Understanding Anxiety & Worry | Aware Webinar

welcome everyone to our webinar today on understanding anxiety and worry my name is Dr Susan branck I'm a clinical psychologist and Clinical Director here at aware and I'm joined today by Michael Len and darra oo to talk about our topic anxiety who I'll invite to introduce themselves in just a moment but just as we um give a few minutes to people to join just maybe to say a little bit about aware and the webinars that we run so for those of you that are new to our webinar series we do these webinars on the second Wednesday of every month and you can find more information on our website aware. where you'll also find information about our information our education and support programs for people living with depression anxiety bipolar and related mood conditions so in terms of our webinar today really really welcoming uh questions that you might have so please uh put them in the Q&A box as we're going through so we'll have a bit of time at the end to address them um as I always say we can't answer maybe specific queries so if there's anything that you're left with about your own kind of particular circumstances maybe talk to your mental health professional or your GP but uh as I say we'll do our best to answer them as we go all right so I think we're kind of joined by a good few there so what I might do is is is sort of kick off um so as I said my name is Dr Susan branic Clinical Director at aware and today we're going to be talking about understanding anxiety and worry so um darra I might just ask you to introduce yourself briefly first yeah of course thank you suzan yeah my name is Dar Bo um originally from Mayo living in WC Center um I'm a business director in a recruitment company in town um yeah I'm looking forward to the talk great thanks Daren great to have you and Michael so thanks Susan hi everyone so yeah my name is Michael Len and I'm a psychotherapist and I founded an organization called anxiety Ireland and the reason for that was well when I was starting out as a therapist maybe about eight years ago it just seemed to be I was getting so many clients were coming to me with with anxiety and while each case was different just you know sort of similar variations so it really sparked my interest to get further training in the area and then provide a service for folks so yeah really looking forward to today and maybe talking about what I learned over the years brilliant yeah great to have you thanks Michael and and certainly I suppose seeing from our numbers for the webinar today there's a huge interest maybe in in kind of talking through anxiety so looking forward to the the conversation today um and and maybe we might just get going really with with kind of starting off I suppose we talk about anxiety quite a fair bit don't we it's a it's a kind of word that's used a lot um and and maybe as a as a kind of starting point maybe Michael if you want to maybe think about giving a bit of an overview what what exactly do we mean when we say anxiety like what what does that look like yeah for sure well I suppose yeah the when someone says oh I'm anxious it can mean a lot of different things or I'm experiencing anxiety and I suppose yeah it it would sort of convey a sense of that there's maybe a heightened sense of fight ORF flight going on for the person and fight ORF flight is there evolutionarily to to support us to keep us safe but it can be really good to get us out of a tricky situation if there's like danger also activate if there's a bit of stress going on we've a lot of pressure we're juggling things at home or or in work but with anxiety it's sort of like the same system is going off but maybe it's due to us perhaps overestimating certain dangers or having a lot of worries or you know the kind of the the fears in our life of certain situations or negative beliefs we might have about ourself or not liking certain ways that we're feeling we can Panic oh I don't like this feeling so while we're not in any perhaps physical danger our body believes that we are so when someone is experiencing chronic anxiety can feel like a heightened sense of danger physically they might maybe their their body is feeling tense their breathing's going a little bit different their heart rate's up they feel overall more tense maybe mentally more worrying about the future finding themselves thinking more negatively or retrospectively looking at situations and going oh I shouldn't have said this I should have said that um a lot a lot of kind of sort of thinking about the worst going on emotionally we might see some folks uh if that's chronic you know starting to feel a little bit more irritable or feeling guilty about how they're feeling or feeling insecure or maybe even jealous or or just just more afraid on a day-to-day basis again even though they are they are in a safe place and then probably as well you might see a little bit as well of like someone's Behavior starting to change in some way maybe seeking a little bit of extra reassurance avoiding certain situations people places and yeah maybe an increase in behaviors that that look like they're helping but they're not maybe um in the long term making the person any happier Can it can just get a little worse so anxiety can kind of maybe start small but can sort of begin to to mushroom and and begin to take over someone's life in a bigger way as time goes on yeah thanks thanks Michael that's a really good description and we might kind of pick up on some of those themes as we go through I suppose as you say um one of those the kind of key bits of things that keep anxiety going or and this will probably resonate with a lot of people listening of the the kind of things that feel like they're helping in the short term but in the longer term maybe keep the problem big or keep it kind of um keep it anxiety provoking so it gives relief but that it keeps the problem going so there I suppose you say there's um it's a whole system kind of experience isn't it so it's a threat response that maybe is getting activated at times when it probably shouldn't be and it then it's kind of activating that fight or flight and that's affecting kind of how the person might be thinking and kind of predicting the worst about the future maybe kind of ruminating as well but that kind of fear and this was maybe kind of seeing a threat and maybe underestimating that ability to cope with it and then kind of the bodily Sy symptoms or Sensations maybe and the kind of as you said the kind of avoiding in the different behaviors what other kind of body stuff do you think um kind of resonates with anxiety in terms of what might people notice if they're feeling anxious sometimes you may not always have the thought in your mind but you might have a feeling in your body yeah that's it Susan and and I think most of us these days we are very much we spend a lot of time in our head we're on our screens or we're thinking things true and and we might might not always have um I have to practice it myself every day you know to check with my body how am I actually feeling because the body's giving you all sorts of information so some of the things other things that people might notice you know you might might people might be getting a sense of maybe their their hands are cold or clammmy or they're noticing their heart rate is is a little bit more up or they're more tense or digestive issues tend to go alongside with anxiety and that's kind of