Theater Talk: F. Murray Abraham

this we'd gone theater talk the trick is to trust when the time comes that the technique will be there if on one of those nights it just is not happening right your technique will support you and carry you through theater talk is made possible in part by the CUNY TV foundation from New York City this is theater talk I'm Michael Riedel of the New York Post and I'm the show's producer Susan Haskins I'm delighted tonight to be joined by one of the great great actors F Murray Abraham who is about to open off-broadway in terrific production of The Merchant of Venice he's been doing this for quite a while now and there's been a lot of talking about Al Pacino's on Broadway but I urge you I urge you to see this one a colleague of ours Jim Shapiro from Columbia University Susan who was on the show to talk about the Merchant of Venice a couple of months ago said he thought of all the Shylock's he's seen i'm fondest of maurice Murray Abraham Murray Abraham plays a that scared the living daylights out of me and Jim has seen a lot of merchants of Venice and you know you know Juno and you know he has studied this play for years and years he said but you're you're the when we did this of originally here in New York it was a hit and it was successful and we sold out right away but when we took it to England stratford-on-avon we were a big success there - I'm not really just patting myself on the back it was a great thing for the American actor and the American theater that the Brits really not only accepted us and our production but they embraced it that's very interesting though because there is this feeling that sometimes you get from the British actors that Americans just really can't pull off Shakespeare as well as they can when you get a lot of that from the critics I think the public accepts is there anything is there anything to that at all I mean sectors have more of a feel for it than some American actors they they have their feel for it and we have ours and I think that we have a lot to learn from each other which would compared favorably with Olivier is by one of the leading Shakespeare critics in the world oh well that's pretty good I'm shameless and sorry but I am I'm very proud of that I liked Olivia he was one of my idols absolutely what is the what is your attack on the role of I mean when Jim Shapiro was here he said there's no two ways about it it's an anti-semitic character do you play up that aspect of it I think what makes it the universal pieces that it's really about an outsider it's about much more than anti-semitism which is it is an anti-semite Semitic play but I can't imagine making this a a universal character if I think only in those terms so I sometimes would think of him as a Palestinian in a in an Israeli court or an American Indian in an American Court in the old days or on and on it's a universal expression of a real a need in a search for justice everyone understands that and that's really what I try to put into my character into this wonderful amazing man and what about the bill and the villainous aspect of them him though because Shakespeare intended him as a villain and you must have fun with that with making him the bad guy in some ways well I suppose this is the big trick that Shakespeare pulled off because until Jews had never been depicted as anything but villains and and devils not even human this is the first time he was endowed with human qualities and I think the only way to temper that for that society then was to allow it to be anti-semitic but also human was a huge breakthrough because you certainly understand why he has a grudge and you certainly under you bring out you know all the the very real grievances that this man has and how he's been treated very happily it's hard to imagine what it would be like to be vilified in the streets legally spat upon kicked beaten and put up with it and not only that but succeed and that's what he's done but I think this a lesson to be learned in that the thing about my is he is not out for revenge immediately he really just wants to establish a place of dignity and that's what the pound of flesh begins to be but when everything is taken from him when his daughter is finally taken from him then I think he turns to revenge that makes him I think much more palatable and acceptable and understandable to a current audience everyone has experienced feelings of revenge I think I think I'm safe in saying that indulging those feelings is quite another thing but that's an issue in the play though too that when this man is is the outsider and he has the moment of revenge he has to be tempered and he can't temper it himself he's gonna go and he's gonna kill for it I guess it's a passion that any of us who have been carried away with any kind of a passion whether it's love or eight we find ourselves in the middle of this thing that we know is terribly damaging and we just can't stop ourselves it's just this pull to do this evil bad thing and it's like sucking a sword tube you can't stop and it finally destroys him I think and the worst thing about it is that he knows it's going to help out to hurt his Society of Jews that lives in Venice at the time but he still can't stop himself and it's he's a very he's a deeply religious man but he still insists on doing this thing which his religion is absolutely against right it's taking cutting into another person's justified he just can't stop he knows what he commits himself to it that he's damning himself why do you think that Shakespeare if you know with this being the tragedy of puts that comic turn at that in the fifth act and and ends the play the way it he does you're asking the question that critics for 400 years have been trying to work out I mean it's interesting how it's been treated there was a long period of time where that act was cut oh really yes Shylock's exit was the end of the play so however you work it out it's really up to you and I think that's one of the values to to seeing both of these productions cease alves was a friend of mine and mine because they're quite different productions there and quite different performances have you seen else oh yes and does it influence you at all anyhow you know that's his that's his yeah mine is mine and we have a lot of respect for each other we're both very serious you could talk