This Mysterious Computer Could Prove Time Travel Exists | Nostalgia Nerd

between december 1984 and the spring of 1987 a gentleman named ken webster received numerous messages on his bbc micro model b these messages which at first seemed to be a prank or quirk of the computer quickly grew into a strange time-defying communication with a man from the 16th century named lucas this might be dismissed as a simple ghost story or urban legend had the details not been so difficult to explain away thankfully ken chronicled the events in this book the vertical plane published in 1989 a tome that's so rare that this one cost me 165 pounds to get hold of but despite its relative obscurity the events were so compelling they were subject to various investigations by official bodies and even featured in an episode of out of this world from 1996. to this day they've never really been explained now before we get into it i'd like to draw your attention to a place where you can find equally as fascinating documentaries thank you to sponsor curiositystream for making this video possible a subscription-based streaming service that offers thousands of compelling documentaries from the more supernatural such as curse of the phantom to hack the moon but discusses the technology behind the apollo missions curiosity stream adds new shows every week and addresses our lifelong quest to learn more and understand what's really going on head to curiositystream.com nerd for unlimited access to the world's top documentaries and use promo code nerd to save 25 that equates to just 14.99 per year 12 months that's one hell of a deal if you ask me ken webster was born in the lake district in 1955. he graduated the university of aberystwyth in 1976 and shortly after in 1984 found himself in the village of doddleston in the united kingdom in a small abode known as meadow cottage doddleston is a small and quaint village it has a pub called the red lion which still exists and operates to this day and it's a few meters further down the road at the corner of kineton and church road but you'll find meadow cottage you can see it's an old converted farm building divided up into a medley of small dwellings this image taken of meadow cottage in 1986 shows how little it has changed it still even appears to have the same front door but it's within this home during the autumn of 1984 where ken's story begins at the time ken was a teacher at hardin high school a secondary school 17 minutes drive away just over the border in wales and a school that was firmly in the middle of the uk's computer literacy project margaret thatcher's government were keen to push the uk forward as a leader in computing and so in conjunction with the bbc had brought acorn computers on board to create the bbc micro this home computer would have its own television program to ease the masses into home computing and soon after almost every school in the uk would be kitted out with these machines harden was one of the luckiest schools and had enough setups to loan out to teachers so they could work on and acquaint themselves with the hardware living in the cottage at this stage were ken his girlfriend debbie who was notably some 10 years younger and a friend passing through nick who slept in the upstairs studio whilst ken and debbie took the bedroom ken had decided to hire out a bbc micro so that nick could work on some english performance projects using the word processor edward now this is the edward chip the bbc micro was an incredibly capable yet expandable machine so in addition to the operating system and basic roms you could add your own custom ones giving the machine built-in capability a lot of school-bound micros would have this installed as standard the rationale given in the edward teacher's guide being to provide secondary pupils with the opportunity to experience something they might expect to encounter in the outside world in a manner that meets their needs and matches their abilities however it would provide meadow cottage with an experience that no one had expected edward is accessed by booting the bbc normally then typing edward and return we're then presented with a list of options and pressing c will start a new document you then have to type in a document name and when you exit out of the document edward will then automatically ask if you want to save the document as christmas ebbed closer the household decided to pop out to their friend david lovell's house leaving the bbc micro on albeit and the boot screen on return ken decided to have a glance at some of nick's work however upon calling up the disk contents using edwards index command had found a file called kdn which read as follows ken deb nick true are the nightmares of a person that fears safe are the bodies of the silent world turn pretty flower turn towards the sun for you shall grow and sow but the flower reaches too high and withers in the burning lights get out your bricks pussycat pussycat went to london to seek fame and fortune faith must not be lost for this shall be your redeemer given it wasn't something nick had created they mostly brushed it off as a prank by john a friend who occasionally popped around to record some guitar tracks with ken with a view to possibly starting a band but ken couldn't help but feel a chill run down his spine the computer went back to school and another wasn't borrowed until february 1985. again one evening it was accidentally left on and again a new file appeared re-eight seemingly the latter part of create i write on behalf of many what strange words thou speak although i must confess that i have also been ill-schooled sometimes me thinks alterations are somewhat powerful for they break many asleep in my bed thou art goodly man who a fanciful woman who dwell in