This House Believes New Labour Ruined Britain | The Cambridge Union

come good evening everyone welcome for me for the last time to the Cambridge Union for our last event event debate of length term tonight has a star-studded political lineup debating the motion this house believes new labor ruined Britain as ever the debate is a series of alternating speeches firstly in proposition then in opposition and so on there will be we have got eight speakers today so they'll be floor speeches for all rounds that is after the second speaker and then again after the sixth speaker you are also entitled to interrupt any speaker preferably not me at any point during your during their speech it is up to them they were they should take those points and if they do decide not to please respect that that is their right and tonight is also the handover to the Easter term presidency so I'm afraid I was gonna have to endure a very short handover ceremony and where we'll just switch over the officers that have done such a great job this term hadn't replaced them with those we're going to do an equally good if not better job next up so firstly our ents officer Natalia Marg this term has done a genuinely fantastic job she's gone away put on a whole range of fun and diverse ends and I'm personally very grateful when I know the whole committee is very grateful for the job she's done she will be replaced by Lucille Asma our treasure oh this term has been anastagia bugatti rover got that she has been professional efficient and her love of all things financial have kept us all going this term when it comes to money just budget is one of the most detailed I've ever seen and she's been a great great part of the team anastagia will be replaced by Daniel Houma Danny way an exporter has been our speakers off of this sir speakers off so this term you only need to look at the term card to see how exceptional and that is not any exaggeration at all the job she has done we've had everyone from Fabio Capello to David Blaine to Roger Penrose to Pamela Anderson and that is all Alex is doing she's also been a great great source of support and help to me and all the committee and I think we all owe a huge thank-you Alex will be replaced by Imogen shot at last but by no means least dynamo bed here has been our executive officer this term that role involves a lot of work which is often thankless which doesn't get the credit it deserves and leads to lots of people I've done the role myself coming up to you saying what actually do you do the answer is a great great deal as a lot of behind the scenes administration and a lot of work goes into making the Union more diverse more accessible and making it function on a day to day basis Joanna has done all of those things exceptionally I owe a huge thank you we all owe a huge thank you she's been brilliant as she will be replaced by Emily get ins and finally and being in charge of this society the last term has been a great deal of fun I can't really put it into words were an amazing experience it's been I am delighted that the person I'm handing over to will have that experience too there are very very few people I know who care about this society as much as Joel Fenster does who have put in as much work as Joel Fenster does and will do as sterling a brilliant a job as Joel will do in every position he's held here he's been superb his work and helping all of my community this term has been invaluable and I personally I'm really looking forward to seeing what while I know be an amazing job the Joel dude next to Joe thank you very much to Ben I just want to pay tribute to Ben in the whole of the lent team who have done an absolutely fantastic job have led the Union through some fantastic times and really on behalf of everyone here at the Union thank you so much for everything you've done thank you now that's enough of the emotional side on the motion tonight this house believes new labor has ruined Britain I'd like to invite Ben Harris Quinny to open the debate for the proposition Ben is the current chairman of the bow group the former chairman of the Foreign Policy Research Committee and a leading contributor to many national newspapers Ben well ladies and gentlemen it as the most experienced politician here this evening I think it's only right that I begin proceedings I spent last night in a purely platonic sense with the daughter of the assassinated Cuban opposition leader Osvaldo Peyer until this month the Cuban government had refused to allow Rosa paya to leave the country and she has since been traveling Europe trying to find leaders who will step up speak out and take action against the communist Cuban regime she is thus far been unsuccessful in finding any and she asked me having been restricted in her knowledge of international affairs for many years where have all the leaders gone where are the Reagan's where are the Thatcher's my response was in a metaphysical sense buried under Anthony Giddens patio in Cuba they kill leaders with strong voices of vision and principle but in the United Kingdom we now do far worse we destroy them before they have a chance to become leaders when I look at the decrepit legacy of Tony Blair and New Labour the mess they left of the British economy society and a place in the world by far the worst far worse than any of that is the politics of the Third Way for which in Britain New Labour were the architects and under whose vicious yoke we still live under new Labor's third way vision long term strategy and core ideologies were dead the future of Western governments were indisputably focus groups constant polling and short-term espress is politics the homogeneous mass of a weak political class couldn't resist telling the demos whatever they wanted to hear all are equal under the European Union multiculturalism works large personal and national debt is a fact of life everyone should go to university everyone must own a home Wars and failed States only happen in distant lands every nation can expect consistent grow the boom will last forever clear political leadership a genuine battle of ideas true freedom of debate in Parliament and Beyond were the first casualties of third wave politics in the early millennium there are placement with spin and political corrector tude were barely noticed at first and then hevelius waged by a cult of individual consumerism and profligacy by debt that served as a sufficient distraction 15 years later from when this populist calls started to hurt we stand where head has started to kill its depth and spread have been so comprehensive that removing third way politics from our politics may be enough to kill it off altogether governed as we are by the heir to Blair we are still very much living under new leg of Labour's legacy and the enforcement of the regime in media and politics is as rigid as ever and far more comprehensive and widespread then the Castro brothers could dream of political correctness sits astride fear and rejection of dynamic and principled debate it is a tyranny of nothingness but the lack of substance it offers a nation is increasingly realized and criticized by its citizenry grasping for any source of protest available when the rare politician of character and authenticity does break through the white noise whether we agree with them or not we have begun to embrace them as a society with a great hunger and fascination and when Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage appear to be the most authentic and genuine politicians in Britain neither of whom with a voice in Parliament the only conclusion must be that our politics has stalled and will not return to strength nationally until it passes from Blaire's Britain this lack of direction and leadership at the top of British politics is now manifesting itself with a dangerously divergent and discordant society with at best a brittle coalition between top and awesome this is perfectly exemplified by former bow group chairman Sam gamers 2012 news night appearance in which he set out to investigate the lack of black and minority ethnic conservative voters he was told by bishop joe Aldred a black birmingham church leader that the community had been raised to vote labor but on social issues like gay marriage where members of the community may have once considered voting conservative the party have moved away he was met with the response that all ethnic minorities had to understand that if they want equality themselves they have to accept every other minority parties vision of equality this was heard with blunt disdain and who Aldred who found no party in British politics could adequately represent his community the recent issue of gay marriage in British politics proved both symptom and poultice of New Labour's Britain rather than a society united by a progressive vision we saw the catholic soho church with an ever-growing eastern european membership that once offered an open door for gay people to worship closed its doors the week after the gay marriage vote of greater concern was the lack of engagement of the Muslim community in Britain which taken with the Catholic Church may not seem significant but on its own the deafening silence in the Muslim community I believe is one imam commentated that the moral code and the representation of the british parliament had now fallen so far from the muslim community that they had disregarded it preferring to adhere to private community laws many if not all of you will no doubt be looking at me and wondering who I am who is this sitting next to Mitchell Hitchens and Redwood great stalwarts of the white right and yes and yes and yes my stature is far more Junior but in the immortal words of my doppelganger William Hague some of them won't be here in 30 or 40 years and perhaps I won't either but for my generation if our politics is to have any significance or longevity to UK citizens our task alongside anything else we do whether it is to the left or whether it is to the right must be to bring an end to the politics of the Third Way the most poisonous legacy of New Labour thank you thank you very much it's now my great pleasure to introduce Benjamin kentish outgoing president of the Cambridge Union and a third year PPS student at Emmanuel College Thank You Joel mr. president now I must admit I haven't had a great deal of time this week to prepare this speech and sitting in my room earlier trying to put some words on paper I decided that desperate times call for