The Sun Soul Monk: D&D Build #164

ever wanted to play a Suns Soul monk in D and D no   come on well hey you might want to  after watching this video Welcome to [Music] D4 hey everybody so here at D4 each week  we take a deep dive into character builds for our   favorite role playing games I like to crunch  numbers about them Theory craft about them not   so that I can tell you the right way or the  best way to play a certain character but to   explore one potential way to build something  in the hopes of creating a character that's   both really fun but also really powerful to  play so if you enjoy creating characters for   your favorite role playing games almost as much  as you enjoy playing the actual game itself or   if you're just looking for tips or ideas on  how to build something that you're thinking   about playing or this week if you're just hoping  to see me crash and burn then welcome home this   is where you belong I am so glad you're here so  thanks for watching my name's Colby if you enjoy   what I do here I'd appreciate it if you'd consider  joining the channel as a member there's a little   button down there that says join click on it'll  tell you about all the little perks you can get   by being a channel member including access to the  library of writeups that I make for each of these   builds access to the D4 Discord server which is  filled with tons of lovely and wonderful people   and even access to the monthly live Q&A hangout  sessions that we do huge thank you and shout out   shout out to all my channel members you guys I  couldn't do this without you truly thank you and   everybody else thank you too just watching liking  subscribing commenting ringing that notifications   Bell these are great ways to support the channel  too if you don't really want to be a member that's   okay all right so yeah that's right I finally  going to do it I mean I've always said that monks   were my favorite class in D and D conceptually  at least and to date the only subass that I have   never used in any build for monks is the Suns Soul  monk why did I put it off for so long well it's   quite simply because in my opinion anyways it is  mechanically the worst subass for the mechanically   weakest class as much as I love them in all of D  and D 5 yeah I said it I would love to hear you   tell me why I'm wrong in the comments I did a poll  recently uh and most of you seem to think that uh   the four elements Takes the Cake for worst monks  sub class but I mean I know Chris Triant monk has   my back when it comes to the sun Soul he even  posted a video ranking monk subclasses which   you can watch right up there and yeah sunel comes  in last we can argue about which is worse but you   know the real question is why are they so bad  why do I think they're so bad well first of   all because they're monks I appreciate that a lot  of you may disagree with the sentiment that monks   are the worst subclass in the game but well uh  again most of my viewers at least seem to agree   with with that fact uh based on the poll that um  I did a week ago at the time of this recording but   I mean maybe you're all biased because you've  watched me whine about monks for so long but I   still think that you will find similar results  right if you look around in the DND Optimizer   community at large most people seem to agree monks  are pretty bad I'm not going to go into why monks   tend to be a little lackluster mechanically  in this video as that would probably be fairly   redundant but hey good news it looks like Wizards  of the Coast are fixing them in the version of   The Players handbook that will be out later this  year anyways check out why we think so by watching   this video here if you haven't seen it so yeah if  you're watching this video after the new players   handbook comes out later this year congratulations  you are likely anyways in a much better place   than those of us wallowing in the world of the  2014 monk but aside from the fact that they are   hampered by being monks suns are just they're  in a rough place conceptually I love the idea   a monk who is so in tune with their key and the  energy of the universe that they can Channel it   into ranged radiant attacks sounds awesome but in  practice the designers just really fell flat on   the mechanics I think the main feature really  radiant sunbolt is okay but it gives no more   damage than just making unarmed strikes and from  there the features they get just kind of get worse   and worse with each new feature at level six you  get to spend a bunch of key to cast a first level   situationally useful at best spell burning hands  which you can upcast for slightly more damage by   spending even more key at 11th level you get to  use your action to do what they call a devastating   and deadly [Music] explosion but which is actually  just 2 D6 damage seriously I mean sure you could   spend three key points to make that fireball level  damage but remember this is at 11th level now and   it's further hampered by the fact that enemies  make a constitution saving throw against the   damage way worse than Fireballs dexterity saving  throw and if the enemy succeeds on their Save   which they probably will because it's Constitution  they don't even take half damage yikes and then at   level 17 the Suns Soul monks get their Capstone  ability which makes them glow with light cool   and then if they get hit by a melee attack they  use their reaction to do like 10 damage at level   17 so yeah that's what we're working with but  you know what I'm not going to let the daunting   mechanical disadvantages deter me any longer too  many of you have been asking me to take a stab at   the subass over the years and I love monks too  much to not give it my best shot I made what I   think is a pretty decent way of the four elements  monk a while back uh check it out there and yeah   I mean a lot of people if you saw the poll argu  that four elements are actually worse than Sun   Souls so yeah let's give it our best shot we're  going to build this character for sustained damage   and I'm going to give myself this one rule I can  never have more levels in any other class than I   do in monk okay oh and quick note if you really  want to go even more sunso than we are going to   end up going in order to try and really lean into  that bursty area of effect damage stay tuned for   the final thoughts and I will quickly go over an  alternative build to this one that goes for like   area of effect burst damage all right okay let's  take a stab at dndd episode number 164 the Suns   Soul monk huge thanks to my good friend Randall  Hampton for the Fantastic artwork that he did for   this character build I love it it really captures  the vibe as you will see in a moment you might be   a little confused by the artwork if you are  interested in following Randall to check out   the other stuff that he does or maybe reaching out  to commission him to create art for your character   or your entire party even I'll put links in the  video description as always on how to do so but   first who what happened I want to tell you guys  about holzkern the sponsor for the video this   week these guys are a company out of Austria and  they make jewelry and other fashion pieces for   both men and women I just discovered this company  and I'm actually kind of in love with them all of   their products are made at least partially from  natural materials wood Stone Etc I kind of have   a little bit of like a woodsy earthy aesthetic  and so I really love that