Trope Talk: Superpowered Evil Sides

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CĂş Chulainns warp spasm totally counts, right?

👍︎︎ 7 👤︎︎ u/PastyMan575 📅︎︎ Oct 23 2020 đź—«︎ replies

I love this trope.

👍︎︎ 5 👤︎︎ u/RedditerOfThings 📅︎︎ Oct 23 2020 đź—«︎ replies

One aspect that I think Red didn't go into as deep was the extent that some stories will let a hero get away with a dodgy choice or unhelpful behavior because "oh that wasn't ME, that was my super-evil side that I have no control over!"

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/SunsBreak 📅︎︎ Oct 24 2020 đź—«︎ replies

The only issue I see is how prevalent this trope is with post fight handwaving.

Often in order to move the story they avoid the character development.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/[deleted] 📅︎︎ Oct 24 2020 đź—«︎ replies

I’ve been doing something like this with my DnD character Grey. He’s a fighter who was unable to use magic his whole life despite getting training from the best wizard in the kingdom. Time goes on, the kingdoms gets destroyed, he escapes and feels like a failure because he couldn’t save his family. Early in his adventures the party fights a shadow demon and he injects himself with a single drop of blood in an attempt to gain power (I multi classed into Shadow Sorcerer). After a bit of time the fragment of the demon, Sliver, starts to manifest. It starts small by tinkering with Grey’s weapons while he’s asleep. After a time Sliver took controle and tried to attack a party member.

Now Grey and Sliver have a tenuous agreement that Grey will provide Sliver with magic items/souls for sustenance and Sliver will only take over one night a week to tinker with weapons.

There is also the conflict and mistrust between Grey and the party cleric Fastolf. His player has brought up the banishment and remove cures spells but it hasn’t come up in gam yet. Our DM has been vague about what either of those might do.

TL/DR: Character willingly takes on a Super Powered Evil Side to gain said power with the intent of getting revenge gets more than they bargained for when SPES asserts dominance. Will the character keep SEPS, find a balance, try to get rid of it, dominate it or loose himself to it?

