The Killer Caretaker (True Crime Documentary) |Real Stories

[Music] on August the 4th 2002 to ten-year-old schoolgirls folly Wells and Jessica Chapman went missing in the small Cambridgeshire village so that's nice mystery candle in the wind it is that appraised value backwaters Ganges has taken you now - so the search for Halle Wells and Jessica Chapman has denied been extended to fields near their primary school the disappearance sparked the biggest manhunt britain had ever seen worldwide media attention and even national heroes addressed the nation asking for help to find the two little girls oh this forgiving just come from Britain held its breath praying for the safe return but two weeks later the news we had all been dreading he broke through poorly in Jessica's bodies have been found they had been brutally murdered then dumped in the countryside just miles from their homes and the man responsible for their murders he'd been in soem all along Ian Huntley knew his victims he worked at their school he had been helping the police in their searches and had even appeared on the national news appealing for information on the whereabouts of the two missing girls when you've been through ease as [Music] sorry murderers are masters of deceit public the sea and self-deceit they are great self denies as far as I'm concerned and I want the end until rot in hell Vardhan only was going to do that to those two girls I think I would have killed him I know it was terrible as we approach the 10th anniversary of Holly and Jessica's tragic deaths what have we really learned and how can we ever stop another Huntly striking again on Monday August the 5th 2002 reports that two little girls had gone missing in soem started hitting the wires in newsrooms around the country Sky News anchorman Jeremy Thompson remembers that morning and the events that followed we all woke up on that Monday morning to a story that was already starting to gather momentum and by the time I came in to do my program it was already the biggest story of the day 24 hours after the two girls had gone missing it was one of those long hot summer days when the perhaps wasn't a lot of other news around but it seemed to catch the imagination everybody was drawn to this story a photograph taken just an hour and a half before the girls went missing was beamed around the world and whilst the village community came together helping with the search the girls school became the police's HQ four days into the story and the girls were still missing the police seem to have no idea what was going on where they'd gone they just literally vanished into thin air we decided that it was such a big story by then four days in we should go up and be based up there and actually anchor our programs from so at the time the sheer scale of it was really unheard of it was the biggest police investigation the country had ever had it was one of the smallest police forces which was engaged in that investigation but they were collating material that was coming in from around the world for any Home Secretary actually learning of the disappearance or the likely tragedy to children is the worst possible moment we're right in the heart of the village of Somme here this is Red Lion square and we knew that the girls had set off from their home from a family barbeque popped over the road as a touch shot to get some sweets and then they talked to the caretaker in huntly you'd said that after he'd said cheerio they'd walked on up here play lane and probably ended up here in Red Lion Square very much the center of the village by the War Memorial and that's where the trail had very much gone cold with the world's media now camped out in the small came to town an increasing pressure building to it started to become clear that this case is too much for the small inexperienced force to cope with and crack started to appear in the investigation Detective Chief Inspector Martin Underhill was called in to help after his experience working on a notorious child abduction case of Sara Payne I can remember when I met the senior investigating officer his face was just an absolute picture of shock horror and I actually said Tim are you okay and he went now I don't just so swamped by this you know what what do I do panic started to set in as the case had not been given priority quick enough and the proper lines of Investigation had not been put in place when you're dealing with a child abduction we have what's called a gold now which is everything you capture in the first hour or the first few hours can actually dictate the whole of your inquiry the problem with SOAM is that those first few hours a lot there's no point in blaming individuals if they've not been properly trained and given the the background and understand the enormity of the issues although they had lost valuable time in the first stages of the case Cambridgeshire police were quick to roll out who was not responsible for the girl's disappearance when a child goes missing there are nine different scenarios as to what could have happened and about three of those scenarios involved the family one thing it became very clear very quickly is that the families the Chapman and Wales families were not involved you then realize that unless a terrible accidents happened that somebody else a third party has been involved in the disappearance abduction or possibly murder of this these children [Music] someone who was keen to help was a young man called Ian Huntley he was school caretaker and the boyfriend of the girl's favorite classroom assistant Maxine car he took the police to search the school and told them he was the last person to see Holly and Jessica about a week and a half into the the mystery of where these girls are gone it felt like the police inquiry had lost momentum we decided to go up and again base our programs then we had a whole day of broadcast and the ideas we thought well maybe we can sabri some life back into the inquiry draw the public attention back onto the story I tried to walk through the timeline of the last-known movements of the two girls when they left the family barbecue came over here to the little tuck