about their products   and it makes each one of them look and feel kind  of unique due to like the grains and stuff like   that right now Mother's Day is coming up and so  this was a perfect opportunity to uh get my wife   a couple of cool like jewelry products and check  out these like wooden boxes that they sent them   in so neat I got her this really cool kind of  Starburst like pendant that I know she's going   to love and um a cool little ring it's kind of  got some like mother of pearl going on on now   me personally I don't love wearing jewelry but I  am a sucker for a nice pair of sunglasses I got a   couple from them uh these are my favorites they've  got like a blue stained kind of maple on them so   cool and then I ordered another pair they've got  I believe it's like a little bit of Walnut on the   frame mhm awesome and yeah they come in a ton of  different like Styles varieties the watches are   particularly nice looking if you're a watch guy  or gal definitely check those out I mean they have   over a thousand designs between the jewelry the  watches the sunglasses Etc tons of really great   stuff to choose from now even though they're based  in Austria shipping on all of their products is   free and they do express shipping which means that  it's going to arrive in two to five business days   no matter where you live and even if there are  custom fees because you're out of country they pay   for them and if you're interested in getting your  mom or your partner something nice for Mother's   Day if you order by May 6th all orders are are  guaranteed to arrive by Mother's Day so go check   him out I'm confident that you will find something  that you like for you and for someone else in your   life when you go use this website if you would  holzkern D4 I'll put that in the video description   as well as a pinned comment in the comment section  and at checkout if you use the code D4 you're   going to save 15% off of your order which is very  generous so huge thanks to holran I'm a big fan   and I know my wife is going to love these pieces  that I got her all right let's get back to the   build all right at level one 4our starting class  yeah if you can believe it we're going to start   monk uh so that we can beine to the sun Soul's  best feature among other things for our starting   race though we're actually going to be taking two  races for this character yeah that's right or I   suppose more accurately One race and one lineage  as long as our DM is okay with it first of all   I'm going to want to start this character off as  a fairy this is for two main reasons one mechan   mechanical and one conceptual as for mechanics  yes among other things fairies can fly they get   a fly speed equal to their move speed and that's  I mean really strong obviously free flight the   equivalent of a third level spell that requires  concentration or you know a few very specific   magic items anyways is so good that a lot of DMS  don't allow flying races at their table for this   reason I very rarely use them in my builds the  only exceptions being the fun but gimmicky dive   bomber build uh there and the whiper will build  I might be out of cards if I'm not there if I am   that's the thumbnail but here's the thing we're  playing a sun Soul monk I can see DMS holding   the line if you were trying to get away with like  a gloomstalker ranger assassin fairy or a ranged   fighter with hand crossbows and Sharpshooter fairy  or even an eldrich blast focused warlock fairy but   come on we are seriously handicapping ourselves  here throw us a bone anyways I've never used a   ferry for a build before so that makes me kind  of excited to try them out as for the conceptual   reason I wanted to go fery we will get into that  as we go now what was that about lineage right   here's something else I don't use very often in  fact I think the only time I've done so was with   the ultimate vampire damper tank build and I yeah  I know I'm out of cards now so uh that's what the   thumbnail looks like as a refresher here's how the  lineages that came to us from Van rton guide to   Raven Loft work you either pick the lineage damper  hex blood or reborn as basically basically you're   starting race or you start with A different race  but then turn into one of these lineages later   on because of something that happened to your  character you become infected or cursed Etc if   you go that route and replace your starting race  with a lineage we are very specifically told that   we get to keep any skill proficiencies from that  original race plus any climbing swimming or you   guessed it flying speed we gained from our  original race so yes again this is something   that will require a little DM Buy in I think at a  lot of tables anyways you don't necessarily need   to work in the change to your character in game  though I think it'd be cool if you did but yeah   you could always come to the party at level one  having first been a fairy in your life and then   changed at some point in your backstory to this  lineage right but yeah of course talk this over   with your DM beforehand and make sure that they're  on board if they're not and or if they're not okay   with you playing a character who can fly then I  would probably just start with the lineage here   which for this character is going to be the hex  blood another first that's three firsts for this   video cool okay so hex Bloods are basically hags  and they get some fun like gross stuff that they   can do with their fingernails or rotten teeth  but the main reason we wanted to go hex blood   was because they get the hex magic feature which  tells us that we learned the disguised self spell   situationally useful and the hex spell which  we want for damage purposes now we can only use   these spells once per long rest for now but we  can use spell slots to cast them again later if   we multiclass into a spell casting class wink I  don't think you're supposed to say wink when you   wink hex of course lets us use our bonus action  to basically curse a Target so that thereafter any   attack we make against them and it doesn't have  to be a weapon attack that's important it does   an extra D6 of damage to the Target right cool so  yes here we are a small Flying Fairy who has been   turned into a hag it's it's like Tinkerbell's  evil twin or something but we're also a monk   who shoots radiant beams out of our hands what  is this character story I'm thinking that as a   fay creature they weren't really into the whole  my body as a weapon thing that most monks bring   to the table but instead channeled the magic  of the Fay wild through their body into these   beams of light like supercharged pixie dust but  perhaps their own Fay trickery backfired on them   at some point they tried to prank a hag and the  hag got revenge or maybe they had a friend who was   captured by a witch and in order to free them they  offered themselves up to be cursed in their loved   ones place and now they've been sent on a quest  to find a way to free themselves from The Witch's   Curse it feels like really fertile ground for a  great character concept to me and it's going to   get even better anyways as for starting abilities  I'm going to say let's go with a 15 dexterity and   take a plus one from racial there 15 wisdom plus  one 15 Constitution plus one so that we've got a   16 in our three most important abilities which is  nice as for a equipment I mean good news we're a   monk we don't really need much so go the gold  buyer route and then just save