desperate measures I did something I certainly never expected to do I phoned them by OPIC following his appearance here last week and the popularity it always seems to gain in this chamber I did it I phoned Lembit Opik for advice and he said to me speak slowly he said um have a clear point of what you want to say and whatever you do stay clear of the Cheeky Girls so I'll try and sit care take that on board tonight I've got to say Jonah's really doing a better job than I did at this point in my first debate I had already sent various beats of audio equipment crashing to the floor so well done Johan avoiding that problem ladies and gentlemen mr. president I want to start tonight with some truths some admissions new labor did not get everything right it made mistakes sometimes big ones it did not always do the right thing now let's get some of the some of these out the way now because I'm sure the proposition will bring them to attention later on to scout over but to mention pushing the boundaries boundaries on civil liberties selling off our gold on the cheap not saving enough money for a rainy day failing to properly regulate the banks and tackle inequality or to meet its own targets on child poverty those on the house accept the new labor did get things wrong but what tonight's debate is not is a debate on where the new labor was perfect or really either whether it was good although I certainly think it was the motion tonight is that new labor ruined Britain so to win this debate the proposition needs to prove to the house that Britain is a ruin country and that is new Labor's fault not just that new labor maybe did slightly more harm than good again I don't think that's the case but that can't be their argument they have to prove to us that Britain is a ruined country a country that lies in tatters and that is these people on this side of the house is fault I personally think that sounds more like a Daily Mail front page and it does a convincing argument but we'll see hater on point of information didn't you write the motion I did write them over I think it's a very good motion so thank you okay how you are for a job in the day mouth moving on in other words as I was saying this side need to dismiss our vibrant culture our national heritage our traditions our diverse society and influence in the world they need to show that our country as a ruined one and convinced you all of that but it would be wrong in my view deeply wrong for this debate to be won on the semantics of the motion because while labor did get things wrong and we accept that they also got a hell of a lot right now I know my colleagues will want to discuss the finer details of economic records and specific policies and I will come to that later but I want to touch on something broader and look for a bigger picture for now I want to talk about values and to talk about history and I'm glad the bed made the point about the Third Way because that's what I'm going to come to in a minute to argue that new labor ruined Britain suggests the country inherited in 1997 was an overwhelming success and that new labor destroyed that I want to argue the opposite because in reality Thatcher and her government ruined much of what was great about Britain and reality new labor began the process of rebuilding it 18 years of Tory governments had left Britain fractured demoralized and confused the idea that economic success and individual progression must come at the cost of fairness and collective unity was imprinted on the consciousness of our nation Thatcher's emphasis on the individual her insistence on imposing a dog-eat-dog each man or women for their own culture left our society fractured and at the point of breaking unsure of its place in Europe unsure of its place in the world and unsure of its own identity this is the landscape at which labour came to power is something I don't think I need first-hand knowledge of the factors era to use a similar comparison I don't think I need first-hand knowledge of living in the trenches I wasn't born I don't think that disqualifies me from making an argument about a case in history any more than as I was saying this is the landscape on which labor came to power it inherited a Britain fractured by division divided by ethnic class divides and general unrest with its core interest is decimated and it's society shattered Thatcher's Britain left a social underclass abandoned by its government with little hope or prospects prospects and a government that blame those individuals for being in that position this is what New Labour faced in 97 and what did it do Ben is right to talk about the Third Way and I'm going to argue that the Third Way was a compromise between two somewhat extreme ideologies and the only solution facing Britain at that point in time taking what was good about Thatcherism the idea of aspiration of people wanting to get honor to succeed and the strength of a modern economy it molded them into a frankly more moral form it promoted them in a framework that allowed for the idea that people did not exist nor want to exist in a vacuum in which only their own success and progression mattered and anything in an economic sense New Labour found a new path has been accept a new path that promoted individual freedom over collective restrictions that the old labour promoted and it did so with a heavy dose of humanity and of deeper morality and of depth than its Tory predecessors it ditched the dogma and some of the extremities of old labour and took what was best from that the idea of a cohesive solid society and merged it with the Thatcherite desire to help people get on as individuals and it led to a new compromise a third way that at that point in time was the only realistic prospect that would push Britain forward it merge them into a new unique and a new ideology and that is something that in my view we should be crediting New Labour for that middle path promoted aspiration and hope and ambition but it pursued him in a way to still believe in something that was bigger than themselves it gave people belief that there was still something more the idea of society ridiculed by facture was brought back with a vengeance and in a stronger more liberal fairer form it was a society that existed to allow the individuals it to get on support them in doing so rather than holding them back so let's not talk Britain down let's recognize that Britain is far from perfect that New Labour was far from perfect but our nation is a fundamentally fair prosperous and a great one think carefully about what voting in favor of this motion will declare in Britain a ruined nation really means but let's focus on specifics for a moment and I'm sure Andy hazel and Lisa will come to this later but let's look just for a moment at what Labour did for us to those who say labour ruined Britain their left is bankrupt either economically or morally that have left us with nothing to show for thirteen years in power let's have a look at what actually happened on health NHS the shortest waiting times in history cancer treatment times down increased choice record investment in our health system in education record results in schools and more university students than ever before and more than that the winter fuel allowance devolution civil partnership shorter the minimum wage crime down by 1/3 maternity pay paternity leave the Disability Discrimination Act peace in Northern Ireland and half a million children out of poverty that is the Britain that Labour left and that is the legacy that we should recognize tonight people people household up and yes sir suit of primary and secondary to get you I'd only do the worse in Europe I disagree I think record result I think record results in schools would suggest otherwise and as I say maybe you know think there's still clearly room for improvement but I think Labor's certainly started making that improvement now to conclude people and households up and down this country and many of us inside this chamber to know benefited from those change changes that I just outlined and that Labour made and we live better lives because of it however hard the current government may try to undo undo them that legacy injures the society that Labour left us in in 2010 was fairer and stronger and more cohesive than the one it inherited in 1997 it was a prosperous more influential in the world and more tolerant of its minority communities the country we live in today is a bright vibrant Democratic one a beacon in many ways for the rest of the world labour did not ruin Britain it rebuilt it and I urge you to oppose the motion thank you very much we're now going to go into the first of two rounds of floor speeches during this debate so if anyone would like to make a point in proposition please raise your hand I'll select you and if you begin with your name and college and rate from microphone we'd be grateful so that anybody like to make a point in favor of the proposition that's the proposition please you just wait for microphone to get to you and begin with your name and college I'd like to touch on a point which I don't think will perhaps get a lot of attention in this Bay in this debate and that is the marginal tax rates faced by the very poorest in society under new labor the people moving from benefits and into work now it actually happens that in many cases the tax and benefit system that labor constructed and put in placement these people face the marginal tax rate of over a hundred percent how can that be right how can it be right the people on benefits were often better off not looking for work than they would be if they had gotten into a job how can it be right that these people were penalized so badly for doing the right thing that they were encouraged to stay on benefits by the system that Labour constructed rather than being encouraged to move off welfare and into work and under labor we saw long-term unemployment rise from about 2000 well before the recession has hit why because they had constructed the system which failed the poor they had done nothing to correct it and when Frank field had tried to he'd been dismissed by Gordon Brown and thrown out the cabinet so labour failed the poorest in our society thank you thank you could I get a point in opposition to the motion could you get a microphone over there Thanks I I'm not gonna pretend that Labour didn't have shortcomings because it was remotely socialist enough for me I'm sorry guys but I think there's