about playing just roll with him no but I dropped a note off to him he's flick-right now that i would like to have conversation with him about it publicly so that but because I could use some publicity I mean he's using up all the audience I want people to know that this is a great chance to see two Academy award-winning actors yeah serious devoted actors doing one of the great exactly it's it's it's never historically it's never happened well I will just say if you'd like to come on theater talk with your friend Elmer Abraham and devote a whole show to playing you're welcome and I hope that little paper the New York Times gets onto this idea to yeah that's a yeah speaking of other Charlotte's you have seen other great Shylock's before in your mind the best well I have to say mine yes aside from yours was there when you saw an actor young man that so many well I might ask you what was Olivia terrific it was terrific I happen to be a big fan some people didn't like it yeah thought it was wonderful yeah oh there was that wonderful other British actor wonderful wonderful actor what's his name we talked about Henry good any he did a thing I'm not gonna do it I'll do my own thing yeah he did a thing I've never seen before in the trial scene at the end of the the quality of Mercy speech where when she got finished making this beautiful appeal he didn't do a thing for about ten or fifteen seconds just sat there and you wondered is he gonna let it go is he is he gonna go for the pound of flesh it was a it was a very courageous thing to do now when you I do something quite different right yeah I was gonna say when you're putting together your Shaw having seen all these others do you say I can't do this I'm not going to take from that one I'm gonna do something deliberately different because I've seen other actors do it and I don't want to repeat it listen I am a highly technical actor I really do work hard on the work and I do a lot of research and so on but I'm an instinctive actor I'm absolutely instinctual and I really allow it to carry me where it wherever it is going to go even during the performance I just let it take me it's it's a pretty exciting ride the always work but but when it does it's thrilling it's thrilling to see an actor who's willing to take those chances well then spires other people to do the same that's the only reason to do it though right I mean what's the point of getting up there to act if you're not going to roll the dice to see how far you can go with it what you're saying is absolutely true but to commit yourself to it it's a little dangerous and fun that's why I do it when you say sometimes it doesn't work out can you give this example of a performance that you did where it didn't work out and the choice you made and when you realized I didn't going wrong well sometimes you get to a point where you think you're inspired you go with in this direction with it and you get in the middle of it you think this is crap you try to pull yourself back and you get him back on track it's much by the way it's much like in baseball if a pitcher has a no-hitter going into the seventh inning you're not supposed to talk to him that the other players pretend like it's not happening they just ignore it completely it's it's in a great performance if you're in the middle of it if you ever stop and say this is a great performance it's suddenly gone baby yeah and it's and if you commit yourself to that kind of if you trust that instinct if you trust that inspiration that's where the great performances come from I'd love to talk about acting and since we have you here or one of the great actors I want to touch on what you said though you are instinctual but also technical yeah is it not true that to really pull off a performance to really be a good actor you always have to have that technical ability running sort of alongside your instinctive ability how does one move how does one sort that out the the running with it and yet knowing if I lift my hand this way I'm gonna get this kind of laugh if I look that way I'm gonna get that kind of laugh how do you keep the two things in your head in your lips that's the trick I think that is the trick the the Japanese technicians when they have assistants when they have a they're not allowed to touch the work for at least two or three years they are just assisting watching learning before they even begin to touch whether it's clay whether it's pottery whether it's the theater so that when they do finally get an opportunity to perform whether it's making something or our acting all the technique is there to support whatever they do and and if you never stop working on that I'm talking about vocally as well as spiritually by the way and that's the trick is to trust when the time comes that the technique will be there if on one of those nights it just is not happening right your technique will support you and carry you through and you get to a certain point where the performance is always good when I say it's crap I don't mean it's really crap used to be but now I can get away with stuff you know because I've been doing it for 50 years I mean right I should be able to do it you know but you know what it's not working but you can fool the audience and sometimes you're wrong sometimes you think this is awful and then people come back to say that but sometimes you think it's terrific they say well that terrible experience but this little acting I've done that you're observing yourself in every moment you're going ah that's terrible that's right yeah that is bad acting but teaching the technique though it seems in the way acting that goes nowadays that people just want to plunge in and become a star because a lot of young people get a TV show they get a movie and you know they're an instant success and then they come to Broadway and they try it and you see the technique was never there no no you can spot it immediately you can you can spot it just the sound of a voice there's another stage voice I think you can spot it as soon as someone steps on the stage really it's an aura people go oh nothing this we're in for a good ride here this is a good thing you can tell you can smell it you can feel it but I also think it's one of the reasons that they were so many suicides among that still are among artists performers who have this enormous