your money get   the basic necessities right as a monk one though  we get a couple features unarmored defense tells   us that so long as we are unarmored and unshielded  and I'm not planning on using armor or shield for   this build especially since fairies can't fly if  they're wearing medium or heavy armor anyways in   that case our Armor class equals our dexterity  modifier plus our wisdom modifier plus 10 which   is nice it'll get us a 16 for now it's decent and  then we get the martial arts feature which tells   us also that if we're unarmored and unshielded we  can do a number of things use dexterity instead   of strength and use a D4 for damage for our  unarmed strikes and that D4 scales up with more   monk levels and also when we take the attack  action we can make an unarmed strike with our   bonus action we're not really planning on doing  any of those things unless we have to but having   the option to do them will be nice when we're in  melee right and maybe let me say this here here   if you can't or don't want to go with a flying  race I'd strongly consider wearing armor and   a shield on this character the nice thing about  Sun Souls maybe the only nice thing honestly is   that they can basically do unarmed strike damage  from range without needing to make unarmed strikes   right thus when making those ranged attacks  they don't really need to worry about these   martial arts abilities but can still largely do  the same damage letting you have your armor and   shield cake and eat it too damage wise right in  that case then maybe instead of going hag I might   go custom lineage for a free feet taking a half  feet so that you can start with an 18 dexterity   and then I think an early cleric or hex blade dip  for medium armor and shield proficiency I think I   prefer the hex blade route since that would give  us hex blades curse and the hex spell meaning we   wouldn't need to worry about being a hex bled  if we didn't want to or couldn't with a spell   slot that resets on a short rest right and monks  of course love things that reset on short rests   going hex plate of course would mean that you  need to lower your other abilities scores to get   that required 13 Charisma I'd probably sacrifice  wisdom in that case to get there since we're not   going to need it much on this build especially  if you're not using unarmored defense anyways   going this route would get us a better armor  class with the medium armor and a shield right   some warlock perks and still let us do basically  the same damage as an unarmed striking Flurry of   Blows using monk but from range once we get to  monk 3 anyways and I mean that's not nothing but   assuming that we're sticking with the fairy hag  route at level two we get key which tells us that   we now have one key Point per monk level these  reset on a short rest and Empower monk abilities   and features at this level we can do three things  with our key spend a key point to take the Dodge   action as a bonus action spend a key point to  Dash or disengage as a bonus action or spend a   key point to Flurry of Blows letting us make two  unarmed strikes as a bonus action instead of one   most monks in my experience spend most of their  key points on Flurry of Blows or maybe stunning   strike later we'll probably rarely be doing so  ourselves but but don't count it out completely   we also get unarmored movement at level two which  tells us that one more time if we're unarmored and   unshielded we get an extra 10et of move speed and  yes this should affect both our walking and flying   speed as a ferry which is great we'd have 40 ft of  flying speed right now fantastic at level three we   get deflect missiles this lets us use our reaction  to reduce damage when we're hit by a ranged weapon   attack even letting us throw the missile back  if we reduce the damage to zero and we want to   spend a key point to do that H sometimes it's  a good good idea and then we get our monk sub   class our monastic tradition and of course we are  going to take Sun soul and hey since I've never   used them before let's read what Wizards of the  Coast has to say about this most illustrious of   subclasses monks of the way of the sun Soul learn  to channel their life energy into searing bolts of   light they teach that meditation can unlock the  ability to unleash the indomitable light shed   by the soul of every living creature okay so they  didn't have a lot to say I guess it's almost like   the flavor writers were just dialing this one in  like the subclass designers maybe were okay no   more slamming watsy for the subclass maybe I'll  try my best as a radiant sunso monk we get one   feature and one feature only here but yeah it is  their best feature I think radiant sunbolt this   essentially just lets us make ranged attacks equal  to our martial arts die now a few things to note   the attacks are considered ranged spell attacks  but they use our dexterity for the plus to hit   and damage is this the only thing in game that  lets us use our dexterity to make a spell attack   surely not but I can't think of any others let me  know if you can that's kind of cool but honestly   we'd be a lot better off if this were considered  a weapon attack right because that would let   us benefit from say the archery fighting style  Andor the Sharpshooter feet for example probably   wouldn't make a lot of sense sense to call it a  weapon attack since it's shooting beams of light   that do radiant damage right but anyways when we  do this we take the attack action and later when   we get extra attack we can replace one or both  of our attacks with this radiant bolt we're also   told that if we make at least one attack with  our sunbolt then we can spend a key point to   make two more radiant bolt attacks with our bonus  action thus it's numerically identical to making   an unarmed strike with our action and then using  our bonus action to Flurry of Blows right the only   real es being that their spell attacks not weapon  attacks do radiant damage instead of bludgeoning   damage and are made from up to 30 ft away and you  know what I mean again that's not nothing first   up radiant damage is very rarely resisted in 5e so  that's nice probably better yet yeah I mean making   attacks from range is tactically advantageous in  most situations it allows us to reach targets that   we sometimes wouldn't have otherwise been able to  reach and it tends to let us stay a little safer   generally speaking since most enemies in 5e are  melee combatants this is the main reason I wanted   to go with a flying race for this build being able  to hover above the battlefield staying relatively   safe from most enemies and I mean especially since  we've got deflect missiles right while being able   to Pepper our enemies with rays of light from up  above is going to make the fact that your damage   is fairly lackluster a lot less bad we're kind of  trading offensive power for defensive safety and   you know it's not a bad trade if you can't play  a race with innate flight at your table even as   a sunso monk that's fine thanks especially to  our increased move speed unless you decided to   Dawn armor I guess it should be easier for us to  kite and hit and run and still stay largely out of   Harm's Way and while those things aren't going to  show up on my damage report spreadsheets it's not   something that we should ignore or discount what  this character lacks in offensive prowess they're   partly going to make up for with their ability to  stay safe and also support as