PROSECUTOR, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST, AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST, SUSAN DEL PERCIO. IN JUST A MINUTE, CHARLES, I'M GOING TO GET TO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, LET'S SAY ALL THE SALACIOUS DETAILS ABOUT HOW CATCH AND KILL WORKS, A GLAMOROUS WITNESS, ARGUABLY IN HOPE HICKS. THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE SAW LAST WEEK. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE DRY STUFF. RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> AND IN SOME WAYS, A BUNCH OF DOCUMENTS, IT'S HARD TO MAKE THAT TURN. WHAT WAS THE CONNECTION MADE HERE THAT MIGHT HAVE HELPED THE JURY GET WHERE THE PROSECUTION WANTS IT TO GO. >> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HELPS THE PROSECUTION IN TERMS OF THE JURY GRASPING THIS CASE, CHRIS, IS JUST NOW MAKING CLEAR THE UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE MONEY CAME FROM WITH RESPECT TO DONALD TRUMP AND HIS ORGANIZATION. AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT FOR ONE MAIN REASON, AND THE BIGGEST REASON IS WE'VE HEARD THE SUB TEXT THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE CASE, AND BEFORE IT THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN ARGUING, LOOK, I WAS PAYING MICHAEL COHEN BACK FOR LEGAL EXPENSES, AND THAT'S A BIG PREMISE OF WHERE THE DEFENSE BASED THEIR CASE, TO ESSENTIALLY ARGUE THE CASE, THIS IS REPAYMENT AROUND LEGAL EXPENSES AND REIMBURSEMENT. THAT ARGUMENT REALLY DOES NOW HAVE A LOT OF HOLES IN IT, BASE D OFF HOW THEY WERE PAID BY THE ORGANIZATION IF MICHAEL COHEN IS BEING REIMBURSED FOR LEGAL SERVICES. HE WASN'T. HE WAS BEING REIMBURSED BY DONALD TRUMP FROM WHAT RESEMBLED MORE OF A PERSONAL ACCOUNT, AND THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM FOR THE DEFENSE. SO THIS IS BEGINNING TO CRYSTALLIZE AROUND THE PROSECUTION'S THEORY OF THE CASE. AND AT THE SAME TIME, QUIETLY THE DEFENSE'S CASE IS CRUMBLING. FOR ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION, IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE THE MONEY CAME, IT UNDERCUTS THE DEFENSE'S PREMISE AROUND WHY DONALD TRUMP GAVE MICHAEL COHEN HIS MONEY BACK IN THE FIRST PLACE. >> AND NOT JUST THE $130,000, BUT A LITTLE EXTRA ADDED ON BECAUSE THERE WERE GOING TO BE TAX IMPLICATIONS. >> RIGHT. WITH ALL OF THESE AMOUNTS, AND IT'S NOTES NOW PUT INTO EVIDENCE, ALL OF THIS WAS, AS THEY PUT IT, GROSSED UP. IT MADE IT LOOK LIKE THESE WERE LEGAL FEES, BUT IT WAS ALL A DELIBERATE DISGUISE. AND HERE'S ANOTHER KEY THING HERE IS THAT THE TRUMP ATTORNEY HIMSELF BOVE ACTUALLY SLIPPED UP AS ANDREW WEISSMANN WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO POINT OUT FOLLOWING THIS WORD BY WORD DURING THE CASE THAT BOVE CHARACTERIZES THE PAYMENT TO COHEN AS A REIMBURSEMENT. AND McCONNEY AGREES WITH THAT. THAT WAS A HUGE SLIP UP BECAUSE THAT'S THEIR WHOLE DEFENSE IS THAT IT WASN'T A REIMBURSEMENT. IT WAS A LEGITIMATE PAYMENT FOR LEGAL FEES FOR SERVICES RENDERED. >> JOYCE, IF YOU'RE THE PROSECUTOR TAKING NOTES, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO USE IN YOUR CLOSING ARGUMENT, IS THAT ONE OF THE POINTS AT WHICH YOU POINT THE FINGER? >> YOU KNOW, IT ABSOLUTELY IS. BUT AS Y'ALL POINTED OUT, IT'S A SLIP OF THE TONGUE, AND PROSECUTORS WON'T FOCUS TOO HEAVILY ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THIS CASE ISN'T ABOUT ONE WITNESS OR ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE. IT'S ABOUT ALL OF THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS WAS NOT A PAYMENT FOR LEGAL FEES, THAT IT WAS COMPENSATION FOR THE PAYMENT THAT WAS MADE TO STORMY DANIELS AND THAT TRUMP WAS IN ON THE SCHEME. SO WE'LL SEE THE PROSECUTION LAYER EVIDENCE UPON EVIDENCE WHEN THEY CLOSE TO TELL THE JURY IT'S NOT A MISTAKE. IT'S NOT AN INNOCENT EXPLANATION. IT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. IT'S CRIMINAL CONDUCT. >> VAUGHN, McCONNEY IS KNOWN TO A LOT OF FOLKS, HE WAS AT BOTH OF THE PREVIOUS TRUMP ORG CIVIL TRIALS. HE'S SOMEONE WHO MADE CLEAR TODAY ON THE STAND HE REALLY LOVED WORKING FOR DONALD TRUMP. HE WAS THERE, I THINK, FOR 35 YEARS, AND ONLY LEFT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION WHEN ALL OF THESE LEGAL PROBLEMS JUST GOT TO BE TOO MUCH, RIGHT? >> Reporter: HE WAS EMOTIONAL ON THE STAND IN THE CIVIL FRAUD TRIAL. HE TESTIFIED IT WAS EMOTIONAL, AND THE REASON HE LEFT AFTER 35 YEARS, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, WAS HE WAS TIRED OF HAVING ROARED FOCUSED ON HIM AS IF HE WAS ENGAGED IN WRONG DOING. ULTIMATELY, HE WAS FOUND LIABLE FOR INSURANCE FRAUD, AND HE WAS BARRED BY JUDGE ENGORON FROM SERVING IN A LEADERSHIP CAPACITY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME FOR ANY CORPORATION HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND SO YET AGAIN, ONE YEAR LATER, HE'S BACK ON THE STAND AGAIN IN FRONT OF DONALD TRUMP. AND THE DIFFICULTY HERE FOR McCONNEY WAS THE EXTENT TO WHICH HE WAS WORKING AS ESSENTIALLY A MIDDLE MAN BETWEEN ALLEN WEISSELBERG, THE CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, WHO WE DO NOT EXPECT TO HEAR FROM AS A WITNESS,AS HE SERVED TIME IN RIKERSJAIL, AND THE EXTENT HE WAS TAKING ORDERS, AND MICHAEL COHEN GOT INVOICES TO THEM SO THEY COULD BE COMPENSATED WITH $3,500 CHECKS IN THE COURT OF 2017. WHEN YOU HIT AROUND THE CONVERSATION OF REIMBURSEMENT, HE DIDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE AND TESTIFY TODAY THAT HE WAS EVEN AWARE OF EXACTLY WHAT REIMBURSEMENT WAS FOR. AT THE SAME TIME, THE PROSECUTION, WITH HIM ON THE STAND, BROUGHT FORWARD THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REPORT THAT DONALD TRUMP FILED AND SIGNED HIMSELF IN 2018 THAT SHOWED WITHIN THAT VERY DOCUMENT, QUOTE, THE FOLLOWING. MR. COHEN SOUGHT REIMBURSEMENT OF THOSE EXPENSES AND MR. TRUMP FULLY REIMBURSED MR. COHEN IN 2017, SO FOR DONALD TRUMP AND THEIR DEFENSE TEAM, THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE DIFFICULTY HERE THAT THEY HAVE A CLOSE ALLY TO DONALD TRUMP, THE 35-YEAR EMPLOYEE TESTIFYING THAT HE KNEW IT WAS A REIMBURSEMENT AND THEY'RE DEALING WITH A DOCUMENT THAT DONALD TRUMP SIGNED CALLING IT A REIMBURSEMENT HERE. SO THIS IS DIFFICULT AS W
