Conversations with F. MURRAY ABRAHAM

good evening how are you tonight how excited are you at Murray Abraham is here so thank you and good evening my guest f Murray Abraham is one of the most respected and prolific actors of his generation working on stage screen and television he has appeared in over 80 films yes right including Amadeus Amadeus fans here where he won the Academy Award for Best Actor as well as the Golden Globe and the LA Film Critics Awards for his electrifying performance of Antonio Salieri other films include the name of the rose and finding Forrester both the Sean Connery Scarface co-starring with Al Pacino the bonfire the vanities with Tom Hanks the RIT's Star Trek insurrection the grand Budapest hotel with ray Fiennes and inside yes here for that let's hear it for that and inside Llewyn Davis opposite Oscar Isaac a veteran of the stage he has appeared in over 90 plays among them his Broadway debut in the man in the glass booth for director Harold Pinter Uncle Vanya for to receive the Obie Award the musical the triumph of love and the title roles in Cyrano de Bergerac King Lear Macbeth Richard the third the Jew of Malta and the Merchant of Venice to name just a few he took on the coveted role of Roy Cohn in Tony Kushner's Angels in America Waiting for Godot for director Mike Nichols and most recently he starred on London's West End and Daniel kellman's comedy the mentor he has appeared in more Terrance McNally plays than any other actor including bad habits The Ritz and it's only a play opposite Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick he is known to millions of fans around the world for playing black ops specialist dar Adal on the hit show time TV series homeland homeland fans here for which she is now nominated for his second Emmy Award other television work includes Marco Polo The Good Wife the good fight louis c.k Curb Your Enthusiasm Shakespeare and covered and chai America for the BBC upcoming films include Robin Hood and How to Train Your Dragon 3 honors include oh yeah we're gonna get into that honors include the Moscow Art Theater Stanislavski award the Sir John Gielgud award for excellence in Shakespeare the Obie Award for lifetime achievement and a member of a theatre Hall of Fame with great pleasure please welcome my guest f murray Abraham thank you thank you you're very welcome thanks for coming well first off congratulations on your second Emmy nomination for homeland welcome this thing about all of these these credits in the bio and it's a little embarrassing because because I was I teach from time to time maybe once every year and a half I I get a real charge out of it I gather a class together at the Atlantic Theatre Company I did two weeks ago and what I and I always bring the Oscar with me and I show it to them and they all go you know and I explained to them that winning the Oscar is terrific I mean it's of course and it's great for the career but it doesn't make you a better actor that's what's that's that's what's difficult to explain to anyone that the work is what we're here about the work is what it's about it's the work that never changes and it's hard to convince people of that because they're trying to make a living and you begin to think you know it's getting the job but it's also doing the job and that's that's really what I'm still I'm still not dedicated to but that's still what drives me my son just left New Orleans - he builds sets for films and for for television studios and he went to LA to get away from the anyway the point is New Orleans is a real party town it's a great town but my anyway went out there and it was like starting a new career and he got a job immediately and for the first week he was doing work that he really it was a step up for him from what he had been doing so it was brand new and he said that he was really he was really worried about being able to do the task do the job and I said I hate to tell you this but I'm successful and I really had a lot of experience and I feel the same way every time I get a job I hate to say that you know like that but that complacency does not fit into my way of thinking I I wish it did it would be nice to take a breath and say well it's a it's a job and I'm gonna do well but it's it's always another adventure I guess again of course you all know what I'm talking about let's talk about this role then dar Adal how did he come about for you what's one of those things I mean there's someone called and they said we're looking for a new character and it was opposite Mandi whom I've known for many years and the scene went so well that they decided to keep the character because didn't this started as a two Episode one one episode oh oh no that's right it was - yeah the first one happened the first one it was me and a bus that's all and they paid me so it was two episodes yeah so what do you love the most about playing him I really like him I think he's a he's a complex interesting man and he's not one of those sometimes you take a job and you think well I hope this one doesn't become permanent because this is this guy's boring but this guy's not boring yeah has this role made I always thought that after after we started working on it for a while I didn't think he's he's actually what's the word these days for fluid sexuality yeah I felt that he I felt that he could it could go in any direction yeah it was it was up for anything and I asked I told this to the to the costume people terrific people by the way and I said I think he wears women's underwear has this don't tell anyone I said that no one knows this has this role made you a better actor I can't get much better the roles that make you better are the great roles that's why I still that's why do the classics yeah it's a test it's it's me against not against but measured up against every actor who's ever done the role ever that's how I feel about the classics well let's talk about specific things what makes homeland so rewarding for you know the writing is very good but also the pay is terrific but but but they've got a crew of directors on it who have a piece of the action there are also producers and they have a great real investment in the an artistic investment as well as a financial investment in it and they're really very good it's a I wouldn't say this if it weren't true I would pass over this question but it's a crew of a tight crew of people and I like working for them I wish the organization was there a little more open handed though you know they're making so much money but they they're still very tight fisted but that's just that's endemic in our business you know it wasn't always that way there was a time early on pay heed to go back into ancient history but there was a time when you're not hip to the fact that years ago maybe 90% at least of the commercials in this country were cast here and and and it was generally New York act it's you know it's spread all over the place and consequently you could you could you could go on eight nine auditions a day running from one place to another and when when you do these commercials a day's work if you if you wanted the costume they give it to you there was no question it was fine it was and then there and the point is it's become much more Pinner as if they're just stingy yeah and it's it's too bad it shouldn't be that way but it is but aside from that it's a it's a wonderful organization I've become very good friends with some of the people who shoot it there's a director of photography and his right-hand man and I and it shoots all over the world I was in Berlin for six months shooting this thing what a great city I was in South Africa for five months another fabulous city and while we were in a South Africa the boys the DP David Klein and Dom invited me to go shark diving off the coast of South Africa and we went into this cage underwater and the Sharks were coming anyway I liked the show a lot for that it's got a lot going for it aside from the decent script the remarkable preesh and stuff they do but they say comes true but aside from all that it's a chance to see the world first-class you can't beat it and a truly incredible group of actors one I like working with those casts listen if you ever have a chance you got to work with that woman she's she's the real McCoy she she shows up for every read-through of the script not everyone does that everyone she if she's on the set she'll leave and come and read through together and she does it the rehearsal with the same intensity that you see in perform I'm a big admirer of hers yeah that's Claire Danes we're talking Claire yeah yeah because we all fell in love with Claire Danes again here she came to roundabout to do Pygmalion which I think was one of the most