This ONE CHANGE Could SAVE WoW PvP ... (Bajheera Reacts)

oh God I I just you just know bro it's like if you ever tried to play a cter and you're trying to cast on a Demon Hunter you just know it feels terrible like that never feels good let's go have a little look at the second part of this video that we watched before up here back back in my spot so we watched the first part of the discussion of this and it was hilarious and I enjoyed it a lot and people seem to enjoy it quite a bit too on YouTube so I think what we'll do is we'll dive back into this take a little Gander at uh what's going on with with uh PVP and whether it's dead or not which the ultimate conclusion that I have about wow PVP before I go into the video is that if it is of course not dead and the people who working who are working on it at blizzard are absolutely still passionate about PVP they care about PVP they want PVP to succeed and I feel like they've got like some some fresh peeps in there who are working on stuff and trying to make it cool and it's a it's a continuous thing with a game that's as old as wow is how do you get new people involved and how do you keep the people who have been involved for so long to continue to be excited about it and new content is great I think most of what uh we talked about last time was various barriers to entry or barriers to just even if it's not an entry point it's just barriers to getting access to it if cues are really long or hard to find people to play with sometimes then of course like I said barriers entry were things like add-ons game knowledge you know week Wars things like that I imagine we'll sort of pick up where we left off with that and perhaps hear some of the things that were potentially problematic for the continued health and success of wow PVP I guess that's kind of where we're where we're at yeah certainly not dead but I mean the game's been out for a long time so it's it's not as popular as it was but wow was like PE like Peak wow is like Peak fortnite right it was like except maybe even better because it was like the only thing it was a combination of like the best game you know a format of game that people had not really seen on a large scale before uh like wow was a lot of people's first MMO and that that style of game was crazy you're interacting with other people and it was like one of the only ways to interact before social media so it had a lot of things going for it and it's not that anymore but I think W PP continues to be an absolute blast and I'm excited about the future of it even if it's not the only thing around these days but let's have a look let's have a look we can keep talking to it you really you literally just uh finished watching this react video on YouTube jump on stream to watch it yeah let's do it let's do it let's see what's going on we had a lot of fun with the first one so let's Dive Right In shall we where's the skill capat video that's what we want to watch fine Fair reasonable okay all right we've watched this bellular idiots these guys don't know what the hell they're talking about I don't think they even play the game okay I'm not I wouldn't call them idiots okay they I don't think that um I don't think that uh they are probably playing a whole lot of wow PVP right now I don't know if I'd call him idiots oh whatever p is hilarious and that's one of the reasons I enjoyed reacting to this video so much before cuz p p is bringing the heat we got to see what's going on we got a skill cap video guys this is is this a real graph so that's another thing I need to watch some videos talking about this particular graph because if if these are real numbers that's actually really really freaking cool to see that because that's that's looking pretty all right we're on an upward Trend right now you know the real video okay this what's really going on these are the Diehard wow PVP fans we'll see what they have to say about the game and what is going on here okay we're going to take a look and see World of Warcraft has more players than it did in Legion Dragon flight has offered more content than ever before while fix of the biggest issues from previous expansions what do you guys think about item upgrading actually I I like a lot of the mechanics where you you slowly get more powerful and you rank up I actually like that but I can also see where that's annoying for people and where it sort of creates like these barriers like in order to break into 2100 you have to beat people who have better gear than you which is which is hard I can see both sides I think it's easy to just log in you have your gear it's as good as it's going to get it makes me feel good to say that on stream to people like yeah just log in it's easy just get your Conquest gear you're good to go but at the same time it it's it's like maybe it makes me not feel like I'm progressing as much with my character and I like that feeling oh my God you guys remember this oh my God but having like eight different eight different like brackets to upgrade that's kind of tough I wonder if I do you think am I going to be able to sit down on the bottom left this this video I think I'll do that I think I'm going to pop down here just let me don't mind me I'm just making my way across here I think overall it's probably better to not have that kind of upgrading system but I do like to make gains the locked gear behind conquest and Arena rating do you guys remember that [ __ ] that was insane they made it even worse to gear character that was the worst [ __ ] ever it was unbeliev you couldn't even you would no way you could catch up it was nuts they even got the sweating Pepe right there on the side this it oh no Pika came down Pika taking my spot bro here I'll come up here a little bit here I'll just we'll just hang out with P up top P you don't mind if I kind of just like rest on your broad strong shoulders do you okay cool thanks but if wow is doing so well why does PVP suddenly feels so dead of course the player base is now fractured more than ever but you could join a solo Shuffle Q right now and watch this entire video before getting a pop it's true okay right there guys that that was two insane reasons right there's like six versions of wow out this guy's playing wrath this guy is playing go over here s so this guy's playing plunder storm and this guy on the left is playing retail so this is four different versions of the game right here looking at that's probably a big deal not including all the other ones so okay but you could join a solo Shuffle que right now and watch this entire video before get time and Q 5 years 11 months 12 misdemeanor 16 eternities and a $113,000 fee nice meme a pop and even if you're an experienced player Arena can feel overwhelming we can't even imagine what it feels like to be a new player in 2024 add-ons have become part of the meta game itself and dude look at this screen oh my God what is going on here what are we even looking at Jesus I to be fair I feel like you could do this at dude P you gotta he keeps moving around on me pick a spot Pika geez Louise Man follow me around I know this is your video but my goodness be hard to edit I I'll just park myself up here um I like you could find crazy uis in any um in any expansion but yeah people are using lot of weak ORS these days that is that is for True look how different this looked from the from the other screen it's just buttons everywhere everything is everywhere like everywhere all over the [ __ ] place this is why people are against add-ons look at the screen it didn't used to look like this guys that's why that's why it was not like this now it's like this arms you want information mobility and micro CC than any other point in Wow's history how did this happen and more importantly what can we do to fix it this video is going to focus on solo Shuffle which has become the most popular PVP mode by far but not without a few consequences from class balance to Q times incentives and more solo Shuffle might have changed PVP forever and some look at Ben Ruki popping off 240k then pika pika reacting to that D look at these look at these reacts man some strong content I guess we're guess we're getting the right idea it's cuz you can find a crazy UI doesn't mean it's totally normal yeah but I I think they're just using it to illustrate the point that like you can you can have all these add-ons feeding you all this information um and so people feel like they need to do that and so it feels like a barrier for entry because