we'll get into later   making them like more of a backline skirmisher  and like backup support character than a true   Frontline striker or damage dealer right and those  kinds of characters are valuable and Powerful does   it feel like I'm trying to convince myself maybe  I am but you know what I think it's working but   before I get too excited I should probably mention  that sure you could actually do just slightly more   damage with this character by making a long sword  or other versatile d8 weapon into a monk weapon   which yes we can do if we have weapon proficiency  thanks to the dedicated weapon feature we picked   up at level two that I didn't talk about and then  just like make weapon attacks and Flurry of Blows   attacks right and that's sort of the great tragedy  of the sun Soul monk I guess that to use its most   defining subclass feature we actually kind of have  to do less damage than we otherwise could you do   more damage by just ignoring your subclass  features of course we do get the benefits of   ranged and radiant damage that we've talked about  but yeah I guess it's further worsened by the fact   that while there are magic weapons to increase our  hit chance and damage among other things and even   magic items like the Insignia of Cl Claws and the  aler claw tattoo to improve our unarmed strikes   there's not a lot of things that could increase  the hit chance and damage of our radiant bolts   I don't typically account for magic items in my  damage reports unless I'm using an artificer so   that kind of thing isn't really going to show up  in the spreadsheets here but in an actual game   it's probably going to be a pretty big Difference  Maker all right moving on level four we get an   ability score increase or feet and yeah if we're  trying to get the most damage possible here of   course we're going to want a bump dexterity  taking it to 18 which has the added benefit   of improving so many other things too right our  saves our initiative our armor class Etc we also   get slowfall here which is typically a favorite  flavor feature of mine for monks it lets us use   our reaction when we fall to reduce damage by five  times our monk level really cool when you're not a   flying creature who doesn't need to worry about  falling but level five is of course a big bump   for us as it is for so many classes in 5e since  first and foremost we get extra attack meaning   we could now if we had the key any anyways make  four radiant bolt attacks on our turn two with   our action two with our bonus action and that's  not too shabby it's further improved by the fact   that our Marshall Arts die goes up to a D6 now  it's not a huge Improvement but it's something   and then yes we also get stunning strike here of  course and while it's potentially a good feature   when it works anyways which is rare enough  admittedly thank goodness for the changes it's   getting in the new players handbook later this  year that causes it to at least do damage when   it fails I know it kind of got nerfed at the same  time but over overall I like the change anyways   it's not something that we'll likely use much  on this build since it requires us to hit with   a melee weapon attack if we want to spend the key  point to try and stun the enemy until the end of   our next turn we'll hopefully rarely be in melee  but of course sometimes despite our best efforts   enemies will get all up in our business especially  if we're not playing a flying race right and so   yeah being able to do just as much damage in melee  as we do from range with the added benefit here   of being able to potentially stun them so we can  more easily get away without taking an opportunity   attack among other things is pretty cool and if  we are flying how cool will it be to go up against   another flying opponent DM thinks they're being  all tactical and countering you you really need   to counter a sunzo monk anyways but then when  that flying enemy gets up in your business you   stun them and watch them have zero move speed and  thus plummet to the ground taking falling damage   and Landing prone so cool it's assuming they don't  have the hover ability of course which lots of   flying enemies in D and D5 do not have stunning  strike will be a nice tool to have in our tool   belt even if we don't get it out as often as other  monks but at level six with our most important   monk features and Buffs secured I think it's time  to finally start doing some multiclassing there   are a lot of potential ways to go here I think  I've talked about warlock which again I think   is even better if we're taking a different race  Andor lineage but I think cleric has some nice   Synergy as well Ranger could be good but I think  my favorite pick to pair with the sunso at least   at least one focused on single Target sustained  damage has got to be Druid so what's the story   with the character that would cause them to take  Druid levels at this point I mean for a creature   from the Fay wild who's in tune with the energy  of the universe doesn't feel like a huge stretch   to me to just take Druid levels no explanation  needed but if you feel like you need one maybe   our character has encountered someone or something  in their quest to cure themselves of their haggish   that requires them though to become more closely  attuned to the natural world and and or the Primal   forces that inherit it maybe they've completed  a part of their Quest towards healing and were   blessed as a result by a nature spirit with a  greater portion of healing energy perhaps this   healing energy is just a natural result of us  progressing along our path to Healing it might   even have an impact on your physical appearance  reducing the warts on your face or the moss-like   quality of your hair I don't know but whatever  your reasons yes we are taking Druid levels now   this means at druid one we learn druidic which  is the special coded language that Druids use   to leave messages for one another in the forest  and then we get Druid spells and I think I just   take kind of the usuals here guidance for a nice  D4 increase to Ability checks healing word for a   bonus action ranged heal good Berry for both food  utility and a super efficient heal between combat   encounters anyways the only things I'd say we  should probably consider using in combat once   in a while would be fairy fire and entangle both  require our concentration so it would mean no hex   but both can potentially give us advantage on our  attacks fairy fire just automatically if the enemy   fails their dexterity saving throw against it  and entangle by potentially restraining enemies   who fail their strength save against it I mean  arguably you should regularly use either of these   over hex since they can do more than just increase  your damage right but since we're building these   characters in a vacuum hex is going to do more  damage for us up until enemy Armor class of 18   at this level anyways if the enemy fails their  save against fairy fire or in tingle and thus   we have Advantage right because yeah at an enemy  AC 18 and above having Advantage is better for   our damage on average than the extra D6 we'd get  from hex so sure when I crunch numbers here in   a sec I'm just going to assume that we're using  one of those spells to get Advantage instead of   hex once we hit ac18 and yeah in the interest  of exploring best case scenario I'm just going   to assume that the enemy has failed their save  against it knowing full well that won't always be   the