mine home i have no want to afraid for only since mine half wooded antique has ripped a twain mine bound hath i been wreathed tonight i have seen many alterations lastly charge house and their home it is a fitting place with lights which devil maketh and costly things that only my friend edward grey can afford or the king himself it was a great crime to earth bribed mine house lw the first message had almost been dismissed but there was something deeply mysterious about these new words emanating from the bbc micro lw who was lw what were these strange words by the sound of it lw was under the impression that someone had stolen his house back at school ken decided to discuss these antics in the staff room perhaps see if anyone had any ideas on these strange happenings most dismissed it as some kind of prank by a friend or even someone breaking into the house but the english teacher peter trinder had a different more inquisitive view mainly sparked by the words seeming to fit with 16 for maybe 17th century english another interested party was john cummins who lived in the village but worked as a solicitor out of london it was he he voiced the need to reply to whatever this was and so with the crisp snap of winter still filling the air and peter's view that whoever or whatever this was possibly spoke with a 17th century tongue the trio began to write in the reign of queen elizabeth ii dear lw thank you for your message we are sorry for disturbing you what would you like us to do did you live in a house on this land in about 1620 do you want us to tell you more about our time why write a poem who is edward gray is he related to the edgerton family do you have a family is the king james or charles stewart what is the charge house what's this village called doddleston in your life and how many families lived here thank you very much for your messages thank you for not making us afraid ken debbie and john leaving this message on the screen they retreated to the red lion pub around the corner thinking or hoping it may prompt a reply and sure enough later that day it was an honest farm of oak and stone it is helpful that you should tell me about thy time dost thou hath horse edward grey brother of john grey lives at kineton hall thy king of course is henry viii who is 6 and 40 and a what of king james my charge house is a place of law schooling lw 28th of march anno 15 21. the problem was if they were really talking with someone from the past then this reply was littered with inconsistencies to start with in 1521 henry viii was only 30 years old not 46 still ken didn't want to contest too much after all he didn't really know what they were dealing with was this an intruder a weird program on but computer a prankster or was this really someone from the past the strange and perhaps modern grammar of question marks and brackets also confused the issue ken would continue borrowing the bbc from school but ideas of using it for scripts were a distant memory the intention was now purely to continue this strange communication and see where it led in the next message many snippets of information were given up that the time traveler's house had redstone footings that he has to sew barley early for ale and that he needed to go to nantwich to visit a farming friend richard wishall strange information to convey the traveler seemed keen to make it clear that ken was trespassing in his house however and on this occasion signed off with a name lucas a name that would be further expanded out on subsequent messages to lucas wayneman lw this raft of information was unexpected but began to provide a basis for fact-checking and investigation a story was being built up names like richard wishel could be investigated a clearer vision of his time could be assessed and significantly it now seemed like meadow cottage could be placed on the same plot of land that lucas had seemingly lived upon in the 16th century red stone could be found under the kitchen and soil around meadow cottage which seemed to tie in with the description of lucas's house but the most compelling evidence of all came from peter trinder who had been tracing lucas's words and managed to tie them back to the exact time period not just for words either but the sentence construction and the distinct combination of words with use of latin could all be pinpointed back to the cheshire era in the mid 16th century the earlier inconsistencies also appeared to correct themselves during further discourse lucas reveals himself to be living during the era of henry viii's marriage to catherine parr so sometime between 1543 and 1547 and claimed to have studied at brace nose college in oxford however when ken wrote back mentioning he was from 1985 this further complicated the matter you said your time being 1985. we thought you were all from 2109 like your friend whom did springleem's voiced prey lucas seemed to not only be speaking to ken but also to someone from the year 2109 who he claimed had appeared and brought the leems boist or box of lights to his time in the first place this is his term for his version of the bbc micro ken decided to write back to 2109 with a simple message calling 2109 ken deb peter we are sorry that we can give you only two choices one that you either have your predicament explained in such a non-rhyme way that you may have instant understanding but cause what should not happen or two try to understand that you three have a purpose that shall in your lifetime changes the face of history we 2109 must not affect your thoughts directly but give you some sort of guidance that will allow room for your own destiny all we can say is that we are all part of the same god whatever he it is this direct and strangely spelt response then seemed to be from the future