if you're not being told the cool down of kidney shot you are at a disadvantage right if somebody else knows when you know all of your abilities that you could use defensively or offensively against them are available and you don't know when they're available for them then you know they're making a more informed decision right so it is kind of part of the deal unfortunately yeah players are scared for the future but we think there are a few Simple Solutions that Mom turn that off turn that off all right yeah oh she was jamming okay soon soon all right let's watch this let's watch this he had to respond he had to week or ago off for DmC music respond to in in dragon flight PVP could be improved for the future all right what do we got every look you will see one basic complaint about PVP arena is too overwhelming which makes addons oh yeah and Q times are long but more on that later anyway let's be honest Arena does feel hard these days and it's hard to pinpoint why butons have become one solution this is what C's UI looked like during bro we just we just look at C's buttons look at what's going on looks like he's playing a whole different game look at that are you kidding me this must have been just look at what his [ __ ] looked like now yeah guys this is a lot be a lot Ferell Ferell AF Resto Shaman Mir that's got to be Warlords ofren or level 100 oh yeah and we are oh yeah less [ __ ] going on here right lot less info being shown but this was this was even then this was still hard to watch well maybe with nowadays what people have been exp commentary maybe this is more watchable now because I mean we're more exposed to this kind of [ __ ] cuz yeah this is I mean like yeah this is nuts so this is the old school I mean it's watchable you just got to know what's going on the only thing I don't like is having like this right on your right on your face but that's like you kind of can get a little tunnel vision in Arena so you actually don't have to move your eyes as far you just see what's going on with the Enemy team and if he's trying to focus you know sheer the lock then he's got him right on Focus for that no no real key no real cooldowns being tra yeah it's the cool down tracking besides just like kick U looks like now it seems like half of his screen is covered with weak oras cool down trackers name plates and more you can play me for all that become infinitely more complex in the past three expansions a game that is supposed to feel alive and immersive into your grandma's Internet Explorer back in 2007 these guys are laying on the mem I understand why UI got to this point without communication you need a million different alerts letting you know what's going on but we think the issue is multiple layers deep the problem it's pretty funny because people used to use that add-on called people probably use it now Gladiator lossa and it was like oh my gosh what a no they're using Gladiator lossa and now they just use all the weak Wars that do the same thing so instead of it saying War breaker it says War breaker like just like a giant text on your screen instead of it just like Whispering it to you same thing though I mean yeah this happened before solo shuffle for sure this this was happening before solo Shuffle right I mean look like look at this there's it had to be before solo Shuffle starts letting you know what's going on but we think the issue is multiple layers deep the problem isn't design and more specifically power wow gets older and more comp classes get updated and start to become way more complicated every single expansion this isn't just unique to wow and happens in almost every single game PVP has seen power creep in multiple places and Mobility is the most obvious ever since the introduction of demon hunters and Legion there's arms race in the way characters move I I always feel like oh my like I look at the warrior changes and I'm like oh my God Warriors are going to be busted we have two charges and heroic leap on 30 seconds dude nobody's ever going to be able to give get away we have two blad storms holy crap we're insane and then all of a sudden you look at what other classes get and and and you're like wait what how did all this that I just got still mean nothing Mages have 18 blinks it's like what is going on I still can't move my character this same expansion is when Palin would get div and some melee would even get extended range on their attacks fast forward to Dragon flight and a spec like Outlaw Rogue has Shadow step grappling hook Sprint with 100% move speed three extra yards in every attack and even an attack that charges them to their target all of this can have its cool down lower just by spending combo points yeah they they they so badly didn't want to give rep Paladin movement skills they just made them ranged just like F this dude in fact Mobility is so ridiculous that a simple macro can make it look like Rogues are cheating just watch I'm going back down to left back to my spot yeah if you guys if you guys missed that oh here it goes here it is the kicks and then instantly hooks back having nearly 100% up time while Landing CC yeah me next expansion death Knights will be getting their own allowing them to mount in combat that's a 45C cool down by the way 10c freedom and Immunity Canen when casters get their own power creat but why should you care about character movement as we're going to be doing that the entire tool kit it means doing better damage since you have an easier time sticking on Target and this even applies to healers you will do more more healing if you have more movement being faster means it's easier to cross the map and even avoid CC obviously moving faster is also a buff to survivability because it's harder to actually get look at this look at this look how clean the screen is right here nothing on the screen in my old peekaboo like PVP montages I was like looking at it the other day and I was like look at this this was I don't know what expansion this is in I I have the same UI I I have a I have no add-ons showing I guess I guess I was for turns but this is what the game looked like when you just logged in you just you just played like this and everyone thought that this was super unwatchable back in the day how how cluttered is just the what I do where you just move the Target and uh like player frames just in the middle does it make it that much more cluttered because I feel like part of the reason is you have nothing in the middle of your screen look to this I feel like it would it would make more sense right top Dono recent Dono yeah I mean like this is just I had I have IUS on that was it there was no other add-ons it was just it was just one one thing I I think this is mock what a stream come up for p you knew the other people were were just as confused as you they they don't they don't have on yeah and now now it's now it's just insane see this if you trying to pick up a Cas 33,000 views years ago a nightmare it will feel like you never have the chance to actually get away even if you managed to get a few seconds of room it probably won't last for long and now you need to deal with the next power creep micro CC stand there tank people as a warlock cc is not polymorph Cyclone sap or even Hammer of Justice no we're talking about something else micro cc is the smaller shorter CC that is just there to add more disruption it's not sap but gouch 6C freezing trap no that's the CC the micro cc is the 3se second Silence from spider venom can't relate don't have that even if a monk misses they can still that's an actual like 30C stun it's supposed to be4 is dictated by smaller micro disruptions gameplay everyone's goal in Arena is to make sure the enemy team can't control their character drock gotten to the point where even just it's Dr doesn't mean it's mic getting controlled for almost 3 seconds by a fear while getting trained eventually leading to the [ __ ] am I looking we are watching someone else watch someone yes welcome to Welcome to the current meta of content creation brother I've I've I've held off as long as I could we have we have to got to keep the lights on bro we got to do reacts that's actually fun I like I like watching pika and and it's fine it kind of involves Us in the um the the the current topics of World of Warcraft you know we're doing it yeah having like a silence on heroic throw and just missing your Pummel of still silencing I didn't like that I that was too much that was too much I didn't like that you what how is this