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/Ozgand 📅︎︎ Oct 25 2020 đź—«︎ replies
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This video was sponsored by Campfire Blaze.   Or maybe it's Campfire Blaze's  edgy pallet-swapped alter ego! This may come as a shock to many of you…… but I watched a lot of anime in high school. I know, I know. Please withhold all affronted gasps til the end. But it’s true! And if there’s one trope anime loves more than giant swords, uncosplayable hairstyles, and underage girls with quintuple-G-cups, it’s superpowered evil sides. It’s gotten a little less popular since the rise of what I like to call the soft boi shonen anime, the subgenre pioneered by My Hero Academia where the shonen protagonist is also a total soft boi, but for a while there, you couldn’t turn around without smacking into an anime with a superpowered evil side in it. The concept of the superpowered evil side is simple. Our protagonist is generally a pretty nice guy - standard hero, maybe a little bit cranky but overall reliably protagonist-y. But it’s also standard shonen anime law that the hero probably gets their ass kicked on the regular, since every villain needs to win at least one establishing fight to prove that they are indeed a Bad Enough Dude To Threaten The Protagonist. Emotion powerups and friendship speeches can only take your hero so far - sometimes they need a serious boost to get through a particularly bombastic anime fight scene. And this  is where the superpowered  evil side comes in. The protagonist develops a conveniently-timed powerup just in time to save their life, but unlike your garden variety powerups, this one  comes with a personality  shift. The hero is more  aggressive, more malicious, more unhinged; sometimes they might even seem like a completely different person - they go from being on the ropes to having the bad guy on the ropes, and they usually almost seem to be reveling in it. Our hero is winning, sure - but they aren’t really themselves, and they could even end up being more dangerous to the other heroes than the bad guy they’re currently using as a kickball. This is the superpowered evil side: it’s superpowered, it’s evil. Exactly what it says on the tin, and satisfaction guaranteed. The superpowered evil side is very useful for two reasons: one, the superpowered part. Powerups are very convenient because they let your hero win, and since most shonen anime fights are basically just mashing two action figures together until one of them buckles or a limb drops off, a powerup is a nice way to escalate the mashing with some loud glowy auras and a lot more environmental damage. The other useful feature is, unsurprisingly, the evilness. See, this helps counter the inherent busted-ness of the powerup. Because having a powerup in reserve usually totally unbalances a good hero-villain matchup, most powerups come with some kind of price to still give the bad guy a chance post-powerup - maybe the hero can’t do it on command, or it makes the hero weaker in some other way, or it’s got some kind of time limit before it becomes too physically taxing to sustain, or it completely debilitates them afterwards so they’ll be totally helpless if they don’t win - but with the superpowered evil side, the trade-off is that the hero straight-up becomes evil. This lets the powerup part be as strong as the writer needs it to be, because the hero can’t just use it willy-nilly, since they’ll fully lose control and potentially end up becoming more of a problem than the original problem. Now, the exact nature of the superpowered evil side varies a lot from story to story. While they’re all both superpowered and evil, those can mean a lot of different things. For instance, some superpowered evil sides are pretty reliable and consistent and don’t change much with repeated use, but a lot of them aren’t, and instead grow stronger every time they’re used. While this would be pretty broken for any other powerup, the evilness helps balance this out by also getting stronger every time. The risk/reward ratio stays pretty much constant as the risk of getting stuck all evil and stuff rises alongside the reward of kicking the bad guy’s butt. Two notable classic Shonen anime leaned on this option - first Inuyasha, and then Bleach. Both featured protagonists whose superpowered evil side was almost its own split personality that got stronger and stronger every time the hero lost control. In Inuyasha’s case, when the half-demon protagonist’s magic sword is broken in the creatively-titled episode “Tetsusaiga Breaks”, it turns out it was actually working as a restraining bolt to keep his powerful demon blood in check, and with it destroyed, he gets way the hell stronger and scarier and unleashes a very cathartically satisfying can of whoop-ass on the demon who’d been wiping the floor with him for the last fifteen minutes. The problem is, the demon blood is actually corruptive - like it’s physically too strong for his human side, and every time he transforms, it takes another nibble out of his human soul. This isn’t just flavor text - each time he transforms, he’s noticeably more volatile, even losing the ability to speak after a while. It basically turns into a chronic medical condition that the bad guys start leveraging