shop in the Sports Hall the village college and then I thought we better talk to the last person to say they had seen her alive and that of course was in Huntley and I talked to him just outside his house in front of the village college there how do we know they were here at 6:15 well we have an eyewitness Ian Huntley he is a familiar figure evening in your the school caretaker the girls Jessica and Holly would know you and they saw you on the front doorstep what went on the guilt that I don't know the girls aisle stood on the front doorstep blooming my dog down she'd run away and come back a bit of a mess and they just came across an ask Thomas car was as she used to teach them the st. Andrews I just wish you weren't very good a shared and got the job and the justice police tell her that were very sorry and off the waltz in the direction of the the library over there in Huntley he was an odd Cove let's put it like that it didn't look like a villain as such I mean there are very few people who had murderer written across their forehead but uh you know there was something slightly odd about it but it seemed a plausible explanation that he gave watching Jeremy Thompson's interview in Huntley comes across as a normal person there's nothing to suggest in any way he's lying he looks to camera he's quite considered in what he talks about he seems to be quite empathic to what's going on quite emotional as well the reality is is it here's a man who's very accomplished at lying had been interviewed numerous times by the police in the past so knew exactly the procedures sadly offenders do that talking to cameras it's been shown several times and Huntley was no exception he enjoyed doing that he got a kick out of doing that and it was a piece of history being made Huntley like many offenders had put himself in the location he wanted to be in Ian Huntley clearly had a very devious sexual interest in young girls but young girls probably from around the ages of 10 up until the age of about 15 and 16 that was his predatory group of church children he went after and he was very clear about how he he approached those he would approach them through friends he would gain contact with them and then he would spend a lot of time with him he targeted a significant number of adult females as well whom he'd meet through nightclub scenarios so he was someone who was very much putting himself into a situation where he both offended against the young children and offended against the this is someone who used their power they use they he uses control and very much uses adult influence in order to commit his offenses against them and commit significant number of offences over a number of years but there was much more to Ian Huntley's shadowy past which portrayed a very different picture to the one he had just presented to the cameras before Ian Huntley and his girlfriend Maxine come to soem they lived in Humber sir I was neighbors RV Notley Maxine care for about 18 months before they moved to Salaam he just said he just stayed in his own house his job was work come home maybe go to the shops come home and that was that they didn't go anywhere for a young couple in Maxine didn't even go to the local pub Marissa is going back to skunk or to the flat where she lived next door to Huntley in car I first met enon he seems to be a very quiet chairman chappie go lucky and then over the months of knowing in he ended up in a very nasty violent person Huntley confided in Marisa and told her about the previous allegations which had led to the couple moving around the country please turned up one night and I said I went ranted that Ian and max in South size as you okay and this is when he all come up to me he was telling me he said I was with this girl she said I raped her and I didn't he cells locked up for a week they're having a go at me the women go up Maxine so we moved somewhere else so another young girl claimed that I supposed to have gone to raped her and God tube over there and I didn't and then says the police came then and then there's no me moved again then this is our wound it's gone thought I tradition for 12 hour night shifts it sits in the wingtip 6 o'clock in the morning I pulled up our ear on a push bike and he was underneath my stairs and he made me scared he asked me if I got two slices of bread and butter for him that's the first time I really felt scared of Ian Huntley when he was doing that to me it makes you wonder if he was watching me all the time when I was coming home at stupid hours in the morning from work it wasn't long to the hump his strange behavior turned to violence this time directed at Marissa's friend Maxine one night I went out with girls from work in two came home and I had max he'd screaming and he was kneeling shouting a shut up you can I use these were yeah he said she taught you slag he says you're gonna take this I don't want to eat and I'm not very well II and I'm bleedin eating I'm telling you not Maxine you're here too just you're here to serve me Maxine yeah tonight it is when you've been through eat sad song I couldn't take it anymore so I went downstairs and I watch into their house and I Ian and grub Maxine and took her to my house put her in my flat away from him and I said to Maxine you can't do this with the new young kid you miss your mum you miss your sisters just go just if you need a train fare I says with green speed from schools ups not a lot of money on the train I'll give you the train fare just go just I wanna be a tease it deserves that knowing that he could have caused most people I know and killed somebody else's children instead I'd be here I copped away [Music] Huntley took Maxine away from her friend moved again just ten miles away to break and changed his name to Nixon someone else that was too experienced the caretakers Jacqueline Hyde personality was Gary Jonah Joel McCloud Christmas Eve we was all getting ready for a Christmas drink as we were shutting the doors down and everybody was ready to go in huntly pulled up Orion Nixon sorry as we knew him then pulled up in a little red car desperate because the car was running quite badly and he needed to get