idiot dying here what the hell is going on here character and it's got point where even a spell like intimidating shout was used as a stun effect with abst control it was used to stop peels what's going on he's playing no it wasn't just to stun him low he has a rogue and a boomkin on his team they have to they have to stop peel so they can kill something that's not full that's not quite true that's not quite true you you the Boomin as soon as he comes out of the sphere is going to start spamming clone and the Roga is going to start spamming cheap shot that's not just to stun the Healer okay seconds by a fear while trained eventually leading to elimin from the a a they were fully cced the entire time that's why he feared them it wasn't just to stun the Healer the talent tree revamp many cc spells used to share Talent slots but now many of these choices are available all at once wasan is did it not break that was kind of insane guy man did as just die in Fe like a stun I don't gotten to the point where even a spell like intimidating shout was used as a stun effect with absterge getting control look at this guy man like how if yeah if he didn't get broken out of the the fear seconds by a fear while getting trained no he was lightning lasto that's why the fear didn't break because he was lightning lastoe so he couldn't Tremor that was actually insane that was a really good that was a really good play it wasn't just to stun him it was that that's not quite accurate what this what the video is saying he died in fear even spell like they feared right now right now so they can't stop the lasso on absterge and his teammates are still peeled he stopped the Clone with the fear and he stopped the peels with the fear look so he's feared for a while though what's going on like two seconds and then the last came out after eventually to elimination from before the talent many cc spells used to share Talent slots but now many of these choices are available break for a while in Dragon flight is what wins games you're never 321 your spells in a coordinated effort but instead just denying your opponent from playing the game while you blast them with damage this is to a completely backwards play style for that sty Des having one of too is that mix battle completely backwards play style for some classes this guy is very dead smiley face that's like what I have ironically despite having one of the strongest crowd control spells in the game Mages don't really have any micro which means spending most games blinking backwards I oops I did not mean to skip that where right oh my I was going to say um I like when people I when I see people using like the threat plates setups that I use and stuff like that it's funny as a stun effect with AB getting control look at this guy man like how are you what's going wor Fe breaks anything we don't have like lock lock elimination from thec but it did stick for like 2 seconds but you can play a talent that makes it last longer than they may have to share Talent slots but now many of these choices are available all at once in Dragon flight micro cc is what wins games you're never 3 that that was a nicer setup than they were giving him credit for denying OPP from playing while the shaman was ready to lasso as soon as the fear broke on abst anyway so it wasn't just fear strong Crow control spells in the game Mages don't really have any micro CC which means spending most games blinking back poor Mages no micro CC dragon breath patch 10.1 included Nerfs to the duration of almost every CC in the game dude can you imagine if they a CC oh my God what would wow actually look like I'm like maybe no one would actually play the game if they didn't even Nerf the CC every single CC was like nerfed right like that was Mage does not have enough CC holy [ __ ] you would actually get CCD for like a an entire minute that'd be ridiculous which that's the problem with old wow expans now you actually are CCD infinitely you can't do anything intentionally shifted the balance in favor of micro CC what's the point in overextending for a 6sec polymorph while losing out on damage when your infinite Mobil Rogue could just gouge at almost zero damage loss we will talk about Dam but because burst DPS is so high there is Need for Queen set while losing out on damage inally shifted the balance in favor of micro what's the point in overextending while out on when yeah you blinked in and got kicked by the Healer and then died like get owned like what do you want what's the point in overextending for a 6sec polymorph while losing out you got kicked by the Rog could just gouge at almost zero damage and then got destroyed without pressing any buttons but because is so high there isn't a need for clean setups as long as you prevent someone from controlling their character it doesn't matter how sloppy you play micro cc is also the reason why precog exists in the but because burst DPS is so high there isn't a need for clean setup as long as you can just prevent someone from controlling their character it doesn't matter wait how did how did he kill himo isn't cloak like an immunity or just for like a second character it doesn't matter how sloppy you is also the reason why precog exist with Mobility having an interrupt there aren't many windows to dude what a what a Caster what a Caster themed video this is wanted about micro CC saying Mages don't have enough CC overextending for the polymorph JK getting kicked by the Healer and not pressing any buttons and dying like I mean brother poor casters watch me try and land a single Cyclone on a Demon Hunter who won't even use their kick between two stuns and incap Glimpse and Shadow melt it's not even possible to cast a single time without losing most of my HP because of this maity oh God I I just yeah you just know bro it's like if you've ever tried to play first of all I don't know man what he should if if he is he he's a Healer here okay like you're not going able to cut H anyway but yeah Demon Hunter versus rest is actually pretty tough on Demon Hunter even use their kick between two stuns and incap Glimpse and Shadow melt it's not even possible to cast a single time without losing most of my HP oh God I just you just know bro it's like if you ever tried to play a caster and you're trying to cast on a Demon Hunter you just know it feels terrible like that never feels good to be trying to cast on a Demon Hunter who's not CC literally takes a miracle to get they have to completely mess something up between one gu and Shadow it's not even possible to cast a single time without my majority of their damage coming from instant cast spells and it's no surpris that specs with the best instant cast damage are the ones who gravitate towards the S tier power creep of mobility and micro CC might seem where this story ends but we're not finished yet we orus has become ubiquitous in PvP starting in shadowlands because during the early expansion first damage was at its peak The Bu to the crit modifier players were getting shot like never before and even though crit damage would be nerfed in early Dragon flight there was another dramatic shift in class design that had been back as now Not only was burst damage high but now every player burst damage as a warrior can't relate this was a trend that had started in Legion design was moving away from single Target abilities in favor of popping off on the at this guys look how different the game right we're level 110 leg when was that is V about to triple kill these people or something it probably is leg automatically CLE glasses like Mages were abandoning CC Al together in order a Time casting polymorph on the Healer when you can just press Arcane barrage to wipe out the whole team combine this with micro and you have a metag game based around Splash damage especially with the introduction of evoker whose signature ability mechanic borrowed directly from a raid boss in the past Frosty K was defined setups getting a huge damage Spike with pillar of frost and then cleaving everyone down at once but now it feels like most classes can do the same thing just crank up the damage meters and toss in a few stuns and suddenly you've learned how to PVP that was very recently right there we have a meta game defined by power creep with Mobility micro CC and AOE damage classes and comps that once felt unique have converged into a single wind condition which is as much damage as possible abusing a million different modifiers to inflate the damage of a single spell yeah