something really important to remember that um labour introduced capitalism of human face like it it would use a corner of the neoliberal dogma of Thatcherism and we start to see a political political economy that had had more virtue it was more just free things a minimum wage which still not high enough but labor conservatives opposed working tax credits which were introduced which the conservative want to cut and an hour cutting and increased rights increased rights against every time a unfair dismissal which the most many conservatives want to get rid of altogether and I think that's something to be remembered that something to let something to be desired for future governments and that's why labor is going to be trusted with be trusted again with majority and next general election thank you could I get a point in abstention of the motion you over there Thanks my fellow students ladies and gentlemen whatever else is in here um I'm suspect and one of the few people in this place who's actually had to live in several societies that have been ruined a demeans civil war ruined tyrant ruined so you'd expect so Britain isn't ruined so you expect me to voting against this if it weren't for a fact that the speaker in opposition is clearly trying to pull a fast one the attitude of the Opposition is that Britain is not purulent but it was there was the terrible demon Thatcher and then along came new which ruined Britain into a state of beggary and then along came the noble knights The Shining Galahad's of New Labour who led it into this upland of perfection we say out there I've suggested a strongly you vote in abstention and vote not to be treated like complete fools thank you thank you we'll do another round now and then we'll have another round of floor speeches later on during the debate so can I get another point in proposition of the motion we go up there do you have any microphones upstairs yes Richard Parkins Trinity College and by the way I'm not still a student I did manage to get my degree some time ago then was saying words to the effect that new labor encouraged people to work for society and to build a better Britain the people that knew labour encouraged with the bankers to pay themselves huge bonuses and destroy their banks the Conservatives didn't do that think it alright Ben would like to reply to that point very briefly just very quickly I think you have to look at who is arguing for even more even less sorry regulation during that period I think you'll find it was the people sitting opposite I'm not saying labor good it's spot on I've accepted the regulation wasn't enough under new labor but to say as the person over here did that it did nothing in dragging 700,000 children out of poverty in introducing the minimum wage that it only catered for the bankers I don't think is a true reflection of the fact thank you can I get a speech in opposition of the motion go over here - Ben Ben Jones Hamilton College I'd like to actually just put your point in which which is a bit worse or personal to me one of my absolute heroines is mo Mowlam who's not actually I'm sure we would have invited us to the debate if she was still around today but sadly she's not um and one that I think you're and briefly touched on it one of the huge huge successes of New Labour which really I think isn't promulgated enough today to be honest is peace in Northern Ireland if you're like me and you weren't you weren't really clear sort of very old when the Good Friday Agreement happened I'd really recommend you look back at some of the news reports which were ran back then fused on the BBC website and have a look at the absolute pessimism which existed before before Good Friday was signed new labor when you're when they management when I'm not saying your new labor it was just New Labour who caused the peace clearly it wasn't required yeah absolutely we've quite a huge amount of cooperation here from many many many people but Tony Blair you play your be played a very very important role mo Mowlam played a particularly important role and go even going directly into prisons in Northern Ireland to actually input herself in personal danger to be able to you to to reach a peace agreement yeah I think personally it's just such a heaven to me I really wanted to make this point and just to say when we're talking about didn't you leave a failed written let's remember they didn't fail at least Northern Ireland thanks thank you and finally for this round could I get a speech and abstention of the motion to go over there hi my name is Marco I'm in Queens I just want to point out an abstention that in this debate nobody was invited from a kind of more left-wing perspective saying that New Labour actually just continued Margaret Thatcher's way and did not really radically change the privatisation and all of that drive Nyoka neoliberal drive that Margaret Thatcher lounged and I thought that the Union was very good in past debate and having people arguing from very different perspectives for emotion and I thought that would have been great to have more kind of radical left-wing people arguing for this notion that new labor actually ruins Britain by continuing in Margaret Thatcher's way Thanks thank you very much and now we're turning to our main speakers we have John redwood a highly influential back-bencher former Secretary of State for Wales and twice contessa for the conservative leadership thank you mr. president ladies and gentlemen it was interesting that the proposer referred to the fact that some of us might not be around for too long and I would just like to reassure the proposals one of the main reasons I and people of my age stay in one of the three main political parties in this country is it is so good for our morale because you know I find that when I go around the political meetings I'm still the youngest person in the meeting and the the charming ladies who come think I'm a bright young man who might have a future one day so it is extreme extremely good for morale and it is very unusual to be in an audience with some people who seem to be a little younger than I am and you are you are very welcome to the world of politics it is no difficult task answering the the gentleman there when he made such a compelling case about how awful the labor government was and I find it actually very easy though that he's constructed such a moderate and modest motion is to say that new labor merely ruined Britain is a wonderful understatement ladies and gentlemen so we won't need to spend very long establishing this point we have such a galaxy of talent competing for the title of who did most ruin our great country I particularly enjoyed John Prescott I remember him coming once to tell us that the Greenbelt was one of the great achievements goodness me John Prescott seems to be objecting already just the sort of noises off you get from new labor ladies and good night but it John came and he said that the green belt was one of the great United Kingdom achievements and he intended to build on it what a fine outstanding statement there was ladies Goodwin and then of course there was Gordon Brown who was competing to be the world's greatest fund manager and he decided to sell all our gold at the bottom of the market just before the biggest bull market in gold you've ever seen it was very thoughtful Gordon to allow all those gold speculators to get access to so much gold just before it took off he took the profits out of Britain because he quite rightly thought he was quite wrong the way the British people should enjoy the profits on our gold when it started to shoot up very happy I don't seem to think Gordon Brown was very successful in stopping the boom in the gold market he just made sure that we the British people didn't participate all previous governments are very kindly positioned as extremely well and Gordon thought the profits should be transferred elsewhere but my main charge against the Labour government is why ruin Britain was just that that heat damaged it from within and it damaged it from without Gordon Brown and Tony Blair were the men who made Alex Salmond possible they were the men who gave Alex salmon the job the keys to government in Scotland the First Minister they were the people who set up the referendum shortly to be held in Scotland about independence far from ending the country their devolution policies tore the country apart it was so obvious that they were going to damage the country they were feeding the beast of nationalism rather than reassuring people and drawing them in they created division where we needed Union do you know the worse yes of course I always did it was a typical New Labour trick that they would give a film without giving you the soundtrack that was exactly what New Labour was like all the time that was the best they could do because they thought the other things I'm doing rather good I look forward to renditions from the right on all gentle in due course let us see who's best at the singing test but we we saw a country being torn apart by a ill thought through devolution policy which fuelled nationalism and didn't understand the sensibilities of the English and British people the English weren't allowed to exist we had to be written off the map taken out of the script we weren't allowed to be English our country had to be broken up into bogus regions that meant nothing to us I was told I was a Thames Valley man or a South of England man or rest of the south east man or occasionally I was allowed to be the whole of the South Eastern man it was complete nonsense ladies and gentlemen we had no spirit and feeling in these stupid boxes that New Labour wanted to put us in they wouldn't let us be English they wouldn't that just be British they wanted a break our country up into phony regions because of course they wanted to subjugate it to the European Union because at exactly the same time when they were destroying it from within they were giving it away abroad we had nice we had Amsterdam we had the constitutional treaty renamed the Lisbon Treaty but it was and is the European Constitution he took massive powers of self-government away from our country it has done so much damage to our democracy and every Minister and every ministerial team that follows this shower who dare to do that to our country will find it very difficult or impossible to govern us properly in the democratic way that we wish we cannot have our own energy policy it is dictated