evolutionarily when we were in danger um say when we were running away from something the body taught well let's send all of our all the blood and all the focus into our arms and limbs to fight our flight to get away so so digestion can sort of get affected um yeah so there's a number of things maybe increased twitching or just that increased kind of tension or noticing like someone drops something we might be a little bit more startled so yeah all these things are kind of maybe some indicators that the person's going through a lot of anxiety sure yeah thank you thanks Michael it's it's a good description and maybe Dar to bring you in there a bit about I guess your experience of of anxiety and kind of maybe some of those things may resonate or or differently perhaps yeah of course yeah definitely Michael hit a lot of stuff there that maybe I've G to my past I suppose for me anxiety has been with me good chunk of my life especially when I younger going through maybe from 13 to 14 that's when I really kind of identified this as my look back as as anxiety when I was really young in school I I was pretty bad bullied at school so I'm gay so I I stood out a lot in school so maybe when I when I remember walking through corridors I remember this feeling of being on edge uncomfortable with my own skin just very super aware of what's going on around me um and always trying to look for exits where can I go or get out to to avoid these scenarios that's when I supp when I really started to see the first bits and pieces of anxiety um I the buling kind of was up and down throughout the years um and then obviously when I left school The Bullying St completely but for some reason I kept on with it so I kept kind of kind of putting myself down and I found my anxiety stems AOW from sting anxiety so when when when I went to college or in Dublin when I was going around the streets or in pubs or nightclubs that's when it really started to get worse and worse and worse um I felt when I I was around certain people um that's when I rest started to to feel this Panic um erratic thoughts sweaty Pals um always leaving super early avoiding um so there were the main areas my mine was really Source anxiety um and just kind of trying to avoid certain certain areas and people to Cal it down so it was very limiting for those couple years so pretty much from 13 up until around 24 that's when that's was my desire was that is worse yeah yeah thanks Tara um and like yeah thanks for for describing that because I suppose there's really kind of interesting things you've you've sort of raised there in terms of anxiety also doesn't just come out of nowhere does it so we have a threat response is kind of both of you are saying and sometimes it can it can get I guess maybe stuck at times and and the environment I think is really key in terms of and that's true of of any kind of mental health condition our our experiences are going to influence kind of how it is and and kind of what plays out so what from the past kind of plays out in the here and now and I see you might nodding there a bit Michael what what would you say to that or what's your experience yeah I think well well certainly uh you know early events um early life events things that happen to us experiences in school things from our family of origin culture events so those are going to kind of encode in us how we respond to certain threats you know sometimes I think about it a little bit like you know even as our our youngest self as a baby we're we're nearly building up our kind of worldview or our map of the world is it safe is it not safe and you know all through childhood we're building that up and it's a little bit like then when we come to adulthood it's like the if we were computer programmers the base code of how we see the world is you know it has been written written when we're small and as kids it's very common for us to think you know it's all my fault or oh I must not be any any fun or oh I can't sing or oh I don't belong people people won't accept me and you know those those experiences cuz kids they they often don't even have the words to explain explain that or explore that not all of us get a chance to talk to someone when we're small when things happen kind of can you know build that up as time goes on and then into adulthood when there's a trigger or so or situation it's very common then you know our first thought is going to be a negative thought about that or we're going to be trash danger um and even though some sometimes we can be nearly hard on ourselves afterwards going I know it's like what I'm worrying about oh sure it didn't happen it never happens but yet it happens kind of the worry happens again and again in each new situation so yeah I think we have to recognize that it's not our fault you know and say don't worry don't worry about it it's kind of useless well it happens automatically yeah that's my initial reaction straight away um but there is stuff we can do about it you know you can get help for it yeah yeah yeah it's an interesting idea isn't it I guess as as kids kind of we have less of a a Capac to understand where responsibility lies you know for adults Behavior so we do tend to internalize kind of it's my fault as you say and and maybe kind of tapping into that idea about worry so maybe of certain kind of psychological models of worry might be kind of positioning that as a way to try to control or maybe to manage uncertainty so we do that a bit don't we so if as you say it's an automatic process but if I think this to it's every possible conclusion then I might be able to manage the outcome and that's not necessarily a it's not a conscious process necessarily there might be kind of some of the background beliefs that might be driving worry which we might kind of pick up again in a moment but I guess maybe it makes me think and and as Dar you were saying kind of for you sort of social anxiety and and I guess that's kind of maybe that's a bit different isn't it I suppose from we might feel like let's say I might feel anxious about this webinar you know that's different maybe to a social anxiety excuse me condition and I wonder Michael is it wor saying a bit about the different types of of anxiety conditions or or disorders as they might be described as as opposed to anxiety which is you know what I mean if that's a symptom maybe so it kind of maybe delineating that for people a little yeah for sure and and maybe it is as you said it comes back to that relationship with with uncertainty is B is a really big factor of it of it and I suppose it's it's that whatever is the thing for the person that the that you know the uncertain situation that they that they don't maybe enjoy it keeps back up again and again where something like I'm nervous about this webinar or I'm nervous about doing my driving test normally that kind of passes and we get that uh you know the the sort of rest and digest side of our nervous system that kind of you get you find good news you pass the test your body relaxes immediately you know um and goes through that process but with a lot of anxiety it it can kind of be persistent or maintained um so I suppose yeah yeah they they do delineate different forms of anxiety so one maybe being more like general anxiety which can maybe be seen with a maybe a lot of just sort of worries about the future it may be quite a general thing you know what if this happens oh I won't be able to cope you know typically maybe a