case regardless I should mention that it is  nice to have a couple of spell slots finally that   we can spend on Hex if we need or want making  the damage that we get from it feel a lot more   sustainable and so yes speaking of sustainable  damage at level six it's time for our first damage report oh in case you hadn't noticed the editing  this week is way worse because um my good friend   and editor D smashed his fingers in an accident  accident and he is unavailable this week so it's   just it's old school me just plunking along uh  in the editing room here so anyways just wanted   to kind of give you an FYI in case the editing  style had been bothering you hopefully we'll   be back to D's Superior Tactics and technique  next week combat for us is going to be pretty   straightforward we cast hex with our bonus  action and start throwing beams of light two   with our action and two with our bonus action and  a key point when our Target dies we transfer hex   with our bonus action and keep going now yes  being bonus action intensive using hex isn't   always super efficient if the target is likely to  die before you get a chance to attack them twice   right we're better off just not using it that said  we don't have unlimited key Five Points is enough   to see us through a single combat encounter most  of the time especially if we're using at least   one round in bonus action to get hex going right  so I'm going to consider this damage sustainable   but yeah the tactic works best against like big  bad that you're just going to be attacking round   after round when that is happening we'd be doing  a D6 for each sunbolt plus 1 D6 more for hex plus   four for dexterity for a total of 8 D6 plus 16  and yes as I mentioned before I'm going to assume   that from an enemy AC of 18 and higher you've got  Advantage from Fairy fire or entangle instead of   the extra D6 of damage from hex but take that with  a grain of salt cut me some slack here I'm trying   to make the numbers look as good as possible  okay so at this level against an enemy with   with a 10 Armor class then we would on average do  41 damage per round and against an enemy with a   15 AC it would be 30 DPR and that's not terrible  compared to other sustained damage builds that   I've done to date at this level that's kind of  bottom half of tier 2 upper half of tier three   better than average and all of those builds were  made for sustained damage right it kind of goes   to illustrate that the first five levels or so  of Monk actually tend to be pretty okay compared   to other classes it's the poor skill failing  after that that really hurts them more than   anything I think which is the main reason we've  started multiclass right and hey we've got some   fun utility lots of Mobility some nice Support  options all in all it feels like a pretty solid   build so far let's see if we can keep that up we  will attempt to do so by sticking with Druid for   a bit primarily for more and better spells but at  Druid 2 we get wild shape first of all which lets   us transform into a beast of one quarter challenge  rating or lower twice per short rest so long as   the Beast doesn't have a swim speed or fly speed  for now no big deal of course for those of us who   can already fly anyways and we'll mostly be using  this ability for like infiltration purposes a   great and fun and useful tool to have in our belt  we also get wild companion which lets us burn a   use of our wild shape to summon a familiar like  with the fine familiar spell the big difference   being that this familiar only lasts a number of  hours equal to half our Druid level I'll assume   that we've got a familiar out for combat and that  it's giving us advantage on our first attack every   round anyways it's not going to have a huge impact  on the numbers but I'll take every bump I can get   we also get our Druid subass here our druidic  Circle and honestly you can sort of pick your   favorite here I would love to get more damage  from spores Druid but alas the extra damage we   would get there only works on melee weapon attacks  so I think I'll take Shephard for my circle here   it gives us a little utility and support benefits  now and something cool that I'd like to have later   as we'll discuss when we get to it but yeah other  subclasses could work great here Moon Druid might   be kind of fun it would give you some additional  tankiness and I don't know why you couldn't shoot   those radiant beams out of like a bear paw  or something of course you'd want to pick an   animal that had a high Dex but anyways something  to consider but assuming that we go Shepherd for   now we get two features speech of the woods which  lets us speak silven and kind of more easily   communicate with beasts in a rudimentary fashion  and then more importantly spirit totem which lets   us once per short rest and as a bonus action  summon an incorporeal Spirit within 60 ft of   us that grants a 30ft radius aura that does some  nice things depending on which Spirit we summon   the bare Spirit grants us and our allies temporary  hit points equal to five plus our Druid level as   well as advantage on strength checks and saves  not bad unicorn Spirit primarily gives a nice   little heal to everyone in the aura when you cast  a spell to heal not bad and then the hawk Spirit   which lets us use our reaction to Grant advantage  to one attack against an enemy that's inside the   aura so now between our familiar and our hawk  totem we could potentially have advantage on   two of our four attacks regardless of whether  we've got fairy fire or entangle on the enemy   right but I mean it takes a bonus action to summon  the spirit plus our reaction to get that advantage   and if we're already using a bonus action to cast  or transfer hex yeah that feels like a steep cost   to get advantage on one attack per turn I'm sure  there will be times when it makes sense to use   but I don't think I can in good conscious just  assume that we've got advantage on two attacks   every turn now we're bonus action heavy as it  is at level eight we would be a druid three and   that means we get second level Druid spells and  there are a ton of great options here that you   are going to have to choose from pass without  Trace Spike growth lesser restoration hold   person if you're up against humanoids definitely  consider using your concentration on that let me   focus a bit on two though first up moon beam this  can be a great spell in that it has that famous   wording that allows the spell to do damage both  when a Target is moved into the area on a turn and   at the beginning of their turn my original plan  here for this build actually was to do something   very different where I was taking a dow Genie dip  and the crusher feet so I could move enemies into   moon beam with our radiant Sun bolts but yeah on  builds where it's hard to know where the enemy is   going to move on on their turn I'm just becoming  like less and less a fan of this tactic if we've   got them grappled sure if we can push them around  a lot like lots of forced movement sure but the   spell is a fairly small area of effect and even  though we can move it on our turn doing so costs   an action and like the crusher feet only allows  for 5T of force movement so it just didn't really   feel right on this build what about summon Beast  another great spell potentially that requires   concentration and summons a beast to fight for  you right at this spell level giving up our   concentration on Hex to get this Beast looks worse  