to Cambridge and the look on his face he was so desperate that you couldn't not help him being as it was Christmas the car was done we got it running fine and I told him to come back and pay after Christmas because I needed to go so he was happy with that we shut the doors and that was it I didn't expect to see here no more till after Christmas and the night went on and it was getting on for about 12 o'clock at night so I decided I needed to be going and getting home Aylin left the the local pub and as I came out the pub I heard this horrific screaming as I came along here he was on this side she was on this I towards the door he had her in a headlock and he was punching her like that on the same place in her face all the time and between the time that I'd shouted he was still hitting her while I was shouting at him he was then shouting back at me telling me to mind my own business and go all the time this was happening he hadn't stopped on the punches he was still punching her she was still screaming and and there was nothing else I could do I had to go up the top of the stairs anyone would have gone up there I had to get up there but I wasn't ready for what happened at the top of the stairs I mean he literally threw her down like she was nothing and then came at me he pushed me so hard they'd actually hit the wall and with that he fell down and it was at that point when I saw his face I knew it was him the same guy that I had just done the car for and I couldn't believe I could not believe how he was at the workshop to how he was now you know and then Maxine turned on me you know look what you've done to him and I was in such a state of shock about that I thought you know maybe these two deserve each other standing here looking in just I don't know it makes me feel like knowing that those two young girls died you know and if you had the chance and if you could go back again I would have killed him I don't think I think I would have had to have done if you knew that you could have saved two young girls and let them live their life you know and and knowing what monster he was and how he was I would have killed him anybody would have done the same [Music] there is a justification in Ian and his head he'll go through a process whereby he justifies it to himself and he may be indeed talk to other people in justified we can see through his pattern of offending behavior and the way that he interacted with the young girls that on each and every occasion he was justified and he was justified because of course he wasn't ever prosecuted and therefore as a result of that it reinforced it in his distorted thinking that actually what he was doing was okay but more importantly what he was doing he was going to get away with murderers are masters of deceit public deceit and self-deceit they are great self denies so you can look at in the eye and they've already persuaded themselves that they didn't do it in 2001 Ian's changed his name back to Hampton and once again moved with Maxine to soem to be closer to his father leaving a history of violence and sexual abuse behind him Maxine got a job at the local school and Huntley soon followed working as a caretaker no one knew who was or had any knowledge of his past Ian Hundley had had on a number of occasions contact with the police the police had for a time kept a record of those contacts but those records have been deleted when you're dealing with someone involved in sexual offences against young women want one of the things you have to watch for as a developing pattern and behavior and that's why it's important to keep intelligence about someone like Huntley for maybe a bit longer than you would normally keep it to see whether this pattern develops because there was no record kept about Huntley we weren't able to see the developing pattern [Music] the list of mistakes made by Humberstone in Cajun police continued the caretakers should even suspect number one but what would hold the police was than occasionally it makes their investigations burn the biggest thing we learned Sara plain was clear the ground on your own feet in other words you started at the center and you work outwards but you must make sure your feet are clear before you start moving out and tragically that went horribly wrong with sewing because they set up their command center at the school which subsequently later Han Solo's to show was where the children's clothing was found where Huntley worked as the suspect and possibly where the children actually were as bodies some stage during the inquiry so they never really had a chance to clear the right ground under their feet it was also later to transpire that the school hadn't checked out hundreds references Maxine Carr had used her influence to get him a job there Huntley obviously had control over her but did Maxine know where Holly and Jessica were this is where we set up our main presentation unit this is where I did a lot of the live programs that day from the high street are very noisy little high street here in the heart of so this is where I interviewed Maxine car right here on the pavement on the High Street and what turned out to be a rather revealing interview this is something quite a kid for the rest of my life I think and it's what Holly gave me on the last day of term she was very very upset because I didn't get my job and that's kind of girl she was she was just lovely that's really very sweet as that and it was just afterwards when we came off air that one of the producers said you know how odd Maxine car seemed to be talking about the girls in the past tense and we all went yeah that's right we played back the interview we thought it was rather odd and we thought well we're going to talk to the police when they have a moment when we next see them and we'll talk through the interview but they would have seen them anyway live on air and I assume that was already starting to play into their thinking about the case she may well have been giving something away that she may well have done it without without any consciousness whatever it is she could clearly knew what had taken place to some degree and that those girls had