United States confirms halt of shipment of bombs to Israel • FRANCE 24 English

Washington has hit Pauls on quote one shipment of high payloads Munitions to Israel us defense secretary Lloyd Austin confirming that proverbial shot across the bow in testimony before the US Senate so we we've been very clear Senator as you know from the very beginning that um that Israel shouldn't launch a a major attack in arafa without accounting for uh and protecting the civilians that are in that battle space uh and and again as we have uh assessed the situation uh we paused one shipment of high high uh uh payload uh Munitions um and uh and again I I think we've also been very clear about U the steps that we'd like to see uh uh Israel take to to account for and take care of those civilians before uh major combat uh takes place place we certainly would like to see no major combat take place in Rafa but uh but certainly our focus is on making sure that we protect the civilians and we again we've not made a final determination on how to proceed with the uh with that shipment uh and for more we're joined from uh Washington by Frank Lowenstein executive director of ABCO former US Special Envoy for Israeli Palestinian negotiations in the Obama Administration thanks for being with us thanks for having me and from Jerusalem correspondent Iris mler Iris uh that uh statement we just heard from Lloyd Austin I imagine it's Making Waves where you are it is Making Waves because uh I guess this Administration is taking the gloves off it's not speaking as we heard earlier in the day via uh a diplomatic official someone unnamed uh we heard John Kirby the Pentagon SP person saying no no we don't discuss arms shipments and certainly not one arms shipment later in the day we heard from an Israeli uh Defense Force spokesman and Daniel hagari who also talked up the great relationship uh the unprecedented cooperation and now we hear from Lloyd Austin in his you know himself speaking clearly and saying yes the US has paused Aid well Aid not even Aid military aid uh to Israel until what's happening in in Rafa is clear and and I think Washington is making it clear to uh Israel in a way you know it did previously with words all along there's been this exchange between Washington and Jerusalem reported uh in the American newspapers reported here where discussions were leading to the point of Israel saying we're ready to go in and Washington saying you haven't taken enough steps to protect civilians and and so now it's an action behind those words Israel hasn't taken enough steps to protect Palestinian civilians in the American point of view or from the American position and America wants that done before there's any as they put it major operation in Rafa because because uh 24 hours ago uh Israel was stating that uh this one battalion of tanks that had gone to shut the Rafa Crossing with Egypt was a limit incursion that's right and it is a limited incursion we're not seeing the kind of fighting we saw in kanun we're not yet yet seeing uh the kind of military we're not seeing troops inside Rafa proper we're seeing Israeli troops uh at the border post a theatrical you know all filmed going in shutting the border crossing but not anything more than that and I guess what Washington is saying is that's where we'd like to see it end thank you very much Frank Lowenstein the uh Biden Administration dialing up the heat and dialing up the heat over the last 24 hours why did uh Lloyd Austin um go public with all this well I think what you're seeing is real frustration from the Biden Administration with the Israelis uh that's now spilling over into the public I think in general what we'd most like to do is resolve these kind of disagreements with the Israelis privately but when they make clear that they intend to do exactly what we do not want them to do over our objections at that point we're we're forced to to make a bigger public story out of it and also to threaten to take action as your correspondent just suggested I don't think the Israelis care what we say at all anymore uh the only thing that they'll respond to is our action so this is the first step uh towards making clear to the Israelis that we're serious about this is this coming too soon or too late oh I think it's coming far too late personally uh um I also think it's important to understand the overall context here which is the United States is pushing very hard for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas and I think it's the position of our government uh that Hamas has come pretty far in terms of what what we think should be acceptable to the Israelis so we're trying to exert some leverage here not only on to get Israel not to go and dropa but also to get them to agree to a ceasefire agreement that the United States feels very strongly about and also that reflects President Biden's political considerations here at home and I think that's what you're seeing ly Austin testify to is there's a lot of discontent in the United States we've seen it in campus protests and whatnot but I think President Biden is is reacting to that as well so explain this to me Frank Lin because we know Joe Biden's been around the block he's been on in Washington for more than half a century he was in we all remember the time he was in Israel when he was vice president while he's in town uh Israel uh announces they're building new settlements uh so he knows about the way Benjamin Netanyahu operates why so