on paper but again that's assuming that we're just   blasting away at the same target round after round  benefiting from that hex right and not needing to   constantly spend a bonus action to transfer it  once you get this build out of the lab and onto   the battlefield I think summon Beast is probably  going to be the way to go damage wise they have   pack tactics no not that pack tactics I'm talking  about the one that gives you Advantage if you're   a attacking an enemy standing next to an ally  and it can also be a nice little distraction for   enemies who might decide to Target it instead of  us or our friends which while it would be a little   sad if they died is actually great for our party  right anyways for the damage report I'll still   assume that we're using hex but if I were playing  this character in game I'd probably more often   be concentrating on summon Beast I think unless I  was up against a single big bad in a fight and you   know that summon Beast could actually also benefit  a little bit from our totems right at level 9 we'd   be a druid four and that means another ability  score increase or feat and I'm going to assume   that we're bumping dexterity so that we can  cap it at 20 thus benefiting our damage as much   as possible with this feat here okay time for  our level 9 damage report since last check the   increases to our damage have come in the form of  our dexterity bump and yeah that's pretty much it   uh-oh I mean I guess we do now have advantage on  one attack per turn as well thanks to our familiar   but I mean hey it wouldn't have been any better if  we had just stayed monk so don't get mad at me for   multiclassing here it will be worth it I think  in the long run and for now though these last   few levels have mostly been about increasing our  utility and support capabilities something you're   going to hear a lot of in the next little bit and  that's not nothing it just doesn't look very good   on the spreadsheet that's all so yeah against an  enemy with a 10 Armor class now we would be doing   48 damage per round and against a 16 AC it would  be 38 DPR so yeah a little bit better but not much   we're now like bottom half of tier four top half  of tier five compared to other builds that I've   done to date at this level kind of a bummer but  again we've picked up some really nice non-damage   abilities that the rest of our party is really  going to love us for okay at level 10 we would   be a druid five and this means third level Druid  spells and once again there are a ton of fantastic   options ARA of Vitality bring some really amazing  healing especially useful I think between combat   Encounters revivify of of course should always be  present in any party in case someone dies dispel   magic is great conjure animals if we're talking  the new version that comes out officially later   this year and it's survived the uh testing process  as a strong option still no I'm not going to allow   for the current 2014 version of that spell it's  an Abomination the one I think we might want to   consider using definitely for flavor if not for  like a ton more damage is summon Fay my favorite   of the summoning spells that we got from Tasha's  cauldron of everything and especially especially   for this build it lets us summon a little fairy  companion so now we get to be a small fairy with a   small fairy friend and you get to be twinsies and  it's just basically the best thing that could ever   happen in D and D ooh maybe you could flavor this  like it's a preag version of yourself that you're   Conjuring from the Multiverse or something some  kind of echo from the past or maybe like a long   lost family member who's come to join you in your  fight I don't know but regardless it's adorable   and I love it the summon Fay is great it lasts an  hour helping us preserve spell slots potentially   getting you know couple combat encounters out  of them they get to make an attack each round   without costing us any actions or bonus actions  or anything just like summon Beast and the attack   that they make is decently powerful it's 2d6 plus  6 as a third level spell best of all we get to   determine their mood when we summon them Trixie  gets to create some magical Darkness m F can try   to charm an enemy or fuming my favorite which lets  them just have advantage on their attack if they   face step first a little 30ft teleport that they  get to do each round now is summon Fay better than   hex for our concentration I mean yes but barely  we're talking a point or two of damage at most   AC's and at the lowest enemy AC's it's actually  slightly worse that will change later but for now   yeah I'm going to assume that we're using it more  because I just love the idea of twin fairies going   into combat together than because the Fantastic  damage increase we got from it but again do keep   in mind you know we're preserving our bonus action  by not having to transfer hex so both on paper and   more importantly in combat I think it's going  to be the better spell okay at level 11 I have   to go back to monk it's the rules honestly if I  were playing this character in game I would stay   with Druid we get a lot more damage wise and  frankly support-wise too from it but I can't   really call this build a sunso monk if I Just  Bounce after level five and never look back can   I we're conducting a thought experiment here so  let's see it through as a monk six then we get key   empowered strikes which tells us that our unarmed  strikes are considered magical for the purpose of   overcoming resistance to non-magical attacks right  and this would be great if we were reliably making   unarmed strikes but we're probably not at least I  hope we're not when we have to this will be nice   unarmored movement does get a bump here by 5  ft so now it's plus 50 15 ft that's great 45   ft of fly speed nothing to sneeze at but then we  get the sun Souls level six feature here as well   searing Arc strike I mentioned it briefly in the  Preamble but this basically lets us use our bonus   action and two key points to cast burning hands as  a first level spell now okay burning hands isn't   amazing but casting it as a bonus action isn't  nothing we could upcast it even by spending more   key points though the number of key points is  capped at half our Monk so we could only spend   up to three now casting it as a second level spell  meaning it would do 46 fire damage in a 15t cone   against enemies who failed their deck save against  it half if they make it so sure nothing amazing   but you know there will be times when the enemies  are positioned just right and maybe one or two of   them are low Health already so it would make sense  to finish off one or two and then maybe also chip   away at the health of one or two more or sure  maybe you're fighting a bunch of low hit point   minion likee creatures right and hey if you're  flying keep in mind that if you get 15 ft in the   air directly over the enemies you know think of  it in 3D here a 15t cone at 15 ft away cast down   onto the ground would make like a 3X3 area on the  grid potentially letting you impact you know more   enemies getting two or three in there shouldn't  be all that difficult most fights I would think   by itself this is not really a feature to build  around but at least it only takes a bonus action   and would still let us then throw out some r  bolts on our turn as well at level 12 though   back to Druid we'd be a druid 6 and that means  we get Mighty Summoner as a Shepherd Druid which   is