to screw with the heroes, since after a while, a sufficiently evil vibe in the area is enough to overwhelm the sword’s power and force him to transform, turning him into a mindless, feral living weapon against  his friends. Very dramatic,  very cool! Unsurprisingly it’s weak to the power of love and hugs, but Inuyasha’s a romance first and a shonen anime second, so that’s not really a surprise. Meanwhile in the case of Bleach, Ichigo’s “hollow” side is introduced fairly early on as a super-strong, super-violent maniacal asshole with a really sweet-looking facemask who mostly just shows up to effortlessly curbstomp the bad guy until Ichigo musters enough heroic willpower to dramatically rip his mask off and go back to getting his butt kicked. He gets progressively stronger and harder to suppress as the story progresses - although after a fairly standard-issue battle in the center of the mind, the hollow side chills out enough to turn into a non-evil powerup, with one minor relapse later  on where a particularly  dramatic near-death experience turns him into a crazy strong superpowered evil side for a little while. But it’s actually not uncommon for superpowered evil sides to lose the evil over time! Lots of people forget this thanks to pop culture osmosis and narrative drift, but the first time Dragon Ball Z showed us a super-saiyan, it was pretty solidly a superpowered evil side. When Goku first transforms during the Frieza arc, it’s in a moment of uncharacteristic pure rage, and the first sign that he’s not exactly himself is that he doesn’t seem to be having a good time fighting. This is Goku we’re talking about. He’s got, like, two braincells, and one of them spends all its time pinging between the three receptors for Food, Fighting and Friendship. But no, this Goku is silent, stoic, and completely unfazed by all of Frieza’s sassing. He even toys with Frieza, who up to this point has spent several episodes kicking the ever-loving crap out of him, his friends and his family. The fight suddenly goes from a desperate uphill struggle just to survive to being completely unbalanced in the other direction. Even the narrator calls it an “unsettling transformation”, and the peanut gallery wastes no time in pointing out that Goku is really not acting like himself, and that this fun-loving goober who can’t help but enjoy himself even when fighting for his life and the survival of his planet is now completely focused on making Frieza suffer for killing his friend. It was cool as hell, and a fantastic payoff for the season’s buildup of this mysterious, alien prophecy of an ultimate deadly Saiyan warrior and the only thing frieza truly feared. And then, well, the Android saga starts, we meet Trunks minute one, and suddenly Super Saiyan is the powerup du jour - everyone and their six-year-old can do it by the end of the arc with zero personality shift or negative consequences. It’s explained as basically just being a matter of training - once you get used to it, it stops being all evil and stuff - but it also strips away all the coolness factor and officially heralds DBZ’s long, slow, painful slide into power creep, where every new transformation is essentially one use only before it becomes outstripped by the next villain and rendered  completely pointless.  Now, Power Creep is a broader trope that can affects anything with an escalating power level - while it’s mostly discussed in context of anime, its original use was in games, where it was pretty common for the average strength of the stuff in the game to go up over time, with every new release being incrementally stronger than the previous ones. This helped appeal to the people buying those new releases, but had the side effect of gradually rendering older game features weaker by comparison, and eventually obsolete. For an example that’s a game and a show, Yugioh - or Duel Monsters - has some serious power creep. In its first appearances, the coolest thing you could do in a game was draw the strongest monster and summon it. Then it was fuse monsters together to make an even STRONGER monster. Then after a while it turned into summon the coolest legendary god card, and now it’s, like… chain fourteen highly specific monster and spell effects to instantly summon your apex monster on the first turn and win. Pretty sure that kind of deck-building never made it into the anime, cuz while it’s basically a guaranteed win, it’s also super boring to watch. And that’s actually the biggest problem with power creep - boredom. Which is ironic, because it only exists to combat boredom. Games and shows alike thrive on dropping in cool new stuff for the audience to keep them interested, and sometimes they drop in cool new stuff that’s so cool, or at least strong, that it retroactively invalidates all the previous cool stuff. And that loops back around to being not cool, because it makes all the earlier stuff feel pointless. Like… imagine your hero is questing for Excalibur, right? This amazing, legendary blade wielded by King Arthur Pendragon, destined only for the hand of its chosen and the One True King. And after half a season of trials and tribulations and proving themselves, the hero finally gets excalibur, proves themselves worthy, draws the sword from the stone, gets a sweet-looking makeover