lot of overestimating the danger and underestimating ourselves not seeing ourselves as capable so it's called General but it can kind of kind of be about anything or a few different areas you know you know are we going to be okay are we getting sick are people around us safe are our kids safe uh is you know are we going to get in trouble in work is there going to be natural disaster so so General is a really big area but then yeah they would delineate out social anxiety as well which is particularly more in in those kind of social situations which again you know as human beings we are we are mammals that we are uh you know biologically and neurologically conditioned to to want to be accepted and to want to be in the group and you know for for an infant as well you know being being cast aside or being rejected is also akin to death so you know I think there was a a study done they said you know they interviewed a lot of soldiers would you rather be on the would you rather have to give a speech at the UN or would you rather be on the front line a lot of them said I'd actually rather take the physical danger so what's going on with social anxiety can be a really big focus on the self criticizing the self monitoring the self trying to maybe mind read others looking for safety um to try try and ensure that you know we're being accepted that we're fitting in that we're doing okay um and there's could be a lot of worry you know before during and after social events so that's where avoidance tends to come in so social anxiety is there maybe as its own piece panic attacks again might be something slightly different although we can have panic attacks with any kind of anxiety and that's generally when we kind of almost interpret a bodily symptom or interpret something that's going on as imminent danger or or death and you know so when say someone and this can build in someone over time and if our thoughts are connected to our nervous system and Trigger that what you might see is you know someone go goes oh I noticed my heart's bounding a little bit fast o I feel a bit strange which might be fight or flight then they go oh my God what if I'm having a heart attack or what if I'm having a stroke which even the thinking of that is probably going to increase the symptoms so people then can get what we call caught in a um catastrophic misinterpretation of a physical symptom which then can top up and and go all the way to the top they might also believe oh I'm going to faint I'm going to pass out May get an overwhelming urge to to to run to to get out of a place especially if they're a little bit embarrassed on what if I pass out in front of all these people it's going to be so the figh ORF flight goes up and and they they may wish to run but funny thing is actually passing out with panic attacks is not very common it's uh it's actually low blood pressure that causes passing out not kind of a raiseed blood pressure so um yet yet to meet too many people whove said they have actually passed out during panic attacks but it's a very common fear that people have I'm going to fall I'm going to hit my head I'm going to ruin ruin the day I'm at my friend's wedding I'm going to ruin it I need to get out of here I need to retreat and then a sort of a cycle perhaps of avoidance then can set in with panic attacks as well um so yeah there's there's a few others but there maybe a bit more specific like as OCD PTSD but I think generally those are some of the main we'd see in in the general population quite a lot yeah yeah and and me too I think I think that really resonates in terms of and I guess it sort of matters kind of what kind of anxiety um condition is playing out for people because the the kind of intervention may be kind of slightly different I suppose so I suppose maybe in in some ways they that fight ORF flight being active it's a it's a problem of attention in a sense as well so in social anxiety the the attention focuses on the self and as you said scanning for confirmation that something's wrong potentially and and in panic the attention is on the body symptom and then that drives a belief that actually this is catastrophic and I need to do something quick um and I guess some of these I suppos to name it maybe a lot of these ideas are kind of coming from a cognitive behavioral therapy kind of uh framework and I so that's one it's one approach that can be beneficial and maybe kind of Derek and I kind of inviting you in here again as well about I guess even kind of what what was your experience of what's been helpful about kind of managing anxiety and and kind of what's been useful in that Journey for you yeah of course um I I definitely have a number of things in the past but I remember when I was I think it was 23 or 24 and um I kind of was I kind of broke down in front of my mom and she brought me straight to a doctor and then my doctor pretty much recommended me to go see a psychiatrist um who specialized in CBT and that without a doubt just transform transform my life completely pretty much what mik was saying before again rassing thoughts I I was avoiding everything I used to wear a cap over my head I would never really I wouldn't leave the house a lot of the times I would um always looking out for areas of danger but I was never really under threat but they're all inside my own head um so once I start doing the TBT he slowly started to help shift my mindset about myself and about the threats that were around me or lack off um so that was that was that was a huge that's pretty much changed my life completely that CBT and that phenomenal doctor um so that was one thing that really helped me and other things that helped me as well in the past um even this day I do it I don't do it religiously but I do it as much as I Poss can I try to do some form of meditation I try to do some form of exercise uh I'm not a great jogger not a great Runner but get out in fresh air that really helps me as well um doing some form of Fitness going to the gym and um and as well was in the past when the anxiety was really really bad I did go on a form of anti-depressant for maybe a year that that that definitely did help um I didn't want to stay on them forever but I just wanted to help with the with the counseling so that really kind of help me as well so the CBT definitely was a huge impact in my life and I can I can see before and after CBT that's great isn't it and as you say kind of yeah there's different strands to what's helpful it sounds like talking to your mom as well was was a big step in terms of saying this is what's going on yeah exactly so for years before that I was what M was saying I it was all me me me I was so focused on myself like I was the issue I always felt like I was some point an alien I was different from everyone else as was I I got to such a level um in my early 20s that I literally couldn't take it anymore so I was so lucky that I had that one person that I just I kind of I broke down she knew she knew that something wasn't right but she didn't want to Cy but I opened up she as I said before got me to a great doctor got me great counselor and then my life turned around completely yeah it sounds like it really opened up those kind of opportunities for you to to kind of come out of that kind of cycle of as you said kind of wearing the cap and avoiding and and feeling stuck in that anxiety place and I suppose one of the the key bits that we're talking about is avoidance is like one of the