two apparent lines of communication were now open and this time slip suddenly seemed to have purpose although it was beyond the understanding of ken debbie and peter at this point nick had moved out to add to this situation there also seemed to be a raft of paranormal activity happening in the cottage during this time tins would stack themselves up in the kitchen chalk markings appeared around the house sometimes with words the sounds of walking could be heard and strange feet impressions would appear on surfaces on the 15th of may debbie noted i dropped ken off at school after spending the night at east green then drove over to the cottage to feed the cats it was uh 9 am it was not till i walked up the path to the front door that i sent something was very wrong perhaps it was the cat sitting on the garden wall watching me rather than circling my feet as they usually do which prompted this unease i turned the key in the lock and pushed the door open in the living room i came face to face with a six foot eye pile of furniture it appeared to me in that instant to have been tossed by the little finger of a giant instantly i took a step back and out of the door and slammed it shut the cat still watched me in silence from the wall i didn't know quite what to do whatever was happening at the cottage was no longer just an intriguing puzzle it was now a destructive and potentially dangerous situation with the humble bbc still innocently left blinking at the heart of the conundrum shortly after debbie investigated ley lines direct alignments related to ancient landmarks and found one to be running almost directly through their cottage following this she began to receive visions of lucas and even dreams where she apparently interacted with him with the situation becoming ever more unusual peter trinder had convinced ken to go to the society for psychical research and see what their view was it was john bucknell and dave welch who had arrived from the spr and after a few initial unsuccessful sittings they proposed a test where they would write 10 questions on the bbc to this entity or entities known as 2109 in isolation from ken and the rest of the household then they would delete them if a reply to the questions came then ken's group should alert them immediately several days passed and a response came back [Music] david john david you interfere with communication next time you decide to perform your little experiment you must be clear from here we suggest you try someone else to sit with debbie yes we are what you would call otakion universe but your understanding is incorrect we ask nothing more of you than to carry on as you would prefer we will have john present if given choice or you may bring another as mentioned no it is no concern to us that this is not proved we will give you a plotting of a star next time we move at a speed so that we cover every point in your time and universe we have no form and feed of a neat energy that you will not have heard of 2109 on hearing this dave welch responded 2109 had not answered the questions but it seemed they had picked up all the questions left for them in the same order finally it appeared that ken debbie and peter had proof they had been categorically denied access to these questions during the test and given 2109 seemed to know what they were they could now be excluded as possible hoaxers themselves at least that's what they hoped in reality the spr went quiet they began to speculate that perhaps sensitive microphones could have been carefully placed to pick up the sounds of typing which could then be used to deduce what had been written on the computer they also suggested that perhaps someone was using the earth wire of the electricity supply to send and receive data through the micro whatever their view john shortly after left the spr dave welch disappeared without a trace and an official report was curiously never filed here i've got a copy of the mail on sunday dated 29th of december 1985. a period of significant snowfall across the uk among the duty-free terror of course but the paper is significant because shortly after this debacle ken debbie and peter reached out to the chester observer about their ordeal now i couldn't source a copy of that particular publication but various other newspapers reported on ken's story including this one complicated modern computer technology is the latest play thing for ghosts or at least one very peculiar poltergeist in particular oxford educated thomas harden had been dead for more than 400 years but that does not stop him enjoying a good session on a bbc micro after a hard day's toil on the farm but for a 16th century gentleman who should not really know a floppy disk from a cod piece his mastery of 20th century scientific skills is rather impressive but most of the historical information he feeds back to ken and a friend english specialist peter trinder is interesting and correct ken a doubting soul originally thought that someone was playing a prank now more than 150 messages later he is not so sure there definitely was a thomas hardin who was the dean of braisnova's college chapel at oxford in the late 1530s he was expelled for refusing to remove the pope's name from prayer books during henry viii's purge on roman catholism and appears to have settled for a quiet farming life in cheshire the society for psychical research has investigated the case no fewer than eight times but remained skeptical investigator peter bucknell i think that should be john is convinced some 1985 computer hacker in ken's village donaldston cheshire is responsible and mr harden he told the mail on sunday mine cook save i shall repent for my adventure and that it will come to foul issue but me thinks she'd be yellow and told her so is that a 