really the main reason I wanted to go shepher  Druid this tells us that for beasts or Fay that we   summon with a spell they get two more hit points  per hit die that they have one tiny little problem   the summoned Fay and all the summon spells we get  from Tasha for that matter don't have a listed   hit die that said the latest like summon X spell  that wizard of the Coast put out summon draconic   spirit from FS Ban's treasury of dragons seems to  correct this telling us that the summoned Spirit   has a number of hit dice equal to the level of the  spell this seems pretty intuitive to me and I have   a hard time believing that there would be many  DMS out there who wouldn't allow that to be like   backwards compatible right but again talk with  your DM beforehand and if they say no your summon   Fay does not have hit dice then I would seriously  consider taking a different Druid subass but if   they say yes as I assume most would hey that's a  pretty nice to our summoned Fay also we're told   with this ability that any natural weapons that  our summoned creature has are considered magical   for overcoming resistance but you know our fake  companion is attacking with a sword and I don't   know why we couldn't equip them with a magic sword  if we had one available again discuss with your DM   at level 13 as much as I would like to get fourth  level spells in time for the level 13 damage   report no I cannot so we'd be among seven and that  means we get Stillness of mind uh the arguably   kind of weak uh ability that lets us end a  frightened or Charmed effect on ourselves with our   action the problem being that often times if we're  frightened or Charmed we don't get to decide what   to do with our action but hey we also get evasion  here which always feels pretty cool since it lets   us take zero damage on a successful dexterity  saving throw that we make to avoid damage and   only half if we fail and we should rarely fail so  that's fun but yeah dang it we are at our level 13   Dam report and since last check really all of our  increases have come in the form of utility defense   and support and not to be a broken record but  hey let's not discount those things please they   are important every party needs some utility and  some support so maybe we just need to think of   this character as like a support character first  who can also throw out some damage and we won't   feel so bad about him right does it feel like I'm  trying to convince myself maybe I am but you know   what I think it's working so yeah at this level  against enemies with a 10 Armor class we would   on average do 47 damage per round and against a  17 AC it would be 38 DPR so yeah not surprisingly   basically the same place as last time meaning that  compared to other sustained damage builds we're   now like middle of the pack tier five so very  near the bottom of all sustained damage builds   which honestly I mean it kind of surprises me that  we're just not straight last considering that we   haven't seen much increase to our damage since the  very first damage report right but we're a pretty   solid support character by now and we are finally  about to see a little damage bump too so get ready   because at level 14 we get to be a druid 7 meaning  fourth level spells and while sure polymorph wall   of fire and others are great options with a fourth  level spell slot we would get to upcast our little   Fay companion and when we cast summon Fay at  fourth level they get to make two attacks per   turn woohoo because the number of attacks that  they make is equal to half the level that the   spell is cast at rounded downo some actual damage  increase nice at level 15 we would go back to monk   we'd be a monk eight that means we get another  ability score increase or feet and I'm going to   pretend that we can just ignore our concentration  saving throws and bump wisdom to increase not only   our Armor class but also the DC of our stunning  strike and most importantly for the spreadsheet   anyways our phase hit chance but yeah of of course  you probably should take resilient Constitution   or I mean just start as a fighter one right or  maybe just play a fighter instead of a sun monk   at level 16 we would be a druid 8 and that means  we get another ability score increase our feet   so we can cap our wisdom at 20 here I mean hey  we're flying nobody's doing damage to us we have   to flect missiles we don't need to worry about  our concentration checks right I'm just going   to continue to pretend that that's true but then  finally for us at level 17 we would be a monk n   and we get unarmored movement Improvement so that  we can run up walls and across liquids on our turn   if for some reason our wings get torn off I guess  hey we also got another key Point okay at level   17 it is time for our final damage report and  since last check we've managed to get a little   damage bump thanks to our Fay companion making two  attacks per turn with a better hit chance as well   meaning they're almost doing as much damage as we  are actually maybe more if we can get them a nice   magical weapon but as always we've also picked up  some nice utility and Support options along the   way and thus against enemies with a 10 Armor class  here we would on average do 62 damage per round   and against an 18 AC it would be 50 DPR which puts  us compared to other sustained damage builds that   I've done to date kind of middle of tier five  again not surprisingly so okay let's break this   down here in some final thoughts the tier score  for the this build if you take the damage that   they do at each enemy Armor class at each of the  four damage reports and just average them all into   one big number we end up with a 36 which yes puts  them like middle of tier five surprising no one   let's discuss first off this build just oozes fun  flavor high on concept not so high on mechanical   Power depending on how you look at it I guess  I mean let's reemphasize that early on and I'm   talking the levels that most of us actually play  D and D at right this is a pretty solid build the   damage is decent up through the first five levels  and after that you get some pretty nice support   and utility features what's more our damage is  ranged and almost never resisted in fact I mean in   an undead heavy campaign it might be better than  advertised I mean it's not like every Undead or   even most Undead have radiant vulnerability at the  time of this recording I think there are like 16   official 5e creatures with radiant vulnerability  not a ton but they're out there after that point   though yeah we really suffer at least damage  wise and this is largely due to the lack of   scaling that we get on the monk in general and the  lack of scaling that the subass gets in particular   could we have gone a different route to bump our  damage a little more sure going say warlock to get   Spirit shroud would have done a little more for us  than hex with the benefit of not requiring a bonus   action to transfer every time our Target dies but  Spirit shroud does require you to be 10 ft away   in order to benefit from the bonus damage which  feel feels kind of lame if we could have gotten to   like nine levels of a full Caster I probably would  have gone that route so that we could then enjoy   the 2 d8 per hit scaling that fifth level spell  version of spirit Shad would give us but alas I   was bound to have more monk levels than anything  else so that by level 17 right I couldn't have   nine levels in a full Caster meaning that in