and turns the tables on the season antagonist in one glorious stroke. And then next season they’re like “hey, uh, bad news - this new bad guy put up his Excalibur-Proof Shield, so now you need to get, uhhhh… Caliburn. It’s… like Excalibur…… but WAY cooler. And maybe just to be sure you’re gonna do it, we’re - we’re gonna break excalibur. Just so, you know, you don’t get TOO comfortable. But don’t worry! Caliburn is JUST as cool! We promise!” But it’s not just as cool. Because even if the sword is new, the story isn’t. The first time your hero proves themself worthy and gets an amazing magical weapon, we’re all very impressed. The second time, we’re a lot less impressed. You’d think two magic swords would be twice as cool, but in practice you’re just telling us we shouldn’t have valued that first one so much. Why get invested in a powerup if we know the story is gonna make it obsolete in one fight? Power creep afflicts a lot of powerups, but superpowered evil sides are a lot less vulnerable to it than more benevolent powerups, since a normal powerup usually gets nerfed after one use so it doesn’t become the Instant Win Button, but the inherent tradeoff of the superpowered evil side means you can use it for drama more than once before putting it on the shelf. Plus, power creep exists to combat boredom and stagnation, but the drama inherent in the evilness can do that pretty well on its own. The Superpowered Evil Side popping up doesn’t mean the hero’s gonna win and everything’ll be fine - it just means we’ve swapped out one problem for  another problem that  significantly more complicated to fix. But it’s still not immune to power creep, and can sometimes end up disappointingly nerfed by it. After all, if the superpowered part loses its luster, then the risk/reward ratio skyrockets, since then you’re just… turning evil for no reason, which is more of a danger than a complex narrative tradeoff. Because of this, power-creep-weakened superpowered evil sides usually lose either the superpower or the evil after a while - sometimes both, leading to them just… fully losing all narrative relevance and oomph. Though they do sometimes get replaced by new superpowered evil sides afterwards! Jumping back to dragonball again, in the original series, goku  had another superpowered  evil side in the form of the Oozaru - if he looked at the moon he’d turn into a rampaging giant monkey. This happened enough times to go from “cataclysmically dangerous” to “ah jeez, not again” and eventually they just… stopped having his tail grow back so they wouldn’t need to remember that plot point. Then when Super Saiyan became old hat in the Cell Saga, they started incrementing the numbers and gave Gohan a superpowered evil side when he went super-saiyan nuclear to beat Cell. This was a very cool, iconic moment everybody remembers and loves, and then they never let Gohan do anything cool again. See, there’s this unspoken - or possibly spoken and I just haven’t been paying attention - rule in fighting anime that no two fights can ever be the same. If the first fight had your hero on the ropes before they unleashed their superpowered evil side and wiped the floor with the enemy, then the next fight cannot go the same way. Maybe they do the superpowered evil side, but oh no, this time it’s too evil and they have to put it back! Or the power-creep solution,  they do the superpowered  evil side thing, but this villain is just too strong and the superpowers are useless against them! Or the villain has some kind of control over the superpowered evil side, and using it against them is exactly what they want! Or, in more boring cases, they just wait an unreasonably long time before activating the superpowered evil side. Etcetera etcetera. There’s usually a watsonian reason the same trick can never work more than once, but the real reason is just that… well… the writer thinks that’d be boring. And… most of the time they're right! Jumping back to Bleach real quick, there was a  fairly early appearance of the Superpowered Evil   Side that was very dramatic where it popped up  in the middle of a very dramatic fight and then   Ichigo heroically fought it off and apologized  to his enemy for the interruption in… possibly   the funniest moment in the show, and then in a  FILLER arc like thirty episodes later the EXACT   SAME THING happened beat for beat. It even  starts with him catching the bad guy's sword   and then looking up all "ohhh look I'm evil now  lookit my mask" - and the number of people who   like Bleach and really like that first moment but  felt it got really cheap because then it happened   exactly the same again but WORSE… kinda  demonstrates that this trope really does   need to be mixed up on every use  or it just ends up getting tired. Anyway, most of the actual  interesting development comes from the other side of the trope - the evil bit. Because a superpowered evil side can be evil in a lot of different ways. Some of them are functionally split personalities that are internally at war with the protagonist, and resolving that might involve some kind of character development or personal growth, or just a symbolic battle in the center of the mind where they have  a swordfight or something.  