from Brussels we cannot control our borders that is dictated from Brussels we cannot have our own welfare policy because the European Court settles to whom we pay benefits and how much we pay we cannot have our own judicial policy because European courts under the ECHR and the ECJ presume to overturn our judgments or to make decisions for us they give away democratic legitimacy stems from ignorance destruction I'm pleased to hear it I have written a bit about it the European Commission's but the purely policy for council when it's necessary to lend it to let its legitimacy of European Commission needs a second absolute element of the European Council which is of course in terms of the heads of governments the Member States it's very similar arrangements limiting the legitimacy of the House of Lords in specific Commons more democratic system which facilitates the inference European Council I think everybody for being favor no such system works I think that's it I think you've probably had rather a long time to make your very boring point there is no proper accountable democracy in the European Union and now that we have a flattering Parliament trying to flex these muscles what an insult to the British Parliament we alas find something that labour and the Conservatives and I believe the Liberal Democrats all agree about that there should be some cuts in the budget at European Union level because they waste more and go in for inappropriate spending at a time of austerity we get that through the Council of Ministers by great negotiating and by the strength of the United British Parliament and then this poppycock Parliament decides to overturn the settle will of the British people in their government you make my point exactly sir we do not govern our own country any more in the way that we wish because New Labour gave it away but just to finish the country up I didn't have time so unfortunately because I'd love to take your point just to finish it off New Labour arrange the biggest boom and bust you've ever seen you couldn't get you couldn't make it up they spent the whole of their time in office saying they wouldn't have any more booms and busts and they created the biggest one since the 1930s and they did it by gross incompetence they completely reorganized the way of regulating the city it was Brown's idea on how the city should be regulated they massively increased the amount of material on the statute book they increased the number of regulations but they missed the main point they didn't control the cash in capital they didn't control the balance sheets as some of us were urging them to do from the sidelines they inherited the powers they could have done the job they weren't up to it they blew it and then just to make it worse they then flipped and decided to destroy the very banks they had allowed to be so grossly inflated by they're mistaken regulatory policies and they brought the banks down with the Bank of England they went far too tough they lurch from the extreme of too generous to the extreme of too tough and they ended up having to nationalize the banks and lumber the British taxpayer with enormous cost yes they ruined Britain they shattered the economy they shattered the hopes and aspirations of many people they destroyed people's property values they gave the country away to Europe and they undermined it from within that is why it is such a difficult task for any future government to sort it out and rebuild our vital crucial central democracy thank you very much our next speaker is hazel bliss who in addition to having been Secretary of State for local communities and government is one of the most recognizable faces of the new Labor era hazel well good evening ladies and gentlemen I'm delighted to be surrounded by young people from every background from lots of different countries around the globe I think it's a fantastic representation of what New Labour really had at the heart of our philosophy and that was about having a country that was open a country that recognized talent a country that wanted to make the most of everybody and the things that they had to give to our community having said that I'm rather sorry mr. president that the diversity of our opposing team is slightly narrowing this evening and it's really not their fault but for me sitting here and facing facing just one moment just facing four and very respectable white men of the right indicates to me that this is the politics of history not the politics of the future but John and I made the pledge there's a huge age gap okay old right-wing goes new right-wingers you know it was always the same I'll tell you this in these two bends I know which Ben I prefer but it has to be said in in the modern Tory Party there are more Tory MPs called John than there are women and I think that tells you something about the water to two points of information if I'm a verse so how do you know I'm respectable well secondly the use of the use of the word white and the reference to the color of a person's skin seems to me to be unacceptable in any direction whatsoever what we're concerned about is the content of people's characters not the color of their skin I think it's extraordinary yes we are concerned about the content of people's character but I think it's absolutely important in a modern country that we do not limit the ability and the talents and the contribution that people have to make and my political experience throughout the last 30 years or so and actually I was around with the time of Margaret Thatcher it was Margaret Thatcher who made me join the Labour Party in 1979 I I think that all my experience in politics is that debate is better democracy is better ideas are more contested where we have people from different backgrounds from different life experiences and that we don't have particularly politicians who all come dare I say from increasingly from a very narrow elitist career politician background so I think it's right it's about your character but it's also about drawing the tons of everybody in our country and I make no apology for saying that I think politics in general is still too narrowly drawn and doesn't represent a modern diverse Britain that I believe is a legacy of New Labour not enough because we haven't had any and I certainly would have liked in I suppose just before my era to have seen Barbara castle as the first Labour Prime Minister I think she would have been absolutely fantastic now just to get on to my contribution I just want to put a lie to this business about the lit that the Labour government you know spent all the money left us bankrupt this is a lie that is promulgated time and time again by the Conservative Party and in fact in the Financial Times yesterday in a coruscating analysis of the Tory party Martin wolf actually said that in the 10 years from 1997 to 2007 that the share is spending in GDP rose by only 1 point 2 percent so actually this lie that we were profligate we were extravagant we spent all the money is used by the Tory party I think in an extremely dishonest way to try and buttress their own position and isn't it interesting ladies and gentlemen that the motion we have before us is about the past because the Conservative Party don't want to talk about the mess that they are currently making of our economy that's a good friend right just clarify what is not the outgoing Labor Treasury secretary who at the end of the Labor government has no successor say there is no money left do you know what's really good is I must have provoked them enough now that they want to come back which is great gone gone been rich government had the greatest economic inheritance and the worst economic legacy and what well I mean III think that this myth that somehow the Labour government in 1997 inherited a golden economic situation I'll tell you this but I've lived in Salford for all of my life I'm privileged to represent the city where I was born and brought up in 1997 my city was on its knees our health service was virtually destroyed half the children at Primary School couldn't read and write properly I had twenty percent of people getting five GCSEs I now have 76 percent I have a brand-new hospital I have brand-new schools don't tell me that in 1997 we had a golden economic legacy the poorest people in this country were utterly betrayed by the Tory government led by Margaret Thatcher if i can just press on a little perhaps in a karma frame of mind I do think it's interesting that this motion is about the past because I think that the other speakers tonight have a bit of a chargesheet to answer if you look at the industrial output figures just announced on Tuesday this week down by 1.2 percent there is now a possibility that we could be teetering on the brink of a triple dip recession in our country you look at the employment figures nearly a million young people out of work desperate for a future almost a lost generation I look around this room and I see people who've got opportunities and chances in life that perhaps they never would have dreamt of in previous generations we were able to unlock the talent of so many people who would not have had the opportunity to come to university to come to a place like this to do the studying to have the experiences that you will have and we now have a million young people who are facing a future which is pretty desperate and without hope there's fifty four thousand fewer students this year choosing to go to university because of the tripling of tuition fees and yes we brought them in and I make no excuse for that I think it's right to have a balance between what the country pays for and what individuals pay for but to triple them to a place where people now are voting with their feet and deciding that they cannot have the fantastic experience that every single person in this room is enjoying I think there's an absolute disaster for the future and what I believe new labor was about classic didn't labor also intend to triple the tuition fees as when they hear these government's not at all absolutely not and in fact if you if you look at what we're saying at the moment obviously we have to look at what the economy is like but what we've said is that one of our priorities is to review tuition fees and to see can we get them down to a level where people are not having to say that's not something that I want to do I want to see young people with talent with ability to be able to have the opportunity to do