Twins get 'mystifying' DNA ancestry test results (Marketplace)

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Question. They used twins for this example, but would we expect the same result if one person submitted their DNA to the same company twice, under different accounts?

👍︎︎ 6888 👤︎︎ u/MyCoolWhiteLies 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies

Reddit should hire science people to come into threads and explain science to non-science people.

I'm not a science people, I'm just making a suggestion.

👍︎︎ 2340 👤︎︎ u/PIP_SHORT 📅︎︎ Jan 23 2019 🗫︎ replies

I tried 23andme but they couldn’t get any DNA from my spit. They gave my money back after the second spit sample didn’t work out. Anybody else?

👍︎︎ 124 👤︎︎ u/LarsPinetree 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies

I think I read somewhere that what they do is part art and part science, i.e., not a perfect science.

One anecdote, when I took my test I was matched against a guy that turned out to be my bastard uncle. We found out about him 20+ years ago but my grandpa always denied it even though we were 99% sure he was his. Well, grandpa (now dead), he was yours.

👍︎︎ 172 👤︎︎ u/rjcarr 📅︎︎ Jan 23 2019 🗫︎ replies
👍︎︎ 131 👤︎︎ u/alex_dlc 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies

Me and my identical twin did one with "23 and me" I believe it was called. And the results came back so close to being the same that the website recognizes us the same person. So they seem pretty legit.

👍︎︎ 45 👤︎︎ u/Sean-- 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies

Most of them aren't that different though...

"OMG, I'm 37.7% Italian and you're only 36.8%!"

👍︎︎ 303 👤︎︎ u/IPunderduress 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies

Remember hearing Cambridge Analytica data mining?...all of the crap you click, watch, listen to. calls you make places you go the list goes on. it is all being logged. The analytics are worth money or anticipated to be worth money.

My true belief is that these companies are literally false advertising and giving results that are based on a form of science that is absolutely incomplete in an effort to build a new and incredibly valuable database.

👍︎︎ 114 👤︎︎ u/makithejap 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies

Breaking news! Statistical study falls within standard deviation. Tiny sample size extrapolated exponentially produces panicked pseudoscience silliness.

