>>> RIGHT NOW TO THE LATEST FROM DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS MEETING IN WASHINGTON IN THE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RACE. LET'S BRING IN JONATHAN MARTIN, POLITICO POLITICS BUREAU CHIEF AND SENIOR POLITICAL COLUMNIST. JONATHAN, DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE? DO YOU LIKE THE TERM HOT MESS OR DO YOU LIKE DUMPSTER FIRE? CAN YOU COMBINE THOSE TWO? HAVE YOU GOT A QUICK TERM FOR HOW YOU DESCRIBE THE -- WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE FACING RIGHT NOW? >> I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE NASDAQ SHORT-HAND IS, BUT IT STARTS WITH S AND ENDS WITH SHOW. >> OR STORM. I KNOW WHAT THE S PART IS, BUT, YEAH, SHOW OR STORM. IT IS JUST -- I DON'T EVEN -- IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE EVEN WATCHING IT. AND WE WERE GOING TO SHOW PICTURES OF STENY HOYER, 85. SO, STENY AND NANCY, YOU KNOW, TALKING TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT SOMEONE BEING TOO OLD AND WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO OUST THIS GUY? >> BUT HERE'S THE THING ABOUT THAT. I THINK YOU PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT UNINTENTIONALLY. PART OF THE CHALLENGE DEMOCRATS HAVE HAD WITH BIDEN, ESPECIALLY IN THE HOUSE, IS THEY LOOK AT STENY HOYER AND NANCY PELOSI, WHO SAY WHAT YOU WILL ABOUT THEM, JOE, BUT THEY ACTUALLY AGED INTO THE 80s, THEIR 80s AND STILL GOVERN PRETTY DARN EFFECTIVELY, REGARDLESS OF YOUR VIEW OF THEIR POLITICS. AND I ACTUALLY THINK -- I TALKED TO A HOUSE DEMOCRAT WHO TOLD ME JUST THAT. WE THOUGHT BIDEN WAS GOING TO BE OKAY BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT PELOSI AND HOYER AND THEY WERE FINE TO THEIR EARLY 80s. AND I THINK THAT DID SHAPE THIS. >> THERE ARE DO-- WARREN BUFFET THERE ARE OTHERS, CLASSIC CHARLIE MONGER LINE WHEN HE WAS 99, HE SAID, I'M NOT NEARLY AS SHARP AS I WAS WHEN I WAS 96. IT IS SUCH A GREAT LINE. BUT -- >> EXACTLY. >> SO THEN WE'RE BACK TO BLAMING THE PEOPLE THAT KEPT HIM OUT OF THE PUBLIC EYE FOR THE PAST SIX -- I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS ANYWAY. YOU THINK SOME DEMOCRATS CAN SAY WE HAD NO IDEA IT HAD GOTTEN TO THIS POINT, THEY KEPT HIM -- >> YES. >> YOU THINK THEY CAN SAY THAT? >> I DO. AND HERE'S WHY. IF YOU'RE A CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRAT OR A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, YOUR EXPOSURE TO BIDEN FOR THE MOST PART IS CEREMONIAL EVENTS, BILL SIGNINGS, A RECEPTION, A GRIP AND GRIN PHOTO LINE, YOU'RE NOT SITTING DOWN WITH HIM AND ACTUALLY TALKING SHOP EXTENSIVELY FOR HALF AN HOUR OR AN HOUR. THERE ARE A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF ACTUAL ELECTED DEMOCRATS TO HAVE THAT KIND OF EXPOSURE ON A REGULAR BASIS. SO, YEAH, I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS WHO CAME DOWN TO THE WHITE HOUSE FOR THE HOLIDAY PARTY, OR WHEN THEIR BILL GOT SIGNED FOR A HANDSHAKE AND A PHOTOGRAPH THOUGHT HE HAD AGED, BUT WAS STILL OKAY. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A DENIALISM BECAUSE, FRANKLY, THEY HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE FOCUSED ON TRUMP AND STOPPING TRUMP AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO UPSET THE APPLE CART AND THEY THOUGHT THAT BIDEN WAS GOOD TO GO FOR ONE MORE TURN OUT THERE. BUT, LOOK, LET'S NOT PRETEND LIKE THESE DEMOCRATS WERE TOTALLY IN THE DARK. THEY KNOW HE'S GOING TO TURN 82 THIS FALL. AND THEY KNOW THAT HE'S GOING TO BE CLOSER TO 90 THAN 80 WHEN THE SECOND TERM WAS GOING TO BE DONE. THERE IS OTHER ISSUES AT PLAY HERE, NAMELY THEY DIDN'T WANT THE IDEA OF A MESSY DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY THIS YEAR. IT WAS EASIER TO SALUTE AND SAY I'M FOR THE INCUMBENT, I'M FOR BIDEN. >> YEAH. AND HE'S GOT THAT -- WORKING ON HIS SIDE. HE WAON IT FAIR AND SQUARE WITH THE PRIMARY VOTERS. AND THE OTHER THING, JONATHAN, IN THE BACKGROUND, MAYBE KAMALA COULD BE A GOOD VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS, MAYBE SHE COULD BE A GOOD CANDIDATE AND SATISFY, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE DEMOCRATIC BASE DEFINITELY IS LOOKING FOR. SHE'S BEEN A SPOKESPERSON ON ABORTION AND OTHER RIGHTS, MAYBE SHE COULD TAKE THE MANTLE. BUT UNUSUALLY THERE WAS SOME THOUGHT THAT, WOW, THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE BEST PICK A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, IT IS COMING BACK TO HAUNT THEM A LITTLE BIT. >> THIS IS STILL THE DEBATE AMONG DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS. THIS HOUR, AS WE SPEAK. WHICH IS OUR BETTER OPTION? WHICH IS OUR BETTER OPTION TO SALVAGE AS MANY DOWN BALLOT SEATS AS WE CAN? A WOUNDED JOE BIDEN OR A HEALTHIER KAMALA HARRIS POLITICALLY ON TOP OF THE TICKET? THAT IS LITERALLY THE DEBATE STILL GOING ON. I THINK PART OF THE REASON WHY THERE IS SOME HESITATION AMONG DEMOCRATS TO FORCEFULLY CALL FOR BIDEN'S OUSTER IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SURE THAT EVEN A POLITICALLY HEALTHY KAMALA HARRIS WOULD BE BETTER TO SAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE WISCONSIN AND PENNSYLVANIA AND MICHIGAN SENATE SEATS. THAT'S STILL VERY MUCH UP FOR DEBATE. >> MELISSA ACTUALLY -- THIS IS RARE. THIS IS RARE. YOU DON'T LIKE POLITICAL INTERVIEWS. >> I LIKE LISTENING TO THEM. >> DON'T ASK HIM ABOUT NVIDIA. >> I WON'T ASK HIM ABOUT NVIDIA. I MIGHT ASK HIM ABOUT APPLE. BUT IN TERMS OF THE S DASH DASH DASH DASH SHOW, ISN'T PART OF THIS, THOUGH, THE FEELING OF BETRAYAL, THAT BIDEN WAS SHIELDED, AND MAKES THIS WHOLE THING WORSE THAN IF THE CONCERNS HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP PRIOR BECAUSE YOU HAD SEEN HIM IN PUBLIC, YOU HAD SEEN HIM MAKING PUBLIC APPEARANCES, ET CETERA. THERE IS A FEELING THAT THE TEE B DEBATE WAS A BOMBSHELL. >> THERE IS A BOILING ANGER AT BIDEN AND FRANKLY HIS FAMILY AND THE INNER CIRCLE. I HEARD IT FROM DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS EVERY DAY SINCE THIS DEBATE THAT, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THEY PUT HIM OUT THERE, KNOWING, KNOWING WHAT HIS CONDITION WAS. YOU HEAR THAT ALL THE TIME. AND, GUYS, THE SORT OF CURRENT TRENDY COMPARISON IN WASHINGTON IS THAT THIS MOMENT IS KIND OF LIKE 2016 WITH THE REPUBLICANS WITH "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" WHERE A LOT OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO AND SOME OF THEM WANTED TO DUMP THE NOMINEE AND THERE WAS THIS PARALYTIC MOMENT IN THE PARTY. HERE'S THE DIFFERENCE, THOUGH, DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW, THEY LIKE JOE BIDEN. A LOT OF THEM HAVE A FONDNESS AND AFFECTION FOR BIDEN, THE GOP DIDN'T HAVE FOR TRUMP IN 2016. WHICH ALSO MAKES IT HARDER TO DUMP HIM BECAUSE THEY DO LIKE HIM, THEY HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR -- HE'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME, AND THAT MAKES IT TOUGHER. AND ALSO IT MAKES THE BETRAYAL THAT YOU MENTIONED SO MUCH MORE PERSONAL AND SO MUCH MORE BITING. >> WHAT SHOULD WE WATCH TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, JONATHAN? I'M WATCHING THE PREDICTED -- THE RCP BETTING SITES AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS. HE WANTS TO STAY, HE CAN STAY. THAT'S WHAT THE BETTING SITES ARE SAYING. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CHANGES. COULD CHANGE ON A DIME. >> I THINK THIS WEEK IS THE LAST EXIT, THAT, LOOK, NEXT WEEK IS THE GOP CONVENTION. TRUMP IS PICKING HIS VP. I THINK THIS IS THE PIVOTAL WEEK. AND I THINK TOMORROW IS A CRUCIAL DAY. WHY? BECAUSE BIDEN IS GIVING A KIND OF WRAP UP NATO PRESS CONFERENCE. I THINK EVERYBODY ON THE HILL IS GOING TO BE WATCHING THAT PRESS CONFERENCE, CAN HE CLEAR THE BAR? AND IF HE CAN, I THINK THEY'LL MOVE ON AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT. AND I THIS THE STORY WILL FADE. IF BIDEN DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD PRESS CONFERENCE, YOU'LL SEE LAWMAKERS CALL FOR HIM TO STEP DOWN, INCLUDING SENATORS ON THE FENCE. >> YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY. IF YOU WOUND SOMEONE AND DON'T KILL THEM, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD REALLY WANT TO BE A PERSON THAT WENT AGAINST THE PRESIDENT IF HE'S THE NOMINEE.