successful plays they had ever done yeah she was really wonderful in that so when you shoot homeland is it primarily the same crew that travels around the world with you the same directors orders change same directors but but basically it's so that the DP and his right-hand man otherwise they pick up the crews wherever they go got it okay what do you think or why do you think this show has struck such a chord with millions of fans around the world first of all it's a it's well-written but also it's the truth it seems to be predicting what happens it's kind of scary I think that's what resonates but it's good acting it's there's good production values but it's it's kind of it's remarkable the the reach the breadth of television because wherever I go people call out my name it's funny with different accents hey Dad um you know that can it's it's remarkable how much time in advance do you get scripts like when you're shooting a season sometime sometimes three three days I try to get it sooner but sometimes sometimes they rewrite the day you get it yeah I mean the day you shoot they say oh here's this that scenes out like you shut your pants cuz I was gonna ask you like working in the world of TV everybody says that TV scripts change all the time oh yeah but these are pretty much solid but but they do change them I mean they do them like at the last second but that's part of the excitement of it in those terms made me a better actor but at least it's sharpened my technique because things change sometimes on a dime they're like let's not shoot this right yeah I want to go back to the beginning what was your childhood like and what were your teenage years like and where did your love for theater begin I'd say I had nothing to do with the theater or what literature might it's all blue-collar uh my father was a mechanic and my people are coal miners and steel workers I'm a union man from the from the word go but but uh it had nothing to do with literature there was no there was not reading in my family really it was just one of those I don't know where this came from I mean we had a it's one of those lucky things I was kind of a hoodlum oh I was a hoodlum a lot of people were but I was huh from El Paso and from El Paso Texas and I grew up speaking Spanish and all my friends were we're Chicanos de la raza the guys and Juarez was much easier Juarez was like my second home I had so many friends who live there who went to school where I went to an in violence and some of those kids didn't have any shoes and I grew up about two blocks from the river nothing dangerous about it but the idea of the theater was ridiculous it's nothing didn't we exist for me you know although I was a I'd want to get this whole thing I had a love for the for the glamour of the church I went to I I'm I'm Syrian Orthodox and that service is pretty remarkable and if you have never been to a Greek or Orthodox Easter service she got to do yourself a favor because it's talk about theater you know but that's the closest I ever came to the theater I was an altar boy and hoodlums at the same time but anyhow the point is when we are getting close to the end of high school I was being passed along because I was such a pain in the ass and it was a little dangerous we were part of a gang you had to be and one point they just wanted to get me out of high school it was it was I was not anyway the point is uh I was I just took a thing called speech and drama yeah just to get out of school just get through it was sounded easy and that teacher Lucia P Hutchins said try this I changed my life I'm really I I started to be I changed I dropped out of the gang I started to read she started to direct me in that direction and I did Mitch a scene from that that wonderful play and I did some Shakespeare for the first time and I was in a contest for the state of Texas it was the old lady shows her medals jamberry and I won a an award and I got a scholarship to go to school a hundred dollars yeah that was the scholarship and it was enough I went to school at what is now UTEP it was then Texas Western college of Mines and that's where I went to school and then I went there for a while and decided I wanted to seek my fortune that's the story so then you went to Los Angeles yeah what got you to LA first and not New York why Los Angeles well first of all it was that whole that whole thing about LA I mean it's like I was partly I felt I have a Mexican soul anyway and it was LA and it was the beach and it was a whole world of ease and I grew up in cars practically so they were car the car culture was part of it I thumbed my way out I hitchhiked you could do that in those days you know on the road was a very important part of my background my culture and I found out there and I got a job parking cars in LA on Sunset Boulevard driving those big cars it was like it was fabulous and I just horsed around for a while did you work no I didn't I didn't like I kind of I kind of hung around and messed around and I did readings and I did this but for some reason I was I was just hesitant about committing myself even though I knew I was an actor and I kept saying it I didn't really do anything about it I guess I was terrified yeah I hate to admit that but it's the truth and I I said to myself wonder if you're gonna do what do it or just stop talking about it you know and so I auditioned for Ray Bradbury yeah and it was the wonderful ice cream suit and I got the job I odd I it was very small part mister Shumway and there were six guys in this story who all very poor part of LA East LA and they each put up ten bucks to buy this wonderful white suit and each one of them gets to wear it for an hour and that's what the story of the play is and I understood it at all six guys and it went on for five of them so that was your debut out there that was my debut and as soon as I was I'll tell you something interesting I knew I was now that I knew I could do it the show ran for about six or seven months at least it was pretty remarkable for LA I think the Coronet Theatre and I started to talk to these actors and I had been working backstage for a while so I knew actors but this time they were colleagues and I I was playing someone who I thought was very prim and I had a mustache at the time and I decided to make him like Franklin Pangborn the guy is a very like a feat guy with it then I put some moustache wax to make a little thin mustache I mean I did the whole thing and my colleagues said Marie if you if you want to make a success in this business you can't do that you can't not look like what they see when they come to the show they see you and if they call you in to talk about a role that's what they want to see and I decided that I didn't want to be that kind of an actor so as soon as the and by this time I had married I'd met my wife out there almost 58 years together I'm gonna make and we decided to say goodbye and I wanted to go to New York and learn to be a mr. the so called get a serious actor and I came to New York we went to New York I studied with Udo Hagen and God was like studying with her oh well she was it was good for me yeah that was an interesting thing that's what I learned something about teaching from you mind if we continue like this talk I love this I love this this is what I had heard but miss Hagen I never called her una in my life miss Hagen believed in props so I she arranged with him I got an audition I got an appointment and I had this head of that I swear to God it was a bust of of David was just his head shot of David big old thing you know and a bag full of stuff right and I once I really wanted to you know that was gonna use it to I was like I was gonna talk to him or something Telefonica the point is I was already and the guy who picked me up happened to be an actor I don't know if you know who William M Macy is well I didn't know him at the time but we became friends afterwards he picks me up in the cab and I'm gonna and I say Bank Street he says who - Hagen right and you imagine they knew and then we read for him anyway the point is that uh I was I did this part of this scene it she said that's enough I'll take you that kind of thing and I became a kind of a favorite of hers and uh but he called them them I turn off and on the lights when we do the scenes but the point is monitor thank you but I was really good at the beginning my instincts were terrific I I trusted them and the longer I studied with her the worse I became do you know that feeling I began I began to and I didn't know this was happening she did because after a year she attend she said I you have to leave she said because she knew what was happening what while I was I was doing in which I admonished mice the students when I teach is