👍︎︎ 126 👤︎︎ u/kalgary 📅︎︎ Jan 24 2019 🗫︎ replies
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♪ [ theme ] -[ Charlsie ] One set of identical twins, five DNA ancestry tests. What?! I have French and German. Oh, I don't have that. -[ Charlsie ] Five different sets of results. We strongly think that you and your sister should get the same report. I don't want to be a buzz kill. I don't think it's entirely accurate. -[ Charlsie ] Want to know more about your heritage? You can't afford to miss this Marketplace. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] I'm on holiday in the Mediterranean. Tunisia I think is that way. And Sicily is that way. I'm heading back to my roots or what I think are my roots. [ Speaking Italian ] Giuseppe driving the boat. My family hails back to Sicily. So here we are in beautiful Noto. Buona sera. Off the tip of Italy. And I have Polish and Ukrainian roots too. Or at least that's what my family tells me. So how can I be sure? I thought I married an Italian. I found out that I was only 16% Italian. He was 34% eastern European. -[ Charlsie ] Judging by marketing like this, DNA tests have the answers. [ ♪♪ ] When I found you in my DNA, I learned where my strength comes from. -[ Charlsie ] Millions of people are buying kits curious about their ancestry. You can pinpoint specifically? -[ Charlsie ] Companies promise their tests will reveal where you come from, who your people are. It's really nice to have some kind of a connection to my background. -[ Charlsie ] But just how accurate are they? We're testing five companies to find out. Ancestry DNA, 23andMe, MyHeritage DNA, FamilyTree DNA and Living DNA. [ Doorbell Rings ] Hello. Thank you. Oh, and there's a twist. Oh, yeah. You have some drool. There you go. -[ Charlsie ] My sister Carly is in on this too. That's her son, Max. And, no, you're not seeing double. We're identical twins. Ooh. All right. -Step one. -[ Charlsie ] Fill the tube with saliva to the black wavy line. Carly and I are testing two things. Will the companies have different breakdowns from each other? I have way too many bubbles? And will they have different breakdowns for each of us? I feel like I'm on Law and Order. -[ Charlsie ] Yeah. CSI. It's DNA science. We're identical twins, so the results should all be the same, right? Cheers. Don't touch it, though. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] I double check to make sure we're not mixing up our samples. This is going all the way to Dublin, Ireland. The Netherlands. Concord, Ontario. And two are going to Texas. [ ♪♪ ] I'm shook. -[ Charlsie ] These ancestry kits can change some people's sense of who they are. 11% Scandinavia, which I love. Now, this is crazy because like I said it's a very-- it's a big percentage. We are 53% Nigerian. Woo! My mom was full Chinese. My dad is half Chinese. Half we thought was Spanish but it's British. 5% of me is Ashkenazi Jewish. I don't even know what Ashkenazi means. It's D-day or rather DNA day for the Agro sisters. Alright, so let's get after it. -[ Charlsie ] First up, ancestry DNA, the biggest in the biz. Okay. -[ Charlsie ] Ready? 1-2-3. What?! [ Laughter ] 30-- - Russia?! -[ Charlsie ] 39% eastern Europe and Russia. No way. -[ Charlsie ] What does yours say? Did you get the exact same? -[ Charlsie ] Wow didn't expect that much eastern Europe. And it gets very specific with Italy. We did get Sicily. - Greece and Balkan. -[ Charlsie ] Greece and Balkan. - Yeah! Oh, cool. Okay. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] Familytree DNA throws us a few surprises. Wow. I'm 13% Middle Eastern. -[ Charlsie ] And then there's Iberia. This is neat though. That's Spain, that's Portugal. -[ Charlsie ] Yeah, I never would have guessed. And get this, according to MyHeritage... [ Music Playing ] -[ Charlsie ] ..we may not even be Italian. Holy. So... -[ Charlsie ] 60.7% Balkan. - Okay, click on them. -[ Charlsie ] 19% Greek. Oh, my gosh. -[ Charlsie ] Car, 3.4% Italian. It's actually saying you are 3.4% Italian. So are we a little bit or a lot Italian? Mostly East European or mostly Balkan? What's up with these results? I'm hoping Simone Gravel can explain. Hello, Dr. Gravel. - Hi, welcome to the lab. -[ Charlsie ] Charlsie. - Nice to meet you. -[ Charlsie ] Thank you. He is a population geneticist at McGill University in Montreal. Last time you saw your DNA, I'm guessing it was in a little tube like this. I spit in quite a few of those, yes. That's right. So, once you send those to the companies, they'll take your saliva. They clean it up. They will break down the cells so they can free the DNA, and then clean the DNA, break it into small pieces. And then they lay it out on one of these chips here. -[ Charlsie ] So, if we look at this chip, will my spit on this chip tell me that definitively I am Italian or definitively I am from wherever? No. There are a lot of steps that go in between. A lot of statistical interpretation and models and, you know, whose genome your genome is being compared to. -[ Charlsie ] Here's how it works. Our entire DNA is made up of 3 billion parts. Ancestry companies, though, look at less than 1% of those. About 700,000 sections where they know there are slight differences or variants among humans. Then, they compare the patterns of your differences to groups of people in their databases. And with the help of math, they try to figure out which groups you most likely belong to. It's not a hundred percent sure. So statistics tell us in our model, what's the best situation? It is a statistical guess. -[ Charlsie ] Yeah. - It's an informed guess. But it is never a hundred percent sure thing. -[ Charlsie ] Sure. Growing up, we were German. -[ Charlsie ] Not a sure thing? That sure isn't the message here. The big surprise was we're not German at all. 52% of my DNA comes from Scotland and Ireland. So, I traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. -[ Charlsie ] So you were shaking your head. This one drives me nuts. You know, and I see it all the time. Whether you want to wear lederhosen or something else is not tied to your DNA. -[ Charlsie ] Okay. Timothy Caulfield is a health policy professor who studies the ancestry business. It's an exciting story, right? It's about you, right?. I get why they're doing it. But is it really what's happening? Can