think it's an illusion it's an illusion at some point in time I think there could I think it was actually that 2020 year that did that for me it was kind of a wakeup call a lot of things happened carthic was born I told you the story about you know I mean that experience a porv and I went through for those few months was a wakeup call for me and then look at my son in the eye every day for those few months while she was on the front lines doing what she needed to do and then it was a few months after that two months after that that the whole George Floyd thing played out and the thing I talked about in woke Inc that you know in my own company there's weird stuff going on that I hadn't thought about in Cross Corporate America relating to this new ideology that for me the combination of those things happening in a in a very short period of time was kind of of my call to action MH and I think it probably organically takes everybody to have their own version of that to really authentically doing it as opposed to just doing it by rot but I also think that if we created a cultural norm of that and I think this is something you don't want instilled from on high you know woking to you haven't got to the end of the book but I play with the idea of mandatory service I when I say agree 95% of the things that are in there I I'm not I don't think that's actually the right answer answer because once you mandate it it loses the quality of actually being service but I do think that's at at least at the very least doing it through inspiration I think is something that is strictly positive and that's what I hoped to achieve as the next president I hope in some small measure we achieved that even through the campaign itself but I'm not done and so the answer to that question is important to me and I don't have the clear answer other than agreeing with you that it needs to happen in this country and you know the best way is you can't it's easy it's always easy to force other people to do something it's a lot harder to man up and step up and do it yourself and so instead of pointing it how can we get a country where other people do it maybe you just take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself to to maybe do what you demand of others and that's the last year was about for me and I hope with some reflection I Haven decided what I'm going to do next going to take some time on this one you don't get dealt a blank slate very often so I want to take take full advantage of that but whatever I do next hopefully will be guided by that same Spirit of wanting to practice what I preach a little bit and so whatever that is we'll see where it goes FC I am uh yeah I'm very I'm very happy we got to sit down with you man dude yeah appreciate it it's good to yeah it's good to use I think platforms like this where you get this long time to really explain yeah it's a tough game it's a tough game that politics this 30 second sound bites trying to get everything out but I'm really glad that you got to explain everything because I feel like I understand your ethos way better yes and I think I I see it through through those lenses so thank you very much guys give it up for Vic ramaswami future Vice President of the United States of America maybe pressent one day

Channel: FLAGRANT

Views: 1,455,916

Keywords: andrew schulz, andrew schultz, comedy, comedian, stand up, flagrant 2, sports, entertainment, pop culture, commentary, comedy club, near me, jokes, interviews, akaash singh, alexxmedia, alexx media, alex media, eddin, eddin media, Thankyoueddin

Id: ucuQxVICWzg

Length: 144min 18sec (8658 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 24 2024