visited the address the next morning the story became a runaway train really was extraordinary pace of widget it moved in the last few minutes a 28-year old man and a 25 year-old woman both from the same area have been spoken to by police officers and have agreed to give witness statements to us within seconds we knew that it was hunt being car around 11:30 that night I heard that they'd been let out I'd got Maxine cars phone number so I gave her a ring and said can I speak to you in huntly said yeah we're all right thanks we don't want to talk to you anymore but we're out and we're going to family's home later that night the police searched found burnt remains of Helene Jessica's clothes in the last few hours a 28 year old man and a 25 year old woman have been arrested then early on Saturday morning the police called a press conference and dramatically announced that two people had been arrested and it was clearly Huntley and Carr and this time they were being arrested in connection on suspicion of abducting and possibly murdering the two girls when 1314 days have passed you know those children on a life and so before the bodies were found I think everyone in the police force any right now these children were coming out and finally a story of two missing girls that everybody had had some hope of ending happily was brought to a a terrible conclusion it was suddenly a murder inquiry [Music] on the 17th of August 2002 reports started to come through that two bodies have been found in re F Lake neap in Suffolk I was invited to the scene pretty early on because this would be important in terms of determining what to do and how to do it and so fortunately the way the bodies were discovered the scene in its immediate surroundings were left largely undisturbed which was an advantage so for instance it was possible to see an offender path into the ditch where they were discovered the ditch was clearly not a very easy place to take forensic evidence from them the weather at the time couldn't really have been much worse than the weather since they disappeared it was very warm and on occasions it had been pretty damp this had resulted in a very rapid decomposition the approach then was to try and identify by some means who the bodies were because although there were two apparently small skeletonized bodies there clearly it was important to determine it was actually howleen Jessica and there was some items of jewelry that we were able to identify positively as belonging to them [Music] a year later on November the 3rd 2003 the prosecution opened its case at the Old Bailey now under way the trial would bring in a host of experts to prove Huntley was guilty the sheer scale of scientific investigation that was involved was unprecedented something the order of 20 different scientific disciplines became involved so just mastering the evidence and then putting it in a way that hopefully would make sense to people with no background in one or other of the disciplines involved while suspect rusting it's one of those cases where it simply wasn't possible to determine the cause of death so the cause of death for both of them was unless attained there would be a range of possibilities clearly they had to have died by a mechanism that didn't lead much in the way of skeletal injury as fix your death due to some form of neck compression are common and of course would leave signs that couldn't be detected in her in a decomposed state the pathology is was awful and for the families to hear about the discovery of their children and what was involved must have been horrendous for them and remained so I'm sure for those who are involved in that equally traumatic even as professionals it was apparent that the vegetation above the bodies had signs of quite localized for our damage so overhanging branches that sort of thing have being scorched and he was then apparent that some of the parts of the decomposing bodies had also been scorched and this clearly indicated that there'd been an attempt to set fathom it was no doubt done with some forensic awareness it was done with the intention perhaps of wanting to remove evidence the problem is and this is not uncommon in trying to get rid of evidence or trying to do a cleanup people actually produce much more damning evidence in doing that and the fact that they may places he had access to had the burnt clothing attributable to the girls I think with one of his head hairs on top of it in terms of sequence quite important turned out to be rather damning evidence of itself well he'd covered his tracks very carefully but what finally came in was material that showed that he his car the Fiesta had gone down what became known as the deposition site it was a highly unusual surface on that site various chalk deposits and we had there's analyzed and found pieces of those chalk deposits on the lower axles of the Ford Fiesta and so that ultimately proved that it was his car that had been down the drove and without an explaining how a Wyatt had been there the application was obvious and that I think is when he finally decided he had to concede that he was responsible for their killing in their possession but what about Maxine Carl did she know more than she had let on and would she stay loyal to the man that made her a victim for so long you can forget the very dramatic scenes in courtroom number one as Maxine Carr giving her evidence from the witness box broke down as she was questioned and said pointing at Ian Huntley across the courtroom I will not be blamed for what that thing in that box has done to me all those children for some of what she said it's difficult to say does one believe her or not because when she was being interviewed by the press during the course of the investigations much of what she said then was shown not to be accurate everything she had was rooted in the school and her relationship with Huntley and the home that came with that and say one begins to understand how decisions made perhaps in haste are regretted over time clearly at some stage she did start to be more truthful now whether that was the entire truth I don't know and we will never know but she clearly