amount of Fame and get built up yeah built up they really really think they know what they're doing and in fact when it starts to taper off they got no place to go right they have nothing to rely on they they're completely lost isn't that a corruption I mean oh you walked away from Hollywood now didn't walk away but you didn't move to Hollywood and become that and I want was that did that have something to do with this very corrupt system where they kind of destroy psyches and lives with the fame system I don't think it was that altruistic thank you from putting me in that category but it's just that the stuff that was offered was such crap yeah right it was a lot of money but it's the money yeah I just said I know I'm doing all right you know I want to stay here do my work well let's talk about a little bit of big because it was Amadeus she won the Oscar and then you started to get the Salieri wrote roles now what happens they keep giving me the same sort of thing oh we were gonna be that scary menacing villain absolutely true for the first 15 years of my career I was only doing comedy Oh all comedy and as soon as said area happened it was been all like sinister villains and stuff and I'm funny you're such a funny guy you got to see the Ritz I mean you kind of see it it's a wonderful you were in the original Broadway production and the movie yeah but it's funny you say that cuz you are you're really quite funny and charming but my image of you is salia and I thought interviewing F Murray Abram and I was a little intimidated funny why did you decide to become an actor how old were you what was the impressionable moment in your life where you thought I got to be looked at you know this thing about how you become who you are is like obvious like a mystery sometimes in my case it really is because I was a hoodlum I was a gang member when I was in I'm from El Paso Texas and it was pachucos in those days and my friends were all Mexican Chicanos and I speak Spanish and I spoke with a Mexican accent and in these gangs which were the precursors of the Bloods and the Crips we were not as violent as they were I mean I was never in a fight where anyone was killed but that's 16 a teacher said you try this don't ask me why I want what she saw and it changed my life why did you try it sounded like a pretty fun idea a lot of girls in the theater but no know that I'm making a joke it was just seemed to communicate to me and I I went to a play I saw a guy I knew was on the stage and I was transformed remember what the play was no I don't but I remember the first play I did that was successful from me which was the old lady shows her medals which we took two into a state contest in Texas and I want and I've got a scholarship and I went to school otherwise I never would have the old lady shows her medals and every great one I play by JM Barrie and that was it for you a JM Barrie play transformed your life absolutely that woman did teacher yes what was her name Lucia P Hutchins god rest her soul and she saw forever indebted to her and she saw something in this she saw something that I didn't know was there that's a teacher but isn't it interesting that a teacher transformed your life and you have remained a teacher yourself even though you have a very successful acting career unlike so many you've gone back to Brooklyn College and become a master teacher of acting well I think it's a tribute to her yeah thank you for pointing that out and it's very important to me where did you get your what when did you realize as a young teenager acting winning awards why do you realize oh I'm but Mike I gotta get some technique here too it's not all just winning awards and having a good time it's work I just knew that there were things I had to change being in a gang and then separating from the gang it's very hard to do it means you really have to change your life so I I began to listen to what I sounded like and I knew I couldn't be a an actor with a Mexican accent and so I started to listen to recordings which I still have old recordings of Barrymore I have vinyl I am Barry Moore and Olivier feel good really I still have them so you trained yourself how to speak without an accent by listening to greatest actors in the English language an American animal dude it's not a big deal just do it I just have this image of you as a little gang member putting on your Florence Sophia scars to prove it did the gang try to pull you back in yeah what do they make of your doing acting Oh derisive Teresa it was wasn't it was lonely time but I knew it was right it was like a calling I really believed it was the hand of God I do and miss Hutchins yes through Lucia you started out though doing comedy because we were saying yeah and that come about I mean what was the first comic role that you got and did you think well this is what I'll be doing for my life I'm a funny guy yeah well I guess always like to tell jokes I suppose that's part of it mm-hmm but I think if I had a choice I'd only do comedy really yeah for one thing you can't fool yourself when you're on stage um doing comedy you can't say oh this was good because if they're not laughing it's not any good I don't care what anyone says how good it's got they got to it you know you can trick yourself when you're doing tragedy because you don't know you take it for granted and besides with tragedy even if it's not real good the message of the play gets through it's gonna affect someone right but with comedy well I'll tell you I did Macbeth hey while I was doing it my wife at one point said I can't live with you like this she's a very good cook my wife Kate 50 years we've been together she cooked a lot of stuff she said it's in the freezer I'm going to the house in the country goodbye she said I was I was mourning in my sleep I was thrashing around I was snapping at her one she said goodbye I'll be back in a couple of months you know weeks really so comedy doesn't affect me that way well how does your affect you how's the how's your wife putting up with your I love except for that thing that he commits himself to the cutting of the flesh I'm devoted to his his passion and to his humanity and his need for justice I hate that these guys who almost brought our country to its knees have gotten away with murder but no one has been brought to task for this banking system