be careful of the really great teachers because they're charismatic and if you don't watch it you'll fall under their spell and you'll begin to try only to please them or second-guess what they want or try to instead of doing using what they have to say what they're telling you for your own talent and your own instincts it's it's a it's a tough trick but she saw it and I it was awful because at one point I thought by the end of he I think it was just a year in a couple of months I really didn't know what I was doing you know I walked into the class thinking I knew everything I mean feel it you know and then I was just scared of anyway I left and I began to find my feet again interesting that's my story of Buddha Hagen I love that so one of the first jobs you had in New York and some time went by some some time went by and and uh every time I had a very difficult role with Cyrano I wrote to her and says I'm reading your book again and she wrote back and said thank you for this and good luck you'll be a great seer and all that kind of thing like letters once in a while and when I want the academy award I went to class with it and and and then I put it she put it on and she said these things don't mean until you win one but I'm sitting there talking to her and all of the class she had a the the table was on one side over here and the class was over here and we were talking and everyone in the class was facing toward us but their eyes were all like this looking at the Oscar it's an extraordinary icon that thing you know it's not that old what is it is it 80 years old yet close it's not a hundred years old 2077 it's not even a hundred years old and it's one of the most famous sculptures in the world the movies man it lives on stage and every show you do yeah I decided that it was so good for me that I would honor it by having it appear in every play I ever do and he has wherever I go I performed in Italy he came England and he you can't be seen by the audience unless you really look like in Waiting for Godot it was it was all sand and he was buried up to his neck he's appeared in trash cans and it's Wars I give it to the stage manager and I say it's yours just hide it on stage and it's appeared from and and the costume people make costumes for it little tutus I just did this thing called good Ferraro and it was about a hamster and they made a hamster costume he's got a surfer costume it's really wonderful you can't take it too seriously man I guess once he wears a surfer costume well you made your Broadway debut in Robert Shaw's play the man in the glass booth directed by Harold Pinter how magical was that time in making a debut old working with Harold Pinter a great story I was doing something for the new that called the new theatre I think it was thin in those days and they were producing this play that that Harold I can call him Harold because we became we became friends long distance years later when we were doing the 24th anniversary of The Caretaker he came to supervise the production he really cares about he cared about his work it's a wonderful man hmm but very strong face with these marvelous dark dark eyes and he was a good-looking man and the audition there's a big company I know this happens very often unless his state-supported but there must have been 16 17 people in this company and my role the one that I was up for was of a tailor and the seeing was I show up briefly I measure him I have a few lines and then I'm off and then I had two more appearances one as a guard and one as a witness from South Africa the point is the audition was in the theatre and I was introduced to him and I was nervous trying to be cool how do you do how do you do how do you know I said hi he said what are you going feel get up on the stage I said so do you want to hear some Shakespeare I don't know why I said because he's British what an he said we're not doing shakes and I thought you finished them you're dead so I went up I said honk okay and I went up on the stage and he said all right the stage manager was there and he said all right I want you to measure this man for some clothing that's why the pantomime did you know got the whole thing at this whole thing you know you do what you do right it got the picture and he said and that was it and they said thank you very much and I said that's it and he said this is true story he said I think we've seen what you can do and I said I don't feel like I've done a goddamn thing and I left in that afternoon they said he wants you to be in this play Oh true story that is a cool yeah all right this is we're good talk about auditioning because I asked a lot of stars this question we have an audience full of actors and watching around the world who say I'm a good actor but I'm not always the best in the audition room what is your advice to people in this thing about the movies and meeting people for parts I don't audition anymore but I still meet people they want to know you want to know if they can get along with you and I keep forgetting that aspect I've saw some very important director maybe it's several three four five months ago whatever it was and I'm a director I like and I'm sitting in his place in LA his office and a nice enough man and it seems like we're getting along and at one point I don't know I I don't know how to explain it but something just stupid came out of my mouth what are the mounds - is that IIIi had found out and decided at one point you can't go into this thing angry that you have to go through this and it's easy to say but it's like I don't know I am what doesn't he recognized my talent and and me me going through this like I say five six whatever months ago with all the body of work I've had behind me I proved myself at one point in that dis little friendly discussion and it was really we're having a pretty good time I felt this thing happen you thing guess who didn't get the job the point is my point is well make what you have to try to remember is that they have you in there because they they don't know what they want or if the role is already taken and they're just going through the motions because sag after says they have to that's still your opportunity to be seen now what is it that you have to offer that they've never seen you it's the only thing that they have never seen before is what you are and that's what you have to tap into easy to say but that's it and they do want to be surprised they do want to see something new and if they've got the role already cast at least if you if you present yourself as that kind of with that kind of mentality you're not there because you're pissed off you don't want to be there you're there because you want them to meet you and if you can think of it this way you're auditioning them do I want to work for this schmuck I mean you see bad attitude some of them are not Schmucks but you know my point you get my point but and we all know this but it's just doing it sucking it up don't make excuses or I came through the rain oh I lost my thing I get my god you don't want to hear that they want to know who you are and even if they seem to be just not even listening to you that's all right thank you very much and leave when it's finished I mean it's also alpa chino told me that he liked he saw that as an opportunity to act because form you know years you know we weren't getting a job and you have to act where you can and that's what how he viewed that as an opportunity to rehearse I have no more advice than that if I if I knew all if the right answer I wouldn't have blown so many opportunities I've done a lot of that I don't regret mistakes but you don't have to make those mistakes do that's a great advice thank you for that really wonderful you knew that you had this glorious career on stage screen and television so let's chat about some of the highlights take anyone he's got ice and if that's the ice one these are the not iced let's talk about some of the highlights and just tell me what comes to mind a memory or a story highlights of what your career well you have quite a history with renowned playwright Terrence McNally yeah you have done and I told him earlier you've done more Terrence McNally plays and any other actor yeah great great stuff great he said he's a friend he's a neighbor writer on the street from me but there was a there's a play that I did with Helen Mirren what are the great ladies I've ever ever known ever worked with but there we did this tour Dania we did month in the country when it was up it's well above the bond store they used to have a theater on the second floor and it was a big thrust and the the audience was just about where you are that close just like this and it was his big drive and there were these tedious long