was more truthful at some stage what caused her to do that maybe she had some kind of conscious feelings about the whole situation maybe she felt this is absolutely horrendous or maybe she was just simply throwing out a lifeline for herself so I don't applaud it and I don't approve of it but one can perhaps begin to understand why somebody would preserve that which they thought they had once all the evidence was in and the prosecution had interviewed everyone Huntley had been in contact with everything pointed to one man by then I think with him conceding that he had killed the children but deciding to put forward an account to explain how those killings had come about which as far as he was concerned and involved in being guilty of their murder now with his back against the wall and without the support of his girlfriend Huntley decided to tell his version of events the defense scenario since that the girls turned up at Hundley's door with one of them complaining of a nosebleed they had then gone up to the bathroom to deal with the nosebleed and this is when I think credibility was stretched somehow one of the girls had fallen into a bath of water and drowned the other girl had screamed and been smothered in midair and in collapsed dead on the spot so within a short space of time we had two dead girls in Huntley's bathroom that you couldn't really smother someone in midday to how to force them up against something and smothering has a certain amount of intention attached to it I would suggest whatever actually caused the first one to be killed and they can't have been killed immediately together one was killed before the other I'm persuaded as I can be that that part of his account was true the killing of the first may not have been something he set out to achieve in itself the killing of the second of questionably that's the awful nature of what happened because the second one would have known the fate of the first already and that must have been horrendous do you think he meant to kill the girls unquestionably yeah on the 17th of December 2003 the jury entered the court with their verdict the jury come back and the first one hears of it is when the foreman stands up and announces the results so a moment of real drama and you just hope as a prosecutor that the verdict is the one that you've worked to achieve justice Moses the trial judge has made it and I'm hearing that Iran has been found guilty of count one the murder of Jessica Chapman Ian Huntley has been found guilty of the murder of Jessica Chapman and the murder of Polly Wales again by a majority verdict I'm told of eleven to one finally sentencing was given Huntley got two life sentences and call forty-two months she only served 21 I thought it's just getting more than what he got I'm sorry but my opinion is the life her life and I still think this day because he's so caught you will not ever find out what he did to them children he was that if because he's got one above everybody else and we don't believe the account that hunter gave there were undoubtedly elements of truth within it but one can only hope that at some point in time he will feel able to say what really happened and why I have nothing to serve out in huntly anything I could say would be unhelpful I took a view when I was home secretary and I do now that the murder and desperation of children's lives is that the most heinous crime of all and I've said heartfelt things in the past I mean as far as I'm concerned and I want in until a to rot in hell as the case drew to a close it was obvious that Holly and Jessica had been let down by the system and public and political outcomes formed something had to be done to stop the next Huntley and that's why I asked Michael Michaud now Lord Bechard to take a look at this so that we could get a proper examination of how we could learn the lessons and how we could proceed for the future to stop such an incident ever happening again we owed it to Ollie and Jessica's families Sir Michael Bouchard has the task of heading this inquiry announce the day after Ian Huntley was convicted of the murders of Halle Wells and Jessica Chapman what I was very surprised at almost immediately was to find out that we didn't have any routine electronic way of exchanging intelligence information between police forces the 43 police forces in the in the UK and that did shock me because I thought with I see even 10 years ago that that would have been in place the two most important areas that we reported upon were first of all that there should be a police in a tional database actually there was quite a sophisticated way of searching information about vehicles for example but not about people and that seemed to me to be entirely wrong so we said the first priority is to get a policeman from database in place the police national database was launched in 2011 this vital policing tool allows all 43 territorial forces around the country to store and share intelligence and when we rolled out the database for the first time the British Police Service could link up the intelligence that was held in individual systems in individual police forces in a way that it could be accessed directly by colleagues in other forces there was a major leap forward we often have been asked to consider what difference might the police national database have made to the sirum investigation I think everybody accepts that pnd wouldn't itself have stopped soem it might well have stopped he and Huntley from getting his job as a school caretaker we are now much better in dealing with pedophiles especially cross-county travelling pedophiles but sadly some had to happen before that changed but some critics say that holding information can be dangerous infringes on our human rights and as a society we are becoming far too reliant on stored data the problem with the criminal record system is that the first step what information he making available has become very blurred it's not just convictions for serious offenses that are being disclosed it's a whole host of things so unfortunately people are haunted by minor indiscretions in their teenage years 10 15 years later when they're applying