why has he been so cautious you know I think he really has a deep and abiding personal uh affection for Israel and desire to be seen historically as having really stood by Israel at their time of greatest need that was important to him when we were working with him during the the Obama Administration the of President Biden even then when he was vice president was adamant that we stand by Israel almost no matter what so I think this is a matter of deep personal conviction to for him that being said they think the Israelis have finally pushed him far enough where he's willing to take harder action than he than he's really comfortable taking that's because I was gonna say but he knows who Benjamin Netanyahu is yeah he does and he keeps saying including yesterday that that he'll always defend Israel's Security even when he disagrees with prime minister Netanyahu so I I think the only reason why Biden has done this is because the word has leaked out now that that that Netanyahu wanted to do a full Rafa Invasion over the weekend in other words he was prepared to completely defy us both on the ceasefire and on the Rafa Invasion and I think that really got President Biden's attention he said BB is going to ignore us you know even though I I love Israel and I've had a longstanding relationship with him that that's a step too far so I think that's where you see him doing something that he's otherwise very uncomfortable doing I would also that secretary blinkin was supposed to make a certification today that that Israel is complying with International humanitarian law uh which is a requirement of all countries that receive Us weapons we delayed that certification today I think secretary blinkin is saying now they'll do it sometime in the next couple of days but that's also another indication to the Israelis that we're prepared to back up our words with actions if they don't change course a delayed certification uh one shipment delayed is this enough to basically change the course of a seven-month-old War uh probably not uh but we'll see how far the Israelis want to push it I think it hopefully what they'll do is realize that they have to listen to us if they want to continue to receive our weapons if they don't I think we really could be heading for a big Showdown with them where where we're cutting off weapons you know much more broadly than the one shipment we've stopped so far and and otherwise not protecting Israel at the UN and doing some of the other things we can do to put additional pressure on them so I know everybody's hoping to avoid that I think we'd really love to see a ceasefire in the next 24 to 48 hours and so I think all of this is in further of that for now anyway so the the Gaze then turns back to Cairo where there are ceasefire negotiations going on Frank Lowenstein Iris Macker uh earlier we spoke uh with and his was France 24s Delana dza spoke with a spokesperson for the Israeli government about uh those ceasefire negotiations let's take a listen my prime minister has been quite clear we will not agree to an agreement that says that there has to be a a permanent ceasefire which would leave Hamas in power which would enable Hamas to take over the Gaza Strip and ultimately would enable um Hamas to do what they want to do which is October 7th again and again and again what we will do is what we've done in the past we will keep up the military pressure we will explore all military uh uh all military and diplomatic options available to us and uh we will do our utmost to bring home the hostages we have um our team in k now trying to make a deal and at the same time this is a low level team from what I understand from media reports so can they really take decisions or do they need to come back and get the blessing of the war cabinet this is a team that was sent by our prime minister with the explicit um instruction to do what they could do to bring home the hostages now Hamas needs to come to the table and uh and negotiate in good faith uh through the mediators because enough is enough they are holding 132 Israeli hostages against their will men women children and a baby a crime against humanity okay so Iris mlo it still sounds like it's a listening Tour on the part of that midlevel that's what it's described at this midlevel uh Israeli delegation that's in Cairo so we understand because when it wasn't a listening tour they sent the the head of the mosad you know and he had more Authority I think everybody goes back to the war cabinet they want to get something finally agreed but if you're sending people who have some leeway some Independence and some ability to to horse trade I mean that's what a negotiation is and what it's understood that the remit for this group of negotiators or this team uh is to probe the gaps between the Hamas the version of things that Hamas has agreed to uh and what Israel proposed what is it now two weeks ago now something like that I do think think it's important to say that all of these intervening days there has not been an Israeli delegation in Cairo so uh it is it was H it was Egypt and it was Qatar and it was the United States finessing negotiating because an Israeli team wasn't there now Israel has sent a team which doesn't have uh full powers to negotiate and I think that sends its own me message as well now that clip we just heard was from before Lloyd a speaking are we still expecting to hear a maximalist message from the Netanyahu government and you talked about