speeches that she had I had a great part miguel skis wonderful part but she she she had this these it she had a big shawl and she would walk and and and and talk makes it make these long speeches and this was a subscription audience so generally speaking the matinee audiences were older people who came and slept and helen would do this and she was doing the speech should take off her strolling don't you love it we had we had these we got she got terrible reviews it was a shame she was wonderful I mean I I just love she was wonderful and a woman's woman in a man's woman you know she's just a personal person you want to be around anyhow I used to I used to warm up every night before the show and the star's dressing room wizard-like overlooks the theater and I would be working out for about 15 minutes and then she would come at one point open there and go the play the reviews were just they just scorch it but but she if we began to try to make each other break up corpse they call it but laugh and and a rubber chicken began to appear but she wouldn't break it but it was a pretty sizable rubber chicken and we had these these closes 19th century 20 to 19th century cuts big voluminous and I play the doctor and I had this big briefcase big doctor's briefcase and I had this a true story I had the briefcase here so the audience couldn't see and I didn't pull the chicken out of this case I pulled that out of my pants that got her and it's only a play well let's speak about it's only a play in Terrence McNally the last Terence badali play you did was it's only a play it was a monster head right yeah tell the audience who you cheat that show with Oh Nathan lang Matthew Broderick oh gosh I'm sorry for you because she was brilliant I mean we all got a hand when we came as a great entrance you know it was really marvelous it was a stairway going up to these big double doors and every time someone came on everyone would applaud mostly for Nathan every single time I was explaining that we would count afterwards seven every single time but with Stockard she had two exits and every time she made the exit they would applaud again it was a winner show as far as a crowd-pleaser and before we opened they were selling more than a million dollars a week and and they were wrapping more than a million bucks a week before we open and it's not a musical it's it was a big hit Nathan was something I guess one of the most absolutely the most consistent performances I've ever seen there in Angels in America I did it with that wonderful actor who shame on me maybe me and my name's Stephen Spinella Stephen yeah if you didn't see Stephen yeah too bad for you because that was a remarkable performance and he gave 100% every single time used to eat five or six bananas for each performance because of the energy that he was expending I used to go out and watch him do this specific scene every single night it was marvelous anyway what a great play let's talk about Angels in America I loved you in this play for any of you who got to see him play Roy Cohn in the original production up Angels in America brilliant good performance what was it like tackling that role and mmm maybe he's not a very well liked is really hard yeah so what was it like for you you know if you play if you I can say Macbeth this is not a theatre right this is yeah I played some bad guys I played a lot of bad guys and it was it's not a big deal you know you work it out and you do it cuz but playing someone who a historic figure with with whom you have a connection it's hard to do because I couldn't get past my dislike of that man and IIM a it's a terrible thing for an actor to admit but III something was getting between me and accomplishing the character the performance I didn't have anybody put me in by the way the director was not available and the stage manager was brand-new he had never done the show before so I was putting myself in with his help that's all so I was but but I you know the play was a success you just fit yourself in and I was watching it every night no excuses but it took me I guess it was about I don't know about a month and I it's a great character I I just was missing I mean I was delivering a performance and it was satisfying enough so it was accomplishing the play but it wasn't white it wasn't right and someone I forget who it was one of the producers someone I trusted and liked I what's wrong he said you're making him too nice and of course it's that same problem that we all have but most of us anyway we want to make sure that the audience knows that's not really us we're really wonderful we're just acting because I don't want to be identified with Roy Cohn but that's not your job he said you've got to make him really nasty you can cover him with being charming but he is a prick and as soon as I started attacking him that way I felt the audience come on my side oddly enough they I felt them gather behind Roy Cohn because they recognized who he was through me but I suppose they they just don't know how to explain it I guess the the more vicious you make the Scottish character the more accomplice ed the more satisfying he is Richard third is easier I think then the Scottish play because he's charming it can be funny there's nothing funny about you know the guy the Mac but I hope I hope I don't want to carry on too much I don't know if I could play Hitler for example I I've seen good performances of it but I played Stalin as a comic which was fun I I guess I've made myself clear well we're gonna stay on this topic of the most challenging who was the most challenging role you've tackled on stage and who was the easiest for you the easiest was Chris from the Ritz okay a very flamboyant gay man in the days when it was dangerous to be flamboyantly gay and that was what Terence tried to accomplish it takes place in the gay baths before anyone knew that they were giving each other AIDS it was pre aid so the the baths were there was there was sex everywhere many times a night with these guys most of the castes by the way from that show is dead of the plague my closest friend Godfather of both of my children but anyhow the point is that it was wild and free and and a big cast but in that cast the the same aspersion on the stage was my character who was completely out but it was a statement I think Terrence was making that you can you can be that gay and you can be sane and everybody else is nuts I got that character but most of his work I get immediately it's one of those people you know those writers that you connect with that but there are some there are there are some characters I just I feel like I never got it so it's hard I'll tell you about I didn't have much preparation for for a caretaker I like to prepare I like to be very prepared and I didn't I didn't do the part from the beginning for the first rehearsal the guy who was doing it wonderful actor got very sick and they needed a replacement so I was thrust in in the middle of the rehearsal period and I had to learn this cockney accent and what's worse than a bad accent you know and I knew it wasn't very good and had to work on it and work on these immense speeches anyway I just felt like I I hated what I was doing because I knew what the part could be and I wasn't accomplishing it and I used to wake up and you know when you do a play it's the first thing on your mind when you open your eyes you could that play with with with someone like bottom in Midsummer Night's Dream I couldn't wait to get to the theater and I'd really love doing that play boy oh boy what a treat but with with the caretaker I hated all day long I dreaded like I started thinking maybe there's gonna be an earthquake maybe maybe there's a fire maybe I can be mugged I'm serious I hate I just and not I do it and I get through it and then it started to get better and better and then Harold came I think after I remember exactly he at one point he was talking to us he said what performance is it and I always calibrate that get you an idea of where you're going and I remember exciting that's that's no one knew and I said of course 13th performance he said it it still has a way to go it still has a way to go he said I like to talk with Murray alone he was really just and he sits there and I was I was gushing in my dressing room and here was Harold Pinter and he had come and he wanted to be alone and I was saying this and he had some a bit he looked a bit like my brother God rest his soul really they had the same eyes and I was telling about this and that and at one point he stopped he stopped he reached over and he did this he said it's a great part isn't it I thought this is a playwright he wants to hear that it's a great part isn't it I said look at that I said yeah it's one