biggest things in anxiety isn't it and as you say sort of CBT really changed your life and I wonder I wonder how I'm not sure if it's possible to answer this but kind of what kind of helped in in tackling some of that avoidance you know taking those small steps to to to kind of getting into situations or doing things a bit differently what was that like well look back now these scenar were so mundane like getting out of a car walking down the street going into a bar going into a shop these were huge things for me was I went as was for a long period of time in school where I was judged and spoke about negatively verus a long per time and then that stopped but then I was that uilt I suppose a belief Within Myself And so I just had to break it down bit by bit and every week he just tell me just take a cap off and walk around the block um just get out the car for a second and go back in again small little bits and pieces and they're all tiny little winds and slowly but slowly built my confidence built my self-esteem um by doing these small little not not you things but these small little little items that pretty much transform my life me yeah and I get they're not small though are they if you're feeling really anxious I think they're not one Daye they're huge actually and as your your body is reacting like that it's this a very very frightening experience isn't it so it's it's really courageous to be able to do those steps and as you say it's sort of doing that kind of those actions built up your confidence but so it also built up a belief in yourself so that's a different way of thinking and sort of broke down the other kind of maybe more entrenched view you had of yourself because you were sound like you were having experiences that were disconfirming that and actually showing that yeah the kind of maybe the worst thing didn't happen I would guess maybe or exactly everything I thought my head I was so Terri of never ever ever happened it was the opposite people want to be with me people want to be my friends people maybe want to go on a date or these things were in my own head I was just kind of this monster I just I I didn't want to be around people but I was I was getting the opposite um so it's kind of like you said I kind of creating that belief that that Foundation of more be self love self-confidence um but it definitely was a long journey but that was definitely the starting block of this CBT yeah that's really great sh I guess that's the one of the key bits of of CBT is a therapy it's quite active isn't it so we could kind of all kind of talk at length about something I try to you might try to convince me of something but it's I might try to convince Michael but actually it's the doing isn't it that kind of gives the experience that you can you can see it differently potentially yeah and I I guess um Michael you're you're nodding again I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that or what Dar is saying may be resonates yeah absolutely very very much so um and like yeah because I think it really is it's the the little avoidance or safety safety seeking behaviors we call them safety behaviors that you know it might be Googling our health symptoms oh my God I need to get all the information on this or might be oh almost like fusing it all well the last time I went out there now such and such was there or I was in that place it was very noisy I couldn't handle it I'll avoid there from now on you know or even double triple checking our work if we're maybe work could be working in a very high performing job and doing a lot of these things maybe out of a maybe a perfectionistic tendency as well that we're double triple checking things that you know while that does in the short term there's the uncertainty oh what if something goes wrong what if I made a mistake what if I've got a health condition the uncertainty then we we seek the answer which may or may not bring bring the anxiety down and to pH I'm actually Grand or it I I've triple checked it now it's okay but actually yeah in the long term it kind of actually reement maybe whatever our fear is as a likelihood and kind of undermines our ability to reassure ourselves so when Dar said it's kind of like everyday things that that were problematic um that that's totally that's very very common you know that that it does get to the stage where it shrinks our comfort zone more and more and more over time well what I kind of like about someone's using a bit of a CBT approach with with clients is that you say well let's set up some uh we call them Behavior experiments to just even to to play with this and find out where the level's at so it's no uh no throwing yourself too much in the det end it's not um pass or fail even if something doesn't go according to plan well there's great information in that you can bring it back and work collaboratively with someone to uh to sort of begin to grow that comfort zone again and start said build build up that confidence build self-esteem and and see that yeah you're actually you're stronger than you think yeah as you say kind of building it up bit by bit um and that's a the it's a kind of really key point isn't it those um those sort of safety behaviors or they kind of checking and it's a hard cell isn't it because if you have something that kind of gets rid of the anxiety kind of relatively quickly it's hard to let that go but as you say it it it kind of cements it in it in a longer term sort of way as we're saying so there's there's kind of key bits I suppose if you're thinking well how do I get myself out of anxiety there as kind of Dar you're saying there's kind of there's tackling that avoidance and there's maybe there's maybe sharing it with someone as well and saying actually this is what's really going on for me and and kind of maybe starting from that point um and letting go of some of those kind of behaviors that that look like they're they're helping but they're not potentially and what does you say Michael taking that in a maybe a gentle way so not kind of flooding yourself with something terrifying but but easing into something and doing it in the in the dayto day um and I guess those kind of managing anxi kind of physical symptoms as well so there's a need to kind of regulate or kind of maybe turn the volume down on that alarm system um and I don't know maybe at there kind of midpoint in our our webinar maybe it's maybe worth kind of doing something like that as well what do you think Michael maybe just to give a bit of a flavor of what what that exercise or one of many could could be like what do you think yeah so I think that's a a lovely idea because yeah maybe we have been talking about some maybe tender topics you know and and yeah I suppose normally I would sort of start um sessions with people by by maybe offering some physical grounding techniques because you know when we're already up to here it's very hard then to to recognize oh I'm in my fighter I'm in my negative thoughts or I'm about to do this Behavior we kind of need something to to give ourselves that ha little bit of just balancing ourselves out so one uh tool that I use myself all the time and I always offer it to clients it's a breeding technique called the 478 and I really like it because uh you can actually you could be doing it um in any situation if you're about to speak in a meeting you're about to do something that's difficult you just notice you're in the car oh my stress or anxiety is a little