things that that they perhaps never would have had the chance to do before and the fact that more people came to university is something that I I am incredibly proud of and coming from the background that I do when when the chance to do further education was simply not on offer it look now at postgraduate education you know there is no support for postgraduate education and more and more people are having to get postgraduate degrees in order to differentiate themselves and get that chance to go on I am fighting a case against Oxford University at the moment about support for postgraduate education because I think that the talent we have in our country is fantastic and I'm very worried that more and more overseas students are able to come but not our own students as well so I think this law on this on this bench here I've got some questions to answer about our current economic state and I'm extremely worried that the foundations we're laying for the future will be extremely difficult for us my other point that I wanted to make this evening is that one of the things that I'm most proud of about New Labour I suppose is third way politics it is about middle way and I've never been a dialectical Marxist I think Ben you're in danger have been been somebody who wants to see simply the clash of ideas for its own sake I think if you can be in touch with people in touch with their aspirations the things that they want you to do most people want to get on they want the kids to have a decent education they want a home and they won't have enough money coming in so that they can do the ordinary things that people take for granted if you can be a political party that keys in to the aspirations of the overwhelming majority of people in this country I think that's what government is about I don't think government is about simply having an academic debate I've served in ministerial office as some of my colleagues here and it's hard work you have to make decisions you do have to make compromises you can't do everything you want to do we didn't get everything right whether it was on welfare or which we should have tackled earlier immigration issues we were never going to be the government of your dreams but I'll tell you this if I look around my city now it's not paradise but it's a damn sight better than it was in 1997 and I do not believe that New Labour ruined this country we laid the foundations for a better future for the vast majority of our people and I'm proud of it thank you very much our next speaker tonight is Peter Hitchens a well-known columnist for The Mail on Sunday author of six books and a man who is famous for speaking his mind Peter I miss president ladies and gentlemen the real problem we face in discussing this matter is twofold there is first of all the problem of stupidity and then there is the problem of political tribalism now I don't come here as any friend of the Conservative Party I have actually belonged to both the major parties in this country and I've left them both in disgust it's it is a question which of them I am more disgusted with if it were anything to do with me this motion would have an amendment to it saying that the New Labour ruined the country Abele assisted by the Conservative Party which I think probably most people in this room could vote for and I would urge you to do so because it is apart from anything else absolutely true I know that a god that the president was not yet born at the time of the events which we're discussing I presume the emotions that were written by his mother but I was alive and that I have here a copy of the the founding document of the New Labour project you know that face before before many things happened and before I go any further I would like to say how surprising I find it they're doing it all the discussion we've had so far one word has not been mentioned at all and that word is Iraq speaker eager over there felt that it was it was shame that there was no representative here of what you may call the hard left to criticize Labour's failures from the left well I'll do it for them to some extent I think the Iraq war was one of the most disgraceful unforgivable blood-stained regrettable acts undertaken by any British government including the serious adventure and I do not think that they can ever apologize enough for it or be ashamed enough of what they did and I think that as long as they continue to live on this earth they should be reminded day after day and night after night of the dreadful things that they did for no good reason illegally and without and without any conceivable what energy I would not I'm saying that it grew better now this summer so you still in power oh okay so if you if you put it life you put it like that absolutely yes because I do not believe in the bombing in the bombing of cities full of civilians I do not believe in the I do not believe in the I do not believe I do not believe in interfering in other people's countries I do not believe we have any business doing it I think it's an act of shame and to dignify your action in that in that form is in a case fundamentally dishonest your own leader said repeatedly during the route to the war you had no intention of removing Saddam Hussein from power his entire excuse was non-existent weapons of mass destruction which you manufactured out of your usual propaganda and lie machine which just sustained you from the very beginning of your careers and continues to sustain you now I am amazed you have the nerve to continue the episode now to make one other small point so to satisfy our left-wing contributor I also was would personally have voted for the Labour Party in 1997 if they would for instance of reen a tional eyes the railways but would they do anything of the kind no they would not because they had moved into a new form of radical left ISM now how I explained to people of your age oh that you have been the victims both of a slow-motion coup d'etat and of some extremely slick and profoundly dishonest public relations which is always being of course a pseudonym for organized lying when you were not you were not yourself adults at the time I'm not quite sure but if I could explain to you my sensations as I as I as I watched this government take shape first of all I had friends who told me particularly I won't name him but he was very very deep in the project who said to me a few days before the 1997 election said you have no idea of how extensive this project is and I took that as a warning I was one of the very few journalists who can claim from the start to have opposed the labor the new labor government and the Blair project from the start perhaps my advantage was that I had met Mr Blair before he was famous and I knew how Olympic Li dim he was and this as I say ignorance and stupidity and centering some stupidity at the at the at the fringe we have had a prime minister who was fundamentally a fraud and he wasn't really the leader of his government and many many people who believe that the Kevins in the working men's clubs and the Nigel's in the golf clubs who simultaneously fool themselves for years that the New Labour government was in fact a Tory government when it it wasn't it was something much much more radical what I found particularly objectionable was the assault upon our Constitution and upon our liberties which which New Labour launched and persisted with there were it was like listening to the tolling of a funeral Bell the issue of special powers who orders in Council to Alastair Campbell and Jonathan Powell never before had any government dared to give unelected persons the authority to order civil service about we had created for the first time in the modern history of this country but the first time really since Henry the seventh political commissar at the heart of government then we had all the developments towards locking people up without trial for as long as possible and and the the attempt to the attempt to introduce identity cards breathing licences dreadful badges of servitude utterly transforming the relation between the citizen and the state turning us into serfs these were the fundamental characters the characteristics of this utterly dishonest and cynical project why was it necessary yes please such a wicked despotic regime hmm why do you think that in our democracy increase three elections the British people to reelect a Labour government so they've not done enough introduce ethnicity it is indeed a it is indeed a puzzle and one which I often lie awake at night tossing and turning wondering but but of course why one does have to remember that the the enormous effort employed by new labor in the years before it came to power in suborning my trade into lying on its behalf and particularly in supporting the BBC into becoming pretty much its propaganda arm and one also has to remember one also has to remember the abject feebleness of the conservative and unionist party now we heard just a small example of this because I've I've gone all evening with about it subject feebleness but there's a lot of talk about Gordon Brown selling off the national guilders which indeed he did and I remember at the time being infuriated by writing about it making a radio programme about it trying to get anybody on the conservative front benches to take the slightest interest Francis Maude who was then as I recall the Shadow Chancellor couldn't care less and in the end it was left to Peter Tapsell and eminence and an extremely distinguished back-bencher to raise the question in Parliament with his own frontbench wouldn't this was typical of the Conservative Party at the time they would not fight they'd had the guts knocked out of them and indeed many of the things which New Labour were doing had in fact impressed by John Major who really was the first New Labour Prime Minister well he was I think John redwood a man for whom I have some respect except that he's a prisoner of the Conservative Party I wish he'd escaped but he has he was he was railing about the surrenders to the European Union of New Labour well this is all very true but he knows perfectly well that these surrenders were all all followed enormous surrenders made by his own party and his own government to the European Union which which new labour simply continued and which of course the coalition is now continuing as well I think fundamentally what we have faced in our country for many many years is government by careerist government by cineq government