that's that's the dang meta right there H pal turbo versus double Druid Kitty cleave yeah that oh both of those comps it's just nothing but that on the ladder these days you hate to see it you just really do I I queueing into nothing but Resto Druid feral Russo Druid feral Kitty cleave and a good old HP Turbo Man just really dominating the ladder these days need for precise setups and calulated unb and more often than not the only thing that matters is how see either those respond to a we Time video one of the most dominant comps on the 33 bit Warrior and fist okay dominates with P all right listen what the okay this is probably the first and last time ever that sidu samam and Trill have played Resto Druid turbo this is the one clip of the first and last time they ever played this comp and I think they were probably 2400 MMR here numb overwhelming healers with raw damage this guy knows more other people well yeah you can tell someone who plays PVP 20 years versus someone who never played their life do you hear the difference we're actually seeing what's going on G big doing the why it's happened play many different variations all the variations of scrip is little Caster I mean it's just insane it's absolutely insane and micro CC and that's mostly how the average solo like 23 have enough damage to kill through healing especially during dampening these days bics and more about numbers how much DPS can you do and how little will you take so the things the things he's saying I don't necessarily disagree with I just think that the examples that we're seeing here are kind of funny they're specific stuff but no I think that the meta for PVP right now is absolutely just do as much damage as possible and try not to die but the thing is like Warrior has been that for a long time so I'm kind of used to that I don't really do anything like I try to save my teammates I try to like stop the other team's goes with like my Cc or like Bladestorm immun like some stuff and just doing damage but that's just what Warrior is but maybe that's just what all the classes are but I don't I don't know I don't know some of these examples that they're using though are pretty funny cuz it's like a very specific situation how did we get to this point in class design in wow there's been a growing tension between Class balance and class identity in the past everyone was defined by Unique Mechanics their stuns Hunters had their pets and frosty KS still kind of sucked having a I don't know about that I I think I think that U identity and uniqueness and having cool things that feel op about your class is more important than balance in my opinion I like it when things feel a little busted and every class has its own busted thing and so you you Zone into the arena and you're like oh crap it's this we have to watch out for this you know but you also have one of those things too right so I like that unique class identity is cool and all but it doesn't take long to realize that some mechanics are really nice to have especially in PvP true moral strike and we're one of the few classes to actually have this mechanic but as it turns out reducing healing and P is pretty damn good I yeah I don't I don't think that it needs to be quite like classic I'm also not a huge fan of classic I don't think it needs to be like Warrior is the only class with a mortal strike or anything like that but I like it when like we have like cool stuff like cool cooldowns to look out for cool mechanics to watch out for I think that's fun so good that these days almost every single melee in the game has Mortal strike and even warlocks have it too but it gets even more have it Demon Hunter have a mortal strike stuns one of them is AOE by the way what more oh yeah an instant cast polymorph or Cy and D well yeah DH is busted I mean like what do you want you and they basically have speed hacks Demon Hunter is a pretty extreme example but you get the point mechanics that were once unique are now passed around like a joint at a Snoop Dog concert this is known as homogeneization which causes classes to lose their identity over time in the sake of game balance there's a private server called project Ascension where any player can use any ability in this game there are no can I watch this on stream we're not at this point but you can start to see the extreme end of homogeneization it might seem cool but it Tak the ID of class the about playing AOG is being a tactician but these dayss are becomers even subr who at one point subers to kill the yeah what do you think about that P let me look at this that's a cool graph what's going on here so arms oh right right you wouldn't yeah you wouldn't want to put arms warrior in the in the Brawlers tab this is this is a little bit too put the fury Warriors in there the Zug no arms where takes some takes some class takes some Precision of course of course and then and then the tacticians yeah yeah they by tactician they mean they have a lot of stuns yeah of course yeah little setup they can cast clone and stuff yeah very specs even sub at one point topping damage with rupture all while AB targeting to kill the entire team now we don't want to go pointing fingers but PVE and especially Mythic plus were a big part of homogeneization Mythic plus oh so it's pv's fault on why the game is like this now it's Year's fault that's as usual looking at it right here look at this guys that's insane it's all come down to AOE damage this and that AOE healing same thing with rbgs uh okay yeah that that's what that's what classic okay so it's not even a PVP problem it's a PVE problem that's RPGs sometimes have like you know you have like fights on a node that are like you know 1 V2 1 V one kind of stuff or 3v3 so there there's some stuff but RPGs usually just come down to just like you know AOE blasting who does more damage that kind of stuff but there are some plays that you can make for sure higher level RBG I think that's what happened okay there this is by far the most popular in season almost 300,000 RS per day compared to solo Shuffle which doesn't even scrape that amount per week here we see that again going to go over the graph again p is gonna g to pop off the graph again so 300,000 Keys per day 20,000 shuffles a week so even if we did try to skew the numbers you know that's that's okay it is what it is bro almost 10 times the size of PVP so it kind of makes sense what dire blizzard might lean to when figuring out class design to do big pulls in Mythic plus you need your group to quickly Dodge mechanics all while having enough kicks and cc's to stop multiple casts in a row bro I mean PVE is also extremely hard to watch on Twitch too I mean I think PVE is really confusing to look at have you guys ever watched like Mythic key streams or like these MDI races I feel like it's extremely hard to tell what the [ __ ] going on I think watchability as being important to the game is actually and I say this as a content creator and I realize this is not necessarily in my favor but I think it's very overrated I think if a game if the game is fun to play and I think that's way more important for the health of the game I think that our little sphere of people who like to watch content on Twitch and like to watch content on YouTube I think most people who play video games or play WoW in particular don't necessarily even watch any content about it they probably just log into it and play it so watchability I think is kind of something that's worth talking about because it relates to us as people who like to do this kind of thing but I don't know if it's actually that important for the game and I don't know if it's like something that they need to focus on but it's something to think about there there's like it's like add-on overload times 10 compared to PVP I feel like it's crazy boring to watch huh I guess we're all kind of PVP players but mobility and lots of CC this that many people play Mythic plus that ofg doesn't reflect it sounds familiar Mythic plus also has DPS checks every few minutes with pressure points based around big pulls and boss timers which means you need big burst damage in very specific moments and on trash you're going to need to spam your AOE stops while pumping out as much AOE damage as possible okay so lots of CC High Mobility cleavy burst damage jeez this really reminds me of something else oh yeah those bosses in Mythic Plus have these big one shots that means every class needs to have strong defensives and if they die without using them