bit up you can you can do this technique you know with your eyes open totally safely and securely so before maybe we take a few breaths together I'll just I'll just say what the 4 seven and eight are so it's uh 4 seconds breathing into the nose holding that breath for 7 seconds and then blowing it out for eight but blowing it out through pursed lips so almost like you're blowing out through a straw so and the reason why this really works is you know when our breathing is a little bit is is off or it's tight CU we're in a little bit of fight or flight it affects the levels of uh CO2 and oxygen in our blood which can also make us feel more clammmy maybe more racy mind more more just feeling a little bit dizzier off that's normally what the dizziness is even with panic attacks whereas this actually just restores those levels to a relaxed rate uh and helps us to helps us to ground I normally look for or my shoulders start to drop a little bit when I do it h you know sometimes it even makes me yawn when I do a few breaths but anyway let's let's get into it so it's so all together yeah in for four hold for seven out for aty lipse in for four hold for seven and out for eight put it two more in for four hold for seven out for eight last one in for four hold for seven and out for Ace I'm just tuning into your body there to see has any tension dropped away is any in loosened would you like to yawn or sigh you'll feel your feet on the floor so that's a very simple one that you can do anytime sometimes I'll even do it in a session with someone to see if they notice when they're going I can't be doing that in public that's got to be people will notice or I don't want to draw attention to myself well I'll say did you notice me doing it for the last you know 30 seconds or whatever so it's a really nice handy one that you can do regularly or just when needed when you become aware that you're that you're feeling anxious yeah yeah that's great thank you Michael thanks for for guiding us through hopefully it's it's kind of been useful to to people listening it feels quite relaxing I don't know what it was like for you there Dara but certainly for me it it felt a little bit relaxing yeah yeah yeah yeah and I guess it's a it's a kind of a concrete thing that as you say Michael has a grounding so there's there's a level we might call it maybe in Psychology kind of a kind of window of tolerance as well so there needs to be a level that you can kind of function at so if you're completely overwhelmed with anxiety it's not really the place to be kind of challenging thoughts or kind of what am I thinking it's actually calming down first and I guess people we kind of kind of forget that can't we so it's it's getting to a space maybe that feels feels manageable and then maybe taking in other kind of strategies and skills definitely definitely and and just to say as well for some people to you know in for four through your nose if you've a block nose or hold for seven out for eight if you've got lung issues you know you can modify that to whatever feels comfortable or lengthen it if you wish but but yeah but you're so right Susan yeah to when we're in that fight or fight fight or flight place and we're outside that window of Tolerance the the logical or the the sort of structural thinking is out the window and we're into the the amydala part of the brain that deals with trat and it's just going to it's just going to you know like when our ancestors heard a rustling in the bushes they didn't hang around to wait and see if it was uh if it was the wind or saber to Tiger they were gone so yeah you know that's that's helpful but also in in humans nowadays cannot be so yeah just to bring it back to that window of Tolerance is so important yeah to manage it and I guess maybe just another thing just to say lastly on that as well is thinking about sometimes the kind of complexity of you know if I don't do the breathing then I'm going to have the panic attack so it's I suppose it's sort of using skills to to ground yourself but also kind of knowing yourself uh what's the function of what I'm doing that's a conversation I often have with people who might kind of look for support around anxiety and you'll know yourself like what why why am I doing this so is this an avoidance or is this because I just don't to do something or am I doing this breathing because if I don't I'm frightened something else will happen so I guess just having that in mind what's the purpose of what I'm doing and does that kind of maybe kind of take me away from my goals or does it bring me a bit closer so kind of having that in mind too um so I see there's I see there's a good few questions coming in actually so what I might do is maybe start having a look at some of them um and maybe the three of us can can kind of think through some of um the answers here so okay so yeah so maybe this thinking about this one here so kind of um Health and Social Anxiety kind of spiked after the pandemic and that might be really um might really resonate with a lot of people actually we were at I know it was kind of a little while since the pandemic but certainly we were we were kind of at home for quite a long time weren't we and out of those situations um and now I know for a lot of people that I would speak to kind of have difficulties ongoing so this person is kind of saying going on transport feels very overwhelming and avoidance takes over what small steps can people do to start working on this um and I guess they this person is kind of touching on on something very Central as well about the kind of we talk to ourselves after so if it's not possible to do something feeling guilty or ashamed or unreliable so so Dara I I don't know if you might be able to take that what what small steps do you think someone could start taking if they were feeling very overwhelmed with something that they kind of had been okay before but now just feels really difficult um for me personally um just at started to got really overwhelmed so maybe no harbe speaking to someone if they feel it if if it's if it's really tough um again like I said I found exercise really really helpful just get the dophins going get out get some fresh air meditation really really helped me as well but then then the negative self talk try and get on top of that as much you possibly can because that chatter can really start bring you down so to try and go easying yourself as much as you possibly can and speaking to close friends and family that was huge to me as well um just kind of knowing that there's a strong sport system there that whenever maybe I brought something up that one or two people maybe going through simmer things themselves and it brings up a debate between your friends and family just kind of reaching out to one one or two people and they can help you that work for me in the past yeah thanks s that's really helpful and and Michael what what would you add into that yeah I think Dar is so right you know the the Dynamics of kind of you know oh shame or I'm the only one or I have to keep it as a secret or getting so so kind of hard or down on ourself um that's often a kind of nearly like a secondary process that goes on could be quite compounding and even you know sometimes anxiety can lead to depression so again I think I'd probably say you know take an inventory of where you're at with it if taking the bus or the train you know 10 stops somewhere to your destination feels like too much