of the greatest parts modern parts ever written and he said it gave me a few things to think about for the show and that's when it finally began to improve anyway that's great but it was hard it was hard but have you ever been in that position where you know you're not any good what's worse it's like it's like it's like it's like a very bad date I thought I wanted to do maybe there'll be an earthquake one of your favorite you would love to work with me we all have to do the work but you have to have a good time too I think everybody in this house wants to work with you your favorite role as one of your favorites or is your favorites that's my that's the greatest thing I ever did that Roy Cohn's not far behind it's interesting that I'm Syrian and most of my roles my good roles have been Jews yeah go figure what is it about and the credible play I don't know sometimes you have a connection with the park you know I mean just because it's a great part doesn't mean you have a connection with it but I have one with this I remember the first time I read it I thought poor some of these lines I mean what an opportunity and we did it successfully and then we took it to stratford-on-avon I did it four blocks from where Shakespeare was born I and my company the company was with it was it was we were successful and so we had that behind us sold out everywhere we went but when we went there it was part of a festival called the complete works the RSC was doing all of Shakespeare in one year and they had invited different companies to do different plays the poetry the the sonnets everything in one year and we were invited to work there for a week so I got to to work out I got there about a week early before the company and have you ever seen a reproduction of a shakespeare theatre the stalls are like straight up and there are three of them three three mouth levels and there are two rows only obscene back here there there's there's a there's a seat here and then behind you there's a higher seat and and and when you walk in it's a different thing you suddenly have to play up you have to do this and then when I get goose pimples when I think about because it elevated the performance as I say we were very successful this was a different charge this was different lifts and and when I went out for the first time and I saw these people because these people love Shakespeare they came to see Shakespeare that's why they were there from all over the world and they were doing this they were doing this all these heads show us give it to him it was fabulous that was a real experience was an eye-opener because I I was good in that part I was really good but it was something else when that happened that's something to say about the space you work in that's something I try to clarify we always hear it you know when you're giving a class or you're coming from someplace you're going into someplace establish the place for yourself that's another thing about auditioning establish the place for yourself make it your own if there are two chairs make sure you select the right and chair make sure you sit in such a way that you are comfortable establish your place it's yours there was a wonderful story Ken Kesey a good writer he had agreed this years ago he had agreed to to teach a class a writer's class and after he did he said what have I done I don't know anything about teaching a class on writing and it was gonna be in his barn they were gonna gather it I think was eight or nine riders proven writers of course they were screened and he said this is what we're going to do we're going to each of us create a each of you is gonna create a character and this is gonna be a character driven story your characters are going to drive this whatever plot happens your characters will decide it and they grumbled and they started and after about the third week things were going and I think in the fourth week one of the writers couldn't come and the week after that when he showed up the other writers had killed his character my point is it's your responsibility as an actor to protect your character if you don't do it he deserves to be killed it's your space and some actors they do it automatically if you don't if you don't make limits um on incursions if you don't insist on who your character while you're trying to find it they will automatically take that space because it's a the play is it's it's whatever it is an hour and a half two hours long it's got to be filled up and if you don't fill it up if your character doesn't they have a right of responsibility to fill it for you I'm not talking about getting into fights but sometimes it it gets pretty hairy why'd you get my point beautiful thank you for this some of your earlier films you work with so many great people I mean your earlier films George C Scott Robert Redford Al Pacino what were those early years like for you doing those films what did you take away from that happy to be working yeah oh really it's that simple there were there were nice big Robert Redford was terrific to work with a nice man fine everything was fine Sidney Lumet yeah was a terrific I never worked with him again no Don it was a shame we did Serpico and Al was we had known each other we weren't friends but we had known each other we were and he he was very he's a very generous actor and I had a very small part in it and he said he would say after after one of the little scenes with did you like it are you you want to do it again do you feel and Loonette just was let's get it done let's go let's go because he knew exactly what he wanted and there's a scene the one I'm in with him we're in a car and it's it's cold and we're all in there and he's about to go get shot in the face and we shot this in the in that in there I think was a lower yeast side before it got built up it was like looks like a disaster area and and that's what we were shooting this and it was if you look at the scene you'll see a song like it was almost a hundred degrees so all that stuff you see is acting you know class you know when you started working in film did you grasp the art of acting on film right away cuz I love to add no stage actors no no but what we did I don't know what you doing well now the equipment is such that you have available to you because it's not terribly expensive like it was then it wasn't even available to see yourself on film that's important to see what you look like see see how you come across but in those days there were no cameras were ponderous and we had tape those canisters of that what do they call video yeah video tapes VHS thank you and we used to do that we used to do commercials but what's happening with commercials is that I would ask they were very generous I said could I have a copy of my audition and then I built up this reel and I would watch myself to see how I came across but you can do that yourselves now and it's important that you do in case you haven't had that much experience in front of a camera do the scene do a monologue a piece of a monologue as though you're on stage do it full-out then take a look at what it looks like that'll tell you immediately what you have to do to make the adjustment you receive the Oscar and just about every other conceivable award you know where I'm going everybody go right ahead and accolades for your brilliant performance in the film of Amadeus for director Milos Forman yeah how life-changing was that film oh is a life-changing sure the problem that I faced with that was that I really became very very full of myself and it's a it's a danger because in Europe I was treated really like a prince and uh and it was getting these amazing offers for not very good films but I got some good offers here from some great directors but I refused to do any supporting roles they said I'm no longer a supporting actor and there were some wonderful films which I frankly I should have done I didn't have good enough advice or I was just too full of myself hubris and I was so sure I wasn't being hubristic I was sure was being above it all and and I I was I really meant it I I won't go into the films I didn't take I will tell you that there were some great things that were offered if I had only not been such a jerk but I was I thought I was doing the right thing I really believed that there was a commercial for example for I don't know one of the like IBM and it was another big make up I was - they offered me $100,000 for a day's work to do and I was broke but I had I had quit doing commercials years before I said I don't want to do any more commercials I think it's making it too slick I want to be known as a serious actor I really did that but the point is it was for me it's not for the world it was because of my mentality I wanted