they really be that accurate? I think they're selling something that isn't really supported by the science. With 23andme.com you can find out your percentages of DNA from 31 populations around the world. -[ Charlsie ] What do you think about the messages that are being sent to consumers? I think it's misleading. These companies are really trying to push the idea that this is scientific, right? They are using scientific language. They present it in a way that looks very sciency and precise. -[ Charlsie ] Caulfield says what people are really buying is entertainment. I think it's recreational science. They can have a little bit of fun with this stuff. Don't take it too seriously. Know that you are just getting some information that is an approximation of how your DNA compares to other people. It's not tracing back your heritage. -[ Charlsie ] Back in Montreal, Gravel agrees. Specific percentages should not be interpreted as, like, definitive like here's your percentage ancestry from this place. That's not that. -[ Charlsie ] No. The only one we can kind of interpret them like this are the continental level. -[ Charlsie ] Hmm. Really? The most certain thing they can tell you is which continent you're from? And get this, over at Living DNA in the fine print, the company admits some of its results are guesses. We highlight the sources of your ancestry which are likely to be present using our best guess of the exact source. The deeper I go, the more questions I have. And at 23andMe their guess work isn't apparent until we stumble upon this. Select confidence level. What? Why does it say 50%? Does that mean you're only 50% sure what you told me is right? Yeah. That's what it says. -[ Charlsie ] Is that what it means? Yeah, or at least 50%. That seems shocking. Only half sure. Yeah. -[ Charlsie ] Do you think that most people know that? No, no. I would like it if they presented their uncertainties more clearly. -[ Charlsie ] That's right. 50% confidence is 23andMe 's default setting. Check out what happens when we switch it to 90%, the most confident setting. 23andMe says we're mostly from somewhere in Europe. I would not take this as a science has spoken kind of thing. -[ Charlsie ] Forget all my Italian traditions and embrace the Balkan in me. - That's right. Exactly, right? I would not do that. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] This is your Marketplace. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] DNA ancestry tests, have you heard of these things? - Yes. I've seen a lot of deals around New Years or Christmas. Half off. -[ Charlsie ] I'm out on the town wondering what people know about DNA ancestry kits that are selling like crazy. I got it for my mom for fun just because she's so proud of her Irish heritage. Cheers. Don't touch it though. -[ Charlsie ] My twin and I are testing top five selling ancestry kits. Oh! -[ Charlsie ] And getting different results. What?! I think they're selling something that isn't really supported by the science. -[ Charlsie ] So you would think the test should be pretty accurate? Is it not? I think they must be pretty accurate or else they wouldn't be, like, getting all the hype that they do, I'm assuming, at least. I think they're true. I mean, I would trust them. We're engineering students. We think science, we think accuracy. Personally I would think they're accurate results. -[ Charlsie ] I took five tests. So did my sister. What would you expect the results to be? The same, identical. They should be the same. - The same. Identical. -[ Charlsie ] Should be identical, right? Should be identical. -[ Charlsie ] Now, it's time to take the twin test. A little chubby. That's me. -[ Charlsie ] Yeah, because I think that's me. Ready? 1-2-3. -[ Charlsie ] At 23andMe it's a promising start. Mine says 98.1% European and yours says 98.2. We're pretty close. -[ Charlsie ] Italian, 37.7. Ooh, 36.8. But then we begin growing apart. Only 28% Eastern European on this one. I'm only 24% Eastern European on this one. This one actually says Poland. -[ Charlsie ] Mine doesn't. Mine does. -[ Charlsie ] What? - Yeah. Look. Poland, possible match. -[ Charlsie ] Poland was not detected on mine. It specifically says not detected. And it gets weirder. Okay, this is hilarious, though, because, look, French and German. What? Oh, I don't have that. -[ Charlsie ] You don't have that at all? No. -[ Charlsie ] We are identical twins. But you would have to wonder with results like these. I'm 3.8% broadly European. I'm 12.7. -[ Charlsie ] Wow, that's a big difference. Yeah. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] How is this possible? In search of answers, I travel to new England to Yale University and meet up with Mark Gerstein and his international team of computational biologists. They study DNA and statistics. And they are stunned by our twin results. I have to say, that one really shocked us. I mean, we expected two identical twins to have the exact same ancestry and they should. The fact that they present different results for you and your sister I find very mystifying. We thought for sure that the differences had to do when one person spit, there was a contaminant in the sample. -[ Charlsie ] But then you looked at the raw data and you're saying you checked. - There's no difference. -[ Charlsie ] And there's no difference? No difference. It's shockingly similar. It's scarily the same. -[ Charlsie ] The Yale team downloaded and compared our DNA sections from all five companies. The agreement between you and your sister is 99.6%, 99.7% agreement. -[ Charlsie ] 23andMe's own data says we're statistically identical. It's the same for other companies. Why would Car be more eastern European than I would if our DNA is the same? She's not. I mean, there's nothing to say-- You and your twin sister have the same genetic ancestry, end of day. There's nothing to say. I mean, that's the truth. -[ Charlsie ] How can we explain this result? This must be purely in terms of the analysis that 23andMe does on the data. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] 23andMe isn't the only company with funny twin differences. Oh, great. Now you're Scottish and Irish. Alright, I'll give you that. -[ Charlsie ] Living DNA is serving up some stumpers too. Yours says south Italy. Mine says Tuscany. I just don't understand how you could have a Tuscany marker and I don't? -[ Charlsie ] I don't know. You have to come from one region in Italy. You cannot come from Tuscany and Sicily. It just doesn't work from that. I mean in this one, your sister comes from England. But you come from Scotland and then Ireland. -[ Charlsie ] But not everybody has us that far apart. [ ♪♪ ] MyHeritage, the company that says we barely have Italian ancestry gives us the closest twins results. So one of the good things about this company is that it's very consistent. -[ Charlsie ] Okay, can we go to ancestry? And Ancestry DNA and Family Tree are pretty consistent too. So, if the DNA technology says we're identical twins, why are some companies giving us different ancestry breakdowns? We spent many hours trying to understand why they might be different, but we cannot. I think that the clean thing to say is we don't know how they did the calculations but we strongly think that you and your sister should get the same report, end of day. -[ Charlsie ] When we asked 23andMe and Living DNA about our twin results, they say even tiny variations in our DNA can lead their formulas to give us different estimates because, remember, while companies all rely on the same DNA science, they have different formulas and different people in their database to determine which population group you belong to. And whatever your results... 11% Scandinavia, which I love. -[ Charlsie ] ..don't get too attached because they may change. There's been some changes. There's been changes in my results. I was 11% Scandinavian on my other test. Where did that 11% go? -[ Charlsie ] It happened to Carly and me too with ancestry DNA. Look, look, look, look, though, look. This was my first result, but it was updated to this when the database and math changed. Check out the differences. I think that's nuts how much it changed. -[ Charlsie ] The health policy prof knows all about it. I was once 100% Irish. I do love Guinness an awful lot. But now apparently I'm, like, 80%. -[ Charlsie ] Your results don't stay the same over time. Often they change as the companies update their databases. The commercials don't mention that. What do you think of that? They don't mention that, right? It actually does evolve which is a really telling point. It shows how imprecise it is and gives you a sense of the way the science actually works. -[ Charlsie ] People hear DNA and think science, legit, CSI, Law & Order, everyone going to jail or getting out of jail because of DNA. You're exactly right. And they're leveraging that excitement, the excitement that comes from the genuine stuff from science but also the excitement in pop culture to give it this veneer of legitimacy. And I think that's a little misleading. Charlsie: This is your<i> Marketplace.</i> ♪ ♪ -[ Charlsie ] My twin and I have learned that ancestry tests aren't really as advertised. Now, I'm more confused now than I was before we started. And I have more questions than I do answers about who I am, where I'm from, and what this all means. Look, I don't want to be a grump. If people find this fun, okay. But do not put too much weight on it. -[ Charlsie ] Yet, the industry is booming thanks to low prices, slick marketing, and our own curiosity. You can connect more deeply to the places of your past. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] The five companies in our test say they use rigorous science. They also acknowledge their ethnic breakdowns are statistical estimates. Family Tree DNA says figuring out ethnicity is not clear cut because it's kind of a science and an art. MyHeritage says its customers understand the results are estimates. I'm going to show you a commercial. Out on the street, do people really know that? Now that you have seen the advertisements and the some of the promises, what do you make about what you're actually getting, what they can tell you? There's no-- not a shred of doubt that what they're showing you is accurate. -[ Charlsie ] It's an estimate. Really? It's not accurate? -[ Charlsie ] Estimate. That's what experts tell us. Are you surprised? Yes, I kind of wanted to do it. I would like to assume there's a bit more evidence behind there when they are going through the DNA. More science behind it. -[ Charlsie ] You think there's some good science behind it? I'd like to believe, yes. -[ Charlsie ] Okay. I don't know. I'm kind of sad right now. Make a statement on how accurate they are. Those ads where they have the really small writing at the bottom of the screen, just write it there and say the results may vary depending on what test you take. I would like to see the messaging being more scientifically accurate, right? -[ Charlsie ] Mmm-hmm. If you could recreate them for these companies, what should the messaging be? What should they look like? Well, you know, I don't want to be a buzz kill. I think my ads would probably be a little bit boring. Push the idea this is recreational science. You know, let's see how your DNA compares to a bunch of other people's DNA. -[ Charlsie ] Okay. This isn't going to be terribly accurate or precise, but it's going to be fun. -[ Charlsie ] Caulfield says there's a subtle message in some of the marketing that he finds troubling. Yes, there are biological variations between populations. But there aren't these discrete biological borders. That's a dangerous message if you think about it in this world where we're worried about nationalism and tribalism. They're saying that there are biological families. That's scientifically wrong but also potentially socially problematic. -[ Charlsie ] And here's some science everyone agrees on. We humans share more than 99% of our DNA. We're a lot more alike than we are different. [ ♪♪ ] -[ Charlsie ] Have you done a DNA test? What did you think of your results? Take our Marketplace poll on Facebook. [ ♪♪ ]
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Channel: CBC News
Views: 4,031,303
Rating: 4.8044977 out of 5
Keywords: dna, dna ancestry, ancestry dna, ancestry kits, dna test, marketplace, cbc marketplace, dna twins, twins, indetical twins, twins test dna, cbc news, cbc
Id: Isa5c1p6aC0
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 21min 15sec (1275 seconds)
Published: Fri Jan 18 2019
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