well that's their healer it's still bugging me just a little bit like H we already talked about this so much but I have to talk about it a little bit more because it's bugging me like these the numbers behind PVE and PVP like solo Shuffle if it was if it wasn't so hindered by having healers like how many people do you think are in Q waiting for a solo shuffle all day like if if solo Shuffle was popping constantly kind of like Mythic plus is sort of popping constantly like is is the time to form and build a group for Mythic plus as long as it is for solo Shuffle if that if if we're only talking about solo Shuffle cuz I don't know man there there's something there I 100% agree that PVP or is just not as popular as PVE like I I I get it and that's fine but there's just something it's just something not quite right about that you know there's not quite right about that maybe it is the same two lers for Shuffle yeah I know there's there's something going on that's bugging me but I I think that the the point they're illustrating is that PVE is way more popular than PVP I think that's always been like that and there's never not been that being the case um and and Mythic plus are fun they're they're like you get a group together it's it's kind of a longer run though it takes like 30 minutes to do it or more sometimes less I guess but I don't know it's like that many more keys being run like what's going on with that besides just the fact that there's just more people doing it there there's got to be something there got to think about it there's something there fault I wonder where I've heard this all before we don't think it's a massive conspiracy to say PVE might have had a massive effect on class identity and class balance because it's no accident that the mobility and AOE damage shift we saw in Legion was a direct result of that's it guys PVE ruin wow true no I actually don't mind playing a game where PVE is a big part of it and then you just try to PVP in that game I think it's actually fun to make your character strong and in my case and what I enjoy is getting my character stronger than other people's character and then doing PvP with that that's just fun and Arena May is probably supposed to be an environment where like things are more in balance and then just just skill takes over or composition takes over or whatever but I still like getting strong and kicking butt and I think that's what led me to Arena initially is I was like how do I get stronger to demolish people in bgs harder and it was like oh you got to go do rated stuff to get purple gear and I was like oh okay I guess I better do that so I can dunk on people but yeah I don't know it's still part of the game that I enjoy having a PVE part of the game that leads into like a PVP end game like I like new world for that I liked uh I mean this is an example that probably piss people off but like Diablo Immortal was kind of an action RPG that despite the pay to win stuff I mean that's just that's just the whole point of the game I guess but it still is like you took a character farmed up gear for it and took it into PVP and that was really fun and there's not a lot of games that do that well and even Diablo 4 for that matter was was kind of like that too was pretty fun but yeah I I I actually like having uh getting your character stronger going to PVP uh gameplay white thanks for the prime man appreciate it dude but not I think a lot of people imagine just being like you just log in like like a tournament realm you just log in make your character PVP and that that's fine but I I like to make gains like I said I like to take them gains in into the gamep playay too that's what happened proves it right there new game mode that just happened to be released at that time where dungeons need to be cleared as fast as possible by bition game to PVP becoming even more amp wait wait Mythic plus got introduced don't think it's a massive conspiracy when did Mythic plus come out before Legion was there a wad so what did pveers do all day had challenge mode dungeons alts challenge modes it was just alts right run alt through stuff I don't even know used to plus is is absolutely leg F mounts not wait so there you couldn't even play the game if you were holy [ __ ] I didn't even know that might have had a massive effect on class identity and class balance because it's no accident that the mobility and AOE damage shift we saw in Legion was a direct result of a new game mode that just happened to be released at that time where dungeons need to be cleared as fast as possible by pulling multiple mobs at once like you still want to get your characters just stronger even more and you you you look at what your characters can do right it's like Mobility utility damage you know like you want to kind of increase or change those things over over time so the character would probably grow across all those parameters over time except for like when they do prune stuff like wad which that was probably like one of my least favorite gameplay expansions but yeah I mean Mythic plus being sort of like one of the big types of content people like to do it does kind of make sense that that might be the overarching sort of balance thing but yeah I don't know not sure Amplified thanks to solo shuffle a game mode where raw damage Reigns Supreme the add-on problem that many people talk about wouldn't be such an issue if the game weren't so power crap you wouldn't need 10 different alerts letting you know the enemy team popped their Giga AOE offensive now here's where things get a bit touchy there's a lot of people who enjoy solo shuffle for a few good reasons let's face it the wow Community is getting older and some of us have busy lives maybe our friends have moved on from Wow and we don't want to sit in lfg many players solo Shuffle is really the only way to participate in ranked PVP that's not you're not just press play and get immediately into the action other players are more pessimistic arguing that solo Shuffle is lit killing PVP one thing they will say is that solo Shuffle gameplay feel like real Arena to them solo Shuffle is the fast food of PVP it's addicting and gives you what you instantly want but maybe it's not the healthiest and right now it's the only thing people want to eat there's a growing sentiment that Arena has started do you guys think that's the case how many of you guys who are pvpers would rather do arena with your buddies than solo Shuffle I would I would but Harris thanks for the 96 months made big flakes for you there is a huge draw for people who like don't have the social network of people to do arena with you can just click solo Shuffle and at some point you're going to get a Queue at some point you're going to get in the arena but I I strongly prefer doing Arena With Buddies than uh than solo Shuffle but then again if solo Shuffle was like just popping all day long I mean it's another thing it's just easier to to do it right and also it's like there is the element of of like your teammates like if you let your teammates down in Solo Shuffle you're like who cares F those guys but if you like let your teammate down that you know it's like your friend it's kind of like a bummer it's like man I I'm not really on my game today I don't even know if I should Q3 I don't want to like you know bring my teammates down versus being like f them guys in Solo Shuffle that's their fault you like I didn't pop Perry yeah what what my healer should have healed me I we shouldn't have been in that situation my teammate should have stopped the CC on the Healer then I wouldn't have had to Parry anyway you know like you can just kind of brush off the uh responsibility right so but no I there's there's a lot of different angles to it and I think that solar Shuffle I think it is overall probably a positive thing to have added to the game overall but there are sometimes where I'm like this was a mistake for sure so I don't know to feel more like PVE in Solo Shuffle where you can't really coordinate crowd control or even damage itself it makes sense that simply cleaving the enemy team down and stopping cast like Mythic plus would become the emerging play style this has even crept into 3v3 itself where even a comp like rmp can just win with raw numbers but with the convenience of solo Shuffle participation in other brackets has gone down Dr G are especially dire with daily gam sometimes being less than 200 and with the potential introduction of BG Blitz as a rated mode RB well that's