then you know maybe rate that on a scale of 1 to 10 and see see how how that feels normally clients will of come in and say oh yeah they they'll give me the the 10 out of tens or the eight or nines out of tens but if you start to maybe break it down a bit for yourself and go well well what are the two out of t or the three out of T maybe it's staying on this on the bus for one stop or two stops or find finding an alternative way to just push push that comfort zone just a tiny bit while still being gentle with yourself um and I suppose the idea being that you're kind of looking a little bit for a little bit of a Challenger a little bit of anxiety but not enough to completely overwhelm yourself CU it it it really is when we begin that sort of de de kind of habituation process of the avoidance that the things that were three out of 10 after doing them a couple of times are kind of going oh well that's like a one out of 10 maybe then I'll stay on for three stops or four stops and then stops and sort of just again that comfort zone idea kind of just keep keep building that up while whilst having patience for yourself whilst talking to others um yeah just while whilst whilst reaching out and um yeah you can get through this yeah yeah absolutely um there's something I know I could to say this a lot but there's something really important isn't there a about a kind of a a kind of a kind or a compassionate approach so we can often kind of want to rush to well you shouldn't feel anxious about this so just do it um or just kind of or or then that can lead to kind of finding it very difficult so as you say those small steps are really key staying on the bus that bit for the couple more stops and and kind of doing it that way and and kind of being easy with yourself that it is a process and as we're talking about today you will get there but it's it's it's a bit of a kind of getting through it um and tackling that as you go there's a there's another question there which I think is quite interesting about for kind of for those who's met for those whom meditation does not help or makes things worse what can you advise or explain why this occurs um and I guess I I'm not sure what you you might say there Michael but I suppose I and maybe it touches in what we started talking about at the beginning Dar that kind of in our for many people sort of experiences out the environment maybe haven't always been that safe so some for the first thing maybe to say is that meditation doesn't work for everyone so not everything works for everybody so it's important to find the thing that that kind of suits you and and a lot of times that Focus may be even if it's on the breathing or if it's on the body for some people or or different times in your life that maybe doesn't feel like a safe or reliable place to put that attention so I suppose it that thinking about our threat system for some people that might activate threat rather than to kind of help sort of I guess to find a kind of an observer position so that can be kind of one of the the reasons that that can be tricky so I don't know what you would say to that Michael yeah and I and I think yeah as you said Susan meditation it might either bring up a lot of fight or flight it might be very difficult maybe we've always you know needed to keep busy or there's been maybe some feelings in the body that are that are you know almost traumatic that can come up it's a very brave thing or very difficult thing to sit alone with that um but I suppose in in that case you know again maybe body scan is easier than than sitting with thoughts or vice versa but if it's really not working um maybe something like a nature-based presence of mind can be really nice you know thankfully we're heading into the the warmer months and just even taking a bit of a mindful walk in nature just to be be with the nature or have your feet on the ground uh you know your bare feet on the ground if you're in a park or something like that can be really really nice nice and grounding and kind of safe and it's not putting too much of the the focus or the attention on your body you know but then maybe may maybe for that person then it is just practicing grounding techniques throughout the day and if there are big feelings in the body that that come up when you try to when you slow down and that was actually a thing with Co a lot of people found that their busy routines were slowed down and Co just stuff from years ago and started kind of coming out they started remembering things or thinking about things um you know that that maybe then you know being able to talk to someone through that or like what what is that is it is it just my mind is too busy um or is it that there's stuff going on in the body and and another actual kind of thing I found with with meditation it's very hard to just sit and think but sometimes actually having maybe a little bit of a dance or something like that a little dance around the house or the apartment moving the body a little bit or going out for a walk and then sitting down to see if meditation Works can often just it settled the mind you've released a lot of that a lot of the energy rather than just going straight from one thing to another to meditating yeah yes so I guess there's there's got a bit of a trial and error for you as an individual and it isn't there as you say and and dar it makes me think of what you were saying there as well about kind of the other part that had been really helpful for you which was kind of exercise and and having that as part of kind of the the routine yeah exactly when I look back maybe in my early 20s meditation would not have worked for me either so I can I can relate to that person um I I I I may have tried it maybe once or twice but the thoughts were so powerful I could not get them under control so I had to go down a different route to um to get to that State uh but now I find meditation really helps me because maybe I went through the counsel and the CBT different different aspects um to get my midal mental head back on track but definitely yeah I find exercise fantastic going for a quick jog even a brisk walk um I I know what that person saying when the lockdown happens people work from home I'm slowly getting back into the office again it does take time to kind of get to me be be around people again and anxiety can come up so just kind of be go easy myself come in as much as I possibly can I know I know if I go out drinking maybe over a week weend that's going to have a knock on effect on me throughout that week so I've put back a lot on drinking alcohol eating kind of pretty healthy kind of foods less sugary food that kind of helps me as well kind of C down anxiety that's for me personally I know that I'm kind a high energy kind of person that can maybe ratten me even a bit more so yeah definitely exercise can eating bit healthy less alcohol being around people you love um yeah those kind of things help me yeah yeah thanks sah that's really helpful actually because it really makes me think as well sort of when anxiety sort of takes hold there's a bit of a an urge to to kind of stay with it isn't there or that kind of you know that that I need to think about X or Y or I need to kind of problem solve but actually as you say those things that you're describing are are really much more helpful and helps kind of break that cycle as well and certainly if someone is getting caught up in a worry cycle it's really really helpful rather