These split personalities also sometimes get up to stuff that the main personality doesn’t know about - it was actually surprisingly common for a while to give supervillains innocent alter egos who literally didn’t know about their own supervillainy. It’s also surprisingly common for characters with amnesia to end up with their original memories and personality serving as a superpowered evil side - where they find out they used to be really badass but also totally morally bankrupt and end up struggling with basically their original version for control. Some stories take this split to its logical conclusion and make the superpowered evil side some kind of totally separate possessing entity that basically has a timeshare on the hero’s brain, and the hero gets a sweet powerup at the expense of having to try and kick them out when they start making themselves at home in their brain. But some of these superpowered evil sides are more like… just the regular character, but way angrier and with zero inhibitions. These versions will usually share the character’s most basic priorities - a love interest showing up might dissuade them from further evil, for instance - but the tradeoff is any kind of carefully-curated personal code or whatever that might matter to the character probably goes straight out the window.  If your happy-go-lucky  hero very specifically doesn’t kill, they might have a doozy of a  time restraining themselves  when the powerup fairy visits and switches that off for the day - and even if the character doesn’t have any, like, deeply-held personal creeds for the superpowered evil side to ignore, an otherwise chill and usually nice hero can still end up dishing out a startling amount of damage when they drop the chill- and nice-ness for a minute. And some superpowered evil sides are basically feral - instead of being “the character, but meaner”, it’s more like “the character’s not home right now, can their primal instincts take a message?” This is, like, the werewolf approach to the superpowered evil side - kind of a “beast within” scenario. In some cases, a split-personality superpowered evil side might temporarily get repurposes as one of these if the hero nearly dies, and they transform as a survival mechanism. Once again, the most popular fix for this is the power of love. A conveniently-placed love interest can often convince the rampaging protagonist to chill out and calm down. And the drama of a completely uncontrollable rampaging force of nature turning back into a good guy to avoid hurting their one true love is the kind of narrative play that really gets the shippers out in force. It’s good for drama, is what I’m saying. One popular non-anime example of a superpowered evil side is a spider-man classic you’re probably familiar with, the venom symbiote. What Peter initially thinks is just a fancy black suit with infinite  webbing and a quick-change  feature turns out to actually be a sentient alien parasite influencing his personality for evil. While the symbiote is a character in their own right and has been portrayed many different ways across different media, the symbiote is usually at least a little bit evil, though how that manifests varies a lot from story to story. Usually the way the story goes is the symbiote starts off working as a superpowered evil side for generally heroic nice dude Peter Parker before escalating in villainy and getting kicked out of his brain in a dramatic battle in the center of the mind and slinking off to bond with Peter’s estranged former friend Eddie Brock, becoming the supervillain Venom. In the legendary work of cinema that is Spider-Man 3, the symbiote initially functions as a type 2 superpowered evil side, lowering Peter’s inhibitions and making him angrier and more of a dick, although this Peter is also a huge dork so the symbiote just kinda makes him an even bigger dork. But in some versions, like the one in Spectacular Spider-Man, it’s more of a type one, where the symbiote starts off pretty much mindless but develops a personality of its own and starts acting out more and more, leading to one very noteworthy fight where Spider-Man takes out the entire sinister six with terrifying efficiency, all while completely silent - and then we find out that Peter was actually asleep the whole time,  and the symbiote took his  body out for a crimefighting joyride. That’s spooky! Peter no likey! Now while it may seem a bit redundant, some villains actually have superpowered evil sides. In rare cases, the villain is usually actually pretty nice, maybe even heroic - but right now the superpowered evil side is in charge, and that’s the one you gotta watch out for. But sometimes this is more like a second form in a boss fight - the relatively manageable bad guy you were dealing with just whipped out a backup personality with a totally different moveset and now you’re in a world of trouble. So this trope has a few corollary tropes that show up wherever it does. By far the most relevant one is fighting from the inside, a catch-all trope for a character under some kind of control using heroic willpower to resist it. This can be subtle, like a Single Dramatic Tear falling from their otherwise dispassionate face - or it can be really unsubtle, which usually means a lot of  yelling and head-clutching.  