Twilight Imperium vs Eclipse

i feel like this video has been a long time coming okay so in case you don't know um my name is jay parker and i started rtfm several years ago at this point because i wanted to teach twilight imperium uh third edition specifically not this fourth edition third edition's back there uh anyway so i taught twilight imperium and then it rdfm just kind of grew from there in a way that was unexpected but then i'm very proud of um of course i'm so connected in a lot of people's minds to twilight imperium which i don't mind at all i love twilight appearance it's one of my favorite games but it also means that i get to hear about it every time someone compares to out imperium to clips sometimes the comparisons are favorable sometimes not but what gets thrown around the most is this idea that eclipse is a euro ti so before we get into the rest of this video i want to cover the big question of is that even true no okay sure yes they are both similar and they have a similar setting at least uh it's space you're aliens on different sides of a big hexagonal map and there's something cool at the center of the galaxy yeah you settle planets you research technologies you get in cool space fights but all that stuff is just surface level really i mean when you sit down to actually play both of these games you very quickly realize that the experience is completely different so i don't say that eclipse is a euro ti not only because i think it's a little bit misleading but also because i think it does a disservice to eclipse this game should stand out on its own as a very good game it shouldn't have to be compared to ti for people to be interested that being said i'm about to compare the two games and while i will have a verdict at the end of it uh at the end of this video it's not like i'm trying to say that one of these games is empirically better than the other it's i'm mostly just talking about my personal preferences and how i come down on a few different points so let's get started i'm kicking things off with a bit of a softball here because there is no question that eclipse is easier to get to the table than twilight imperium uh it's less complicated than ti which means it's easier to teach you can play eclipse with just two players whereas twilight imperium you need at least three though let's be honest that number should really be four and it doesn't take literally all day to play now i know there are people out there who can play twilight imperium in six hours i am not one of them and eclipse still plays in half that time now i don't have a problem with the complexity player count or length of ti but because accessibility is important to me i have to give this one to eclipse okay this is going to be a little bit tougher because these two games have a very different design philosophy when it comes to combat because eclipse encourages fights by rewarding both the winner and the loser with victory points you're gonna see fights more often and earlier in the game than you do in ti where you often have long cold wars that culminate in a few big battles there's also a much bigger focus on customization of your ships in eclipse which is important because you only have three ships to work with toyota imperium has seven ships so the customization there is more on your fleet you can upgrade ships it's a simpler process but choosing which ships to upgrade is a very important decision so um combat in ti is also much more straightforward than it is in eclipse um and i think it's more streamlined too in my opinion um one of the few instances of a system eclipse being in my opinion a little too fiddly is the combat initiative and ordering uh system um i don't know i kind of just like antoine imperium where it's it's my ships and it's your ships and we're gonna duke it out and we'll see how it goes uh and yes there is a little bit more to it than that but that often is how it plays out and i don't mind that with how complex the rest of it is i like that ends up being kind of simple so it's a hard one and it's gonna come down to personal preference i lean towards twilight imperium because i like having fewer fights that are just more meaningful but i totally understand why the tactical smaller scale fights of eclipse are going to be more appealing for some this is another example of two completely different design philosophies in twilight imperium each planet gives you resources and or influence and you have to decide how you want to spend it resources get you ships and technologies uh influence can get you command tokens which are used for taking more actions fielding a bigger fleet or using different special actions but influence is also votes in the agenda phase so as you can see everything has more than one use and it's all connected eclipse is much more segmented with its economy you've got three different types of resources there's money science and materials money is actions but also lets you control more of the galaxy science gets you technology and materials uh get you ships the the strategy in that uh ends up being choosing which sectors you're going for and also deciding how long you want to stockpile something before you spend all your money so it's another toss up but i'm going to go for a clips on this one because while i really do like the interconnected economies of twilight imperium the directness of eclipse it's easier for me to latch onto plus i really like that if you can't afford something right away you can hold on to your money for a round or two and then maybe you will be able to afford it it's a lot harder to do that in ti in eclipse player interaction is mostly combat but also jockeying for control of the map uh grabbing important technologies before someone else gets them and occasionally engaging in a bit of diplomacy in twilight imperium everything you do is player interaction i'm exaggerating a little bit but not much the most i care about what other players are doing in eclipse is when i'm looking at their player board to see how strong they are because i maybe want to fight them in twitter imperium diplomacy is baked into the game like from the very beginning when you're just putting down map tiles you're already causing problems for other people and making pregame alliances and wars in your head during the game you can trade with other players make soft alliances and work together or not on political agendas every aspect of player interaction and eclipse happens in 12 imperium in a more meaningful way so for me this is an easy win for ti this is obviously going to be a bit subjective but i do think it's a fair assessment to say that there is more flavor in tuan imperium than eclipse i mean yes there is background information on the six different factions that you can play in eclipse but there's a deeper story on the 17 different factions that you can play antoine imperium and in a gameplay sense each of the factions in twilight imperium feels so distinct from each other that when they interact in game it makes for a completely different story every time you play the factions and clips in my opinion all kind of feel like variations on the standard human model with one exception i'd say the descendants of orion do feel pretty distinct from the others because they have the completely different rule of you can get along with alien npcs as opposed to fighting them but with that exception you know everything else just kind of feels very similar now just because eclipse has a milder flavor than ti doesn't necessarily mean that it's worse i totally get why toilet puree might be overpowering for some but if you can handle the spice i think there's a lot more to sink your teeth into here man i was hungry when i wrote this and now if i'm being honest but anyway uh yeah twilight imperium is the winner uh for me obviously but i do want to give a special shout out uh honorable mention to the different ship sculpts for every faction in eclipse the designers clearly put a lot of work into that and some of those uh ships look really really cool some of them don't and i'm gonna get more into that in a video next week so with all that in mind it may not be any big surprise but yes twilight imperium is the winner for me however as i've said from the very beginning these are two very different games and i would gladly play either of them eclipse for being such a tight economic war game twilight imperium for being a grand sprawling epic both of them have a space in my heart but that's not the end of the discussion what do you think i know you all got opinions and i want to hear about them in the comments below just you know be nice about it bye