than trying to kind of come back well it won't happen because of X or Y or this is why I shouldn't worry it's actually about moving the body as you say Dar maybe it's about going for a jog or doing something different it's sort of kind of breaking that kind of again it's that attention focus isn't it and activating the body in in a more in a different way ex yeah exactly and and it say something just coming in for me there as as well you know I suppose over time changing that that relationship to worry or thoughts that we get so hooked on them and then they pull us in but normally underneath a lot of worries again if we go back to the body there's there's maybe a feeling there there's a fear there's something uncomfortable there's a part of us that that that is really caught up maybe even be caught caught at that younger age where things have happened or it's just just caught in there's a vulnerability there in the body that often we'll try and think our way out of it go oh I get this bad feeling and it must be there must be something wrong or it must be this and we think all you know Seven Ways to Sunday about about what it could be or what's wrong but actually event eventually if we're able yeah getting back to that place of kind of compassion for okay part of me is really unsettled is really worried uh the trigger is maybe is whatever it is but in me can I send that place a little bit of compassion or or what it needs whether that's get up and move or journal or talk to a friend you know it's kind of inner inner kind of family we have going on of of different parts of oursel and and yeah looking after ourselves rather than kind of condemning ourselves then you know which just a oh I'm I shouldn't be like this you know actually okay A Feeling may just want to be felt for for five minutes to be recognized and go oh yeah I am feeling feeling more deeply about this and I realize that can that can often really help to kind of diffuse the thoughts as you said Susan rather than trying to logic our way out of all of them because that that can sometimes just be you get lost in am maze then yeah um but what's going on underneath and finding the things that work for you as an individual what you like is really important yeah yeah absolutely and there's a there's a question here that kind of resonates a bit with what you're saying there about this idea of kind of retrospective ly looking back at situations and maybe torturing yourself with what you've done and you've spoken a little bit about to that haven you about kind of compassion um and I suppose maybe advice for that I guess my question is kind of what's the not necess for that specifically but again it's kind of what's the purpose of this thinking what am I where am I trying to get to as you say am I trying to logic my way out of it am I trying to punish myself for what's happened am I trying to learn from it so it doesn't happen again and I guess it kind of brings back to that idea of how do you know when thinking is has become problematic whether it's now become ruminative or whether it's become worry based and I think your body generally tells you that if you moved from a place of kind of looking for answers and you know problem solving into kind of more anxiety thinking so definitely kind of bringing in self-compassion around the the aftermath oftentimes we do lots of strange things when we might feel anxious that no one notices you know as you said Michael and maybe people not even picking up when you're doing the breathing exercise we don't tend to really notice things about people but our minds might tell us something qu different has happened so so it's kind of diffusing those sort of thoughts a little bit um and there's a question here maybe I'll read it out actually it's interesting because it might might be relevant to a lot of people so I watch the news and current affairs a lot and with all that's happening in the world right now I find I get very worried about the present and the future where you can take over and during discussions with people then I find myself getting very angry maybe too passionate over it is this me being anxious should I just turn off from watching and reading these articles or is this just me caring about what's happening in the world that's really relevant maybe for the the kind of world that we're in I don't know if either of you have any kind of views on that Michael do you want to do you want to kick there yeah absolutely um well I think yeah of course it it can be good to be up to date and of course our you know our heart goes out to everybody in the world who's you know been impacted by war or disasters or climate change um though the piece the piece might be you know what what would it cost you you know to to limit that that searching you know a lot a lot of kind of so easy to get lost in a loop or kind of in in the in scrolling or 24-hour news has been a thing but especially on phones to get really bogged down in the in the nitty-gritty and and that's kind of you know they say you know you are you are what you eat or you need to watch your diet well sort of a social media diet or media diet is also maybe a part of that too so while yeah the the courage and the passion to speak out about social issues and issues in the world is really is really valid and and needed there's also that piece of you know where's the self-care in that of like how many hours a day should could would be good for someone or for one to to spend looking into all these things or you know is it possible to take maybe strategic days off like take a Sunday off right today now I'm not going to look at the news I'm not I'm going to give myself a little break from it from everything because that constant feed of of of information and terrible images or or negativity it do it definitely it will have an impact on our outlook on the world and how we're thinking and our fears but maybe if if you feel you can you can do something about about you know go to a protest or give a little money for climate change or whatever whatever it is to do your do your little part but then remember you know you need to to be happy too and and to live and that'll actually maybe make make you a more effective Advocate or more effective at what you're doing so it's but I hear you it's a trick really tricky balance it's a really unprecedented time so again just yeah that gentleness with yourself but asking what what's best for me with with how much I'm consuming yeah yeah and and there's a good few questions coming in about I suppose um on one level sort of CBT for for teenagers and and children and and certainly cognitive behavioral therapy is is beneficial so it's a it's a recommended intervention um along with various other kind of interventions for anxiety and depression so so do look it up if you're if you're interested in that for kind of younger younger adults so it's it's a different maybe it might be accessible in a different way way but that's yeah so that that that can be really helpful and I guess it ties on to the the second part of those questions about kind of supporting someone who might be going through an anxiety episode and I dare I don't know if you might be able to say a little bit to that about kind of what what might be helpful to from if someone was thinking well how do I support this person what what what's sort of useful there do you think um just just just listen just be as open as you possibly can try not interrupt