Hell, sometimes we actually zoom into their head to see them symbolically fighting the superpowered evil side for control - typically known as a battle in the center of the mind. This gets used with every Superpowered Evil Side variant, but it sees the most mileage with the Split Personality and the Feral variants, since those are the ones where you can most easily make the argument that the hero is trapped in their own mind. If nothing seems to be working to snap them out of it, that usually just means a love interest is about to tearfully drop a love confession that the hero may or may not remember when they instantly snap out of it. Remember, it’s all about the drama. <aside> Just once I wanna see the hero’s non-love-interest bestie who just got their ass kicked to show how Out Of Control they are get really cranky that their desperate plea to their humanity wasn’t enough to get them to stop being evil. Anyway, sometimes the fighting from the inside thing gets some outside help with the good old-fashioned “I know you’re in there somewhere” fight, where the other heroes kick the crap out of the superpowered evil side until it goes away. This is harder than most “I know you’re in there somewhere” fights because the superpowered evil side is still superpowered, and typically strong enough to take out whatever bad guy was kicking the good guys around before, so it might end up being a bit more of a… token effort to guilt the currently-evil character into fighting from the inside even harder. Or sometimes a more noble antagonist might show  up and be like "ahh, the hero is not themselves"   and then kick their ass until they stop and then  leave. It's pretty funny whenever that happens. And, for the benefit of the audience, sometimes we get an actual look inside said character’s head and get to see some  mildly symbolic representation  of their inner turmoil. This is usually pretty… hamfisted. Like, we’re not exactly gonna be surprised to see our hero fighting a scary pallet-swapped version of themselves  or some kind of beast. Still,  this whole trope is built on drama, and nothing’s better for drama than just physically showing us someone’s deep-seated internal struggle in a literal, visual representation. No… no, wait, I read that wrong. Plenty of things are better for drama than that. But there’s nothing wrong with a little hamfisted-ness once in a while. Anyway! The main difficulty with this trope is power creep, but more than that, there are two contrasting problems that can really hurt this trope - the Superpowered Evil Side can just get tired from repeated use, but it can also become unreliable or boring if it’s constantly being reworked or discarded in favor of some new powerup. The overuse problem is obvious - the first time your hero heroically fights off their superpowered evil side and trades the powerup for keeping their humanity, that’s really cool! But the second time it plays out the exact same way, it’s a lot less cool. This trope, like all tropes, is a tool, and if you use it the exact same way twice, it can lose the impact. But that doesn’t mean it needs to be changed every  time! Lots of writers keep  evolving the superpowered evil side so it never manifests the same way twice, which is theoretically workable, but can also result in a Super Saiyan scenario, where it just gets totally nerfed after its debut and loses all potential  drama and future exploration.  The superpowered evil side CAN evolve over time - but it can also just be a consistent character trait like any other ability or flaw. Like any character trait, while it can change and develop, it doesn’t need to in order to keep the character interesting - we just need to see how it works in different situations. Like, maybe we’ve seen how it works in a straight fight - it takes over, kicks ass, then goes away again. But what about if the heroes are trapped, and suddenly the superpowered evil side kicks in from the stress, and now the heroes are locked in with it? That’s a whole different ball game! Or this new villain wants to draw out the superpowered evil side, so it’s not the automatic win condition for the fight! There’s all kinds of ways to play with this trope without having to constantly upgrade or rework it that don’t involve dulling it with repeated use. It’s a difficult balance to strike, but when done right, it can make for some really fun character drama. So… yeah! And thanks again to Campfire Blaze for  sponsoring this video! Campfire Blaze is   a browser-based tool suite designed to help you  keep your writing organized all in one place.   Gone are the days of thumbtacks, red string and  conspiracy boards connecting notes you wrote on   cocktail napkins. It’s the future, baby! 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Channel: Overly Sarcastic Productions
Views: 1,169,965
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: Funny, Summary, OSP, Overly Sarcastic Productions, Analysis, Literary Analysis, Myths, Legends, Classics, Literature, Stories, Storytelling, History, tropes, trope talk, tvtropes, super-powered evil side, alter ego, jekyll and hyde, inuyasha, bleach, spider-man, venom
Id: pYw4Tt3Kjs8
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Length: 19min 36sec (1176 seconds)
Published: Fri Oct 23 2020
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