to be better anyway the point is they said under thousand you play the you got a play Leonardo da Vinci it was gonna be this makeup this and it would be like one day's work more money than I had made in the last five years practically the point is I didn't do it Ian McKellen did it I mean he was smarter than I was but anyway he was established enough he could do that the point I'm making is we do what we do you-you-you wonder after that before but in Europe it was another thing altogether I I had these offers to go all over the world I mean I I can't tell you what it's like to go I think let's do a movie in Sri Lanka let's do a movie in Budapest but it's not just a movie it's it's sweets it's a personal driver who's available to you 24 hours a day it's all this money it's per diem to drive you crazy it's the point is I was doing a lot of really terrible movies I mean not terrible but they were not these giant Italian extravaganzas that people like John Gielgud would be part of he would do two or three days work they pay him a lot of money and then use his name so it wasn't that I was the only one who was whoring himself I was in good company but anyways it it was a it was a lineup of these international celebrities started he was a very nice man by the way but Burt Lancaster was wonderful to work with but my point is I got to meet all these people which I'm starstruck you know and and I was making some money you know putting it away from my kids education that kind of thing I'm not ashamed of it but now I mean people ask how could you Wow you do it and besides there's always the theater there's always the classics yeah because the week after you won the Oscar did you return to the mirror Theatre Company and work with Geraldine page right yeah we did we did madwoman of Chaillot for what a performance that was Jesus she was fantastic like goosebumps cuz I oh she was great we were great together you wanted to work with her right you know yeah yeah we got we just made the connection immediately but you could have done anything in the world yeah and you came back to work for a very small companies of fabulous come very small money to yeah yeah what can I mention but Geraldine page what was that experience sharing the stage with her was she was a great actress she was she loved acting he would have loved her not everyone does yeah uh I did we had it it was great to see her work have worked with her yeah doesn't happen too often I felt the same way about Helen in a different way though didn't have much do with her unfortunately but yeah it was it was wonderful it was that kind of thing that happens you know why you why you do it you thought oh yeah this is this is why I do it this is this is magic yeah what did you enjoy the most about working with me loss Foreman oh well me no shouldn't I it was he was not a sentimental man God rest his soul but I gotta tell you man he insisted on me and Tom I mean that's amazing because you know he could have had anyone in the world to do those roles there was some very famous actors one of which one of whom came to meals with his own makeup man to audition for this very famous people he said he said I don't want to use someone who will distract from the film anyway that was very lucky for me it was lucky that that producer backed him up all the way too by the way he he had a nose for the truth he had a deep voice you know by baritone voice he's almost low baritone the thoughts he says and he was he would say no no no that's it said once to Lloyd Roy dotrice pretty good cast by that Roy it's to Act II you it's too much acting clam down very good so we did the scene is it no no now you're acting like you're acting [Applause] but the thing about mailers was by the way when when a director tells you you're acting too much that's that's that's a bad director we all understand that right don't act well you what I do I'm an actor don't direct [Applause] anyway but the thing about Melies was if I was going in in a certain with the script like that it's really hard to lose hard to miss that's a great script take a look at it one day and we I would be doing something and he would he would be just very simple and he would talk and and say try this try this but it was always you know when someone is full of you can smell it it's it's like you think they don't know what they're doing we've all been there but with Mila she had a nose and an ear for the truth and after a couple of like a sessions you realized you could trust him completely to make to do the for you to to get the best that you had to offer that just doesn't happen often enough I felt the same way about a man whose politics I really hated I I really can never forgive any a Kazan for what he did but what a great director I mean his communication with actors there are too many consistently marvelous performances in his film he was a great director there aren't that many I think someone mentioned something about beautiful women some a lot of people present beautiful women Michael Curtis had a reputation for knowing about them how to speak with him how to be with them not flatter them but they trusted him right and good-looking men have same problem I saw a picture of what am I talking about oh gosh she's a wonderful he's really my my point is there are certain things fiscal characteristics we have there are a lot of the business no matter how good you are you know as well as I is good fortune and sometimes it's just they don't like what you look like whether you're too beautiful or not beautiful enough for you to taller you it's just something it happens sometimes but we all go out of these auditions knowing that something's wrong and blaming ourselves this is a mistake but we do it I mean we walk down the street repeating the life I should have said this I should have done that yeah but but but this thing about I know too many good actors who just don't work it's not their fault that doesn't mean you have to quit but sometimes you have to sometimes you see okay back off take a breather but if you're gonna stay in the business you got to keep your chops up I don't know about classes are like these days but I I work out every day I really I've oka lies I study the sonnets Shakespeare sonnets I learned them I've memorized quite a few of them just to keep my my memory working because I'm getting old I'm not getting old I'm own I'm usually twice as old as most of the people in the companies that I'm working for I'm not exaggerating by too much but you get my drift it's too easy to just quit to call yourself an actor but not really do any acting it's unfortunate that the theater is so expensive that's all because we really should go to everything and agiza that these prices is ridiculous I mean there was a time is this still true with equity that that there are free tickets available the shows it's very important to see everything you can we used to be able to walk in it to the second act shows they were very open handed about that just show up and say I'm an actor kid sure I don't they do that anymore yeah it's important you and I started talking upstairs about actors up today as opposed to when you were starting out as an actor and we started to talk about just how society is a little more angrier now or whatever do you think it's easy was it easier when you started out as an actor everything was easier then because for the prices were much lower yeah I was able to live here my wife and I we're living here we're in in Manhattan with a nice big one-bedroom apartment on the Upper East Side Upper West Side uh 98th and Broadway for 150 bucks a month yeah it was a big place no no it was it was it was numbered wait this apartment used to be eight rooms and they had cut it not in half but like in the third and we had a third the hallway the it was about as wide as this thing and about I don't know I'd say about eight feet maybe ten feet deep that led into the living room and then on the right I remember this so I was so happy about the place right the kitchen used to be a bedroom so I could seat eight people in my kitchen and then it had that I had two baths 149 dollars a month so it was much easier than I was a waiter and I was really a terrible later very very charming but terrible but we were able to make the rent I love that after amedeo's you worked with some incredible directors and you continue to work with incredible directors on film and stuff do you of some of your favorites well Mila of course yeah changed my life Brian DePalma oh I love Brian yeah oh you know Brian used to pace up and down during the during the the filming because he'd mimic with him right I didn't yeah no bonfire on fire but yeah that's right but I would pace he would pace yeah well the thing