because people again people instead of you know sitting in lfg trying to form a YOLO RBG group for Conquest they just hop in solar Shuffle Q it makes it's easier it's it's less of a barrier to entry cuz like you you can't like have somebody turn you down from the solo Shuffle it's like no you're like once you have the eye level to just ceue up for it it's not like people be like no I don't really want to bring you know a zero XP Fury Warrior into my RBG group but solo Shuffle is like hey you're in bro get in there you know so the and the solo the solo rbgs I think will be really good for the game I think a lot of people aren't as interested in Arena as they are interested in just queuing up bgs and the BG mode is actually like arena in Solo Shuffle is different because you start off at in dampening but the bgs are like Fast have you guys played the the the blitz like you run really fast on your Mount there's power ups everywhere there's less people the games are like the maps are smaller it's going to like a whole different ball game even more different than um arena is than like the solo Shuffle you know what I mean it'll be fun I think it'll succeed but it probably will kill the RBG bracket so people have been asking like if my interpretation is there won't be RBG pre-made groups anymore that wasn't my interpretation but I mean like they they may as well maybe I don't know that'd be weird if they just like don't have RPGs at all and all there is is the BG Blitz that would be odd I think but it may kill the bracket anyway so they might just be doing itg participation could be become entirely extinct in the future currently Arena rewards and other brackets are becoming harder and harder to get since participation is a big factor in MMR less people playing means less rating inflation and less inflation means a confusing sense of progression from season to season benoi recently tweeted that damn yeah I mean this is how how do how do they stop all this is there even a way to go back can we even go back I don't we're W on that this video like possible like I guys I think going back is not the Strat I think you can learn from what was successful and build on it but I don't think going backwards is good this is interesting because League of Legends does something very different right I don't know if you guys play League of Legends but like Emerald now is like silver back in the day so people they they just sort of inflate MMR over time so people think that they've gotten better even if they're not better it's just they just get put in a higher bracket anyway that's kind of tough when you when it when you start off at at or like you know you feel like it's hard to push like 2200 in the beginning of the season when you were you know like 2800 last season it's it's kind of it's kind of tough but yeah what do you do what do you do U and what what would I do going forward I I'll watch the end of this video and I'll and I'll see what they think and and we'll we'll respond to that as well but yeah I don't know it is it is tricky it is tricky because there are some things that I like that isn't necessarily think the best thing for the game in general right so I think solo Shuffle was game I I think it was they just they he just didn't do the MMR right as someone who hit Emerald very easily this season you're offended well if you hit it easily I mean like what what were you what were you ranked a while ago right Emerald's the new gold right so people who are silver may be able to get emerald because they would have just gotten gold but anyway I don't play a lot of league but that's that's a situation that I've heard described by the people that I watch play league but maybe they're just kind of like you know talking smack for the healers they just need to they need to make the healers the high pryo they do they got to flip that the DPS should be the people suffering I think think cuz there's clearly infinite more DPS I'm not sure how they can ever try to even replace or or stop any of this but this tweet right here from Ben he's like my ALT araman peaked in season 1 at 2700 and he's been playing AR Shaman all this time right now now that he's a lot better at Shaman he's stuck at 22 to 2300 well he's at 2100 now when he was 600 rating higher than last season even though he's better now than he was before so it's it's it just fries people playing like that the incentify I mean I think they just have to make um if we're all going to play uh oh yeah I remember that yeah PVE had to do some [ __ ] to get some gear yeah that that's pretty that is pretty tough I I don't know if I I just man if they absolutely absolutely make PVE PVP against their will absolutely just let them let them whine and complain and rage like they did with freaking plunder storm oh my gosh make them do it dude make them do it because it's actually pretty fun and you know there there are some pveers who got relatively decent rating but yes make the pveers do at least a little bit of PVP yeah it really it really pumps up the whole bracket makes PVP a little bit more vibrant and whatnot because a lot of pvpers we have to go do PVE every now and the again for like legendaries or like trinkets or not trinkets now but you know what I mean yes make them do it do it indeed he just fix solo Shuffle and make it pop so they would have to just give healers like crazy MMR and none of these nonsense lobbies of losing rating losing MMR like I don't think people really care if their healers or subpar and Shuffle they just want to actually play the game the rating system and having static rewards tied to moving gold post is a how do you guys feel about that worse game quality for faster cues is that worth it really W become in PvP well you might not be in my PVP but you'll be in the PVP Community which will it which will you know trickle up right I don't know yeah if your healer is bad I don't know bro it is rough sometimes but you just got to send it I guess huh H yeah but that's that's what I'm saying it's like sometimes you sit in that 30-minute que just like I don't know man just give me the 1800 rated healer bro just give them to me Chef thank you so much man big Flix for I appreciate it man just just give me the 1800 rated healer bro huge issue uh there was crazy we all what I can really take away is that bellular those guys are confused they are heavily lost oh my God than it was in season one despite the fact that he feels better playing the spec this confusing sense of progression kills motivation for many players and keeps them to a single can we get people to play other more without completely making solo Shuffle obsolete H surely there has got to be a system that encourages people to participate in PvP while also attracting new players H if there's one thing players love more than standing around elwin is looking cool while doing it I mean that's why we play the game right I hate plunder storms are how dare they make me do this and apparently some people are willing to fortnite wow Edition just to get a pirate transmog a tri system specific to PVP seems like an obvious way to motivate participation brackets imagine a log that sent you to win 2v2 3v3 or rbgs resetting every month with new rewards these rewards could be anything like black market Auction House containers they could even be old Elite sets but probably reskinned healers could their own unique rewards like bonus Black Market that's another thing that we can talk about is whether you guys think that the the panda event should give just the legit super rare or like hard to get prestigious transmogs and mounts that you could get back in M there ain't no way they should just give you the exact same one it's got to be at least reskinned ain't no way you should just be able to go back and get the exact same thing in my opinion containers or a discount code for therapy and a twoe vacation to get away from every Demon Hunter anything that gets more healers participating me that's what you have to do up for everyone else the goal make sure players can enjoy everything offering incentives to play multiple brackets as long as new players have a motivating reason to engage in PvP can make sure everyone is trying every bracket bro could you imagine if this would have looked like hly never going look like that naturally be in a better place with more players there could be a greater incentive to rethink class design we have to admit that Mythic plus isn't going anywhere and designers will probably prioritize