Channel: RTFM

Views: 29,695

Rating: 4.9386387 out of 5

Keywords: board, game, rules, explanation, learn, to, play, Shea, Parker, RTFM, gaming, rtfm, rftmshow, show, tabletop, gamer, boardgame, games, tutorial, boardgames, how to play, eclipse, twilight imperium, ti, ti3, ti4, compare, comparison, versus, vs, which is better, euro

Id: mI4cy4Jlme4

Length: 8min 25sec (505 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 14 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/Papa_Nurgle_84]

Eclipse is the quick Snack If you Need Something NOW. TI is the Buffet you prepare for weeks.

[u/Resolute002]

Eclipse is a great game, the focus is on ships and combat. If you want something with a little more depth to the combat Eclipse is great for that.

[u/[deleted]]

I adore Eclipse. It's really not trying to do the same thing as TI, though, outside of hexagons in space. Room for both!

[u/chittypuns]

I love euros and dislike dice-based combat and luck. Ironically, this means that I greatly prefer TI4 to Eclipse 2. Yes, Eclipse has more resource management and the influence/action selection system is brilliant, but much more combat that I dislike and a lot more luck with respect to techs and what comes out on planets you explore. TI has less combat, but there is less luck in your expansion and technological progression. TI also has much more social interaction. If I want to play a euro, which I usually do, I'll play a euro, but if I want to play a big epic space game, it's TI every time. Oh. and if I want to play a shorter combat game, I prefer Blood Rage, Root, Kemet, etc.

[u/LeonAquilla]

My impression of Eclipse was that it was a better strategic combat simulation but had about 85% less flavor and less backstabbing than TI.

[u/Parzival1003]

Spoiler: TI wins.

Jk, haven't watched the video but I've played both games. I played first TI and then Eclipse. Eclipse has it's own strengths but neither got my gaming group nor me invested to play another game.

[u/LemonSorcerer]

While I don't agree with most of their review, I have to agree with SUSD regarding theme in Eclipse. Quinns says:

I think about people loving the Game of Thrones game for retelling the saga of the books. I hear that they love Twilight Imperium for the outrageous powers and frightening warsuns. They love Kemet for the giant plastic scorpion. Metaphorically speaking, Eclipse has no giant plastic scorpion. I mean, there's a giant danger egg but somebody just goes and kills it with lasers.

[u/suspect_b]

I wonder if TI will ever incorporate ship customization in its mechanics. I'm sure there's house rules for that but I'd hope for some actual base support.

[u/DerangedTyrion]

Have played both, and mostly the same group of friends has also. They agree, as me, that TI is a more complete and rewarding experience. The meta alone is just off the charts. Much more immersive.

Yes, it takes 6/8 hours. Sometimes 10.
But I asked to all my group if they felt like it was a lot of time and tiring, and they said that the overall experience surpasses the length issue, because its like you are always really into the game, constantly interacting, bickering, plotting, fighting, planning.
Which only happens in a very light way with Eclipse. Which we liked, but only to play something short, that easily could have been any other game.

And also a grand critique that I have for Eclipse (and we mostly agree) is the exploration system. The randomness of the exploration tokens (which bonuses vary a lot between each other) and the possibility that your economy could be seriously hindered because of the hex tiles that you get (having for example poor access to resources and being surrounded by ancients) was some kind of a bummer for us.