like Public Relation man government buy fixer not governed by responsible person not government by patriot not indeed government by socialists not governed by anybody who cares about the people simply government by a professional political class which cares mainly for itself and which actually we really ought to be thinking hard about getting rid of altogether thank you so much I always called it plagiarism major and Blair it wasn't you see you would see the Blair thank you very much our next speaker tonight is Lisa Nandi who in addition to being the shadow Junior Education Minister is recognized as one of the rising stars of the new 2010 movement thank you well thanks very much of one I think that's exactly the way to get the audience because I wasn't a member of parliament between 1997 and 2010 and and listening to Peter actually just talking it reminded me of the days before 2010 when I had the luxury of standing on the sidelines and criticising without actually having to get involved take aside and try and fix things and I before I came into Parliament I was and have since been extremely critical at the last Labour government at times it was frustration about the lack of radicalism in British politics that led me into Parliament and it's frustration about that and what I see this current government doing to this country that keeps me there in fact him I was such a surprise choice for this debate that when I first got the email I thought it was a mistake and then had to check to make sure which side I was going to be on and then when I wandered into the chamber to find Andy this afternoon and told him I was speaking in the debate he asked me which side of the debate I was going to be on and but my criticisms of New Labour are based on where it failed to radically break with the status quo and that was a status quo that was established by the Thatcher and major governments that I grew up under that preceded it that's my first point of disagreement with this motion that where I criticize the New Labour government its criticism for not breaking with something that went in the past not for the things that they did do but for some of the things that they didn't do and I think that any assessment of a government has to be very personal it has to be based on what vision of society what vision of the country what vision of the economy that you personally have I want to society that's more equal that's more trusting more free less fractured and more collaborative and so I had deep concerns about the failure to tackle economic inequality particularly the situation at the very top of society where the very very rich got richer and that some of that wealth trickled down to the bottom but essentially the very very rich and the rest of us the gap continued to increase and I had concerns about the fact that I wanted to see a Labour Party that was leading a left-wing movement embedding a sense of solidarity in the country and collectivism after the individualism and greed of the Thatcher era that had preceded it these were problems that were inherited there were problems that were either not tackled enough in my view or that they were perpetuated but they certainly were not problems that were caused by the last government we heard a lot from the last bit from the opposite speakers about the problems caused by Labour's failure to regulate the banks now I have some sympathy with that position actually I think that most people in the labour party do I think that Labour should have been quicker to regulate the banks but it wasn't the Labour Party that split up high street banking and sit city banking it wasn't the Labour Party that put those things together and allowed city bankers to pay fast and loose with the save savings of ordinary people like the people that I represent in Wigan and II representing Lee and hazel represents in sulphate and in fact when the Labour Party was in office it was the Conservative Party that were attacking them from the right for having too much regulation and stifling innovation I don't think for a minute that anybody can stand up with any credibility and say that it was New Labour that caused that problem New Labour may not have done enough to tackle it and that's my view but New Labour by god did not cause that problem it was caused a long long time ago and I think that you should be critical of every government's record I think that looking back in hindsight is incredibly important picking that apart to understand importantly where you went wrong and understanding importantly where you went right seems to me critical to have an honest dissection of every government's record a non-tribal dissection in order to understand what we can learn from the past and what we can take forward to the future but I also think that you have to judge every government in terms of the context of the time and the challenges that it faced this government makes a huge amount to much in my view of the economic situation that it inherited and by god they've made it worse but what we forget is the challenge that new labor inherited in 1997 youth unemployment despair amongst young people intergenerational work nurses decades of underinvestment in infrastructure they've created problems for everybody but they've created real human misery for those at the bottom and that's why new labor came into government with a program that said we are going to tackle youth unemployment as one of our top priorities we're going to eradicate child poverty we're going to boost the incomes of the poorest both those who are in work and those who are out of work through a combination of tax credits benefits and the national minimum wage and why they said that there had to be such huge investment in health and education when I was growing up there were people who were dying waiting for operations people who were going blind waiting for cataract operations the people laying in hospitals on trolleys and on the floor waiting to be treated it had to be a priority and it was absolutely right to be a priority and when this government says they didn't fix the roof while the Sun was shining they absolutely did they built new schools they built new hospitals and by god we needed them Stafford Hospital and the dreadful conditions in which you're supposedly I think the great lesson from from new the new labor air about public services is that relationships matter and actually this is where I think there is a huge dividing line now between where the labor party is and where the coalition government is because I think that we understand that it's those human relationships between the people on the frontline and the people that they care for that matter and Peter have you just give me a moment and then I'll let you back in but I think that no no I'm sorry give me a moment and I'll let you back in because I think that where those public services failed is where the frontline had either forgotten or once supported to invest in that in those human relationships and one of our MPs and cleared got up and spoke very powerfully about what happened to her husband in hospital as a consequence of a lack as she said of human kindness I think it has to be the top priority of any government to support the people who work on the front line to support the people that we're here to protect I think that is an answer to the question I think that's exactly what we should be doing I think that new labor began by understanding it record investment in teachers record investment in social workers by the time we've left office that state had often become too faceless and too bureaucratic but we've learned the lesson from that era and these people haven't yes I what I'm saying to you Ben is that some parties listened and learn the lessons and have a sense of humility and some parties don't we've got the contrast at the moment with George Osborne the Chancellor who's presiding over economic misery and hardship hardship for many of people because his plan is not working and by contrast we've got a Labor Party that is saying we will take the time to go out around the country listen to people and change what we think that to me is something that is a huge dividing line between the two parties and there you are you've heard it from the sorry auntie but the horse's mouth and before 1997 one and a half million people being paid poverty wages some as little as under a pound an hour and tory MP standing up in the chamber defending that situation horrific examples of exploitation the national minimum wage was hugely opposed it's so hard to overemphasize just how much opposition there was to the introduction of the national minimum wage something that we've now taken for granted particular impacts on children of that the proportion of children living in poverty which rose considerably under the previous tory government the impact of that human misery is so hard to to overestimate it was a moral imperative to tackle those things it changed people's lives dramatically we should never be ashamed of it and i want to say something about where new labor went further firstly on equality economic equality ensuring that the poorest had the ability to participate in society in the social sphere for women by prioritizing issues like child care flexible work paternity leave BMI groups race relation amendment acts people with disabilities children gay and lesbian people at abolishing section 28 one of the most shameful periods in our history and establishing civil partnerships and in the political sphere you only have to look at our side in this debate tonight and their side to see the difference and on foreign policy somebody said don't mention it I can't because I have got no time because pizza keeps intervening on me but on foreign policy somebody said don't mention it but I will mention it because I marched against Iraq I disagreed with Iraq and I still disagree with Iraq but don't forget that it was Robin Cook and Tony Blair who redefined who redefined the concept of the responsibility to protect and human rights in relation to the international sphere which led to intervention in Sierra Leone and Kosovo which was extremely important and saved live don't forget how New Labour broke into generational cycles of disadvantage with SureStart opened up the arts museums and galleries to people who never had a right to participate before in the end I think the most interesting thing about new labor for me is something very different