the war cabinet the war cabinet for our viewers that also means that it's in Coalition with more moderate elements is the is the is the messaging about to change out of Israel that's the question that everyone's asking uh you know there are many people within Israel who are not in the war cabinet but who have who were either hostages themselves or who have Rel relatives who are hostages inside Gaza at the moment and they are crying out for a deal uh saying as we've discussed before that an operation in Rafa can wait but the hostages cannot wait so there's an enormous amount of pressure from that side from Ordinary People I've just seen a poll which suggests that something like 50% of Israelis believe the hostage deal must be done now and those numbers rise depending on different subgroups within the population so there's a huge uh pressure from within the population on Benjamin Netanyahu and then there's the right-wing parts of his government who don't want a hostage deal and who do want a maximalist uh operation within Rafa and the question is what will Benjamin Netanyahu do Which side will he come down on Frank Lowenstein Benjamin Netanyahu uh under What scenario does he agree to a truce that would effectively imperil his own political survival yeah that's really the question uh from the United States perspective is what can we do with our actions to drive him to that decision because there's no question he's shown repeatedly that if he's given a choice between his extremist Coalition and President Biden he'll choose his extremist Coalition every time we negotiated extensively with Netanyahu in 2014 during the Gaza war with Hamas uh back then and and the challenge with Neto is that he'll say he wants to do an agreement but then he'll just kill it by nickeling diming every single element of negotiation so I think what we're trying to get him to do is to see the bigger picture here which is that this is not about all the little words in the document it's about stopping the fighting getting the hostages out and having an opportunity to reset and I think that's exactly what he's most concerned about if there's actually a ceasefire then the momentum will build to end the war on one way or the other at which point he'll face elections and probably go to jail from his corruption trial so he's in a very difficult spot and Frank lonstein uh harking back to those days of 2014 is Benjamin Netanyahu a hardliner Who will never negotiate uh well he's a he's a hardliner in the sense that he's extremely difficult to negotiate with he he will fight you over every single comma in that entire document and he'll make every last tiny little provision seem as if it's a life or death situation for the israelies and the problem with that is that it's because his ultimate goal is probably to kill these ceasefire negotiations so it's very difficult for us to to to put public pressure on him to accept changes in a document that he's characterizing publicly as being something very different than they are and that's why I think you've seen the weapons conditioning and the and blink and certification be stalled because I think we're trying to send the message to the Israelis that hey you know we're not screwing around on this IR M just to give a complete picture on all of this um those Israeli tanks that moved in Tuesday morning since then there's been no Aid going into the Gaza Strip the Israeli government says it's reopened the carrot Shalom Crossing in the south of the country however the UN says there's no one to get the aid because pales Ians on the other side have fled uh it is true that the um that the the crossing at the Rafa border the rougher border crossing that Israel has now occupied uh leads to Egypt that used to be open it's no longer open but Kum Shalom is open erors in the north of the Gaza Strip that is the Israeli side of the north of Gaza Strip is open Aid is going in the problem is um delivery you know how do you ensure that it gets to people how do you ensure it gets to people who have fled from Rafa under Israeli instructions to do so are now intense further along almasi closer to the coast how do you ensure they get the aid uh if the same people in Rafa the UN other deliverers are worried and how do you ensure that Hamas doesn't take the aid um as they have done previously during these past few months and simply sell it back to Palestinians in the markets so there's lots of questions that a ceasefire would help answer and ch and I think that's why we're seeing this us pressure and that's why uh it's time it's going to be crunch time I think for Benjamin Netanyahu H and I I really I honestly could not tell you which way he will jump it is interesting that he opened Kum Shalom he did that at after a conversation with prime minister with President Biden he said it would open yesterday that didn't happen it has opened today perhaps that's a result uh of of the actions we've seen taken um and the very public words of Lloyd Austin all right many thanks here is marer in Jerusalem Frank Lowenstein for being with us from from the US uh for that we'll continue of course to monitor this story

Channel: FRANCE 24 English

Views: 15,142

Keywords: Binyamin Netanyahu, Gaza Strip, Hamas, Israel, Joe Biden, Netanyahu, Palestine, Palestinian Territories, Students, USA, assault, attack, france 24, gaza, hamas, israel, united states, war, weapons

Id: mNmQi6xlyrY

Length: 16min 14sec (974 seconds)

Published: Wed May 08 2024