16th century no comment it's clear that the male took a tongue in cheek view of the story indeed putting it on page 3 underneath a fashion segment about wellington boots for dogs but the story covers some interesting points that i haven't delved into thus far you see in an earlier message lucas had actually revealed he had been too scared to give his real name and details for fear of reprisal the same reason he had given some false earlier details and information also but through communication with ken had relaxed enough to open up and reveal his true name to be thomas harden details of whom can actually be traced to this day to being a fellow of brace nose college in the same time as specified in the message depending on where you look the spelling will change but these two names are both pronounced thomas harden of course today with access to the internet and archived records this information is easier to research but in 1985 there was no internet with the only investigation made through peter travelling to oxford and researching on site shortly after 2109 rather strangely suggested finding a gentleman by the name of gary rowe you may phone him at the number below and invite him to talk with you when he comes show him this and ask him what he makes of it peter must do the telephoning tell him that you got the telephone number from a ufo enthusiast 2109 [Music] gary was a ufo investigator who came armed with an array of equipment and apparently computer linked sensors ken described him as a sharp intelligent man obsessed with his ideas what followed was then a strange communication between gary and 2109 directly 2109 were asking ken to print off messages without reading them and pass them to gary in a sealed envelope this strange toeing and throwing ended up with gary writing a message to 2109 stating greetings i am instructed to apologize but in any event i would have done so of my own volition there'll be a letter hopefully this weekend i am also instructed to apologize to ken and debbie i must try and answer your last letter it would appear that you are more important than i had realized in the scheme of things gary shortly after gary became almost evasive about their discussions and seemingly disappeared into the night ken describes this situation as strange and frustrating as it didn't put them any further forward in being able to prove the phenomena 2109 had in fact seemingly used ken to communicate with gary about the future and now gary's only concern was keeping those details close to his chest [Music] the final messages to come through from thomas provided the detail we were perhaps all most intrigued about how the limbs had appeared to him shining apparently as a green light from the walls of his chimney as translated into a more modern tongue by peter trinder he writes i never feared for my soul so much in my life but so afraid was i that i couldn't move away from this strange messenger he said fear not good thomas you are starred to be a great man if you do not have fear but keep your faith strong then after other words which i do confess but not like devil talk he was gone leaving the limbs which appeared to be the same as your computer thomas detailed that by speaking towards the liems words would appear automatically suggesting that on his part there was no typing as such involved and presumably the contents would save automatically whether he witnessed a floppy disk drive grinding away is unknown but clearly it's a good job they weren't using a cassette deck for storage how thomas received the messages is less clear and any logical answer would come with its own set of challenges and complications regardless it was strange perhaps that this information would come so late in this journey thomas signed off with a promise that he would write a book about the whole matter for future generations to find and read one day you will all sit down at my table for wine and meat by the river in oxford where we shall read each other's books and laugh and we shall speak of truth and good men watching oxford change together forevermore in your time my book is old but i shall not go to my god until it is written then we will all be truly embraced my love to you all i shall await you in oxford thomas hardin with 2109 also finishing their communication shortly after there is another person to come they will be the help we need you will know them when they come thomas did eventually write his book and soon died shortly after he placed it in a secure place it shouldn't take too many years to find it though he wrote it in latin with the help of a friend that he met in oxford the inscription reads me writes this in the hope that mine fellows will one day find this book then may other lands be not so distant putting an end to this rather strange affair but also dangling a carrot that if anyone should find thomas's original book his original account of this adventure from the 16th century perspective then it would once and for all prove that everything suggested here was in fact the truth who knows maybe one day someone will find this book tucked away under an oxford college floorboard maybe i'll go on the quest myself it would certainly make for a compelling follow-up video but until then it's very much a single-sided ghost story albeit with various witnesses and a bbc micro at the heart of it [Music] now i've carved out what i feel to be the main part of the story for this video but this is a 350 page book and ken's whole account of it is a very strange read indeed not just in the story but also how it's written it's pretty hard to make sense of what's going on the story feels disparate disjointed and in a way i guess that actually gives credence to it being a real set of events recorded vaguely from memory