was going on but he was Hebrews I really liked him I know some people say they don't get along with I don't understand that yeah but he was he knew exactly what he wanted it was terrific to meet someone who knows and you trust but the yet but but Milosz when we started to turn but sit as close as he could to the camera I mean he would he wanted to be the lens and be completely still it was like he was drawing you into his to his vision yeah was it was it was terrific there quite a few who directed all the President's Men he was sensational I had a very small part he was such a gentleman that's another movie that he had later that he asked me to be in and I said no the part is not big enough what a schmuck what was Woody Allen like working with could you do my yeah what he is he would stand very still with his hat and his glasses and people would stand around him in in circles of people waiting for him to to tell him what to do and he would very quietly say it and everyone would do it was very quiet on this set very much in control he was this is where the buck stops and it wasn't commandeering he wasn't he wasn't anything but just simply in control it was a pleasure to be around yeah really something and he too knew exactly what he wanted he used to say you say anything you want try and try that you know because we do take up today yeah and I I was so frozen you know it's it's interesting isn't it all that experience all these awards all this success and I was frozen IIIi I'm a good improviser I mean I'm not great but I can do it I it just couldn't do it it was I don't know how to explain that I guess I was in all of him but he was nice to work with his wife is terrific yeah lovely lady you know we saw I was talking about mimic which was Guillermo del Toro's ah what is he liked oh well you know he's Mexican yeah so we would speak in Spanish I mean it was it was a pleasure yeah he's a he's a I don't know what the word is in English but in Yiddish it's mention he's a real mention he's a guy and he really likes his work was a pleasure you know going back to the beginning when you how did you get rid of your accent would you listen to records Oh once I decided it'll be an act yeah I got I may still have something I have a big collection of the spoken word yeah and ice began to listen to I you know I hooked into the the British that's it's always a mistake we make but that's what we did I and I started to listen to Olivier whom I worshipped and Gielgud is his sonnets and Ralph Richardson I like I loved him and then I discovered John Barrymore if you've never heard his Hamlet there there are recordings of it it's pretty exciting but he's the one I really latched into it was no it was it was more American and it has a different energy which I began but I was impersonating the Brits first to break out of the Mexican accent and when I go back to Texas it kind of sneaks back in by the way I love it doesn't automatically you also enter the world of Star Trek with insurrection oh that was one of my favorite Star Trek films what did you enjoy the most about being a part of the story well first of all they they're very welcoming sometimes you know that kind of very successful operation is exclusive they weren't and the the director Jonathan he Jonathan Frakes he used to be a a singer on Broadway he was a baritone singer and he's a good director good guy I just did something with him again the reason I did that thing was because of him anyway I went out to California to do something they said come on please this is a great part for you come on we'll keep we'll fly you out in a private plane in that case god don't you love Holly what is great anyway Jonathan I had all this makeup on we've taken two three four hours but all this makeup on you know and he and I would sing duets from Oklahoma with this outrageous this is true by the way another wonderful guy is just being my name in this in Brooklyn he's the British actor the bar thank you very much Scott he's a nice nice man very generous by the way he has a lot of fat textures - he established he quietly has established some really important foundations by the way the first one was for battered women yes his mother was one of the battered women anyway the point is he's a good guy and in this is a true story all the things I tell you are true so I'm the bad guy and I'm chasing Patrick Stewart I'm gonna kill him with my ray gun you know running and jumping is a big set and they had I don't know five five five cameras because it was a big thing and what's doing this and there's going but but they you know they nothing happens you know you just hold it they put they put the Ray in later on so so they say okay that's good won't do it again so I went back the whole choreographer you know was jumping around I always in good shape that I'm just chipping in and then they said okay we're in do it I said what I mean add and yeah you've got five cameras they've had two takes that was a good one what do you say well you're making noise [Laughter] I'm gonna Kadim II award I said let me hear it me I was going 300 million dollar motion pictures that is hilarious God have a few questions on the audience this person wants to know do you think there is a difference between how mature male and mature female actors are viewed if so and is it ever too late for a person to pursue an acting career oh gosh that's tough I mean for women it's really tough yeah I thought that many roles that what we're seeing more and more women directing producing writing so there's hope because the mnsure have it up you know but not all of them but you know what I'm saying of course it's never too late man no do it if you I mean come on they told me my whole when I said I was gonna be an actor they like my family my father almost died I mean you're gonna be a lawyer no I'm gonna be a lawyer I would be an actor I mean he almost threw me out of the house anyway uh no well if you what did checkoff say to his brother when his brother asked him if he should write he said if you can't live without it don't do it I can't live without it it's that simple and if you if you if you want to pursue then you will pursue it what do you think you dissuade someone go ahead break your heart all right another question is how did you that's what's hard for people to understand yeah that it's you that is rejected and when people talk about excuse me this thing about oh go ahead okay when people talk about how do you teach acting they say it that way how do you teach act well how do you teach music it's it's it's a discipline and it's a technique this is the way you hit all these notes in music and I'm gonna try to help you to hit certain notes in your acting what is impossible to teach is is is inspiration and that's where I think that people forget that the difference between what is how can you teach acting you can teach people how to do something so that it looks better so that it works better what they can physically be aware of how the difference between between this kind of thing and this kind of thing is a very different thing how it affects your voice how it affects who and what you are what happens when you wear heels your voice does change everything changes if you begin to be aware of these things that's what I think teaching acting is as well as helping out with you know motives and intent and at all all that stuff but the reason you're doing it all is to find the inspiration as far as I'm concerned beautiful how did you prep for Nathan the wise absolutely brilliant she was I love that part I just I really believed that character I believed him sincerely that's that's all it was not hard it was hard to it was not hard yeah some things are but that wasn't yeah yeah you returned to London's West End stage epi' 21 years starring to great acclaim and Daniel kellman's play the mentor how much fun was that what did you enjoy the most about working on that new play there's nothing like a new play I love the classics but there's nothing like a new play if it's a choice between classics and a new play so I'll take the new play every time try it out see what see what it's seeing see what makes it fly it was it was one of their some great speeches I had and that in that play and I liked the theater and I liked the producer she's a very important producer I didn't know that at the time we had done the play originally Daniel Kalman wrote the most successful European novel out of Germany since perfume it was hugely successful he's a young man lives here in Manhattan and Berlin and terrific guy I keep saying these terrific things about people there are certain people I don't mention if you have maybe may have noticed the point is he is he's a good good guy and we did it