to hazel it's that it started from a recognition that you don't just stand where you are and preach you go to where the people are you understand where they are and then you bring them to you in short you lead and not follow to me new labor was a tease we kissed when it followed the opinion polls and at its strongest when it stuck to its original vision and thought sought to shape and not just seek the center ground and by God I wish we had a government that was doing that today thank you very much when I'm going to go to another round of floor speeches and if I could ask you to just keep them as brief as possible as we are running a bit behind tonight could I get a speech in proposition of the motion yes they were there second glow from the back yeah my name is Sarah I'm from Girton College I'd like to reiterate what Peter Hitchens was the first person to have a sense to mention and that's Iraq and the invasion of Iraq did ruin Britain it ruin the idea of Britain founded or unfounded and indeed it's probably an unfounded perception there was an idea of this being a country that at least did not engage in illegal and unwarranted invasion what New Labour gave us and what ruined Britain in ruining the brand of Britain was complicity in a five-fold increase in terrorism in Iraq was phosphorus burning the skin of children in Fallujah and a minimum of five hundred thousand Iraqi dead and Andy Burnham has the audacity to refer to that as liberation I beg to propose thank you can I get a speech in opposition of the motion it's good there Thanks thank you can I get a speech in abstention of the motion can McDonald down in college I like to encourage you to abstain to the motion for one simple reason and that's that it's based on a false pretense simply Britain isn't broken ladies and gentlemen since something is broken or ruined implies that for a start that it happens in recent times and that you can't possibly recover it well I'm sorry a large part of my family grew up in the West End of Glasgow and been mentioned things like unsocial underclass and income inequality they existed long before a new labor and long before factors government I'm sorry I think all you to do is look around part of this country whether it's the booming technology sector in the north of Scotland or even the achievements of the Olympic Games or simply gaze at London skylines knowing that this is not a country that is ruined thank you very much thank you very much in the interest of time we're going to return to our main speakers in tonight's debate our next speaker is Andrea Mitchell former Secretary of State for international development former Chief Whip and also former President of the Union Andrew president ladies and gentlemen ascending to that chair and gracing it in the way that you so clearly will throughout your term of office and I also congratulate the outgoing president on what was clearly and absolutely outstanding at term I'm very struck by both the love and commitment of your generation to the Union to making it even better every day this is a place where many of us were nurtured and nourished in our early politics and I think your generation is doing a fabulous job I also want to commend you for the strong and gallant fight against sexism in guard go University which you championed when two of the ladies of the Union when two of the ladies of the Union went there and were disgracefully treated I have rather flicked through your card and I see that you are a man of many parts because you've also this year had or invited mr. Stringfellow Katie Price Pamela Anderson in fact as far as I can see from your card the only person who has visited the union with a skirt below their knee Ward's the Archbishop of Canterbury when he came grace now I'd like to say that it's a pleasure to be debating with my three colleagues and also against hazel Blair who I used to shadow when she was in charge of police reform an area which I think probably needs a bit more attention at the moment and also it's a pleasure to be opposite Andy as well he won very considerable praise for his handling of the crisis at Hillsborough and of course he stood for the leadership of the Labour Party in 2010 he was Myles the best candidate so we on this side of the house are delighted that he wasn't elected now mr. president I turned to the motion before us which has been so colorfully proposed by Peter and forensic Lee opposed by John redwood and brilliantly a perk imposed also by a Ben and I want to start by immediately conceding that of course there were good things that came out of New Labour was the episode in Sierra Leone which I think is huge credit to Tony Blair though is the growth and support for minority rights which led to a Britain much more at ease with itself and I pay tribute to the Labour government for doing that and there is the work on International Development which will transform the world in which those of you who are coming now into the world of work inherit this is something which makes our country both more prosperous and more safe and stable and again it was Tony Blair and the New Labour Party which championed this but this motion tonight cunningly couldn't conceived and contrived by the outgoing president I urge you to accept what he said and examine the sentiment of it and before I lay the chargesheet before you I want to quote from a lecture which many of you may think is definitive which was a lecture which took place on the 12th of January 2013 the lecture of the now leader of the Labour Party to the Fabian Society and it specifically rubbishes new labor I mean if I may just mention five short things it says on page 4 new labour failed to sort out the economy page 6 we did not receive our economy or create shared prosperity page 7 from it moves on to the social agenda failures new labor failed to answer responsibility to ensure the responsibility went all through society mr. president page 8 we learn from Labour's great leader that new labor completely failed on immigration on page 9 the extraordinary admission that by the time they left office mr. president new labor was not listening to people and did not care what they thought now that is not a conservative speaking about the new labor era that just just remote there's not a conservative party speaking about the new labor era or the Liberal Democrats it's the leader of the Labour Party I give away 1/2 hours of Indian polls and lists of people the next minute is not listening for naught which is well the answer the answer to the cunning and feline ex-president is that on this side of the house on this side of the house you have a variety of different views expressed in different ways but they all of them amount to the same thing that the motion which is before this house should be supported at tonight now I want to put the case tonight that any good that New Labour did was obliterated by the ruinous errors of judgment the terrible mistakes in many different areas I want us to stress three of them first and foremost New Labour destroyed our national finances they ruined the finances the golden inheritance from Ken Clark falling debt low inflation rising employment growth the Treasury coffers were full and labor blew it and we've had reference tonight to the statement by the then Shadow Chancellor that Labour failed to mend the roof when the sun was shining and it is absolutely right they spent money as if it was going out of fashions it's very easy for politicians to spend other people's money and you should never praise them for it but but in a moment I'm going to give you the figures for what Labour did to the national debt hazal well we will come to we will come to we will we will we will come to the welfare budget in a moment but by 2010 after years of Plenty the deficit under labor was more than 155 billion pounds the public sector debt which labour inherited in 1997 was 352 billion pounds that's what had been racked up since 1680 when the national debt started to 1997 352 billion when they left off its 13 years later it was over 1000 billion it had moved up as a percentage of GDP from 40 percent most of us can agree that that is not an unrespectable level to nearly 70 percent and the debt interest today is 45 billion pounds a year the only public services which upon which we spend more are the welfare budget the NHS in education and our debt interest will soon overtake education is over 5 million pounds per hour and that mr. president is while interest rates are at a historic low of nought 0.5% imagine what would happen if interest rates were to rise and if only their economic incompetence stop there mr. president the black hole in our defense budget which this government inherited 38 billion pounds billion pounds of unfunded commitments I used to sit on the National Security Council mr. president and when we saw the papers which said that labor had a black hole on defense of 38 billion pounds I simply didn't believe it I thought it was a misprint and I said it back to the civil servants for clarification debt mr. president is simply tax deferred if our generation my generation don't repay it it will be your generation which has to do so now the second charge I want to make against new labor is over Iraq and I freely concede that Iraq is better off without Saddam I voted for the Iraq war i sat and listened to the Prime Minister Tony Blair I had not decided how to vote until I went into the chamber I listened to him and I marched straight in behind him into the lobby to vote for the war against the rock because I believe you should be able to trust a British Prime Minister and we now know this that Tony Blair said the policy of the government would follow the facts in fact the facts were fashioned twisted and spun to suit a policy agreed with President Bush behind closed doors at Camp David it was absolutely disgraceful that a British prime minister should behave in that way now the third and final point I wish to make on this charge sheet is has already been referred to as the assault on our Constitution I think that the abject failure of public reforms had to be a key aspect of New Labour the fact that in the Lord's the reform of the Lord's started a journey where New Labour had no idea where they were going there still is no plan for what should happen to the House of Lords public money was literally shoveled out of the door into the NHS and education without the reforms which Tony Blair had promised and said