for jobs despite the fact that they actually pose no real risk all people care about now is a bureaucratic process and making sure there is nothing whatsoever on your records check anybody who's involved in the business of holding data about citizens needs to be careful to make sure that you're holding it for a good reason that you're not just holding it just in case and the privacy implications of the police national database have been a central feature of the program right from the very beginning the other ongoing debate which Lord Bashar's inquiry raised was how do we decide who is fit to work with children recommendation of vetting and borrowing were that we should have a register which simply set out those people who weren't qualified able appropriate to work with with children it was an attempt to reduce something that was cleaner less fragmented less confused what we'd like to see is people actually using their own intelligence on their own judgement based on how they interact as to whether they can be trusted and that's what we should be doing and if you have a legitimate fear that someone does look uncomfortable then use the checks to give you that extra information this idea of the computer knowing everything about everyone and being able to make decisions is simply a very dangerous way of passing the buck and will ultimately not make children safer [Music] the vetting and borrowing system that had been set out by the Labour government was very clear and in fact had moved to a position where it was going to be very very effective the coalition but government come in they put a halt on that so they're going to change it massively my huge concern is that not only year down the road we still don't know what those changes will be they haven't been brought into place so we're in a limbo and more so it's about money the government have changed that this vetting and borrowing because of money and also because of those individuals out there who have come out and said this impedes my freedom well I'm sorry if it takes ten minutes to fill out a form but it means a child is safe then those ten minutes are worth doing and anybody who can stand there and say I shouldn't be checked I'll ask you a question why well be shod recommended a scheme for vetting and barring which would have incorporated nine million people in being registered we didn't think that was the best way of safeguarding children because in a way by government taking the responsibility see you know doing this for employers if you like or organisations it kind of alleviated the responsibility what I'm looking for is this issue of balance I want it to be proportionate I'm prepared to accept that we maybe went too far but I think we must go too far the other way there are a lot of people out there who should not be working with children in any circumstances and I think as a society we've got to take action to make sure they don't work with children actually person on the spot needs to be doing their job properly needs to take responsibility you know whole range of things that they do like safe recruiting they just accept a piece of paper from someone saying they're wonderful employee and so you should employ them check their references talk to the person ask if there's any concerns you're doing your job properly if you are in charge and have responsibility for safeguarding children then you have to take that on and watch and be concerned about all the employments but the government's and it has a very little power because the people doing these checks are local councils are sports clubs and they do not want to be in a situation of hiring somebody who goes on to commit another sower so even though the government has recognized the systems out of control the people who are actually implementing it don't want to take the risk on their reputation of not doing the checks so we're at an impasse unfortunately government has got to realize that actually they are in a position to safeguard children and by making these changes they are putting children at risk less than two years after the murder of the two little girls the village college wanted the house that Hunter had lived in the caretakers house demolished but not just taken down they had it reduced to rubble a dust and disposed of at a secret location so that the place couldn't become a shrine mementos couldn't be sold off for years of evil crimes like this so all trace of the crime itself was removed from the face of syrup but it's a thing that so will never forget the banks in the summer of 2002 changed the way Brittany's police and the way we protect our children but as we approach the 10th anniversary qualia Jessica's tragic deaths what should we remember all these extraordinary cases and there are not many of them but they all bring something different to the public domain and they raise conscience and amongst members of the public and we have to look at ourselves individually a little more carefully some had to happen it needed something like so to make us realize and kickstart us into dealing with that loophole we're a traveling pedophile was escaping notice and was going onto the motor hopefully most children this country now are safer and are protected so has made society in this country better and I hope Jessica and Holly will always remember for that we are in grave danger of going back before soem if this betting and bearing system does not go ahead and if we get into that situation we put in children at serious risk and will question whether or not we actually learn very much from so it was a story that touched and terrified every parent in the land that was one of the most telling things one of the things that sticks in my mind that maybe things will never be quite the same again after the sir murder case whatever the pressures from outside whatever they if you like the fashions and trends between civil liberties and child protection we always should be on the side of the child [Music]

Channel: Real Stories

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Id: OF6z5DTeSDQ

Length: 45min 44sec (2744 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 29 2016