it over PVP for the time being but maybe there is a solution here too even though the talent trees were meant to be Evergreen systems maybe it's time for PVP and PVE to finally have completely different talent trees some classes need dramatic reworks in PvP Frost Mage is just one example it's suffering from button bloat with not one not two but three different and easy to counter burst spells to fix this the entire spec would need to be rebuilt from the ground up and PVP but instead of class tuning these days it's more about adjusting PVP modifiers up and down the entire philosophy behind the original PVP Talent system was to make sure classes could get major rewards expecting PVE balance and vice versa the issues we discuss today are dude like this sounds so unrealistic I mean how guys how are they going to remake the whole spec like how is that how is that even possible how they what are they going to re redo this on like every class and how could that even happen especially on a new um on a new expansion I don't I don't even know like how being another thinking human is way harder than a script to fight want seeed go to bed people always a side think yeah P there's a lot of things with PP about that but yeah I don't know like I feel like a lot ofion but solo Shuffle really shook a lot of the stuff up too cuz you find a lot of random [ __ ] and play a lot of random things I I I swear if they just made solo Shuffle playable people would be much happier they would be much happier if you if you didn't have to wait an hour or two hours to play the game true then a lot of this stuff you can just brush under the rug because because you can play but there's nothing worse than sitting there for 45 minutes and then someone leaves and then you just can't even play the game or you have a bad game and it's like dude no one has time for that [ __ ] so maybe maybe they got to go the route of making healers just gain infinite rating in Solo Shuffle that's what it is and then everyone will have to deal with like people trying to play healer and maybe all the best healers and that kind of makes the game quality a bit lower but it's still just like yeah that's already how it is anyway so what if what if they made healer MMR just grind there is no like you can't really like lose rating it's just who can play the most games I don't think that's healthy or good but what if what if what if the Healer was just like a reward path that you just went through like a battle pass and your your rating was just literally a Healer battle pass and you just kept unlocking stuff and then there was something at the end where you could continue to just Farm a a m a box that just gave you a random mount in the game including Invincible including like you know like I was talking with Mr panderia like including like whatever storm dragons like what if you know it just it was a box and it just contained an item that you could get on the black market auction house or something like that right and you just continue to unlock just everything in in the game why not right why just increase match rewards for cuz that that's what I'm saying is in increased match rewards healers don't care about more honor or more conquest or whatever right that's not that's not going to be good and no you don't need to have a game where it's just you you just get matched up 3v3 and that's the only thing you do I disagree with that too no it should be a Lobby I think solo Shuffle is good just need to have incentives for healers just just give them a box from the black market auction house just once they unlock like a you know they just continue just to farm that very last uh bit of the Healer the Healer battle pass it's like who even knows let's get him queuing up man with not one not two but three the weight time in Shuffle is because there's not enough healers that have anything do with rating it just reason healers don't play the game is because of how bad the uh MMR system is and rating gain is for healers so yeah basically like if you try to play A Healer you could get healer BS from that kind stff you get you get trolled on healer or levers it like you should the way the MMR works it's super terrible for like healers should like always be able to gain rating and gain mm almost it should be very hard to lose as a Healer that's 10,000 rated healers the what healers suffer from right now in Solo Shuffle DPS players should be dealing with because there's infinite DPS players it's insane the rampant Bing yeah that's a big problem too every game has a ton of cheaters too it's nuts I never I don't feel like I ran into too much Bing but L is insane right like every every healer is complaining about that's why a lot of them don't play it next think it would be bad well because like you just get matched up with like a like a trash comp and you you don't have any way to like redeem yourself and waiting waiting a long time for one single game would be bad do you think it would actually be faster I again it's it's the it's the discussion of game quality versus Q time if it made the if it made the the Q time 10 minutes shorter but you only got to play one game and you got match up with a trash comp or a bad healer and the other team had a good comp and good healer and you just lose it's like well that sucked I didn't even get to have my chance to not play double arms Warrior disc priest right I could have at least had that other healer with the other DPS other two DPS to try to you know redeem myself to see if I'm the better Warrior you know whatever right but instead you get one game of double arms Warrior discre and it's just like well I guess that's uh guess that's that you know I disagree that it should be one game because they can't it it's it's just stupid like I mean 1800 on disree played five games three matches a person left yes it's nuts different and easy to counter burst spells to fix this the entire spec would need to be rebuilt from the ground up in PvP but yeah I don't know how they can rebuild every spec about adjusting PVP modifers up and down the entire philosophy behind the original PVP Talent system was to make sure classes could get major reworks without affecting PVE balance and vice versa is a major thing though one of many AFF PVP they tried they tried templates in Legion I would say templates in Legion was another one of those things that was like the most dis like the most uninteresting way of of making your character stronger you couldn't even like change your gear around right now you have access to all the gear like eventually and you can like try different stat values and I like that but you couldn't even do that in Legion I didn't like that at all that there are potentially how has blizzard not done anything about it I don't know I don't know how blizzard has not done [ __ ] about Shuffle I really I thought Shuffle was sick I have a lot of fun playing Shuffle but yeah the main problem with it is literally the Q time I I literally think all these issues anything anyone's complaining about or crying about it's done if you can just play No One Cares like make new classes make new specs and Shuffle is so good for that shuff's even better because of the class balance in less because you're playing all these bad comps all these random comps all this random [ __ ] and everyone is fored to that's even better way too many Arena Maps these days with many weird balancing issues when players were discussing a solo game mode 3 years ago the intention was to make sure there was a way to instantly Quee and get into the action but since solo Shuffle last six rounds there is a slow churn of players caused by congestion which is why Q times can last so long for DPS 4 hours in Q bro since you're just waiting for someone else's six rounds to end button damn should they just make it like three round I don't know I don't even know what they should do two rounds four round I think the format is probably as good as it can get really cuz you can you can get oh Mega unlucky and get like a bunch of games in a row where you have a bad comp or or whatever but with the with the full Lobby system you can at least like play it out right and see how it goes I'd take a BM box every game no it wouldn't be every game you'd have to like you'd have to like earn like you know how like you have your rep rewards along the way and then you have like the prestige rep reward it I would suggest it's like that but no there's I don't think that the the six game like Sixers Lobby