would take place and hence the coalition reforms to the NHS and education which many of the Blair rights support Blair's acknowledged failure of delivery he referred to it as the marks on his back in his first Parliament is part of my third charge and the failure to reform welfare spending doubled under New Labour from a hundred billion pounds to two hundred billion the system was so complicated when Labour left office that virtually no one could understand it people on benefits could earn more than hard-working families next door and helping people into work who could work was not a priority all of this policy has been shown to be spin and wind and when you vote tonight mr. president remember the tide of optimism and all those promises they made remember the spin and the nonsense and the humbug and the chicane er E and remember the debt they have wrapped up which hangs round all our necks now and which a great cost and great difficulty we are seeking to repay I begged to move thank you very much our final speaker for tonight is Andy Burnham who has served as health secretary as cultural secretary and as chief secretary to the Treasury Andy mr. president ladies and gentlemen it's very hard to follow seven excellent speakers but I will I will do my best it's great to be back in Cambridge I've got so many good memories of my time here so many lifelong friends except for the anonymous contemporary who when I was culture secretary responsible for the nation's drinking habits the anonymous content you gave a an account to the full account to The Times newspaper of my activities with the morni onion society which for those of you who don't know is a down market labor version of the Bullingdon Club so I already forgive them for that but I had a fantastic time here and what I want to do at the end of this debate is just talk personally about that time 25 years ago 1998 201 when I was here and then what happened afterwards I arrived in Cambridge from a Merseyside comprehensive I had 220 of the people in my year at school 15 of us went on to university there was no help for anybody to stay on there was no education Maintenance Allowance so many of my friends left school at 16 even though they had the talent gone to university and sadly added to the unemployment statistics in the northwest which at the time was 12% and after graduating in 1991 I went back to the northwestern and added to that statistic because there was literally nothing there our two great cities Manchester and Liverpool were in complete decline and after spending six months of writing letters in search of work but finding nothing I worked at B&Q for two pounds an hour because there was no national minimum wage I then had to work for free on a local newspaper in Manchester and in the end left for London to find to find work and at that time I was back at home my constituency where I grew up they were closing the coal mines at that time and to see what happened was to witness what Britain was like before new labour came in because that's what you've got to think about ladies and gentlemen the coal mines were closed over night now this was the the social support system of communities across the north it was literally taken away over overnight with nothing put in place the entire support structure of the community ripped away the damage was criminal families were left with nothing and we hear from from Andrew from John they talk these days of broken Britain well I say 'then they've got a nerve because lee in 1991 that was broken britain and that is what we had to put right and understandably for these reasons britain was a time Britain was a country where there was great social unrest it was a place where a significant minority of one of the nations of the UK had not voted for the government of the day and yet that same government used it as a laboratory for its most unpopular policy the poll tax so we saw disturbances on the streets of London Britain of the early 1990s it was a place where a teenager was killed in cold blood at a South London bus stop for no other reason than he was black and yet our country's leading police force turned the other cheek racism in our institutions was matched by open expression of racist sentiments at our football grounds but it wasn't an offence and nobody did anything about it yeah his wrists but if you any label some concern about it why don't we get Gordon Brown yellow for the short spin horses why is that we labor to teach one of the most cruel and inhumane treatment assignments while we are fulfilling a porn definite classification that made apartheid South Africa the type of model wrong and why is it that what was suddenly departments and Miliband the so discovered and gracious and special and by the way I'll tell you it's because nearly the smiling artist horror that immigrant populations are smarter which we both stronger this crowd and compete with yourselves and suddenly well I just ask you to think about Britain of the 1980s and Britain of now it is a fundamentally different different place and that's what I want you to think about when you think about this motion this evening it wasn't just discrimination based on race laws were passed that allowed discrimination against gay and lesbian people in our schools of all places in our schools but the one story that sums up this era and Andrew mentioned it was a terrible event that happened at the end of the 1980s when I was in my Easter break in my first year 1989 I went to watch my team Everton plate an FA Cup semi-final that same day my school friends were an other semifinal at Hillsborough watching Liverpool now this was four years after the Bradford fire and yet those Liverpool supporters were in a football ground that had no valid safety certificate this was Britain in that era a complete disregard for the safety of ordinary people and what happened that days 96 men women and children did not come home from that football match but why do I mention Hillsborough you know there have been other tragedies well what sets it apart it's not just they lost their lives it's then that the authorities of this country turned against those innocent men women and children and try to blame them for what had happened they denigrate the dead and the victims of that tragedy and rather than a national apology came a campaign of vilification in the newspapers that was that was also orchestrated by elements in the police awesome why was it allowed to happen how did they get away with it the answer is simple because they could there was no Freedom of Information Act Britain was a divided place where the authorities held all the power the 1980s was a decade when working class culture and communities football supporters trade unionists they were demonized by parts of the press and the Conservative Party that was the Britain that new labour inherited and it was to change that Britain that I went in to politics I wanted nothing of it it was a Britain where the single biggest influence on your treatment and your life chances was the postcode of the bed you were born in in a share your deep sense of shame about us but uncle's brothers you know it was this prime minister in this coalition government we've sorted it out join all those years when your locker empire you didn't do that well I've given I've given the current Prime Minister credit for that I also acknowledge that we didn't do enough but that was I'm describing what happened at the time I'm doing to answer the gentleman's question when I was chief secretary we grew spending public spending below growth in the overall economy Andrew said it was a tough a tough spending settlement only to change that June a few years a few years later this was the Britain we came in to change in 1998 20% of young people got five good GCSEs when we left government it was 40% well I'm sorry but your point is not valid because when Labour came to government in May 1987 public sector debt of a share of GDP was 42 point five percent and when we got to 2007 before the crash it was thirty six point two percent as hazel said before your point is not a valid point but think of the other things the national minimum wage the trebling of overseas aid the first-ever climate change that we did so many things to change this country for the better in conclusion I've never argued we got everything right like Lisa I thought at times we didn't do enough to make Britain more equal that we didn't speak enough about the 50% of young children who weren't going to university but the question before you tonight is not whether the Blair and brown governments got everything right it is whether they ruin Britain and I will put it to you the Britain of 2010 was a better place than the Britain of my youth fairer less divided more open-minded or in the words of David Cameron on the steps of 10 Downing Street in May 2010 quotes compared with a decade ago this country is more open at home and more compassionate abroad but the clinching piece of evidence is not in anything that I've said tonight it's not in anything that I've said the clinching piece of evidence is here in the Conservative Party manifesto of 2010 that kept those increases to the overseas budget that kept the national minimum wage that kept the benefits that cut pensioner poverty that kept the investment in the National Health Service that is the manifesto that Andrew and John stood on in 2010 because they accepted the new labor had changed Britain for the better that they couldn't undo the good things that they have done that is the evidence that you need to think about tonight that shows everything you've heard from those seats opposite is empty rhetoric new labor change Britain for the better and this is the proof of it thank you very much and thank you to all of our speakers for taking part tonight we'll be announcing the result in the BART where they'll also be live music and cheap drinks for the rest of the evening as you leave if you could exit through the door with which you wish to agree on this debate eyes nays and abstentions thank you

Channel: Cambridge Union

Views: 38,995

Rating: 4.6015325 out of 5

Keywords: The, Cambridge, Union, Society, labour, new labour, tony blair, gordon brown, andrew mitchell, andy burnham, hazel blears, peter hitchens, hitchens, john redwood, lisa nandy, ben harris-quiney, politics, left wing, right wing

Id: j3HXNgsl8Yo

Length: 99min 55sec (5995 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 25 2013