by someone who isn't a writer and using the communications that ken had printed and kept stored in a wallet for several years indeed this book wouldn't be written until at least not printed until 1989 some three years after the events finished so if you were to suggest that the whole debacle was just a money-making venture it seems odd that they'd wait so long to publish their account of it years after the stories in the press had faded away the last section of the book is occupied with peter trinder's analysis of the messages and it's perhaps that which is the most compelling of all here he goes into great lengths explaining how he had to dig deep into past iterations of the oxford english dictionary and other references to ascertain exactly what the words from thomas meant and how this would be impossible to work backwards he goes on to explain how this research and 15th century documents such as the past and letters from east anglia and seeley letters from london helped to date the text of the mid-16th century and of southwestern origin there are also a list of words he couldn't place but through the power of the internet can now be tracked down and actually makes sense in the 16th century context his view was that this couldn't have been a hoax and in that 1996 episode of out of this world went on camera to declare so if somebody was doing this as a hoax they would have had to do one hell of a lot of research i can honestly say it was me i mean but you believe all you don't believe i knew that it was me and i did not believe that it could be ken that was the assumption i started with when he first gave me this strange piece of paper over the school dinner table one day and said do you understand this and i said well let me take it have a look at it knowing i got the dictionary and i thought well now this dictionary will soon prove that this is a bit of silly nonsense but of course it didn't you can't fault his enthusiasm but the show's own investigation into the topic yielded quite a different response looking at the verb structure there are things which lucas says that would not have been said in 1546 it's true that individuals can make up individual words but we don't make up our verbs it's possible or it was possible in england in 1546 to say i do thou dust he she or it doth he she or it does but it wasn't possible to say i doth or he she or it dust now all the way through um lucas's messages he mixes and messes up these suffixes with the wrong subject uh if it's meant to look like early modern english writing it doesn't even look close ken and debbie's appearance on the same show was very different and although they were interviewed declined to be shown on camera do you think there could be a normal explanation for what was going on i'm sure there will be a normal explanation but not currently no i mean i'm as puzzled as the next person as to what was happening all i managed to do was to record what happened we've had the lucas's messages analyzed by two experts they have said that these are definitely not from the 16th century they are like 20th century hoaxes i don't think i suppose there's an academic in the land who would say this is real not anybody wanted to keep their position and to be fair to ken this was the 90s anything weird back then had a huge stigma attached to it i actually tracked down who i believed to be ken webster myself however he assured me that i had the wrong person telling me that he gets messages like this from time to time and detailing all the other ken websters that exist so maybe i did have the wrong person or maybe ken just wants to wash his hands of this debacle completely as for the man named gary rowe well he has made several apparent appearances on forums and message boards still apparently a believer in the whole debacle i had the opportunity to investigate these happenings first hand no i am not some away with the fairies wishful believer i investigated with professional detachment not bothered what i would find fake or fact i left no stone unturned and used cutting-edge science to get to the truth in fact i believe it was the first computer controlled psychic investigation recorded in the world i don't care two hoots if nobody ever believes it i know it really happened it changed my life it is going to change yours the book should will one day be isbn recorded under the history section it is a monumental historical marker in the ribbon of time whether this is actually gary rowe is a pertinent question it may well be but even if it is we don't really know his original involvement we only know what we've been told ken's friend john has also popped up in the odd forum back in 2007 he wrote on unexplainedmysteries.com i actually lived in the house with ken webster a few years prior to the occurrences he wrote about in the book and i have to say that i never experienced any of the phenomenon that ken did and i would have to say that the cottage never had any bad or odd vibes in fact it was one of the most peaceful places you could imagine but also ken was a pretty serious type of person he had a great sense of humor but was a fairly solitary and sensitive kind of guy certainly not the type of person to leave himself open to public ridicule especially not by writing a book that would make him out to be a bit of a loon really like many of these stories it's down to our own investigation imagination and intuition to unravel what was going on here do i believe it myself no i consider myself pretty open-minded but there are too many loose ends inconsistencies and areas which are just left hanging in the air the spr for example never really seemed to grasp the technology they were dealing with data being sent down the earth wire just sounds ridiculous and yet they