that they've destroyed no one that's my sense of justice that's good and that's when I feel with with with he says I I stand for judgment and so will I have it well will the American people ever have it nope when you were doing the comedy and then you got Salieri and suddenly become excuse me yeah I was doing the a Matthias and Scarface at the same time Wow I was flying from Hollywood to Prague Wow how'd you keep your head together with that because they're so different yeah if they were subtly like close it would have been difficult but this was like one was a vacation from the other Wow but but my point is saying it is that they were both released pretty close yeah right but no one remembers that that it was that close they remember oh yeah you did Scarface but they always remember Salieri how did you get that part I'm just dumb just luck good fortune uh I think every actor in the world wanted that yeah absolutely I mean was the hottest play in the world of that big I mean the the greatest stars you could bankroll of a film on their names and reputation son fortunately for me Miller's had something else in mind thank God and it was you it turns out it was me and Tom halls did he have you in mind for that originally or did he have you in mind when you went to audition for him we'll never know I saw him a couple of times and then suddenly they say he wants you to read so I went to see him I don't know if he knew exactly what he had in mind until he just came across the actor he seemed thinks seem to have fit that's a lot of courage because that was bankrolled by one producer all his own money really yeah but he had had that same producer success with Cuckoo's Nest since that's right and that took a lot of balls did you know a lot did you read a lot for Emile Hirsch though did you it did he put through a lot of auditions no just once once yeah take it once so you did it once for him and did he give you a job on the spot or ever sort of them don't you remember where you were when you heard you got in the lead and it was gigantic I was painting my kitchen really in Brooklyn yeah and they call you yeah and I still didn't believe it okay it was written by a British a Brit you know was a friend now yeah wonderful and he is isn't he yeah great conversationalist I loved here yeah buddy we should say we written by a Brit for Britain you thought there's no way I'm gonna do those work that's going to change my life let's look they were going through the motions for some reason had to see some American actors you know that was nobody you know and they called and I said yeah well okay you want me he's it I want you mister okay what's next he says well now we have to talk to them did the writer and I said well it's fine thank you I've gotta finish painting my kitchen I mean I've been asked to consider Scarface and you know Al was partly responsible for me getting Scarface by the way Al Pacino Brian I mean right yeah they had they had to agree and I did the audition they said look we want you for this but we kept saying can you hold off because I'm a dais may be in them so look we're gonna give you till such-and-such a date but then we have to have an answer and I needed the money and I got a family and little kids you know and they wouldn't come up with it with Amadeus so I said okay I'll do Scarface I mean of course I would be glad to it's a good movie and then I wouldn't tell them we're doing working on Scarface and biga they called me when I was on the set you got the part it's just like Hollywood you got the part bells are ringing I said and that's when they got scared because that was really a crusader for American actors I still am right American actors it was anyone in the world anyone I guess you can sense my pride yeah but I said okay now you got to prove it now you've got a deliverer baby you got a struggle British actors that you're as good as they are in this point even now I get goose pimples when I think I swear I get goose pimples cuz I was really scared I said you better be good and I went home and I started to work while I was working on Scarface because it was Paul Scofield who played Salieri original show Paul Scofield did you see that performance no they never came to America with it you don't want to come you know it's funny you say that because I remember talking to Peter Shaffer about that when he died I said Peter how come he didn't come to with Broadway and he said well I went to him and I said please Paul we would love you to come to Broadway and he said Peter it's the time of year when my wife and I go to our house in Scotland and we paint our shutters you see and that was it you see that was that so he was going off to pay when he turned out in the role and you were painting your kitchen when you were offered alright listen it's been great great talking to you f murray abraham one of our terrific terrific actors and you can see f murray abraham in the Merchant of Venice she's playing it is Gary Shila Gary at Pace University's Chimel Center for the Arts and you're gonna tour with a smart romance yes yes and I really urge anyone who thinks of them selves as a serious theater goer to come and compare this production with Al Pacino's production it's a it's a rare opportunity to see two Academy Award winners do the same great role and you're gonna be in Chicago with it you said Chicago and Boston and in Santa Monica theater that Dustin Hoffman built who did a - if I'm not mistaken I was 20 years ago interesting f murray Abraham thank you very much for being our guest I don't you know talk great pleasure thank you thank you our thanks to the Friends of theater talk for their significant contribution Peter talk is made possible in part by the Frederick boat foundation the Eleanor Naylor Dana Charitable Trusts the Allan escort foundation the quarry and Bob dinelli charitable fund Kerry J fries that Dorothy Strauss and Foundation the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs and the New York State Council on the arts a state agency we welcome your questions or comments for theater talk thank you and good night

Channel: CUNY TV

Views: 18,125

Rating: 4.8387098 out of 5

Keywords: CUNY TV, Theater Talk, Susan Haskins, Michael Riedel, F. Murray Abraham

Id: KTg2D8-rSV0

Length: 26min 42sec (1602 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 17 2011