the  end we were actually better off with summon Fay   than with Spirit shroud Plus that let us be less  mad right getting Spirit shroud would require   us to have like a 13 in Charisma or intelligence  and relying on summon Fay let me live the double   fairy fantasy and let me bring a lot more support  and utility to the party thanks to the power of   Druids and yeah I guess that's kind of the main  takeaway for me here in the end if you want to   play a sun Soul monk you either need to drop monk  like it's hot after level five maybe level six   or think of yourself as primarily a support  character who can also do some decent damage   with that Paradigm this build doesn't feel so bad  right lots of healing lots of utility great ways   to buff your allies in and out of combat and then  yeah some decent backline sustainable DPR to boot   the kind of character that most parties would love  to have along for the ride if it were me trying   to play a sun soul in game though I definitely  want to talk to my DM about ways to improve the   subass we got to get some home brew going here  now now maybe being a fairy hex blood is enough   of a buff if flying races are typically outlawed  but you know maybe you could get a magic item at   some point that would let you improve your spell  hit chance and damage or increase your dexterity   Beyond 20 or maybe those radiant sunbolt become  ranged weapon attacks maybe your spell and AOE   abilities can scale automatically with monk levels  not requiring a an expenditure of extra key points   maybe just proficiency bonus times per day or  something with that that level 11 ability still   doing half damage on a save I think that's  important I'd love to hear your ideas on how   to give some Homebrew love to the sunso but I'd  strongly encourage you to find some way to augment   it with your DM especially if you're playing into  high level and you're playing at a table with   lots of other optimizers finally I promised an  alternative build here that was focused on burst   AOE damage and this is how I would do it first  off beine to monk 11 the level 11 Sun Soul feature   ing Sunburst can do Fireball like damage but  importantly and interestingly it's not actually   a spell this means you could cast burning hands  as a bonus action and still Sunburst with your   action it would cost you a ton of key if you  wanted to max out both of them but it's not bad   like area of effect Nova damage at that level at  level 11 it would potentially be 66 for burning   hands and 8 D6 for Sunburst 14 D6 total and if you  could get three targets or more in the blast area   I mean that's 42 D6 of total damage across three  targets that feels pretty good you could only do   it once per short rest but you know when you could  do it and when you had the enemies bunched up and   things it would be pretty cool after that I would  take a twole fighter dip I think so that we could   action surge that Sunburst I mean you would spend  all 11 of your key points in one round of burst   damage there but it would be a healthy heaping of  AOE I crunched the numbers for it actually at that   point and compared to other like AOE Nova builds  at level 13 it was middle of the pack while being   almost a full monk with no Caster levels that in  and of itself is pretty cool the biggest problem   with sunburst is that like I've said it allows an  enemy Constitution save the worst save for us to   be targeting generally and most damningly I think  doesn't do half damage if the enemy makes their   saving throw that was one of the main reasons  I decided in the end not to go this route for   my Suns Soul monk build the other main reason is  that yeah as an AOE like burst damage character   it really doesn't come online until Level 11 and  most of us are ending our campaigns at that point   if not before I hate doing builds where we're  just kind of twiddling our thumbs for half our   character's career you know I mean we could  still shoot the Rays and you know even throw   out burning hands and stuff by level six but  yeah it's pretty poultry multi-target damage   definitely not bursty at all so it just kind of  felt like it didn't really have an identity as   a build until you hit Level 11 anyways from that  point level 13 in the build I'd probably go cleric   maybe light cleric feels best thematically so  that we could get Spirit Guardians for more area   of effect damage and even Fireball eventually if  we wanted though we couldn't burning hands bonus   action and then Fireball on the same turn thanks  to the prohibition against casting a spell with   our bonus action and any other spell that's not  a can trip with our action right but Fireball is   a deck save not con and still does half damage on  a save anyways I think the build has interesting   potential if I were going to play a campaign that  started at level 11 or later and maybe especially   if I could convince my DM to let the Sunburst do  half damage on a save I would love to try it out   and have fun being an AOE burst damage monk right  a really cool concept if nothing else but that's   the build for the week I hope you guys enjoyed it  I hope you don't consider it a complete and total   failure I know I don't but yeah it definitely  highlights some reasons why people think of   the sunso as the worst subass of the worst class  in 5e I still had a lot of fun making it I hope   you know that I love you thank you so much for  all that you do for me for the channel you guys   are fantastic I hope you have a great day and a  great week and if you don't please don't give up   I hope that you do good and be kind and that I see  you again very soon but until then take care bye [Music] Robin Hood and little John walking  through the forest laughing back and forth   at what the other one had to [Music] say  reminiscing this and that and having such   a good time goly what a day never ever dreaming  there was danger in the water they were drinking   they just guzzled it down never dreaming  that a schem and sheriff and his posy was   are watching them and gathering around Robin  Hood and little John W no running Robin Hood   and little John running through the forest  jumping fences dodging trees and trying to get away contemplating nothing but escape and finally  making it goly what a day o o golly what a day I've had that song stuck in my head all day  long and you know why I hope hope you know why   it's because it's because my shirt yay Dad  that is the best movie my my favorite Disney   movie I think I think is it it's got to be that or  Emperor's New Groove excuse me ringing or dinging   the notification B Well yeah if you can't play a  race with innate light uh flight I really like the   laddin I don't know Robin Williams is fantastic  in that Jasmine totally my Disney princess Crush   one of them at least it only takes a bonus action  and what that was weird Robin Hood and little John   running through the forest laughing back and  forth oh no that's walking I got to start that over do outtakes have outtakes probably not Robin   Hood and Little John walking  through the forest laughing [Laughter] fat oh this is the worst intentional  outtakes real ever let's try that again

Channel: d4: D&D Deep Dive

Views: 35,414

Keywords: dnd, D&D, dungeons & dragons, monk, sun soul, damage, dpr, weakest, worst, viable, druid, support, guide, how to, tips, tricks, character, creation, build, min max, optimize

Id: DlZgdX6-YsE

Length: 57min 12sec (3432 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 23 2024