never seem to ponder more realistic ideas such as perhaps a dummy version of edward could have been programmed into the micro collecting keystrokes as it went it's perhaps far-fetched in itself but not so far-fetched as the reality then there's the mysterious tachyon entities from 2109 who seem to enter at just the right moment to act as a scapegoat for many of the historical inaccuracies given by lucas they're the ones that coin time as being held in a vertical plane and in later sections of the book they make claims of interfering with and altering lucas's messages in order to make them easier for ken to understand this is also the explanation given for the bizarre use of grammar in those earlier messages then there's the fact that 2109 use weird spelling themselves you could argue this is due to language continuing to evolve up until that time but the spelling is wildly inconsistent with some words being spelt with three or four different variations a quirk of the phenomena perhaps but the reality is it makes it feel like a poorly thought out hoax in fact from the point they enter the vibe given off is that the orchestrator of this whole campaign becomes overwhelmed with the task leaving too many loose threads it's like watching lost all over again then there's the strong correlation between the number of times that debbie was left alone and messages appearing on the computer it's strange but during the spr investigations and when other people were in the house nothing seemed to happen this is of course by ken's own account which along with the fact he intentionally seems to imply how skeptical he was of the whole endeavor and that he really didn't care makes it feel like a force to double bluff but then there are also various intriguing details which although might appear as a fabrication from the human mind could actually be argued as a supernatural coincidence or happening the fact that lucas became thomas harden with two spelling variations but coincidentally sharing the same name as the school and village that ken and peter taught at almost feels too serendipitous but then in medieval times people were often referred to as thomas from harden before family names were adopted so given his location maybe this actually does fit well with the story and his subsequent discovery on the brace notes register whatever you conclude there's no denying that the whole thing is weird it's weird in its nature it's weird in its portrayal and it's also weird from a technical standpoint some have suggested that the whole debacle may have been more convincing had the bbc been networked up rather than sitting as a closed system but really would that have made a difference if it were networked it still infers the existence of a time traversing box connected to it but messages were passed through a network might fit with our conventional modern day view of sending and receiving messages but it still doesn't explain away this supernatural element besides the econet functionality obvi was rather limited and so even if it were connected to a network anything like this was outside of its scope and it's that premise which really structures my view this is a vintage technology channel not a ghost channel my view is naturally going to be skeptical and weighed towards the confines of how a bbc micro can operate in the real world which apart from the workings of edward this tale is securely outside of whatever your view you can't deny that it's an intriguing and compelling story even if you extract all the time traveling elements and ghost scenarios but in my view that's mainly because it makes use of that mighty piece of engineering the bbc micro after all that's why i've covered it if you want to delve deeper into the story and get some other perspectives then i thoroughly recommend these sources there you'll find deeper and darker insights than i can go into here as i started researching into this i just found myself going deeper and deeper down so many hulls of research i could spend my life here and who knows if i did i might actually be convinced that this really did all happen after all there are plenty of people who are completely convinced of its reality maybe they just want to be convinced of its reality but there's plenty of similar cases of the electronic voice phenomenon to explore but the dark histories podcast i found to be particularly fascinating and it's a good place to start as i was saying earlier if there's enough interest in this video i may delve deeper so if you'd like to see an episode where i head down to bresnos college and seek a book written in the 16th century or you'd like me to head over to doddlestone and set up camp inside meadow cottage with a bbc micro if i can even do that then please let me know in the comments i feel 2022 could definitely be a good year for excursions and investigations but until next time i've been nostalgia nerd toodaloo so [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] you

Channel: Nostalgia Nerd

Views: 2,109,565

Keywords: the vertical plane, ken webster, dodleston messages, bbc micro

Id: nEDgG5MKndo

Length: 43min 2sec (2582 seconds)

Published: Wed Nov 17 2021

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[u/VariousPreference0]

Astonishing legends podcast did this one recently, worth listening to. The episodes are titled “The Vertical Plane” (the name of the guys book).

[u/FoundObjects4]

Has anyone read The Vertical Plane? Wondering if it’s worth the steep price.

[u/burl0715]

Just watched the full vid. Weird stuff for sure.

[u/rocketbunny77]

Seems like it will be an interesting watch. Thanks

[u/Eequal]

That’s super cool. Imagine future internet will make us communicate with the past internet.

[u/irrelevantappelation]

Username checks out