just be an open book for them um again like I said before my life changed when I was 24 when my mom pretty much listened to me and just give me the biggest hope I brought me to the doctor straight away because God knows where my life would have gone if I didn't open up to that to to my mom so um yeah just be open be there for that person um treat them with compassion and respect and um just yeah just just just listen as much as you possibly can and offer as much support as you possibly can to that person because um yeah it takes a lot it it it may think it's weakness by but it's so brave when I look back at my 24 year old self um was in my head I thought oh this is weakness and pathetic what's wrong with me why can't I just be like a normal 24 year old guy but when I look back I was so brave in even open up to my mother to explain what was going on so just just be kind yourself and know that what you're doing is going to have a massive change your life the future for the better yeah thanks Daren thank you that's beautifully said yeah and I guess there's it just there's a really nice comment in here I might actually read it out actually because it's it's helpful um would it stand up in court is one question I ask myself to deescalate worry so that's maybe a different strategy that that people can kind of help and challenging some of those more negative thoughts um as a as an older woman I'd like to reassure young people there's nothing wrong with them and age does bring ease which is a nice a nice point and thank you for all the great tips thanks especially to Dara a very par ful stuff and and and I really Echo that yeah thank you dere and really it's really helpful to kind of think about what it What is helpful you know and what it's like to kind of go through it you know it's as you were saying it feels like when you have anxiety or depression or any kind of something that kind of really can impact your life that everyone else is sort of managing it better and that you might be the only person who has this sorry no no go ahead go ahead no when I was young looking at my peers and vaness are loving life and you know everything was going great for them and then internally I felt oh everything's going wrong for me and I'm so so so hard on myself um but yeah just like you said take a step back and just just be as open as you possibly can and there's so much support out there for people yeah yeah absolutely and Michael I don't know if you wanted to add in anything to those last two two points or not or sorry I was actually just kind of in a hour there yeah of what he just said you know so um yeah but what was the last what was that last question again so sorry I guess just thinking about um the the kind of theme of isolation and anxiety you know and the importance of kind of connecting out for help um oh absolutely absolutely and the amount of people you know Gru might say oh God what there's a name for some of these kind of thoughts that I'm having there's there you know they say oh you're going to think I'm mad or you're going to think I'm this and I'm like no no these are common I've had look back I I've had them myself you know it's so so so common and so many of us you know don't know the exact stat but it's a huge number like more than 50% of us or more we'll have a a mental health challenge at a time in our life or life will knock us down a little bit and just more negativity might start coming in we're less optimistic for the future we're more fearful so yeah you know there is there is a lot of help out there for for folks you know even webinars like this or Services wi WID aware uh free phone numbers counseling and Psychotherapy there's um alternative therapies you know or or just even getting more out in nature sure support groups it's yeah it is it is out there and yeah just don't don't ever be ashamed to to just talk to someone and I would also say you know sometimes the the earlier in some ways the better you know you know do you if if there's a if there's a couple of leaks in your roof you know and you're kind of going there's something going on here you know do you go oh you know do we wait wait wait until the roof is kind of come in as caved in or like I say it's always good even as a preventative just to to put a few steps into maybe a few sessions or talking with someone about about your mental health or self-help books things like that yeah there's a lot of great books out there so yeah absolutely yeah so then yeah and certainly kind of our website and and kind of there's um I think there's it's come up in some of the questions maybe something kind of around OCD as well there's OCD UK for anyone who might be listening is's wondering more about that it's a really great resource and no Panic is a is a good one for for panic um attacks and I guess just Just One Last point to to kind of tie into what you were saying there Michael you might agree with this I'm not sure but I suppose if you're thinking um you know some of these thoughts I have are quite mad or really unusual I I can guarantee they're they're probably quite shared you know something I often use with people is um a study that was done about the kind of thoughts that people kind of endorsed having you know really kind of maybe unusual thoughts are actually really common across the general population like shouting something out in public or or you know kind of pushing someone off a a train platform or these are just thoughts that might happen so it's I guess this idea that we can all have a whole range of unusual thoughts it's not it's not abnormal I guess what we're saying today it's it's our relationship with how we think and our relationship with what's happening in our body and maybe some of then the strategies we get caught up in can kind of keep anxiety going which is a bit of a kind of an overview of that CBT model um but I'm aware we're we're kind of gotten to time so maybe Michael I start might start with you just very briefly if you in one or two words what what you might take on What's the most important thing maybe for people to take away from them in the webinar today be kind to yourself great thanks very much and and Dara a word or two what's the most important thing for you the biggest message I want to give is Just Like You Are Not Alone um and if you can speak to someone anyone because there's so many people going through similar scenarios that you are and it just takes one person to have changed some part of your life um and yeah be kind yourself brilliant thank you so much Dara thanks for for sharing your experience it's been really really valuable and thank you to Michael it's been really really good discussion hopefully it's been of of benefit to people and of interest and and certainly um do Let us know in the in the feedback after kind of how you found it so thank you both so much it's been a really it's a pleasure speaking to you both today you're very welcome so moving on to the webinar for next month if you're if you can join us we'll be talking about perinatal mental health with Richard Duffy uh Maria Kane and Orla conin so that'll be on the 8th of May so hopefully see many of you again there thanks for joining us today thanks again Michael andara and see you all next month thanks Susan take care everybody byee

Channel: Aware

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Id: CZ3rA5684NU

Length: 61min 15sec (3675 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 10 2024