in bath a magical place and it was a success in a hundred seat house a little tiny fear and this woman picked it up she wanted to do it at a place called the vaudeville vaudeville on the Strand in London and it was two or three doors down from kinky boots huge crowds the crowd stayed away from us in droves but I got I got never mind I got nice reviews the point is the play didn't quite come together but she had real class she has she runs five theaters five of the most important theaters she's this unassuming woman about this big and she just was ecstatic about the play she was so so sorry that it didn't work but she insisted on keeping it open and what she did was imported children's show a successful children show into the theater in the daytime so that we could stay open for a while she also she is the producer of the Harry Potter plays so she's no slouch but she was she's just this person who loves the theater and she had to leave to go up to Scotland for the that great they the Fringe Festival a week before we closed but rather than just say goodbye she gave us this lavish expensive party and that's really as far as I'm concerned that was almost unheard of and it was it kind of renews your faith yeah in in in in certain like in producers who do care enough to do that kind of generous generous very good wine I know something about that and Friedman wasn't it yeah no no it was it was Nikki anyway my point is they're not all jerks you know they really aren't you know recent you did well by the way one of the things about the British actors I asked a woman who was in three tall women they've the British lady in three God you see how I am they all know who you're talking about she did a little symposium and I asked her what is the essential difference between British actors and American actors and she said with the British I was she was very forthcoming she said British actors are a little removed with American actors it's the most important thing in the world and what American actors do is go to class as professionals they don't do that in Britain it's an interesting comment yeah one of your recent projects was the television adaptation of Lucy Kirkwood's play he's a chaya merica yeah China America China America I mean look at you Jerry Jones Sophie Okonedo yeah yeah and Alejandra Duvall all right that's right what was it he was in month in the country with us was it like working on that for the BBC well it was it was interesting they they took me to London to play the editor of the New York Times but uh but I was I was staying in a sometimes the perks of the business are good when the business is good it's very good and I was in this fabulous suite anyhow it was great because the director was was marvelous Scottish director who I had trouble understanding and I and I said it I mean we had a good time but it was uh it was fun to see them trying to make some of the exteriors look like New York because one of the scenes took place in Washington Square Park about three blocks from where I live I went to London to shoot it but when you asked what it was like you mean what was the difference no just working with that cast cherry and I go back we did Lear together but when it's good it's good she's a terrific actress and a good person yeah so you know what can I tell you we when it's good it's good and that was good isn't it wonderful when you have the kind of career that you do that you get to work with these incredible people yeah over and over it's one of the best things yeah so some of them you don't like either that's the bad part we know you recently voice roles in two films Isle of Dogs and How to Train Your Dragon I'd love to talk to actors How to Train Your Dragon when I went out there do you know this thing How to Train Your Dragon I didn't well it said it's an animated things very successful right yo-yo I'm in the third one they were looking for a bad guy and they had auditioned someone I don't know it was it doesn't make any difference uh but they said suddenly someone said this is it this is the guy I had done I don't I don't I can't tell you how much I like louis c.k I mean that's what he did but he Fester but the fact is I did three different spots with him three different characters and one of the characters by the way he writes produces directs of stars in it and everything is calm on the set we did a scene in the Russian Tea Room we I take it there very early to get done before the lunch crowd we had to get done before 11:30 and get out so but but there was never a feeling of pressure and this the scene was just him and me and he had written this character it was the second one I did the first one was another guy but this one was his uncle and I played his uncle and he was a he's a real jerk you know superior man and what they did at DreamWorks when the guy said that's the character is they took a line of several lines of dialogue from the Lucy Kaye thing and gave it to an animator and said draw a character around that voice isn't that interesting and they drew it and they then they said ask mr. Abraham if he would be interested and they sent me this thing which has all this these disclaimers like this you know it's like it's like Mission Impossible this will explode in 30 seconds you know no it has a time code anyhow the point is that that it I saw this character and I heard my voice in this character that was someone created and the adjustment that I went through was to do the voice that I did but I had to make an adjustment to the face that I saw it was an interesting acting exercise by the way I don't know how to describe it but the voice had to adjust again to that and I was delighted because the pay was good and it was about a three hour session it's tough solo two three four hours I don't know if you books but anyhow we can talk about that too but then they came back and said alright we have to do another session me too I've done for suddenly the pay was not so good I mean you know it pays good but there's gonna be residuals if it's a success the point is when I went out to LA three three four weeks ago it was to do that thing with Jonathan Frakes and it was this thing and I said well since I'm out there can we do the the next recording at DreamWorks cuz I'll be there they said yeah come on out what an operation it's they got 800 people working there are you surprised I guess not I was shocked 800 people they have usually 200 guests coming through this whole complex a lovely layout yeah and they feed them all lunch every day free lunch anyway that was a new experience for me that's interesting isn't it after all these years that was a completely new experience great do you enjoy that doing the voices for these caps oh yeah are you kidding yeah yeah yeah Wes Anderson is there's an ad there's a director you want to meet do you know do you all know the the the little prince he is the little prince grown-up is this brilliant innocent man from Texas could you worked with him on uh yeah yeah that was a good movie the grand the grand budapest hotel I start to hear you say it what a great cast mr. Mustafa I thought that was mr. fines best performance frankly what uh what a wonderful surprise you loved working with Wes right well I'll do anything with him yeah yeah we were we shot the film grand Budapest in Germany not far from the Polish border and we were in this boutique boutique this little hotel and we had taken over the whole hotel he had taken over the hotel and all these very famous actors would come in for one day's work they loved him so much that coming they spend more time traveling than they did working 1-2 days were and we would all when we ate to get we would all eat together in these big communal tables with the crew gasps it was it was great yeah my final question for you is what is the best bit of advice that you've been given either personally or professionally that you live by well it's the one that I say that I came up with for my classes don't be afraid that's it that's the best don't be afraid see I want to thank you for one of the most magical nights one of the most honest and what a masterclass my friend ladies and gentlemen [Applause]

Channel: SAG-AFTRA Foundation

Views: 10,139

Rating: 4.9053254 out of 5

Keywords: SAG Foundation, SAG-AFTRA Foundation, Acting, Actors, F. MURRAY ABRAHAM, Conversations, Amadeus, Academy Award Winner, House Of Geraniums, The Bridge Of San Luis Rey, Where Love Begins, The Name Of The Rose, Finding Forrester, Scarface, The Bonfire Of The Vanities, The Ritz, Star Trek: Insurrection, The Grand Budapest Hotel, Inside Llewyn Davis, Robin Hood, How To Train Your Dragon 3

Id: 7YQB03OrUf0

Length: 90min 27sec (5427 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 13 2018