format is bad I just it's just you got to make healers queue up you got to make them want to play rounds like what maybe play what you think one round man I wouldn't even mind one round you know what I'm saying like C like an actual uh game I don't know float is its own issue and many players think that rotations are becoming too complicated we know that PVP combat can feel engaging even with seven abilities but you don't even have to take things that far between Arena 123 macros Talent swaps and more it's common to have over 40 key binds in PvP which is quite daunting as a new player even though players fought back pruning during Warlords of drainer a new hero talents on the way could even more complicated and could benefit from a return to more Simplicity arena is already complicated enough and if we want to attract new players to PVP it shouldn't feel like you need an all prescription and encyclopedia just to play it's always been our goal at skill to make damn okay are we just into the hashtag ad part I don't know bro I don't know I don't hear P says but I don't want to have this on the screen right now what do you what do you think P yeah maybe I don't know can they make the game simpler is that possible guys that was that that was a reaction to skill cap thing we watched uh the ASM reaction to bellular that was insane good video guys that's that was that that possible POS what do you guys think what do you guys think I think a more simple game is more boring for sure we had the chance to play wrath people can play wrath Arena right now if they want to and they're not choosing that option mostly people are choosing to play um s so but I don't think the main draw to S so is like the PVP right people like people like making a million Al in rating and stuff right make Sol Shuffle 2v2 on the DPS everyone's happy I I don't I wouldn't be happy as a warrior no I don't think so maybe rep paladins and feral Druids things I can like off heel and kite would be happy Rogues maybe because they can set up St CC I don't think I'd be happy as a warrior double DPS I'd rather play Threes where I can sort of put my utility to use I I think that wad was like one of my least favorite expansions in terms of like PVP I didn't like how simple things were like can you imagine like I I I did I I we I played TBC recently I played wrath recently it only just gets better as you go running t BC running around pressing mortal strike Whirlwind hamstring and just Auto attacking people no that's like I that's terrible you're just hoping for a mace stun like that's terrible but I I think that the game like having you know cool buttons to press even if it's a lot going on again I think I've said this before the main thing is you just it just needs to be something that people like to do just needs to be cool and then they'll be willing to learn the game and figure things out and the add-ons part if they wanted to do away with add-ons sure but I mean like part of it again is just like you don't need all those add-ons right off the bat I mean once you're getting to the point where you even you know understand how to respond to cooldowns and you're like man it would be nice to know when this ability is available to the enemy or it'd be nice to have a little bit more a heads up when people are using this like if somebody's popping a cool down behind me right and I'm like oh snap they just popped Icy Veins like that's good to know too but like you don't need to know that immediately right but yeah if they want to do with Adon sure and I think that the the argument against what I'm saying about like Simplicity is like um plunder storm right you can actually have pretty dang fun PvP with plunder storm and it's a blast to play and I enjoyed it I enjoyed a lot however I mean how many people are playing plunder storm right now what what you need now is like okay that was a really cool run now we need more abilities now we need more stuff now we need different stuff so if if something is like super super simple I feel like it can sort of run it of course a little bit more quickly but there are games like like battle right where it's still like the the character has like you know it's basic setup right and you just are in a an arena like a 2v2 and that plays itself out and it's cool but again battle R is also a game that is not like a thing anymore so I don't know I don't know if just like super simplification is actually better even though we can see that there's some complexity going on and and it seems like a lot sometimes right it is tricky uh there's a leveling process needs to be a mage Tower like every event that stops them every 10 level so and then they have to learn to use their abilities to feed the tower before they can progress yeah maybe I think making play making new players do that kind of stuff maybe not so much but yeah it's a br here to play MMO yeah an MMO's got lots of buttons lot stuff to figure out but yeah um incentivizing healers strongly with like special rewards at the end of like a battle pass like you know maybe you would as a Healer unlock you would like go through and you'd get like conquest or like you know you would get more stuff than other people you know and you that that's just kind of part of being a Healer you're stronger than other people you have more gear earlier in the season than other people you know that's just how it is but it would only happen to healers but even that that would affect your ability to to to push threes is if you're in there grinding out your gear and you go through the solo Shuffle battle pass like you you have advantages over people I think incentivizing with just Conquest alone or honor is just not enough like in season like they just don't care like it's just not enough but then at the end of the battle pass or whatever you get just a black market auction house box every time you you kind of like prestige your thing that'd be cool heers get geared earlier than they stop playing earlier unless they have something like a black market auction house box to Chase or something like that right I'm just thinking what would it be like throughout the course of time like during during the the battle pass idea right force people to play bgs to play solo Shuffle or twos turns a lot of people off uh what do you mean by that like to get gear to get gear to the point where you can cue solo Shuffle that you mean is there battle pass in wow now well the idea that I have is is do something like that for healers specifically in Solo Shuffle to get people to to get them to queue up uh there is a battle pass it's just called like the the traitor tender or the whatever it's called but there that is already in the game you just like do quests and you get stuff and you can go buy transmog from the little vendor healing got boring with unavoidable CC yeah that's the part of the deal is like as a warrior like you're going to get kited sometimes right you're going to get cced sometimes other people get to play the game too and that's just kind of part of the deal but yeah it's annoying to be to be CCD but they talked about micro CC in this too a battle pass no it's not not something that you could that you could pay to progress like a like a normal battle pass I'm just saying like just a rewards tier like you know how you know how you have like your honor level you just but as a Healer it's something specific to solo Shuffle where you progress your rewards tier as a Healer in Solo Shuffle giving you rewards along the way ultimately being something that you earn like a black market auction house box for and then if you continue to play enough you will be able to continue to earn enough rep to rearn that same reward over and over that's just my idea but yeah that's a cool video good job P I enjoyed that that's that is a that is a subject of discussion that I'm interested in as someone who's played wild PVP for a long time and focuses on it as like my main thing that I like to do in the game I definitely uh definitely like to hear different perspectives CU I realize that my perspective isn't the only perspective so it's kind of neat to hear that that's cool though that's cool [Music]

Channel: Bajheera

Views: 19,367

Keywords: Bajheera, BajheeraWoW, PvP, BajheeraIRL, Gaming, Games and Gains, Twitch, PCGaming, Stream, Fyp, Viral, WorldOfWarcraft, Dragonflight, Warrior, fix, pvp, arena, 3v3, healers, reward

Id: bLl7Wh23POo

Length: 63min 5sec (3785 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 24 2024